bhaktajan

melvin: Bhaktajan, it`s Christmas season. Love should prevail in your heart rather than name calling. ........................................................................... bhaktajan: The cost of liberty is eternal vigilance. Oh, I apollogise, if I proffered horrendous metaphors that elicited bile.

Sambhya: "im against iskcon" + "shri krishna misinterpreted and deformed by vaishnavas" melvin: "be one with Brahman rather than slam literally the plane your piloting into a building in New York, USA." + "counteract orthodoxy of Krsna consciousness preached by vaishnavas." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ iamwhatisayiam, beware of directions given by town cryers who have never been around the block past their village barn --they are so desperate for attention, while simultaneously, spreading graffitti --and proferring horrendous metaphors that elict bile. iamwhatisayiam, considered yourself cautioned herein by me. Beware the Bogus-Yogis aka bogie-yogi. Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors: ‘Sambhya & Melvin, I think you are both being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’

1]–Originally Posted by Deathless: “I would just like it if some of Lord Vishnu's worshipers would stop degrading the other devas and devis, as if it were some alternate way of praising Vishnu.” Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors: Deathless, did you mean to say, “ . . . as if it were NOT some alternate way of praising Vishnu.” ? ‘Deathless, I think you are being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’ ............................................................................................................... 2]–Originally Posted by Deathless: “Lord Vishnu's worshipers would stop degrading the other devas and devis” Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors: ‘Deathless, I think you are being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’ This notion that, “Lord Vishnu's worshipers degrade the other devas and devis” Is such unmitigated supra-convoluted misdirection to the enth-degree! The Vaishnavas accept the hierarchy of the Family tree of the devas [Dityas] that begins with Lord Brahma, which includes the biggest ‘Adityas’. I totally doubt that your views even conceive that the “devas and devis” signify that these very same “devas and devis” that, Deathless refers to, are real living and breathing, thinking, willing & feeling celestial beings [personages] –rather, my observation is that Deathless ultimately conceives that his “devas and devis” are symbolic principles rather then real-life principals. Deathless, I think you are being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure. ............................................................................................................... 3]—Originally Posted by Sambya: “what is mainstream sources according to you ? bhagavat ? charitamrita and brahma samhita ?” Bhaktajan, who quotes qualified mentors: Q.“mainstream sources???” A. Vyasadeva & Amar chitra katha. ‘Sambya, I think you are being rather obtuse, whether deliberately so or not I am not really sure.’

Melvin, como staka brau? Your academic acumen portends the erudition of a true teacher. Surely you must be a teacher. Are you a teacher? What do you teach? There are so many youth on rampaging riots in Greece and Europa --they will surely benefit from your knowledge of how to pacify the mongers that steal their birth rights to happiness, liberty and freedom. At least, we can gain solace in the study of the 'known sciences' which, as in the past, will demon-strate that real science will yield abundance for all ration-card carriers. {Unless, Melvin, you where being sincere about your statement, Tell that fairytale story to the children and they will love it. In which case you don't have to worry about taking shelter; since you are in possession of your own faculties and surely can fortell your flash in the pan existance via pop-culture. Bonzai!} I shall return, Bhaktajan

1] Regarding, “God as Mother” –I have been exploring this very topic without other poster’s inputting their thoughts upon this topic, yet. Yet now, you, iamwhatisayiam have brought it up here. Below is a story that can be dated –but “what is that date?” It may be observed that ‘time-line’ clues are sprinkled through-out this puranic tale –but I digress, herein is the story of the birth of maha-sakti [who undoubtly herein is ‘literally’ known and shown as the internal potency of Visnu]. {My super-esoteric contemplation/speculation is, that before Godhead first acted, in any capacity or to any degree HE was dormant and unmanifested and at peace and self-contained with all potentiality, innately asleep ---but then HIS ‘internal-creative-feminine’ opulence/potencies stirred HIM to arise and Create and then to sport etc etc etc --- that’s as far as my speculation goes} Anyway, the greatest Srimati Maha-Laxshmi Mata Adi-devi-ji uniquely [by default] obtains thee broadchest of MahaVishnu herself exclusively--and that seems just and right and nectarian. It is nectarian to me because I am aware of the sentiments of the servants of the servants of the childhood pastimes down on the dairy farm of vraja dhama that is revealed as the KINGDOM OF THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD. God, by definition, is the first person. God, by definition, possesses all "Six Opulences" in-full, par-excellance. "Six Opulences" are: All beauty, all strength, all wealth, all intelligence, all fame, & lastly all renunciation. Mind you, God IS TRANSCENDENTAL TO THE COSMOS --the same cosmos that the demigod Lord Brahma and all of us live in. The realm of heaven is out side the cosmos and that realm of heaven is alit by the light that begins in God's own bodily effulgence and is also the same rays of light that conversely form the 'space/void/field' where the material elements evolve herein Brahma's ''brahmanda" [egg-shaped enclosure of our cosmos] --our cosmos float in the space that is the very thing called BRAHMAN. The phantasmagoria of the cosmic flux of elements and forms and places and people and names and things and times and seasons and the good and the bad and the rule of duality is: temporary and relative. Whereas, Brahman is absolute. Whereas, the soul is transcendental. Yoga [linking-up] is about the soul's "orienting" itself to restablish its 'eternal duty' [sanatana-dharma] as a 'self-realized' person, an thus, part and parcel of the supreme Soul God Almightly, who Himself is Far away but, ironically God is also in the individual soul as the Life-force/consciouness the animates the body via the souls presence. God prevades our material Cosmos and also, the entirety of the whole of creation simultaneously in 3 Features: 1] God Exists as brahman [the empty-void/Absolute-Zero space/all-prevading/omnipresent field], 2] God Exists as Param-atma [the force in the nucleus of every 'animate & inanimate' speck/molecule of creation]. 3] God Exists as Bhagavan. [The Personage of God Himself; with his own name, fame, form, personality, paraphenalia, entourage and pastimes of none-other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead himself, Bhagavan Shree Krishna]. Excerpted from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana: . . . "It is I.I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. . . .” Or How the first Ekadasi Fast day, “Utpanna Ekadasi” was born. Lord Sri Krishna: “I will tell you why Ekadasi is the most purifying of all days. In the Satya-Yuga there once lived an amazingly fearsome demon called Mura. Always very angry, he terrified all the demigods, defeating even Indra, the king of heaven; Vivasvan, the sun-god; the eight Vasus; Lord Brahma; Vayu. the wind-god; and Agni, the fire-god. With his terrible power he brought them all under his control. "'Lord Indra then approached Lord Shiva and said, "We have all fallen from our planets and are now wandering helplessly on the earth. O lord, how can we find relief from this affliction? What will be the fate of us demigods?' "'Lord Shiva replied, "O best of the demigods, go to that place where Lord Vishnu, the rider of Garuda, resides. He is Jagannatha, the master of all the universes and their shelter as well. He is devoted to protecting all souls surrendered to Him.'" "Lord Krishna continued, 'O Arjuna, winner of wealth, after Lord Indra heard these words of Lord Shiva's, he proceeded with all the demigods to the place where Lord Jagannatha, the Lord of the universe, the protector of all souls, was resting. Seeing the Lord sleeping upon the water, the demigods joined their palms and, led by Indra, recite the following prayers: "'"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, all obeisances to You. O Lord of lords, O You who are praised by the foremost demigods, O enemy of all demons, O lotus-eyed Lord, O Madhusudana (killer of the Madhu demon), please protect us. Afraid of the demon Mura, we demigods have come to take shelter of You. O Jagannatha, You are the doer of everything and the creator of everything. You are the mother and the father of all universes. You are the creator, the maintainer, and the destroyer of all. You are the supreme helper of all the demigods, and You alone can bring peace to them. You alone are the earth, the sky, and the universal benefactor. "'"You are Shiva, Brahma, and also Vishnu, the maintainer of the three worlds. You are the gods of the sun, moon, and fire. You are the clarified butter, the oblation, the sacred fire, the mantras, the rituals, the priests, and the silent chanting of japa. You are the sacrifice itself, its sponsor, and the enjoyer of its results, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nothing within these three worlds, whether moveable or immovable, can exist independent of You. O Supreme Lord, Lord of lords, You are the protector of those who take shelter of You. O supreme mystic, O shelter of the fearful, please rescue and protect us. We demigods have been defeated by the demons and have thus fallen from the heavenly realm. Deprived of our positions, O Lord of the universe, we are now wandering about this earthly planet."' "Lord Krsna continued, 'Having heard Indra and the other demigods speak these words, Sri Vishnu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, replied, "What demon possesses such great powers of delusion that he has been able to defeat all the demigods? What is his name, and where does he live? Where does he get his strength and shelter? Tell Me everything, O Indra, and do not fear." "'Lord Indra replied, "O Supreme Godhead, O Lord of lords, O You who vanquish the fear in Your pure devotees' hearts, O You who are so kind to your faithful servants, there was once a powerful demon of the Brahma dynasty whose name was Nadijangha. he was extraordinarily fearsome and wholly dedicated to destroying the demigods, and he begot an infamous son named Mura. "'"Mura's great capital city is Chandravati. From that base the terribly evil and powerful Mura demon has conquered the whole world and brought all the demigods under his control, driving them out of their heavenly kingdom. He has assumed the roles of Indra, the king of heaven; Agni, the fire-god; Yama, the lord of death; Vayu, the wind-god; Isha, or Lord Shiva; Soma, the moon-god; Nairrti, the lord of the directions; and Pasi, or Varuna, the water-god. He has also begun emanating light in the role of the sun-god and has turned himself into the clouds as well. It is impossible for the demigods to defeat him. O Lord Vishnu, please kill tis demon and make the demigods victorious." "'Hearing these words from Indra, Lord Janardana became very angry and said, "O powerful demigods, all together you may now advance on Mura's capital city of Chandravati." Encouraged thus, the assembled demigods proceeded to Chandravati with Lord Hari leading the way. "'When Mura saw the demigods, that foremost of demons started roaring very loudly in the company of countless thousands of other demons, who were all holding brilliantly shining weapons. The mighty-armed demons struck the demigods, who began abandoning the battlefield and fleeing in the ten directions. Seeing the Supreme Lord Hrsikesha, the master of the senses, present on the battlefield, the furious demons rushed toward Him with various weapons in their hands. As they charged the Lord, who holds a sword, disk, and club, He immediately pierced all their limbs with His sharp, poisonous arrows. thus many hundred of demons died by the Lord's hand. "'At last the chief demon, Mura, began fighting with the Lord. Mura used his mystic power to render useless whatever weapons the Supreme Lord Hrsikesa unleashed. Indeed, to the demon the weapons felt just like flowers striking him. When the Lord could not defeat the demon even with various kinds of weapons - whether those that are thrown or those that are held - He began fighting with His bare hands, which were as strong as iron-studded clubs. The Lord wrestled with Mura for one thousand celestial years and then, apparently fatigued, left for Badarikashrama. There Lord Yogeshvara, the greatest of all yogis, the Lord of the universe, entered a very beautiful cave named Himavati to rest. O Dhananjaya, winner of wealth, that cave was ninety-six miles in diameter and had only one entrance. I went there out of fear, and also to sleep. There is no doubt about this, O son of Pandu, for the great fight made me very tired. the demon followed Me into that cave and, seeing Me asleep, started thinking within his heart, "Today I will kill this slayer of all demons, Hari." "'While the wicked-minded Mura was making plans in this way, from My body there manifested a young girl who had a very bright complexion. O son of Pandu, Mura saw that she was equipped with various brilliant weapons and was ready to fight. Challenged by that female to do battle, Mura prepared himself and then fought with her, but he became very astonished when he saw that she fought him without cessation. The king of the demons then said, "Who has created this angry, fearsome girl who is fighting me so powerfully, just like a thunderbolt falling upon me?' After saying this, the demon continued to fight with the girl. "'Suddenly that effulgent goddess shattered all of Mura's weapons and in a moment deprived him of his chariot. He ran toward her to attacker with his bare hands, but when she saw him coming she angrily cut off his head. Thus the demon at once fell to the ground and went to the abode of Yamaraja. The rest of the Lord's enemies, out of fear and helplessness, entered the subterranean Patala region. "'Then the Supreme Lord woke up and saw the dead demon before Him, as well as the maiden bowing down to him with joined palms. His face expressing His astonishment, the Lord of the universe said, "Who has killed this vicious demon? He easily defeated all the demigods, Gandharvas, and even Indra himself, along with Indra's companions, the Maruts, and he also defeated the Nagas (snakes), the rulers of the lower planets. He even defeated Me, making Me hide in this cave out of fear. Who is it that has so mercifully protected Me after I ran from the battlefield and went to sleep in this cave?" "'The maiden said, "It is I who have killed this demon after appearing from Your transcendental body. Indeed, O Lord Hari, when he saw You sleeping he wanted to kill You. Understanding the intention of this thorn in the side of the three worlds, I killed the evil rascal and this freed all the demigods from fear. I am Your great maha-sakti, Your internal potency, who strikes fear into the hearts of all Your enemies. I have killed this universally terrifying demon to protect the three worlds. Please tell me why You are surprised to see that this demon has been killed, O Lord." "'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O sinless one, I am very satisfied to see that it is you who have killed this king of the demons. In this way you have made the demigods happy, prosperous, and full of bliss. Because you have given pleasure to all the demigods in the three worlds, I am very pleased with you. Ask any boon you may desire, O auspicious one. I will give it to you without a doubt, though it be very rare among the demigods." ""The maiden said, "O Lord, if You are pleased with me and wish to give me a boon, then give me the power to deliver from the greatest sins that person who fasts of this day. I wish that half the pious credit obtained by one who fasts will accrue to one who eats only in the evening (abstaining from grains and beans), and that half of this pious credit will be earned by one who eats only at midday. Also, may one who strictly observes a complete fast on my appearance day, with controlled senses, go to the abode of Lord Vishnu for one billion kalpas after he has enjoyed all kinds of pleasures in this world. This is the boon I desire to attain by Your mercy, my Lord, O Lord Janardana, whether a person observes complete fasting, eats only in the evening, or eats only at midday, please grant him a religious attitude, wealth, and at last liberation." "'The Supreme Personality of Godhead said, "O most auspicious lady, what you have requested is granted. All My devotees in this world will surely fast on your day, and thus they will become famous throughout the three worlds and finally come and stay with me in My abode. Because you, My transcendental potency, have appeared on the eleventh day of the waning moon, let your name by Ekadasi. If a person fasts on Ekadasi, I will burn up all his sins and bestow upon him My transcendental abode. "'"These are the days of the waxing and waning moon that are most dear to Me: Tritiya (the third day), Ashthami (the eighth day), Navami (the ninth day), Chaturdasi (the fourteenth day), and especially Ekadasi (the eleventh day). "'"The merit one attains by fasting on Ekadasi is greater than that achieved by observing any other kind of fast or by going to a place of pilgrimage, and even greater than that achieved by giving charity to brahmanas. I tell you most emphatically that this is true." "'Having thus given the maiden His benediction, the Supreme Lord suddenly disappeared. From that time onward the Ekadasi day became most meritorious and famous all over the universe. O Arjuna, if a person strictly observes Ekadasi, I kill all his enemies and grant him the highest destination. Indeed, if a person observes this great Ekadasi fast in any of the prescribed way, I remove all obstacles to his spiritual progress and grant him the perfection of life. "'Thus, O son of Prtha, I have described to you the origin of Ekadasi. This one day removes all sins eternally. Indeed, it is the most meritorious day for destroying all kinds of sins, and it has appeared in order to benefit everyone in the universe by bestowing all varieties of perfection. This was excerpted from Utpanna Ekadasi [from the Bhavisya-uttara Purana] as found in the celebrated book, "Ekadasi: The Day of Lord Hari" 1986. pages 13 - 22. HH Krishna Balaram Swami. Bhaktivedanta Institute Press. 2] The path of “Nirvana” [without quality] is the tradition & the elementary vedic metaphysical yogic goal of those on the journey of ‘meditators’ in quest of inner ‘peace’ etc. Ultimately, “Nirvana” equates to shedding the ego, thus shedding lust, and then shedding ‘re-birth’ –all due to the analytic vision of the world as: ‘matter & energy forming various elements and forms for only short bursts of time’. But, the nature of the “Soul” is that it is not transient but eternal, and cannot be desolved –This is explained by God himself in the Gita. Having said this, it is the status-quo opinion of orthodox vedic adherents that ‘service’ to A PERSON is the ultimate & ‘constitutional’ original position & purpose of the souls existence. Having said this, it is also the status-quo opinion that the goal of Nirvana is a subtle ‘self-hating’ and a denial of ‘the individual self’. Faced with the un-chartable destiny of each re-birth’s desirable & undesirable outcomes – Nirvana provides an outlet for a gentleman to take refuge. But, tradition since time immemorial is that there are demigods and there is an “Almighty Singular Godhead-fountainhead–of-personal traits/experience/purpose/sensibilities/personality” ergo, the Goal of life is to “investigate” where are we, and, what are we, and where are we going. Well, one may ask, “That’s not a new revelation.” But, now the Bhagavad-gita is finally known outside of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place> –after so many many lifetimes later . . . it is indeed a “new revelation” among the same old souls. 3] The Gods of the Vedas are the descendants of the first born person, Brahma. Brahma is the first progenitor and engineer and assembler of the cosmos –Lord Brahma is the overseeing superintendent of the cosmos in the form of a person, literally. Brahma populated the universe via his grandchildrens’ grandchildrens ad infinitum to this day. The personalities that populate the Vedic scriptures come from an antiquity pre-dating western lore and hieroglyphics.

The goal to become one with the impersonal Brahman is greater than any material desire, but it is not without self-interest. Similarly, the mystic yogé who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self. But a person acting in Kåñëa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole, without self-interest. A Kåñëa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction. His criterion of success is the satisfaction of Kåñëa, and thus he is the perfect sannyäsé, or perfect yogé. çré bhagavän uväca idaà tu te guhyatamaà pravakñyämy anasüyave jïänaà vijïäna-sahitaà yaj jïätvä mokñyase ’çubhät “The Supreme Lord said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most secret wisdom, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.” (Bg. 9.1) The opening words of the Ninth Chapter of Bhagavad-gétä indicate that the Supreme Godhead is speaking. Here Çré Kåñëa is referred to as Bhagavän. Bhaga means opulences, and vän means one who possesses. We have some conception of God, but in the Vedic literature there are definite descriptions and definitions of what is meant by God, and what is meant is described in one word—Bhagavän. Bhagavän possesses all opulences, the totality of knowledge, wealth, power, beauty, fame and renunciation. When we find someone who possesses these opulences in full, we are to know that he is God. There are many rich, wise, famous, beautiful and powerful men, but no one man can claim to possess all of these opulences. Only Kåñëa claims to possess them in totality. bhoktäraà yajïa-tapasäà sarva-loka-maheçvaram suhådaà sarva-bhütänäà jïätvä mäà çäntim åcchati “The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries.” (Bg. 5.29)

Originally Posted by ranjeetmore: "The word of the mahatmas is accepted as a pramana." kaisersose's response: Definitely not when you are debating someone who is not of your own tradition. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Eureka, I think I may have found the origin of kaisersose's de'nile . . . upstream on the shores of Lake Victoria? Concrete, electronics, Plumbing, automotives, love & marriage --all meet international [& and interplanetary] standards of acceptable specifications. Evidently, kaisersose is of a different persuasion [not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just the pricinpal of the thang]. Or am I mixing apples and oranges.

Deathless, 1] re: BG 10.34 & PURPORT ". . . Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience." --you don't rate? ................................................................................................................... Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by bhaktajan Oh Deathless dweeb-meister, </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->You can always tell a great Vaishnava by how many insults they hurl. <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> ................................................................................................................... 2] Please check out my brillant & superb cut 'n paste Thread entitled: "What Srila Prabhupada said about Fools" http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-verses/446260-what-prabhupada-said-about-fools-1-4-a.html Now that we have come to a common understanding --I feel gratified that I took all the time to assemble what a wise old Indian Holy man said & published for an audience of Pre-Post-Cold War chaos. Thank you for your theraputic insight. ..................................................................................................................... 3] I apollogize* to you Deathless for digressing --I went off course due to forces beyond my control. What I have been contributing to this thread was: ""To show that “Devi’s” existence required finding an appropriate Husband"" etcetera etcetera etcetera. Go in peace. 4] OH MY GOD! I allmost forgot! Below is what I think you have been yearning to see. So, I hope you don't think this was too presumptuous of me . . .

Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Deathless What the hell? What does that even mean? So many of your posts make no sense whatsoever. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Bhaktajan's clarifying answer: Deathless, Don't be a "atma-ha"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! {"atma-ha"* is a sanskrit word in Sri Isopanishad which means . . . This term is what is fearsome about ADVAITA to Vaishnavas} or else you will be like Mr Addams & Family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Addams_Family ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Bhaktajan: 1] Vedanta is composed of metaphysical analysis that UNEQUIVICALLY CONCLUDES with the Mono-Theistic conclusion as supported by its Author Srila Vyasadeva [vedanta-sastra-avatara incarnate]["vyasa-asana's namesake"]. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 2] Originally Posted by Kaisersose: "If you can produce quotes from one of these texts to support your position, then you will be having a strong case. " Bhaktajan: A) Isopanisad is an imporatant Vaishnava text because, as one of the Upanisad, it is one that explicitly exponds upon the nature of a Singular Personality of Godhead --SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS TOPIC WITH YOU POSTS? B) The starter of this thread similarly sought to reduce Godhead & the scriptural truths substantiating Godheads' attributes [albeit in the Upanishads, which, as a group, are famously considered to be "expositions on the impersonal aspect of Godhead"] maybe there are rogue (or novice) Vaishnavas who would be enamoured with you thorough erudition of your favorite selection of books that are counted among the Voluminous Vedic-Literatures. A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's translations arrived just in time for me and others to 'pick-up our own copies'. A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's translations are the OED of Vedic Literatures meant for advanced study . . . There is so much convoluted circular non-logic, done with such posh, that I think the poster is using algorithms and a data-base to acheive such a high level of misanthropic discourse --that it can not be spontaneous, but, fully contrived. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm the only one who has been 'Card Counting." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 3] Originally Posted by Kaisersose: ridiculous assertions about Advaita with no evidence, on this forum. You do not want to be part of that group. Bhaktajan repeats: SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS TOPIC WITH YOU POSTS? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 4] Originally Posted by Kaisersose: If I may, here is a suggestion. Audarya Fellowship <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> User Control Panel <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->Buddy / Ignore Lists <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --> Initially, my thoughts were this is a childish/immature thing to do. But now I see its merits. It feels wonderful to be able to filter out trashy posts. Bhaktajan: Raja-yoga precepts are for advanced-sincere souls. Put on "Blinders" --I'll help with the "Yoke". And then you can carry your burden with stablity with thanks due by you to me and my all mentors. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 5] Originally Posted by Deathless What the hell? What does that even mean? Bhaktajan: Oh PS Babaji, I was suggesting that you disassociate your self from cult-personalities like "Grandpa Munster" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandpa_Munster

Oh Deathless dweeb-meister, I was going to reply ... but I HAVE LOST ALL CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OPINION AND SINCERITY. Therefore, I will be neglecting you and I will not look back.

Originally Posted by Kaisersose: "If you can produce quotes from one of these texts to support your position, then you will be having a strong case. " A) Isopanisad is an imporatant Vaishnava text because, as one of the Upanisad, it is one that explicitly exponds upon the nature of a Singular Personality of Godhead --SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THIS TOPIC WITH YOU POSTS? B) The starter of this thread similarly sought to reduce Godhead & the scriptural truths substantiating Godheads' attributes [albeit in the Upanishads, which, as a group, are famously considered to be "expositions on the impersonal aspect of Godhead"] maybe there are rogue (or novice) Vaishnavas who would be enamoured with you thorough erudition of your favorite selection of books that are counted among the Voluminous Vedic-Literatures. A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's translations arrived just in time for me and others to 'pick-up our own copies'. A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami's translations are the OED of Vedic Literatures meant for advanced study . . . There is so much convoluted circular non-logic, done with such posh, that I think the poster is using algorithms and a data-base to acheive such a high level of misanthropic discourse --that it can not be spontaneous, but, fully contrived. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm the only one who has been 'Card Counting."

Give us a break, Your Highnee. ADD dis-allows query response? Know those above Vyasadeva? Know a Vyasa-asana higher with a better vista for your high pirch? I DON"T TINK SO BUBBA.

Cow economics SOCIALISM You have 2 cows. You give one to your neighbour. COMMUNISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and gives you some milk. FASCISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and sells you some milk. NAZISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both and shoots you. BUREAUCRATISM You have 2 cows. The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other, and then throws the milk away… TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income. SURREALISM You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons AN AMERICAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. Later, you hire a consultant to analyse why the cow has dropped dead. ENRON VENTURE CAPITALISM You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven cows back to your listed company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. You sell one cow to buy a new president of the ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> , leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release. The public then buys your bull. A FRENCH CORPORATION You have two cows. You go on strike, organise a riot, and block the roads, because you want three cows. A JAPANESE CORPORATION You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You then create a clever cow cartoon image called 'Cowkimon' and market it worldwide. A GERMAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves. AN ITALIAN CORPORATION You have two cows, but you don't know where they are. You decide to have lunch. A RUSSIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 2 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. A SWISS CORPORATION You have 5000 cows. None of them belong to you. You charge the owners for storing them. A CHINESE CORPORATION You have two cows. You have 300 people milking them. You claim that you have full employment, and high bovine productivity. You arrest the newsman who reported the real situation. AN INDIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You worship them. A BRITISH CORPORATION You have two cows. Both are mad. AN IRAQI CORPORATION Everyone thinks you have lots of cows. You tell them that you have none. No-one believes you, so they bomb the **** out of you and invade your country. You still have no cows, but at least now you are part of Democracy… AN AUSTRALIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. Business seems pretty good. You close the office and go for a few beers to celebrate.

all gaudiyas in this forum FEAR advaita. Of course "FEAR" only as far as an intellectual conclusion to defeat Theism. Vedanta is conposed of metaphysical analysis that SHOULD CONCLUDE with the Mono-Theistic conclusion that is supported by its Author Srila Vyasadeva. Stop being a real-life Grandpa Munster --lovable but none-the-less a resurrected Vampire with strange recipes and a hidden dungeon under the floor boards. Grandpa Munster:

Originally Posted by Sambya (Post #27) i see !!!! the moderator found your posts so useless ?? i feel sorry for you !!! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: WRONG AGAIN! I have been deleted because I will call fools: God da@^%$*^ F*%#$@ Bull*&^% Artists So, the moderator knows you can't handle the truth without TAKING OFFENSE. So political correctness should abide God da@^%$*^ F*%#$@ Bull*&^% Artists like your self (No Offense). ....................................................... Also, to quote ranjeetmore: To Sambya & Deathless: A) You are simply avoiding all my posts (I'm not taking pride in it...I'm just stating the plain,cold fact.) B) Frankly,I am just bored replying to your never ending speculations. Clearly,you have no intentions of actual debating ,OTHERWISE you would have. If you cannot or don't want to,Please don't harrass us with useless speculation ("Useless" --this adjective is meant to denote the nature of your imperfect speculations and not yourself. No offense.) Bhaktajan PS: "Be carefull what you ask for --you may receive it"

Originally Posted by sambya (Post 147): exactly !! i have no intention for debating !! neither do i post with the intention of debating , winning or loosing. however it is very hard for any man of reasonable intellect( which , im sure you lack with your majority isconite brothers ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Sambya evidently has no intention of debating , winning or loosing. Sambya, "Be carefull what you ask for --you may receive it" no win no lose--just whimisical grazing?

"Be carefull what you ask for --you may receive it" This signifies that expressing ones heart's content requires percise contractural wordage, lest one receives unintended results. vs. Harinama-japa/Hari-smarana --which becomes more pin-pointed as time passes. This comes to fruition at the end of life.

You've really confused with the word Bhakti. Just try to find the origin of that term and to whom it is applied. How we term the worshiping to Devas? AND why we give a different name to the worshiping of Hari. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; Excellent Proposal!

I'm sorry, I couldn't finish reading your ridiculously long response. What? Why not? Do I care to be informed of your shortcomings? Should I send you an invoice for my 'paying attention to you'? For what will it profit me to read your half-hearted responses? Albeit, indifferent unabashed rhetorical questions? Your own aggenda is . . . ? Without aggenda? Aggenda-less?

"The Bhagavata Purana" is Srila Veda Vyasa dev's work. Hey baby, Learn who your Sampradaya is!

Originally Posted by Deathless: "I'm sorry, I couldn't finish reading your ridiculously long response." DEAR MODERATOR, Please inform Deathless that Bhaktajan has been deleted many many times (by the MODERATOR) and so, Bhaktajan has amended his writting style of berating chasticements to be more acid and incisive and acceptable to remaining posted with the ultimate intention of shaving his aggrevator's Head and leaving a sikha. Then the Tilak. And then Bhaktajan will start his lecturing. And then . . . lessons in 'Overcoming Fear' pep talks will ensue . . . and then Bhaktajan will ignore Deathless-ness's haughty highnee.

"Hmmm... more extremely long replies! Can't you state an idea simply? Not every idea needs to be stated in a ten page essay." <!-- / message -->Thank you for contributing your considerate replies. Your erudition shines much light on an esoteric subject that is usually lost to most samsara-ites.

Bhaktajan sought to show that “Devi’s” existence required finding an appropriate Husband. For example, 1] Krishna's 'internal-pleasure potentcy' is considered feminine (the energy) and, Krishna is considered mascaline (the energetic). Krishna's 'internal-pleasure potentcy' could stay in a nidra-Narayana (Mahavishnu's sleep) state until the creative-potency stirs -- thus, necessitating the Masculine Feature of the Purusha (Persona) to consort with. IOW Hara awoke, thus, causing Adi-Purusha to sporting pastimes. 2] If Durga exists then it is required to find the best suited husband . . . Voila! --and who do you think that would be?

Deathless! Check if you rate: BG 10.34 . . . Among women I am fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience. PURPORT . . . The seven opulences listed—fame, fortune, fine speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience—are considered feminine. If a person possesses all of them or some of them they become glorious. If a person is famous as a righteous man, that makes him glorious. Sanskrit is a perfect language and is therefore very glorious. If after studying one can remember a subject matter, a person is gifted with a good memory, or smrti. And the ability not only to read many books on different subject matters but to understand them and apply them when necessary is intelligence (medha), another opulence. The ability to overcome unsteadiness is called firmness or steadfastness (dhrti). And when one is fully qualified yet is humble and gentle, and when one is able to keep his balance both in sorrow and in the ecstasy of joy, he has the opulence called patience (ksama). :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: See my post regarding sublime/transcendental/Yogic principles of childbirth: http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-verses/445387-garbhadhana-samskara-what-prabhupada-said-about-sex.html

SB3.14.26 Lord Çiva regards no one as his relative, yet there is no one who is not connected with him; he does not regard anyone as very favorable or abominable. We respectfully worship the remnants of his foodstuff, and we vow to accept what is rejected by him. PURPORT Kaçyapa informed his wife that just because Lord Çiva happened to be his brother-in-law, that should not encourage her in her offense towards him. Kaçyapa warned her that actually Lord Çiva is not connected with anyone, nor is anyone his enemy. Since he is one of the three controllers of the universal affairs, he is equal to everyone. His greatness is incomparable because he is a great devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is said that among all the devotees of the Personality of Godhead, Lord Çiva is the greatest. Thus the remnants of foodstuff left by him are accepted by other devotees as mahä-prasäda, or great spiritual foodstuff. The remnants of foodstuff offered to Lord Kåñëa are called prasäda, but when the same prasäda is eaten by a great devotee like Lord Çiva, it is called mahä-prasäda. Lord Çiva is so great that he does not care for the material prosperity for which every one of us is so eager. Pärvaté, who is the powerful material nature personified, is under his full control as his wife, yet he does not use her even to build a residential house. He prefers to remain without shelter, and his great wife also agrees to live with him humbly. People in general worship goddess Durgä, the wife of Lord Çiva, for material prosperity, but Lord Çiva engages her in his service without material desire. He simply advises his great wife that of all kinds of worship, the worship of Viñëu is the highest, and greater than that is the worship of a great devotee or anything in relation with Viñëu. SB3.14.20 As a fort commander very easily conquers invading plunderers, by taking shelter of a wife one can conquer the senses, which are unconquerable in the other social orders. PURPORT Of the four orders of human society—the student, or brahmacäré order, the householder, or gåhastha order, the retired, or vänaprastha order, and the renounced, or sannyäsé order—the householder is on the safe side. The bodily senses are considered plunderers of the fort of the body. The wife is supposed to be the commander of the fort, and therefore whenever there is an attack on the body by the senses, it is the wife who protects the body from being smashed. The sex demand is inevitable for everyone, but one who has a fixed wife is saved from the onslaught of the sense enemies. A man who possesses a good wife does not create a disturbance in society by corrupting virgin girls. Without a fixed wife, a man becomes a debauchee of the first order and is a nuisance in society—unless he is a trained brahmacäré, vänaprastha or sannyäsé. Unless there is rigid and systematic training of the brahmacäré by the expert spiritual master, and unless the student is obedient, it is sure that the so-called brahmacäré will fall prey to the attack of sex. There are so many instances of falldown, even for great yogés like Viçvämitra. A gåhastha is saved, however, because of his faithful wife. Sex life is the cause of material bondage, and therefore it is prohibited in three äçramas and is allowed only in the gåhastha-äçrama. The gåhastha is responsible for producing first-quality brahmacärés, vänaprasthas and sannyäsés. SB3.22.11 Sväyambhuva Manu said, Therefore please accept her, O chief of the brähmaëas, for I offer her with faith and she is in every respect fit to be your wife and take charge of your household duties. PURPORT The words gåhamedhiñu karmasu mean “in household duties.” Another word is also used here: sarvätmanänurüpäm. The purport is that a wife should not only be equal to her husband in age, character and qualities, but must be helpful to him in his household duties. The household duty of a man is not to satisfy his sense gratification, but to remain with a wife and children and at the same time attain advancement in spiritual life. One who does not do so is not a householder but a gåhamedhé. Two words are used in Sanskrit literature; one is gåhastha, and the other is gåhamedhé. The difference between gåhamedhé and gåhastha is that gåhastha is also an äçrama, or spiritual order, but if one simply satisfies his senses as a householder, then he is a gåhamedhé. For a gåhamedhé, to accept a wife means to satisfy the senses, but for a gåhastha a qualified wife is an assistant in every respect for advancement in spiritual activities. It is the duty of the wife to take charge of household affairs and not to compete with the husband. A wife is meant to help, but she cannot help her husband unless he is completely equal to her in age, character and quality. SB4.21.46 They all declared that the Vedic conclusion that one can conquer the heavenly planets by the action of a putra, or son, was fulfilled, for the most sinful Vena, who had been killed by the curse of the brähmaëas, was now delivered from the darkest region of hellish life by his son, Mahäräja Påthu. PURPORT According to the Vedic version, there is a hellish planet called Put, and one who delivers a person from there is called putra. The purpose of marriage, therefore, is to have a putra, or son who is able to deliver his father, even if the father falls down to the hellish condition of put. Mahäräja Påthu’s father, Vena, was a most sinful person and was therefore cursed to death by the brähmaëas. Now all the great saintly persons, sages and brähmaëas present in the meeting, after hearing from Mahäräja Påthu about his great mission in life, became convinced that the statement of the Vedas had been fully proved. The purpose of accepting a wife in religious marriage, as sanctioned in the Vedas, is to have a putra, a son qualified to deliver his father from the darkest region of hellish life. Marriage is not intended for sense gratification but for getting a son fully qualified to deliver his father. But if a son is raised to become an unqualified demon, how can he deliver his father from hellish life? It is therefore the duty of a father to become a Vaiñëava and raise his children to become Vaiñëavas; then even if by chance the father falls into a hellish life in his next birth, such a son can deliver him, as Mahäräja Påthu delivered his father. SB4.26.16 King Puraïjana said: I do not understand why my household paraphernalia does not attract me as before. I think that if there is neither a mother nor devoted wife at home, the home is like a chariot without wheels. Where is the fool who will sit down on such an unworkable chariot? PURPORT The great politician Cäëakya Paëòita said: mätä yasya gåhe nästi bhäryä cäpriya-vädiné araëyaà tena gantavyaà yathäraëyaà tathä gåham “If a person has neither a mother nor a pleasing wife at home, he should leave home and go to the forest, because for him there is no difference between the forest and home.” The real mätä, or mother, is devotional service to the Lord, and the real patné, or devoted wife, is a wife who helps her husband execute religious principles in devotional service. These two things are required for a happy home. Actually, a woman is supposed to be the energy of the man. Historically, in the background of every great man there is either a mother or a wife. One’s household life is very successful if he has both a good wife and mother. In such a case, everything about household affairs and all the paraphernalia in the house becomes very pleasing. Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu had both a good mother and pleasing wife, and He was very happy at home. Nonetheless, for the benefit of the whole human race, He took sannyäsa and left both His mother and wife. In other words, it is essential that one have both a good mother and wife in order to become perfectly happy at home. Otherwise home life has no meaning. Unless one is religiously guided by intelligence and renders devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his home can never become very pleasing to a saintly person. In other words, if a man has a good mother or a good wife, there is no need of his taking sannyäsa—that is, unless it is absolutely necessary, as it was for Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu.