brajeshwara das

This is a clear example of using a personal communication between Guru and disciple, via a private letter, which was meant for his ears only in a unique place and time, and projecting that as something that would trump further adjustments to his instructions to the society via public conversations addressing senior disciples.

 

You lose a sense priorities when the poison of jumping over the head of Guru takes effect, and thus wind up having to try and rationalize what is plainly a sense of confusion and conceptual contradiction in one's daily life.

 

Please learn from this lesson, it is a good one.

 

Hare Krsna

Sorry but the regs were laid out clearly for all and didn't you guys agree to follow when you took initiation? A vow? Did Srila Swami Maharaj tell you you are released from some regs?

Again, quotes supporting that it is OK for an initiated disciple to eat meat would be helpful. Many more would join the movement if that were the case I guess. Would there be a separate ksatriya initiation, a sudra initiation, a vaisya initiation?

You seculation is baseless. I have shown the evidence. You think I've never had other confirmation from some those devotees that were there during these conversations and privy to the direct hearing? Silly boy.

 

Srila Prabhupada once said 'If I told you everything, you would faint'. I'm just the one that is shouting from the roof tops. Others are sheepish, can't stand the ridicule I take. But they have told me as confirmation.

 

The date of this reference you site is before the change to a different paradigm.

 

And I can follow an order even if the WHOLE world rejects it. Can I not?

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

The varnashrama college that Srila Swami Maharaj wanted to open, was that for the whole of society or for initiated disciples?

I still have a hard time believing he told his initiated disciples that they should eat meat. He said that even though a Vaisnava may do the work of a sudra, he isn't a sudra. So it seems a misunderstanding to me to think because you are doing the work of a ksatriya, as an initiated disciple, a devotee, you can skip the regulative principles and eat meat.

Please give more quotes on this subject, specifically about initiated disciples eating meat. Generalities about the varnashrama system may not apply, my concern really is about devotional life, not adjusting society at large. I'm not saying you are wrong and to an extent it makes sense, but the statement "our sinful activities which one must avoid if there is to be any hope for spiritual advancement" seems pretty clear to me. You are following the moral materialistic doctrine of varnashrama and that is fine, but shouldn't you also follow the spiritual path as well? It seems you made a bad trade to me. I really feel you misunderstand Srila Swami Maharaj on this, but please clarify, if you show he wanted his initiated disciples to eat meat I will accept that.

I really really really want a cup of coffee, and am willing to sacrifice my spiritual life for it. How much does that suck? Why are we like this?

As such in the system of Varnashram Dharma every man and woman is trained up for this purpose of eternal life and in other words the system of Varnasharm Dharma is known also as Sanatan Dharma or eternal occupation.

Can someone clarify this, I thought these were two different things altogether.

Here is the complete verse so nothing is out of context:

While the king was repenting like this at that time he received the news about his imminent death from the bitting of a snake bird, as it was spoken by the son of the sage. He however, accepted the news as well and good for its being the cause of his indifference towards worldly attachments.

PURPORT

Real happiness is achieved by spiritual existence or by cessation of the repetitions of birth and death. Such repetitions of birth and death can be stopped only by going back to home back to Godhead. In the material world even by attaining the living conditions in the topmost planet (Brahmaloka) planet, nobody can get rid of the conditions of repetitions of birth and death. We want to stop the repetitions of birth and death but we do not accept the path of attaining the perfection. The path of perfection is that one must be freed from all material attachments and thus be fit for entering into the spiritual kingdom. Therefore, those who are materially poverty-stricken, are better candidates than those who are materially prosperous. Maharaj Parikshit was a great devotee of the Lord and bonafide candidate for entering into the kingdom of God but even though he was so, his material environments as the great emperor of the world, was a setback in the perfect attainment of his rightful status as one of the associates of the Lord in the spiritual sky. As a devotee of the Lord he could understand that the cursing of the Brahmin boy, although unwisely, was a blessing upon him being the cause of detachment from worldy affairs both political and social. Samik Muni also after regretting the incidence of his son's cursing upon the king, conveyed the news to the king as a matter of duty so that the king would be able to prepare himself for going back to Godhead. The Samik Muni sent news to the king that the foolish Srighee his son, although a powerful Brahmin boy, unfortunately had misused his spiritual power by cursing the king unwarrantedly. The incidence of the King's garlanding the Muni was not sufficient case for being cursed to death by the foolish boy but as there was no remedy to retract the curse, the king was informed for preparation of death within a week. Both Samik Muni and the king were self realised souls. Samik Muni was a mystic and Maharaj Parikshit was a devotee. Therefore there was no difference between them in the matter of self realisation and none of them were afraid of meeting death. Maharaj Parikshit could have gone to the Muni for begging his pardon but the news of his death was conveyed to the king with so much regret by the Muni that the king did not like to put the Muni into further ashamed position by his presence there. He decided to prepare himself for the imminent death and find out the way of going back to Godhead.

The complete span of life of a human being is meant for preparing himself for going back to Godhead or to get rid of the material existence made of the repetition of birth and death. As such in the system of Varnashram Dharma every man and woman is trained up for this purpose of eternal life and in other words the system of Varnasharm Dharma is known also as Sanatan Dharma or eternal occupation. The system of Varnasharam Dharma prepares a man for going back to Godhead and thus a householder is ordered to go to the forest as Vanaprastha to acquire complete knowledge and then to take Sanyas prior to the inevitable death. Parikshit Maharaj was fortunate to get the notice of seven days for meeting the inevitable death, but for the common man there is no such definite notice although death is inevitable for all. Foolishman forgets this sure fact of death and neglects the duty of preparing himself for going back to Godhead and spoils the life in animal propensities to eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Such irresponsible life is adopted by the people in the age of Kali on account of sinful desires to condemn the Brahminical culture, God consciousness and cow protection for which the state is responsible. The state must employ the revenue in the matter of advancing the above mentioned three items and thus educate the populace to prepare for the death and going back to Godhead. The state which does so is the real welfare state. The state of India may better follow the examples of Maharaj Parikshit the ideal executive head than to imitate other materialistic states who have no idea of the kingdom of Godhead, the ultimate goal of human life. Deterioration of the ideals of Indian civilization has brought about the deterioration of civic life not only in India but also abroad.

I think this should cover BG 18.43, and give a good dog and pony show.

 

Killing many times as per Srila Prabhupada's vani. I have hunted in India, Sri Lanka, and US. Eating as I like, as I have killed only.

 

I have managed well as per the satisfaction of those managed and resulting increase in production, books out, money collected.

 

I have been resorceful as need, when need and always know what to do next at any give time in my surroundings.

 

I have always been a monogamous grhastha and am only single now because of failure on the wifes part. Adult son are witness to this. All sons and daughter live with me by free will, avoiding the woman.

 

I've spent 27 yrs attempting to develop houshold life as a religious experience and a cultural haven. Living as I preached and lead. Not one day of abandonment, abuse to wife or children, nor lack of support. my wife never worked, not one day.

 

I have always help the weak and defenceless and have been know to stop violence anywhere I am. Or be violent for protection when I'm needed. I have military experience. And upto looseing hearing, practiced killing.

 

I have opened my house many times to devotees in need and given in charity as expected. Though lately I am much more selective. Because I am poor and know how to repare my own cars, I offer to work and devotees cars for free if they are in need. This I do regularly.

 

I preach DVD to everone I meet, God conscious 4 varnas and 4 asramas. On the street, in the grocery store check out, to the plummer, baker and candle stick maker. Talked a middle aged black lady into being a slave, in theory, under the conditions I discribed once. Always I will try for DVD.

 

Its a show, you asked. But all true.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

I'm just curious how this harmonizes with Srila Swami Maharaj's words below:

Please accept my blessings. I thank you for your letter dated 1st January, 1972 and am glad that you have received my letter. The four sinful activities which one must avoid if there is to be any hope for spiritual advancement are the eating of meat, fish and eggs, the use of intoxicants, illicit connection with women, and gambling. So these are the first four sins which I ask all of my students to strictly avoid committing. Practically the entire population of the world is entrapped by these four sinful activities. In our Krishna Consciousness Society we are training our students up to the standard of brahminical culture. So the great respect we are getting here in India and throughout the rest of the world is due to these restrictions. Actually our students have surpassed the category of brahmana because they are Vaisnavas which means they are transcendental to any material position, and brahmana is a material order of life, part of the Varna Ashrama system. Many times I have been told by other so-called holy men that I should not expect that foreigners will be able to avoid these sinful activities. But I have never compromised in any way and as a result of our sticking strictly to our principles our position is unique.

I believe Srila Swami Maharaj wants the devotees to break up into the varnas and ashrams for organizational reasons only, but that devotees are not part of those varnas. So because a karmi ksatriya can eat meat on occasions doesn't mean an ISKCON devotee that is part of the ksatriya section should.

I recommend try and visit the temple as much as possible, eat lots and lots of prasadam, talk with the devotees as much as you can, and to a certain extent don't worry about your material attachments right now. Work on cultivating a higher taste for spiritual life and the material things will naturally fade away. You may notice them all a lot more as you progress because what wasn't an issue before now is something you want to change, but sometimes fighting those things directly isn't the best route. Prasadam is beautiful, the Lord in deity form is beautiful, the devotees are beautiful, this beauty can win your heart over 100%. Don't underestimate the power in a ladhu

OK, can someone give advice on how to best use the querry tools to search in the Vedabase?

A question for the ksatriyas: Have you eaten meat per the following? Not a criticism, just curious:

Prabhupada: Yes. But not from the slaughterhouse. Those who are kshatriyas, they can, they’re allowed sometimes to eat meat. It is understood Bhima, Bhima also eating sometimes meat. Bhima. Amongst the Pandavas, only Bhima. Not others. So if the kshatriyas, they want to eat meat, they can be allowed on particular occasions. But they must go to the forest and kill the animal. Not that for meat-eating regular slaughterhouses should be maintained. This is all nonsense, degradation. If you want to eat meat, you go to the forest. And the sudras, they also sometimes eat meat. Or the candalas.

 

Christ’s admonishment to not blaspheme the Holy Spirit is not to blaspheme what I have just described. For it is the very working of God, amongst all his children. To not see this in the workings of the faith of others is not the sin. But the sin is to see the workings of the Spirit in others, and call it of Satan.

Luke 12:10 commentary from the Oxford Annotated Bible…’Balsphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing the genuine work of the Holy Spirit to the forces of evil rather than to God.’

By their fruit ye shall know them…false teachers teach sectarianism and hatred. Intolerance of other faith, and class their fellow human beings as followers of Satan. False teachers lead the innocent into their own devices. And the innocent repeat the same mistakes as their teachers. Preaching all that is not of the Spirit.

I really hope JustAsking reads that (as well as the rest of us).

I'm not too computer smart. How did you put the actual picture in your post?

Click the in the editor and put in the URL to your picture

Also it is easy to quote some text by highlighting the text and clicking the icon.

like this

Picture of Govinda Maharaja: http://www.verandaviews.com/grfx_inuse/0701_04_photopage_all/070220_photopage/image/070218_dsc_0053.jpg

 

Born again Christians teach that those who practice Hinduism, Buddhism, Hare Krishnaism, Islam, and any other religion, besides Faith in Christ alone, and him crucified for the remission of sins, are destined to be damned to an eternal hell.

Do you even know what a tortured mess the Bible you read is? It is not bona fide, political insertions and obmissions were made to get it as the religion of Rome. Many things are mis-translated. Read your history, this is the truth. Instead of looking outside Christianity look to purge the contamination within. The Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount is what I believe, the Good Shepherd and the Good Samaritan. I don't pretend to know the 'real' Jesus but you are a fool if you think it is the same as what your leaders are telling you. I beg you that if you do believe in Jesus then seek Him out with a pure heart, let go of the focus on the sins of others and focus on finding the purity in your own heart.

Good luck with your search.

The New Testament

 

2 Corinthians 6:14-15

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?

Define believer and unbeliever. I would say this would be a theist and an atheist. It would be your duty to preach to the atheist. Vaishnavas also are encouraged not to associate with atheists. But limiting your vision of the Lord limits the Lord, who I'm sure you 'll agree is without limits. You should be chaste to Christ as your Guru if you choose, but look for Christ with your full heart, don't trust your church fathers because they are misguiding you if they tell you Christ was the body that was crucified, and that the Lord's mercy was limited to Jesus in that time and place only. I love Jesus, I owe him so much, my Guru also says the same, that we western disciples are in so much debt to Him. I would hope all Christians could be our friends, we have much more in common than you think.

Point well taken. Could you tell me who Srila B. R. Sridhar Maharaja took siksha from on a daily bases, if any. Did He have a living Guru? If not why?Who Does Srila Govinda Maharaja take 'living siksha from? And who is there siksha and so on and so on..........is there ever a time where the devotee stands alone with Guru that has left. Does Srila Govinda Maharaja have communion with His Guru or does he always go through someone 'living'? Who is the middle man?

 

All will shout from the roof tops and you have to figure it out, pure message is in there, most are saying that way of themselves. You will find as your desires lead you, as will I. We are all saying Supersoul, Guru is in my heart, listem to me. you will find the voice that is suitable for you. does not mean you will find full truth, you still can be cheated. And you will go freely.

 

Hare Krsna, Caturbahu das Bhakti-raja

You are missing the point of why I mentioned we all need instruction:

Originally Posted by bhaktatraveler

Shouldn't only the more advanced speak and those in need of instruction listen?

 

You were indicating only some of us should speak (you? are you more advanced?) and some of us in need of instruction should only listen. My point is even the most qualified among us here are students, and to take the position that some should essentially shut up because you believe they are wrong is pretty closed minded. But I'm not surprised you misunderstood.

Though I am surely unqualified, all should remember advancement is not how many years you have been in the movement, how many slokas you know, how much physical proximity you have had to Guru or how much you think you understand Guru and Shastra. That is an internal thing we can't easily guage when interacting with each other, we can have an idea but we should be very careful when trying to nail down the position of the devotees, especially when we are trying to place them at a lower position than ourselves. And even when we know someone's position may be lower, we should have the proper mood and treat them with honor and respect.

 

Ive got many purports for this important and very profound art-form. Ive done cartoons here before, with my late friend, Srimati Jayaradhe dd.

 

 

The possibilities for interpretation are endless, aren't they? Personally I can't wait until we get to play films from thumb drives. That would be cool! And think of the storage space we'd save on our shelves.

 

Jai Shri Hari, creator of thumb drives.

 

Jai

I store videos on SD cards, a 2 GB SD card holds up to 4 full length movies! Size of a postage stamp, and play nicely on my Palm pilot. I also have converted videos to play on my cell phone. We are nearly there.

Best wishes in your unwinding. And please forgive me if I was rough with my personal attacks, but consider the analogy that I was in my mind just picking you up while you were still talking and carrying you from the room, and placing you outside the door so you would not disturb the serious discussions your seniors were involved in.

 

You may disagree with anadi but he has been nothing but cordial and is worthy of a thoughtful reply to his points. He may be wrong in siddhanta (which isn't clear to me that he is wrong) but he doesn't appear to be the one acting like a child here.

Why even worry if it packaged in an attractive package ? In my own life I have managed to get several people cracking open books just by being me. The see the once drugged out violent child standing in front of them with a serene smile and they ask.

 

 

I'm just sayiong wear a clean kurta, basically. Srila Bhakti Siddhanta was prepared to have meat served to get people to listen to His message.

Hey, now you have an excuse to buy a new TV and DVD player!

 

Hari Hari bol!

 

Jai

Or Krsna is telling you you shouldn't have a TV and VCR. I won't say anything against DVD players or risk incurring the wrath of you know who.

I am lower than a microbe in the digestive system of a worm in the stool of an offender to Prabhupada!

I am lower than whatever is lower than a microbe in the digestive system of a worm in the stool of an offender to Prabhupada!

I remember hearing of someone saying to Srila Swami Maharaj "I am the most fallen" and him saying "you aren't the most anything!"

Or is deep humility a spontaneous occurrence for some? Based on love.

I think I 'get humbled' by situations that show how powerless I am, or when I see someone who is very humble and realize how 'unhumble' I am. I don't feel humble I guess is what I'm saying but realize how wrongly important I can feel at times when encountering extrordinary situations or persons.

http://www.archive.org/download/Bhaktivedanta-Swami-Prabhupada108/Complete_Works_Prabhupada.rar

 

Try this Prabhu, it's Free. ( I still haven't changed wink)

 

It has all Letters.

So puffed-up!

I'm a worm in the stool of the dog that barks at Prabhupad's dog.

The first one that came to mind was a comedy called Bruce Almighty which starred Jim Carrey. I did not see but a few scenes, but I know it was about God.

That was pretty good, basically God gives a guy Godly powers and he quickly realizes he doesn't have the wisdom to use them, and wants his old limited self back. Pretty funny mostly, but not really a consciousness-builder. I wouldn't even say you need any faith in God to enjoy it. Kind of like Oh God from the 70'2, sort of.

I saw that there is a sequel with Steve Carell.

Just because a devotee tells you, you are wrong, does not mean the devotee knows what he is talking about. Only a point, not personal.

 

I agree 100%