madhav

dear ram ji, thanks for your encouragement. it really feels good when some one understands you. when i start writing, i won't be able to come here for long till i finish it.

dear shashi bhai, thanks for the explanation. i do not know what to say. may try picking anoher user name and possibly another e-mail address. should work, but i cannot say for sure. any way, if nothing works, then come as guest. i would get used to it.

sardar JS ji, please write original words in original language perhaps i could read it if it is hindi. to others for info: kabir was an advaiti saint who tried to mix islam and sahantana dharma. he rejected moorti pooja. he did not start any sampradaya, but his followers started it which is called kabir panth (path). they are called bhaktaas. the swaminarayans are forbidden to sing kabir's bhajans by their guru sri sahajanda swami. the reason is advaita sadhana is not compatible with bhakti. one needs to stick with one path only (and respect others). so, how the bkahtas will fight terrorism?

so, when the islamists have jihad against all the kafirs of the world, how the advisits would fight terrorism? same question for dvaitis (i.e. vaishnavas), shivites, shaktas, etc.? should they fight with untity? or should they fight or debate within to prove their philosophy or sdadhana is better? should they say, "everybody, join our sampradaya, and then only we can fight?" i request that if you do not mind, please put your answer like: as a advaiti (or dvaiti, etc.) i should fight like a kshatriya (or barhmana, etc.) i could fight non violently in .... manner.

I see that most of you above want me to stay here. One said i was spamming "Guest" to pick a user name. i thought I was responding to different persons. and did not realize that more than one such message would be considered as spamming. now i do. i also noticed that some do not use a user name but sign with a name. so i wonder why they cannot use that name as a user name. any way, it is their choice, not mine. but for me it is really easy when i know to whom i am talking, at least a user name. the other thing is that i am not a good typist. so, there may be some misspellings, etc. and i request the reader would try to get the message, rather than distort a message or mis read it. (the asuras however, come in disguise or openly and make all kinds of problems of forums.) i am not here to disturb any one. the islam terrorists are disturbing the whole world. this is very serious for the sanatana dharmis of india. i consider HK's sanaana dharmis. their skin color or nationality does not matter. if they worship krishna, they are sanatana dharmis, so i worry about them too. they are very special. when HK's are sanatana dharmis, then i really wish that they do not keep unfriendly attitude towards 1B sanatana dharmis of india. so, i came to talk about it how it could be done. i just started talking, and i felt no one has even interest to just let me finish to find out what really i am trying to say. i am not imposing anything, no one can. but at least if you please get my whole argument, then you have something to think and decide or talk about. at least you would know how other millions think about the issue. so i just started by giving one point at a time. and you know what happened. so, if the forum controllers and visitors have interest to get the whole story from me, then i would be pleased to give it. let me know (yes or no). what i would do now is write a whole article and present it here. it could be 2-3 pages long or more. or i could post it on a web page and provide its link also. sanatana dharma puts a lot of importance on truth. - satyam eva jayate - satyam vada - asato ma sat gamaya - satyam param dhi mahi - etc. so, when a truth (fact) is evident like a dime in hand is evident, then there is no need to rely any one else other than your own firsthand knowledge and buddhi. when one cannot see the truth or figure out, then one may need othrer's (like a guru's or sadhu's or shastra's) help. just because one has a guru, it does not mean one must give up checking the facts and concluding from it using god given buddhi. Let me know if any of you could agree to this. also, i do not know any one here and no one knows me here too. what we see is the posts and messages only. other thing, i do not use bad words, do not ridicule any one, i try to talk about the point, thought, concept, fact, and not person. i do not get angry, and if i feel my point/argument is valid and rational, then i do not give up. if i make a mistake, i say sorry. am i missing any other good manner?

dear sanatana dharmis, i need to say good bye. i wish you all K C. if any of my writing offended any one, then it was not inteded. so please forgive me if you can. i am not offended by any one. most of you are very good devotees, some perhaps are goswamis i think. to the forum controllers i have one suggestion: for the benefit of new comers, please post some rules upfront letting them know what are the limits of discussion here. then if you see some rule is violated, then remind the poster at least a couple of times and give chance to correct him/her self. your web and forum are very good. i wish you success in your mission.

>>I personally feel that Advaita is a valid philosophy but tough to understand. Just because we do not understand it, it does not become wrong or invalid.<< Gita 12.1 arjuna uvaca evam satata-yukta ye bhaktas tvam paryupasate ye capy aksharam avyaktam tesham ke yoga-vittamah TRANSLATION Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested? ------------------- so yes, advaita is a valid path. for some it is hard to understand and it really could confuse some dvaitis. so , the best way is that one stick with one sadhana. ----- thanks for giving correct info about meera's guru. current time is such dangerous for all the vedic people (HK's included) that it is really not smart to argue dvaita-advaita or this vs that sampradaya. unity is needed when the non-vedic enemy is at the door.

>>I personally feel that Advaita is a valid philosophy but tough to understand. Just because we do not understand it, it does not become wrong or invalid.<< Gita 12.1 arjuna uvaca evam satata-yukta ye bhaktas tvam paryupasate ye capy aksharam avyaktam tesham ke yoga-vittamah TRANSLATION Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested? ------------------- so yes, advaita is a valid path. for some it is hard to understand and it really could confuse some dvaitis. so , the best way is that one stick with one sadhana. ----- thanks for giving correct info about meera's guru. current time is such dangerous for all the vedic people (HK's included) that it is really not smart to argue dvaita-advaita or this vs that sampradaya. unity is needed when the non-vedic enemy is at the door.

>>May I ask under whose guidance you have practiced Krishna conciousness? Who are the guru, sadhus you follow? Who is the spiritual master to whom you surrender? << Babhru das and bigot prabhu asked me above. what i see is that when there is no rational argument to refute points raised, some start personal attacks. they ask all personal questions, then they get reasons to say, "this guy is usless or fool or sinner or demon or advaiti or deluded, etc." i am not ashmed of my guru or my sadhana, but when those who cannot judge the truth and rationale as presented from the bottom of the heart, and they are hoojed up to certain concept, they start digging personal information to attack. the politicians do it all the times. i am not a politician. i am just a small krishna devotee. even if i say my guru is prabhupada, then HKs' would say, "then just think as we think, no new thinking." the this is no differet than what xians or muslims say. santana dharam and the vedic culure has produced many many great aacharyas like sri prabhupada. HK's know just him and a few more. see, even within HK's there are factions i do not know how many. why so? realiztion of truth is not any one person's or one sampradayas' monopoly. sanatana dharma gives one full freedom to seek truth. no other religion gives that much freedom. those who are not free to question and are not willing to understand others point cannot learn new thing. this is obviously evident if you see how islam has progressed if any. xians say, "jesus is the only way, and we will make you follow him." muslims say, "allah is the only way, and we will make you follow him." the vedic people sanatana dharmais say, "all is free to find god in their own way, but never bother any one else who is on his chosen path that is different from yours." now here the attitude from some i see is: "prabhuapada's is the only way. no need for checking gurus, sadhus, shastras, and facts and rational arguments from any one. what prabhupada said is the only truth, he has monopoly on truth." never forget that upanishads are nothing but dialogues, questions to guru by disciple. even gita is a dialogue. krishna did not threat arjun. truth cannot be concealed by simply throwing out a source.

dear Vaishnava_das108 goswami, this dvaita-advaita debate has no priority at this time when the demons are up and active right under our nose but in disguise. as a vaishanv, when some one starts this debate (perticularly to divide and conquer) i tell this: "after the great advaiti sri shakaraharya, there came five great vaishnav (dvaiti) aacharyas who refuted advait argument by debating it fully in public with the highest advaita authorities of their times. all these arguments and counter arguments are recorded. so, why you and me, the tiny advitis and dvaitis who are at bottom spiritual level, need to debate it again? why not take the conclusion of the giants' debates and live by it? why not you faithfully do advaita sadhana, and i do dvaita sadhana and both get our final destination? when we reach there, we would know where you, i, and god are, and our argument will end. till then i wish you success in your sadhana. would you not wish me success in my sadhana?" this outlook will help the vedic people a lot when now the real danger is from the demoiniacs. sure there is unity at the super-most level, why not unite at some lower level too? every one in afamily fights somewhat with other family member more or less, but when an outsider demon comes to fight or finish the family, then the family is united, has to unite. even devas and danavas united for necter and churned the ocean. the demoinacs do not want us to unite. do we want to help them by remaining divided and get defeated/killed?

dear Vaishnava_das108 goswami, this dvaita-advaita debate has no priority at this time when the demons are up and active right under our nose but in disguise. as a vaishanv, when some one starts this debate (perticularly to divide and conquer) i tell this: "after the great advaiti sri shakaraharya, there came five great vaishnav (dvaiti) aacharyas who refuted advait argument by debating it fully in public with the highest advaita authorities of their times. all these arguments and counter arguments are recorded. so, why you and me, the tiny advitis and dvaitis who are at bottom spiritual level, need to debate it again? why not take the conclusion of the giants' debates and live by it? why not you faithfully do advaita sadhana, and i do dvaita sadhana and both get our final destination? when we reach there, we would know where you, i, and god are, and our argument will end. till then i wish you success in your sadhana. would you not wish me success in my sadhana?" this outlook will help the vedic people a lot when now the real danger is from the demoiniacs. sure there is unity at the super-most level, why not unite at some lower level too? every one in afamily fights somewhat with other family member more or less, but when an outsider demon comes to fight or finish the family, then the family is united, has to unite. even devas and danavas united for necter and churned the ocean. the demoinacs do not want us to unite. do we want to help them by remaining divided and get defeated/killed?

sanatana dharma (Hinduism) says we all are souls, different from each other but are same in god, the supreme person (dvaita or vaishnavism) or in brahman (advaita). because each is an individual with his gunas, karmas, samskaras, more or less ignorance, each will differ with oher, more or less. krishna says (gita 18.61); ishvarah sarva bhUtAnAm hridesherjuna thishthati brAmayan sarva bhUtAni yantrArUdhAni mAyayA actually it is the prikitri (maya) that does it, not the Isvara (God), but prakitri is working under the direction of God. Therefore Krishna says it so. the riddle of god in the material world for humans to solve is to realize god by any one of the ways krishna recommends in gita. once god is realized unity can be seen and experienced. till then, no one shpuld pretend all are one. petenders delude others more and do more harm than good.

bhagabad gita is 700 verse summary of the vedas (80,000 verses). it is the book of Hinduism (sanatana dharma, which includes vaishnavism) gita (krishna) talks about: - gyan yoga which is suitble for people with sharp inteligence and who think god has no form. - karma yoga which is for people with a lot of energy to do something. they are doers. - bhakti yoga (vaishnavism) for those who are people of heart/feelings full of loving capacity. - dhyan yoga is for people who want to use mind conrol to realize god - there is more. so if you cannot figure what is your strength asset, you may need a guru to help you figure what path is right for you. once you pick a path, stick with it. changing paths often does not help. this is like there are many wasy to go from NY to Chicago, they are different. one goes east and one west, or north and south. some are better than other; it all depends upon where you are and what asset you have to travel. what krishna talks is spiritual science. it is not a set of beliefs, but spiritual truths. one nay not understand some, but if followed, one gets the result. best wishes for your journey. Bhagavdvad Git As It Is, is a good start, excellent start. if you like it, look for no more.

oh i admire, revere prabhupada. however, i am attempting to clarify some issues. once my points (all not stated yet) are understood, it would not stop his mission but would expand it with a lot of support from the suras. all i pray to krishna is that may he give open mind to the readers till they get all my points (only a few they are).

>>Unfortunatly it seems as though there has been a divorce in the family of God and the playground of this earth is where his anxiety and hostility is being vented.<< Sure, and this conflict between divine and demoniac is alwasy there and will be in material worlds. Therefore, krishna's messge in gita (the Book of Hinduism) includes the message that one needs to fight adharma internally as well as externally. Arjun prepared to fight, but out of compassion changed his mind lamenting. Krishna said, "Fight, man." when US tested first atomic bomb, the manhatten program mamager mr. oppenheimer did not find words in xian or other scriptuer to describe the bamb exlposion. he found words in gita where krishna says, "kAlo'ham kokakshyakrit pravruddho.." (TIME I AM, THE DESTROYER..) if conflict's (violent or non violent) are unavoidable, then the only thing remains for one to decide is which side one wants to be, suras or asuras, divine or demoniacs. of course one can take no side, even of suras, and the asuras will not spare him/her if they win. suras will, if they win. regarding non violent fight, sri prabhupada was a figher, yes, a fierce intellectual fighter. see how many times he has debated like a valient soldier and never has lost an argument with any one.

jatasyahi dhruvr mrityu... this prison house needs more vaishnavas. may krishna help us all to fill the gaps due to any depatures.

thanks for clarification. do you buy all that he (abcd man) said in the article, Anand ji? first thing i noticed about abcd man was that he thinks swaminarayns are advaitis. they are not. they are vaishnavas in the line of sri sampradaya (however sri sampradaya do not recognize them). although they do not tell they are vaishnavas, they tell they are swaminarayans. then i noticed that he is talented with music and ragas. these ragas are compsoed by rishis of sanatana dharma (vedic culture). some day he will give credit to rishsi. then i saw that he saw some hindus he came in contact with are malpraticing hinduism. rather than blaming individual malpracticeners, he blamed hinduism or all hindus. this abcd young man did not get chance (as many others) to know the psoitive side of hindus or hinduism. this is the price the hindus pay when they live in western countries. school/college home work is so much and sometimes nonsense un-educational that it saps al lot of time of the students. then the TV and nintendo/videos take up a lot of time. there is hardly any time left for learning gita or hinduism. consequently one does not know what cultural herigage one has got. some parents themselved donot know what hinduism really is. so their children also do not know it. it is very fortunate that abcd finally got krishna bhakti. but still he hates his mother culture - hinduism/hindus. hope it will change with time, with krishna's mercy.

i do not see intelligence when some one preaches like you preach to the victims of aggressors and not to the aggressoros. please take appointment with bin laden and party to enlighten them. i assume you are not one of them.

>>so that we can associate with the pious and Godly (sat-sanga) and avoid the association of materialists (jana-sanga).<< yes, avoid untill one has conquered one's senses and has become a goswami. there after a goswami helps the demoniac people to become godly. no need to waste much time with people who already are godly. bin laden and party need help even though they do not know it. the expertize of the demoniacs is to instantly separate the souls from the bodies of kafirs (vaishnvas included). in contrast, the expertize of the goswamis is to separarate the souls from maya (illusion). the difficulty is, most goswamis cannot do this separation instantly. it talke months or years. kshatriyas vaishnavas however can. so who wins in critical time, a goswami or a demoniac? do the ksnatriyas not deserve blessings from goswamis?

yes. krishna says: manushyANAm sahastreshu sashchid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhAnAm kashchin mAm vetti tatvatah - Gita 7.3

>>By the way, how old is everyone here? << The poster would feel comfprtagle to answer this when you please pick a username. it does not hurt. age however is not important in my view. sanatkumaras are always 5 year old children, but are muktas. sri ramanujacharay was only a 12 year old when he defeated a great mayawadi scholar in debate. sripad shankaracharya finished his mission just in 32 years. truth does not dininish its value even when it comes from a tiny source. maya however makes most people to ignore tiny sources of truth or dharma. one can be old bodily but child mentally and vice veras. from the perspactive of the hindus (vaishnavas included,) we all are very old, eternal.

>>If you still think Krishna is speaking of external oneness, then try to milk the brahmana and receive spiritual advice from the cow. That is blindness, not equal vision.<< Jai! :-)

Jai Sri Rama, bhai. we need more dhiras like you on forums. pranam!

>>And yes, all religions are the same. All the main ones at least (i.e. Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) praise some form of God << so their forms differ, their charcteristicns differ, their messge differ. >>and stress development of personal character to attain higher levels of existence. << these levels differ, concept of haven differ, how to got hven that differ, what one gets in hven differ, why one whousl got o hven that differ. consequently the character they develops differs. >>Whether or not the followers of those religions interpret these religions correctly is a different matter. << are you able tointerpert various religions' Books? then please go preach bin laden and party. the hindus (vaishnvas included) are the victims of these agressoris for 1000 years. >>That is why you have extremists and missionaries in ALL religions (including Hinduism). << Hindu missionaries who go door to door? Hindu missionaries converted people porcibly? Hindus invade other counries by sword? are you taking of Hindus or Muslims? >Hindus were just as crude to the Islamic during the years of the attainment of independence. << so, that is why they partitioned their home land? Would USA partition country if CA says they want independence becaue they are muslims? what you know of hindu cruelty please share it here. what is your source of such information please? would you like to know authorative sources for howning hindu muslim cruelty? who did attack akshardham and raghunath temple or WTC recently?

>>'Vaisnava', which literally and naturally means one who worships Vishnu out of pure love expecting nothing from Him in return.<< very true. and these worshippers come from varnsrama dharmis or sanatana dharmis or Hindus. bharat is the land of origin of vaishnavism because it is the land of sanatana dharmis. ask any one, "who says vishnu is god?" the answer you will get is, "Hindus". all hindus are not vaishnavas, all vaishnavas are hindus.