jijaji

Originally posted by Shashi:

JijaJi I am not knowing who is this Kerouac fellow but I am thinking he must be wrong. I am being told that the highest a bear can becoming is Yogi.

 

 

He He Lol

Originally posted by raga:

They have the ego of "I am dropping my ego". That's all. The ego is, "We know what is the real meaning of being spiritual, we know it's all about dropping the ego."

 

> That is just a generalization of others outside your system who see things different from you. I personally canot stand how some people can make such broad sweeping statements, very indicative of a 'Us & Them ' mentality....

 

The fact that you exist means you have an ego. You know this bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca ahankara iti 'yam me bhinna prakrtir astadha thing.

 

> Disagree..in many spiritual groups the 'EGO' is seen as that which is given to you by the 'Mind' it serves ourselves up as being more than we are, kind of a 'LIE' we believe about ourselves. I'm this important attorney, I'm a great actress, I am a wonderful politician etc..

We are sac-cit-ananda eternally. The 'Persona' we assume to function in this temporary relm is the 'EGO'..devotees have referred to it as 'False Ego' which is a fine discription as far as I am concerned.

 

To find proper application for this ego, that is the question. The point is you can not just leave your self of identity. Even if you think individuality has no basis in reality.

 

> Unture....you drop the 'False Ego' and your 'True Self' begins to shine forth....not all at once, it takes time.

But it seems you need to go back to some basic understandings of spirituality dude!

 

And anyway most of the folks who say "individuality is false" don't live up to it, nor do they really intend to live up to it. It is just a part of their ego "I am spiritual".

 

> Again another 'SWEEPING STATEMENT' about those others....you don't know, or maybe I am wrong perhaps you HAVE gone around met with them all and watched them in there daily lives...

 

You have siddha-pranali..thats great, but you should drop your generalizations of others outside your limited sect and understand that you can be initiated into the most secret of all practices and be given mystical indications of what your spiritual body is like, but if you have not learned how to love and respect others outside your camp...your a 'dime a dozen' religious fanatic like any 'Bible Thumpin, Salivating Street Corner Preacher' even if you think your diksha has connected you to 'Ocean of Prem' itself.

 

This I have seen with 'MY' own eyes...

 

 

 

 

quote:

And, given that ego is there for everyone, I think let us just learn to live with it and be happy.

jijaji:

What a totally UN-SPIRITUAL thing to say...sorry but eastern teachings from pretty much any school teaches to 'Drop The Ego'

strange...

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-02-2002).]

raga..

don't worry about trying to control where the thread goes..people will say what they want and sometimes topics go off track and re-surface..

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-02-2002).]

quote:

Well, that's true. It is natural to consider one's own choice of spirituality to be of the highest quality.

jijaji:

It is EGO alone that makes one think that their spirituality is above all others ..EGO ALONE.

Everyone wants to be on the Top Winning Team..the EGO wants ONLY to be with the'HIGHEST TEACHINGS' etc..

Another trap of the mind I say..!

"Oh but our practice is the 'YUGA DHARMA'

quote:

No, seriously -- I recall hearing Prithu Das once explain how Jesus displayed asta-sattvika-bhavas, he'd read it in the Bible somewhere, about the different ecstacies of Jesus.

jijaji:

yea right..

quote:

To summarize, this practice is for those who want to do it. It is not to be advocated as a program of global salvation.

jijaji:

So whats your recommendation for the rest of the planet? Certainly spirituality is needed more than ever in these times, what do you suggest..?

Some quotes from "On the Road"

by Jack Kerouac..

"The one thing we yearn for in our living days, that makes us sigh and groan and undergo sweet nauseas of all kinds, is the rememberance of some lost bliss that was probably experienced in the womb and can only be reproduced at death".

"I like too many things and get all confused and hung up running from one falling star to another till I drop. This is the night, what It does to you. I had nothing to offer anybody but my own confusion".

"Mankind will someday realize that we actually are in constant contact with the dead and with the other world, whatever it is".

"It was remarkable how Dean could go mad and then suddenly continue with his soul -- which I think is wrapped up in a fast car, a coast to reach, and a woman at the end of the road -- calmly and sanely as though nothing had happened."

"...and in Iowa I know by now the children must be crying in the land where they let the children cry, and tonight the stars'll be out, and don't you know that God is Pooh Bear?"

Speak to us now of religion

by Kahlil Gibran

And they said to him, speak to us now of religion, and he responded:

Have I spoken this day of ought else?

Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,

And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?

Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupation?

Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body.?"

Your daily life is your temple and your religion. Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.

And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.

Rather, look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.

And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.

You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in the trees.

The Instruction to the Kalamas

Translated from the Pali

by Soma Thera

The Kalamas of Kesaputta go to see the Buddha

1. I heard thus. Once the Blessed One, while wandering in the Kosala country with a large community of bhikkhus, entered a town

of the Kalama people called Kesaputta.

2. Then the Kalamas who were inhabitants of Kesaputta went to where the Blessed One was. On arriving there some paid homage to

him and sat down on one side; some exchanged greetings with him and after the ending of cordial memorable talk, sat down on one side; some saluted him raising their joined palms and sat down on one side; some announced their name and family and sat down on one side; some without speaking, sat down on one side.

The Kalamas of Kesaputta ask for guidance from the Buddha

3. The Kalamas who were inhabitants of Kesaputta sitting on one side said to the Blessed One: "There are some monks and brahmins, venerable sir, who visit Kesaputta. They expound and explain only

their own doctrines; the doctrines of others they despise, revile, and pull to pieces. Some other monks and brahmins too, venerable sir, come to Kesaputta. They also expound and explain only their own doctrines; the doctrines of others they despise, revile, and pull to pieces. Venerable sir, there is doubt, there is

uncertainty in us concerning them. Which of these reverend monks and brahmins spoke the truth and which falsehood?"

The criterion for rejection

4. "It is proper for you, Kalamas, to doubt, to be uncertain; uncertainty has arisen in you about what is doubtful. Come,

Kalamas. Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.' Kalamas, when you

yourselves know: 'These things are bad; these things are blamable; these things are censured by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to harm and ill,' abandon them.

Do I need a teacher in order to go forward in the spiritual life?

Good friends and experienced mentors can be very helpful. Be open to the influence of others, but not overly dependent on them. It is always healthy to maintain a certain amount of critical judgment for yourself.

Lama Surya Das

How can you see in a seed the flowers that will come one day years later down the road?

What if you are a Rose and not the Lotus that is expected?

Johannes Wolfgang von Goethe said.."All theory, dear friend is grey. But the golden tree of actual life springs ever green."

The Buddha said.."Be a Light Unto Yourself"

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-01-2002).]

Originally posted by Shashi:

Jijaji I am wandering is not the avoidance of the rituals itself a discipline also?

 

 

Seems likely, like the method of dropping all methods huh?

The Baul word for God is adhar manush, the essential man. He worships man. He says, inside you and me, inside everybody, there is an essential being. That essential being is all. To find that adhar manush, that essential man, is the whole search.

To reach to the essential man, you have to go through the spontaneous man.

Spontaneity is the only way to reach to the essence...

The Baul is not in any way controlled and disciplined. Bauls knows no rituals. They are against rituals because....

"A ritualized person is a dead person."

He cannot be spontaneous.

A person who follows rituals, formalities too much, creates so many habits around him that there is no need to be alert. Alertness is lost & habits are formed. Then the man of rituals lives through habits.

Bauls don't follow any ritual, they don't have any technique, they don't have any habit. No two Bauls that are similar; they are individuals.

And that's what real spirituality really is: it is an individual approach towards truth.

According to 'Baulism' which is very similar to the 'Hippy Movement's'.....

'Bagism' or 'Shagism'...

You gotta to go it alone, try to find your own unique groove, your own vibe! You cannot follow another, you cannot move on a ready-made track.

The more you search your own way, the closer you will be to God, or to truth, or to reality.

At least this is the 'Baul 'Perspective...

No..I'm not a 'Baul'....

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-01-2002).]

quote:

Have you thought, my friend, where are you going to spend your eternity ?

jijaji:

Funny indeed... I remember seeing that exact question on a little fundy christian hand-out given to me one time.

On the inside of this hand-out it explained how if I didn't accept their terms of eternity (christ being the ONLY way the truth the light etc)..

I would be thrown into a lake of fire! They had the quotes and everything from their scripture(The Bible)to prove it..

I was caught in a predicament...

so...

I ran away laughing as fast as I could..

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-01-2002).]

The whole idea of someone (guru) confirming upon you your secret inner eternal self by following an outline given by the school they belong to seems questionable to me.

How can someone know the inner recesses of your eternal being by following a template of sorts?

Also to answer someones question from before...

A similar type of siddha-pranali that is given in Gaudiya Vaishnavism is seen to be offered to sadhakas of other sects within sanatan dharma. The Shaivites in some sects in S.India offer a similar kind of 'Siddha Deha' in which one becomes identified with leela of Shiva, it is seen in some shakta sects as well.

and if anyone is interested...

I for one do NOT want to spend eternity as a gopi in a sari collecting flowers or making garlands.

Just like I don't want to spend eternity doing the 'Stations of the Cross'...

Yea...

I don't know about all that either..

maybe I pulled the trigger a little too quickly on that one..

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-28-2002).]

Originally posted by Bhaktavasya:

Oh sure, blame it on the ganja!

 

 

I'm Busted...

Ratiji,

I do have devotion to Ma Kali I admit

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

Originally posted by jijaji:

I re-read through much of this and wanted to retract my statements ..much of it I question me-self

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

It was late at night guys..forgive if I went too far over the edge, could have been that strong ganja I was tokin on while typin!

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

Yea..

Make everyone in the world into Gaudiya Vaishnavas, a scarry way to think.

Of course you did include that people could get involved in Vedanta in the early on stages, but I am sure the Vedanta school would see that scenario much differently!

They see Bhakti as a means to unqualified Brahman realization....

What if they stuck with that angle and didn't want to move on to the Bhakti and started telling you that Brahman realization was the goal of Bhakti..?

What then..?

the endlessness of it all...!

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]

jnds:

Thus Jijaji's argument that organizations don't become realized is just stupid.

jijaji:

No it's not..just the 'Truth" show me ONE organization where all the members become realized ?? None.

Realization HAPPENS to individuals ONLY..and if I AM wrong...

show me proof..

I can show you proof of individuals becoming realized...

Name some groups who have or organizations..?

A sanga is just a group that comes together under the same belief a communities of sorts, doesn't mean everyone who joins becomes enlightened!

I re-read through much of this and wanted to retract my statements ..much of it I question me-self

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-26-2002).]