theist

It is a fact most of the major media outlets in India today are owned by Christians. Bollywood the biggest movie industry in the world has a strong biased for promoting western ideals. In many films the progressive Christian society is played up and Indian culture played down. The sadhus are portrayed as fools or comical characters in many Bollywood films. The propaganda is great and is working on the Indian population.

You must be the same Guest I just replied to. Now the Christians have taken over Bollywood huh? You are cracking me up. Whoever runs Bollywood I am not sure but they certainly are not Christians, Do you think Christians also run Hollywood?

The people who run Bollywood and Hollywood are simply materialists out for a buck.

Indian culture may be following Western culture more and more but that is just a reaction to India having been so poor materialy for so long and now they are trying to catch up. This is maya for sure as happiness can never come from matter. But to blame Jesus Christ for the material appetite of the people of the world is simply beyond bizarre.

edited for sp mistakes

I am no expert but as far as I know the Indian education system was turned over to Christians after Indian independence....

LOL. Yeah in the West many are convinced the Jews run everything.

I do not think you are being very precise with what you consider a Christian. Just because someone is from the west does not mean they are a Christrian. Christians don't run things in the west. The public schools are not even allowed to to talk about God.

Funny we have Christian fundementalist parents sometimes mounting big protests if a school offers a class in hatha-yoga because they think it is the Hindu's sneaking in. LOL. Don't be like that.

How many Indians are there that consider the stories in the Puranas as mythology. You sound as if the one billion Indians have only one mind.

Some people think that prema or love of God can be obtained without panca-samskara. This is incorrect. The conditioned soul in this world has become hostile to the Divine, and consequently his original spiritual nature has become distorted. As a result he must sanctify himself before his true spiritual nature can develop. And what is the means to attain this pure state? The best way is through samskara or sanctification. Without samskara how can his distorted nature be given up? If we see someone whose nature is not distorted then we think that in a previous birth, through the mercy of a spiritual teacher, he must have received samskara, and on the strength of that samskara he has attained his true spiritual nature wherein prema or love of God has arisen. Otherwise we think that this person has been imperceptibly sanctified by the inconceivable mercy of the Lord Himself. No matter how you look at it, samskara is always there. On the other hand, samskara is not necessary for liberated persons because their nature is not distorted. Distortion of the soul's original spiritual nature is the cause of his bondage in this world. For this reason, without samskara the life of the conditioned soul is impure. Even if a person has attained prema on account of previous samskara, still in his present life he again receives samskara in order set a proper example for the good of all.

While reading through this article this paragraph really caught my attention with special emphasis on the underlined sentence. This "imperceptable santification" directly from the Lord Himself I see as the only hope for those of us living in present times, and especially those of us who live in the West. Along with the reception of the Name from the proper source this is complete as I see it.

Pacha-samskara as described above is highly unlikely to catch on world wide. I am positive that in this birth I myself have ZERO chance of being sanctified from my past samskaras by this formal method. Right or wrong it is just a fact. No hope.

However with the Name and Krsna's mercy in the form of "imperceptable sanctification" I have hope. This mercy is my sole spiritual focus having long ago seen the futility of my purification by the more formal path. It's Krpa siddha for me or endless entrapment in maya.

For you all it may be possible so I don't decry the formal approach in the slightest. I do question the strong emphasis placed on it in present time place and circumstance though.

Is the Holy Name alone insufficent in purifying the living being?

CC Madhya 15.105: Upon hearing this, Satyaraja said, "How can I recognize a Vaishnava? Please let me know what a Vaishnava is. What are his common symptoms?"

CC Madhya 15.106: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "Whoever chants the holy name of Krishna just once is worshipable and is the topmost human being.

CC Madhya 15.107: "Simply by chanting the holy name of Krishna once, a person is relieved from all the reactions of a sinful life. One can complete the nine processes of devotional service simply by chanting the holy name.

CC Madhya 15.108: "One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.

CC Madhya 15.109: "By chanting the holy name of the Lord, one dissolves his entanglement in material activities. After this, one becomes very much attracted to Krishna, and thus dormant love for Krishna is awakened.

CC Madhya 15.110: "'The holy name of Lord Krishna is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that, save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krishna is the controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Krishna. When a person simply chants the holy name with his tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for any of these activities. It is self-sufficient.'"

CC Madhya 15.111: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu then finally advised, "One who is chanting the Hare Krishna mantra is understood to be a Vaishnava; therefore you should offer all respects to him."

It is obvious isn't it...in the material realm religion is going to have defect. Not one is perfect in my opinion.

I agree totally. Thinking there is a perfect religion is what keeps people converting from this one to that one, changing their garb and rituals as they go. But amongst it all good is being attained. Every head bowed in prayer, every service rendered, all these are held in trust by the Lord Himself in that souls transcendental bank account irregardless of that souls religious affiliation..... or lack of it.

The ultimate religion was taught by Christ when he pointed to loving God with all of one's heart mind and strength and others as yourself as being the essence of religion.

Some think they have advanced beyond Christianity but they don't have a clue what Christianity even is. Christianity is not Pat Robertson or the Pope. Christianity is following the teaching of Christ which if analyized by any simple sane person can be understood as a total transformation of the heart from a lover of matter to a lover of God.

Jesus taught the same principle as Srila Prabhupada, karma yoga as action in Krsna consciousness.

If I was to refer to myself as a Christian I would be a liar just as I would be if I called myself a Vaisnava. Both terms are really the same. I am simply a demon who sees the need and wants to change but is having a hard time doing it and nothing more.

Oh and before someone chimes in with "Jesus never said Krsna in the Bible" I will remind them that Lord Caitanya said Krsna has hundreds of millions of names and that in each of them He had invested His transcendental energies.

BG 2.42-43: Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.

BG 2.44: In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place.

Here we learn the cause of fractured intelligence. We are still bewildered by this cosmic phantasmagoria and are yet convinced that happiness still may be found in one or another of maya's offering to us. Holding out hope that happiness can be found in this forest of bewilderment if we just each in the right place.

Yet we chant and try to understand the futility of desiring heaven even as most of us quietly desire it. Are we slowly gaining knowledge or just hedging our bets? Maybe a bit of both 'eh.

I can understand why Tackle-Berry and others say such things. Srila Prabhupada seems to have been very tactful in his preaching methods with those outside of the movement.

Consider this bija. Srila Prabhupada gave the majority (seems like 80%+) of those statements concerning Jesus to his disciples on morning walks, room conversations, lectures and personal letters and not in a press release to the general public. Many of those disciples were also from Jewish backgrounds. So why would Prabhupada need to try to placade them with praise of Jesus Christ?

Personally I have long long lost all desire to associate with with anyone that holds an offensive attitude to Christ even if they wear tilak and a thousand neck beads and chant Hare Krsna. These morons even think they are advancing the cause of the sankirtan movement by jousting with the windmills of false Christianity. Better to leave them to their delusions.

Tatvadasa, you make some good points, but you can never convince these people who are more christian than gaudiya in their attitude. They are fanatics, so forget about them. They fanatically defend the lies of christianity, including the Jesus myth. If only they exhibit the same fanaticism in understanding vedic scriptures! It will never happen, though.

If you believe Jesus is only a myth and we are beyond hope in regards to seeing things properly , that is through your eyes then you should abandon us and let us live in our ignorance. So please stop trying to save us. Why are you so concerned with someone else's choices in spiritual life? Why do you think it any of your business? You folks are just as fanatical as the street corner preacher telling everyone they are going to hell. Only difference is you are using this web site to do it.

Prabhupada wanted these ignorant christians to become gaudiyas,

I suppose you mean me also even though I grew up an atheist and not a Christian. Don't you find it strange that our views find basis in the direct words of Srila Prabhupada whereas characters like you can only insist he really feels the opposite of what he is saying. Don't you realize how offensive that is. Agree or disagree with Srila Prabhupada but don't think you can spin his words and not rack up some aparadha's.

What I get fom reading/hearing Srila Prabhupada is that he wants everyone to realize themselves as spiritsoul, as eternal servants of Krsna. But you obviously have your own interpretation and that is your business but don't you think it rather foolish to expect people on this forum to ignore Srila Prabhupada's words and accept yours?

This battle will not be for the timid or weak of heart.

LOL! Go get 'em prabhu. You are surely the reincarnation of Don Quixote.

You have made over 10,000 posts but you never referred to yourself as a follower (disciple) of Srila Prabhupada, Mahaprabhu or Jesus Christ? There is no need for me to read your 10,000 posts I will take your word for it. Pray tell whose lineage do you claim connection to?

A "claimed" connection has no value therefore I choose not to deal with it. You will know them by their fruits.

Familarity. I think you are right. It's crazy to promote one thing as the perfection of life and yet be reluctant to do it yourself. But then I never claimed to be sane. ;-)

I had never heard about Srila Prabhupada and this verse before. Thanks for that.

I have heard that sadhu means "one who cuts". Such a sadhu can be compared to the expert surgeon who has the job of cutting away the tumor from the healthy flesh in order to save the patient. He has no intention of harming the patient but surgery is painful especially in recovery.

We must understand this thing in the beginning or as Nitai said the chastisment may cause us to lose faith. If we become more serious in a relationship with such a sadhu and draw closer he will recepricate by making cuts to remove the ahankara or the false conceptions of the self along with words of encouragment. It's his duty much like it was the duty of Nanda Maharaja to correct child Krsna God or not.

If one can appreciate what is happening as it is happening his growth in Krsna consciousness can be very swift.

The majority of us dislike this cutting of the sadhu so we remain in an outer circle where it is more flower garlands and prasadam lollipops. That's ok for now as we all make progress even there.

The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond the conception of the body -- not theoretically but practically,...

I have noticed in myself a false sense of security that can come as I gain theoretorical knowledge of the self. I tend to think that is what is meant by "knowing" thyself. But of course it is not.

Theoretical knowledge has it's place in self realization obviously. The intellectual plane is said to be right next to the self proper however it is not actually the transcendental plane. There is no satisfaction or safety in trying to remain on these levels of shadow knowledge.

Even this observation is only more theoretical talk unless I act upon it. So why don't I? I find myself in fear of not only surrendering to Krsna but I am even afraid of my self... my true self.

Why do some of us fear self realization do you think?

TRANSLATION

Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.

PURPORT

A strong faith that by Krishna consciousness one will be elevated to the highest perfection of life is called vyavasayatmika intelligence. The Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 22.62) states:

'sraddha'-sabde -- visvasa kahe sudridha niscaya

krishne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krita haya

Faith means unflinching trust in something sublime. When one is engaged in the duties of Krishna consciousness, he need not act in relationship to the material world with obligations to family traditions, humanity, or nationality. Fruitive activities are the engagements of one's reactions from past good or bad deeds. When one is awake in Krishna consciousness, he need no longer endeavor for good results in his activities. When one is situated in Krishna consciousness, all activities are on the absolute plane, for they are no longer subject to dualities like good and bad. The highest perfection of Krishna consciousness is renunciation of the material conception of life. This state is automatically achieved by progressive Krishna consciousness.

The resolute purpose of a person in Krishna consciousness is based on knowledge. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah: a person in Krishna consciousness is the rare good soul who knows perfectly that Vasudeva, or Krishna, is the root of all manifested causes. As by watering the root of a tree one automatically distributes water to the leaves and branches, so by acting in Krishna consciousness one can render the highest service to everyone -- namely self, family, society, country, humanity, etc. If Krishna is satisfied by one's actions, then everyone will be satisfied.

Service in Krishna consciousness is, however, best practiced under the able guidance of a spiritual master who is a bona fide representative of Krishna, who knows the nature of the student and who can guide him to act in Krishna consciousness. As such, to be well versed in Krishna consciousness one has to act firmly and obey the representative of Krishna, and one should accept the instruction of the bona fide spiritual master as one's mission in life. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura instructs us, in his famous prayers for the spiritual master, as follows:

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi

dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam **

"By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Krishna consciousness. I should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master."

The whole process, however, depends on perfect knowledge of the soul beyond the conception of the body -- not theoretically but practically, when there is no longer a chance for sense gratification manifested in fruitive activities. One who is not firmly fixed in mind is diverted by various types of fruitive acts.

The problem is many who like you have only 'casually scanned' the Bible preach from it as if it were revealed scripture not really knowing what is in that book. I know because I used to do that myself. Cherry picking what I liked. When I made a good study I realized the whole thing was tinged with very bitter fruit and the cherries were few.

That is your problem not mine. First I don't "preach" period from Gita or Bible. Ocassionally I learn something I want to share. Show me ONE example of where I have made referrence to the Bible that did not point out the same eternal truth found in the Gita. This is a serious challenge from me to you. If you cannot then I can only request you learn to control your mind and tongue and not make such snap judgements about what I think. The search function works on Audarya Fellowship so now it time you used it to back up what you say. I have over 10,000 posts and lets see if you can find even one where I called myself a disciple of Christ, Lord Caitanya or Srila Prabhupada or ever even once tried to convert someone to the Christian religion or any other religion.

If you really want to debate Christianity then go to a Christian forum. There you will find thousands who identify with the Christian religion and will have great interest in delving into you sectarian debate. You had an agenda from the start and disquised it cleverly in your first post and I fell for it.

We should all pray to become like swans.

The soul that loves Krsna and His parts and parcels and who knows the science of Krsna consciousness is qualified to make disciples around the world.

You can also be Jagat Guru. That is the message of Srila Prabhupada, that is his desire, that is why he came to earth to preach.

Very well said Guest. (post 27)

 

 

Well said. It is however a problem with many - some on this forum too - to fear and condemn science as it threatens their pet beliefs; most of the threatened beliefs having nothing to do with spirituality.

There are 10 offenses to the Holy Name. A follower of Mahaprabhu is careful not to commit offenses against the Holy Name.

 

This one is usually listed as #4

Blaspheming the Vedic Literature

 

* To denounce the information in the revealed scriptures.

* To regard the Vedas as mundane literature

* To keep scriptures in a dirty place

 

Yes in the Veda the length and breadth of this universe is told as well as the age of this universe. The biblical version of the age of the planet is wrong and the Vedic scripture is right.

 

 

 

How to counter-act the offense of disrespecting the Veda: Offer flowers to the Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita.

Revatinandana: "The ten offenses to avoid in chanting the maha-mantra. The first is blaspheming the Lord's devotee." Just read them?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: "Second, considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level."

Prabhupada: This is very important point, blaspheming the devotees. The Lord's devotee, in many countries, many places... Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he's also devotee of Lord. Muhammad, he's also devotee of Lord. So it is not that because we are Krishna conscious, we shall unnecessarily decry any other parts, any other devotee. It may be, according to time, place, and country, the method may be different, but anyone who is preaching devotion to God, he's a devotee of God. So he should never be blasphemed. Yes.

Revatinandana: "Two. Considering the Lord and other demigods on the same level."

Prabhupada: Yes. One should not put the Supreme Personality of Godhead... Just like the Mayavadi says, "The demigods and God, they are all the same." Because according to them, God has no form, so any form you accept, imagine, as the form of God, it is as good. But that is not the fact. There are demigods and the Supreme God also. So we should not place... Just like demigod, Lord Brahma or Lord Siva, Indra, Candra, they are demigods. So we should not place... In one sense, there is nothing except God, because everything expansion of God. But that does not mean I am equal to God. I am also expansion of God, that's a fact. Just like father and the son. Son is the expansion of father; still, the son is not the father. Don't mistake that. There is no difference between father and son because the same body is expanded as son, but still, the son is not the father. Father is father, son is son. This, I mean to say, variety, the Mayavadi philosophers, they do not understand. Then?

Revatinandana: "...or assuming that there are many Gods."

Prabhupada: God is one. There cannot be many Gods. If God is not one, there is no meaning of God. God means, according to Vedic definition, asamordhva. Asama means one who has no equal. Nobody is equal to God. And urdhva means nobody is greater than God. God is great. Nobody can be greater than God. Therefore God is one. Nobody is greater, nobody is equal. That means everyone is lower. Then?

Revatinandana: "Neglecting the orders of the spiritual master."

Prabhupada: Yes. This is one offense. These are offenses. When we accept spiritual master, it is understood that you cannot deny his order. Just like Krishna and Arjuna was talking as friends, but when Arjuna accepted Krishna as spiritual master, he was simply hearing, and whenever there was difficulty to understand, he was questioning. Not that he was equally arguing with Krishna. Before accepting Him, he was arguing. So this is the position. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He said that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool [Cc. Adi 7.71]." Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not a fool, but it is the good qualification of a disciple to remain a fool before the spiritual master. Therefore he'll never, I mean to say, dare to argue or disobey. That is offense. Now, go on. That does not mean that when you cannot understand, you cannot question. Question must be there. That is stated in this Bhagavad-gita, tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [bg. 4.34]. Your relationship is to know from a spiritual master everything, but you should know that with three things. What is that? First of all you should surrender. You must accept the spiritual master as greater than you. Otherwise what is the use of accepting one spiritual master? Pranipat. Pranipat means surrendering; and pariprasna, and questioning; and seva, and service. There must be two sides, service and surrender, and in the middle there must be question. Otherwise there is no question and answer. Two things must be there: service and surrender. Then answer of question is nice. Yes.

Revatinandana: "The fourth offense is minimizing the authority of the Vedas."

Prabhupada: Yes. Scriptures, authority of Vedas, they must be accepted. Just like the other day I was explaining, the Veda says the conchshell is pure although it is a bone of an animal. In other places Veda gives you the injunction that bone of an animal is impure. But it says the conchshell is pure. It can be placed before the Deity, it can be used in the Deity room in His service. Now there may be argument, "Oh, this is a bone of an animal. How is that? Contradiction." No. So one should accept the injunction of the Vedas like that. Whenever it says this is impure, it is impure; when it says it is pure, it is pure. Now if there is any doubt, that should be understood by questioning submissively and with service from the spiritual master. The spiritual master is there. Then? But we should always accept the injunction of the scripture as truth. Just like there is a proverb, "Bible truth,Biblical truth." Nobody can deny Bible. This should be the attitude. Bible is also part of Vedas. Therefore Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is, without any interpretation. Just like Bhagavad-gita is Veda. Why Veda? The Supreme Personality of Godhead personally speaking; therefore it is Veda. There is no mistake. One should accept—no interpretation—as it is. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Yes. Go on.

Revatinandana: "The fifth offense is interpreting the holy names of God."

Prabhupada: Yes. No interpretation in the holy... Just like Krishna, the Mayavadi philosophers may... Just like Gandhi has written, "Pandava means the senses; Kurukshetra means this body; Krishna means the mind." No such nonsense interpretation. Krishna is Krishna. Yes. Go on.

Revatinandana: "The sixth offense is committing sin on the strength of chanting."

Prabhupada: Yes. Now we have explained the mantra that as soon as one chants Hare Krishna, immediately, bahyabhyantarah sucih, he becomes purified. Now if one takes advantage of this holy name, "Let me commit sins..." Just like sometimes in the Christian church they take advantages that by confessing sin one becomes free from sinful reaction. So go to church and confess, and again come out and do all sorts of sins, and again confess. This sort of (laughs) minimizing is nonsense. It is fact. When you confess before the church, before God, you are free from all sinful action. That's all right. But if you commit again, then next confession will not be accepted. They do not know this. You cannot... Suppose a child has committed some mistake. Father says, "All right, don't do this." If he again does it, there is no excuse. They do not know that. They think, "We shall commit sin and go to church and confess and finish. So let us do this balancing business." Yes. Similarly, don't do this balancing business, that "Because chanting Hare Krishna will wash off all my accounts of sinful activities, so in the morning, from morning to night, let me do all kinds of sinful activities, and at night, at bedtime, let me chant Hare Krishna. Then finish." No. (laughs) Don't do that. Don't do that. That is the greatest offense. Yes. You'll never be forgiven. Those who purposely do like that—"I have got very nice instrument for washing off my sinful activities. So whole day let me do all sinful activities, and at night let me chant Hare Krishna. Let me meditate. That's all. Finish."—no. You should note that the name, the holy name has got the power. Now, from this date, you are free from all sinful activities, reaction. But don't do it. That is the greatest offense. Yes.

Revatinandana: "The seventh offense is instructing the Lord's name to the unfaithful."

Prabhupada: Yes. Those who do not believe in God, atheists, what is the use of...? But not to bother him, but give him the chance of hearing. That will make him competent to come forward. Therefore we are distributing this holy name. Not that everyone will be immediately turned to Krishna consciousness, but we are giving chance. If they hear... You have got practical experience. Somebody's hearing, he's reforming. So we should give chance. But if one is staunch atheist, we should not talk very much with him about Krishna. He may say something against, offensive. Yes. Then?

Revatinandana: "The eighth offense is comparing the holy name to material piety."

Prabhupada: Yes. And another thing, just like we are holding this ceremony, initiation ceremony. It should not be accepted just we are functioning some ritualistic ceremony. No. It is different from ritualistic ceremony. Although it appears like ritualistic, it is transcendental. Ritualistic ceremony, they are meant for giving you advantage of become pious, from impious life. It also gives that, but this is not the ultimate aim. The ultimate aim is to give you love of God, which is far, far transcendental to the pious and impious activities. That is a different thing that belongs to the spiritual world—love of God. It is not that it is a function to nullify your sinful activities. That is automatically done. Just like if you get one million dollars, the purpose of ten dollars automatically solved. Similarly, this acceptance of holy name of God will automatically wash off all your sinful reaction. That's a fact. But it is not meant for that purpose. It is meant for higher purpose, to attain to this platform of loving God, rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord. That is the aim. Yes.

Revatinandana: "The ninth offense is inattentive while chanting the holy name."

Prabhupada: Yes. This is ninth offense. While you chant, you hear also. You don't turn your attention to anything else, mechanically chanting and thinking of something. Thinking of Krishna is all right, but if I think something which is not in Krishna consciousness... Best thing is that I shall chant Hare Krishna and each word I shall hear; then it will be very much effective. Yes.

Revatinandana: "The tenth offense is attachment to material things while engaged in the practice of chanting."

Prabhupada: That I explained. This is the disease, aham mameti [sB 5.5.8]. The material disease means I am thinking this body, "I am," and everything belonging to this body or in relationship with the body—"Mine." This is material disease. So we shall see. By chanting we shall see how much we are making progress, how much I am free from these two concept of life, that "I am this body, and anything belonging to this body is mine." This is the test, how we are becoming free from these two concept of life. If there is still the concept that "I am this body, and anything belonging to this body is mine," then you have to chant very cautiously to make progress. That's all. These ten kinds of offenses you should guard against. [break]

The Srimad Bhagavatam is very scientific in its explanation of the cosmos.

How would you know? Are you an astro physicists or an advanced metaphysian or some sort. Most likely you are not and are just a "believer" with no personal knowledge on the subject.

I am also a no nothing who knows little beyond the Sun is father away than the moon. So what if the Bhagavatam is wrong on many of these points. The scientists are also having to revise their fancy theories to accomodate no knowledge. But neither are important to me in my search for transcendental understanding. "take the essence' Prabhupada said and I consider that perfect advice.

Nothing like it can be matched in any other religious text on earth. To put the Bible in the same category is foolish.

What is fooloish is thinking the Bible even attempts to describe the cosmos is foolish. So there is nothing there to accept or reject on the subject. besides I am no pusher of the Bible so don't accuse me of that. I have never done more than causally scan it and it holds little interest for me.

Funny how you never ask these qs of Christians, who don't even allow Vaishnavas to build temples. But you mock Hindus, who mean you no harm. Bottom line, you're more attached to christianity than you are to Vaishnavism. Stay sectarian, then, and do not advise others. You simply don't have the moral right.

Fact is I do I challenge Christians specifically the evangelical types who come up with things like the earth is six thousand years old and reincarnation has no place in Christianity etc. and I have done so all my adult life. But why would I come to this forum to do so when there are christian debate forums all over the web. I usually stick to challenging their opposition to reincarnation which is the missing link in current Christianity and their sectarian viewpoint. I also regularly challenge them on animal slaughter.

No religion or idea is beyond questioning. And I do fiercely object to the merging of Vaisnavism with Hinduism or any other ism per Srila Prabhupada's teachings on the matter. When people get on this board and insist that Srila Prabhupada considered himself a Hindu when he clearly and repeatedly says otherwise I get pissed off and object. I really expect more from people here than the cheap and foolish flaming of other peoples beliefs which only serves to keep the atmosphere here down.

It's my sincere contention that we should appreciate anyone's most humble beginnings on the path of God consciousness and if we have anything to say it must be of the nature of helping their growth just as we wish help from those father along the path than we. Do unto others as you would others do unto you.

The idea is that both the spiritual master and the disciple must be bona fide. In this case, the spiritual master, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, is ready to recite exactly what he has learned from his great father Śrīla Vyāsadeva, and the disciple, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, is a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. A devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa is he who believes sincerely that by becoming a devotee of the Lord one becomes fully equipped with everything spiritual.(...)

All this talk of comparing one religion over another has no intrinsic value. Especially at the moment of death. At that point what matters is the Name of God and our realization of the transcendental nature of our own being.

The only religion is that one that is intrinsic to the eternal soul. Our eternal dharma. And that is loving service to the Lord. "Simple for the simple".

Of course there are no real followers of Mahaprabhu who believe Bible history when it comes to the creation or the 6,000 year old earth myth. Any Vaishnava must dismiss such accounts as myth.

There is no such statements in the Bible that earth is six thousand years old.

There are statements in the Bhagavatam that refer to the universe as being 5 billion miles across however.

And to hear a Hindu complain that others are believing in myths is really rich....I mean really really rich.

Sorry I won't go point for point with you. Stay a sectarian as long as you like. Afterall India is the factual center of the 5 billion miles across universe right? Anything outside your land of birth must be suspect right?