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Posts posted by jijaji

  1. Originally posted by Rati:

    I never thought I personally was the living proof of anything. Just because I never took up the practice of lila smaran and only really have experience with japa meditation does not preclude me from ever successfully taking it up in the future.


    > Yes I have heard this before as well from those who have taken diksha but do not have much of a practice i.e.


    >"Well I have that connection and can always take it up later"


    > That just makes my point regarding belonging to a certain line/group etc as a replacement for realization.


    >Better to have a simple practice you can do 'NOW' because 'NOW' is 'ALL' we have...

    It's like..."Well one day I'll start goin to church....but I believe now, I believe!!"


    If I had attempted it and it turned out to be too difficult, then perhaps that might have proven something. That is still all a bunch of hypotheticals: If this, if that.




    Besides, who has ever advocated raganuga bhajan for the masses? Nobody I have ever heard of. Rup, Sanatan, Jiv or Visvanath propagated harinam sankirton for the masses, but never the esoteric practices, nor have any recent Gaudiya gurus. You waste time arguing against persons that do not even exist. OK, if you want to spend your time that way, that's cool with us.


    > Understand I not saying you advocate it for the masses..don't put words in my mouth. I am saying the masses need something different than such an esoteric difficult practice...ya get me??



    As far as your comments about repression of women, that was as rampant (if not more so) in the West as it has been in the East.


    > you think so huh...?


    It may not seem that way, only because the women's movement that began with the struggle for the right to vote in America got under way here first and now is fairly new in India. But, you will have to admit that progress has been made in India. Most women work outside the home, which is not so commonplace in the Arab countries.


    >Well progress for women in India came about from people like Ram Mohan Rao not by religious founders generally. Look at Sri Chaitanya, he kind of set the tone in the Gaudiya Vaishnava faith by his attitudes regarding women and his action toward Chota Haridas especially.


    [This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-25-2002).]

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  2. Originally posted by Jagat:

    On the contrary, Jijaji, though what you say has some merit, there is value to doing even the smallest bit of practice. That was the point of my previous post.


    >no doubt a small amont of practice will benefit ..I agree.


    Chanting 64 rounds while meditating constantly is not the only aspect of the practice. Hearing and chanting about Radha and Krishna is also of great importance.




    There is also a great deal of value in simple identification itself. What I believe I am is almost as important as what I do, and the latter will follow on the former if it is strong enough.


    > I question that...my thinking is what

    'I do'

    is more important that what

    'I believe I am'...


    >You can only judge a person on their actions not on what they believe about themselves.


    I think there is a fundamental distinction in the way that Raganuga Bhaktas think about the world; one that would no doubt come closer to your way of seeing it, I think.


    > again perhaps...

    although I still see some dogma in their acceptance of orthodox Gaudiya doctrine.


    Focusing on the Divine Couple, in particular the "Female Moiety" will give a thoughtful devotee a different perspective on the world, one that gives predominance to the virtues that have traditionally been called feminine. The arguments that Raganuga devotees sometimes get into seems to rather go against the spirit of the thing, but on the whole, I see a general maturing of those devotees who are involved in this path.


    > Well time is the great equalizer right?


    I humbly pray to all the devotees and to every divine power that exists to be able to meet the ideals that are immanent in the Divine Couple and Their worship.




    Many of those involved with Raganuga worship happen to be intellectuals who have come to Raganuga through an intellectual journey. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is not true Raganuga. This explains somewhat why their practice has been unsteady. Nevertheless, their influence on Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a whole is disproportional to their numbers and this influence is salutary.


    > It can be seen like that yes, another way is how I see it and that is that the orthodox practices of Raganuga/Siddha Pranali/leela smaranam are not suited for the spiritual needs of modern man and women. And that is why perhaps people who have taken diksha into that system have not been able to practice and assimilate into their daily lives. To say it is because they are intellectuals does not explain why there is no practice in their daily lifes of the system they belong to.





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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

  3. What I am saying here is that people attach themselves to belief systems because they do not know nor have they had direct realization of divine reality themselves, with their own eyes.


    So they 'BELIEVE' and practice esoteric 'mental gymnastics' which will hopefully bridge the gap between 'belief' and 'knowing' one day. Some even adopt the practice of dressing Indian or shaving the head etc.



    They are encouraged that if they follow correctly they will attain to the same realization and experience of 'Truth' that others before them had who followed.


    One thing to be remembered...


    Truth NEVER EVER happens to Organizations or groups or sects.


    Moksha or Kaivalya or 'Prem' happens 'ONLY' to INDIVIDUALS. Because 'Truth' is an individual affair that can only happen to 'YOU'.

    Your experience and expression of 'Truth' or 'God' Or 'Atman' or 'Nirvana' is 'Yours' and 'Yours' 'ALONE'...


    To impose your truth upon others, to develop dogmatic elaborate systems with hard-line rules and regulations (ALL RELIGIONS HAVE THEM) and a system for official belief is to dis-allow the freedom of discovery of 'Truth' in and of itself as an individual experience.


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  4. Rati...


    You prove my point very well....

    you are the 'living proof'in fact...

    that raganuga bhajana is not a practical spiritual practice for the mass of humanity in this day and age.

    Many seek affiliation with ancient traditions and lines that give complex esotetic practices and teachings because it is a replacement for realization.

    To have spiritual awakening is no easy or common thing, so seekers gravitate to a tradition that clams to possess the 'Highest' or most intimate or most secret teachings etc etc etc.

    This is simply a SUBSTITUTE for realizing the 'TRUTH' itself.

    It's like 'Fundy Christians' who say all ya gotta do is 'BEIEVE'...


    not that easy sahibji..


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-25-2002).]

  5. So many of these esoteric practices need to be renewed so to speak to fit into ther modern world. So few can go to such places as Radha-Kunda and sit for Bhajan.


    I also feel many of the outdated outlooks towards women and sex incrusted in the religious systems where these esoteric practices come from need to be updated as well.


    The first update should be that men and women don't need to be separated!

    In fact it is a violence in of itself.


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  6. Originally posted by Rati:

    Just because Jijaji has not met any Westerners that he considers to be absorbed in bhajan to an acceptable level does not mean that they are not out there. When looking for examples we need to look to those that are exemplary and not just point out those that are less than exemplary in order to judge a whole tradition. I think that Jijaji has read about Ronald Nixon, a British subject that lived in the 20th century and became a rasika saint in the Gaudiya tradition. Perhaps he forgot to consider that counter example.


    [This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-25-2002).]

    Perhaps I did forget....but still that shows how few are capable of practicing this esoteric system.


    BTW....do you chant, meditate or do any actual practice on regular basis?


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  7. Originally posted by jijaji:

    Jijaji's Ghostbuster technique...


    Just offer a little incence (nice sandlewood) to a picture of Ma Kali in the area associated with the spooks...


    They go running, no kidding. For some reason Ma Kali scares the hell out of them!


    This is a fool-proof technique...just try it and you will sense the slimmers high-tailing it out of the area!


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-24-2002).]


    Hey Guys..this really works..!


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  8. I have for many years been involved in these discussions on Siddha Pranali and other Gaudiya issues.


    Now let me cut to the chase here.


    In all those years I am YET to find any western followers who have taken diksha and received information regarding their Siddha-deha ..who actually daily practice this technique.


    It seems more time is spent on debating it's authenticity to those who misunderstand and condemm it.


    And most who have taken it put more importance on recieving this than on a daily spiritual practice at least looking at the track record. Most people I know who have taken diksha are far removed from any sadhana it seems...

    At least that is what I have seen....

    All the endless debate about how without proper diksha one cannot advance in spiritual life etc ..blah blah blah...


    I say.....

    Sitting down with simple meditation and trying to find some stillness inside yourself if done on a daily basis is stronger than being connected to the most noble of sampradayas where you do nothing but debate how important you are.


    Spiritual realization comes from practice....

    Not belonging to a line of teachers who practiced things so difficult and far-removed from this day and age.



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  9. Originally posted by karthik_v:

    I think that a good place for raising questions about the intricacies of Advaita will be www.advaita-vedanta.org


    There are some very knowledgeable participants there, who can give a scriptural perspective. Also, you may search the Hindunet for old discussions between Ramakrishnan Balasubramanian (Advaita) of UIUC and Hari Krishna Susarla (ISKCON) of Rice univ. At times their discussions became acrimonious, but for most part very informative. I don't have the urls.

    I followed many of those discussions for years..some very informative stuff indeed!




    'Get Down in the Get Down'



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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-24-2002).]

  10. Jijaji's Ghostbuster technique...


    Just offer a little incence (nice sandlewood) to a picture of Ma Kali in the area associated with the spooks...


    They go running, no kidding. For some reason Ma Kali scares the hell out of them!


    This is a fool-proof technique...just try it and you will sense the slimmers high-tailing it out of the area!


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-24-2002).]

  11. Originally posted by Rati:

    A website about yoga:



    [This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-19-2002).]


    Rati...I saw this article (below) on this website you are promoting.


    What exactly are you advocating here?


    Have you have gone 'Sahajiya' Ol Bean?





    M E N T A L C O N C E N T R A T I O N

    D U R I N G L O V E M A K I N G

    P A R T 1


    In 1970, Masters and Johnson made popular a new technique that they called "sexual focusing". This technique simply consists in focusing one's attention on the sensations that occurr during lovemaking, without letting one's mind to loaf.


    Applying this technique during foreplay or during massage exercises was the first step in curing sexual dysfunctions for both men and women.


    Similar to the Concentration (Dharana) phase in Yoga, the sexual concentration is an absolutely necessary phase for reaching the perfect harmony in couple, by favouring the focusing of the very powerful energies that take place during lovemaking and guiding them to the high levels of the human being.


    We don't have to see the method of achieving a meditative attitude during lovemaking as an exercise, as an instrument or as a technique performed in order to obtain a purpose in the future - the sexual performance, the mystique experience or anything else.


    It is better to see it only as a way to go deep inside of us, in the present moment, in what we are doing and in what we are experiencing, therefore a way to stop our thoughts.


    There are more aspects of eros we can firmly focus our attention on, in order to eliminate any other thought, in this way driving ourselves close to the subtle plans of the mystique conscience. These aspects of the lovemaking can be active or passive.


    Let's take as an example, the touch: we can either concentrate our attention on given touches that represent the active aspect of touch, or on received touches that represent the passive aspect of touch. Also, the aspects of erotism can be general or specified, depending on how many sensations are perceived in the same time.


    Yet, the most beautiful feeling is the feeling of merging with the lover and with the entire Universe. This phenomenon appears step by step through continuously refining of the transfiguring act.




    The stopping of the thought has become a popular technique. In the arsenal of occidental therapeutics, this technique has entered powerfully after the 70s, being used as an active and direct treatment in the fixed idea (monomania). It came in contrast with the psychoanalytic method which was slower, more indirect, though in a certain direction - more comprehensive.


    The idea that a person can direct her perception and attention, performing in this way a certain control over his/her own cognitive functions, is applied in order to modify the sexual behaviour. It proves to be very useful especially when the sexual dysfunctions are generated by a disturbing mental pattern that occurs during the lovemaking.


    As much as we start to focus ourselves on the sensorial, direct perceptions of the erotic act, it becomes obvious the idea that "these thoughts occur to me" and that "I am not these thoughts". Therefore, we will let those thoughts pass over us and go out of our conscience without giving them any value or becoming attached to them.


    As soon as we will become aware of the fact that the thoughts are external to our being and that just by feeding them and by accepting them we make them alive and sustain them, we will easily realize that it is easy to stop their activity.


    An efficient way to begin is to ignore them and not pay any attention to them, by making efforts to concentrate over the sensations we feel while making love.


    With the time passing, the stopping of these thoughts will occur spontaneously, while the person is paying attention only to the orgasmic and sensual experiences.




    1. In case that certain inhibitory thoughts or certain thoughts, which are disturbing the harmonious lovemaking occur, because of some psychic traumas in connection with the sexual activity, you must have in mind to concentrate yourselves over the most intense sensation (tactile, visual, tasting, smelling) you feel.


    Let yourself be absorbed by this sensation, let yourself become one with it. As much as you melt in this sensation, experiencing it at maximum intensity, you realize that any disturbing thought will disappear, letting the place free for the pleasure and for the happiness.


    Doing the same with the other sensations, you will realize that the intense experience will free hidden forces in your own human being. As soon as you achieve this experience, you will realize that the thoughts easily disappear and they will be kept ever under the control.



    2. You are ready go to bed (after they have undressed and had a shower). She is lying down while you softly caress her back sensually.


    You have to concentrate yourself only on the sensation you receives from touching her skin and the harmonious forms of her body. In the same time, the woman has to focus her attention on your caresses.


    She mustn't let her mind be disturbed by other thoughts. She shouldn't think of anything else. In this way you won't let your minds wander. By concentrating on your sensations you can be more aware and fully experience all the sensations.








    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-24-2002).]

  12. Originally posted by Rati:

    If pyschedelic drugs were their sacrament, they probably had no dearth of devoted followers.






    (((((((((((( Posted Image((((((((((((((






    (Remember op art?)





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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-22-2002).]

  13. Man set foot in Ice-Age Tibet



    By Nick Easen

    CNN Hong Kong

    April 18, 2002


    LHASA, China -- Fossilized hand and footprints have revealed that mankind lived on the Tibetan plateau at the height of the Ice Age -- 16,000 years earlier than anyone previously thought.


    The 19 fossilized signs of life have also cast doubt on the theory that the plateau was fully covered by a glacier one kilometer thick at that time.


    The 20,000 year-old prints, 85 kilometers (53 miles) from Lhasa, predates any archaeological evidence on the plateau and suggests that man may have migrated to the "roof of the world" extremely early on.


    At the arid and frigid site, 4,200 meters above sea level, scientists found the marks of at least six individuals, of which two were children, including a well-structured stove.


    "The findings mean that human settlement here is 16,000 years earlier than scientists thought, but also human beings had the ability to adapt to such cold environment," Hong Kong University's Professor David Zhang told CNN.


    Since the height of the last Ice Age was between 24,000 and 18,000 years ago, the evidence, which shocked Zhang, shows that early man could adapt to this extreme environment.


    The findings, published in both the journal Nature and an American geophysical journal, are also a nail in the coffin for the ice-covered plateau hypothesis.


    The theory indicates that the 4,000-meter high Tibetan plateau was completely covered in ice, thicker than the present Greenland ice sheet, even during the last Ice Age.


    Yet the findings clearly indicate that the plateau was partially ice-free, and that man was able to survive there, albeit around hot springs where the climate was more equitable.


    Until this discovery, the oldest known settlements were from the Late Neolithic Age, around 4,000 years ago, which led scientists to believe that Tibetans migrated onto the high-plateau around this time.


    Archaeological findings of prehistoric remnants are rare in Tibet because of its political sensitivity and poor physical conditions.


    Stumbled on the marks

    Fossilized footprints at a hotspring, perhaps the Tibetan plateau was more habitable that scientists first thought

    Professor Zhang stumbled on the marks in marble-like rocks, while he investigated the hot springs in 1986, and returned to collect a sample in 1995.


    It was not until 1999 when he involved dating specialist Professor S.H. Li that they were able to calculate the age of the hand and footprints.


    The Ice-Age hot spring that probably attracted early Tibetan settlers also preserved their hand and footprints for future posterity.


    The soft mineral mud prints dried in to a durable limestone deposit called travertine, which allowed Zhang and Li to date the prints using a technique called thermo-luminescence dating.


    The process involves using quartz as a mineral clock since tiny grains of the mineral were trapped in the deposit when the mud solidified 20,000 years ago.


    Heated quartz emits light in proportion to the time that has passed since it was last warmed up or exposed to light.


    The next step for Zhang and his colleagues is to further investigate past environmental changes on the Tibetan plateau, as well as the current physical environment.


    "It is the roof of the world with the deepest gorges and highest mountains. It is worth protecting and it may later tell us something more," Zhang told local media.



    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-22-2002).]

  14. Rati: (from another thread, but I couldn't resist bringing it to question here)


    "Neither do I have any objection to calling a spade a spade when it comes to traditions that take their own path apart from that of Suddha Bhakti, like Buddhists and Mayavadis and Bauls."



    Now that I got your attention Rati....

    Could you please explain your schools (Babji line) stance on this. Do you take a similar hard line objection towards Advaitavada and Buddhists as do Gaudiya Math and Iskcon?

    It seems so from the above post, just curious, not gettin on your case baba..


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  15. I am just having a play with words gentlemen.

    But I do like and prefer to meditate alone in solitide.

    Group energy can be helpful to beginners and to communities I guess on some level.


    But I..


    'Go the Place where Noone Goes'


    To the Peaks of Inner Solitude away from the group madness called 'dogma'...

    away yes away into stillness, quitetude...advaitavadin suchness and orange light what delight ;^)


    Yea that's the ticket.


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-16-2002).]

  16. Originally posted by Rati:

    Meditation is not actually a group practice anyways, so there would be no loss by dropping out and doing your meditation in solitude. The group practice that the followers of Bhagavad Gita engage in is congregational chanting of the holy names or sankirtana. The meditation practiced is either chanting mantras silently while counting on a string of wooden beads or visualization of the Supreme Lord's divine sports or lila. For beginners only the mantra meditation is recommended.


    Based on you comments, it does not seem that this particular group of Buddhists has much integrity anyways.



    [This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-16-2002).]

    There are many nice buddhists sanghas where people participate in group meditations. And yes group meditations have been a part of buddhism for a long time..that is what the sanga is all about! ust look at the Tai Forest Meditation traditions.

    It does sound like the group you are with is controlling and perhaps unhealthy I agree with Ratijiwala on this.


    Lesson learned..move on,


    I would recommend looking for a group that people drop in as they please and run when people ask you weird questions about your personal life!


    I personally like my own solitude in meditation so if I screech out in bliss I won't disturb anyone. Posted Image

    But really.. I do like my own private meditation as I tend to be a bit unorthodox and incorporate a blend of esoteric practices to reach a frenzied state which might possibly scare the general public!


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-16-2002).]

  17. Originally posted by Rati:

    Jijaji: That is actually a question for the Babajis themselves. I am actually just an ordinary householder. When I interviewed various sadhus that are in various lines of the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya, I did not ask about that topic, as I was more interested in the doctrines and practices of the Gaudiyas themselves. My guess would be that mixing in doctrines from other schools would be considered rasa-abhasa, so to speak. Whether they openly attack any outsiders is another question. I had not personally witnessed any of that going on.


    I would have to defer to Jagat and Premananda, as they have considerable more experience than myself when it comes to the Babajis.


    [This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-16-2002).]

    I see but in your posting I noticed YOU implying it being ok when "calling a spade a spade" regarding mayavadis, buddhists.

    Could you please explain what exactly you mean by this 'calling a spade a spade'

    It certainly doesn't sound sympathetic.


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  18. Originally posted by Avinash:

    Gautama buddha,saw his philosophy as an appendage to vedic dharma,not as a seperate religion.


    Then, why did he oppose vedic rituals? Also, I think that Mahayana philosophy is very much different from what Buddha taught.

    True the Mahayana was the outcome of Buddhism incorporating local faiths as it spread mainly outside India. Such as in Tibet Buddhism being a hybred of the Old 'Bon' religion mixed with Buddhism. When Buddhism spread to China from India it mixed with Taoism which was the origins of the chinese 'Chan' school of Buddhism. Futher we can see this development of Mahayana extending to Japan, thus the Chinese 'Chan' became the Japanese Zen.

    All this development and spread is Mahayana, The Theravada tradition is considered much older and to be the source of the later 'Mahayana'school.

    The Thervada schools primany method of practice is meditation 'vipassana' which is considered by the Theravada school to be the Buddhas most noteworthy contribution to humanity.


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    [This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-16-2002).]

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