theist

No No No Mort. We all need to climb out of our holes. So long we have lived in the dark sewer of material life. Now we need to cement sambandha-jnana and help others do the same.

For this thread please post something on the nature of Supersoul. Who He is, what His activities are, how we can know Him within ourselves and regonize Him in others.

I will now speak on my own level: Yum this stuff sure tastes good. Wait a minute who's that other worm over there and what' he doing in my...

Speaking on our own level OF SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING. This can be in the form of sharing with someone what we have learned about spiritual life or asking questions about the nature of spiritual life.

Worms should ask how they can climb out of their own s*** and not pontificate on the nature of madhuya rasa. That is the point.

This is all very tricky. "The Bhagavad Gita As It Is" is really more than Bhagavad Gita. It contains the conception of Sri Caityanya Mahaprabhu. Prabhupada is very much in that conception and the conception that Mahaprabhu came to give, "anarpita carim carat karunyayava tirna kalau..."

So within his subjective highly evolved consciousness he is setting the example of seeing Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead everywhere. But from an objective standpoint Ksirodaksayai Visnu is the part of the part of the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna who is the son of Nanda Maharaja. Also, it is not Ksirodaksayi Visnu who resides in the heart of a suddha bhakti, pure devotee in Mahaprabhu's like Srila Prabhupada but rather the Supreme Personality of Godhead, svayam bhagavan, Sri Krsna who always has Srimati Radharani by his side.

Yes I understand that beggar ji. I agree. No problem. A suddha bhakta in this line from Mahaprabhup would probably see Mahaprabhu turning into Radha Syama in his heart like that picture Guruvani has at the bottom of his posts. (I tried to set that as a screen saver hoping to have a large version but all I could get was a thumbnail size picture of Radha Syama on my start page but no Mahaprabhu revealing Them.)

It is not that Syamasundar and Supersoul are two different Gods as I am sure you know. It is the same Person acting and revealing Himself in different ways.

Just like when Krsna killed demons it is said that it was the Vishnu portion of Krsna that Killed them. As Krsna He just exchanges love with His devotees and doesn't need to deal with demons or universal creation or any of these things.

Or like when Radha and the gopis were searching for Krsna. When the gopis happened upon Vishnu they didn't see Him as Krsna. He was hidding. When Radha happened upon Vishnu He, Krsna, could no longer conceal Himself in His form as Vishnu and was forced to appear in His two handed form. (It has been as long since since I read that so I hope I got it right. If not please correct me.)

Now I dare say most of the devotees on earth now are not on the level of the gopis and they offered their respects to Vishnu so who are we to poo poo the Vishnu expansion in our hearts and tell Him I am not interested in you I want Krsna.

It is my belief that when we take this attitude we are falsely imitating Krsna's eternal consorts and in this way we become sahaji's.

Nobody is willing to speak on their own level because we are so fallen and we are impatient with our status and even embarassed by it. Being unwilling right now to go through the internal changes required to be granted true access to those higher lilas we try to compensate by intellectually mimicking them. This is not helpful to the growth of our creepers and even is harmful and self-deluding.

It is something like trying to build a tower into heaven as in the proverbial tower of Bable.

It is not wrong to be inquisitive of what lies ahead in our journey, to be cognizant of the goal, but I believe we must concentrate on the steps that lie right before us else we stumble along the way.

When we realize the basics Krsna will offer us more intimate realizations for sure but we can't fake it.

"Act in times that are with thee and progress ye shall call".

It makes no sense to try to live in the future and ignore the present because the present is what the future is made.

And then we see by Prabhupada's example all through his books, hundreds and thousands of times, of how he addresses people according to their level of understanding.

If someone asks "How does God live in my heart and how do I get to know Him "?, we don't immediately start with the arguement that Vishnu is just an expansion of Krsna. That would be of no spiritual value to the person. Those things will arise naturally in each souls progression as dictated by Caitya-guru.

We point out to such a person that there are five factors in every action, that the Lord in the heart is fullfilling everyone's desires both materially and spiritually, that He is waiting for us to turn back to Him (the two parrots in the tree), That he has expanded Himself outside the heart and come to us in a form that we can more readily perceive and hear from as the spiritual master and we can approach Him immediately through chanting and prayer. These basic things. There is great value in keeping things simple.m

And frankly I have not yet realized even the basics of Krsna consciousness so it behooves me to keep my concentrated efforts at this basic level. And in doing so I am not trying to undermine the higher rasa's but rather by doing so giving myself the best chance of ever becoming a resident of those higher rasa's myself.

TRANSLATION SB 2.4.22

May the Lord, who in the beginning of the creation amplified the potent knowledge of Brahmā from within his heart and inspired him with full knowledge of creation and of His own Self, and who appeared to be generated from the mouth of Brahmā, be pleased with me.

PURPORT

As we have already discussed hereinbefore, the Lord, as the Supersoul of all living beings from Brahmā to the insignificant ant, endows all with the required knowledge potent in every living being. A living being is sufficiently potent to possess knowledge from the Lord in the proportion of fifty sixty-fourths, or seventy-eight percent of the full knowledge acquirable. Since the living being is constitutionally part and parcel of the Lord, he is unable to assimilate all the knowledge that the Lord possesses Himself. In the conditioned state, the living being is subject to forget everything after a change of body known as death. This potent knowledge is again inspired by the Lord from within the heart of every living being, and it is known as the awakening of knowledge, for it is comparable to awakening from sleep or unconsciousness. This awakening of knowledge is under the full control of the Lord, and therefore we find in the practical world different grades of knowledge in different persons. This awakening of knowledge is neither an automatic nor a material interaction. The supply source is the Lord Himself (dhiyāḿ patiḥ), for even Brahmā is also subject to this regulation of the supreme creator. In the beginning of the creation, Brahmā is born first without any father and mother because before Brahmā there were no other living beings. Brahmā is born from the lotus which grows from the abdomen of the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and therefore he is known as Aja. This Brahmā, or Aja, is also a living being, part and parcel of the Lord, but being the most pious devotee of the Lord, Brahmā is inspired by the Lord to create, subsequent to the main creation by the Lord, through the agency of material nature. Therefore neither the material nature nor Brahmā is independent of the Lord. The material scientists can merely observe the reactions of the material nature without understanding the direction behind such activities, as a child can see the action of electricity without any knowledge of the powerhouse engineer. This imperfect knowledge of the material scientist is due to a poor fund of knowledge. The Vedic knowledge was therefore first impregnated within Brahmā, and it appears that BrahmāBrahmā is undoubtedly the speaker of the Vedic knowledge, but actually he was inspired by the Lord to receive such transcendental knowledge, as it directly descends from the Lord. The Vedas are therefore called apauruṣeya, or not imparted by any created being. Before the creation the Lord was there (nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktāt), and therefore the words spoken by the Lord are vibrations of transcendental sound. There is a gulf of difference between the two qualities of sound, namely prākṛta and aprākṛta. The physicist can deal only with the prākṛta sound, or sound vibrated in the material sky, and therefore we must know that the Vedic sounds recorded in symbolic expressions cannot be understood by anyone within the universe unless and until one is inspired by the vibration of supernatural (aprākṛta) sound, which descends in the chain of disciplic succession from the Lord to Brahmā, from BrahmāNārada, from Nārada to Vyāsa and so on. No mundane scholar can translate or reveal the true import of the Vedic mantras (hymns). They cannot be understood unless one is inspired or initiated by the authorized spiritual master. The original spiritual master is the Lord Himself, and the succession comes down through the sources of paramparā, as clearly stated in the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. So unless one receives the transcendental knowledge from the authorized paramparā, one should be considered useless (viphalā matāḥ), even though one may be greatly qualified in the mundane advancements of arts or science.

Śukadeva Gosvāmī is praying from the Lord by dint of being inspired from within by the Lord so that he could rightly explain the facts and figures of creation as inquired by Mahārāja Parīkṣit. A spiritual master is not a theoretical speculator, like the mundane scholar, but is śrotriyaḿ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12].

TRANSLATION Bg 18.14

The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul -- these are the five factors of action.

PURPORT

The word adhishthanam refers to the body. The soul within the body is acting to bring about the results of activity and is therefore known as karta, "the doer." That the soul is the knower and the doer is stated in the sruti. Esha hi drashta srashta (Prasna Upanishad 4.9). It is also confirmed in the Vedanta-sutra by the verses jno 'ta eva (2.3.18) and karta2.3.33). The instruments of action are the senses, and by the senses the soul acts in various ways. For each and every action there is a different endeavor. But all one's activities depend on the will of the Supersoul, who is seated within the heart as a friend. The Supreme Lord is the supercause. Under these circumstances, he who is acting in Krishna consciousness under the direction of the Supersoul situated within the heart is naturally not bound by any activity. Those in complete Krishna consciousness are not ultimately responsible for their actions. Everything is dependent on the supreme will, the Supersoul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

BG 18.13: O mighty-armed Arjuna, according to the Vedanta there are five causes for the accomplishment of all action. Now learn of these from Me.

BG 18.14: The place of action [the body], the performer, the various senses, the many different kinds of endeavor, and ultimately the Supersoul -- these are the five factors of action.

BG 18.15: Whatever right or wrong action a man performs by body, mind or speech is caused by these five factors.

BG 18.16: Therefore one who thinks himself the only doer, not considering the five factors, is certainly not very intelligent and cannot see things as they are.

Here is one way we can become conscious of the Supersoul always in our day to day lives. In every action of the senses He is involved and without His sanction and direction nothing can take place.

Seeing though our eyes is such an action. In reading this page right now we should be aware of Supersouls participation.

We cannot lift a finger to type without Supersoul or even get up for a glass of water.

If we can become conscious of our total dependence on Krsna in this way it will be very helpfull in our quest for Krsna preme.

Yes, why not? The grafts have thousands of plant cells, each with their individual soul. Same as your body - 1 trillion LIVING cells make up your body, each with their souls. And why stop there? Perhaps we can go even more microscopic!

I once had a dream that I was a quark in my last life. Seemed real, unlike a regular dream, so it must be true.

BG 10.36: I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong.

In the tenth chapter of the Gita Arjunas asks Krsna in what ways He is to be rememberd and contemplated. Krsna gives Arjuna a few examples, one of which is the above.

What is noticable is Krsna is refering to the quintessence of everything as being Himself and representing Him. Here is the on-line defintion of quintessence from Webster:

Main Entry: quin·tes·sence

1 : the fifth and highest element in ancient and medieval philosophy that permeates all nature and is the substance composing the celestial bodies

2 : the essence of a thing in its purest and most concentrated form

3 : the most typical example or representative ....e quintessence of calm>

So from the above definitions it is clear that the ultimate meaning of quintessence can only refer to the Supreme Person Krsna. So absolute is this, one could take Quintessence as a name of God.

And herein lies my view of the Srimad Bhagavatam. The 'purest and most concentrated form' of the Srimad Bhagavatam is Sri Krsna Himself and this is how I take the Srimad Bhagavatam as literally the literary incarnation of God irrespective of it's cosmology and allegories whereever they may be found.

This is an excerpt from a lecture on the Bhagavad-gita by Srila Prabhupada.

"Just like Sanatana Gosvami. Sanatana Goswami was Vrindavana. He was chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, always. Then, one brahmana, he was very poor—perhaps you know this story—he worshiped Lord Siva, and when Lord Siva was pleased, then he wanted to take him, give him some benediction. So, "What do you want?'' So he said, "Give me the best thing, so I shall be the greatest of all.'' That he said, "Oh, I haven't got such thing, but if you want, you go to Sanatana Goswami.'' "Where is Sanatana Gosvami?'' "Vrindavana.'' So when he went there, so he had a touchstone. The touchstone was kept with the garbage, and he asked him, "All right, you take that. You are poor man. You take the stone, and if you touch this stone with iron, it will turn into gold. You take this. Find out in that garbage.'' So he took it and went away. So on the street he began to think that "Lord Siva advised me that 'He has the best thing. You go there.' But he has given me this stone—it is very nice—but why did he keep it with the garbage? He has not delivered me the best thing.'' So he returned back. So when he returned back, then Sanatana Goswami..., he said, "Sir, I, I, this is very nice, but I don't think this is the best thing, because Lord Siva said me that you have the best thing. If it is the best thing, why did you keep it with the garbage?'' So Sanatana Goswami smiled and said, "Yes, it is not the best thing, but for you it was the best thing. You want more than this, more valuable?'' "Yes, sir. For that purpose I came.'' "Then take this stone and throw in the Yamuna.'' So he threw it, and, "Sit down, chant Hare Krishna.'' You see? "

--------

A wonderful story. Is it important that the storyline of this brahmana being instructed by Lord Siva to go to Sanatana Gosvami for the most valuable thing is a literal happening or a way of illustrating the point that all material accumulation of wealth is on par with garbage and that the real wealth is the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra? I don't think it is important at all.

What is important is the lesson itself.

The Indian spiritual master, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (founder of the 'Art of Living' foundation) has created a technique called the 'Eternity Process' , a meditation technique through which one is able to remember the memories of one's past lives stored in the subconscious mind. Many of my friends and others have gone through this technique , and in the process , have realised the memories of their previous births.

"Eternity Process" strikes me as a misnomer for a process that concentrates on discovering one's temporary and false designations of the past. The real self, the real you and I, are actually composed of eternity knowledge and bliss so what we need is a process that will put us in touch with the eternity portion of ourselves.

A genuine Eternity Process would be one that has the potency to reveal who we really are in eternity and not who we were not in the past.

The Indian religions believe in the theory of karma or 'cause and effect'. This theory finds ample expression in the fact that those who have gone through the 'Eternity Process ' found that their inborn ,innate talents can be traced back to training in a previous birth.

The basic idea here makes sense. We certainly do carry talents gained in past lives with us into our present life. We all take birth with baggage, good or bad, gained through our past experiences. We see a similar phenomena at work just within this one life. Talents and lessons from childhood come with us into adulthood to be further enriched or neglected by the soul.

We do not reaquire a speacial training technique to discover this however. Anyone who accepts reincarnation simply needs to further their knowledge on how that process works. There is ample knowledge in most Indian schools of thought already on the process of transmigration and this would classify as one of the most preliminary lessons.

This technique is getting increasingly popular, and according to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , it is now being practiced in a few psychiatric clinics as well.

This is a proper place for such understanding. A few people in the West and I suspect many more in the East are including past life regressions using hypnosis in their therapies to help souls from dropping unneed and burdonsome baggage that we still may carry in the form of deep rooted samskaras from the past.

For example someone who drowned in their past life may develop a debilitating phobia of water in this life. Such pratices are part of the mundane medical field of pyschology and not actually spiritual in the true sense of the word.

For sure the medical field would progress greatly by their investigation and employment of such techiniques, and as such they have their place, albeit temporary and not eternal, within human society.

Quick change the channel. Try Fox. ;-)

Thank you beggar. My apologies if I misunderstood your CNN comment as Shakti-fan mentioned.

Hare Krsna

And what does it mean to take shelter of the guru?

To go live in his matha perhaps? More likely it refers to accepting his instructions as one's life and soul.

SB 1.3.33: Whenever a person experiences, by self-realization, that both the gross and subtle bodies have nothing to do with the pure self, at that time he sees himself as well as the Lord.

SB 1.3.34: If the illusory energy subsides and the living entity becomes fully enriched with knowledge by the grace of the Lord, then he becomes at once enlightened with self-realization and thus becomes situated in his own glory.

SB 1.3.35: Thus learned men describe the births and activities of the unborn and inactive, which is undiscoverable even in the Vedic literatures. He is the Lord of the heart.

And it follows that when a soul realizes himself and the Lord he will also realize that all jivas are of this same truth.

"The distinction between the jiva and the isvara will be explained in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. The Lord is kshetra-jna, conscious, as is the living being, but the living being is conscious of his particular body, whereas the Lord is conscious of all bodies. Because He lives in the heart of every living being, He is conscious of the psychic movements of the particular jivas. We should not forget this. It is also explained that the Paramatma, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is living in everyone's heart as isvara, as the controller, and that He is giving directions for the living entity to act as he desires." --Srila Prabhupada, excerpt from Bhagavad-gita introduction.

This understanding of the difference between the Supreme Soul and the minute soul is essential. Every living being we come across in our day to day lives is a comination of the two souls in each form.

To offer respects to the minute soul while ignoring the Supreme Soul is incomplete. As is offering respects to the Supreme Soul while ignoring the minute soul. The Lord states that to worship Him while ignoring the other jivas is not pleasing to Him.

Vaisnavism is about the union of the minute soul with the Supreme Soul and appreciatng the eternal relationship between them.

Yes but that only makes sense to one who firmly believes in reincarnation. I am one of those. But in regards to the question posed there is no way of confirming that what we experience is the results of our past actions from within the confines of our minds and memories. For knowledge beyond our immediate sense perception we need to hear from those who have an advanced understanding of the topic.

Those in contact with a guru like Srila Prabhupada or Srila Sridhar Maharaja understand that he is in their hearts as Paramatma or Caitya Guru. But they don't meditate on the four handed form of the Lord.

I question the level and depth of that understanding. It is known by everyone intellectually but I am not talking about an intellectual understanding. I am in fact talking against being satisifed with holding an only intellectually only unerstanding.

I am advocating and trying to practice the acceptance of Supersoul as the only Guru and revealer of Himself in whatever form that devotee is most drawn to. This applies to other sampradayas as well as GV and those of us who choose to not be formally affiliated.

I repeat this is not about some competition between the Syamasundar form and the the four handed Vishnu form in the heart. The four armed Vishnu form in the heart can also reveal Himself as Govinda. Then you have Govinda in your heart. But this will only occur according to our adhikara and His mercy.

So when I advocate approaching Supersoul I am advocating approaching Him as Guru. This doesn't exclude but rather includes His external expansions that walk among us today in the form of His purified devotees.

It just so happens that the One Guru is also God so He will reveal Himself as He is in all His manifold manifestations. For the majority this entails learning to appreciate His presence through external sense objects such as water and in fact all the universe as well as within our hearts and the hearts of all others. The Lord as Kapila explained that to worship Him in the temple while ignoring Him in other living beings can never please Him.

There will be some who have made sufficent progress in bhakti from past lives that they will be automatically attracted to more intimate forms of Krsna and won't concentrate on these aspects which occupy us. BUT NEITHER WILL THEY SPEND TIME TRYING TO KNOCK DOWN OTHERS DEVELOPING THOSE PRELIMINARY REALIZATIONS. Their rapture will be on their higher revelations and they will not permit themselves to be involved in such controversies such as two handed vs. four handed. Those that do involve themselves expose themselves as pretenders of the higher realms who presently have no solid position in either sphere of God conscious realization.

Sometimes I often chant with a picture of two handed Krsna before me to help me stay focused. I always choose the two-handed form as taught by Caitya guru in His external expansion of Srila Prabhupada. I only have one picture of Krsna on my walls and that is the tri banga banga form of entwined Radha Krsna. I don't understand why I am attracted to this picture over all others or even what Their lila means. That understanding will come much later for me but until then I am simply attracted.

I think if I can explain this to you in the proper words you will see that our differences may be only very slight and most likely we don't disagree on this point even in the slightest. I apologize for having failed to do so far.

Hare Krsna

Not sure exactly where to put this... but here it is.

 

Hello! I'm really new here. I'm a highschool senior and I need some help with an assignment for one of my classes. We are required to chat with someone who holds a different view of life or practices a different religion from ourselves. I am a believer in Jesus Christ, and I thought it would be very interesting to interview a follower of the Hindu way of life. I was wondering if perhaps someone from this forum would be willing to talk with me? All it is is a list of questions that I will ask (and can answer too, if the interviewee likes) that talks about what the interviewee, as a Hindu, thinks about God(s), their religion, the natural state of man, etc, etc. Rest assured, it will not be some heated debate where I will blame the interviewee or tell them that they are wrong or anything. All it will be is a discussion about the differences in our faiths and learning about the different beliefs and how each of us feels about our religions. This is all for an assignment for my history class, and I would be presenting some parts of our chat to the class as a short presentation.

 

I would be very encouraged if someone from this forum would help me out... I've already asked people on other forums to chat with me, but they haven't responded at all to my posts... I hope someone replies!!

 

Like I said, I am only doing this so that I can learn some things about the Hindu religion on a deeper level than the textbooks or other resources say. I'd like to know what a Hindu personally feels about their religion and understand it! It should be very interesting, and I honestly promise that is will not be a debate or hateful speech type thing.

 

Thank you!

inquirer-for-truth, aka, Hannah M.

I would love to talk with you at any length and depth on my strong interest (and too often weak practice) in what you may call Hinduism although I disput that label.

I am not sure I am what you are looking for however. I am a reborn Christian (don't like that label either) and ave been chanting Hare Krsna (off and on)since 1970. I would like to answer your questions, as best as I am able, am to discuss the point on why Christians can and should avail themselves of the tremendous knowledge of the one and only true God, The Father and Beloved Lord of Jesus Christ (and us all).

I also will avoid heated debates and arguments. I believe we could have a fruitful exchange if you care to.

All praise to Yoshua and all Praise to Krsna.

That's fine. But please..the topic is Supersoul.

If one knows that that the Lord partially manifests as Brahman and more fully as Paramatma and completely as Bhagavan, especially Bhagavan Sri Krsna then why would one want to focus on Paramatma?

Because there is no jumping over or sidestepping Caitya guru. Think of the guru portion of Caitya guru for a moment. He is the only guru there is. If there is another bone fide empowered soul representing Him then we should be hearing the Supersoul through him and that that soul should then be rspected and even worshipped as an external manifestation of Supersoul Himself.

That is called accepting guru. By advocating ignoring Supersoul because there is a higher more intimate Form of the Supreme Person is exactly advocating advocating ignoring guru to concentrate on Syamasundar. This will never be successful. Guru is not an option but an imperative. Now some rare advanced souls may be in direct one to one contact with the Lord in the heart on an unbroken basis but that is not most of us nor is it what I am advocating. That would also be another form of sahajism as I understand the word. Taken things cheaply. Does it make sense to accept Krsna in the natural world of wind, water, sound, fire and ignore Him in the instructions of His representative? Of course not. And again if we are hearing from Caitya-guru's actual representative and not hearing hearing Caitya guru's voice that means we are not really hearing guru at all. It's just a show.

You don't see that by focusing on Supersoul we are actually focusing on guru. You are thinking there is some competition between Syamasudar and Paramatma. And that is a big mistake. Paramatma is the one who reveals Himself as Syamsundar when the devotee is advanced enough.

By all means focus on Syamsundar when you chant. I read Krsna book. And if I happen to receive spiritual understanding from it I understand that it is Caitya guru revealing it to me, in this case externally through the writing of Srila Prabhupada and internally as the Lord in the heart who allows me to understand what He is saying in His empowered form as Srila Prabhupada writing Krsna book.

Caitya guru, His representative and Sri Bhagavan are not three separate beings with three separate self interests. They are one and different. And are working as one to deliver the fallen souls. We must remember and appreciate that Paramatma is Krsna's expansion. While He plays in yoga-maya with His devotees as Krsna He is simultaneously working with the fallen souls as Paramatma.

Srila Prabhupada not only gave the West Krsna book and CC but also Sri Isopanishad, Bhagavad-gita and the nine cantos of Srimad Bhagvatam that lead up to Krsna-lila and although he said it is sweet wherever we taste it he stressed a systematic study of his books leading up to Krsna-lila. And by study I understand that as meaning a progressive series of realizations that lead up to Krsna-lila.

Krsna consciousness comes through our going through deep changes in our heart. This CANNOT be faked. To do so is is willfull self deception on our part and viloence to those we manage to bluff.

If someone cannot recognize Krsna as the light of the sun and the taste of water then and/or speaks dispargingly of this level of realization without even have obtained it himself then I will certainly avoid hearing anything he has to say about Krsna consciousness in general and the relationship between Radha and Krsna specifically because he is simply a bluffer. He huffs and he puffs and he bluffs all day long but he can never give blow down the wall of maya that entraps us and give anyone Krsna.

This is the mentality that brought the zonal acarya disaster onto us. But if we are a little introspective and honest we will see that we are also huffers, puffers and bluffers but just on a much smaller scale. Sad to say I believe this attitude is the prevailing one in the devotee community today and is a major stumbling block on the path to true Krsna consciousness. We want and expect Radha/Krsna to come as cheaply as memorizing some teaching of someone we consider to be rasacarya or any empowered preacher.

I have met the sahaji and the sahaji is me.

I am not suggesting that higher topics are taboo but only we must be realistic about our own level of realization or lack thereof. First necessity to proceed further is the realization of sambanda-jnana. Not head knowledge of sambanda-jnana but realization.

May the Lord in the heart be so gracious as to impart this understanding unto us.

BG 10.36: I am also the gambling of cheats, and of the splendid I am the splendor. I am victory, I am adventure, and I am the strength of the strong.

In the tenth chapter of the Gita Arjunas asks Krsna in what ways He is to be rememberd and contemplated. Krsna gives Arjuna a few examples, one of which is the above.

What is noticable is Krsna is refering to the quintessence of everything as being Himself and representing Him. Here is the on-line defintion of quintessence from Webster:

Main Entry: quin·tes·sence

1 : the fifth and highest element in ancient and medieval philosophy that permeates all nature and is the substance composing the celestial bodies

2 : the essence of a thing in its purest and most concentrated form

3 : the most typical example or representative ....e quintessence of calm>

So from the above definitions it is clear that the ultimate meaning of quintessence can only refer to the Supreme Person Krsna. So absolute is this, one could take Quintessence as a name of God.

And Im writing songs anyway, and the season is almost here, this song should be on this thread:

 

<center>Winter Moon c 1995-mahaksadasa</center>

The winds from the North bring another storm.

Be another month before the season starts to warm.

Looking to the cold clear full-moon night

Nityananda moon rise coming into sight

Playing hide-and-seek with another winter cloud.

Casting mystic shodows on this earthly shroud

Waking all the sleeping souls floundering along

Reminding us to sing Harinama, sing the holy song. Why You came, I'll never know, You came into my heart.

You raised me from the dead, You give me brand new start.

In my darkest hours, You have always appeared,

Armed to help me battle all my greatest fears.

Harinama fills the air, sacred chanting everywhere,

Children wave their arms like they just don't care.

We can truely live in Vana when we dance with God's Own,

Leave behind all worries because we'll never be alone.

Govinda's kingdom come, and we know His will be done,

So we dance and sing His Name all the way til dawn.

The confusion of this world always seems to slip away,

When Sri Harinama is the start of every day.

So I beg of You, O Lord, let me never forget.

I surely know I am deepest in Your debt.

The sound of Your Name rocks me to and fro.

JAYA JAYA NITYANANDA, HARIBOL.

You post this ever so often Mahaksa and it is always a pleasure to read.

BG 10.31: Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rama, of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges.

Not only is Krsna blowing in the wind He IS the wind as well.

Nice.