abhi_the_great

Dil pe mat le yaar. Wish you all the best. Its been "learning", having you around.

Jagat, Are you western body or Indian body??? Abhi

It was nice reading these posts...whew. My conclusion: both the mental diksha as well as the ceremonial/formal diksha are equally important. If not, why SP shd establish such a procedure in ISKCON, why BSSP shd establish the ritual, why Gauranga mahaprabhu shd set the example. Slightly more important than the ritual is certainly the mood of the disciple/devotee. If my mood is sincere, then why shd I not accept diksha? Why shd I not accept the help of a sincere soul? Why shd I be so egoistic to think, that I don't need a guru, Krishna will reveal himself to me. I personally do not think that the attitude is really Vaishnavic. Its also tending to ritwik.

Money and power is the ultimate goal, no doubt. But, the scripture supports the killing of all the kafirs!!! This is what makes the religion very sacred . The Tamils are no using the Hindu scriptures as an excuse or rather as a duty to kill. As long as a scripture allows such killing all the simple rank followers will not be even slightly guilty of their wrongful acts.

Reminds me of an ad I saw: ---------------------------- Coca-Cola 4th floor Pepsi Everywhere -------------------------- raganuga go to this link or this link or that link indiadivine right now right here!! -----------------------------

Actually, there is no one way as far as the application of a rule to people of different natures are concerned. It is a very personal thing. As sadhakas in ISKCON, we all have achieved spiritual success to one level or another. We all have tried to analyse ourselves - our strengths and our weaknesses. What is truly our ability, we know from within. We all know that sex-life for not procreation is sinful. We also know that sex life has been engaged in(from time immemorial) not only for procreation, but also for its sheer pleasure. Can we tell someone to engage in sex, but not enjoy the pleasure??? Is man a programmed machine or a sensual being? To enjoy sex is natural, from this point of view. In olden days, people used to enjoy sex and also procreate children simultaneously - so there was no sins. Now, we are using contraceptives to just enjoy sex, without the burden of having children. This is certainly sinful - and karma will act. Another point of consideration is, even if we do not have sex, still semen is lost in sleep. I tried pakka celibacy for a year and a half before my marriage, imagining, "Now I'll get ojas, now I'll get tejas". Nothing happened. Nothing was flowing upwards, everything went down the drain in sleeps . I felt all this ojas - tejas is just some story. I met one guy on the net in some other site, who said he is able to lift up the semina by yogic practice. Is there anyone here- OJAS-TEJAS type? My feeling is, it is good if one is able to control the sexual urge. But, if one cannot, then get married and have sex in marriage. Don't cheat oneself into thinking that I can one day become sannyasi and guru, only problem is I have this uncontrolled lust. Just be practical in spiritual life. If one can have full control over lust, then why at all marry. Why at all we need grihasta-asram? There are some unwritten truths, we can see thru it if we are simbly humble. We do not need to fight for the ground realities, we shd approach spiritual life understanding our own limitations and strengths. Fanatic controlling or fanatic indulgence, both won't help. Its very personal. As i said, there is no "one solution". The application is different, as the people are different. Why did Kshatriyas marry many women in the past? Even Arjuna, had 3 wives. He was totally captivated by the beauty of Subadhraji. Don't misread my intentions. No, I mean better have sex inside marriage, if you cannot control, than have sex with many people outside married life. There is a variance limit within marriage, which is implied, though not explicitly stated.

Bolo Prophet Mohammed ki...... (i don't hear anyone - helloooooo)

If I look at the history of ISKCON, I shd conclude that many are still human-animals, but fortunately have an interest in Srila Prabhupad and his teachings. After many many years of serious chanting and sadhana and service to Srila Prabhupad, why have so many fallen down? If it was one or two, I can understand its an exception. But the numbers are much more. To completely control sex life is not at all easy, its almost impossible. This is my humble understanding, from what I experience within and what I see mostly happening without. I think it might take chanting for hundreds of births, not a few years, to purify us. Still, it might not be possible. But it is surely possible by the mercy of Guru and Gauranga. It takes time to become completely chaste and pure. Some of us might have been chanting for more births, so it might be easy for them. No, I am not promoting illicit sex, but saying that better have as much sex inside the institution of marriage than having sex outside marriage. If you can have sex only for procreation, its the best. But, in whatever condition you are, continue your sadhana and pray to Krishna sincerely. There is no point being needlessly guilty. That will spoil ones interest in bhakti. Philosophy has to be rooted in reality, otherwise it becomes impractical for the common folk. Kama is the 3rd purushartha, and it is the point where ones lust in vented. This is in the grihasthasrama. Its a natural emotion. Its also true, that there is no training required to enjoy, but a lot of restraint has to be excercised to control!! I do not know how it feels when one spends nearly 30yrs in grihasta-asrama. I am just 3 yrs into my married life. I wd like the senior grihastas to comment if a feeling of renunciation creeps in, or one gets bored of ones partner, or spiritual cravings take the priority. What really happens? Or does it drop off like jijaji's leaf: Hare Krishna.

So nice, so nice. This is inspiring devotion. I just visited another site of some gurukulis in NZ, almost naked!!! Totally numbed. This pictures are awe inspiring and delivers the message and mood of service.

jndasji, Of those coming to ISKCON, most are "bhogaisvarya prasaktanam, mayapahrta cetasam" etal. One practical question here, how many of those coming into ISKCON are really worth to be preached abt brahmacarya and sannyasa heavily? How many were brainwashed abt sannyasa and finally fell down. The percentage is quite large, especially in ISKCON. They all read this philosophies and advices, which you have stated. Still why?? Why does ISKCON's name make people to look down at you? Bcos of the fanatic preaching of Sannyasa. That is the only answer. Trying to make celibates of people who have a different nature, not fit for celibacy. It is not nice to make general rules. Some people shd be given the time to grow and gradually come to realise what this means, one cannot push celibacy on to the heads of innocent interested people. It might take a few births even. I understood all the theory and philosophy you gave me. But really, what is the percentage who are on that level? Complete celibacy is a nice ideal, but not for the masses. A person who falls after such persistent brainwashing, when his guru leaves, then he finds himself very worthless and useless and a pain to oneself and society. The mental trauma is intense. He can neither lead a happy spiritual or a material life after this. This is the reason that Bhakti Vinod has stressed on spreading the teachings thru the congregation outside the temple. The families will grow and Srila Prabhupad said, in future we will have more devotees outside the temple than inside the temple. The most practical approach is to develope the congregation. This also works in increasing the number of devotees. Instead of forcing one person join the temple and turning his well wishers and parents against ISKCON, we can encourage him to stay at home and conduct a bhakti-vrksha type of program in his hse, which includes his parents and friends. In Singapore, we witnessed that the number of devotees multiplied faster when all the bachelors got married. Most of the Indian brides did not find it much difficult to accept the process of KC.

There is no reason to deal disrespectfuly to anyone, if he is decent and deals respectfuly to us. I did not mean to go on rampage challenging every muslims one meets. If we can convince them thru Mahaprabhu's method we shall. If not, we shall use other practical methods which are bonafide. We need not be too sentimental. We have no shame in calling mayavadis as rascals and fools, but we are getting(acting??) over compassionate when we really see a 1st class rascal. I am not interested in an overdose of philosophy, without practical application. I prefer to preach what I can practice and at the same time concurrent to shastra. As leyh previously said, it is not a practical idea to kill all muslims. I feel this is true. The stress here is only on self defence and preventing the society from being attacked by blood thirsty animals. Akin to RSS in India, there shd be a Kshatriya grp in ISKCON and gaudiya maths. When there arises an opportunity, they shd act swiftly to defend the devotees of Hari. I do not think this is a very revelutionary line of thought. Its normal commonsense.

There is no point being averse to fighting if the circumstance so demands. There is also no reason to fight if peaceful means work. But Islam(in its present form) and peace usually do not co-exist. I feel that a new improved version of the Quran shd solve the problems.

There is no competing the fact that one freed from sex desire, is almost liberated. The only question is of being sincere to oneself. I cannot preach what I do not practice. My mind is dwelling on sense objects on one hand, and on the other I am quoting from shastra left-right, top-bottom, that one shd be a complete celibate OR calling grihastas as fallen souls. Preaching fanatically abt how somebody spits on the thought of sex and so on. But inside I am like the guru who was planning to run away with his pretty disciple. I feel that the approach shd be down to earth. Its conveyed in the single message "preach what you truly practice, and what you think the person who you are talking to can practice". ISKCON has lost a lot of face bcos of forcefully making brahmacaris and sannyasis of people who were never qualified for this job. Its a great ideal, but not for the masses. This is my understanding.

Happy to see that there are few practical people around. I am tired of the philosophers. Has philosophy blinded man from becoming down to earth practical and seeing things the way they are. Why do some people not understand that Islam is a threat to any form of religion and practice in the world. Its a plague which is being forcefully spread across the world. One really need not be a genius to see thru the games these people play. If not today, tomorrow they will strike on all forms of idol worshippers. Today we might cry out of compassion for muslims. But if we do not gear our self up for the final playdown, we will all have to cry for not having been pro-active and intutive. We will have to cry that it is Krishna's will that Vaishnavism perish. I am not saying that we attack now. But we prepare ourself mentally and physicall and spiritually for the truth that will descend. It has happened many times in the past too. One need not be a fortune teller or a forcaster to understand the inevitable. It wd be appropriate if we can get some sort of training including weapon training. Yes, for defensive purposes. Hari Hari Abhi

kill or perish. The two options Islam has left the world with. http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordoftruth/archives/byauthor/aditichaturvedi/j6hapdroi.html

karthik dear, what is thart 786??? Pls elaborate... Don't leave us in a suspense. abhi

Most ladies like to wear a lot of ornaments and own a lot of precious things. Its just normal, its not at all surprising. They like to gossip and rumour, its also normal. Men are not a great exception, too. Aren't we all fallen, first and foremost? But these are no disqualifications to become a devotee of Mahaprabhu. I feel flaunting brahmacarya is more dangerous than really leading a married KC life, with great difficulty. What can hypocrisy acheive?

ISKCON featuring models!! yoooooohoooooo, I just cannot imagine!! What wd SP say, if he were to see this? I think all excuses are just that - EXCUSE, nothing more. Is it that this hall is a open hall open to the public, which they can rent out? I n Mumbai temple also, people are free to use the special hall for conducting various public programs. This attracts a lot hi-fi crowd into the temple. Hemamalini's dance shows and marriages usually take place there. I have not heard of any fashion shows yet. I feel that even the stage programs, like dance etc., are not good to be viewed by brahmacaris. But in Juhu, I have seen men in saffron watching these shows. These stuff do not easily sink into my typical Indian mindset. Such hi-fi temples are anyway not the best place for brahmacaris who want to maintain their celibacy - to say the least. Abt staring ladies: Why not? A lot of them stare. Nobody is Satyavan - Savithri in this kali yuga. All are lusty, many are hypocrites, rare are true ones.

!!VRINDAVAN!!

Sincere birthday wishes to this saint. I beg forgiveness for the offence of not being able to accept your holiness as bhagavan, but I surely accept you as a respecatble man. Dandavat Pranams Hare Krishna Abhi

Sincere birthday wishes to this saint. I beg forgiveness for the offence of not being able to accept your holiness as bhagavan, but I surely accept you as a respecatble man. Dandavat Pranams Hare Krishna Abhi

How much the muslims in India take all their benefits for granted, as if it was the sacred duty of the Indian govt.???? A muslims friend of mine who had lesser scores in the exam than me, cd easily get a more prestigious branch in the Engineering college. I really do not understand why in India minorities are given more importance while accross the brder (Pak or Bangladesh), they get a good beating. And after all this nice treatment, the musllims support Pakistan, sitting in India. Are we cheating ourself? Shd we look back at the existing govt policies?

From another site. By: Saradindu Mukherji The acquittal of a 14-year old Christian boy and his uncle by the Lahore high court in the so-called blasphemy case establishes not only that the minorities in Pakistan are an endengered species but also that their safety is dependent entirely on international pressure. While it is understandable the the West should have taken so long to realise the grim insecurity of the miniscule Christian minority in Pakistan, there is little justification for the apathy of the political class in India, which includes a very vibrant intelligentsia in this matter. The 1991 census revealed that the minorities - Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Parsis and Ahmadiyas- who formed 23 % of the population of West Pakistan at the time of Partition have been reduced to around 3%. If this is not ethnic cleansing, what it is? While a sizable section of the minorties was wiped out in partition- related mayhem, state-sponsored pogroms and forced conversions, the rest had to abandon their ancestral homes and seek refuge in India. The Hindus and Christians, numbering 1.2 million each, are mainly concentrated in Sindh, where the bulk of the Hindus live, most of them work as bonded labourers in lands owned by the Muslims; in Punjab, the Christians are generally employed in low-paid jobs. This microscopic minority of kafirs has suffered every conceivable form of intimidation, harassment, discrimi- nation and persecution in the years since partition. We should not forget that Pakistan emerged out of the rabid hatred for the kafirs, which concretised with the street violence in Calcutta on August, 1946, observed as "direct action day". As Sir Francis Wylie, the governor of UP, wrote to the viceroy on August 29, 1946: "the most ominous feature of the (Muslim League) demonstrations was the notable tendency to give the whole movement a religious flavour. Many of the meetings took place in and around mosques just after the usual Friday prayers. I am told too that members of the Muslim League party are making vigorous efforts to obtain support of Maulvis and Immams every- where in the province. You might have noticed that The Dawn recently started quoting extracts from the Quran every day on its leader page. There has been some shouting of slogans about "Jehad" in various towns here." Documents available with the Public Record Office (equivalent to our National Archives) in London further substantiate the theory that Pakistan was especially created for the Muslims. The British High Commissioner to Pakistan, in his secret despatch to the Whitehall, dated 5th May 1948 wrote, "What Jinnah appears to be aiming at is a state sufficiently Islamic on a high level to make it acceptable to the brotherhood of Islamic states." To understand the plight of the Masihs in Pakistan as well as the humiliation heaped on the Hindus and other minorities there, it is crucial that we do not lose sight of the lineage of the Pakistan state. But then India is full of lobbyists for Pakistan and admirers of Jinnah who are also engaged in the lofty mission of rehabilitating his "sacred" memory. One of the most discriminatory and humiliating devices to reduce the non-Muslims to a status lower than that of second-class citizens is the separate electoral system, which bars minorities from active participation in national politics. The minorities vote in separate lists and can only be elected from special lists for the national and provincial Assemblies. Unlike Muslim candidates, minority politicians cannot choose their constituencies. The entire country is their constituency. Thus a Pakistani Hindu cannot vote for a Muslim politician any more than a Muslim can vote for a non-Muslim candidate. In the 237-member national assembly, the kafirs have only ten representatives and they are barred from the Upper House. This is religious apartheid at its crudest. In a juridical dispute, the Muslim can accuse a non-Muslim of being a 'kafir', in such a case the testimony of the latter would count for half that of a Muslim's. In the event of homicide (voluntary or involunatry) the kith and kin of a non-Muslim victim are entitled to only half the compensation foreseen for a Muslim victim in a parallel case. There are numerous other ways of persecuting the non-Muslims. Should a Muslim abduct a non-Muslim woman (even a married woman) and declare that she has embraced Islam, her family loses all legal power to claim her freedom. The quota system and inherent religious prejudice have combined in such a way that the non-Muslims are grossly discriminated in matters of education and employment opportunities. No wonder most of them are engaged in low-level sanitary work or in the nursing profession to which the "believers" are not attracted. Moreover, Islamiyat is a compulsory subject for all students. Theoretically, a non-Muslim can refuse to be examined on Islamiyat in the absence of an alternative subject, the student stands to forfeit the marks allotted to the subject. In public schools there is no provision for teaching any religion other than Islam. Non-Muslims also find it difficult to get admission to a public hospital or to get a blood transfusion. This is not all though. In 1992, the Pakistani authorities made it mandatory for the people to declare their religions in national identity cards. This is generally seen as another tactic to isolate the non-Muslims and create a system of Islamic apartheid. As if all this was not enough to reinforce the minority status of the kafirs, other methods are also adopted to subjugate them - desecrating their places of worship, forcibly converting and abducting them etc. No wonder, there is a steady flow of Hindus from Sindh to India. Despite this overwhelming evidence, the political class in India including some of the refugee-victims of partition, habitually goes out of its way to defend Pakistan. A whole range of diplomatic reports from Pakistan such as the US state department Human Rights reports and the reports of some Pakistani human rights activists stand as testimony to the victimisation of non- Muslims. But we the people, and the government have refused to be moved by these accounts. We must see Pakistan as it is - a fundamentalist-terrorist state, no matter whether it is ruled by a London-trained barrister, s Sandhurst cadet, a feudal chieftain or an Oxford graduate. The ideological sustenance flows from the same source. If The Economist, The Times, Newsweek and the chain of the prestigious media and other organisations in the West could highlight the plight of the Masihs and provide the necessary moral pressure, why can't we follow suit.

once i read something like this at fateha.com: According to The Reliance of the Traveller, a guide and reference in the Shafii school of Jurisprudence, the main school of thought for Singaporean Muslims: "The nakedness of a man (man meaning the counterpart of the female, including young boys, even if not yet of the age of discrimination) consists of the area between the navel and knees. The nakedness of a woman (even if a young girl) consists of the whole body except the face and hands." ( page 121) Pls take a look at that site. I feel the girls/ladies look pretty chaste in that kind of dress.

Even after so much of bombarding Krishna Consciousness, I wd not prefer to marry outside my caste. Even within hindus, we might not go for a lower caste, or people speaking a different dialect. This thinking somehow inherent in most of the Indians. Ofcourse, there is also a lot of social considerations involved, too. Marrying around the globe is a far fetched idea for atleast our generation, even with whatever western thinking and education they are exposed to. But the society has opened up more than our parents and grand-parents. There is a slow and steady metamorphosis taking place in the thinking of Indians. IS it good or bad, is still a question of debate. If a country is opening up, it is sure to be influenced by outside cultures. Inturn it also influences other cultures.