HerServant

I posted this thread elsewhere in the forum, but I am also posting here as I realized as I concluded writing, Achintya beda beda tattva self realization taught in the Bible. PAMHO. Thank you for your wonderful post. We see here that our true identity can only be known in relationship to the (revealed) Lord. The Lord's revealed names and forms, nama-rupa, are realized by the devotees according to His Mercy. That is, the true hearing of His Name is also the realized seeing of His Form. We are limited and He is unlimited so the Lord (unless as in the case of Arjuna) is not revealing everything all at once (revealing His universal form). He shows us something of Himself in nama-rupa, He decides what we will hear and what we will see. If the Lord reveals as One Who Rules (Master) then devotee automatically understands himself as servant of the Master. This is "self realization" .. seeing oneself in relationship to the Lord. The servant of the One Who Rules, understands that seeing the Lord Reign over everything is far better than seeing the Lord's immovable aspect in himself (the devotee). This is an example of the devotee's automatic realization of Achintya beda beda tattva .. simultaneously oneness and difference. That is, some quality of the Lord's personality is also seen within oneself. The difference is that this aspect not comparable to worshipping the Lord in the revealed form that reveals the "same" aspect. Perhaps a way to explain is that some aspect of the Lord's personality, as revealed within the consciousness of the devotee, though unimaginable is explainable, while "identical quality" in the Lord is incomprehensible and inexplicable. Or maybe better, the quality in the devotee is a like a jewel that is identical to a jewel in the Crown on the Head of the Lord. The Jewel in the Lord's Crown is in His Crown ON His Head, and capturing/transmitting all the rays of Light radiating from the Lord. The jewels are the same but different. Sashtra teaches that in nama rupa, the Lord reveals His various qualities, and these then are sung by devotees in hymns to His (revealed) name. We also understand then that the revealed Names were/are the revealed Forms realized by the devotees (saddhus). Now this tells us a great deal about the reasoning behind getting/giving initiated names. Prior to our own self realization, our initiation name is something like a promised identity. We receive this identity along with the hope, faith and prayers of our spiritual masters and in some cases our parents, that we can realize our true self and our true purpose (to know, to love and to serve God). But our real name of initiation comes at this time: As KRSNa says, that sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja [bg. 18.66]. Then He will reveal Himself, sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH. He'll reveal yourself. Even so, we know that God is unsearchable and unlimited and ever revealing. Therefore, we will not completely understand ourselves as He means for us to understand until such time as we are with Him eternally. "Beloved, we are God's children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." - 1st John 3:2

PAMHO. Thank you for your wonderful post. We see here that our true identity can only be known in relationship to the (revealed) Lord. The Lord's revealed names and forms, nama-rupa, are realized by the devotees according to His Mercy. That is, the true hearing of His Name is also the realized seeing of His Form. We are limited and He is unlimited so the Lord (unless as in the case of Arjuna) is not revealing everything all at once (revealing His universal form). He shows us something of Himself in nama-rupa, He decides what we will hear and what we will see. If the Lord reveals as One Who Rules (Master) then devotee automatically understands himself as servant of the Master. This is "self realization" .. seeing oneself in relationship to the Lord. The servant of the One Who Rules, understands that seeing the Lord Reign over everything is far better than seeing the Lord's immovable aspect in himself (the devotee). This is an example of the devotee's automatic realization of Achintya beda beda tattva .. simultaneously oneness and difference. That is, some quality of the Lord's personality is also seen within oneself. The difference is that this aspect not comparable to worshipping the Lord in the revealed form that reveals the "same" aspect. Perhaps a way to explain is that some aspect of the Lord's personality, as revealed within the consciousness of the devotee, though unimaginable is explainable, while "identical quality" in the Lord is incomprehensible and inexplicable. Or maybe better, the quality in the devotee is a like a jewel that is identical to a jewel in the Crown on the Head of the Lord. The Jewel in the Lord's Crown is in His Crown ON His Head, and capturing/transmitting all the rays of Light radiating from the Lord. The jewels are the same but different. Sashtra teaches that in nama rupa, the Lord reveals His various qualities, and these then are sung by devotees in hymns to His (revealed) name. We also understand then that the revealed Names were/are the revealed Forms realized by the devotees (saddhus). Now this tells us a great deal about the reasoning behind getting/giving initiated names. Prior to our own self realization, our initiation name is something like a promised identity. We receive this identity along with the hope, faith and prayers of our spiritual masters and in some cases our parents, that we can realize our true self and our true purpose (to know, to love and to serve God). But our real name of initiation comes at this time: As KRSNa says, that sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM zaraNaM vraja [bg. 18.66]. Then He will reveal Himself, sevonmukhe hi jihvAdau svayam eva sphuraty adaH. He'll reveal yourself. Even so, we know that God is unsearchable and unlimited and ever revealing. Therefore, we will not completely understand ourselves as He means for us to understand until such time as we are with Him eternally. "Beloved, we are God's children now; what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." - 1st John 3:2

"A Little Princess" sounds like a "chick flick" for children, but it is really a 'contemporary' Ramayana. It just so happens that the characters are children and ravana a nasty schoolmaster. The trailer does not do this movie any justice .. it is FAR better. Almost anyone (male of female, young or old) will definitely love it! Devotees will see spiritual depth in the movie as well.

A Little Princess http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113670/ This is a kids movie but excellent and features Rama and Sita as well! Here is a review (not mine) quoted from the website link given above:

All glories to Srila Prabhupada and the Gaudiya acharyas who illumine our path with the light of the torch of knowledge ignited by the flame of prema bhakti! As Mahak prabhu pointed out previously, we have so many fundamentalists attacking authentic traditions using their poor fund of knowledge about Jesus. This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. - BG 4:2 Nearly 100% of evangelical christians are not qualified as teachers as these "preachers" are not in the disciplic line of Jesus. Further, the vast majority of christians initiated in Jesus parampara are not qualified to teach as they are not educated in advanced spiritual studies. Preaching and teaching is reserved for the renounced, vowed religious. Even among these there is a crisis of authentic spirituality and real understanding among religious, particularly in the industrialized parts of the world. That is, the phenomenon of terrible fall downs of religious figures is at an all time high, and not restricted to religious sect. We don't need to look far from the tree to find the bad fruit. So we bring authentic realizations to "the assembled vaisnavas" for contemplation and enjoyment. source : http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0142/__P3.HTM There are many meditations in the above verses. In either "Christian" or "Vaisnava" context, meditation on the above will bring us to: His thread indeed! Hari Bol! Love, HerServant and yours

Mahaksadas prabhu, I am just neophyte but I am trying to come and sit at your feet in an authentic way. That is .. I just want to learn and hear everything about Him. By your presentations and your realizations, I am feeling so so enlivened. Please accept and remember, I am never desirous of presenting from a sectarian perspective .. but rather as one brother living in one cave and finding his brother living in another. In that sense, I am trying to be a naked saddhu. We want the 'naked Truth' but we must be willing to strip naked. "Give up all varieties of religion .." This means we give up the external. Therefore, within the social fabric we can still go to temple, or church, whatever, but upon entering those places we enter into the internal. So I am sharing my understanding of the saddhus in Jesus' line with I hope a proper and humble spirit, and always always with all respects to the learned. SesaBalarama is so powerful, no amount of politics will contain His unending hymns of Krsnas Glories. As the Divine Mother proclaimed: "He has shown the strength of His arm, He has scattered the proud in their conceit. He has cast down the mighty from their thrones, And has lifted up the lowly." ys .

Mahak maharaja. PAMHO! Hare Krsna! Your realizations are beatiful as always. Kindly forgive my intrusion. First of all, I accept your presentation and I think your explanation is in fact in line with traditional Christian teaching. I wish to clarify some points though as I think you will find them interesting and perhaps even enlivening. The scriptures of the Vaisnavas carries with it, a fantastic flavor found in no other spiritual writing. All who read with a sincere heart bow down and acknowledge, the spiritual potency of SB, BG, and so on. So any sincere soul approaching, from whatever personal chemistry and background, the Lord will shower graces by reading these scriptures. In this literature, there are detailed scientific explanations of the wonders of God's mystery. Christian texts don't have quite the same flavor in their explanations about the mysteries of God. However there exists some very profound "scientific' depth in the apostolic sampradaya! There is also a very fine point about Christian realization, or more specifically the realization of those in apostolic succession (the catholic communion and the orthodox churches) that needs clarification. To fully understand and appreciate GSS realization in the christian line, we must examine the history and use of the word sacrament. The Latin word Sacrament is the Greek word Mysterium! Holy Mystery -- mysterium (greek) transliteration mustêrion Latinized Mysterium Romans invented the y to transliterate Upsilon and use um Latin ending Anglicized Mystery Latin translation of the word "Mysterium" Sacramentum Latin Rite Anglicization of the word "Sacramentum" Sacrament In the eastern rite and orthodox churches the word sacrament is not in use as much as Divine Mystery, Sacred Mystery. Sacred Mystery does not mean "uknown" or unexplainable within the apostolic communion of christians, rather it is a word to describe the "transcendental effect" of human experience of God. Divine Mystery means the "supernatural phenomena" that is experienced in by the faithful in when in contacting the sacraments/sacramentals. "1667 "Holy Mother Church has, moreover, instituted sacramentals. These are sacred signs which bear a resemblance to the sacraments. They signify effects, particularly of a spiritual nature, which are obtained through the intercession of the Church. By them men are disposed to receive the chief effect of the sacraments, and various occasions in life are rendered holy."[171]" 1670 Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church's prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God."[174] 1674 Besides sacramental liturgy and sacramentals, catechesis must take into account the forms of piety and popular devotions among the faithful. The religious sense of the Christian people has always found expression in various forms of piety surrounding the Church's sacramental life, such as the veneration of relics, visits to sanctuaries, pilgrimages, processions, the stations of the cross, religious dances, the rosary, medals,[178] etc. 1675 These expressions of piety extend the liturgical life of the Church, but do not replace it. They "should be so drawn up that they harmonize with the liturgical seasons, accord with the sacred liturgy, are in some way derived from it and lead the people to it, since in fact the liturgy by its very nature is far superior to any of them."[179] 1676 Pastoral discernment is needed to sustain and support popular piety and, if necessary, to purify and correct the religious sense which underlies these devotions so that the faithful may advance in knowledge of the mystery of Christ.[180] So the sacrament/al and the devotees realizations of God goes together. That relationship between God, the dispensation of His Grace, and the devotee and devotional paraphenalia, is a Sacred Mystery (sacrament). On a personal note, my experiences while chanting maha mantra were clearly understood by me to be sacrament. In some cases realizations/experiences coming through the Vaisnava sampradaya and in others coming through one of the catholic branches, or perhaps both at the same time. To your point, the Vaisnava explanations add great insight and clarity to what exactly Jesus sampradaya is teaching. However, I am both amazed but also not amazed that, as I interpret, there is no conflict. It would be interesting to hear your perspective on the bold text highlights above. If I am not mistaken, the church teaching is saying that the effect (the transmission of spiritual grace to devotee) via devotional paraphenalia (e.g. japa bead, incense, incense, devotions, bhajans, etc.) are transmitted from God to devotees through the unbroken parampara and the merits/sacrifices of its saddhus. This seems to be a very GSS centric thought.

"Under an impenetrable veil he hides all that can draw upon him the esteem of men."

Here is another Holy Yusif that I found

The Supreme Lord said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most secret wisdom, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.-- BG 9:1 Purport (excerpt) ""Knowledge (idam jnanam) refers to pure devotional service, which consists of nine different activities: hearing, chanting, remembering, serving, worshiping, praying, obeying, maintaining friendship and surrendering everything."" Bible says why man is in his condition of darkness: For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods.."-- Genesis 3:5 Envy of God, the desire to be a god independent of the Supreme Lord, is the original sin described in Genesis. Jesus gives the sloka for realizing the most confidential knowledge: "Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God." - Matt 5:8 Peace.

I have no doubt.

Haribol! It is so good to be here with you! There at the foot of the cross the young one wept uncontrollable torrents of tears while every muscle in his body at once collapsed under mountains helplessness and grief, but the Holy Mother caught him from falling, .. She held him and comforted him, .. She rescued him as a mother would rescue her most tender child sheltering the youngest from the greatest sorrow. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son." Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. - John 19:26-27

"While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises. From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool." Bhagavad Gita 2:62-3 "They said this to test him, so that they could have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with his finger. But when they continued asking him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." - John 8:6-7

Saint Joseph Model of Faith -- (from traditional St. Joseph Novena Prayer) 'The words of the great Apostle: "The just man liveth by faith", may be applied particularly to Saint Joseph (Yusif), who was the most just of men and whose life was ever guided by faith. Joseph submitted his intelligence to the holy truths of religion. He applied his heart from his tenderest infancy to the observance of the divine precepts. In the trials and sorrows of life, Joseph was sustained by faith. He shaped his whole conduct by the desire to please God and he attained the great aim of man upon earth, which is to adore God, to serve Him, and hence to deserve the everlasting Truth. Let us glorify this great Servant of God who possessed a faith so universal, so simple, so enlightened, so firm, so constant, and, above all, so fruitful in good works. Let us examine ourselves with regard to this great virtue and see how we resemble him. Is my faith firm, unshaken? Is my conduct animated by faith? Is the predominant thought that directs my acts to please God, and to obtain merit for everlasting life? Have I tried to derive consolation and strength from the thought of faith in time of trial? Prayer O Great Saint, model of the just living by faith, revive that virtue in our souls. May it be the principle, the motive, the aim of all my actions; my consolation and my strength in the trials of this life, and the source of abundant merit for everlasting life. Amen.

I normally do not read any thread on this forum except the one in which I've been posting, yet, I spontaneously clicked here and read your story. As I read, my tears flowed. Yes there is a reasonable amount of affirmation that Dismas and the Holy Family. So much tradition supports Dismas meeting the Holy Family that it is accepted as true among church fathers and as back into antiquity. Check this out: http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/good_thief.htm This seems to be a good source of information as it is compiled from research/scholarly and in context of bonafide historical traditions. The Gospel of Nicodemus mentions Dismas. This Gospel was quoted frequently by early church fathers and saints and is therefore considered bonafide. "“And Jesus went forth from the Pretorium. And when He had reached the place called Golgotha, the soldiers took off, from Him, His own garment, and girded Him with a linen cloth, and put, upon His Head, a crown of thorns and a reed in His hands; and they crucified with Him two thieves, Dismas on His right hand, and Gestas on His left.”" You can read the Latin translation here: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071c.htm "Consider as true that tradition, which represents the Holy Family as falling into the hands of robbers and owing their deliverance to a young man who was the son of their chief. The legend is that, being on the point of rifling them, he suddenly caught sight of the Divine Infant, resting in His mother’s arms. He was struck with awe on beholding the glorious beauty and majesty of His countenance, and believed at once that He was something more than man, and burning with love, he embraced Him, saying: ‘O most Blessed of children, if ever a time should come when I should crave Thy mercy, remember me and forget not what has passed this day.’" -- De Vita Eremitica, St. Augustine One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal [st. Dismas] rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Luke 23:39-43) The feast of St. Dismas is on 25 March. He is the patron of theives and guardian of many prison ministries.

HOLY SPIRIT: The third divine Person of the Blessed Trinity, the personal love of Father and Son for each other. Also called the Paraclete (Advocate) and Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit is at work with the Father and the Son from the beginning to the completion of the divine plan for our salvation (685; cf. 152, 243). -- http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/glossary.htm#h This is rather interesting. Assuming the Son is Krsna's first expansion, does Vedic literature confirm that the expansion of God as Paramatma is the Loving Exchange between Krsna and Balarama? I think the literal translation of Paraclete (greek - Parakletos) is "Highest summoning" or "above and beyond the highest calling". Sweetness is contemplating that God's love, the very love between Father and Son, is situated within my heart, it is Paramatma, the Paraclete, God's Highest Calling. Blessed Be the Holy Names of the Lord! Hare Krsna! Hare Rama! Jesu Ki Jaya! All praises and glories to Paramatma, the Lord dwelling in our hearts!

As a very young boy, I was taught by my mother and the nuns that the meaning and purpose of life is "To know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him" This teaching is in the children's catechism of Catholics and I think in many other christian protestant denominations. In the Catholic bishops office of catechism we have the following teaching on the meaning of "Happiness" HAPPINESS: Joy and beatitude over receiving the fulfillment of our vocation as creatures: a sharing in the divine nature and the vision of God. God put us into the world to know, love, and serve him, and so come to the happiness of paradise (1720). -- http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/glossary.htm#h It was only last month or so that I realizes that this simple "sloka" is the "nutshell edition" of the 3 margas: Jnana-yoga (know), Bhakti-yoga(love), and Karma-yoga(serve). Hare Krsna!

You're reading my mind. I've been looking for eastern depictions of Jesus. Perfect! Thank you. Also, I've noticed that pre 6th century art of Jesus depicts Him youthful and without beard. There are byzantine mosaics of Him having a blue complexion. Several years ago, I met an relatively well respected Sannyasi (living in India), a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada... we went on a walk together and he told me of his visit to the Holy Land and of this place in the picture (the well) !!! Only in the last week or two did I catch a glimmer of realization of what this loving Sannyasi was communicating. Now you, dear one, are sending me the same. I think I shall strive harder to seek the Lord there and ask Him for a drink! Peace and love. HerServant and yours.

Thank you Lord! The mind and the senses must be conquered but there is no real way to conquer by shear will or austerity. Love of God is the means for mastery of the senses, and this Love for Him is spontaneous and wells up from the heart at His command and by His Grace. This Love we can offer to Him .. we can place this love as a flower at His feet. We can approach His feet and give Him our Love. For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his very mind will be the greatest enemy. - BG 6:6 'and man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' - Matt:10:36 "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined." - Matt 7:24-27 "But I say unto you, love your enemies" - Matt 5:44 Jesus sometimes compares a person to a house, and sometimes a boat, sometimes a plant or tree. These analogies are also universal as they can be found in SB, BG and various other sacred literatures. We can find in all scriptures (BG, Bible, etc.) much evidence that storms and so on often refer to the agitations of the senses and unsteadiness of faith and mind. By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world. - SB 1:2:7 'causeless knowledge' means knowledge beyond logical controversy, i.e. realized knowledge. As soon as I began to meditate upon the lotus feet of the Personality of Godhead with my mind transformed in transcendental love, tears rolled down my eyes, and without delay the Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna appeared on the lotus of my heart. -- SB 1:6:16 The mind is therefore rendered still by Love for God. Here is the same Supreme Personality of Godhead whose transcendental form is experienced by the great devotees who are completely cleansed of material consciousness by dint of rigid devotional service and full control of life and the senses. And that is the only way to purify existence. -- SB 1:10:23 bhakti — by dint of devotional service; utkalita — developed; amala-atmana — those whose minds are thoroughly cleansed; nanu esah — certainly by this only; sattvam — existence; parimarstum — for purifying the mind completely; arhati — deserve Therefore, there is nothing but bhakti than can purify the mind. bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite 'male apasyat purusam purnam mayam ca tad-apasrayam Thus he fixed his mind, perfectly engaging it by linking it in devotional service [bhakti-yoga] without any tinge of materialism, and thus he saw the Absolute Personality of Godhead along with His external energy, which was under full control. -- SB 1:7:4 "He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." - Matt 22:37 bhakti-yogena manasi - Love your enemy (if it obstructs your way to the Lord) HerServant and Yours.

Om Shanti! Peace! The realizations here are actually OUR realizations and are universal! (originally, the word 'catholic' was not meant to signify a denomination or sect, but to categorize the congregations of devotees that shared a common universal truth. (the word catholic means 'universal'). In that regard True 'catholic' and True 'vaisnava' are one and the same as the Truth is One. The experience of the Personal God wherein the universal Truth is revealed transcends the denominations and sectarianism. But also, we even appreciate the sect or denomination more because the realization of God is the realization of the saints and the acharyas (Guru Saddhu Sashtra). Hare Krsna! Jesu Ki Jaya!

A few words from the Saints on the Glorius name of Mary! "the name of Mary is the key of the gates of heaven, in the hands of those who devoutly invoke it " - St. Ephrem 3rd Century "the greatest delight and strength comes from invoking the "sweet name of Mary," - St. Anthony of Padua "thy name, 0 Mother of God, is filled with divine graces and blessings," - St. Methodius. "that thy name, 0 Mary, cannot be pronounced without bringing some grace to him who does so devoutly." - St. Bonaventure "that Mary is the salvation of all who call upon her." - St. Bonaventure "that the devils fear the Queen of heaven to such a degree, that only on hearing her great name pronounced, they fly from him who does so as from a burning fire." - Thomas a Kempis "that there is not on earth a sinner, however devoid he may be of the love of God, from whom the devil is not obliged immediately to fly, if he invokes her holy name with a determination to repent." - St. Bridget "that in the same way as the rebel angels fly from sinners who invoke the name of Mary, so also do the good angels approach nearer to just souls who pronounce her name with devotion." - St. Bridget "0 most sweet name! 0 Mary, what must thou thyself be, since thy name alone is thus amiable and gracious," - Blessed Henry Suso. "In dangers, in perplexities, in doubtful cases, think of Mary, call on Mary; let her not leave thy lips; let her not depart from thy heart." - St. Bernard on Names of Jesus and Mary Together (the Rosary) In every danger of forfeiting divine grace, we should think of Mary, and invoke her name, together with that of Jesus; for these two names always go together. 0, then, never let us permit these two most sweet names to leave our hearts, or be off our lips; for they will give us strength not only not to yield, but to conquer all our temptations. - St. Alphonsus diLigouri "The invocation of the sacred names of Jesus and Mary,is a short prayer which is as sweet to the mind, and as powerful to protect those who use it against the enemies of their salvation, as it is easy to remember." - Thomas a Kempis "Thus we see that the most holy name of Mary is sweet indeed to her clients during life, on account of the very great graces that she obtains for them. But sweeter still will it be to them in death, on account of the tranquil and holy end that it will insure them." - St. Alphonsus d Liguori "May the last movement of my tongue be to pronounce the name of the Mother of God" -St. Germanus "Blessed is the man who loves thy name, 0 Mary. Yes, truly blessed is he who loves thy sweet name, 0 Mother of God for thy name is so glorious and admirable, that no one who remembers it has any fears at the hour of death." - St. Bonaventure "I ask thee, 0 Mary, for the glory of thy name, to come and meet my soul when it is departing from this world, and to take it in thine arms." - St. Bonaventure

Amazing! Haribol! Thank you Mahaksadasa maharaja! This 'story' is truly beautiful! I don't fully grasp all of Her Glories that you describe but certainly I feel them! Mary as Israel, the Spouse of God and Her Immaculate conception is perfect. If I am not mistaken, the "Shekinah" Glory of God mentioned in the Bible is related to the sanskrit Shakti . This teach apparently has carried over into the church because the church, its saints and mystics say that Mary IS the church and that the church is the spouse of God on earth. This is totally amazing: We have this teaching preserved among the Marian devotees. It is call "consecration to Jesus through Mary". Taught by the Marian saints (St. Anthony, St. Dominic, St. Alphonsus di Liguouri, St. Louis d'Monforte). In fact devotion to the Holy Name Mary can be historically verified as a practice as far back as the 3rd century (St. Ephrem). It is said that St. Anthony (his Murti is present in practically every Catholic church on the planet) said the Holy Name Mary thousands of times per day. All glories to the Vaisnavas, the servants of the servants of God. Hare Krsna! Thank you and peace. herservant and yours

Exactly. This is how I read John 15 (I am the vine, you are the branch). A branch is genetically identical with the vine. Part and parcel. The same qualities. Our (Christian) revelation is that Jesus is Shelter of all the Jivas (Vine), the Sankarsana and not only a perfect saint (fruit bearing branch)but that He is God. I can't pretend to be realized enough to philosophically debate a point so high and near to God as this. It is my personal realization and personal experience is that He is God .. that the person of Jesus cannot be seen unless the logical contraversy of whether or not He is God is obliterated by Love for Him. I've told this to other Vaisnavas and they are completely fine with this .. that Krsna comes to His devotees in a personal way and in a form that is a perfectly revelals their relationship to Him. Also it is important that I offer my obeisances and full respects of the opinions and realizations of the Vaisnavas on the topic. Everyone doesn't have to have exactly the same conception of God. He is unlimited. The artifacts of our devotional service are identical! Therefore, I think the position should be that we not bicker over the highest points of theology. In fact, we should not take a position against each other on these high and lofty, inexplicable aspects of God. We do better to say, there are slight difference in interpretation, or different realizations of the devotees. Maybe even say that our interpretations of what our acharyas were really saying to us are not yet fully realized by us. I think at best I can approach someone and say, brother, sister .. lets just love each other .. my tiny mind can't comprehend it all .. please don't punish me if I don't have it all together as someone higher up on the spiritual platform as I .. I am not there yet .. I am a work in progress .. I ask the Vaisnavas help and prayers .. please accept my friendship. This is I think the core of the Holy Sankirtan. Chant the Holy name, receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit, listen to each other and share our experiences, and enter into the wonderous loving exchange with God and each other.

Sorry, I hope I wasn't too negative. I didn't mean to say something negative about ISKCON as a whole. Just that in my early encounters with certain members, as in the case of any organization on this planet, I experience rejection as a result of those envious of God the Father and God the Son. This envy or jealousy manifested at the mere mention the Holy Name of Jesus. But lets be realistic, I could have been a non Christian and read the bible and said .. 'O wow Jesus is so marvelous, .. I see Krsna's Son and His teaching so perfectly in the light of Bhagavad Gita .. now let me go and talk to Christians about Krsna' .. What would have been the result? "Blessed are the peacemakers, they shall be called sons of God" Matt. 5:9 Srila Prabhupada's calls us to take up the Sankirtan's non sectarian mission, .. to just chant the Holy Name! I understand this very well and can completely relate to your position and your feelings. I too, came under attack in the 70s by the fundies (fundies don't like catholics). But I now thank them because this inspired me to study christian history, church fathers, mystics and saints in greater depth. However, I always knew in my heart that God is the God of everyone .. not one sect. My favorite bible passage to thwart the fundies is: "For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus." Romans 2:13-16 God writes His Law into the heart of every person! Of course the fundies would be bewildered by this passage and pusuit a hundred other passages to defend their "right" to condemn others. Yes. The Sannyasi that gave him the copy is a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada. He knew Fr. Bede had not much formal (written) exposure to Dvaita philosophy. He said he personally gave him the CC and exclaimed "and he was reading it!". I think this happened a year or two before Fr. Bede went home.