gHari

If x =2 and y =3; then since pies are square (except when they're round), we can conclude that x plus z = 29387464. Furthermore since z sounds like c we can extrapolate that c must be 8756865. Clearly algebra is leading us back to the Vedic school of thought: Krsnas = svayam bhagavan

I think we're all glad we're not on that other forum.

Galatians 5 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Srila Prabhupada discusses the views of early Christian philosopher, Origen: HayagrIva: This is Origen, who lived from 185–254 A.D., and he studied at Alexandria, Egypt, during the same time as Plotinus. In fact he knew Plotinus, but Origen was a Christian and is considered the founder of Christian philosophy. He believed that ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So he differed from Plotinus in the belief that God has personality. PrabhupAda: Yes. God is personal. He is also believing personality. "Father," he says, Plotinus, but his ideas are not very clear. Did he not, Plotinus, say "the fatherland"? HayagrIva: He mentioned the father, but that... PrabhupAda: The father is person. Anyway, we shall discuss this tomorrow. HayagrIva: The... PrabhupAda: What is this philosopher? HayagrIva: Origen. PrabhupAda: Origen. All right. We shall discuss tomorrow. HayagrIva: You want to discuss tomorrow? [break] I'm just touching the main points in these, but since we're not interested in comparative theology, I'm just touching the main philosophical differences in these early Christian theologian philosophers. Origen believed that the ultimate reality, which is spiritual, consists of the Supreme Infinite Person, God, as well as individual personalities. Ultimate reality is the interrelationships of persons with each other and with the Infinite Person, God. So here he differs from the Greeks, who were basically impersonal. PrabhupAda: Our Vedic conception is almost the same, that the individual souls, or living entities, innumerable, and each one of them has an intimate relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the material condition of life the living entity has forgotten his relationship, and when, by the process of devotional service, he comes to his liberated position, at that time he revives his old relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. HayagrIva: Origen ascribed to the doctrine of the Trinity. In the Trinity, God the father is Supreme, God the son, who's called the logos, L-O-G-O-S, which is Greek for word, is subordinate to the father, and he brings the material world into existence. PrabhupAda: Who? HayagrIva: The son. God the son brings the material world into existence. God the father is not the direct creator; it is the son who is the direct creator. The Ho... The third aspect of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit, and he is in turn subordinate to the, to the son. So these Holy Spirits, they liken unto the... PrabhupAda: Holy Spirit, he is the son? HayagrIva: There's the father. PrabhupAda: Father. HayagrIva: There's the son, who is the direct creator of the material, like BrahmA. PrabhupAda: The son, the son. HayagrIva: Like BrahmA, the perfect son. And then there's the Holy Spirit, that is all-pervasive. And all three of these aspects are divine and co-eternal. They exist..., they've always existed within the Trinity of God. They've always existed simultaneously. PrabhupAda: So our conception is--"our" means Vedic conception--that KRSNa is the original Personality of Godhead, as it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gItA, ahaM sarvasya prabhavaH: [bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everyone." Either you call the son or the Holy Ghost, it doesn't matter, but the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the origin. Then, He has got expansion. That expansion is not actually His son... Or there are two kinds of expansion: His personal expansions and His expansion as part and parcel. His personal expansion is called ViSNu-tattva, and the part and parcel expansion is called jIva-tattva--in Sanskrit technical words, svAMza and vibhinnAMza. The personal expansion there are also many varieties--puruSa-avatAra, saktyAveza-avatAra, manvantara-avatAra, many varieties. So generally, His personal expansion for creation of this material world are three also, accepted as BrahmA, ViSNu, Mahezvara. ViSNu is personal expansion, and BrahmA is expansion of the living entity, or the vibhinnAMza. And another expansion, via-media between the personal expansion and expansion of jIva, the via-media expansion is called Siva. So the material creation is done by personal expansion primarily--the whole material ingredients, and then with the ingredients the guNa-avatAra, BrahmA, he creates particularly. And Lord Siva, when the time is right, he annihilates. So this creation, material creation, is created, maintained for sometimes, and again dissolved or annihilated. BhUtvA bhUtvA pralIyate [bg. 8.19]. This is the nature of the external potency. There are others, detailed information, described in the Caitanya-caritAmRta, but the jIvas, or the living entities, they are considered as the sons, and they have got two positions: one liberated position, one conditioned position. Those who are liberated, they are personally associating with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and those who are fallen in this material world, they have, almost all of them, have forgotten, and suffering within this material world in different forms of material body. But they can be delivered from this material conditioned life to liberated position by KRSNa consciousness understanding, which means that there are zAstras, Vedic knowledge, and the guru which..., who is fully cognizant of Vedic knowledge and preaches and delivers the conditioned soul on behalf of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the Vedic conception. HayagrIva: Origen believed that it is through divine grace and man's free will working together that the individual soul attains perfection, and perfection consists of attaining a personal relationship with the Infinite Person. PrabhupAda: Yes. That is called Bhakti-mArga. The Absolute Truth is manifested in three features: Brahman, ParamAtmA, and BhagavAn. BhagavAn is the personal feature, and ParamAtmA feature may be compared with the Holy Ghost when situated in everyone's heart. And Brahman feature, everywhere. By His energy He is present everywhere. So the perfection, highest perfection of spiritual life, is to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the person, personal feature of the Lord, and engages himself, the living entity engages himself in His service. Then he is situated in his original, constitutional position, and he is eternally happy and blissful. HayagrIva: Just as man's free will brought about his fall, man's free will can also bring about his salvation. By becoming detached from matter, man can return to God, but this detachment from matter is brought about by the assistance of the Christ. PrabhupAda: Yes. That is our conception also, that the fallen soul is rotating within this material world, within this universe, up and down in different forms of life, and in his developed condition of understanding he is enlightened by God as it is instructed in the Bhagavad-gItA, and the spiritual master gives him full enlightenment. Then what he says, the perfection? HayagrIva: His detachment from matter... PrabhupAda: Yes. When he understands his pleasing, as situation with God, paraM dRSTvA nivartate... When he understands the transcendental pleasing situation of his life, he automatically gives up this material bodily attachment. That is his freedom. And when he actually, in his spiritual identity, engaged in the service of the Lord, that is his normal position. [break] HayagrIva: This is the continuation of Origen. Origen believed that all the elements that are found in the material body are also found in the spiritual body, which he called the interior man. He says, "God created man not taking the dust of the earth like the second time, but He created him after the image of God," that is initially, "this being after the likeness of God was immaterial, superior to any corporeal hypothesis. There are thus two men in each one of us, as every exterior man has for homonym the interior man. So it is for all His members, and one can say that every member of the exterior man can be found under this name in the interior man." So that for every corresponding sense that we have in the exterior body, there's a corresponding sense in the interior or the spiritual body which exists within. PrabhupAda: The spirit soul is within this material body, but the spirit soul has no material body originally. There is a spiritual body of the spirit soul eternally existing, and the material body is simply coating of the spiritual body. This material body is considered as coating, shirt-coat. It is cut according to the bodily shape. Just ordinarily we can see the tailor makes the shirt and coat according to the shape of the body. Similarly, these material elements, earth, water, fire, etc., mixed together, becomes like a clay, and it is coated over the spiritual body. The spiritual body has no connection with the material body. So because the spiritual body has got shape, the material body also takes a shape. That is understanding. But material body has nothing to do with the spiritual body. It is simply external coating, or it is a kind of contamination for suffering of the spirit soul. As soon as he is coated with this material contamination, he identifies himself with the coating and he forgets his real, spiritual body. That is called mAyA, ignorance, and this ignorance continues so long he is not fully KRSNa conscious. When one becomes fully KRSNa conscious, then he understands that this material body is the external coating; he is different from this material body. That condition, that uncontaminated understanding, is called brahma-bhUtaH. The spirit soul is Brahman. He was under the illusion of bodily concept of life--that is called jIva-bhUtaH--and when he understands that he is not this body, he is the spirit soul within the body, that is called brahma-bhUtaH. So when one comes to this understanding of his spiritual identity, he becomes joyful, brahma-bhUtaH prasannAtmA na zocati na kAGkSati [bg. 18.54], he has no more any hankering or lamentation. In that position he sees all other living entities as spirit soul. He does not see the outward covering. Even in a dog he sees the spirit soul covered by the body of a dog, and similarly a learned brAhmaNa, he also sees the spirit soul covered by the material body designated as learned brAhmaNa. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gItA this conception is summarized, vidyA-vinaya-sampanne brahmaNe gavi hastini zuni caiva zva-pAke ca paNDitAH sama-darzinaH [bg. 5.18] So up to the animal bodily concept of life, one is unable to understand his spiritual identity. But in the civilized form of life, when the society is divided into eight divisions, varNa and Azrama--four varNas and four Azramas--brahman, kSatriya, vaizya, zUdra, four varNas, brahmacArI, and gRhastha, vAnaprastha, and sannyAsI... So a brAhmaNa from the social status, when he becomes elevated to the position of a sannyAsI, that is the highest perfectional stage in this material world, and at that stage only he can realize his original constitutional position and he acts accordingly, and thus he becomes delivered, which is called mukti. Mukti means to understand his own constitutional position and act accordingly, and conditional life means to identify with the body and act accordingly. So in the mukti state the activities are different from the conditional state. Therefore the devotional service is the activity of the liberated stage. So anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he maintains his spiritual identity, and therefore he is called liberated even though in this conditional material body. HayagrIva: Origen believed that the interior man, or the spiritual body, also has spiritual senses which enable the soul to taste, see, touch and contemplate the things of God. PrabhupAda: Yes, that is devotional life. HayagrIva: During his lifetime Origen was a great teacher and was very much in demand. For him, preaching simply meant explaining the words of God and no more. He believed that first of all a preacher must be a man of prayer and must be in contact with God, and that he should pray for a better understanding of the scriptures. PrabhupAda: Yes. That is real preacher. That is explained in the Vedic literature, zravaNaM kIrtanam. First of all he becomes perfect by hearing. This is called zravaNam. And when he is perfectly situated in spiritual life by hearing perfectly from the perfectly authorized person, then his next stage begins, kIrtanam. That is preaching. That zravaNaM kIrtanam, everyone is hearing in this material world. Everyone is hearing. Even this material educationist, he also hears from the material person, professor. That hearing is there. Then he acts when he is grown-up, passed his examination, sometimes acts as professor. The same process: if one hears from the perfect spiritualized person, he becomes perfect, then he becomes actual preacher. Preaching, zravaNaM kIrtanam, about ViSNu, not for any other person within this material world. The Supreme Person, transcendental Personality of Godhead, to hear about Him and to preach about Him, that is the duty of a liberated soul. HayagrIva: As far as seeming contradictions and seeming absurdities in scripture are concerned, Origen considered these as stumbling blocks allowed by God to exist in order for man to go beyond the literal meaning. He says, "In some cases no useful meaning attaches to the obvious interpretation, but everything in scripture has a spiritual meaning, but not all of it has a literal meaning." PrabhupAda: Literal... Generally, every word in the scripture there is literal meaning, but one who cannot understand properly because one does not hear from the proper person, he makes some interpretation. But there is no need of interpretation in the words of God. It may be that the words of God sometimes cannot be understood by ordinary person; therefore he requires to understand through the via-media of transparent guru. Guru is fully cognizant of the words spoken by God. One has to accept, therefore, a guru to go through the scripture properly. Generally there is no ambiguity in the words of God, but due to our lack of perfect knowledge we sometimes cannot understand and try to interpret. But this is, this interpretation is not at all feasible, because imperfect person interpreting means whatever he interprets, that is imperfect. So the proper import of the words of scripture or words of God should be understood from a person who has realized God. HayagrIva: For Origen there are two rebirths. One is a baptism, which is something like an initiation, and then there is a complete purification, a rebirth in the spiritual world with Christ. So baptism is compared to a shadow of the ultimate rebirth, and when the soul is reborn with Christ, it receives a spiritual body like Christ and beholds Christ face to face. PrabhupAda: Christ behold? HayagrIva: The individual soul can then see Christ face to face when he attains his spiritual body. PrabhupAda: What is the position of Christ? HayagrIva: What is the position of Christ? PrabhupAda: He, does he describe anything? HayagrIva: Well, not Origen. The position of Christ is that he is seated at the right hand of the father, that he is in the spiritual sky with the father. PrabhupAda: No, here, when Christ was present, so so many persons saw him. So what is the position? HayagrIva: What was the position of those people? Well those who saw him were very special people, but they saw him in many different ways, just as they saw KRSNa in different ways when He was on this earth. Different people saw Him differently. PrabhupAda: (aside:) This is, that, disturbing. HayagrIva: Hm? Is this clear? PrabhupAda: No, I am talking to him. (pause) So different persons, so that is all right. According to the status of a person, he sees another person individually. That is all right. So Christ is in his full spiritual body, that is the idea? HayagrIva: That's the idea. PrabhupAda: Oh, yes. We also think like that. HayagrIva: He didn't believe that the individual soul existed from all eternity. It was created. The... PrabhupAda: No. HayagrIva: The rational natures that were made in the beginning did not always exist. They came into being when they were created. PrabhupAda: That is not correct. The living entity is eternally existing, as God is eternally existing, the living entity who is the part and parcel of God. But the living entity, as we have several times..., being a small spark, sometimes the illumination is extinguished or stopped for the time being, but he is eternally existing, changing the body, na hanyate hanyamAne zarIre [bg. 2.20], after the destruction of the body. The material life means the body is destructed, one body after another, but the living being is eternally existing, na hanyate hanyamAne zarIre [bg. 2.20]. HayagrIva: He uses this metaphor. He writes, "The human body has unity because its various members are all made for specific functions in it, and it is bounded by a single soul. In the same way, it seems to me, the whole immense, gigantic world should be regarded as one being kept alive by God's power and logos, as by a single soul." PrabhupAda: But single soul is created, he says. But that single soul, his spiritual identity is never created. That is the difference between matter and spirit. Anything material, that is created. Spiritual is never created. HayagrIva: At the same time... PrabhupAda: (aside:) You go and wash your face with water, running. HayagrIva: At the same time Origen differed from the later Church tradition in his belief in the transmigration of the soul. Although he believed that the soul was originally created, he believed that it transmigrated, and it transmigrated because the soul, the individual soul, could always refuse to give itself to God, although he believed that ultimately the time will come when everyone will return, and God's rule will be restored to its original integrity. This differed from later Christian tradition, which said that the choice one made in this one lifetime was decisive for all eternity. Origen doesn't believe this. He believes that you can be reincarnated at the end of this lifetime if you don't attain the ultimate goal. You'd be reincarnated in some other form. PrabhupAda: Yes. That is our version of the Vedas. Unless he is liberated or goes to the kingdom of God, he is, repeats, transforms, or transmigrates from one material body to another, because material body is not eternal. You can enter one material body; the material body grows or it remains for sometime; then it becomes old, and then it is useless for any purpose; you have to give up this material body and enter again into a new material body. Then you continue or fulfill your desire in that body, again it becomes old, again you have to give up, and again you have to accept another new body. Because everything material deteriorates, and the soul, being eternal, it cannot remain in the deteriorated body to function materially; therefore transmigration of the soul is essential. As the example is given that when you have got a material shirt and coat, when it is old enough, it cannot be used, you have to throw it out and accept another new shirt and coat. The material conditional life is like that. That is called transmigration. HayagrIva: It's interesting that Origen did not reject transmigration, neither did Christ reject transmigration. It wasn't until later, until the next philosopher that we take up, Augustine, that the idea of... PrabhupAda: Transmigration is... HayagrIva: Transmigration (indistinct). PrabhupAda: ...philosophical and, I mean, fact. The example is very nicely given in the Bhagavad-gItA, with dress. As a person cannot continue the same dress perpetually--the dress becomes old, useless, and he has to change his dress--so the living being is eternal, but he has to accept a material body for material sense gratification. But the body cannot endure perpetually. Therefore it is very natural to understand that he has to change the body exactly like he has to change the dress. HayagrIva: So that's the conclusion of Origen. (end)

Srila Prabhupada equated the Holy Spirit to Paramatma. Jesus described Him as the Comforter and He was also known as the Holy Ghost.

Obviously guru and Krsna are pleased. Don't worry about misconceived perceptions of rejection by anyone. No doubt we're all very happy for you, and for me at least, perhaps just a little envious. You were born to do this, RamRam.

Sounds like a great job.

Indeed, who cares? The truth is the truth, no matter who says it. We can only demonstrate that truth and carry it to the world on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. Unless of course, we have our own conflicting agenda.

Yes, once again demonstrating the higher position of the Vaishnava. We can see Godliness everywhere, but they can only see it in their church. They have yet to advance beyond the veil of the words and idioms of their teachings. In thiis age of the internet it is absolutely shameful that so many Christian clerics have remained backwards heehaw religious rednecks. Their laziness, insincerity and arrogance cause them to miss so much mercy, even very likely missing the boat entirely due to pompous offense. The great saint and Vaishnava Acarya, Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has explained to his disciples: KRSNa, Christ... Of course, this question was several times put to me. Christ says that "I am son of God." And KRSNa says "I am God." So there is no difference. Son of God and God, we respect everyone. If I respect your father, I respect you also. Do you mean to say if I disrespect your father, you'll be pleased upon me? No. That is our philosophy. So Caitanya MahAprabhu says that I am servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of KRSNa [Cc. Madhya 13.80]. So if anyone loves KRSNa, he must love Lord Jesus Christ also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus Christ he must love KRSNa. If he says, "Why shall I love KRSNa? I shall love Jesus Christ," then he has no knowledge. And if one says, "Why shall I love Jesus Christ? I shall love...", then he has also no knowledge. If one understands KRSNa, then he will understand Jesus Christ. If one understands Jesus Christ, you'll understand KRSNa. So this is the true position of the Vaishnava. And it should be the true position of the Christian as well. So let it be done.

http://vedabase.net/sb/2/9/4/en

Jivatma - spirit soul. The atma is the soul, the eternal essence of the living entity jiva. Right now the jiva's atma is covered with the false-ego it calls Tirisilex among other names. The jiva is the whole thing: the original eternal unborn atma plus all its illusive coverings of body, mind and senses that have evolved from the false-ego (ahankara). However atma and jiva will be used to mean the same thing often, with atma sometimes meaning body or mind as well. Perhaps it depends on the vantage point of the comments: from here encased in the body or from there free with Paramatma. The Upanishads explain that the jiva is like a tree. Sitting in that tree are two birds: one the atma, and the other the Paramatma (Param-atma - beyond the soul, or Supersoul, or God in the heart, aka caitya-guru). Paramatma is witnessing as the atma is eating the fruit of the tree. He is waiting for the atma to turn to Him. This is our situation - too attached to enjoying the fruit of the tree, (the mind, senses of the body). When we stop eating the fruit of the tree, and turn to the Supersoul, then we begin our journey towards perfection. The goal of yoga is to meet the Supersoul in the heart (thus realizing the self [atma, soul] who is the witness of Supersoul as the world falls away), and then following the dictates of the Supersoul who is guru. Indeed the external spiritual master is said to be the external manifestation of this Supersoul caitya-guru. Caitya-guru will take us to Krsna; we will be with Him when we are not attached. BG 6.6p: "Real yoga practice entails meeting the ParamAtmA within the heart and then following His dictation".

Download Public Domain Book Siddhartha is an entertaining glimpse into Hindu life exploring the life of a seeker. Hesse's book called Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game) is even more powerful. It won him the Nobel Prize for Literature.

Let us all do our best to leave the world a strong ISKCON. That is the least we can do in appreciation for the association of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. As we get older, let us all forget about our name and standing in the community of hellions, and let the reality of Sri Krsna sankirtana flow from our hearts constantly. We can do it. Perhaps the age 70 would be appropriate. Let us all board our own Jaladuta and follow our feet to perfection in every town and village.

A lot of it is likely just utilizing features of reality that the common man cannot see ... like higher dimensions, etc. Certainly Krsna has mystical powers and yet for Him such 'power' just is. Just is His nature. For He Just Is. Glad that Just Are, So I can just be. gHari

Die to live.

http://vedabase.net/sb/11/2/37/en

Srila Sridhara Gosvami Maharaja spoke about when to preach in SERMON ONE: Srila Sridhara Swami, the renowned commentator of Srimad-Bhagavatam, has stated, sa carpitaiva sati yadi kriyeta, na tu krta sati pascad arpyeta: "Devotional services must be first offered to the Lord, then performed; not performed and offered afterwards." We should be already committed when we come to serve, and not that we shall collect capital and later try to utilize it in the service of the Lord. The commitment is to Him, to Krsna. I have come to know about Him for Him, not for me or anyone else. Then, why is there a preaching department for others' benefit? That department exists only because of the instruction from above. Only if I receive an impression from that higher quarter, "Go and preach," shall I do so, and only then will my preaching be service, and never if it is done for the name and fame that "I am a good preacher doing good work, etc." I must have engagement from the higher office, and only on their behalf I shall preach; then it will be genuine preaching . Otherwise, it will be trading. Na sa bhrtyah sa vai vanik: Prahlada Maharaja has warned us against this trading mentality in the name of spiritual truth.

Who'd have thought. Absolutely fascinating. Six must be a magic number in the cold. Now when a snowflake melts on my nose I'll think about the piece of art the world has lost.

<tt><big><tt><big>After vacation this family noticed their water bill was very high. Nothing was leaking, and it appeared no one had been in the house. The dog was still outside, and the cat was still inside, so they were stumped as to how so much water had been used. They suspected someone was turning on a tap and running it during the night. Last night they heard water running, grabbed the camcorder to get a movie of the law breaker in action to give to the police. The water thief was caught on tape: </big></tt></big></tt> <center>Water Thief in Action </center>

When you couldn't understand Lord Krsna's words in the Srimad-Bhagavatam verses quoted, I assumed that your pain had stolen your intelligence. However now, I think that perhaps you are simply not capable of understanding things as they are. It will be best for you to abandon your idea that you are capable of discussing and understanding talks of philosophy. You should simply try to serve authorities and cultivate humility. The Bhagavatam verses for any sensible person should be enough to resolve any questions. You are now arguing with Krsna, Himself. It has become quite unhealthy. Recognize your limitations and move on before you destroy your only hope. Incidentally, previous references to your 'arrogance' related to your actual belief that you could understand how karma works, why this world exists, how this world works, and your understanding of the material presented in this thread. It related to your reaction when you did not understand our answers, to your offensive attitude, and to your expecting us to do your homework for you --- instead of approaching Supersoul yourself like any honest devotee would. But maybe you no longer believe in Supersoul, since He won't present Himself to you; indeed perhaps He has abandoned you as we are preparing to.

We place ourselves into illusion. We have the independence, the free will to do that. Krsna is only correcting that flaw, or as said before He is satisfying our desire to enjoy separately (this requires our belief that we are the controllers, we are this body, that we just took birth as a bag of flesh on this planet and all is for our enjoyment) ... then correcting that desire. This is our free will .... love God or love the world. Our apathy towards Krsna is corrected, for our own good. The deeper truth is that this illusion, our apparent punishment by karmic reactions are all simply Krsna's mercy, His kindness in showing us our true fortune in the Kingdom with Him. Karma is not really punishment/reward - it is simply what is required to correct us, to perfect us. If you think there is a better way, then suggest it. Or if you think it would be better to remain apathetic towards God forever, then perhaps that is indeed currently being arranged for you through your offenses. For someone who has such a hold on the bodily conception of life, it is no wonder you fight so feverously so irrationally to save your illusion. It will be simpler to remain an atheist, than to have to so hate a God who would allow your friends to suffer and die.

The truth is that there is a very glaring reference to reincarnation in the Bible that the Emperor's editors missed. Jesus notes that John the Baptist is Elijah, come again calling in the wilderness. The classic heehaw John 14.6 quote is placed into perspective by the previous verse. Context is everything. They have their cheaters, just as we do. They talk like they know what they're talking about for name and fame, just like we do. The Christians are being cheated. The clergy even cheat themselves. I associated for two years with the top clerics of a major Christian denomination, and they admitted that they had no idea how to love God. But they still collected a paycheck. They had no concept of the benefits of religious life or the soul or the Kingdom. In short, they had no realized knowledge, simply a bunch of catch-phrases they use to protect their jobs of being professional 'nice guys'. I summed up organized Christianity for a lady a few days back: the churches teach you how to pretend to love God. If you want to follow Jesus, then follow Jesus. Forget dogma. Follow Jesus if you can. But it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. So the blind will lead the blind, even here.

You haven't been listening and your arrogance is playing you for a fool. Why don't I have the free will to go to God whenever the hell I want? This sucks. Boo hoo. I want my money back. I am too great to be placed in such an inferior position. I am great. When I demand, I expect results. Don't you know who I am? Yes, I know who you are. You are a false-ego, ahankara, the resultant aggregate accumulation of the impressions experienced during billions of lifetimes here in the material worlds. You will act according to the nature you have acquired though the conditioning received throughout these billions of past lives, no differently than Pavlov's salivating dogs would behave according to their conditioning. Whose fault is it? Yours - you can choose God or illusion. Reality or the false-ego. Your only hope is humility. It's not as simple as you want to think. Don't trust your mind. Trust God. He is your best friend. If you need to speculate, then keep that as an axiom. Better yet, get yourself some buddhi-yogam. Getting all emotional, sarcastic and offensive about silly straw dogs you create from fantasy is hardly a mature or sincere approach to coming to God.

Lee, God has somehow brought you to the place where the infinite bends closest to the finite. Here you will find the Ultimate Truth and His Grace. This is best done by following God's directions and the directions of His pure disciple which are revealed in the sacred conversation known as the Bhagavad-gita As It Is (or the Song of God). Everything is given there. Many methods and complete knowledge eventually lead one along the miraculous path to God. And the perfection of life. Only one thing is required for success: sincerity. Once on Krsna's path, that sincerity will blossom into an absolute all-encompassing desire to be with Him - and Him alone always. Then you will have your wish, the wish throbbing in the core of everyone's heart of hearts. Good luck, gHari

I wish guests would put an X or something on their posts - some sort of etiquette - so we could disregard every word coming from that anti-Jesus clown. Where do we get these guys? What interest could they possibly have in our discussions, except to harrass the suras? Guests, if you don't want to be considered the shameful one, then mark your posts somehow - like "Love and kisses, Poster108". As for me, unnamed Guests no longer exist on this forum. That was just too demoniac to tolerate ever again.