maadhav

dear atajuji, although i am a vaishnav, i respect avaita. we hindus alwasy have debated it peacefully and in public. the great vaishnav aachryas have debated it with teh top most advaitis of their times. the conclusion of these recireded history of the debate says dvaita is best for most people. krishna also says it it gita. so, i do not want to debate this because i am not as sharp as ramanuj, madhva, nimbarka, chaitanya or vallabha; and you are not as sharp as shamkracharya. why re-invent the wheel? why debate somethign which alread has been epertly debated? one good answer is for education. debate is a good process for learnig and educating. but if the concluson of a debate is not followed/ lived by/ then it is useless for the person. teh another reason for not doing this debate is that we all the hindus are under therat from islam and xianity in india. these two ideologies are up with fill forice to wipe out sanatan dharm and the vedic culture. so, our effort shoudl be not debate on internal issues/philosophies, but the external enemy ideologies in india. so, can we nite for this purpose? if so, good. if not, can you agree that something needs to be done to check islam and xianity in india - the devabhoomi, the land of the hindus? if you say, then great. let us unite to fight, or let us fight wirh our individual ways. so, suppose advaiti do not join vaishnavas to fight islam, what different ways advaiti would fight islam in idnia? ------- my secondary and minor comment on your note words are as follows. i do not want to debate advaita. but this is just for fun. << Thousand prostrations to you my Guru. >> your guru is seen different from you by you. this is dvaita. << A report written by me will not understand me but I will understand the report. >> it is not sufficient you understand your report. most readers should understand it easily, else it is your failure. a report is not a live thing. it cannot understand any one. but i know your point. << What is truth? >> a truth, any truth is silent. it needs a conscious being with interest to understnad it. why understand it? because the truth - knowing it- a conscious being can choose how to live in a better way more peacefully or enjoy more. e.g. a mango is a thing. it will not tell, "come eat me. i am delicious and nutricius." you, a conscious being have to have curiosity to experiment with a mango to find what to do with it. the knowledge (the truth) about a mango is infinite, all the way to the composition of atoms and sub atoms components. you cannot study it fully in one life. the question is then how much knowledge you need for a mango. for all practical purpose it is sufficient to know a mango is a delicious fruit you can eat and get healthy. or better, know that it is made by krishna. so serve it to krishna first, and then take prasadam, distribute prasadam to others. now, whey you are hungry, would you rather eat a mango quickly, or sit to know the truth about the mango all the way to the atomic structure before eating it? suppose you know all the truth about a mango. what is the use of it (the deeper truths)? what problem it will solve for you, your family, your town, nation, and the world? it will simply build an ego in you that you are a great ph d gyana yogi of mango. then you will expect respect from people all around you. and you will agree that (false) ego is a hinderance in progress towards god. when some read - satyam eva jayate - it makes them think satya will win for them and they do not need to do anything. this passivity is wrong. a better vedic word is- asto ma sat gamaya. here is the activity of moving from ignorance to knowledge of the truth. but just knowing is not enough. one has to live by the truth, else it is useless. when you know the truth that the vedic culture and dharma is very valuable for any genertion of the world polulation for ever, we needs it to be practiced well and unchecked in india. for this we need work to do. this is seva to us and the future genertions and to krishna. would you agree? << There are two principles of testing the validity of knowledge. The one principle is that the knowledge should validate all particular experiences; >> yes. however, science (meaning rationality based on the five senses and logic of intellect) fails to explain some phenomenon. e.g some light phenomena can be explained only by the wave theory, and some other phenomena can be explained only by the quantum theory- particle theory of light. so both these theoried are partially true. or they are not true but mimicking truth to some extent. << and the second is that anything of which the explanation is sought is to be explained so far as possible from its own nature >> then the nature or the truth of each should be known. we do not need to know it beyond certain level for our practical purpose of living. but if it is known, then it will converge to one reality; because truth is one only, and the system of god is coherent - non conflicting with each other. still it may seem there are conflicting forces in nature. << According to Advaita, this freedom is not to be attained, it is already ours.>> yes, but it needs wisdom to figure how to use that freedom for our benefit/secure happiness. << The highest ideal of the Vedanta is very difficult to understand, >> so, one tries to explain, and other tries to understand. this is dulism. if you and i are one, then whatever you say, i should have know it already. you coming here and posting is due to dualism. in conrast, bhakti is easy and safe. says krishna. << It also says that the cause of all this apparent evil is in us. >> this could mislead to mean that islam slaughtered the hindus for 1000 years, and it is our fault that we are hindus. the real meaning of your word is that the evil is in the nature and deeds of the asuras, not suras. we are/ought to be/ strive to be suras. we understand this from krishna's words in daivasura sampad vibhaaga yoga chapter of gita. to live like suras is not enough to preserve dharma and rashtra interes. we need to go out and make the asuras understand it so that they can give up asuric ideology, if they do not and when it come to the protection of dharma and rashtra interest, then to fight is the last choice, but it IS a valid choice recommended by krishna/dharma. so, would you still prefer to debate advita or join to do something about pursueing our dharma and rashtra interests?

yes. while the hindus easily accept such words of the vedic scriptures, non hindus find it difficult to believe. this is due to their prior sanskaras or the influence of the culture they are born in. the non hindus know only of the body, not the soul. wule they think of the body only, we think of the eternal soul within. so, technically no one dies, but some are forgotten, or their work is forgotten, or their message is rejected. so, that it the real death of the person. hanumanji, parasuram, vedvyasa, etc. are immortal because their message is not forgotten, it will be respected and followed for ever. that is why they are immortal. besides, the currrent rule of the nature that one dies in about 100 yers, is not our rule. it is made by krishna, and he can change it any time for any person. so, it is also likely that these immortals are living in their original body also. now, whether they are physically meeting to the people or not, does not matter mostly; because their message is same and eternal. without meeting vaysadev, one can derive complete benefit from his works - puranas and mahabharat. so, thus they are eternal. a hindu can understand this very easily. for others, still it may be difficult. a non hindu wants to live here in this material world and wants maximum enjoyment with the senses. meat eating and wine makes them very lusty, and on top of it they take viagra. this is like a monkey drinking wine. this is the miserable condition of this misguided western culture. the vedic culture however, does not place importance on the body which is temporary, and is just a means to go to god. so, a hindu controls his senses. tapa is importnt part of hindu life. many holy days are for fasting. in contrast, the west fasts only during the sleep. as long as one wakes up, he/she eats something even before brushing or taking shower or going to bathroom. this is their break-fast. prabhupada tried very hard to explain the vedic views to the west. some pious one understood him. others did not. thfor this, he said that meat eaters cannot understand dharma. history of this material workd is very important to the non hindus. their BOOKs are just history books. gita on the other hand is not a history book. it is the essence of a unviversal dharma. those who want to understnad dharma and the hindu concepts will understand it. those who come here to defameor criticise hinduism will not understand it, or will not agree they understand it. while a hindu has no problem with any one with any opinion or belief (as long as the person or the ideology is not out to take away the freedom to practice hinduism), a non hindu just cannot stand the existance of any one with different opinion or belief. so, now jodge. which religion is better? yes. vadvavasa is immortal.

<< why argue? >> because in certain situations it is adharma to not argue or not fight. do your karma, and chant in between, but do not give up dharma, nor surrender to adharma.

prejudice or discrimination agaisnt whom or for what matter? why you chose to know this from the hindus?

<< as most do not actually understand their own religion and that is why we find many converting to other faith. >> that is just one of a few reasons.

<< is it wrong to chant the mantra without been given it by a guru? >> no. however, when one takes a mantra from his/her/beloved guru, then the mercy of guru and one's faith in guruand mantra, and dedication to chant multiplies the benefit of chanting.

vyasa was born to satyavati (matshagandha) before she merried to king santanu. she was a very beautiful daughter of a fisherman. Bhisma is 20-30 or so years older than vyaadev. bhisma left the world, and vyasa has not. vyasa witnessed the whole mahabharata war and worte it down with ganesh as the scribe. vidur, pandu, and dhritarashtra were biologically vyasa's sons. so, vyasa actually saw his own familiy's great war, and he remaind unpurterbed. occasionally he would come from his hermitage and advise one or other, as mahabharat indicates.

I think the vedas mensions that there are 330 M devatas. However, no names of all are given to my knowledge. You can think that the cretionis vast and complex, to runa and maintainit needs many devas/devis. Hence the large number. No hindu wonders about all the names. Vishnu, Siva, Durga, Ganesh, and Surya are worshipped. Different incarnations (24 main) of vishnu have names. Vishnu and Siva each have atleast a thousand names. Each name describes a quality/charcteristic of god.

it means "I bowdown to Godlike (saint/divine) Ramanuja (Aacharya)." This is how hindus give respect to saints/swamis/sanyasis, and spiritual gurus. In their presence, a hindu does not sit at a level above the level of the saint's seat, but sits at a lower level. This shows humbleness and desire to receive blessing and knwoledge from the saint or guru.

any household item as a gift is fine. no food item ususlly. but never a non veg food or alcohol. also do no wear clothes that reveal brests or thies. if you do, no one woudl object, but is is usually unappropriate in religious function. it is a distraction form teh main purpose.

what is MLM please?

it can leave from any hole of the body. an advanced yogi's soul leaves the body thru the braham randhra. that is best. worst is when it leaves thru the rear. this happens to bad sinners. so i have heard. garuda puraana should have such info.

<< I read your post with great interest and concluded that, indeed, your comments do make sense and clarified points that I misinterpreted because of sheer ignorance. Thank you for the time you took in answering me. >> you welcome. i have time for all the friendly souls who are eager to learn. << I do not feel I could ever become a missionary of any kind, though; and that shows I am not much of a good soul. >> not really. if/whe you get burning desire to make some live by dharma, then krishna could make you a swmini or even a social worker. << I am really interested in and attracted to Dharma. >> good. this is the first step. serious interest. << &#8220;Originally&#8221; >> your post has numbers like this many times. i do not know what these mean. do you put them intentionally? << I feel that I do not have much of a right to talk about a philosophy/religion I was not brought up into >> that is very fair attitude. but any one can learn new things. so can you. << and which so many Westerners like me have used and abused over the last 40 years &#8211; hippies, the drugs, etc &#8211; and still abuse today &#8211; >> there alwasy be some abusers. that is how this world is. we need to see what benefit the users derive. << Between genuine interest which calls for gaining more knowledge into Dharma and a sense of &#8220;how not to go wild and stupid like my fellow Westerners&#8221;, there is a fine line I do not wish to cross. So what is the best way to go along with this &#8220;attraction&#8221; and act upon it with all the necessary respect? >> first keep in mind that your purpose of learning what dharma is, is for your spiritual benefit, and it is not to brag about or impress others. then get a copy of bhagavad gita and read it seriously. the speaker of gita is god Himdelf- krishna. keep that faith while you read it, else it will not benefit you any bit. in gita krishna describes a few yogas, you need to do soul serchigna d figure which yoga is best for you. bhakti yoga is for lovers - men of heart karma yoga is for doers with a lot of energy. gyan yoga is for those who have very sharp brain power. dhayn yoga os for those who like to control the wandring mind. sow which one is best for you? once you could figure it, try to study it deeply from gita. krishna recomemds bhakti yoga for most, perticularly in this millenium of kali. then visit hindu or Hk temples near you regularly. listen discoruces given there. know/meet sadhsu/swamis/ goswamis/ sanyasis. approach humbly and inquire with folded hands. do is sincerely, not like an act. this is the right way to learn dharma. whatever you learn, practice it gradually, more and more. the associans you make at teh temples will guide you more. Once you realize krishna is god and you love gita and strive to live by it or practice a yoga given by krishna, then all the hindus will accept you as a hindu. while stydying/learning about dharma, do not eat beef. to eat cow is the greatest sin for a hindu. krishna lived as a cowboy when he came on this earth 5000 years ago. if you are not a vegetarian, try to be. << From my part, I would never try to convert anybody to anything; >> great! that is hindu spirit. << and I do not understand those who do. >> because their book says so, and they are orgnized to do it. << what does it mean &#8220;to be a good hindu&#8221; ? >> one who lives by gita. for a hindu, indian subcontinent is holy land - the land of the devas (gods). it hs many holy places. cow is protected, never killed. rivers ganga yamuna, etc. are holy, every living being has a soul within it, and a soul is eternal. god is supersoul - krishna. other gods (devas/devis) serve god. a hindu wants to see god face to face, he wants to live with god, play with him, serve him, etc. he/she also loves godly people/ saints/swamis. << Can someone so foreign from Eastern (you mean Western) philosophy be able to grasp a bit of what it all means ? >> yes, definitely. even the hippies have learned a lot, even better than many hindus of india. << can a Westerner ever be able to touch upon what is really said in the Gita ? >> yes, when there is respect for gita and dharma. << Can he/she ever be able to understand what being a Hindu is all about ? >> sure. << What do &#8220;real&#8221; Indian Hindus think of all these Western people from everywhere congregating in Indian ashrams, doing yoga, following a Swami, they call &#8220;Swamiji&#8221; ? >> they feel good that they have something that helps others. besides, dharma is for all the mankind. << Is this a masquerade of the true religion? Are we just playing around with this &#8220;save me-myself and I&#8221; attitude which seems to be the contrary to what Dharma is teaching, fooling ourselves oblivious to the fact that the true religion is else ? >> the above is very general and so specific response is not possible. we need to see case by case. in the west they take something from hindism or the vedic culture, and strip it off from the source totally, then use it, and do not give any credit to the source culture. that is viewed by the hindus as unfair/unfriendly attitude/practice. << I really would need to know what is the right attitude. Your help, if the above deserves an answer, would be most welcomed. >> i already described the attitude above. i wish you happy journey, lila. am curious to know about your education and lifestyle. but ok if you could not tell.

dont worry. keep telling the truth. thanks.

what you mean by prabhupada=tatasta shakti ? tatasta (correct word taTastha) means neutral. shakti means energy.

one who is a buddhist for along time, or is a vaishnav for a long time, then it becomes difficult for one to understand/agree to the other philosophies and sadnanas. when one has invested so many years in one philosophy and sadhana, one does not want to agree that one was wrong or less intelligent. some ego plays part here too. only very few can quickly give up one past sadhana and pick another better sadhana/philosophy when they know it is better. this is just a side point here.

thanks lila, for picking a user name and describing your basic interest. << Can we still have some hope for humanity ? It seems not; we are basically quite rotten. All of us. >> no. vice and virtue is on one's momopoly. the problems you described are nothing but malpractice of dharma (hinduism). you kept an eye for them and you saw them. there are others who live by dharma and do not have that problems. that does not come to your mind or to news. also, remember that for 1000 years islam has done havoc to the hindus in india. for 1000 years they tried to completely eliminate hinduism from the face of the earth. teh hindus slaughtered over this time is a fe order larger than 6 million jews killed by hitler. terrorism is not new to the hindus. the harsh realities under islam has caused some malpractice to some extent. the tradition of sati is not practiced any more, but it was a resposne to the muslim predators on hindu widows. after islam came the british. initially ther were just as violent as teh muslims read the history of goa. what xians did to the hindus. then after they became more smart. they created an education system in india that practically made hindus forget their own history and culture, and it made hindus hat hinduism. it created englishmen in the body of the hindus. despite all this, hinduism has survived even when it is not organized. now there is a need to organise to respond to islam and xianity in india. if you are a xian or have influence on xians, please tell them to not support any missionaries in india. so, looking at the long and brutal treatment to the hindus, the right thing for you could be to look how hinduism survived, and see those families who lived by hindiusm and see the result. they are silent. they will not come on news. if you look for gutters, you will find gutters. and it would not be fair to defame hinduism. hinduism is in bhagavad gita and with the hindu preqchers ahd the serious followers of hinduism. Hare krishna are hindus, in my view, and there a milliosn all over the world, in all colors and nationalities. they practice bhakti yoga very well. find case of a dowary or sati in them. tell here what you find. hindus need work within or without. are you just a reporter or a missionary? we need missionaries - hindus missionaries. be a good hindu first, and then work to stop the malpractice of hinduism. any effort by a non hindu to stop malpractice is also welcome, but any effort to convert will not be tolerated. we do not convert, so we do not like to be converted. yes, there is hope. humanist is an atheist generally, still hindus do not ahve any heartburn about him/her. i suggest you erad gita and understnad hinduism well. then encourage hindus to lie by gita, and if htey do, then you willnot see the problems you described. you also will find that gita gives a universal dharma. gita is not a private property of any one nation or person. it is for all. however, it is the hindus who have kept that konwledge well understood for the new generations of the world. hope it helps. those who look for gutters have different intentions (good or bad). it feel that your intention is good and respectable. so i have responded in length.

you welcome. pick a user name. it helps. << How are such titles bestowed on someone ? >> hinduism is not an organized religion. (however organizing is required now to respond to islam and xianity in india.) however, there are religious institutions carrying on parampara. an aacharya comes from there. a guru there tells who under him/her is an aacharya. sometimes people just tell someone is an aacharya and follow him/her. politicians (bad ones) sometime raise an aaacharya who is not qualified. gandhi was made a 'mahatma' thus. << Who becomes an acharya, why, what did he do to receive the title and who gives this title ? Same for Swami. >> his/her guru and his followers know him/her for a long time (10-20 years). an accharya or a swami's life is an open bbook to all. he/she does not seek privacy rights. finally, hhis/her guru blesses him/her telling that from that point on he/she is an aacharya. first one becomes a swami, then an acharya. all swamis however do not become an aacharya. << Are these titles bestowed on holy women also or only to men ? >> to any one qualifeid. however, vedic scriputers do not encourage women to become aacharya or swami. brahmaji's work must continue, and therefore women can play a best role as a loving daughter, loving sister, loving wife, and loving mother. she has tremendeous capacity to love. therefore she is always protected in vedic culture. if a young woman renounced she world, then some strong brute could rape her or make her pragnent. this forces her to come back in the world. for this reason, the vedas do not encourge women to become swaminis. but the freedom is there. india has produced many great women saints.

<< The world is real --it is real because it is eternal and part of the absolute world... the only thing is that is periodically destroyed and recreated >> yes, but is temporary. between real (reality and truth) and a jiva is a cloud of ignorance or maya. reality or truth is silent. one who realizes the truth at a level may or may not share it with othres depending upon his/her desires, greed etc. truth or reality is perceived at different levels by different people depending upon their advancement towards god or the truth. << The world is a prison --yes, we are rebellious to the authority of god, we are thrown out from vaikunta and we come in this prison suffering, taking borth, and dieing >> rather than saying it is a prison, it would be better to say it is a play ground where krishna allows jivas to forget Him who try to control the material world to enjoy with sences independent of krishna. becaue krishna loves all jivas/souls, and he gives each full freedom, he does not hate any one. so he sends some to the play ground where His maya helps one to forget krishna. the choice to come here was ours, not krishna's. He just freely allowed it. if he had to punish a soul, he might as well force him to stay in vaikuntha. the point to remember is that in vaikuntha no one can cause problems to any one, becaue all residents are very perfect/smart. you cannot cheat any one, cannot seduce any one, cannot robe any one, etc.. there are no commercials. some dont like it, and so they come here, and krishna being kind allows it. << The world is a puppet show ---because we have very little freedom, we are forced in our actions by ur past karma >> there is no full freedom, but there is some. the most valuable freedom is to realize that we made a wrong choice to come here, know krishna, and go back to Him. however, to totally not care for the residents here (not make them KC) is very greedy attitude and a vaishnava should not be so greedy. << The world is an illusion ---no... world is real and part of the absolute... we have an illusory view because we are illuded an blinded by god's energy maya >> the world just IS (and is constantly changing). it all depends upon us as to what we perceive. but the reality/truth is one. it does not depend upon what we perceive. << The world is a school to gain knowledge >> knowledge can be gained any time/any place. there are so many branches of knowledge. krishna says that the knowledge of aatma and paramatma, is knowledge, most valuable. the rest is not. in the world, so many forces are acting on you simultaneously. for any action you make there is a reaction that can come sooner or later. to figure what is best to do is a puzzle for most. so, some learn by their own experience because they do not trust any one. others learn from those who have known it (more or less) and are not enemies. thus guru, sadhus, and shastras are the guides telling what to do and not to do. this material world will alwasy have schools, for some basic education (even up to ph d level). and one always learns more or less all the life. the question is what did he/she learn? one can spend a million lives learning thinsgs that really may not have any real value for param gati. vaikunthas do not have schools. all there are well advanced. there is just lila.

<< As for image worship, seeing GOD in Jiva's etc. is alright. --no.. it is not allright, jiva is not god, i am not god and you are not god... otherwise how can you lose the god's features or forget to be god? god is CIT.. conscious, eternally conscious.. maya is his energy, he's not subordinate to maya >> IshvarH sarva bhUtAnAm hridesherjuna tishthati brAmayan sarva bhUtAni yantrArudhAni mAyayA - Kirshna (gita) krishna is every where, but jiva is jiva, and god is god per vaishnav view.

<< We are Shakdvipiya Brahmin originated from those Shakdvip origin Brahmins and also called Magi Brahmin. We are specialized in Ayurveda(old Indian method of treatment) and astronomy, astrology and we are Sun worshiper. ...I hope that they were our forefathers. >> i suppose you are talking about your family or commmunity and not all the hindus in general. from india, hinduism once was spread over large part of the globe, including iran. and it was spread without forceful conversion or any deliberte attempt to spread it.

and iran is not an island.

your question indicates you have some wrong concept, or you have desire to defame hindus wrongly. pick a user name and i will answer.

the word aacharya means one who teaches by example (his/her own behaviour). a greatest authority of the time in a perticular branch of hinduims is an aacharya. e.g. ramanuj, madhva, nimbarka, chaitanya, and vallabha were aacharyas. sri shankara was also an aacharya of advaita. a colege principla in india is also called an aacharya ( just to give respect). the word swami means a controller. one hwo has all his senses in full controll is called a swami or goswami. hindu women also call their husband as swami. generally, a swami for hindus is one who has renounced the world and preaches dharma. a swami lives for god, dharma, and dhama propagation. a swami is fear less, free from anxiety or worry. he/she is a spiritual guide of the society. same for aacharya.

<< In view of the overwhelming evidence led above, historians, scholars, students of history and lay men alike should take note that they had better revise their text books of ancient world history. The existence of Hindu customs, shrines, Sanskrit names of whole regions, countries and towns and the Vikramaditya inscriptions reproduced at the beginning are a thumping proof that Indian Kshatriyas once ruled over the vast region from Bali to Baltic and Korea to Kaaba in Mecca, Arabia at the very least. >> very good! Thanks barney!