Malati dasi

Babhru: Hmmm . . . nice quotation, Suchandraji. Thanks. May every post in every thread serve to shed light on the topic under discussion. Good on you Babhrudasji! To Suchandra I hope you see my point. I'll borow the words of Gandhi because he said it better than me. "Be the change you want to see in the world." Kind regards, anyway Pranams

Radhe Radhe I agree with Kulapavana. I would expect more from a PHD student. His article was like something lifted from one of the first ISKCON's publications called ""Healthy, Wealthy and Wise" recipe book. Which undoubtedtly has very nice recipes and nice insights about the benefits of vegetarianism. But that was like almost 40 years ago and the world of economics has changed in more ways than one. I appreciate your comments Kula and also Srila prabhupad's talk about fiat money etc, but the world of economics now is so much more complex that just about printing money or about fiscal policy. From the papers, looks like the US is like heading for recession or something in that form. I have been reading the papers and it's just is not that simple. I will leave that to economists and leaders. The problem with us is that we think we are the saviours of the world when we are very limited. I have a very simple life but I still can not cope with my sadhana!! I have to squeeze in my sadhan in my 24 hours. Of course if we are in that position where we can effect change then do so. Until then I'll try to make my small world become better. With that I mean my family, my children to become good citizens, my garden, my relation with people; being relatively honest, being accepting and not fanatics. We have to chill out a bit!

Radhe Radhe If Templenet is the land of temples in cyberspace, Navadwip, is the land of temples. It has 300 plus temples. Just a tidbit of info from me. btw, I did look at the site, how come in the section "temples of bengal" not a single temple in navadwip is mentioned. Just curious

Radhe Radhe Lover of the Bhagavat: Sorry Induji, but this is a mistaken conception that is prevalent in the Gaudiya school. If you get the chance to go to Ayodhya, you will see that many sadhus of the Ramananda lineage (a branch of the Sri sampradaya) perform sadhana for Lord Ramachandra in the same rasika manner that you are familiar with, and they have extensive poems and literatures that detail the methodologies that they employ. Likewise, there are people who worship Lord Shiva with amorous feelings in order to obtain Him as their husband. However, in order to have this knowledge, one should refrain from studying Indic dharma with ideologically tainted glasses, and develop a more universal and ecumenical approach to religion. Hey, Loverof the bhagavat, that maybe so, that the lineages you mentioned practice also in the the same mood of madhura, but does it say anywhere in any sastras, like in Canto 10 of Srimad Bhagavatam where Krishna's rasa lila are described where he enjoys such madhura interactions with His "devotees, that Lord Ramachandra ör Shiva perform rasa lila like Krishna, with any of their "devotees"? I'm not so well read in Indic literature so I would like to know. Kind regards

Radhe Radhe You are definitely correct. The context in which the word was used in the letter pointed to the meaning you gave. Thanks a lot for you time, soto bon. I hope that is right!

Radhe Radhe I will check out your blog. It should be interesting, I 'm sure. Though I might not agree with you on certain points, like my practice of mental sadhana. I actually can't understand Madhava's point eg: <i>An obvious problem arises if people don't possess the adequate latent mental formations on which to build these god-redirected feelings</i> Of course I don't know what instructions he got from his line. But my siksa's intructions were both about activity on the practical level and about philosophical instructions that will help me have a good grounding as I start on the path of "real" spiritual evolution.

Radhe Radhe I will paste a larger image here when I'm able to,

And btw, judging from your 13,000 + posts, I'm sure you will not leave this thread unless you think you won the debate! Goes to show your reasons for cyber sanga ! Radhe Radhe:pray:

Theist: This is a standard meat eatter argument. You are responsible for your own actions. Maybe you would like to take birth as a dairy cow and see how it feels from their perspective. And so what is our standard answer? That though eating plants also involve killing it is acceptable because, quoting from the Gita, Krishna accepts that kind of foodstuff. So are we also going to argue that because Krishna likes butter, yoghurt, milk and ghee we are absolved from the result of inflicting suffering to the cows if we offer them to Him? Note that up to the point of extracting milk the cow is not being killed. If you have been a lactating mother you know that it is such a relief from pain if the painful breast swollen with milk is pumped of its milk. I suppose that applies to cows too. Living in this world suffering and causing suffering is inevitable. Honey from bees is a product of enslavement by human. They get hurt and suffer in the process too. You being very attached to the internet, please check your computer for parts that may contain traces of gelatine. They come from dead cows you know. It's even worst. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Radhe Radhe It is a fact that Bhaktivedanta Swami and some Indian Gurus had taken commercial milk. So does it mean, Theist, that you are a more "evolved" soul than them?

Radhe Radhe Though I mostly use soy milk, I, from time to time, use commercial milk for baking. So I'm also guilty of this crime of violence to cows. But if you look at the big picture, eating only plants also means killing. I agree with GHari. These cows will eventually meet their violent end, whether we buy their milk or not. One GM Guru said that the only way to liberate these poor cows in commercial cow farms is to offer their milk to Radha_Krishna.

Radhe Radhe I just received an email from a Bengali devotee and there was a word there like this: Kalaynia What's its literal translation? Or its meaning in english? Thanks:namaskar:

I take note of this: CONCLUSIONS AND HYPOTHESES Excluding compulsivity, Hare Krishna personality traits appear to be invariant with degree of acculturation, except as noted, and remain within the normal range. Yet, compulsivity may be prerequisite for sustaining membership rather than being acquired through some process of the movement over time. This is consistent with the finding that acculturation is not associated with length of time in the movement. For the cross-section studied, no evidence was found that adverse personality traits are associated with greater acculturation into the movement. Mental health was not associated with differences in acculturation, except that highly acculturated Hare Krishna men (and women to a lesser extent) reported significantly greater well-being than did their general population norms or lesser acculturated peers (a positivity effect). Also, scores of the lesser acculturated group did not differ significantly from those of MHI norm group, except on a few of the MHI subscales where they were significantly lower. The association of higher acculturation with greater mental health does not necessarily indicate that increased religiosity benefits mental health, or vice versa. It may simply be that those joining the movement with greater mental health are emotionally more stable, physically healthier, and function better interpersonally to achieve their goal of intense religio-cultural practice, while those experiencing psychological difficulties are less able to do so and thus remain closer to their original culture. This hypothesis would be consistent with the positivity effects for Hare Krishnas compared on acculturation, and may also help explain the positivity effect relative to the MHI general population. Those few who elect to leave the general population and their families to seek deep immersion into the unfamiliar lifestyle of a controversial minority undergo considerable acculturative stress and may require the more positive emotional qualities associated with greater mental health to surmount this difficult transition and to succeed in this minority lifestyle. Hence, those more successful at acculturating may have originated from that segment of the general population with greater mental health, so that their scores may be significantly higher than those of the MHI general population. Alternatively or concurrently, a feedback process may occur. Those with greater mental health may be able to fulfill better the tenets of their religion, thereby receiving approval from authorities, peers, and self. This may increase their feelings of self-worth and lead to still greater contrast in relative mental health. Another mechanism might be an increased acculturation into religion as a therapeutic strategy that helps resolve emotional difficulties and thereby enhances mental health. Curative features may include immersion into a family or organizational social structure, rewards of mastery, narcissistic mirroring, and authorities as ego ideals and parental surrogates. The features of social involvement that usually serve mental health are not restricted to churches and religious settings and may occur in such settings as the home, workplace, or school. On this basis, significant differences in mental health would not be expected between those who succeed in one setting as opposed to another. This would be consistent with the literature's conclusion that religiosity and mental health are not associated, since those who do not seem to be as religious would have other settings in which to foster sound mental health. Another explanation for the reported lack of association between religiosity and mental health is that norms such as those used in the MHI are based on populations whose religiosity is already comparable to that of those being tested. This would be consistent with the fact that religiosity measures are generally non-specific for religion. However, the acculturation index, which is specific for the Hare Krishnas, adds substantial scope to the usual dimensions of non-specific religiosity. These increases in the dimensions of religiosity may have influenced the finding that greater degrees of acculturation were significantly associated with increased subjective well-being. Non-specific measures may not have produced the same result. In sum, the effects of acculturation or religiosity on the mental health and personality of the Hare Krishnas studied appear in most ways comparable to those reported for persons involved in the more traditional religions: Associations are minimal or nil, except that significantly greater subjective well-beingis associated with greater acculturation. Malati: The jury is still out! The study does not show a direct correlation that acculturation in the Hare Krishna makes one "happy". I believe there is still room for improvement within the devotee communities in the WEST for a more balanced approach to social interactions within devotees.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> However, I take exception to this from the same study: The compulsive personality trait of the Hare Krishnas as a group is invariant with acculturation for females, but differs for males with different degrees of acculturation (12.3% variance). One hypothesis for this U-shaped relationship is that highly compulsive males may choose to direct their energies into either spiritual or secular domains, which would either increase or decrease their acculturation, respectively. Males with the lowest drive energies would tend to be relatively low achievers in both secular and spiritual domains. Their AIs would not be as high as that of those whose greater compulsive energy is utilized in religious tasks, but would be higher than that of the secularly directed who tend to devote the least time to religion; they would thus fall in the mid-range of AI values. The constancy of female compulsivity with acculturation is hypothesized to arise from their primary lack of choice to enter the secular domain, since the movement's tenets require them to assume the traditional role of homemaker, involving them with internal or temple activities rather than with outside commerce and work. This is congruent with prior findings that the Hare Krishna females have CPS personality traits similar to those of traditional American females of the 1960s, with the notable exceptions of compulsivity and trust (Weiss and Comrey 1987b). <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Malati: I wonder what fosters this kind of environment? I lived in an ISKCON ashram in 1982 and this is one of the reasons I left, among other most important reasons , which is too long to mention here.</o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p>Radhe Radhe</o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Radhe Radhe I have not been on this site for a few months until a few days ago. This morning, noticing the absence of his posts, I was thinking where Guruvani was. I wish him all the best in his devotional practices whichever sanga he takes shelter of.

Radhe Radhe This is what my guru, Nikunja Gopal Goswami the 13th generation direct descendant of Advaita Acharya, or Sri Sadhu Baba (as he preferred to be called) had to say about the topic. Taken from his biography here: http://home.planet.nl/~dijk7364/babajivan.pdf pages 15-16 Hypocrisy Niranjan Prasäd Däs: “One disciple asked Bäbä: “What is a hypocrite?” Bäbä replied: “Withdrawing the hands, feet and other active senses and dressing oneself as a renunciant is allright, but if one ponders on sense enjoyment for 23 out of 24 hours then one is a hypocrite. One is not on the shore of a sense enjoyer and also not on the shore of the renunciant – one drowns then. Leave one shore and come to the other – make a choice.” Then he quoted: karmendriyäni samyamya ya äste manasä smaran indriyärthan vimüåhätmä mithyäcäraù sa ucyate “One who controls the active senses, but whose mind remembers the sense objects, and is bewildered by them, is called a hypocrite.” (Bhagavad Gétä 3.6) Those who say one thing and do another, who pretend to be pure but are actually absorbed in sense objects have surely practised in mäyä’s marketplace. Many people falsely dress like renunciants and make a big public show of tears and ecstasy. They will burn in hell forever. Choose which side you want to be on – mäyä’s family or Kåñëa’s family. Why should you leave a good position to sit on an äsana and renounce like a monkey or a cat? A cat is pretending to be peacefully sitting around but when he gets his opportunity and nobody watches, he will jump and attack. A monkey lives in the trees and looks simple, but that is only external. His inner feelings are not at all renounced. Why stand with your feet in two worlds? You will pollute this pure religious tradition by falsely dressing like a renunciant. You know why I became a forest-dweller? Because there are no hypocrites here in the woods. Even a thief here will not speak lies. What will you gain by just dressing like a bhakta just to enjoy some facilities? Will you make your birth successful with self deception? You have now taken human birth, make your choice! Go to Kåñëa, fix Your mind on Him, He is so kind! When a child cries the mother is obliged to come and give him her milk. The Lord is like a cow that comes running like mad after her calf when it runs away. Why worry? Just call out to Him! You have now taken a human birth, now you can attain God. That’s why you got the human birth anyway. As a human being you should call out to God. There are millions of species of life, but the human species is the best – why are you wasting this precious life then? You think it will come again?”

Radhe Radhe Siva ratri is tomorrow, Thursday, March 6 in Australia. I thought that maybe we can imbibe the spirit of Mahaprabhu's prayers on this special occasion Sri Sivastakam (Eight prayers glorifying Lord Siva, spoken by Sriman Mahaprabhu.Recorded in Murari Gupta's "Sri Caitanya Carita Mahakavya") 1) namo namaste tri-daçeçvaräya bhütädi näthäya mådäya nityam gaìgä-taraìgotthita-bäla-candracüòäya gauré-nayanotsaväya "I repeatedly offer my obeisances unto you, the controller of the thirty primal demigods;unto you, the original father of all created beings; unto you, whose character is gracious; unto you, whose head is crested by the sickle moon arisen from the waves of the Ganga and unto you, who are a festival for the eyes of the fair goddess Gauri." 2) sutapta cämékara-candra-nélapadma- pravälämbuda-känti-vastraiù sa nåtya-raìgeñöa-vara-pradäya kaivalya-näthäya våña-dhvajäya "I offer my obeisances unto you, who are dressed in garments resembling molten gold, the moon, blue lotuses, coral, and dark rainclouds; unto you, who bestow the most desirable boons on your devotees by means of your delightful dancing; unto you, who are the master of the impersonalists and unto you, whose flag bears the image of the bull." 3) sudhaàçu-süryägni-vilocanena tamo-bhide te jagataù çiväya sahasra-çubhräàçu-sahasra-raçmisahasra- saïjit-tvara-tejase'stu " I offer my obeisances unto you, who dispells darkness with your three eyes - the moon, the sun and fire; unto you, who causes auspiciousness for all the living entities of the universe and unto you, whose potency easily defeats that of thousands of moons and suns." 4) nägeça-ratnojjvala-vigrahäya çärdüla-carmämçuka-divya-tejase sahasra-patropari saàsthitäya varäìgadä-mukta-bhuja-dvayäya "I offer my obeisances unto you, whose form is brilliantly illuminated by the jewels of Ananta, the king of snakes; unto you, who are clothed by a tiger-skin and thus radiate divine effulgence; unto you, who sits upon a thousand-petalled lotus and unto you, whose two arms are adorned by lusterous bangles." 5) su-nüpurä-räìjita-päda-padma kñarat-sudha-bhåtya-sukha-pradäya vicitra-ratnaugha-vibhüñitäya premänam evädya harau videhi "I offer my obeisances unto you, who brings happiness to your servitors, as you pour on them the liquid nectar from your two reddish lotus feet, which ring with charming anklebells. Obeisances unto you, who is adorned with an abundance of gems - please endow me with pure love for Lord Hari." 6) çré räma govinda mukunda çaure çré kåñëa näräyaëa väsudeva ity-ädi nämämåta-päna-mattabhåìgädhi- päyäkhila-dukha-hantre " 'O Shri Rama, O Govinda, O Mukunda, O shauri, O Shri krsna, O Narayana, O Vaasudeva!' I offer my obeisances unto you, Lord Shiva, the monarch of intoxicated bee-like devotees, maddened by drinking the nectar of these and other holy names of the Lord. Obeisances unto you, the destroyer of all grief." 7) çré näradädyaiù satataà sugopyajijïäsitä- yäçu vara-pradäya tebhyo harer bhakti-sukha-pradäya çiväya sarva-gurave namo namaù " I offer my respectful obeisances again and again unto you, who is forever enquired of confidentially by Shri Narada and other sages; unto you, who also grants favors to them very quickly; unto you, who bestows the happiness of Hari-bhakti; unto you, who creates auspiciousness and unto you, who is the guru of everyone." 8) çré gauré-netrosava-maìgaläya tat-präëa-näthäya rasa-pradäya sadä samutkaëöha-govinda-lélägäna- praviëäya namo'stu tubhyam "I offer my obeisances unto you, who are a festival of auspiciousness for the eyes of Goddess Gauri; unto you, who is the monarch of her life-breath; unto you, who is capable of bestowing transcendental rasa and unto you, who is expert in forever singing songs of the pastimes of Lord Govinda with great longing." 9) etat çivasyäñöakam adbhutaà mahat çåëvan hari-prema labheta çéghram jïänam ca vijïänam apürva-vaibhavaà yo bhäva-pürëaù paramaà samädaram " A person, filled with loving feelings, who hears with rapt attention this wonderful eight-fold prayer to Lord Shiva, can quickly gain Sri Hari-prema as well as transcendental knowledge, the realisation of that knowledge, and unprecedented powers."

Radhe Radhe If you can ply your trade here, so can datta swami, I guess.

Right. But first we must have “clean” water. Asian countries, including India, have water supply with high count of pathogenic bacteria and substances detrimental to health. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> The United Nations have projects to these countries to bring to even far flung places water supply which can be reasonably called clean or fit to drink. Gaudiya Math in new Mayapur has put up bore water near the streets so villagers can pump them anytime to have safe drinking water. I applaud them for that. I saw signs near the bore water source where it say “no arsenic”. Just imagine that – in some places the right to the most basic need is still a project in progress. <o:p></o:p> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<font size=" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place> consciuous devotees should not be lulled into thinking that ALL IS WELL IN <st1:country-region><st1:place>INDIA</st1:place></st1:country-region>. If we love <st1:country-region><st1:place>India</st1:place></st1:country-region> because that is where our Radha-Krishna played out their past times or our Guru took birth, then we must show this love in practical terms by sharing or doing something tangible. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Om Nama Om Shivayah

Ananta sesa: But then in that case, how can one say that there goes by 100 years before a new Brahma with 100 yrs of life comes along? Anata sesa: But since pradhana still is manifested, it must mean that there always (for eternity) will be some kind of "material cloud" in the spiritual sky, or? I suppose so. Think of this material universe as material universes, simultaneously manifesting and unmanifesting and think of time as circular and NOT linear (as in present, past, future time or like, event sucession after another) and maybe we can understand it a little bit. Satyanarayan das of Jiva Institute have a nice explantion about this, though I can't remember the reference. <!-- / message -->

Kisora-Kisori - the eternally youthful divine couple of Vraja<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Karunanidhi - the ocean of compassion<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Kalanidhi – the supreme artist Pitambar - the yellow or golden-dressed <o:p></o:p> Nataraj – king of dancers (not sure, maybe this pertains to Lord Shiva) <o:p></o:p> Rasanidhi – the ocean of rasa <o:p></o:p> Shyamasundar – whose body resembles a fesh monsoon clouds<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Radhe Radhe Thanks for that Muralimohandas. I really like that story about Sri Lochandas' disciple sweeping the area discreetly. Is this Sarvabhanadas the translator of Brhat Mrdanga's Jaiva Dharma?

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Ashvatama The contribution Thiest has done on these threads are wonderdul. I know of people who have read his comments, started reading Prabhupada's books and have moved into the ISKCON Temple. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Murali Mohan das :To the extent that he is surrendered, Sri Krishna has used theist to spread His mercy. To the extent that he still serves his own mind, theist is a pompous windbag. I definitely agree with you Muralimohandas. And to add, self-deception is the wost kind of deception. <!-- / message -->

With due respect Theist, I will change the question a little bit. Through his physical person can you contact the Spiritual Master’s teachings ? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> I ask the question above because I know, having followed this forum for years, that you mentioned you had physical association with Srila Prabhupad in the 70s. And I know, from a Prabhupad disciple, that you indeed attended a temple sometime during the 70s but DID NOT take initiation from SP. <o:p></o:p> I want to know if you wouldn’t mind, what made you decide that he was your guru after SP’s had left this planet. Did you NOT recognize him as a pure devotee of the Lord when he was in front of you as a walking, talking person talking about Krishna? <o:p></o:p> Many of the senior forummers here are his disciples who fully surrendered a part of their lives by serving SP and his mission. <o:p></o:p> I have noticed that you have written 12,000 + posts, the most amongst all of us. But you know, most of the time, TALK IS CHEAP ! <o:p></o:p>

Madhava - ever youthful Kunja Bihari - one who wanders amongst bowers Nanda Nandana - the son of Nanda Murari - the enemy of demon Mura Partha Sarathi - the charioteer of Arjuna