Malati dasi

From Wikepedia: In Hinduism, the Gandharvas (Sanskrit: गंधर्व, gandharva) are male nature spirits, husbands of the Apsaras. Some are part animal, usually a bird or horse. They have superb musical skills. They guarded the Soma and made beautiful music for the gods in their palaces. A connection between their name and that of the Greek centaurs was proposed in the 19th century, but has met with strong opposition from some Indo-Europeanists.<SUP class="noprint Template-Fact">[citation needed]</SUP> In Hindu theology, Gandharvas act as messengers between the gods and humans In Buddhism: A Gandharva (Sanskrit) or Gandhabba (Pāli) is one of the lowest-ranking devas in Buddhist theology. They are classed among the Cāturmahārājikakāyika devas, and are subject to the Great King Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Guardian of the East. Beings are reborn among the Gandharvas as a consequence of having practiced the most basic form of ethics (Janavasabha-sutta, DN.18). It was considered embarrassing for a monk to be born in no better birth than that of a gandharva. Gandharvas can fly through the air, and are known for their skill as musicians. They are connected with trees and flowers, and are described as dwelling in the scents of bark, sap, and blossom. They are among the beings of the wilderness that might disturb a monk meditating alone. The terms gandharva and yakṣa are sometimes used for the same person; yakṣa in these cases is the more general term, including a variety of lower deities

I respect your opinion. But to me sometimes truth hurts but I have to speak what I think truth is.

Dark warrior: A Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu. PERIOD. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <FONT color=blue>In Gaudiya Vaishnavas case, Krishna. . Bija said:. . As a small child (between 5 and 8) I used to feel bliss in church and swoon and feel much love for God. My brother used to hit me in church, 'stop swooning, you are embarrassing', he would say. . As that young innocence was lost I also took on board the sectarian thinking of my family, until about the age of 16 to 20. Then I left and travelled looking for God due to great disatisfaction with my culture, materialism, its ideals etc. . I found Hare Krsna's over seas and they made me dance one morning in front of Tulasi Devi. As we chanted the names of God and walked around tulasi I entered a trance, and the room filled with golden light. The saffron monks all turned glowing white in pristine robes. And I saw myself and how sinful I had been. Tears flowed from my eyes. I was too young to know what all this meant. . That was 16 years ago. Now I long for love and long for Krsna, to feel the hairs stand on end and tears flow, when I see his form or hear his name, or think of his great love for all. . I am a mleccha. At one point my government made me work in an abattoirs, killing 3000 animals including cows per day. I have not worked since. . But Bhakti devi does not discriminate her lavish gifts, even a christian can feel bhava, or at least a glimpse. . <!-- / message --><!-- sig --><FONT] <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Bija Like you, I was a catholic. I was born into a catholic family. I went to a catholic school. Later was encouraged by my friends to check out the christain protestant faith. <o:p></o:p> After venturing into other paths I found Gaudiya Vaishnavism. As someone who once had a deep involvement in Christianity, I found Chritianity a very shallow religion and as pointed out somewhere on this thread lacks even the basic knowledge about God. I specifically found annoying how “ give us our daily bread” turns into a materialistic preoccupation among Christian followers. Of course that can’t be helped. There is no knowledge in that faith of a potential sweet relationship with <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ /><st1:place><font color=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>. I also don’t agree with their concept of redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ. Like one sins and gets absolved through the crucifixion of Jesus. I find that abbhorent. And this became part of its tradition. Like, they partake of the body of Christ in the form of piece of bread during communion.<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>At present, what I am praying for is the mercy by which I can develop nistha.<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> <FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3> </st1:place>

Radhe Radhe I will get back to this thread in due course. Haven't read the posts yet. I work full time and have many other responsibilities. Time unfortunately is of short supply to me. Have to cook dinner now and then finish my japa and my gayatri. Thanks , Dark Warrior for your very intelligent comments. We need poeple like you. Radhe Radhe

CBrahma: I'm not sure where you got the idea that 'believing' in Krsna was going to send you to hell, from a Christian teaching. Jesus teaching was to worship the Father (Krsna) in Spirit and in Truth. This is a completely transcendantal understanding that endorses no specific religious sect. Ok, the below are for the Hare Christnas: From Exodus, No. 4 of the TEN Commandments of GOD Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above In Deutoronomy: NO. 8 of the TEN Commandments of God: You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. So, puja to the Archana vigraha of the Lord will send me to hell? Theist and CBrahma, I assert that Christianity is not compatible with (Gaudiya) Vaishnavism. I think it was St Paul who chastised the early Christians who prayed on the streets. However, Sankirtan in every streets and villages is what the movement of Lord Chaitanya is all about. Also, the emphasis of Jesus' prayer as below, is not exactly how Gvism approach spirituality: 1. Our father who art in heaven 2. 2. hollowed be thy name thy kingdom come, thy wil be done on earth as it is in heaven. 3 Give us this day our daily bread 4. And forgive us our trespasses as 5. we forgive those who trespassed against us 6 . And lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil Amen The ones in red according to the Gita is a lower form of spirituality. Also, eating meat is alright in Christianity. Krishna however does not accept such kind of offering. What's next Theist? Jesus Christ is the illegitimate son of Radha and Krishna ! Stop your crusade. That is why you get abused by some forummers here, for your lack of education.

Jhulana Lila – Swing Pastimes (rAgiNI kAmoda - tAla chuTa daza kusi) nava ghana kAnana zohana kuJja; vikasita kusuma madhukara guJja nava nava pallave zobhita DAla; sAri zuka pika gAoye rasAla tahi boli aparUpa ratana hindola; tA’pora baiThalo yugala kizora vraja ramaNI-gaNa deota jhakora; gIrata jAni dhani korotahi kora koto koto upajala rasa parasaGga; govinda dAsa tahi dekhoto raGga “In the new deep forest is a beautiful kunja where the flowers blossom and the bees buzz. On the fresh leaves on the beautiful branches the female Sari-parrots and the male Suka parrots sing delicious songs. Here is a wonderful jewelled swing, on which the Yugala Kisora is seated. The Vraja-gopis give a push, and Radha takes shelter of Krsna’s lap, afraid that She will fall. How many rasika talks are being held? Govinda dasa blissfully beholds it.”

CBrahma: He has dodged many of the objections with respect to the literal understanding of the Vedic cosmology. The earth being flat, being on the back of a turtle, the four elephants, all of these subtle representations of gross animals and mundane objects like chariots. Can someone please give me the references for these stories, I'd like have a look at them. Thanks

Well, you can see that I adviced him to be civil. But you can't deny that he has explained his position in a more exhaustive and very specific way.

Dark Warrior said: EDIT: By the way, it would be foolish to say that Vedanta is against Science. The Vedic concept of time and space is extremely advanced, and puts forward ideas such as String Theory, which has only recently been suggested by mordern science. The whole Pralaya, Kalpa and other such things are in accordance with science. The cyclical nature of time is alson outlined in the Vedic Scriptures. The Bhagavatam has described how an embryo develops into a baby. Some scholars also point out that ideas of cloning have also been hinted by this text. In Sayana's commentary on the Rig Veda, he accurately mentions the speed of light to be 186,000 miles per second. Therfore, our texts are concordant with science. It is all a matter of reinterpretation. You have my support Dark Warrior. I also found Vaishnavism in my case Gaudiya, superior in many respects. I can appreciate that you have a deeper understanding of the Vedas than most of us here. But most importantly you have the faith. The Vedas or even the bhagavatam express some ideas that are so advanced. In 2003, I read an article about the theory pf multiverses being discussed by a top physicist in Australia. And you know what immediately came to my mind? The illustration of MahaVishanu lying in the causal ocean with the multple universes as the background. Actually, the illustration in the article has an uncanny resemblance to the ISKCON illustration we are all very familiar with. Also, the concept of cyclical time which can be found in the Vedas or Bhagavatam is a subject worth discussing by physicists and many other theories have spawned from it. If the vedas is not a part of God's shakti, where does its knowledge come from? And if this is indeed part of God's shakti then it must be real in some dimension. Of course, there are many things there that on our level are difficult to imagine, let alone understand. Let's think for a second, has anyone here in this forum ever imagined in his/her wildest dream that this phenomenon known as the internet will ever come about? However, my advice to you Dark Warrior is to keep your cool and show some ettiquette. We are winning the debate anyway. Radhe Radhe

This is going to be my last post in this embarassing turn of dicussions here. LOB, It DOES NOT BOTHER me what people think of me! I am who I am! Just backtrack on this thread and you will see it was you who started about about this mental measurement stuff, so what can you expect from dark warrior. I can't believe that a very intelligent person like you would have a collection of such expletives. Sorry Hare Krishna

Radhe Radhe<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> I agree with Dark warrior. With regards to the Vedas I don't trust scholars especially western scholars. The Vedas should be translated and commented upon with a blend of literal accurancy, cultural and religious insight. Otherwise it's just a barren literature.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And what's wrong with interpolation? We can make reasonable conclusions from that method. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> About Vaishnavism syncretic approach, if a "personal God" is real, then there must be a thread that should run across the spectrum of the Vedas, isn’t it?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Lastly, Im annoyed at how this discussions have gone to the level of childish name calling. LOB, I think it was you who started to behave appallingly. Please don't go that low! <o:p></o:p> Loverofthe bhagavat, you will sound you lost in the debate if you parade your IQ to make it appear that you are more superior than Dark Warrior. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> btw, my sons and my ex-husband are Mensa members but we don’t ram their IQs into anyone’s faces. Bija, depends on what test was used on you, eg. Stannford Binett and another one w/c I can't remember at the moment, 100 or110 is average.

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Malati dasi Theist in answer to Suchandra: Thanks for the permission slip. At least I am honest and in touch with my areas of doubt and disagreement. I position I prefer to being a parrot. Again I need to remind you I have never said I am a Vaisnava I leave that posturing to others. Malati : To be a parrot is a good thing so long as you abide by this: Shastra, Guru and Sadhu. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> The problem is a parrot does not understand what it is saying. Becoming a parrot or an echo is not self realization. Malati dasi: How can you be sure that what you are hearing is God's voice and not your ego? You heard of the saying 3 heads are better than one, right? <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>I believe that to think that paramatma is talking to us or directing us all the time is deception of the highest order. The worst kind is self-deception </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> I would suggest rereading the Bhagavad-gita. There you will learn that Supersoul is directing the wanderings of ALL conditioned souls. Malati dasi: Of course what you quoted is a very nice verse, still the Gita does not understate the importance of siksha. All religious faiths do not negate the importance of siksha, whether its the Catholic faith, Muslim, even Buddhism has their masters. But most especially I will mention Gvism. Aside from the sastras, the foundational acharyas showed that siksha is part and parcel of the progressive development of a person endevouring for spiritual perfection. Doesn't the BHagavad Gita say : Learn the truth by approaching the a spiritual master . Learn from him submissively and render service unto him. The realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth. Whether you believe that the Guru should be physically present or can be present through his writings etc, you can't deny that YOUR understanding alone, ok, I use the realization if you like , is not the absolute benchmark by which you can know the truth. You think it will hurt someone if he/she exchanges realizations with an advanced devotee? I have to remind you that humility is also needed to cleanse our hearts of the dust that can block the clear appearance of paramatma. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy. Bg 18.61 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Not to hear Supersoul is the worst kind of self-deception. Malati dasi: Well, who is Arjuna hearing from? From his Guru and friend right? Without Krishna He will not be even in a position to understand that the Lord is in his heart. The worst kind of deception is to think that you are hearing the soupersoul and any sisya from anyone is not necessary. Such arrogance !!

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Malati dasi Theist said: From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak? Malati : The difference is the degree of surrender. In the Gita, Lord Krishna says to the effect that as much as you surrender to me that much I give you the intimate knowledge by which you can come to me. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Theist said: Yes but that is an individual consideration and not one based on religious or non-religious affiliation. Krsna did not tell Arjuna to join any one particular religion, He told him to abandon them all. Malati dasi: So you think surrender to God is sectarianism , yeah? Maybe you need to learn the real meaning of surrender. Go get a real spiritual life and get some sadhu sanga. Sectarianism is what you are showing in this forum. Debating against people who believe that they need a Guru or sadhu sanga to progress in the spiritual path that they choose to follow.

Theist : Most Christians, Hindus and Muslims think God only hears their prayers or at least gives more weight to their prayers over the other groups. Prabhupada's teachings are transcendental to this type infantile thought. Malati: Being a Vaishnava, SP also expounds the idea that Krishna's Rasa lila is the most intimate knowledge about God given to the most surrrendered devotee through revelations in the shastras. As you very well know that knowledge is not available in any revealed scriptures except through Krishna's line. Just my practical thoughts, the whole concept of the practices of Gvism hopes to give rise to nistha or being fixed on one's devotional path which by the mercy of a guru will lead us to the surpreme goal which is prema. Of course, respect for others, their opinions, preferences and choices are not only part of Vaishanava etiquette but also common sense if we want to live in an orderly world. Moreover, they are protected by human rights legislation especially in democratice countries. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Theist in answer to Suchandra: Thanks for the permission slip. At least I am honest and in touch with my areas of doubt and disagreement. I position I prefer to being a parrot. Again I need to remind you I have never said I am a Vaisnava I leave that posturing to others. Malati : To be a parrot is a good thing so long as you abide by this: Shastra, Guru and Sadhu. I believe that to think that paramatma is talking to us or directing us all the time is deception of the highest order. The worst kind is self-deception.

Theist said: From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak? Malati : The difference is the degree of surrender. In the Gita, Lord Krishna says to the effect that as much as you surrender to me that much I give you the intimate knowledge by which you can come to me.

Radhe Radhe I understand your apprehension. I think it also depends on the line you are following. I am with Advaita acharya parivar. I have a simple but demanding life. I have a humble home with a garden, shopping to be done 2 times/week, 2 kids (one in Univ), I work full time, I have my own blog, despite of all these, I can still do my recommended sadhana everyday without fail, cook for my deities, and roam the net and from time to time throw in my 2 cents worth. Still sometimes I have time to look at the pitch black sky ornamented only by the stars and think "are they the same stars Radha_Krishna see?". Life for me sometimes is still sweet! My point is we have to set up priorities in our lives, drop things that are of no value (anarthas) to our spiritual life like watching TV! To be honest, when I was following the line of ISKCON where we had Blanket Purchase Order of 16 rounds quota@day, I was becoming frustrated and getting diverted from the goal of japa chanting. Now, you can see the side effect of that Blanket P.O. -- ISKCON devotees doing their japa while driving. I sometime think that most of us set aside a time to be alone with our partners, why can't we do that with our Radha-Krishna? Hari Bhakti Vilasa says minimum 4 rounds is reasonable. I think the point there is quality than quantity. With regards to offering bhoga, in our line our mantra is not like reciting a treatise. But of course we have the disksha mantra too to say. Im at the point of my life where sadhana for me is relishable because it's not forced! Please don't give up! Look for one that find resonance in our life.

Full nama sankirtan is aiming the mind at relishing the sweetness of Sri Krishna's names and thus chanting the name with full attention, great love and affection. This means one should not chant simply to complete a compulsory daily number of rounds like a machine, without fixing one's mind. In his Krama Sandarbha commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.20, Sri Jiva Goswami writes: One can chant the Lord's names in 2 ways: kevala(mere chanting) and sneha samyukta (with love). An offenceless person who merely chants will attain the abode of the Lord only (salokya), but one who chants with love will be able to reside near the Lord (samipya). Sri Krishna told the gopis when they came to Kuruksetra (Bhag. 10.82.45) : Oh beautiful girls! The living beings attain amrta (immortality or nectar of love) by being devoted to Me, and fortunately the love you feel for me has forcibly attracted Me to you!" These words of the Lord proclaim that love is the best way to attract Him. Commentary on Sri Sri Siksastakam from the book Sri Sri Siksastakam of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu by a most venerable rasika devotee Srila Ananta das Babaji Maharaj of Radha kunda. wwww.krishnachaitanya.com

Radhe Radhe Watching all these unfold, I thought I was watching Melbourne Comedy Week, until I realized we were talking serious business here. The problem with you LOB is that you never cited any verse or reference to buttress your position. Ok, show me where I can buy the Bhagavad Gita that you said was imperative read so I can cogitate:deal: over truth. And I'm serious, ok

Pankaja said: whts diff between devotee friends and normal. You mean difference between devotee friends and non-devotee friends? It's supposed to be about sat sanga, isn't it? If you want to have devotee friends, find it in the real world not in cyberspace like in this forum. As you can see most people here keep their identities a closely guarded secret. I have a few explanations for it but it wil not do me any good if I list them here.. In our small cyberspace community (see below) we know the identity of each other more or less. For starters, we use our real civil and/or initiated names. Kind regards

Radhe Radhe I will bump this thread up to the top! This is indeed a very interesting discussions. I have actually asked about this verse in the thread about devas and kali temple worship. I'm inclined to agree with Shakti fan's post from Srila Narayan Maharaj's lecture that saranagati is the doorway to bhakti, especially this: This teaching gives guidance to the people in general. In saranagati there is no conception of svarupa anubandhi – the eternal relationship between the svarupa of the soul and the svarupa of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna says in this verse, “Mah sucah – don’t be afraid.” The surrender in this verse is inspired by fear, not by a loving relationship. Sounds classical Gvism to me. But of course my focus is my family's understanding of this topic, so I will have to get my godbrother Advaita das take on this. Unfortunately (or fortunately to some) he doesn't participate in this forum ! Kind regards:namaskar:

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Malati dasi Theist said: We have to judge which is best on the basis of what they have found. Only that will help us in our search. Do you judge the truth of love on an abusive marriage? Why judge truth based on other people's application of "truth"? Where does that put our individual realization, then? Radhe Radhe Radhe </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Not on other peoples application of the truth but of the teachings themselves. What I am saying is this. We can judge the value of Buddhism by understanding that in Buddhism one can find a sense of mindfullness and detachment as well as compassion for other living beings. What we cannot find in Buddhism is information on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Given this how can any student of Vaisnavism talk of Buddhism as being on par with Krsna consciousness? If you yourself don't do this then on what basis have you chosen Vaisnavism over Buddism or worship of Kali? Is Vaisnavism better or not? What do you say? Radhe Radhe Theist, Your earlier statement is misleading; when you used the word "they" in your sentence. Let put it this way the truth of the teachings can stand on its own. Ok then, I agree with you about buddhism, that our ontology- the explanation of the nature of being in our GV system- is superior than buddhism. Of course before we can come to that conclusion we should know where they stand on things. However we believe how we get that seed for the search for truth, eg by bija from many past lives, or by causeless mercy as a self manifesting aspect of our swarup shakti, etc, this is a big topic. To loverofbhagavat and Ganesh and company, if you can please show me a more accurate translation of this verse from the Bhagavad Gita: Give up all varieties of religion and surrender unto me! I feel that it pertains to a certain "form" right? Also, I pasted quotes from the Gita about the topic. You can read demigod the way you think it should be read. Still... Bhagavad Gita as it is Chap 7. verse 20: Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto the demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own nature. 21 I am in everyone’s heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity. 22 Endowned with such a faith , he endeavours to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone. 23 Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planet of the demigods, but MY devotees ultimately reach MY supreme planet. 24 Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I , the Supreme Personality of godhead , Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme Below is an excerpt of a lecture by a most venerable Babaji of Radha Kunda. Now over here we have a question. ‘Lord Krishna, He contains all the devatas within Himself, so when we worship some deva, then ultimately that worship is going to Him.He is giving some mercy (in that he gives the fruits even when the demigods are worshiped), he might as well give some mercy (since he's the one giving the result anyway), couldn't he, and also liberate us from material bondage (since that's what he'd do if we worshiped him directly). Why don’t we only do some kind of Devi-puja then? (As that ought to accomplish the task just as well.) <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_4027--><!-- THE POST -->This has been explained in Srimad Bhagavatam. In the Bhagavatam it is mentioned that a river, flowing from a hill eventually mixes into the ocean. When we worship demigods it is a similar situation, our worship ultimately flows toward Sri Krishna. But, the hill from which the river emerges from never reaches the ocean, only the water from the river meets the ocean. Likewise, when worshiping the demigods, our offering eventually arrives at Sri Krishna, but we the worshiper do not. Hence it is effective to worship directly the Supreme Personality Sri Bhagavan. Also loverofbhagavat, your sentences are very well crafted as they are, please don't misfigure it by adding the superfluous sniggers !!! Kind regards Malati dasi <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Theist said: We have to judge which is best on the basis of what they have found. Only that will help us in our search. Do you judge the truth of love on an abusive marriage? Why judge truth based on other people's application of "truth"? Where does that put our individual realization, then? Radhe Radhe Radhe

Radhe Radhe Loveofthebhagavat said: Some ignoramuses not having a clue as to how to invoke the Devi cannot become a valid reason for rejecting Maa-upasana, anymore than the existence of paedophilic ISKCON gurus render Gaudiya Vaishnavism useless. LoveroftheBhagavat Obviously, Theist did not get the point !

Radhe Radhe LoveroftheBhagavat I emphasized the number in relation to Navadwip's size or land area. Its relatively small compared to Vrindavan. Thanks if you can do that. Pranams:namaskar: