Beggar

By the way "with a material hankering" in this passage, means with a substantial hankering.

Sacre bleau!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sermons of the Guardian of Devotion Volume Two Srila Sridhar Maharaj: There was one Parvat Maharaj who lived next door to Bhaktivinoda Thakura when he passed his old age in Godruma. "To spread the Holy Name around..." Parvat Maharaj said that there was only a partition wall between his house and Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s. That was at Surabhi Kunja. From about three o'clock in the morning, Bhaktivinoda Thakura would rise and take the Name of Krsna, the Mahamantra , at the top of his voice. Parvat Maharaj described it like this. As though calling someone from afar - with this spirit Bhaktivinoda Thakura would chant the Holy Name. That Maharaj was astonished to see such behavior. There was a cement chair, and when Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura felt tired he took his seat and rested there awhile. And then after some time he would again wander in the garden, chanting at the top of his voice, "Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna !" With such animation in his voice he was calling - calling a person; with this spirit, and not in a formal way, but with a material hankering, he was calling for the Lord. There was another thing I also heard about him from another source, Ram Gopal Vidyabhusana, an M.A. and Barrister-at-law. Ram Gopal Vidyabhusana told me, "Once we went to visit him. We had heard that a Government officer, an educated man, had become a Vaisnava Babaji. So we went to see him, and someone amongst us asked him, 'Please speak something about Krsna and Krsna-nama (the Holy Name of Krsna).' "After a moment, Bhaktivinoda Thakura then said, 'Oh, you want to hear something about Krsna, you want? You want Krsna-nama ?' In this way he continued for some time: 'Krsna? You are so fortunate? You have come to hear Krsna-nama?' "Then the consequence of that inquiry had such an influence on his body and mind, that as it is written by him personally in his own poem, Sri-Nama-Mahatmya : krsna-nama dhare kata bala visaya-vasananale, mora citta sada jvale, ravi-tapta marubhumi sama; karna-randhra patha diya, hrdi majhe pravesiya varisaya sudha anupama [1] hrdaya haite bale, jihvara agrete cale, sabda-rupe nace anuksana; kanthe more bhange svara, anga kape thara thara, sthira haite na pare carana [2] cakse dhara, dehe gharmma, pulakita saba carmma, vivarna haila kalevara; murcchita haila mana, pralayera agamana, bhave sarva-deha jara jara [3] kari' eta upadrava, citte varse sudhadrava, more dare premera sagare; kichu na bujhite dila, more ta' batula kaila, mora citta-vitta saba hare [4] lainu asraya ya'ra, hena vyavahara ta'ra balite na pari e sakala; krsna-nama icchamaya, yahe yahe sukhi haya, sei mora sukhera sambala [5] premera kalika nama, adbhuta rasera dhama, hena bala karaye prakasa; isat vikasi' punah, dekhaya nija-rupa-guna, citta hari' laya krsna-pasa [6] purna vikasita hanya, vraje more yaya lanya, dekhaya more svarupa - vilasa; more siddha deha diya, krsna-pase rakhe giya, e dehera kare sarva-nasa [7] krsna-nama cintamani, akhila-rasera khani, nitya-mukta suddha-rasamaya; namera balai yata, saba lay 'e hai hata, tabe mora sukhera udaya [8] Cakse dhara - From my eyes tears flowed; dehe gharmma - my body perspired; murcchita haila mana - I fell into a faint; kari' eta upadrava - the Holy Name created a great turmoil in me; cite varse sudha-drava - causing a rain of nectarine current in my heart; more dare premera sagare -and casting me into the ocean of ecstasy, of Love; kichu na bujhite dila, more ta' batula kaila - I could not feel the environment around me, and became as though mad; mora citta-vitta saba hare - I lost myself in that thought. For an illuminating full translation extracted from Srila Sridhar Maharaj's informal talks, see p.126-129, Search for Sri Krsna: Reality the Beautiful, published by Guardian of Devotion Press. - Ed. (search for Saranagati) That gentleman, Ram Gopal Vidyabhusana said, "I saw with my own eyes that all these symptoms were displayed in his body and mind, simply upon hearing our inquiry. Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, 'You are so fortunate, you have come to hear Krsna-nama from me? Krsna - ! Krsna - !' In this way, he entered into another domain, and so many symptoms and expressions appeared in his body and mind - convulsions, tears, all these things." I heard this from an eye-witness.

Where I come from son, we don't call our murtis, idols. We call them dieties!

Sarva gattah, try: http://bvml.org/SBRSM/tdothn.html

If you're going to rtvik loka, there's going to be some gentle people there. All across the ISKCON nation there's a new generation, there's a new vibration, rtivks in motion, rtiviks in motion... If you're going to rtvik loka, be sure to put a flower in your hair. If you're going to rtvik loka... Help the Rtviks are coming!!!

Sarva gattah has regressed based on the fear that if he shows some understanding of another position he will lose his own.

What you call rtvik is really hard rtvik. ISKCON is soft rtvik.

The discussion was really initially how to see that there is no contradiction in Srila Prabhupada's teachings about the origin of the soul. The only reason some devotees see a contradiction is because two different angles of vision are there. Here is a simple example: The concept of "back to godhead". How can you go "back" to a place where you already are? So from one angle we are in the material world and from another we are already there. In sastra it says that we were in the brahmajyoti part of godhead, it appears that Prabhupada said at least several times that we were in the spiritual planets. So we must go back to godhead. Some times Srila Prabhupada say that going back means to understand that you are already there. But that viewpoint does not supercede the others to the extent that you should conclude that Srila Prabhupada writing that "no one falls from Vaikuntha" is part of the "we are already there" scenerio. You have to calm down and stop propagandizing. We have gotten to the point that we have begun a real discussion and that is a small breakthough. In some ways we have already agreed to disagree on certain points but sometimes you lapse back into putting up a wall of rhetoric.

So does Srila Sridhar Maharaj for he knew that the brahmajyoti emanates from the transcendental body of Bhagavan. That's like saying that we are chanting the name of Krsna but do not realize that He is non-different from His name. And what keeps us from realizing that Krsna is non-different from His name? Our nama aparadha or offenses, but from another angle of vision, we are actually chanting nama aparadha rather than suddha nama (the pure name) or what Srila Sridhar Maharaj calls "the name proper". The same thing is true of the different angles of vision on the origin of the soul. It is not that one angle of vision cancels out the other.

So Mahaprabhu says, "Go on with sankirtana, the congregational chanting of the holy name of Krsna." Of course, sankirtana must be genuine, so association with saints is necessary. It is not an empirical attempt. We are attempting to have a connection with the higher, unconditioned realm which can descend to help us here. We must have that connection with higher reality, for that is all-important. The holy name of Krsna is not mere physical sound; it is not lip-deep only, but it has a greater and higher aspect (nama aksara bahiraya bate tabu name kabhu naya). It is all spiritual. We are in the marginal plane of existence, so some higher connection is necessary in order that the wave will descend from that higher realm and come to us and spread its influence outside as well. Wherever it goes, the sankirtana of the holy name of Krsna will produce these sevenfold results. This is the purport of Mahaprabhu's first verse. The first effect is that the holy name cleanses the soul which is attacked by the dirt of desires from the mundane world. By the second effect it gives mukti, liberation, perfect independence from material forces. The third effect brings real fortune: the opening of the soul's treasure. The innate resources of the soul are gradually awakened by the holy name of Krsna. Here, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu includes the other forms of relationship with the Personal Absolute. In describing the next step. He takes the mood of conjugal devotion, where one is absolutely disposed for Krsna's enjoyment, unconditionally surrendering everything for His maximum pleasure. "I Need Millions of Mouths!" The next effect is the tasting of His ecstatic association. In Vrndavana, the realm of Krsna, one who can chant the name of Krsna properly will express himself with a peculiar sort of ego: tunde tandavini ratim vitanute tundavali-labdhaye karna-kroda-kadambini ghatayate karnarbudebhyah sprham cetah-prangana-sanginivijayate sarvendriyanam krtim no jane janita kiyadbhir amrtaih krsneti varna-dvayi "When the holy name of Krsna appears on the lips of a devotee, it begins madly dancing. Then the name takes over and handles him as if the person to whom the lips belong loses all control over his lips, and the devotee says, 'With one mouth, how much can I gather the ecstasy of the holy name? I need millions of mouths to taste its unlimited sweetness. I'll never feel any satisfaction by chanting with only one mouth.'" When the sound "Krsna" enters the ear, he feels that transcendental sound awaken in his heart. "What are two ears?" he thinks. "This is the greatest injustice of the creator—I need millions of ears! Then, if I could hear the sweet name of Krsna, my heart might be a little satisfied. I want millions and millions of ears to hear the sweet name of Krsna." This is the temperament of a devotee when his attention is drawn towards the holy name. Then he faints; he loses himself, merging in an ocean of ecstasy and joy. And in great disappointment he says, "I failed to understand the quality and quantity of the substance of Krsna's name. I am perplexed. What sort of honey sweetness does this name contain?" In this way, the chanter of the name wonders. Krsna's Mystic Flute-song This has been taught to us by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who said, "Properly chant the holy name, the sound representation of absolute sweetness." That sweetness is also to be found in the flute-song of the Lord. The sound of Krsna's flute has the great mystic power of capturing and pleasing everyone and everything. Upon hearing the sound of Krsna's flute, the Yamuna's current is paralyzed. The sweet sound of Krsna's flute attracts the trees, the birds, and the beasts. Everything is astounded by contacting the sweet vibration from Krsna's flute. Sound vibration can work miracles; sound has the highest capturing potency. Sound can make or mar. It can do anything; it has such intrinsic capacity. It comes from the subtlemost plane, beyond the ether. That universal sound is absolute sweetness and goodness. How much power is there—how it can capture us! Like a blade of grass, we may be played by the current of that sweet sound in such a way that we cannot even trace out our own personality. We may lose ourselves there, but we do not die; the soul is eternal. Diving, up and down, we are played by the current of the sweet sound. We are less qualified than a straw, a blade of grass, and the Krsna sound is so big and so sweet that it can play us in any way it likes. We cannot begin to conceive how much power is in the name, the sound which is identical with absolute goodness and sweetness. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, "Don't neglect the sound which is one and the same with Krsna." Absolute sweetness and goodness—everything is there within the holy name. And the holy name is representing itself to us in a very cheap way: nothing is required to purchase it—no money, no physical energy. All these things are unnecessary. What is required? Sincerity. One who simply takes this divine sound sincerely will be so enriched that no one will be able to conceive of so much goodness and development. And anyone may have it very cheaply, but one must chant sincerely with his whole heart. Of course, wholehearted sincerity presupposes going to a proper agent, a saint, and getting the holy name from him. Sri krsna sankirtana is praised by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the inaugurator of the sankirtana movement who came as Radha-Govinda combined. His advice is most valuable and necessary to tell us that with a sincere spirit we must come to join this sri krsna sankirtana, the most purifying transcendental sound, which effects liberation, gives all fulfillment, and grants us such a positive attainment that we lose ourselves in the ocean of joy and inconceivable sweetness. This is Sriman Mahaprabhu's grace, and He proclaims, "Let sri krsna sankirtana be expanded into this mortal world, that it may benefit everyone infinitely, for this is the highest and greatest benefit for the whole world. It is all-comprehensive. It releases us from all sorts of troubles, establishing us in the highest position of attainment." And in this present degraded age of Kali, only nama-sankirtana can help us. Of course, nama-sankirtana is beneficial in all ages, but it is especially recommended in Kali-yuga, because in this age all other attempts will be opposed by many forces. Nama-sankirtana cannot be opposed by the troubles and waves of this material world, so one must adopt it. If we exclusively give ourselves to this, we will gain the highest fulfillment of life. There is no necessity of any other campaign, for they are all defective and partial. But the most universal, captivating, and beneficial thing is nama-sankirtana, which takes us to the highest goal. That alone can satisfy everyone. All souls that are now disconnected from Krsna may be helped in this way. No other movement is necessary. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu tells us, "Exclusively devote yourself to this. It is all-embracing and all-fulfilling. And you can achieve it with the least trouble and least energy. Let it flourish in this Kali-yuga—let it flourish for the welfare of the whole universe, to reestablish all souls in their normal position." In the last verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam the conclusion of the book is given as follows: nama sankirtanam yasya sarva papa pranasanam pranamo duhkhasamanas tam namami harim param Papa means all anomalies, all undesirable things: sin. Material enjoyment and liberation are also included as anomalies, sinful activities. Why is liberation considered sinful? Because it is an abnormal condition; our natural function is to serve Krsna, but we do not do that in salvation. Mere salvation does not include service to Krsna, so that is an abnormal position and therefore it is also a sin. To ignore our natural duty and stand aloof cannot but be sinful. The Spiritual Gift of Vyasa The concluding verse of the Srimad-Bhagavatam says, "Krsna's holy name can relieve us from all undesirable sinfulness, all filthy characteristics, and all miseries. Let us all bow down to Him." Uttering this verse, the Srimad-Bhagavatam stops; that great treatise becomes silent. The last word in the Bhagavatam is nama-sankirtana. The Bha-gavatam has given such great importance to chanting of the holy name of Krsna, and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu developed it from there. The last publication of the compiler of Vedic literatures, Srila Vyasadeva, took theism to that stage, and gave it to the public announcing, "Chant the name of Krsna! Do this; nothing more is necessary. Take this!" This is the very conclusion of Srimad-Bhag-avatam, the greatest spiritual gift of Vyasadeva: "Chant the holy name of Krsna and begin your life in this dark age with the most broad and wide theistic conception." Nectar of the Nectarine We may consider ourselves fortunate that we have come to the verge of this most generous and useful thought, that we have come close enough to touch it, to accept it, and float ourselves in its waves according to our capacity. After passing through so many conceptions and the charm of different prospects, we have left them all behind and have come to the shore of the ocean of ndma-sankirtana. Now we may throw our bodies in this ocean and begin to swim in the waves of nama-sankirtana, the nectar of the nectarine, by the grace of our guru and the mercy of the Vaisnavas. It is their property, and we are their slaves. We have such audacity to throw our body into this ocean of ndma-sankirtana and swim in that nectarine ocean! Swimming in Radha-kunda, the highest conception of spiritual attainment, can also be found in the highest form of ndma-sankirtana. This verse represents the positive side of the unlimited ocean of sri krsna sankirtana. The next verse explains the negative possibilities. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given his Sanskrit commentary on the Siksastakam, as well as his Bengali translation, and his is a most original presentation. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada has also given his commentary on the Siksastakam. They should be carefully studied in order to understand these points more completely. In these talks, however, I am simply coming out with whatever I feel in my heart. Whatever comes to my mind on these verses, I am expressing, and that is the outcome of what I have collected from Srila Bhaktisid-dhanta Saraswati Thakura, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and all the predecessor aeon/as. By their grace that is gathered in my storehouse, and I am trying to give the gist of these things. The Krsna Conception Conquers All By accepting the path of devotion, a wholesale transformation of our internal system begins, and gradually our charm for the outside world vanishes. There is a war within, and when the Krsna conception enters into the heart of a devotee, all other thoughts and ideas gradually have to retire. This is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.8.5): pravistah kama-randhrena svanam bhava-saroruham dhunoti samalam krsnah salilasya yatha sarat When the autumn season appears, the mud within the water vanishes. In the same way, when the Krsna conception enters into one's heart, all other conceptions and aspirations will gradually have to retire, leaving Krsna in possession of everything. When a real drop of Krsna consciousness enters the heart, all opposing forces must leave and Krsna will conquer and take possession of the whole. That is the nature of Krsna consciousness: nothing can stand in competition with it, not even so-called devotion for the demigods or faith in creeds like Christianity, Islam, and others. All other conceptions of theism have to retire, leaving the field to the Krsna conception. No aggressors can stand in the tight with Krsna consciousness, the absolute, sweet beauty. Beauty, sweetness, and charm can capture and defeat power. We are really aspiring after beauty and sweetness, mercy, affection, divine love (prema). Self-dissipation—to compensate others with one's own energy and generosity—ultimately conquers everyone. It is more rewarding to give than to take. Divine love means die to live: not to live for yourself, but to live for others. The most generous form of life—self-forgetfulness to the extreme—is found in Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is so beautiful that one who develops it loses his own identification and existence also. He becomes totally self-forgetful. Such a charm is there. Who will stand to tight against Krsna? Everyone who comes to fight against Him is disarmed. If in any way Krsna enters the heart, there can be no other consequence but that He takes possession of everything. Such a benevolent, generous, and sweet person is Krsna: reality the beautiful.

The Golden Volcano of Divine Love Srila Bhakti Rasaka Sridhar-dev Maharaj Part Two The Precepts of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu The Holy Name of Krsna ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam sreyah-kairava-candrika-vitaranamvidya-vadhu-jivanam anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam Translation "The holy name of Krsna cleanses the mirror of the heart and extinguishes the fire of misery in the forest of birth and death. As the evening lotus blooms in the moon's cooling rays, the heart begins to blossom in the nectar of the name. And at last the soul awakens to its real inner treasure —a life of love with Krsna. Again and again tasting nectar, the soul dives and surfaces in the ever-increasing ocean of ecstatic joy. All phases of the self of which we may conceive are fully satisfied and purified, and at last conquered by the all-auspicious influence of the holy name of Krsna." Illumination Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the pioneer of Sri Krsna sankirtana. He said, "I have come to inaugurate the chanting of the holy name of Krsna, and that name will reach every nook and corner of the universe (prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama sarvatra pracara haibe mora nama}." What is the meaning of sankirtana? Samyak means "full" and kirtana means "chanting." Together, these two words form the word sankirtana which generally means "congregational chanting of the holy name of Krsna." But samyak means full not only in quantity but also in quality. Full quantity means extensive in number: congregational. Full quality means complete praise. Complete praise can only mean the glorification of Krsna, and not any other gods. So sankirtana means complete kirtana, a song in praise of the complete whole, the Absolute Truth; anything else is only a partial representation and therefore defective to a certain extent. Therefore, Krsna should be praised. His glories should be chanted, for He is everything. He is the master, the dispenser of both good and bad, the Absolute Controller of everything. Everything is due to Him. The fulfillment of all life is reached in Him alone. Just as a horse may have reins to check his movements, but if let loose will run freely, praise which is unchecked by any mundane purpose will run straight towards the Supreme Cause, Krsna. The word sri means Laksmidevi: Krsna's potency. This means that in sankirtana, Krsna is worshiped along with His potency, for Krsna's potency is included within Him. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that sri krsna sankirtana should thrive throughout the world; it should be victorious without any hindrance (param vijayate sri-krsna san-kirtanam). It should be a spontaneous, unchecked, and natural flow. It should be exclusive, independent, and without reservation. And this praise of Krsna should be congregationally chanted—that vibration is beneficial for the whole world. Only by surrender and pure devotion can we take to sri krsna sankirtana. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare Cleansing the Mirror of the Mind What are the different stages through which we will pass while chanting the holy name of Krsna? The first stage is that it cleanses the mirror of the mind. If the mirror of the mental system is covered with dust, we cannot see things clearly, and scriptural advice cannot be properly reflected there. What are the different kinds of dust covering the mirror of the mind? Our infinite, fleeting, and organized desires are considered dust, and our hearts and minds are covered with layers and layers of this dust. Therefore we cannot see things properly; they cannot properly reflect in our mind because it is covered with the infinite ordinary desires of this mundane world (bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami—sakali 'asanta). So the first effect of sri krsna sankirtana is the cleansing of the mind. The Vedic social system (varnasrama-dharma) has been formed for this purpose. If we discharge our social duties perfectly, without any attraction for the consequences, we achieve purification of our consciousness—but the first installment of nama-sankirtana gives us the end result of varnasrama-dharma: purification of the heart and mind. Then we can understand Vedic advice properly. The next effect of chanting the holy name is that it extinguishes the fire of material existence in the forest of repeated birth and death. We are forced to come into creation and again die. The mundane wave catches the soul which mingles with that vibration in different stages. That is stopped by the second effect of sri krsna sankirtana, and we become liberated. With the first stride, the intelligence is purified. With the second stride, the holy name effects liberation from the great conflagration of threefold miseries. The threefold miseries are adhydtmika: miseries within the body and mind, such as disease and mental anxiety; adhi-bhautika: miseries from our neighbors: man, beasts, insects, and so many other living beings; and adhidaivika: natural catastrophes like famine, flood, and earthquake. We have to suffer from these three kinds of miseries which burn in our heart like fire. But everything is extinguished forever by the second stride of nama-sankirtana which gives us relief. The Supreme Goal of Life The next stage is sreyah kairava candrikavitaranam: the holy name bestows upon us the supreme goal of life. After doing away with these two negative engagements, our positive engagement begins and ultimately takes us to reality, to the real truth, which is eternal, auspicious, and beautiful. It takes us to that auspiciousness which is above this world of difficulty, and in a general way we achieve the supreme goal, the highest auspiciousness, the greatest good from chanting the holy name of Krsna. If we analyze this scrutinizingly, we find that in this stage, the holy name takes us to an intimate personal relationship with Krsna which includes neutrality, servitude, friendship, and filial affection (santa, dasya, sakhya, and vatsalya rasa). Sreyah covers the grace of Nityananda Prabhu, for it is by His grace that we may be allowed to worship Radha and Krsna in Vrndavana (nitaiyer karuna habe braje radha krsna pabe). The next stage is vidya-vadhu-jivanam. The holy name prepares us for the wholesale surrender to Krsna that is found in conjugal love (madhurya rasa) where the devotees surrender themselves infinitely at the disposal of Krsna. The next stage is anandambudhi-vardhanam. When we come to the proper level while chanting the name of Krsna, we find the transcendental ocean that is above all sorts of experience. The name comes to assert Himself over us according to the degree of our surrender, and when our surrender is complete, we feel a new type of ecstatic joy; we experience an infinite ocean of joy which is not static, but always dynamic. There we find new life and a new type of blissfulness. It never becomes stale or static, but at every moment gives us a taste of the infinite ocean of ecstasy. Complete Self-Purification The last effect is that our entire existence is purified. This kind of enjoyment does not pollute—it purifies. Enjoyment means exploitation. Mundane enjoyment creates a reaction and pollution attacks the enjoyer, but here, because Krsna is the aggressor, the result is purification. All enjoyment that comes from the center, from the autocratic desire of Krsna, purifies us completely. In this verse, the words sarvatma-snapanam mean that all different phases of the self which may be conceived are fully satisfied and purified at once by chanting the holy name of Krsna. And there is another meaning of sarvatma-snapanam. If we praise Krsna congregationally, we will be purified according to our capacity. Both the singer and the audience as well as anyone who comes in connection with the transcendental sound will be purified. Snapanam means "purifying." That vibration purifies everyone and everything that comes in touch with it.

All these things come alive when we are really engaging in devotional service and preaching to others; then it is a living thing. When we are just arguing and rehashing amongst those who at least intellectually accept Prabhupada and Krsna, transcendental knowledge can become transformed into empiric knowledge and we can be likewise transformed into arm chair philosophers. Unfortunately too much free time and the internet facilitates such activity and I am drawn to it like a moth to the fire. When we cannot tolerate that a section of devotees cannot accept my realization and we go on an endless campaign to convince others, then our empiric knowledge of Krsna Consciousness becomes fodder for a political agenda which is neither Krsna katha or preaching. I think that we are both guilty of this and it would be a step to admit it. How much longer do we have in these bodies anyway? Even if we live out our average life expectancies we are on a kind of death row. And who knows if we'll even make it that long. We are just really reflections of each other, for whatever reason one person's mind works one way and another's in a different way. But Krsna Consciousness is beyond the mental and intellectual platforms and this is actually good news for us. So we are not without hope if we can continue to chant Hare Krsna, serve guru and Vaisnavas and eliminate offenses. Signing out for now, Beggar

The brahmajyoti is only impersonal if it is viewed as separate from Krsna. Even Krsna's effulgence is made up of unlimited spiritual persons. The only reason that Srila Prabhupada uses the term "impersonal brahmajyoti" is to illustrate how it is not the goal of bhakti yoga for no active rasa is possible there. When the brahmajyoti is given as the source of the jivas by sastra and the previous acaryas it is understood that the brahmajyoti is the effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For the personalist even the so-called impersonal aspect of the Lord is not seen as separate from his personal form but rather an extension, i.e. His effulgence. This is a key fault in your analysis.

Visnu or Narayana is purusa and Laksmi is prakrti. Krsna is the Supreme, original purusa and Srimati Radharani is the Supreme, original prakrti. Sakti saktiman abheda. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur uses the terms the Predominating and the Predominated moiety (moiety means half). Saktiman is the purusa or predominator and sakti is the prakrti or predominated. They are abheda or non-different but they are simultaneously different. It is polar, Krsna is the Supreme positive and Radharani is the Supreme negative. She is drawing Krsna's attention by her infinite capacity to sacrifice Herself for Him. Pure devotees have this negative charge or capacity for self sacrifice but not to the infinite degree of Srimati Radharani. This is essentially Srila Sridhar Maharaj's explanation in my words.

Going back a post - You are still referring to "Radha" as Vishnu tattva which is like calling Her a purusha or a man, a definite rasa-bhasa as well as an inaccuracy.

So again we come to the point where we can see that if what you say is true, then the divine servitors who have never fallen (or dreamed that they have fallen, however you view it) are really in a lesser position than a conditioned soul who eventually goes to the spiritual world. In fact if you consider that in the spiritual world time is eternal then that infinitely increases the possibility that that the divine servitors will indeed fall, in fact over an infinite amount of time in would almost insure it whereas since the "new" divine servitors have already "stuck their hand in the fire" and have learned their lesson. So now you have a philosophy where fallen souls have a higher position than Krsna's eternal servitors; IOW a brand new bhakta would be in better shape than the eternal divine servitors of Krsna. You can twist it around and say that we are ALL divine servitors by nature, but we are talking about divine servitors who are FIXED UP in that position. What do you think, that some brahmacari in the temple is fixed up but the eternal servitors of Krsna who have never fallen are not? What an absurd philosophy. If your understanding (misunderstanding) becomes dominant in ISKCON, then they will eventually be completely eclipsed by "outside" Gaudiya Groups.

Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 15.6 Never? Does never really mean never and what are the implications of this. If the souls who go there "never return" how would they still be marginal. Prabhupada in some conversations and letters stressed how they always have a choice, but never means they never choose to come back to this material world. If in an infinite number of possibilities something that has a possibility of occuring never occurs then what would the odds of this happening. The answer is zero, yes - 0. So Prabhupada has given a circular argument, not that he is illogical, but that he wants to illustrate that love is based on freedom. From class on Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.28.21 Nairobi, Novewmber 1, 1975 by Srila Prabhupada

Srila Prabhupada chastises impersonalist yogis and swamis, the nominal followers of the ninth-century teacher Sankara, in this commentary on Sankara's Meditation on the Bhagavad Gita: Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Whereas Sankara, the greatest of the impersonalists, offers his due respects to Krishna and His book Bhagavad Gita, the foolish say that we need not surrender to the personal Krishna. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (09-25-07) --1-- O Bhagavad-gita, Through Thy eighteen chapters Thou showerest upon man The immortal nectar Of the wisdom of the Absolute. O blessed Gita, By Thee, Lord Krsna Himself Enlightened Arjuna. Afterward, the ancient sage Vyasa Included Thee in the Mahabharata. O loving mother, Destroyer of man's rebirth Into the darkness of this mortal world, Upon Thee I meditate. --2-- Salutations to thee, O Vyasa. Thou art of mighty intellect, And thine eyes Are large as the petals Of the full-blown lotus. It was thou Who brightened this lamp of wisdom, Filling it with the oil Of the Mahabharata. Purport Sripada Sankaracarya was an impersonalist from the materialistic point of view. But he never denied the spiritual form known as sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, or the eternal, all-blissful form of knowledge that existed before the material creation. When he spoke of Supreme Brahman as impersonal, he meant that the Lord's sac-cid-ananda form was not to be confused with a material conception of personality. In the very beginning of his commentary on the Gita, he maintains that Narayana, the Supreme Lord, is transcendental to the material creation. The Lord existed before the creation as the transcendental personality, and He has nothing to do with material personality. Lord Krsna is the same Supreme Personality, and He has no connection with a material body. He descends in His spiritual, eternal form, but foolish people mistake His body to be like ours. Sankara's preaching of impersonalism is especially meant for teaching foolish persons who consider Krsna to be an ordinary man composed of matter. No one would care to read the Gita if it had been spoken by a material man, and certainly Vyasadeva would not have bothered to incorporate it into the history of the Mahabharata. According to the above verses, Mahabharata is the history of the ancient world, and Vyasadeva is the writer of this great epic. The Bhagavad-gita is identical with Krsna; and because Krsna is the Absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no difference between Krsna and His words. Therefore the Bhagavad-gita is as worshipable as Lord Krsna Himself, both being absolute. One who hears the Bhagavad-gita "as is" actually hears the words directly from the lotus lips of the Lord. But unfortunate persons say that the Gita is too antiquated for the modern man, who wants to find out God by speculation or meditation. --3-- I salute Thee, O Krsna, O Thou who art the refuge Of ocean-born Laksmi And all who take refuge At Thy lotus feet. Thou art indeed The wish-fulfilling tree For Thy devotee. Thy one hand holds a staff For driving cows, And Thy other hand is raised-- The thumb touching the tip Of Thy forefinger, Indicating divine knowledge. Salutations to Thee, O Supreme Lord, For Thou art the milker Of the ambrosia of the Gita. Purport Sripada Sankaracarya explicitly says, "You fools, just worship Govinda and that Bhagavad-gita spoken by Narayana Himself," yet foolish people still conduct their research work to find out Narayana; consequently they are wretched, and they waste their time for nothing. Narayana is never wretched nor daridra; rather, He is worshiped by the goddess of fortune, Laksmi, as well as by all living entities. Sankara declared himself to be "Brahman," but he admits Narayana, or Krsna, to be the Supreme Personality who is beyond the material creation. He offers his respects to Krsna as the Supreme Brahman, or Parabrahman, because He (Krsna) is worshipable by everyone. Only the fools and enemies of Krsna, who cannot understand what the Bhagavad-gita is (though they make commentaries on it), say, "It is not the personal Krsna to whom we have to surrender ourselves utterly, but the unborn, beginningless Eternal who speaks through Krsna." Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Whereas Sankara, the greatest of the impersonalists, offers his due respects to Krsna and His book the Bhagavad-gita, the foolish say that "we need not surrender to the personal Krsna." Such unenlightened people do not know that Krsna is absolute and that there is no difference between His inside and outside. The difference of inside and outside is experienced in the dual, material world. In the absolute world there is no such difference, because in the absolute everything is spiritual (sac-cid-ananda), and Narayana, or Krsna, belongs to the absolute world. In the absolute world there is only the factual personality, and there is no distinction between body and soul. --4-- The Upanisads Are as a herd of cows, Lord Krsna, son of a cowherd, Is their milker, Arjuna is the calf, The supreme nectar of the Gita Is the milk, And the wise man Of purified intellect Is the drinker. Purport Unless one understands spiritual variegatedness, one cannot understand the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. In the Brahma-samhita it is said that Krsna's name, form, quality, pastimes, entourage, and paraphernalia are all ananda-cinmaya-rasa--in short, everything of His transcendental association is of the same composition of spiritual bliss, knowledge, and eternity. There is no end to His name, form, etc., unlike in the material world, where all things have their end. As stated in the Bhagavad-gita, only fools deride Him; whereas it is Sankara, the greatest impersonalist, who worships Him, His cows, and His pastimes as the son of Vasudeva and pleasure of Devaki. --5-- Thou son of Vasudeva, Destroyer of the demons Kamsa and Canura, Thou supreme bliss of Mother Devaki, O Thou, guru of the universe, Teacher of the worlds, Thee, O Krsna, I salute. Purport Sankara describes Him as the son of Vasudeva and Devaki. Does he mean thereby that he is worshiping an ordinary, material man? He worships Krsna because he knows that Krsna's birth and activities are all supernatural. As stated in the Bhagavad-gita (4.9), Krsna's birth and activities are mysterious and transcendental, and therefore only the devotees of Krsna can know them perfectly. Sankara was not such a fool that he would accept Krsna as an ordinary man and at the same time offer Him all devotional obeisances, knowing Him as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva. According to the Bhagavad-gita, only by knowing the transcendental birth and activities of Krsna can one attain liberation by acquiring a spiritual form like Krsna's. There are five different kinds of liberation. One who merges into the spiritual auras of Krsna, known as the impersonal Brahman effulgence, does not fully develop his spiritual body. But one who fully develops his spiritual existence becomes an associate of Narayana or Krsna in different spiritual abodes. One who enters into the abode of Narayana develops a spiritual form exactly like Narayana's (four-handed), and one who enters into the highest spiritual abode of Krsna, known as Goloka Vrndavana, develops a spiritual form of two hands like Krsna's. Sankara, as an incarnation of Lord Siva, knows all these spiritual existences, but he did not disclose them to his then Buddhist followers because it was impossible for them to know about the spiritual world. Lord Buddha preached that void is the ultimate goal, so how could his followers understand spiritual variegatedness? Therefore Sankara said, brahma satyam jagan mithya, or, material variegatedness is false but spiritual variegatedness is fact. In the Padma Purana Lord Siva has admitted that he had to preach the philosophy of maya, or illusion, in the Kali-yuga as another edition of the "void" philosophy of Buddha. He had to do this by the order of the Lord for specific reasons. He disclosed his real mind, however, by recommending that people worship Krsna, for no one can be saved simply by mental speculations composed of word jugglery and grammatical maneuvers. Sankara further instructs: bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha-mate samprapte sannihite kale na hi na hi raksati dukrn-karane "You intellectual fools, just worship Govinda, just worship Govinda, just worship Govinda. Your grammatical knowledge and word jugglery will not save you at the time of death." --6-- Of that terrifying river Of the battlefield of Kuruksetra Over which the Pandavas victoriously crossed, Bhisma and Drona were as the high banks, Jayadratha as the river's water, The King of Gandhara the blue water-lily, Salya the shark, Krpa the current, Karna the mighty waves, Asvatthama and Vikarna the dread alligators, And Duryodhana the very whirlpool-- But Thou, O Krsna, wast the ferryman! --7-- May the spotless lotus of the Mahabharata That grows on the waters Of the words of Vyasa And of which the Bhagavad-gita Is the irresistibly sweet fragrance And its tales of heroes The full-blown petals Fully opened by the talk of Lord Hari, Who destroys the sins Of Kali-yuga, And on which daily light The nectar-seeking souls, As so many bees Swarming joyously-- May this lotus of the Mahabharata Bestow on us the highest good. --8-- Salutations to Lord Krsna The embodiment of supreme bliss, By whose grace and compassion The dumb become eloquent And the lame scale mountains-- Him I salute! Purport Foolish followers of foolish speculators cannot understand the meaning of offering salutations to Lord Krsna, the embodiment of bliss. Sankara himself offered his salutations to Lord Krsna so that some of his intelligent followers might understand the real fact by the example set by their great master, Sankara, the incarnation of Lord Siva. But there are many obstinate followers of Sankara who refuse to offer their salutations to Lord Krsna and instead mislead innocent persons by injecting materialism into the Bhagavad-gita and confusing innocent readers by their commentaries, and consequently the readers never have the opportunity to become blessed by offering salutations to Lord Krsna, the cause of all causes. The greatest disservice to humanity is to keep mankind in darkness about the science of Krsna, or Krsna consciousness, by distorting the sense of the Gita. --9-- Salutations to that supreme shining one Whom the creator Brahma, Varuna, Indra, Rudra, Marut, and all divine beings Praise with hymns, Whose glories are sung By the verses of the Vedas, Of whom the singers of Sama sing And of whose glories the Upanisads Proclaim in full choir, Whom the yogis see With their minds absorbed In perfect meditation, And of whom all the hosts Of gods and demons Know not the limitations. To Him, the Supreme God, Krsna, be all salutations-- Him we salute! Him we salute! Him we salute! Purport By recitation of the ninth verse of his meditation, quoted from the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sankara has indicated that Lord Krsna is worshipable by one and all, including himself. He gives hints to materialists, impersonalists, mental speculators, "void" philosophers, and all other candidates subjected to the punishment of material miseries--just offer salutations to Lord Krsna, who is worshiped by Brahma, Siva, Varuna, Indra, and all other demigods. He has not mentioned, however, the name of Visnu, because Visnu is identical with Krsna. The Vedas and the Upanisads are meant for understanding the process by which one can surrender unto Krsna. The yogis try to see Him (Krsna) within themselves by meditation. In other words, it is for all the demigods and demons who do not know where the ultimate end is that Sankara teaches, and he especially instructs the demons and the fools to offer salutations to Krsna and His words, the Bhagavad-gita, by following in his footsteps. Only by such acts will the demons be benefited, not by misleading their innocent followers by so-called mental speculations or show-bottle meditations. Sankara directly offers salutations to Krsna, as if to show the fools, who are searching after light, that here ls light like the sun. But the fallen demons are like owls that will not open their eyes on account of their fear of the sunlight itself. These owls will never open their eyes to see the sublime light of Krsna and His words the Bhagavad-gita. They will, however, comment on the Gita with their closed owl-eyes to mislead their unfortunate readers and followers. Sankara, however, discloses the light to his less intelligent followers and shows that the Bhagavad-gita and Krsna are the only source of light. This is all to teach the sincere seekers of truth to offer salutation to Lord Krsna and thus surrender unto Him without misgivings. That is the highest perfection of life, and that is the highest teaching of Sankara, the great learned scholar whose teachings drove the voidist philosophy of Buddha out of India, the land of knowledge. Om tat sat. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Then how would you refer to the totality of all jiva souls?

<center>The Presence of the Lord </center> <center>by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja </center> In the beginning, when I went to the Gaudiya Math, the murti – the Deity of Mahaprabhu – was there in another room. I asked, “this murti is made of what substance, earth or wood?” The devotee attending the Deity told me, “He is Mahaprabhu Himself. Do not try to see wood, earth or anything else. Mahaprabhu Himself is present there.” So I, questioned them further, “If Mahaprabhu Himself is there, then why is your Guru Maharaja – who is the greatest devotee – upstairs in another room? If Mahaprabhu Himself would have been present here, then whoever is the highest devotee amongst you should have stayed at His side. But he is staying upstairs in another room and Mahaprabhu is placed in a separate room near the street where everyone can see Him easily. Why your Guru Maharaja is not here by His side if He is Mahaprabhu Himself?” They replied, “He is also at the side of Mahaprabhu in his heart.” That is the higher conception, a more real conception of Mahaprabhu. Mahaprabhu’s presence is here and also in his heart. This is a higher conception of Mahaprabhu than the Deity conception. He is always enjoying the presence of Mahaprabhu in his heart. Such a devotee is of a higher type. So, Krsna Consciousness, God Consciousness is like that. It is cin-maya – it is conscious and spiritual. The Lord has manifested Himself in this mundane plane of our sense experience for our benefit. He is not to be neglected. However, this conception, this presence of His grace, is considered to be for the lower section. Yet the Deity should not be considered as an idol. The Deity is also His presence manifested for our gross senses. However, a devotee always sees all things connected to the Lord, the Centre. arcayam eva haraye, pujam yah sraddhayehate na tad-bhaktesu canyesu, sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah (Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.47)“When we do not learn to appreciate the presence of the Lord in the heart of His devotees, but only confine ourselves to such symbols connected with Him, our standard of devotion is meagre.” We cannot eliminate the plane of affection and love that we find here and there scattered in different ways. We are to trace the causal existence of everything. What is the unity in the background that is really harmonizing all these scattered experiences? One whose consciousness is raised to such a standard can see the background of everything as one, from one centre. All these creations are handled, controlled and managed form one centre. “Wherever he goes, he is always with My connection. I am not lost to him.” In Srimad Bhagavatam it is said: sarva-bhutesu yah pasyed, bhagavad-bhavam atmanah bhutani bhagavaty atmany, esa bhagavatottamah (SB 11.2.45)“One who can see everywhere the connection of the Centre in the background, sees all things correctly. He sees the cause, the connection, the central position, the background, and also his own relationship to the whole in that position.” In any particular experience, there are three things: The deepest root (Sri Krsna), the seer’s connection (Sri Guru), and that which is having the experience of his connection (jivatma). This is in accordance to his position with the Centre and it is also interdependent on his adjustment with that environment. That adjustment is concomitant with his relationship to the Centre. Everything will be considered in relation to the position and desires of the Centre, and not any independent transaction with part and part. It is from the part to the Whole, and from the Whole to the part. ‘What will be my position, my relationship to this part?’ It must be calculated through the Centre, and that will be real. This relationship of, “I and he,” is considered a misconception. This misconception will not remain, as it is unreal. But if it comes through the Centre, then it will be real and we will not be frustrated or disappointed. This sort of measurement or estimation would be one of substance. The part-to-part relationship is unstable. It is truly unreliable and will not remain. However, the connection that comes through the Centre is substantial, real and will not frustrate us. Philosophy in India means darsana – allow me to see, allow me to experience things – What is what? Our superficial estimation is not the whole conception. We should learn to see things and to know things properly. This is sambandha-jnana. What is our position in the environment? Is the environment real? Why? Is it only our eye experience, ear experience or, something more is in the background – behind everything? How can that be understood – only by our reason? ……….. Never! Applying our reason to understand the Infinite is futile. Then, how can He be known? The Infinite is not – cannot be by definition – the object of our experience, our inspection. He is far above that. He has got His own responsibility to make known to us His position as the controller of the whole. He sends His agents and His announcements to make us understand that our creation, our sustenance and our destruction is being controlled by Him. We shall try to meet with Him and attain some understanding with that superior power about our own goal of life. Athato brahma jijnasa. Inquire about the place where you are living. This inquiry must be extensive – not superficial. It should be real. Wherever you are, inquire into your environment, not superficially, but with real attention to understand where you are and who you are. Who is above you? Who is lower than you? Study all these things. This will really be beneficial to your own interest. Otherwise, all your attempts will be useless and perishable. Your treachery is to your own self. The way you are living, that is a treacherous life – towards your own self. Therefore, try to understand things clearly, what is what and then live accordingly. Ordinary persons cannot give up their livelihood – their everyday duties and necessities – so they miss the association of the higher agents in their daily activities. In daily life, so many duties must be discharged, so many necessities are there for us to procure and so, that is mixed – not unalloyed. Therefore, “Give up these duties and make exclusive inquiry about the environment and its relationship to one’s self. This is jnana.” In the third plane, the practical life in connection with that Infinite is possible. In connection with the Infinite, there is also such a life – so many duties – and that is mixed with the central interest – the deepest interest. Jnana-sunya-bhakti means, “Pursuance and maintenance of duties connecting us with the Centre.” This is in the eternal position. No death can remove us from there because that is in connection with the Centre. When we are doing some duty, no death can challenge that eternal conduct. In other words, there is the plane of service, and the plane of exploitation, or enjoyment. In the middle is the plane of renunciation, the abscissa – no man’s land – the border of the two planes, brahman and viraja. We are to study these details. There are five stages: The stage of inquiry, the stage of admission, the stage of temporary duty, the stage of being established in one’s own post of service and then the stage of being harmonized totally with the Centre. These five stages are again subdivided. They pass through such inquiry in eternal life: sraddha (faith), our association with those who are expert in that plane, sadhu-sanga; whatever duties are recommended by Him we are to go on doing, bhajana-kriya; the undesirable things are eliminated wholly, anartha-nivrtti; we get our continued position in divine life. We then experience the real worth and attraction for that sort of spiritual life, then so many symptoms of divine life descend in our own existence. Gradually, we shall merge into the interest of God and find our true self there in His relationship. Faith is so real that Christ left this life, finished this life playfully, totally forgetful of the interests of this life. Socrates also gave his life for faith. So, faith is something much more substantial than our fleeting desires in the lower life. We are running towards plurality. So many separate interests, many thousands of things are not necessary. Therefore engage your self with the One, connect yourself with the One Centre. Thereafter no more running hither and thither to connect with the unwholesome appeal of this world. The One is sufficient. Connect with the One Centre. Try to find the Centre of all-Knowledge. When we understand the particular laws of mathematics, then so many sums are automatically done. So, if we get the law – the basic formula in our own hands – then, we have got everything. What is apparently impossible becomes possible. We are to connect ourselves with this sort of understanding – this is the domain of faith proper. When we connect with the All-Controlling Central Point, then we shall be able to know everything that is necessary. If we go to the higher office, then from there we can gather everything about the branch offices. So, inquire about that substance. If we get information from the Centre, then we have information from all the different sub-offices and branches. All the branches are “controlled” by the All-Controlling Centre. Therefore, we are to connect ourselves with that Centre. We have this necessity: “By knowing Him, we can know everything; by obtaining Him, we can obtain everything.” We will go directly to the Centre. This is the direction – the path to trod – and it is possible. He who thinks it is possible and engages himself in this pursuit – he is sraddhavan. Such a devotee has got sound faith, sraddha. Then his inquisitiveness (of the intellect) is satisfied. The whole substantial, practical life he will also find fully present there; it is not imagination. Mahaprabhu came to give not only theoretical solution, but to help your whole practical life which will also be benefited by knowing, inquiring and understanding this eternal Truth. Your practical life at every point will find its fullest satisfaction – if you inquire on the basis of this background. You will be benefited in every detail of your life’s necessity. All your practical necessities that you are not conscious of at present – all will find their fullest satisfaction there. You will have engagement, and you will feel that you are deriving more satisfaction than you could have ever imagined. All your attempts are procuring fulfilment in that plane. ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-mahadavagni-nirvapanam sreyah-kairava-candrika-vitaranam vidyavadhu-jivanam anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamrtasvadanam sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam (Sri Siksastakam,1) “You will obtain your fullest satisfaction beyond your most satiated imagination. You will feel not only in connection with an ocean of joy, but at every step, you will find full enjoyment that is ever new. You will have to experience new fulfilment of life at every moment. Every moment is new fulfilment beyond your estimation and by that fulfilment – by that satisfaction, you will not be the loser. You will not be responsible for any reaction. You will feel you are being purified at every moment. By enjoyment here, you are impure with reaction. But in that process in connection with the Infinite, whatever satisfaction or enjoyment you will experience even though new at every step, will not draw any reaction. You will feel wholesale purification when you do that, you will feel the ecstasy which is drawn only by your dedication.” Dedication, ecstasy, satisfaction in your search – these things will give you joy – but that joy will not mix with dirt: it will only purify you. Whatever you learn will only be purifying. It is so novel because the basis is dedication – not exploitation. Cultivation of Krsna Consciousness in its highest stage is such: the more you enjoy, the more you are purified. Such a program Mahaprabhu has recommended to us from Srimad Bhagavatam, the last projection of revealed Truth from that great expounder, Sri Vedavyasa.

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami’s purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 3.16.26 says that “The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode.” So he also gives the opposite conception. Gauragopala and company cannot accommodate this apparent contradiction so they take what Srila Prabhupada said about the conditioned souls being already liberated but simply dreaming that they are not and try to extrapolate this idea onto the "no one falls" quote. Somehow they or he doesn't trust that Srila Sridhar Maharaj and those previous acaryas who give the same opinion on this issue believe that love is based on freedom and that's why I posted the quote from Srila Sridhar Maharaj on freedom (Today 11:46 AM). Over the last six months I get the sense that he's beginning to see that Srila Sridhar Maharaj is just the opposite of an impersonalist although still being unable to hamonize the different angles of vision with certain statements of Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

Srila Sridhar Maharaj,

I'm not going to go through the quotes here for we've more or less seen them all. What Srila Prabhupada is stressing in your recent quotes, Sarva gattah, is that love is always based on freedom. The concept of impersonal bliss, where the living entity merges with the Supreme actually denies freedom after liberation. If you no longer exist, how can you have love which is based on a choice? I personally know some of Srila Prabhupada's servants and secretaries and all of them will tell you that Prabhupada believed that the impersonalist tendency was very deeply seeded in his Western disciples and was truly concerned by this. This is why he says that everyone can fall down, but then says that those with Krsna prema don't ever make the wrong choice. The potential is there, but they never misuse their free will. Then again because they have already proved themselves those with Krsna prema are put in an environment where in fact there is no Maha Maya. So really they don't fall down. If you want to think that you are from Goloka, what can be done? But don't ever think for a moment that spiritual persons (however you wish to classify them) such as Krsna'a parents, principle friends, lovers and so on, you know - Mother Yasoda, Subal, Lalita...they really never fall, otherwise the real Gaudiya philosophy no longer makes sense. Why do we worship the shoes that Srila Prabhupada wore? Because those shoes are associated with him - tvadiya. Why do we really worship, Srila Prabhupada - because he is Krsna tvadiya, he is associated with Krsna in a very confidential manner and that will NEVER break just like the bond between Krsna and Mother Yasoda can never be interrupted even for a moment. SO LETS TABLE THE DEBATE. Whether we come from Krsna loka or Krsna's effulgence, either way we are eternally related with Krsna. No matter what stance any Gaudiya Vaisnava takes on the origin of the soul they all know that Goloka is our real home. "The war is over" and it's time to see that everyone who is Krsna Conscious is our well-wisher. The Six Goswamis led by Rupa and Raghunatha, the Seventh Goswami, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur and those like them came here to serve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan Movement and for no other reason. They only appeared to be ministers of the Muslim king or a British Magistrate. They never fell, nor will they, whatever is the origin of the soul.