Shakti-Fan

Srila Sridhar Maharaja said, "I am a faith maker not a faith breaker"? How can we express disagreement in our Krsna Conscious discussions and not attempt to break someone else's sraddha or faith?

You certainly tried to represent the conception of Sridhar Maharaja when you rationalized your strangely concocted philosophy as, "taking a step backwards to go forwards". Anyone who doubts it including you can go back and look at that post. This is a perfect example of raising an emotionally charged issue in order to not deal with the real issue. The real issue is that you often quote Sridhar Maharaja to suit your own purposes and then turn around and preach the exact misconceptions that he tries to break in "Sri Guru and His Grace". The only allies you have in this farce are the Prabhupada Only-ites who are the sworn enemies of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and therefore maha-aparadhis. Anyway I am not an official member of the SCSM but just from the viewpoint of Vaisnava etiquette it is very callous to speak about the successorship to Govinda Maharaja. He has disciples who dearly love him and they are viewing these posts. Successor means the current guru leaving this world. Thats not a very happy or palatable thought for his Vaisnava disciples nor should it be for any sane person.

Suppose the Sridhar Maharaja rtivik theory has some credence although certainly Srila Govinda Maharaja would not give it any. In fact none of the current Indian born acaryas in the Saraswat line give the rtvik theory any credence. But just for "arguments" sake suppose the theory holds true. Suppose you had some Sridhar Maharaja "Rtivik" allies, which it doesn't seem that you do. The theorectical Sridharite Rtviks would look quite different from the Prabhupada Rtviks which we all know are a signficant camp. From what I have observed over these many years is that the Prabhupada Rtviks are merely a subgroup or subcamp of what I call the "Prabhupada Only-ites". Generally the Prabhupada Only-ites dominate ISKCON and their outlook is quite literally, Prabhupada and no one else. The ISKCON Prabhupada Only-ites and the Prabhupada Rtiviks have certain beliefs in common: 1)Prabhupada's books are the law books for the next ten thousand years although it has already been shown that there is no way to substantiate that Prabhupada ever said this. 2) The jiva soul originates in Goloka not the brahmajyoti and those who preach this tatastha shakti-Brahmajyoti doctrine are covered impersonalists. 3) Prabhupada's real followers will not hear from another guru especially one of his godbrothers or their disciple for this would be disloyal to Prabhupada. 3 A) All of Prabhupada's godbrothers are absolutely useless. 4) Everything that Prabhupada said is "as it its" and their is no gradation of topics. 4 A) Prabhupada did not teach in installments even in 1966 when he was preaching to Hippies in the Lower East Side. 4 B) Therefore there is no difference between pravacana or preaching and siddhanta, spiritual conclusions 5) Prabhupada is greater than his guru, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. 6) There is no reason to associate with a real pure devotee because you can associate with Prabhupada in his books. 7) If you don't believe that women have smaller brains than men then you are a heretic. 8) If you just chant 16 rounds a day and follow the 4 rules then you will automatically go back to Godhead. 9) It doesn't matter what form of Visnu tattva you are attracted to since they are all Krsna. 9 A) If you are attracted to Krsna then it doesn't matter whether it is Dvaraka Krsna, Mathura Krsna or Vrdavana Krsna. 10) Srimati Radharani is merely Krsna's consort or girlfriend and that's all you need to know. 10 A) Other than that any mention of Her is strictly taboo otherwise you are a sahajiya. And 11) Anyone who does not accept all these precepts is a sahajiya of the worst kind. While claiming to be a "Sridharian" in your outlook you are allying yourself with people who believe and preach this ignorant and offensive drival. Generally you will find these viewpoints either denoted or implied in your posts. And when you are called on these things your tactic is to obsifuscate or cloud the issues by not dealing with the ideas myself and others put forth, and just jumping to another point.

[quote name='Guruvani The books of Srila Prabhupada ALONE gave me all the knowledge and inspiration I needed to give up the regular course of my life and join ISKCON.

You can't have it both ways Guruvani. One minute you're a rtvik the next moment a Sridhar Maharaja follower. Its like being a capitalist one moment and a socialist at another. Its not an intellectually sound position. For instance here is a "Matha oriented" statement made by you previously on this thread. Anarthas can be individual or spread through a group. What you say about mercy and sadhana is really not the position of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu coming through Srila Sridhar Maharaja. It is a manifestation of a group anartha that spread throughout the Math association especially in the West. Srila Sridhar Maharaja, and Srila Prabhupada both explained the example of the kitten and the monkey. The kitten is completely held by the mother cat. On the other hand although the mother monkey assists the baby monkey by holding him to an extent, if the baby monkey does not attempt to hold on then he will fall off. So Mahaprabhu accepted the version of the monkey. Our attempt to hold on is our practice of sadhana bhakti. When Krsna sees our sincere attempt at sadhana bhakti, guru seva, Vaisnava seva etc. He becomes disposed to take mercy upon us. Of course there is the chance that a devotee can attain bhava without any practice of sadhana, but Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur explains in Jaiva Dharma that this is very rare.

The truly weird thing is that Guruvani aka Ksamabuddhi was with Sripad Bhakti Sudhir Goswami Maharaja during the early days of the Sridhar Maharaja movement, The Mahamadala, during the mid-eighties. At that time in San Jose California all the members of the 62 S. 13th St. Math, including Ksamabuddhi, preached the precepts found in Srila Sridhar Maharaja's book "Sri Guru and His Grace" (published in San Jose). Reliable sources tell me that the New Raman Reti ISKCON temple in Alachua Florida, near where Ksamabuddhi lives, is something right out of Rod Serling's, "The Twilight Zone". We must have pity on Ksamabuddhi because just being in proximity to the Alachua temple or merely observing the antics in that community is enough to drive anyone nuts. This is especially true if you use your time trying to figure out just what went wrong. And it appears that KB is obsessed with just that: What went wrong? But Srila Sridhar Maharaja says that, "every wave is a favorable wave". He also says that, "no one can cheat us except ourselves". People are cheated because they want to cheat others, but there are always bigger cheaters lurking out there. Ultimately Krsna is the biggest cheater. Srila Prabhupada called it "the society of the cheaters and the cheated." It happens in every attempt at a spiritual society when too much mundanity seeps in. So what else is new? We have to learn to look within not without. In fact this is a major theme of the Bhagavad Gita. Some translations give atma as the mind some as the body, some as the soul. Srila Prabhupada tranlated BG 6.5 "A man must elevate himself by his own mind, not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well". Sometimes Srila Sridhar Maharaja would quote this verse in sanskrit and then say, "we are our own friend or our worst enemy" and "the enemy is within". So according to Sri Krsna in the Bhagavad Gita our own mind is our worst enemy not an ecclesiastical board that has lost its way. Even mundaners who preach postitive thinking know to focus on the positive not the negative. Tamasi ma jyotir gamah, look towards the light not the darkness. We have no control over what others will do. As Srila Prabhupada said, "we have to fly our own airplane." There are so many songs by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and other acaryas where they take the role of a conditioned soul and lament their "pitiful" condition. We are those conditioned souls so an important part of the process of bhakti for us is lament our pitiable and fallen position. If we are focused on the faults of others then this is impossible. Trnadapi sunicena taror api suhisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada hari. <nobr></nobr>

Yes for anyone "to say that we have absorbed all that" would be puffed up and impertinent. But what Srila Sridhar Maharaja explained was that essentially the tip of the iceberg itself of the books of Srila Prabhupada is far deeper than we had previously imagined. The difficulty is that it is our attachment to sense gratification and our false egos that keeps us imprisoned in real superficiality. And making posts on these forums doesn't necessarily help us if we are not making a serious attempt to perform sadhana bhakti. Sad but true, certainly for me.

"...in the exact same words". Isn't that what it means to parrot? Isn't that what a parrot (bird) does. "Not exactly parrot". So not exactly like a parrot means to repeat the essence of what you've heard from your spiritual master. Srila Sridhar Maharaja said that one of the reasons his guru maharaja, Srila Saraswati Thakur appreciated him was that he, "did not merely vomit" what he heard. If you vomit some food then you have not digested or assimilated it. The word assimilate is explained in the dictionary as “the transformation of food into living tissue”. To realize, assimilate or "understand the meaning" are all synonomous. Maybe freshman English and a Symbolic Logic class would help.

"Every one of you. What is your realization? You write your realization – what you have realized about Krishna. That is required. It is not passive. Always you should be active. Whenever you find time, write. Never mind – two lines, four lines, but you write your realizations. Sravanam, kirtanam. Writing or offering prayers, glories – this is one of the functions of a Vaisnava. You are hearing, but you have to write also. Then, writing means smaranam – remembering what you have heard from your spiritual master." - Srila Prabhupada Los Angeles 1970 "...in the exact same words". Another nonsense statement. If this was true then there would be no reason to write your own realization. You would just copy verbatim directly out of the books. To do this would mean there is no room for personal realization. I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. Go back and re-read all of Sridhar Maharaja's books and listen to as many of his audio files as you can. If you take it in submissively he will smash all the mundane mental forms that you have constructed in the name of Srila Prabhupada. Yes, allow the transcendental "form breaker" to break your forms.

You've basically explained your position in your post, so you are definitely not an extreme fundamentalist". Sorry that I jumped to such a conclusion. I think this fairly straight forward. If someone takes the postion that Srila Prabhupada is non-different than his books but ignores major themes running through those books then they are at least making an error in sound thinking. For instance our friend Guruvani seems to belittle the concept of sadhu sanga which is certainly a major theme in the Gaudiya siddhanta coming through Srila Prabhupada from his guru varga. You can't ignore a major point just to make your point. You always have to look at both sides or aspects. And if we look IN Srila Prabhupada's books we will find ALL aspects perfectly harmonized. I essentially agree with this point although I would say that a higher concept of guru would be to see the Supersoul as Lord Nityananda and then to at least accept that the guru is seen as Krsna's eternal consort in the highest rasa.

So going to hear from Sridhar Maharaja was a bogus thing after all? I know that you don't believe that. Then how could you possibly write this absurd post? One important point that Srila Sridhar Maharaja told us was the sastra or books, "are the recorded words of the sadhu". He also explained how the sastra is passive and the sadhu is active. You can't ask the sastra if you have a hard time understanding a verse or a point made in a purport or a commentary (tika). Also if the sadhu is upset with our behavior then he may give us a good slap. After all we are told that "everything is a person" not a book. The books are recorded sound vibrations thats why hearing is so important. In old ISKCON we didn't sit with a copy of Krsna Book and read individually at evening hot milk and bananas. Some devotee controlled his senses, waiting for his own prasadam and read the Krsna Book out loud so we could hear it. And we all knew that although we could hear Srila Prabhupada's tapes and read or hear his books, there was going to be some special magic when he came to our temple and gave class. I don't ever remember anyone in those days denying it. Srila Sridhar Maharja told us that it is very difficult to understand Siva tattva, dhama tattva and guru tattva. Yes it is very difficult to understand.

If someone says that he has reached that standard, and that there is nothing further to be realized, we offer our obeisances to him from far away. We are not worshipers of that. If one thinks that he is finished, that he has attained perfection — we hate it! Even an acharya should consider that he is a student, and not a finished professor who knows everything. One should always think of himself as a bona fide student. We have come to realize the Infinite, not a finite thing. So, this fight between finite and Infinite knowledge will continue always. Srila Sridhar MaharajaMaybe the real problem is they think that there is "nothing further to be realized". Maybe they think that they have "attained perfection". Sridhar Maharaja says further: Should we think, "What I have understood is absolute." No! We have not finished with knowledge. Still, we must know. Brahma himself says, "I am fully deceived by your power, Master. I am nowhere." Anyone who has come in connection with the infinite cannot but say this: "I am nothing." That should be the salient point. Here's the real answer Guruvani, the whole thing, right before us. But "we will have to dive deep into reality, as we give up the external covers, and we experience what may be considered as death in the external world, -die to live- we shall enter into the inner side more and more. (Subjective Evolution of Consciouness).

I am not disagreeing that it is universal. Here's a basic example of two dualities that must be harmonized: 1) It's all in Prabhupada's books, and 2) What does he say in those books? It's even an error in logic not to address this. Not to recognize the limitations of our crude language and mechanistic thought patterns is a large oversight that most posters on this forum make. And that is a major reason we are trapped in an endless loop of rehashing the same points over and over. Can you and KB take a break from extreme fundamentalism and respond to this?

Your title is Is there any part of YES that you do not understand? Another title could be Paramahamsa received the answer YES in a personal conversation with his guru. Both titles convey the truth relative to the aspect we are viewing. Sri Krsna is infinite so there are infinite aspects to all His tattvas or truths. On the other hand there are dulalities such as black and white. But the dualities are all harmonized when we are truly making ourselves proper recipients for the mercy of guru and Krsna. After all we have all come into connection with the divine Sankirtan Movement of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. The fact that we foolish persons are fighting over this issue is proof positive of our lack of qualification and therefore wisdom. We are trying to use our intellect and brain power in the transcendental realm but we will not be successful. Srila Sridhar Maharaj has an elightening exposition on this: Srimad Bhagavatam (7.5.30) it is written: matir na krsne paratah svato va mitho bhipadyeta grha-vratanam adanta-gobirvisatam tamisram punah punas carvita-carvananam "Srimad-Bhagavatam tells us that we can try to enter the world of higher reality through intellectualism, but we will again come back, baffled in our attempts. If we try to press with our intelligence to enter into that domain, we will come back dissatisfied in despair and will wander here within this mortal world again and again. sreyah srtim bhaktim udasya te vibho klisyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye tesam asau klesala eva sisyate nanyad yatha sthula-tusavaghatinam "O Lord, those who want to have a clear conception of You through their intellect find their attempts useless. Their endeavors end only in frustration, like those who try to beat rice from an empty husk." ( Bhag. 10.14.4) "So jnana, knowledge, is like an empty husk. Energy and knowledge are only outer aspects. The real substance, the rice, is devotion–love. That is the tasteful thing within. Other things are covers (jnana-karmady-anavrtam). But what is within the cover is tasteful, eternal, auspicious, and beautiful: satyam, sivam, sundaram. Beauty is reality, ecstasy is reality; everything else is only an outer cover - with the cover, we cannot get the substance within. Then our life becomes a disappointment:."

Crystal clear post.

Again simultaneous oneness and difference. If you were directly before Srila Sridhar Maharaja during his manifest lila, on his veranda and he just said,"Who is our guru? He is not to be found in the physical form". Then he asked you for a drink of water or for some homeopathic medicine; you wouldn't get it for him? Of course not, but some foolish persons could take it that way. Therefore whenever a precept is given by Sri Guru there may be the need for further details. Consequently if the guru whom you received the precept from is no longer manifest then we can pose our question "wherever we find the embodiment of the pure thought and understanding which Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu imparted to save us." Did you note the word embodiment here. Notice that the word "body" is within the word "embodiment". Just because someone says that the truth can be embodied, does that make them a "body addict"? Sometimes all of us including myself need to slow down and think before we fire off a reply. <o:p></o:p>

Only a very advanced disciple will be able to properly harmonize the vani and vapu of Sri Guru Therefore is always advisable to get the association of such an advanced disciple for they can help you understand the writings of a great sastra guru. The point that Srila Sridhar Maharaja often made is that the truth moves in a zig zag way. So such an advanced disciple can be either a diksa or siksa disciple. Otherwise without good association we will over emphasize one instruction of Sri Guru at the expense of another. "To err is human". Therefore if one takes the position that I have stated above, why would it be reasonable and logical to assume that one therefore disagrees with the concept of "unseen gurus" or doesn't believe that, "the vani of Srila Prabhupada is saving souls everyday"? How can thoughts in dulality ever be harmonized without applying acintya bhedaa bheda tattva? In fact the proper application of acintya bhedaa bheda tattva according to Sri Sridhar Maharaja is the very basis of the system of understanding Krsna bhakti, at least on the level of sambandha jnana, "knowing what is what".

Here's a good portion of a purport quoted in Sripad Murali Krsna Maharaja's article: SB 3.22.7 Purport: …Manu said that since he was advised and instructed by Kardama Muni, he was very much favored. He considered himself lucky to receive the message by aural reception. It is especially mentioned here that one should be very inquisitive to hear with open ears from the authorized source of the bona fide spiritual master. How is one to receive? One should receive the transcendental message by aural reception. The word karna-randhraih means “through the holes of the ears.” The favor of the spiritual master is not received through any other part of the body but the ears. Also hearing from a bonafide spritual master in his physical presence is sambhoga. Then reading his books out of his presence is vipralambha or separation. The separation mood in relation to Sri Guru is not perfomed with the attitude, "He's in his books so I am fully satisfied". The real mood is to lament that I am separated, and then be somewhat consoled by the books. "After all Prabhupada said that he's in his books so I see him here, by his order." But then unto a real disciple the pangs of separation return and one feels bereft without his personal association and longs for the day that he or she can be reunited with Srila Prabhupada in physical reality, dreams, another body anything but this separation that burns like fire. Srila Narayana Maharaja said that unless a disciple serves his gurudeva with great faith during the lifetime of the guru then he will not be able to feel this kind of separation from Sri Guru. So the concept that "Srila Prabhupada is in his books" without taking into consideration what is actually in his books, the emphasis on hearing and sadhu sanga is like some kind of twisted logic. That twisted logic only sees one aspect of spiritual duality in relation to Sri Guru's association and thoroughly disregards Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conception of acintya bheda (a)bheda tattva, simultaneous oneness and difference.

Sri Guru is Always Manifested <o:p></o:p> BY: MURALI KRSNA SWAMI <o:p></o:p> Dec 10, BHUBANESWAR, INDIA (SUN) — It is obvious by what some devotees are writing that they are seriously misunderstanding our philosophy on Guru Tattva and thereby committing serious offenses due to their lack of proper understanding. They obviously have not properly heard from a bona fide guru and it is quite clear that they are “groping in the dark and lost in mental speculation”. Without hearing Krsna katha from the lips of a pure devotee, one cannot purify his existence and thus become free from anarthas, including tattva-bhrama (philosophical misconceptions), nor can one develop a proper understanding of how to advance in their bhajan path in order to achieve the sadhya (goal) of Krsna-prema. <o:p></o:p> Krsna says in Bhagavad gita, “By all the Vedas I am to be known” and of course, to know Krsna means to render loving service to Him. The whole Vedic process is called srauta-pantha, the path of hearing. Srila Prabhupada in many place speaks about the absolute necessity of sravanam (hearing) from the proper source as THE process of receiving this perfect transcendental knowledge of Krsna consciousness. <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada’s CC Adi 16.52 Purport: …The statement kariyachi sravana (“I have heard it”) is very important in the sense that hearing is more important than directly studying or perceiving. If one is expert in hearing and hears from the right source, his knowledge is immediately perfect. This process is called srauta-pantha, or the acquisition of knowledge by hearing from authorities. All Vedic knowledge is based on the principle that one must approach a bona fide spiritual master and hear from him the authoritative statements of the Vedas. It is not necessary for one to be a highly polished literary man to receive knowledge; to receive perfect knowledge from a perfect person, one must be expert in hearing. This is called the descending process of deductive knowledge, or avaroha-pantha. <o:p></o:p> SP, Lecture Bhagavad-gita 9.15 -- New York, December 1, 1966 Unless you hear, you cannot describe. What you shall describe? If you do not know anything about the Supreme Lord, then how can you describe? Therefore hearing is the first item, sravanam. And the whole Vedic literature is called hearing, sruti, sruti-sastra. Sruti means to receive by hearing. God has given you the power of hearing. If you hear from authoritative sources, then you become perfect, simply by hearing.<o:p></o:p> Some may say, “That is all right, I am hearing from Srila Prabhupada or other past Acaryas from their books.” This sounds good but, when it is recommended to hear in order to receive perfect knowledge, it means hearing directly from the lotus lips/ mouth of a pure devotee into the receptive and submissive inquisitive ear of a bona fide disciple. (Again, who is bona fide as spiritual master and disciple will be discussed later. For now, we are talking about the Vedic process of receiving and assimilating knowledge of the Absolute.) <o:p></o:p> Srila Prabhupada has in many places spoken of the absolute requirement of directly hearing from the mouth/ lips of a pure devotee as THE process for developing transcendental knowledge (tattva- vijnanam). Knowledge of the Absolute Truth is achieved by submissive aural reception of the transcendental sound vibration generated from the heart and projected from the lotus mouth of a bona fide Spiritual Master. <o:p></o:p> SB 3.22.7 Purport: …Manu said that since he was advised and instructed by Kardama Muni, he was very much favored. He considered himself lucky to receive the message by aural reception. It is especially mentioned here that one should be very inquisitive to hear with open ears from the authorized source of the bona fide spiritual master. How is one to receive? One should receive the transcendental message by aural reception. The word karna-randhraih means “through the holes of the ears.” The favor of the spiritual master is not received through any other part of the body but the ears. <o:p></o:p> SB 7.5.23-24 Purport:: Unless one hears about the holy name, form and qualities of the Lord, one cannot clearly understand the other processes of devotional service. If one is fortunate enough to hear from the mouth of realized devotees, he is very easily successful on the path of devotional service. Therefore hearing of the holy name, form and qualities of the Lord is essential. <o:p></o:p> SP; Top Most Yoga System Ch.6:: …Even a child can take part in the chanting and dancing. …When it is chanted by a pure devotee of the Lord in love, it has the greatest efficacy on hearers, and as such this chanting should be heard from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that immediate effects can be achieved. <o:p></o:p> SB 1.3.44 Translation:: O learned brahmanas, when Sukadeva Gosvami recited Bhagavatam there [in the presence of Emperor Pariksit], I heard him with rapt attention, and thus, by his mercy, I learned the Bhagavatam from that great and powerful sage. Now I shall try to make you hear the very same thing as I learned it from him and as I have realized it. <o:p></o:p> PURPORT <o:p></o:p> One can certainly see directly the presence of Lord Sri Krsna in the pages of Bhagavatam if one has heard it from a self-realized great soul like Sukadeva Gosvami. … That is the process, and there is no alternative. …Sukadeva Gosvami presented Bhagavatam as he heard it from his great father, and so also Suta Gosvami is presenting Bhagavatam as he had heard it from Sukadeva Gosvami. … The word nivista means that Suta Gosvami drank the juice of Bhagavatam through his ears. That is the real process of receiving Bhagavatam. One should hear with rapt attention from the real person, and then he can at once realize the presence of Lord Krsna in every page. The secret of knowing Bhagavatam is mentioned here. … somehow or other if someone hears with rapt attention from the right person, at the very beginning one can assuredly see Lord Sri Krsna in person in the pages of Bhagavatam.<o:p></o:p> Now one may say, “ OK, I accept that in order to truly understand Vedic knowledge one has to hear from the lotus mouth and into the receptive ear, well, I am hearing from Srila Prabhupada from his tapes or CD’s…”. But that is not what Prabhupada says. One must hear directly from the lips, “Just like Sukadeva Gosvami was speaking to Maharaja Pariksit.” <o:p></o:p> SP SB Lecture June12, 1972:: ….Krsna says that, “Anyone who understands Me in truth ...” So how you will understand? Simply if you hear about Him, then you will understand. Then you will understand. So hearing is not very difficult job. But you must hear from the realized soul. If you hear from a professional man, that will not be effective. Hearing must be from sadhu, from devotee, from the lips of the devotee. Just like Sukadeva Gosvami was speaking to Maharaja Pariksit. <o:p></o:p> SP Lecture SB 6.1.24, Chicago 1975:: …Then what is required? Namanta eva. Just become submissive. Don’t think yourself as very great philosopher, theologist, scientist. Just be humble. “My dear sir, just be humble.” Namanta eva. “Then what will be my business? All right, I shall become humble. Then how I shall make progress?” Now, “Just hear the message of God.” “From whom?” San-mukharitam: “through the mouth of the devotees.” Not professional, not gramophone-through the mouth of, through the lips of real devotee. Yadi... If somebody follows this process without mental speculation and if he has got intelligence, by hearing from the realized soul, he will realize everything.<o:p></o:p> Someone else may say, “ I am hearing Srila Prabhupada by reading his books….” Well, Srila Prabhupada has written; <o:p></o:p> SP Morning walk Jan 8, 1977 Bombay:: Dr. Patel: Sat-sanga is continuously coming in contact with such gurus like you or, I mean, reading that sastras, also is a sat-sanga. Prabhupada: But reading... By reading, you cannot understand. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. That is also vidhilin: “In order to understand that science, he must go to guru.” <o:p></o:p> SB 2.3.1 Purport:: Therefore out of thousands and thousands of men, one may inquire about his spirit self and thus consult the revealed scriptures like Vedanta-sutras, Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. But in spite of reading and hearing such scriptures, unless one is in touch with a realized spiritual master, he cannot actually realize the real nature of self, etc. <o:p></o:p> CC Adi 16.52 Purport:: The statement kariyachi sravana (“I have heard it”) is very important in the sense that hearing is more important than directly studying or perceiving. If one is expert in hearing and hears from the right source, his knowledge is immediately perfect. <o:p></o:p> CC Antya 7.53 Purport:: As Svarupa Damodara has said, if one wants to learn the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one must take lessons from a realized soul. One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving service of the Lord simply by reading books. One must become a servant of a Vaisnava. As Narottama dasa Thakura has confirmed, chadiya vaisnava-seva nistara peyeche keba: one cannot be in a transcendental position unless one very faithfully serves a pure Vaisnava. One must accept a Vaisnava guru (adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara system. <o:p></o:p> SP Festival Lecture Nov.18, 1968, Los Angeles: Prabhupada: … So, of course, reading or hearing. You may not have time to read, but try to read. If you have no time, you are hearing. We are publishing, we are publishing literature, books. I am trying to speak to you. That is also understanding, studying Krsna science. Rather, hearing is better reception. If you hear... The Vedas are therefore known as sruti. Sruti means it is received through hearing. Real process is hearing. And this age, Kali-yuga, people cannot study so much. … Simply by studying, becoming bookworm, you cannot advance. <o:p></o:p> S.B. 1.1.6 Purport:: …One can assimilate the knowledge of the revealed scriptures only by hearing and explaining. Hearing is called sravana, and explaining is called kirtana. The two processes of sravana and kirtana are of primary importance to progressive spiritual life. Only one who has properly grasped the transcendental knowledge from the right source by submissive hearing can properly explain the subject. <o:p></o:p> SB 2.1.8 Purport:: Srimad-Bhagavatam, or, for that matter, any other scientific literature, cannot be studied at home by one's own intellectual capacity. Medical books of anatomy or physiology are available in the market, but no one can become a qualified medical practitioner simply by reading such books at home. One has to be admitted to the medical college and study the books under the guidance of learned professors. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam, the postgraduate study of the science of Godhead, can only be learned by studying it at the feet of a realized soul like Srila Vyasadeva. Although Sukadeva Gosvami was a liberated soul from the very day of his birth, he still had to take lessons of Srimad-Bhagavatam from his great father, Vyasadeva, who compiled the Srimad-Bhagavatam under the instruction of another great soul, Sri Narada Muni. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed a learned brahmana to study Srimad-Bhagavatam from a personal bhagavata. <o:p></o:p> SB 2.1.10 Purport:: Srimad-Bhagavatam is recognized Vedic wisdom, and the system of receiving Vedic knowledge is called avaroha-pantha, or the process of receiving transcendental knowledge through bona fide disciplic succession. … The bona fide spiritual master reasonably explains everything to the disciple on the authorities of Vedic wisdom. The disciple can receive such teachings not exactly intellectually, but by submissive inquiries and a service attitude. The idea is that both the spiritual master and the disciple must be bona fide. One who is actually interested in the Bhagavatam, therefore, must not play with it by reading or hearing a portion from here and a portion from there; one must follow in the footsteps of great kings like Maharaja Ambarisa or Maharaja Pariksit and hear it from a bona fide representative of Sukadeva Gosvami. <o:p></o:p> SB 3.25.25 Translation:: ”In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is very pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation, and thereafter he is freed, and his attraction becomes fixed. Then real devotion and devotional service begin.” PURPORT <o:p></o:p> The process of advancing in Krsna consciousness and devotional service is described here. The first point is that one must seek the association of persons who are Krsna conscious and who engage in devotional service. Without such association one cannot make advancement. Simply by theoretical knowledge or study one cannot make any appreciable advancement….<o:p></o:p> For those who say they can and are associating with Srila Prabhupada, let us first understand Srila Prabhupada as a bona fide Sri Guru, an external manifestation of the Caitya-guru, Supersoul. Prabhupada in many places speaks about this from sastra. Without understanding paramatma tattva one cannot understand Guru tattva. Krsna by His causeless mercy and by His own sweet will assumes the body of the Spiritual Master in order to reveal Himself to the sincere and serious devotee crying in the heart for Him. <o:p></o:p> CC Adi Lila 1.45 Translation:: “According to the deliberate opinion of all revealed scriptures, the spiritual master is nondifferent from Krsna. Lord Krsnaa in the form of the spiritual master delivers His devotees.” Purport: <o:p></o:p> The relationship of a disciple with his spiritual master is as good as his relationship with the Supreme Lord. A spiritual master always represents himself as the humblest servitor of the Personality of Godhead, but the disciple must look upon him as the manifested representation of Godhead. <o:p></o:p> CC Adi Lila 1.44 Translation:: “Although I know that my spiritual master is a servitor of Sri Caitanya, I know Him also as a plenary manifestation of the Lord.” <o:p></o:p> PURPORT: <o:p></o:p> Every living entity is essentially a servant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the spiritual master is also His servant. Still, the spiritual master is a direct manifestation of the Lord. With this conviction, a disciple can advance in Krsna consciousness. The spiritual master is nondifferent from Krsna because he is a manifestation of Krsna. <o:p></o:p> CC Madhya 20.123: ‘sastra-guru-atma'-rupe apanare janana: ‘krsna mora prabhu, trata' -- jivera haya jnana<o:p></o:p> Krsna assumes the form of the Spiritual Master and the Sastra. In this way Krsna reveals Himself to the forgetful conditioned soul and helps deliver him from maya. <o:p></o:p> SB 11.17.27 Translation:: “One should know the acarya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.” <o:p></o:p> SB 4.8.44 Purport:: The supreme spiritual master is Krsna, who is therefore known as caitya-guru. This refers to the Supersoul, who is sitting in everyone's heart. He helps from within as stated in Bhagavad-gita, and He sends the spiritual master, who helps from without. The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the caitya-guru, or the spiritual master sitting in everyone's heart. <o:p></o:p> SB 11.29.6 Translation:: O my Lord! Transcendental poets and experts in spiritual science could not fully express their indebtedness to You, even if they were endowed with the prolonged lifetime of Brahma, for You appear in two features -- externally as the acarya and internally as the Supersoul -- to deliver the embodied living being by directing him how to come to You. <o:p></o:p> Easy Journey to Other Planets ch. 2:: Krsna reveals Himself from within to one who is serious about God realization. Both Krsna and the spiritual master help the sincere soul. The spiritual master is the external manifestation of God, who is situated in everyone’s heart as Supersoul. <o:p></o:p> SP Bg Lecture Bombay 73’:: …. So Krsna is advising that “I am in everyone’s heart.” You can take advice from Krsna. Krsna is ready. Krishna’s another name is caitya-guru. Caitya-guru means the guru who is situated within your heart. Krsna comes out as instructor guru or initiator guru outside, and he is sitting within the heart as caitya-guru. Krsna is ready to help you, help us, every one of us, in two ways: by the external guru and internal guru. Internal guru, He is Krsna Himself, and external guru, His manifestation, the spiritual master. So we should take advantage of two gurus and make our life successful. This is Krsna consciousness movement. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. <o:p></o:p> CC Adi 1.58 Translation:: Since one cannot visually experience the presence of the Supersoul, He appears before us as a liberated devotee. Such a spiritual master is none other than Krsna Himself. <o:p></o:p> PURPORT <o:p></o:p> It is not possible for a conditioned soul to directly meet Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but if one becomes a sincere devotee and seriously engages in devotional service, Lord Krsna sends an instructing spiritual master to show him favor and invoke his dormant propensity for serving the Supreme. The preceptor appears before the external senses of the fortunate conditioned soul, and at the same time the devotee is guided from within by the caitya-guru, Krsna, who is seated as the spiritual master within the heart of the living entity.<o:p></o:p> It is very difficult, if not impossible, for a conditioned soul with contaminated consciousness to associate with and thus hear properly from the caitya-guru or the unmanifested guru (previous Acaryas). Please don’t misunderstand, Sri Guru is always manifested, but in different forms. Prabhupada says, “There is only one guru, who appears in an infinity of forms to teach you, me, and all others”. That is another point later that has to be understood properly. For now…, How can a conditioned soul with polluted mind and consciousness associate with and hear, either from a previous acarya (unmanifested) or from the Supersoul? Prabhupada says in Srimad Bhagavatam purport that, “A conditioned soul doesn’t know what to do or not to do”. We should ask ourselves if we have real unflinching faith and realized knowledge on the platform of the soul? Can we see and hear such personalities; directly? Can we with our doubt practically hear their answers to your questions and doubts? If you say yes, then why are you in such confusion and doubts with uncontrolled mind and senses? Why are you always speculating to try and figure it out? Why are we making so many mistakes? Why can’t we recognize and properly treat pure Vaisnavas? Why do we keep changing in our philosophical positions? In other words, is it working, practically? Who will chastise you and rectify you and punish you with their merciful and loving discipline? Who will reciprocate with you in a loving way as to inspire our unconditional surrender? With out Guru seva and Guru bhakti there is no question of Krsna seva and Krsna bhakti. Where will we learn this? How do we understand it and where do we practice it? Krsna assumes the form of the spiritual master and the deity because we are blind and cannot see or hear from Him directly. THIS is how He helps us to learn the science and how to serve. <o:p></o:p> Of course some few advanced sincere souls with the necessary purification and practical faith will be able to access the caitya guru and the previous Acaryas, but that is after liberation and they are very rare souls. Srila Prabhupada explains; <o:p></o:p> SB 4.28.52 Purport: Consultation with the Supersoul seated within everyone's heart is possible only when one is completely free from the contamination of material attachment. One who is sincere and pure gets an opportunity to consult with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His Paramatma feature sitting within everyone's heart. The Paramatma is always the caitya-guru, the spiritual master within, and He comes before one externally as the instructor and initiator spiritual master. The Lord can reside within the heart, and He can also come out before a person and give him instructions. Thus the spiritual master is not different from the Supersoul sitting within the heart. <o:p></o:p> An uncontaminated soul or living entity can get a chance to meet the Paramatma face to face. Just as one gets a chance to consult with the Paramatma within his heart, one also gets a chance to see Him actually situated before him. Then one can take instructions from the Supersoul directly. This is the duty of the pure devotee: to see the bona fide spiritual master and consult with the Supersoul within the heart. <o:p></o:p> When the brahmana asked the woman who the man lying on the floor was, she answered that he was her spiritual master and that she was perplexed about what to do in his absenceK/u>. At such a time the Supersoul immediately appears, provided the devotee is purified in heart by following the directions of the spiritual master. A sincere devotee who follows the instructions of the spiritual master certainly gets direct instructions from his heart from the Supersoul. Thus a sincere devotee is always helped directly or indirectly by the spiritual master and the Supersoul.<o:p></o:p> So to associate with the previous Acaryas or the Supersoul, one has to be completely free from the contamination of material attachment; an uncontaminated pure soul. In other words, he has to be a liberated soul, beyond the bodily concept filled with material desires (anarthas). Without being on that platform, it is much more effective and intelligent to take association and instruction from a Manifested Sri Guru, siksa or diksa. Real Guru is the external manifestation of the Caitya-guru and bona fide diksa and siksa gurus are said by Srila Prabhupada in a CC purport to be equal and identical manifestations of the Caitya- guru (Supersoul). Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, “Sri Guru is always physically manifested, otherwise how can Krsna’s samsar go on?” One who is sincere and has received the mercy of his bona fide Sri Guru can understand it. Without the mercy of Sri Guru and Krsna no one else will be able to understand. <o:p></o:p> Next time I will post an excerpt from a conversation with Srila Gour Govinda Swami where he nicely speaks on some of the points I have presented before you today. Please try to overlook all of my faults in my small attempt to participate in and hopefully help some devotees in understanding these very subtle and confidential tattvas. I am trying to share what I have learned and realized by the mercy of my revered spiritual master Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja. <o:p></o:p> Thank you for your patience. <o:p></o:p> Your servant, Murali Krsna Swami <o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>

Were the gatekeepers of Vaikuntha really demons? Is anything in this material world really what it seems?

ISKCON GBC Resolutions '99 102. [LAW] SERVICE REPORTS BY SANNYASIS<o:p></o:p> THAT item No. 1 of the 1995 resolution No. 14 entitled "Sannyasi Annual Commitment" shall be amended from the following:<o:p></o:p> "THAT sannyasis who are not GBC's or ISKCON Managers shall annually submit in writing to the GBC a "service program" report they are committing themselves to for the following year. This report shall include the following: <o:p></o:p> a) what devotional services they intend to do;<o:p></o:p> b) where they intend to perform their services;<o:p></o:p> c) when they intend to be in different places, if not always in the same zone;<o:p></o:p> d) anything else they would like the GBC to know."<o:p></o:p> To now read:<o:p></o:p> "THAT all sannyasis shall annually submit in writing to the GBC Body a "service program" report they are committing themselves to for the following year. This report shall include the following: <o:p></o:p> a) what devotional services they intend to do;<o:p></o:p> b) where they intend to perform their services;<o:p></o:p> c) when they intend to be in different places, if not always in the same<o:p></o:p> zone;<o:p></o:p> d) anything else they would like the GBC Body to know."<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p>

Victory Flag, A Website of Srila Jayapataka Sisya Samuha Gurudakshina To support and help the mission of the spiritual master is the duty of the disciple and a great way to please the Lord. There are many ways in which one can help the mission of the spiritual master and one of the easiest is to help financially, by making a donation. Devotees had requested us to create an online facility to make their donations (Guru Dakshina) and we are pleased to offer this facility through this webportal.You can choose to donate online by clicking on the donate button on the top right of this page or choose other offline options described below. You can specify how your donation has to be used or leave the choice to Gurumaharaj. Your donations go towards Guru Maharaja's traveling and personal expenses, the Congregrational Development Ministry and the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust which develops parikrama sites and maintains many of the sites and temples of Lord Caitanya`s pastimes. Gurumaharaj also supports the ISKCON youth programs and other projectsAt times to give more support to particular departments, Guru Maharaja pledges a donation in advance, so with your contributions and pledges in place it helps to make a decision. Listed below are different ways in which you can send in your donation.(1) Demand Draft or Cheque: Please make the DD or Cheque in the name of "ISKCON" and send it by registered post or by speed post to the address mentioned below, with a covering letter explaining that it is been sent for the purpose of Vyasa Puja / Service of our Guru Maharaja.Ratnavali Devi Dasi,ISKCON,106, Chakra building,Sri Mayapur Chandrodaya Mandir,Sri Mayapur 741313, Nadia Dt., WB, INDIA.(2) Online Donations: (Click the Donate button on the right column of this page)(3) Sending Laxmi through devotees: You might want to send Laxmi through devotees who are visiting Sri Mayapur dham. It would be best if you can also send an email letter to gurudakshina@victoryflag.com mentioning the donation amount you have sent and the details of the devotee whom you are sending it through, so that we can confirm the receipt of the same.(4) By courier: Gifts can also be sent through courier services which use online tracking systems, so that you always know where your package is.Recommended courier services are: DHL, AFL or WIZAddress them to: Shop - "Bipasha com"C/O Subrata Naskar (Phone Number: +919333212140)AFL/WIZRatnavali devi dasi,106, Chakra Building,ISKCON, Sri Mayapur Chandrodaya MandirSri Mayapur - 741313, Nadia Dt, West BengalIndia.If you have any other questions regarding donations, kindly write to us at gurudakshina@victoryflag.com.

Career Gurus and Institutional Over-dependence BY: KSHAMABUDDHI DAS Dec 8, USA (SUN) — One of the by-products of institutionalizing a spiritual movement, for the sake of missionary work and humanitarian efforts, is the creation of a class of devotees and “gurus” who become wholly and solely dependent upon the institution for subsistence and livelihood. They lose all connection with the greater society and become dependents of the mission for their food, shelter and financial means. Total dependence upon Krishna is thus equated with total dependence upon the institution. But, is this really the actual fact? Wouldn’t total dependence upon Krishna mean more than just becoming totally dependent upon the establishment of the spiritual master for subsistence and prospective followers and supporters? Even after the institution gets bogged-down and burdened with a top-heavy bureaucracy that in many ways suppresses individual effort, is being totally dependent upon that institution actually an expression of total dependence upon Krishna? In ISKCON today, we see not only a class of devotees that are dependent upon the mission for their subsistence, but the growing phenomena of a class of career gurus who become totally dependent upon the institution of their spiritual master for their subsistence. Instead of making their own way and establishing their own Matha and temple, they become career gurus in the institution as a survival mechanism in the name of messianic calling and divine purpose. Many times we find gurus becoming ordained as guru by the simple act of accepting one neophyte disciple and immediately, instantly a person goes from the status of sadhaka to siddha as if my some magic transformation because some neophyte devotee has nominated him to be guru. The ascension to the platform of guru by dependents of the institution is most usually a superficial consideration such as the act of initiating some newcomer as a disciple. The actual authentication for being a true guru and acharya requires more substance than the act of performing a formal initiation ceremony and accepting the first disciple. All it takes in ISKCON today to attain the status of guru is to acquire some paltry following of neophyte devotees, many of whom are very poorly equipped with sufficient knowledge and understanding to actually make a proper informed decision in the matter of accepting a spiritual master. It seems that if some career sannyasi in ISKCON can manage to garner a single individual disciple from the ranks of the naïve and gullible ISKCON congregation, then he has miraculously become a spiritual master and on his way to becoming another casualty of the institution as a career guru. In many ways these “gurus” are victims of the institution, yet also they can bee seen as perpetrators of a flawed lifestyle of institutional over-dependence. Part of the history and tradition of all the great acharyas and preachers, including Srila Prabhupada, is that they have all made their own way and accomplished their own successes without dependence and assistance from the mother mission. History records that Srila Prabhupada had to go it alone and make his own way as a preacher without using the institution of his spiritual master as a platform for amassing disciples as a career guru in the institution. The career guru phenomena is not exclusively an ISKCON phenomena but was also a fact and a feature of the Gaudiya Matha after the passing of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur. Caste Goswamis and many descendents of various gurus and parivars in India have been conducting career spiritual master trades for many centuries, so it is not surprising to find the phenomena taking shape in an aging institution such as ISKCON. What we must all ask ourselves and each other now is whether or not this career guru phenomena in ISKCON is really going to do anything to sustain and promote the original purpose of the mission, or if it is creating a bad precedent for future generations and weakening the order of sannyasa as the backbone of a strong and vital Daiva Varnashram sub-culture. If the spiritual leaders of the Daiva Varnashram culture become spoiled dependents of the institution, living somewhat lavish and pampered lifestyles, then what sort of strength and leadership can these men offer society? When the great ascetic order of sannyasa becomes a cushy situation of private quarters and kingly treatment, then the spiritual vitality of the whole institution and the whole spiritual community becomes greatly compromised. Obese institutional acharyas setting on thrones in the great temples and holy dhams, living lives of pampered luxury is a pathetic example of spiritual leadership and a case study in what not to do in the pursuit of spiritual perfection. At the sacrifice of personal bhajan and inner development, career gurus give themselves over to management duties in the name of guru seva and become contingent upon the institution and totally habituated to luxury and preferential treatment. Perhaps, this phenomena of institutional over-dependence and career gurus in ISKCON needs to be looked at and examined for it’s intrinsic value to find out if it is actually beneficial to the true spirit of ISKCON and the order of sannyasa or if it is actually promoting and perpetuating weakness and failure of the institution as a humanitarian mission on behalf of Lord Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

When I hear or read Srila B.S. Govinda Maharaja talk about "love and affection" it gives a fallen person like me some hope. If the basis of Krsna Consciousness is love and affection then if by Divine Mercy we have received even a drop of that then it becomes our responsibility to give to other what we have gotten. Some times we may be compromised by family duties, having to secure an income and so many things. Then at least we can treat those who are fellow practioners with some, just some love and affection. Everyone whether they are an official follower or not can benefit so much from the association of Srila Bhakti Sundar-dev Gosvami Maharaja.

I'm sorry, but I just can't handle this. I don't believe that TKG was qualified to be put in a "samadhi" next to Srila Prabhupada. How do you spell rigamortis. Rigamortis: RIGAMORTIS. Rigamortis then no samadhi. No samadhi then no murti. Sorry but reality defeats fantasy.