Shakti-Fan

As Prabhupada once said during the installation of the Radha Krsna dieties in L.A. ,"be careful you are dealing with Krsna." Krsna's nature is acintya bheda - abheda tattva. Every aspect of Krsna and His multifareous energies are simultaneously one and differents from themselves. First off specific topic you are discusing first must be seperated from the rtvik/diksha issue. Krsna can reveal Himself through the agency of guru however He wants. So if He wants that revelation can come through Prabhupada's books. At the same time we cannot ignore Srila Prabhupada's description of Narada Muni's childhood service to the "Bhaktivedantas: "But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant’s son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva." I can't recall the verse In Gita that Srila Sridhar Maharaja paraphrases but he says that Krsna says, "I am there but I am not there. I am everywhere but I am no where. I don't think that the poster Guruvani sees this and you appear to now be going down the same road. Just when you think you have Krsna all figured out, then you don't. Try to have a balanced approach. "Be careful you are dealing with Krsna."

Some faith is always required. When you lay down in bed at night you have faith that you will wake up. Otherwise if you thought that by going to sleep you would die then you would try to stay up all night. I know I would. In another vein, suppose two persons had the exact same divine vision. Perhaps they would experience some kind of divine rapture. The next day one person might decide to dedicate their life to God and the other person might conclude that the vision was merely an hallucination, a function of some kind of change in brain chemistry. So faith is there everywhere. We have been told by our teachers that in this Age the effective way to realise God is to chant His Holy Names. Here is a simple explanation by my spiritual master: ... the Supreme Lord can be appreciated only by devotional service. Therefore, one should be fully devoted. One should fix his mind fully on Kṛṣṇa in order to achieve Him. One should work only for Kṛṣṇa. It does not matter in what kind of work one engages, but that work should be done only for Kṛṣṇa. That is the standard of devotional service. The devotee does not desire any achievement other than pleasing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His life's mission is to please Kṛṣṇa, and he can sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, just as Arjuna did in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. The process is very simple: one can devote himself in his occupation and engage at the same time in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Such transcendental chanting attracts the devotee to the Personality of Godhead. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 12.6-7 (excerpt from the Bhaktivedanta Purport)

The subject of the Bhagavad-gītā entails the comprehension of five basic truths. First of all, the science of God is explained and then the constitutional position of the living entities, jīvas. There is īśvara, which means the controller, and there are jīvas, the living entities which are controlled. If a living entity says that he is not controlled but that he is free, then he is insane. The living being is controlled in every respect, at least in his conditioned life. So in the Bhagavad-gītā the subject matter deals with the īśvara, the supreme controller, and the jīvas, the controlled living entities. Prakṛti (material nature) and time (the duration of existence of the whole universe or the manifestation of material nature) and karma (activity) are also discussed. The cosmic manifestation is full of different activities. All living entities are engaged in different activities. From Bhagavad-gītā we must learn what God is, what the living entities are, what prakṛti is, what the cosmic manifestation is, how it is controlled by time, and what the activities of the living entities are. Out of these five basic subject matters in Bhagavad-gītā it is established that the Supreme Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa, or Brahman, or the supreme controller, or Paramātmā — you may use whatever name you like — is the greatest of all. The living beings are in quality like the supreme controller. For instance, the Lord has control over the universal affairs of material nature, as will be explained in the later chapters of Bhagavad-gītā. Material nature is not independent. She is acting under the directions of the Supreme Lord. As Lord Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: "This material nature is working under My direction." When we see wonderful things happening in the cosmic nature, we should know that behind this cosmic manifestation there is a controller. Nothing could be manifested without being controlled. It is childish not to consider the controller. For instance, a child may think that an automobile is quite wonderful to be able to run without a horse or other animal pulling it, but a sane man knows the nature of the automobile's engineering arrangement. He always knows that behind the machinery there is a man, a driver. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the driver under whose direction everything is working. Now the jīvas, or the living entities, have been accepted by the Lord, as we will note in the later chapters, as His parts and parcels. A particle of gold is also gold, a drop of water from the ocean is also salty, and similarly we the living entities, being part and parcel of the supreme controller, īśvara, or Bhagavān, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, have all the qualities of the Supreme Lord in minute quantity because we are minute īśvaras, subordinate īśvaras. We are trying to control nature, as presently we are trying to control space or planets, and this tendency to control is there because it is in Kṛṣṇa. But although we have a tendency to lord it over material nature, we should know that we are not the supreme controller. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā. What is material nature? This is also explained in Gītā as inferior prakṛti, inferior nature. The living entity is explained as the superior prakṛti. Prakṛti is always under control, whether inferior or superior. Prakṛti is female, and she is controlled by the Lord just as the activities of a wife are controlled by the husband. Prakṛti is always subordinate, predominated by the Lord, who is the predominator. The living entities and material nature are both predominated, controlled by the Supreme Lord. According to the Gītā, the living entities, although parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, are to be considered prakṛti. This is clearly mentioned in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. Apareyam itas tv anyāḿ prakṛtiḿ viddhi me parām/ jīva-bhūtām: "This material nature is My inferior prakṛti, but beyond this is another prakṛti — jīva-bhūtām, the living entity." Material nature itself is constituted by three qualities: the mode of goodness, the mode of passion and the mode of ignorance. Above these modes there is eternal time, and by a combination of these modes of nature and under the control and purview of eternal time there are activities, which are called karma. These activities are being carried out from time immemorial, and we are suffering or enjoying the fruits of our activities. For instance, suppose I am a businessman and have worked very hard with intelligence and have amassed a great bank balance. Then I am an enjoyer. But then say I have lost all my money in business; then I am a sufferer. Similarly, in every field of life we enjoy the results of our work, or we suffer the results. This is called karma. Īśvara (the Supreme Lord), jīva (the living entity), prakṛti (nature), kāla (eternal time) and karma (activity) are all explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Out of these five, the Lord, the living entities, material nature and time are eternal. The manifestation of prakṛti may be temporary, but it is not false. Some philosophers say that the manifestation of material nature is false, but according to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā or according to the philosophy of the Vaiṣṇavas, this is not so. The manifestation of the world is not accepted as false; it is accepted as real, but temporary. It is likened unto a cloud which moves across the sky, or the coming of the rainy season, which nourishes grains. As soon as the rainy season is over and as soon as the cloud goes away, all the crops which were nourished by the rain dry up. Similarly, this material manifestation takes place at a certain interval, stays for a while and then disappears. Such are the workings of prakṛti. But this cycle is working eternally. Therefore prakṛti is eternal; it is not false. The Lord refers to this as "My prakṛti." This material nature is the separated energy of the Supreme Lord, and similarly the living entities are also the energy of the Supreme Lord, although they are not separated but eternally related. So the Lord, the living entity, material nature and time are all interrelated and are all eternal. However, the other item, karma, is not eternal. The effects of karma may be very old indeed. We are suffering or enjoying the results of our activities from time immemorial, but we can change the results of our karma, or our activity, and this change depends on the perfection of our knowledge. We are engaged in various activities. Undoubtedly we do not know what sort of activities we should adopt to gain relief from the actions and reactions of all these activities, but this is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. The position of īśvara, the Supreme Lord, is that of supreme consciousness. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is The Introduction Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

From The Search For Sri Krishna, Reality The Beautiful by Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaj, Chapter One: jnanam te' ham sa-vijnanam idam vaksyamy aesatah yaj jnatva neha bhuyo 'nyaj jnatavyam avasisyate In the Bhagavad-gita (7.2) Krsna says, "Arjuna, now I shall explain to you scientific knowledge not only about the soul, but also about its potency. The mind, the senses, and the modes of nature are all non-atma, or material. There is a direct and indirect approach towards reality which I shall now explain to you. Please listen attentively to Me: jnanam te 'ham sa vijnanam. What is this? There is Myself and My potency, and the jiva, the living entity, is the marginal potency which is filling up all these material worlds." If the jiva-sakti, the spiritual potency, were withdrawn, then everything would be stone, and who would care for exploitation? All this fighting tendency, this tendency for exploitation would stop if the marginal potency, the jiva, were withdrawn from matter. Everything would be dead. The soul has entered into this material consciousness and has made it a moving thing. You should understand this properly, in a scientific way. We are not lacking in our ability to give you a scientific explanation.

Direct approach up to me is not proper approach. But approaching through proper channel, through the devotees, that is proper approach. That is real approach. So Gaudiya Math eliminates Mira Bai and so many other apparent devotees to be real devotees. Why? Because they are mad in praise of Krishna, but no so much for the devotees of Krishna. Krishna is not alone. A king is not alone. King means so many—big establishment. And to approach the king, if it is real, then the approach must be through a channel. So Krishna means he is already surrounded by a big hierarchy, a big bureaucracy. To approach, one cannot approach direct. If his approach is real, he must select a particular channel. And he cannot but praise them, revere them and their magnanimity. It is by their help only we can get the nearness of Krishna. Otherwise not. [bengali:"A horse leaps over the trough in search of food."] One will take a leap across the whole system and then approach the king? It is avastava—unreal. So when one is engaged so much, apparently, that he is a great devotee of Krishna, eliminating the devotee class, then that devotion has not come to take the shape of real approach. It is a vague thing. He is far from Krishna. — Srila Sridhar Maharaja

One time a western devotee was asking Srila Sridhar Maharaja the same questions over and over again. Srila Sridhar Maharaja told him that since he was somewhat senior, he should know the answer. Guru Maharaja explained that "this is a system, you must know the system". A moment later when the same devotee asked another foolish question Maharaja replied, "I am not a question and answer machine!" You have to balance this episode with the fact that the great book by Srila Sridhar Maharaja, "Sri Guru and His Grace" came from answers that SM gave to inquiring devotees all of whom were Prabhupada disciples. "Sri Guru and His Grace" is one of the most definitive works on guru tattva available in English and it is a must read for anyone who really wants to know the truth about guru and Krsna. Remember from the viewpoint of Vaisnavism every thing is ultimately a person. So the Bhavavatam, the book Bhagavat is ultimately Krsna. The guru is not Krsna, although we are told "sakshadhari tvena samasta sastrair". The guru is Krsna's shakti (therefore from that angle the guru is Krsna) and who is the full embodiment of Krsna's shakti?

Generally when Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja and other modern English speaking acaryas use the word knowledge in the context of Krsna Consciousness they are actually refering to transcendental knowledge. Transcendental knowledge is really knowledge in Krsna Consciousness or bhakti itself. By the word bhakti they are referring to suddha bhakti or pure devotional service. If suddha bhakti exists in the heart then there will be rati or even bhava. Even hearing has a relative aspect. You can hear from a suddha bhakta sadhu directly or through an electronic medium. When we hear the recordings of Srila Prabhpada's bhajans we can sense the transcendental emotions or bhavas that he is feeling. Many devotees have told me that while listening to his bhajans through electronic media they have had some kind of transcendental experience or at least a shadow of one. Some times when one hears Srila Sridhar Maharaja's recordings you can just hear is transcendental bliss pouring into your ears. Of course it doesn't always happen and you can't expect it or expect anything. But when I just read the books I remember hearing either live or through electronic media and then with that memory the books become more alive to me. I have met brand new people who have only read and generally they miss certain major concepts. I have also met new people who have had amazing experiences just by reading the books. Others have begun chanting just by taking the advice of the books and had amazing experiences. So both are necessary: hearing from the sadhu and reading his books. Then some reciprocation through service must be there from our side. Krsna is the most subtle, no matter how much we debate these issues He many choose to remain beyond our grasp. He is adhoksaja, beyond our mind and our senses. Sometimes we are hearing or reading and serving with our mind and senses. That's good at a certain stage but at a certain point if our heart does not become involved then it will remain like cast iron. Generally hearing will accelarate the process of melting the hard heart. But no one really knows if, when or how Krsna will decide to reveal Himself.

We are speaking of non-Indian devotees only. Even in places like Russia most SCSM devotees had some ISKCON contact even superficially, (devotees or books) before contact with SCSM. ISKCON does a very good job of introducing people to Krsna Consciousness. Many of those who are introduced immediately see ISKCON's current contradictions and seek out a spritual master that they feel they can trust, such as Srila Govinda Maharaja. This just happens to be the contemporary situation in the world of spreading Krsna Consciousness. Its not that devotees of SCSM International are envious of Prabhupada. Srila Govinda Maharaja had an intimate relationship with him as many know. So ISKCONites and Prabhupada Onlyites should not be suprised when people they have preached to or even those who have lived in ISKCON temples join the SCSM or other Maths. Devotees want a sadhu who they can trust and who will not fall down.

99% of the leading and senior devotees in all the Sridhar Maharaja factions, the Narayana Maharaja camp, both Puri Maharaja camps and so on are ex ISKCON devotees. Of those about 40% are direct Prabhupada disciples. If you go to Vrndavana in Kartika you will find about 60% of the non-Indian devotees are from Gaudiya Math off-shoots, although ISKCON has far more devotees worldwide. Devotees sometimes change camps some leave ISKCON and some go back to ISKCON or become Rtviks. If you love Prabhupada then tell others about Prabhupada but you have to recognize that others will love their guru and their sanga and want to bring you in. Just like you will want to bring others into the Prabhupada only camp. It works both ways. What to do? Trnadapi sunicena...

This makes it all crystal clear.

According to Srila Saraswati Thakur, Srila Bhaktivinode identified himself more with the line of Srila Jagannatha das Babji in his (Bhaktivinode's) later years.

According to the writings of Thakur Bhaktivinode, he received direct darshan and instructions from Sri Swarupa Damodar, and others. Was Sri Swarupa Damodar coming to him as a corporal (physical) person? Of course not, he appeared as concetrated sound vibration, but none the less in a form that could be seen or revealed by divinity. So the connection of Sri Madhvacharya and Srila Vyasadeva was not part of a bodily succesion. I too have had visions but since I spend most of my waking hours hankering and lamenting I cannot allow myself to take them seriously. Acid flashbacks? So we must have faith in the writings of the great souls which are actually sastra and doubt our own minds.

Qualify "free will" as "minute free will" as Prabhupada put it.

Good instruction. I'm sure that it applies to 99.9% of us. This also includes those of us who have recently had association with a sadhu and have had that sadhu's adivices "go in one ear and out the other".

A good plug for individuality rather than "groupthink" where all the posters are hoping that everyone will see everything the exact way they do. Oh How disappointing it is when they do not! Or for that matter the illusion that during Prabhupada's time Gaudiya Vaisnavism was somehow united. Only the Popes of Christiandom with their armies could pull it off, and even then at what price? This is what the GBC tried to do. Are the Anti-GBCites really just a reflection of what they oppose?

Yes, there were no books available. But can a succession be broken even if there are books? What if one misinterprets and misunderstands the books?

Can you give sastric evidence of this? Can you find a quote of Srila Sridhar Maharaja telling this?

In the poem "Sri Guru-Parampara" by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada writes, "madhva kohe vyasa-das". "Vyasa trasmitted this knowledge to Madvacarya". He knows this from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and Srila Gaurakishora das Babaji. Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada was taught this by his gurudeva.

Wait a minute here. I'm the sahajiya around here, NOT YOU!!!! :eek: And you can quote me on that! Wait a minute, what did I just say? Yes, I'm going mad, Audarya Fellowships is driving me mad, quite mad. Wait a minute I've got to get a grip. Maybe a double mango lassi will help. Yeah thats it a double mango lassi.:eek:

True, but it is now a valid historical document that gives insight into Srila Prabhupada's pre-ISKCON lila. Can you give proof that Srila Prabhupada NEVER authorized this letter to be circulated publicly...? If you can show no evidence then how can you get on such a "high horse" and proclaim despicable abuse? If you had such deep insight into Srila Prabhupada's thoughts then you would have to be on the same level as he. Then you would be a "self-effulgent acarya". As this point you have only Srila Prabhupada's books, tapes, letters etc. as they are filtered through your mind. Do you assume that your mind is pure?

The question is: They were dear to him in on Oct. 22, 1968 because they were no longer dear to him on that date or the English past tense is used because they had passed away? How can you jump to such conclusions without carefully studying the situation?

Thats the diksa line of Sri Srimad Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Gosvami Maharaja. His organization is not the "Gaudiya Math" that is being discussed. From an organizational standpoint the "Gaudiya Math" no longer exists.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: After sravan, then varan, five stages there are; first is to hear. The first stage is to hear and the second stage, that is varan, that is, acceptance by the guru and the sisya, both the preceptor and the disciple. That is the second stage, varan dasa. Then the sadhana or the attempt for realization will begin. First stage, to hear openly, open field-fair field to hear-then the connection should come between the guru and sisya-preceptor and disciple, both sides. Then that should be better. Sravan dasa, then varan, then sadhana dasa, apan dasa, prapan dasa-five stages in sadhana in spiritual life. Submission to guru is unconditional. So when I shall see that my guru is being oppressed by another guru, another Vaisnava, it will create a great disturbance in the mind of the sisya. But our Krsna conscious conception of Godhead has come to relieve you. Whom we think the Supreme-most Krsna, Yasoda is whipping Him and Nanda's paduka (shoes), He is taking them on His head-the Supreme-most devata, Deity. So in this way also, we can adjust-both the absolute faith and the relative position of the non-absolute. These two things should be harmonized. After the departure of our gurudeva, it was thought that one acarya should be made-then, naturally, different acaryas came. Then when some of us proposed many acaryas, I told one thing. If someone marries, a separate room is necessary. Do you follow? Whenever a Vaisnava does not initiate he does not want any special place or special respect, but whenever he initiates, he is absolute in the eyes of his disciples. The sisya cannot tolerate that any other Vaisnava will come to disturb the absolute position of my guru. This heart's feeling-sentiment. How to adjust, it is a very difficult thing.

Exactly, 64 Gaudiya Maths is not just a math or a temple. Also why not view Srila Prabhupada in the light of his Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada in the light of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. Krsna, Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu, Rupa Goswami and the entire guru varga all coming through Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who is Shaktyavesa avatara (specifically of Nityananda Prabhu).

Gaudiya Math From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search <!-- start content --> Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, founder-acharya of Gaudiya Math Shortly after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura took the renounced order of Sanyasa in 1918, the Gaudiya Math was organized. Its purpose was to spread Gaudiya Vaishnavism throughout India through preaching and publishing work. Eventually, sixty-four (64) branches of temples, ashrams, and mathas were established, with the Caitanya Gaudiya Math as the flagship math of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. An effort was made to preach to European countries by the Gaudiya Math in the 1930's, but only reaped a handful of longtime adherents, such as E.G.Schulze of Germany, who became Sadananda Swami, and later, Walther Eidlitz of Austria, who became Vamana dasa. With Bhaktisiddhanta's death in 1937, the mathas and disciples lost the cohesiveness and unity that they once enjoyed during his life of preaching. The disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta founded their own mathas and organizations and became Acharyas. The most famous organization created by a disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta was ISKCON by Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who spread Gaudiya Vaishnavism worldwide like no other. Other prominent Mathas are Sri Gaudiya Math whos acharya is Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja, Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission founded by Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj, Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math founded by Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja and Sri Gopinath Gaudiya Math founded by Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaja.