gHari

Free will? Because you cannot flap your arms and fly, does that mean you do not have the free will to fly? No, that's just the way the material world works. Gravity is a foundation, an underlying axiomatic law. So is the illusion that the body is the self. Under the spell of this illusion the living entity satisfies and then eventually erases its desire to enjoy separately from Sri Krsna. That's how the process works here in never-neverland. That is how it has always worked. Real free will is the choice to either serve God or serve the world, moment to moment. Those are really the only two choices involved in free will. The rest that appears like free will is simply an illusion, our endless conditioning. We are either swept away by love of God, or swept away by the three modes of nature, the mechanical enactment of our accumulated false ego desires. So, changing the normal construct of the world (i.e. destroying the illusion that the body is the self) is exactly like suspending the law of gravity. Lord Krsna in the earlier Bhagavatam quotes explains how the illusion works - that we appear to have just manifested, with no memory of prior existence. There is your sastra you've demanded, Krsna's direct words. If you don't see it. Read and read until you do. This is not rocket science. Quite frankly, even in this life I have difficulty assigning karmic results to their karmic causes. With billions of lifetimes of memories the assignment would be virtually impossible. If/when you are wise you'll realize that the cloud that stops you from seeing this simple answer to the question of previous lives, is the same cloud that is hiding atma. With a little honesty and humility your intelligence can dismantle the impediment. But right now you are in danger of facing the hopeless journey alone.

Svarupa refers to our eternal spiritual form (body).

Jesus described them like this: J ohn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms

A couple of posts ago: From the above understanding conveyed by Krsna in the Bhagavatam it would appear that to create the complete illusion that the body is the self, all past life experiences are gone. That certainly seems a logical requirement for the conditioned soul to enjoy that incarnation as a material body. It's over, guys. If you don't get it, then read it and read it until you do. It's pretty obvious after a little thought about the purpose of the material world. It's over. It's time to get real about Krsna.

SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura replies that by the mystic power of jAti-smara one can remember one's previous body.

From the above understanding conveyed by Krsna in the Bhagavatam it would appear that to create the complete illusion that the body is the self, all past life experiences are gone. That certainly seems a logical requirement for the conditioned soul to enjoy that incarnation as a material body.

PrabhupAda: Yes. That is karma. KarmaNA, or according to our past karmas, we are in a particular position. So this position can be changed. It is not that it will continue. Therefore KRSNa says that "You are suffering on account of your past misdeeds, the reaction, but this suffering is caused on account of your not surrendering unto Me. Now you surrender. I will stop this reaction of...," ahaM tvAM sarva-pApebhyo [bg. 18.66]. This offer is already there, but still we do not take advantage. That is our dog's obstinacy, and we are suffering, and we shall continue to suffer. HayagrIva: From this, Bergson concludes that we are evolving, that we learn from an accumulation of experience, that we cannot, in a sense, repeat the same mistake twice. He writes, "From this survival of the past, it follows that consciousness cannot go through the same state twice. Circumstances may still be the same, but they will act no longer on the same person since they find him in a new moment of his history. Our personality, which is being built up each instant with its accumulated experience, changes without ceasing. Thus our personality shoots, grows and ripens without ceasing." PrabhupAda: No. There is no cessation because the soul is eternal, so his consciousness is also eternal. But it is changing according to the circumstances, association, time, place, and the party changes. Therefore good association required. SAdhu-saGga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. It is called sAdhu-saGga, association with the devotees. By good association the consciousness can be changed from material to spiritual. That is the KRSNa consciousness movement, how to change the consciousness from matter to KRSNa. So that requires guidance. The guidance is KRSNa's instruction and the spiritual master. KRSNa is so kind that he has given us zAstra and the sAdhu and guru. So if we take advantage of that then we become reformed, our life becomes successful. HayagrIva: There seems to be an inconsistency here when he says, "our personality, which is being built up with its accumulated experience." Now if personality is determined by experience and if death means a forgetting of our past experience, then a new personality must emerge when we take on a new body. PrabhupAda: No. The..., your deeds in the past you may forget, but KRSNa does not forget. He therefore gives you chance that "You wanted to do this, now here is the opportunity, you do it." HayagrIva: At death it's said that we take the mind... PrabhupAda: Death means the body is changed. HayagrIva: Yes. PrabhupAda: But the soul is not changed. So soul continues with his reaction of past deeds, and even though he forgets what he has done in the past, KRSNa is there. He reminds that "You wanted to do this. Do it now." HayagrIva: The person is the same but the false personality changes then? PrabhupAda: Yes. So this personality can change to become perfect if he follows the instruction of KRSNa. HayagrIva: Because obviously, say in my next life, I'll be a different personality. PrabhupAda: Yes. According to your work, this karmaNA daiva netreNa [sB 3.31.1], by..., the body will be selected, not by you but by superior authority, that "This man has acted like this, so he should get this body." HayagrIva: If at death the soul takes the mind, intelligence, and ego with it... PrabhupAda: Yes. HayagrIva: ...into a new body... If that's the case, isn't it possible for the mind to actually remember its past lives? PrabhupAda: Sometimes he remembers. There are many instances, just like BhArata MahArAja. He got the body of an animal, but by the grace of KRSNa that he remembered everything of his past life. Therefore KRSNa said, mattaH smRtir jJAnam apohanam, "That I am." BhArata MahArAja's remembrance, it is due to KRSNa's mercy. He was a devotee, but he neglected his devotional service on account for being too much attached to a small deer. So at the time of death he was thinking of the deer, he got the body of a deer. But KRSNa, out of His great mercy, He reminded him that "You are in such a position now. You have become a deer. So don't forget Me, My service." So he did that. He was always staying with devotees, that "By my fault I have got this body, so let me remain in this life with the devotees." So next life he took birth in a nice brAhmaNa's family, but due to his past experience, that "I fell down," he remained just like a dull brain, not associating with anyone, that "I cannot fall again." So even in the next birth KRSNa can remind him of his past birth and guide him.

Srimad Bhagavatam 11.22.35-53: <center> zrI-uddhava uvAca tvattaH parAvRtta-dhiyaH sva-kRtaiH karmabhiH prabho uccAvacAn yathA dehAn gRhNanti visRjanti ca tan mamAkhyAhi govinda durvibhAvyam anAtmabhiH na hy etat prAyazo loke vidvAMsaH santi vaJcitAH </center> zrI-uddhavaH uvAca--SrI Uddhava said; tvattaH--from You; parAvRtta--diverted; dhiyaH--whose minds; sva-kRtaiH--done by them; karmabhiH--by the fruitive activities; prabho--O supreme master; ucca-avacAn--higher and lower; yathA--in which way; dehAn--material bodies; gRhNanti--they accept; visRjanti--give up; ca--and; tat--that; mama--to me; AkhyAhi--please explain; govinda--O Govinda; durvibhAvyam--impossible to understand; anAtmabhiH--by those who are not intelligent; na--not; hi--indeed; etat--about this; prAyazaH--for the most part; loke--in this world; vidvAMsaH--knowledgeable; santi--they are; vaJcitAH--who are cheated (by material illusion). SrI Uddhava said: O supreme master, the intelligence of those dedicated to fruitive activities is certainly deviated from You. Please explain to me how such persons accept superior and inferior bodies by their materialistic activities and then give up such bodies. O Govinda, this topic is very difficult for foolish persons to understand. Being cheated by illusion in this world, they generally do not become aware of these facts. No one can be considered intelligent without understanding the science of God, which includes a description of the negative results of those who have forgotten their eternal relationship with Him. There are many so-called wise men in the world, but although considering themselves to be most intelligent, they generally do not surrender to the supreme intelligence of the Lord. Thus they concoct varieties of philosophies according to their positions within the modes of nature. However, one cannot escape the influence of material nature through philosophy generated from that same illusory nature. Liberation is achieved by perfect knowledge coming from the spiritual platform, the kingdom of God. By faithfully hearing from Lord KRSNa and His authorized representatives one can easily achieve liberation and go back home, back to Godhead. <center> zrI-bhagavAn uvAca manaH karma-mayaM NRRNAm indriyaiH paJcabhir yutam lokAl lokaM prayAty anya AtmA tad anuvartate </center> zrI-bhagavAn uvAca--the Supreme Personality of Godhead said; manaH--the mind; karma-mayam--shaped by fruitive work; nRRNAm--of persons; indriyaiH--along with the senses; paJcabhiH--five; yutam--conjoined; lokAt--from one world; lokam--to another world; prayAti--travels; anyaH--separate; AtmA--the soul; tat--that mind; anuvartate--follows. Lord KRSNa said: The material mind of men is shaped by the reactions of fruitive work. Along with the five senses, it travels from one material body to another. The spirit soul, although different from this mind, follows it. <center> dhyAyan mano 'nu viSayAn dRSTAn vAnuzrutAn atha udyat sIdat karma-tantraM smRtis tad anu zAmyati </center> dhyAyat--meditating; manaH--the mind; anu--regularly; viSayAn--on the sense objects; dRSTAn--seen; vA--or; anuzrutAn--heard from Vedic authority; atha--subsequently; udyat--rising; sIdat--dissolving; karma-tantram--bound to the reactions of fruitive work; smRtiH--remembrance; tat anu--after that; zAmyati--is destroyed. The mind, bound to the reactions of fruitive work, always meditates on the objects of the senses, both those that are seen in this world and those that are heard about from Vedic authority. Consequently, the mind appears to come into being and to suffer annihilation along with its objects of perception, and thus its ability to distinguish past and future is lost. One may ask how the subtle body, or mind, gives up its connection with one physical body and enters another. Such entering and leaving of physical bodies is called birth and death by conditioned souls. One utilizes his present senses to meditate on the visible objects of this world--beautiful women, palatial estates, and so on--and similarly one daydreams about the heavenly planets described in the Vedas. As death occurs, the mind is pulled away from the objects of its immediate experience and enters another body to experience a new set of sense objects. As the mind undergoes total reorientation there is the apparent loss of one's previous mentality and creation of a new mind, though actually the same mind is experiencing, but in a different way. The conditioned soul is overwhelmed by the constant flow of material experience consisting of direct perception and abstract contemplation of the objects of this world. One thereby loses his transcendental memory of his relationship with God. As soon as one identifies with this world he forgets his eternal identity and surrenders to the false ego created by mAyA. <center> viSayAbhinivezena nAtmAnaM yat smaret punaH jantor vai kasyacid dhetor mRtyur atyanta-vismRtiH </center> viSaya--in (new) objects of perception; abhinivezena--because of absorption; na--not; AtmAnam--his previous self; yat--the situation in which; smaret--remembers; punaH--any more; jantoH--of the living entity; vai--indeed; kasyacit hetoH--for any reason or other; mRtyuH--known as death; atyanta--total; vismRtiH--forgetfulness. <h2>When the living entity passes from the present body to the next body, which is created by his own karma, he becomes absorbed in the pleasurable and painful sensations of the new body and completely forgets the experience of the previous body. This total forgetfulness of one's previous material identity, which comes about for one reason or another, is called death.</h2> Depending on one's karma, or fruitive activities, one may achieve a beautiful, wealthy or powerful body or be degraded to an abominable condition of life. Taking birth in heaven or in hell, the living entity learns to completely identify his ego with the new body and thus becomes absorbed in the pleasure, fear, opulence or suffering of the new body, completely forgetting the experiences of the previous body. Death occurs when the specific karma allotted to a physical body is finished. Since that particular body's karma is used up, it can no longer act upon one's mind; in that way one forgets the previous body . The new body is created by nature so that one can experience the karma currently in effect. Consequently one's entire consciousness becomes absorbed in one's current body in order that one can fully experience the results of his previous activities. Because the living entity falsely identifies himself as the body, bodily death is experienced as death of the soul. Actually, however, the soul is eternal and is never subject to creation or annihilation. This analytic knowledge of self-realization is easily understood in KRSNa consciousness. <center> janma tv AtmatayA puMsaH sarva-bhAvena bhUri-da viSaya-svIkRtiM prAhur yathA svapna-manorathaH </center> janma--birth; tu--and; AtmatayA--by identification with oneself; puMsaH--of a person; sarva-bhAvena--completely; bhUri-da--O most charitable Uddhava; viSaya--of the body; svI-kRtim--the acceptance; prAhuH--is called; yathA--just as; svapna--a dream; manaH-rathaH--or a mental fantasy. O most charitable Uddhava, what is called birth is simply a person's total identification with a new body. One accepts the new body just as one completely accepts the experience of a dream or a fantasy as reality. Identification with one's material body surpasses the mere affection and attachment one feels for the bodies of relatives or friends. The word sarva-bhAvena here shows that one totally accepts the material body to be oneself, just as one completely accepts the experience of a dream as real. Mere imagination without practical action is called a daydream; the mental concoction that occurs in a sleeping state is called a dream. Our identification with our own body and our blind acceptance of bodily relationships as permanent constitute a prolonged form of dreaming or fantasy in which one imagines oneself to be separate from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The term birth, therefore, does not refer to the generation of a new entity but to the blind acceptance by the spirit soul of a new material body. <center> svapnaM manorathaM cetthaM prAktanaM na smaraty asau tatra pUrvam ivAtmAnam apUrvam cAnupazyati </center> svapnam--a dream; manaH-ratham--a daydream; ca--and; ittham--thus; prAktanam--previous; na smarati--does not remember; asau--he; tatra--in that (present body); pUrvam--the previous; iva--as if; AtmAnam--himself; apUrvam--having no past; ca--and; anupazyati--he views. <h2>Just as a person experiencing a dream or daydream does not remember his previous dreams or daydreams, a person situated in his present body, although having existed prior to it, thinks that he has only recently come into being.</h2> <B>The objection may be raised that sometimes when experiencing a dream one actually remembers a previous dream. SrIla VizvanAtha CakravartI ThAkura replies that by the mystic power of jAti-smara one can remember one's previous body, and as is well known, "The exception establishes the rule." Normally, conditioned souls do not perceive their past existence; they think, "I am six years old" or "I am thirty years old," and "previous to this birth I did not exist." In such material ignorance one cannot understand the actual situation of the soul.</b> <center> indriyAyana-sRSTyedaM trai-vidhyaM bhAti vastuni bahir-antar-bhidA-hetur jano 'saj-jana-kRd yathA </center> indriya-ayana--by the resting place of the senses (the mind); sRSTyA--because of the creation (of identification with a new body); idam--this; trai-vidhyam--threefold variety (of high, middle and low class); bhAti--appears; vastuni--in the reality (the soul); bahiH--external; antaH--and internal; bhidA--of the differences; hetuH--the cause; janaH--a person; asat-jana--of a bad person; kRt--the progenitor; yathA--as. Because the mind, which is the resting place of the senses, has created the identification with a new body, the threefold material variety of high, middle and low class appears as if present within the reality of the soul. Thus the self creates external and internal duality, just as a man might give birth to a bad son. The wealth, beauty, strength, intelligence, fame and detachment of different bodies are considered to be excellent, normal or inferior according to the material situation. The spirit soul acquires a particular body and thus judges himself and others to be high, middle or low class according to their material situation. Actually, the eternal soul exists beyond material duality but falsely mistakes the material situation to be his own. The words asaj-jana-kRd yathA are significant. A father may by nature be peaceful, but because his bad son gets into trouble the father is forced to defend his son and consider his son's enemies to be enemies of the entire family. Thus the bad son implicates the father in troublesome conflicts. Similarly, the spirit soul has no intrinsic problems, but by creating a false identification with the material body the soul becomes involved in the happiness and distress of the body. With this verse the Lord summarizes His discussion of the difference between the body and the soul. <center> nityadA hy aGga bhUtAni bhavanti na bhavanti ca kAlenAlakSya-vegena sUkSmatvAt tan na dRzyate </center> nityadA--constantly; hi--indeed; aGga--My dear Uddhava; bhUtAni--created bodies; bhavanti--come into being; na bhavanti--go out of being; ca--and; kAlena--by time; alakSya--imperceptible; vegena--whose speed; sUkSmatvAt--because of being very subtle; tat--that; na dRzyate--is not seen. My dear Uddhava, material bodies are constantly undergoing creation and destruction by the force of time, whose swiftness is imperceptible. But because of the subtle nature of time, no one sees this. <center> yathArciSAM srotasAM ca phalAnAM vA vanaspateH tathaiva sarva-bhUtAnAM vayo-'vasthAdayaH kRtAH </center> yathA--as; arciSAm--of the flames of a candle; srotasAm--of the currents of a river; ca--and; phalAnAm--of fruits; vA--or; vanaspateH--of a tree; tathA--thus; eva--certainly; sarva-bhUtAnAm--of all material bodies; vayaH--of different ages; avasthA--situations; AdayaH--and so on; kRtAH--are created. The different stages of transformation of all material bodies occur just like those of the flame of a candle, the current of a river, or the fruits of a tree. The wavering flame of a candle sometimes waxes brightly and again becomes weak. Finally it vanishes altogether. The waves of a flowing river rise and fall, creating innumerable shapes and patterns. The fruits of a tree gradually take birth, grow, ripen, sweeten and eventually rot and die. Similarly, one can easily understand that one's own body is undergoing constant transformation, and that the body is certainly subject to old age, disease and death. At different times of life the body exhibits degrees of sexual potency, physical strength, desire, wisdom and so on. As the body grows old, physical strength diminishes, but one's knowledge may increase even as the body undergoes such transformation. Material birth and death occur within the realm of segmented time. The birth, creation or production of a material object immediately connects it with a segmented sequence of subtle time within the material world. Thus its destruction or death is inevitable. The irresistible force of time moves so subtly that only the most intelligent can perceive it. Just as the candle flame gradually diminishes, as the flowing currents move within the river or as fruits gradually ripen on a tree, the material body is steadily moving toward inevitable death. The temporary body should therefore never be confused with the eternal, unchanging spirit soul. <center> so 'yaM dIpo 'rciSAM yadvat srotasAM tad idaM jalam so 'yaM pumAn iti nRNAM mRSA gIr dhIr mRSAyuSAm </center> saH--this; ayam--the same; dIpaH--light; arciSAm--of the radiation of a lamp; yadvat--just as; srotasAm--of the currents flowing in a river; tat--that; idam--the same; jalam--water; saH--this; ayam--the same; pumAn--person; iti--thus; nRNAm--of men; mRSA--false; gIH--statement; dhIH--thought; mRSA-AyuSAm--of those who are wasting their life. Although the illumination of a lamp consists of innumerable rays of light undergoing constant creation, transformation and destruction, a person with illusory intelligence who sees the light for a moment will speak falsely, saying, "This is the light of the lamp." As one observes a flowing river, ever-new water passes by and goes far away, yet a foolish person, observing one point in the river, falsely states, "This is the water of the river." Similarly, although the material body of a human being is constantly undergoing transformation, those who are simply wasting their lives falsely think and say that each particular stage of the body is the person's real identity Although one may say, "This is the light of the lamp," there are innumerable rays of light being created, transformed and destroyed at every moment; and although one may speak of the water of the river, there is an ever-new supply of different water molecules passing by. Similarly, when one meets a young child, one accepts that particular transitory phase of the body as the actual identity of the person, considering him to be a child. One also considers an old body to be an old person. In fact, however, the material body of a human being, just like the waves of a river or the radiation of a lamp, is merely a transformation of the three modes of material nature, the potency of the Supreme Lord. The real identity of a person is spirit soul, part and parcel of Lord KRSNa, but as Lord KRSNa proves in this verse, a conditioned soul is incapable of observing or understanding the subtle movements of time. With the gross vision of material consciousness one cannot ascertain the subtle segments of material manifestation, which are impelled by the Lord Himself as time. The word mRSAyuSAm in this verse indicates those who are uselessly wasting their time in ignorance without understanding the instructions of the Lord. Such persons gullibly accept any particular phase of the body to be the actual identity of the spirit soul within the body. Because the spirit soul is not subject to material transformation, when he engages himself in the eternal variegated pleasure of KRSNa consciousness, loving service to the Supreme Lord, he will experience no further ignorance and suffering. <center> mA svasya karma-bIjena jAyate so 'py ayaM pumAn mriyate vAmaro bhrAntyA yathAgnir dAru-saMyutaH </center> mA--does not; svasya--of the self; karma-bIjena--by the seed of his activities; jAyate--take birth; saH--he; api--indeed; ayam--this; pumAn--personality; mriyate--dies; vA--or; amaraH--immortal; bhrAntyA--because of illusion; yathA--as; agniH--fire; dAru--with wood; saMyutaH--joined. A person does not actually take birth out of the seed of past activities, nor, being immortal, does he die. By illusion the living being appears to be born and to die, just as fire in connection with firewood appears to begin and then cease to exist. The element fire exists perpetually within the material creation, but in connection with a particular piece of wood fire apparently comes into existence and ceases to exist. Similarly, the living entity is eternal, but in connection with a particular body apparently takes birth and dies. The reactions of karma thus impose an illusory suffering or enjoyment upon the living entity, but they do not cause the entity himself to change his eternal nature. In other words, karma represents a cycle of illusion in which each illusory activity produces another. KRSNa consciousness stops this cycle of karma by engaging the living being in spiritual activities in the loving service of the Lord. By such KRSNa consciousness one can escape the illusory chain of fruitive reactions. <center> niSeka-garbha-janmAni bAlya-kaumAra-yauvanam vayo-madhyaM jarA mRtyur ity avasthAs tanor nava </center> niSeka--impregnation; garbha--gestation; janmAni--and birth; bAlya--infancy; kaumAra--childhood; yauvanam--and youth; vayaH-madhyam--middle age; jarA--old age; mRtyuH--death; iti--thus; avasthAH--ages; tanoH--of the body; nava--nine. Impregnation, gestation, birth, infancy, childhood, youth, middle age, old age and death are the nine ages of the body. <center> etA manoratha-mayIr hAnyasyoccAvacAs tanUH guNa-saGgAd upAdatte kvacit kazcij jahAti ca </center> etAH--these; manaH-rathaH-mayIH--achieved by meditation of the mind; ha--certainly; anyasya--of the body (who is separate from the self); ucca--greater; avacAH--and lesser; tanUH--bodily conditions; guNa-saGgAt--because of associating with the modes of nature; upAdatte--he accepts; kvacit--sometimes; kazcit--someone; jahAti--gives up; ca--and. Although the material body is different from the self, because of the ignorance due to material association one falsely identifies oneself with the superior and inferior bodily conditions. Sometimes a fortunate person is able to give up such mental concoction. One who has received the special mercy of the Supreme Lord is able to give up the mental concoction of bodily identification. Thus there is always a chance of escaping the cycle of birth and death. <center> AtmanaH pitR-putrAbhyAm anumeyau bhavApyayau na bhavApyaya-vastUnAm abhijJo dvaya-lakSaNaH </center> AtmanaH--one's own; pitR--from the father or ancestors; putrAbhyAm--and the son; anumeyau--can be surmised; bhava--birth; apyayau--and death; na--is no longer; bhava-apyaya-vastUnAm--of all that is subject to generation and destruction; abhijJaH--one who is in proper knowledge; dvaya--by these dualities; lakSaNaH--characterized. By the death of one's father or grandfather one can surmise one's own death, and by the birth of one's son one can understand the condition of one's own birth. A person who thus realistically understands the creation and destruction of material bodies is no longer subject to these dualities. The Lord has described the nine stages of the material body, beginning with impregnation, gestation and birth. One may argue that a living entity cannot remember his presence in the mother's womb nor his birth and early infancy. The Lord therefore states here that one can experience these phases of bodily existence by studying one's own child. Similarly, although one may hope to live forever, by experiencing the death of one's father, grandfather or great-grandfather, one has definite proof that the material body will die. A sober person, knowing the soul to be eternal, therefore gives up false identification with the temporary, unreliable body and takes shelter of the devotional service of the Lord. By this process one can escape the artificial imposition of birth and death. <center> taror bIja-vipAkAbhyAM yo vidvAJ janma-saMyamau taror vilakSaNo draSTA evaM draSTA tanoH pRthak </center> taroH--of a tree; bIja--(birth from) its seed; vipAkAbhyAm--(destruction subsequent to) maturity; yaH--one who; vidvAn--in knowledge; janma--of birth; saMyamau--and death; taroH--from the tree; vilakSaNaH--distinct; draSTA--the witness; evam--in the same way; draSTA--the witness; tanoH--of the material body; pRThak--is separate. One who observes the birth of a tree from its seed and the ultimate death of the tree after maturity certainly remains a distinct observer separate from the tree. In the same way, the witness of the birth and death of the material body remains separate from it. As a reference to trees, vipAka indicates the final transformation called death. In reference to other types of plants such as rice, vipAka indicates the stage of maturity, in which death also occurs. Thus by common observation one can understand the actual position of one's material body and one's own position as the transcendental observer. <center> prakRter evam AtmAnam avivicyAbudhaH pumAn tattvena sparza-sammUDhaH saMsAraM pratipadyate </center> prakRteH--from material nature; evam--in this way; AtmAnam--the self; avivicya--failing to distinguish; abudhaH--the unintelligent; pumAn--person; tattvena--because of thinking (material things) to be real; sparza--by material contact; sammUDhaH--completely bewildered; saMsAram--the cycle of material existence; pratipadyate--attains. An unintelligent man, failing to distinguish himself from material nature, thinks nature to be real. By contact with it he becomes completely bewildered and enters into the cycle of material existence. A similar verse is found in SrImad-BhAgavatam (1.7.5): yayA sammohito jIva AtmAnaM tri-guNAtmakam paro 'pi manute 'narthaM tat-kRtaM cAbhipadyate "Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks of himself as a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries." <center> sattva-saGgAd RSIn devAn rajasAsura-mAnuSAn tamasA bhUta-tiryaktvaM bhrAmito yAti karmabhiH </center> sattva-saGgAt--by association with the mode of goodness; RSIn--to the sages; devAn--to the demigods; rajasA--by the mode of passion; asura--to the demons; mAnuSAn--and to human beings; tamasA--by the mode of ignorance; bhUta--to the ghostly spirits; tiryaktvam--or the animal kingdom; bhrAmitaH--made to wander; yAti--he goes; karmabhiH--because of his fruitive activities. Made to wander because of his fruitive work, the conditioned soul, by contact with the mode of goodness, takes birth among the sages or demigods. By contact with the mode of passion he becomes a demon or human being, and by association with the mode of ignorance he takes birth as a ghost or in the animal kingdom. The word tiryaktvam means "the status of an animal," which includes all lower forms of life, such as beasts, birds, insects, fish and plants. <center> nRtyato gAyataH pazyan yathaivAnukaroti tAn evaM buddhi-guNAn pazyann anIho ‘py anukAryate </center> nRtyataH--persons who are dancing; gAyataH--and singing; pazyan--observing; yathA--just as; eva--indeed; anukaroti--imitates; tAn--them; evam--thus; buddhi--of the material intelligence; guNAn--the acquired qualities; pazyan--seeing; anIhaH--although not himself engaged in activity; api--nevertheless; anukAryate--is made to imitate. Just as one may imitate persons whom one sees dancing and singing, similarly the soul, although never the doer of material activities, becomes captivated by material intelligence and is thus forced to imitate its qualities. Sometimes people are captivated by professional singers and dancers and imitate within their minds the musical rhythms and melodies of the performers along with their romantic, humorous or heroic emotions. People sing songs heard on the radio and imitate dances and dramatic performances seen on television or in movies and theaters, entering into the emotions and art of the performer. The conditioned soul is similarly captivated by the concoctions of the material mind and intelligence, which convince him that he can become the enjoyer of the material world. Although different from the material body and never the actual performer of its activities, the conditioned soul is induced to engage his body in material activities, which entangle him in the cycle of birth and death. One should not accept the illicit propositions of material intelligence, but rather should engage himself fully in the service of the Lord in KRSNa consciousness.

Why not look for some? Maybe an internet search for 'karma'?

Sri Brahma-Samhita 5.23: <center> saJjAto bhagavac-chaktyA tat-kAlaM kila coditaH sisRkSAyAM matiM cakre pUrva-<B>saMskAra</b>-saMskRtaH dadarza kevalaM dhvAntaM nAnyat kim api sarvataH </center> saJjAtaH--on being born; bhagavat-zaktyA--by the divine potency; tat-kAlam--at that time; kila--indeed; coditaH--being guided; sisRkSAyAm--to the act of creation; matim--his mind; cakre--turned; pUrva-saMskAra-saMskRtaH --under the impulse of previous impressions; dadarza--he saw; kevalam--only; dhvAntam--darkness; na--not; anyat--else; kim api--anything; sarvataH--in every direction. On coming out of the lotus, BrahmA, being guided by the divine potency tuned his mind to the act of creation under the impulse of previous impressions. But he could see nothing but darkness in every direction. PURPORT BrahmA's impulse for creation arises solely from his previous impressions. All jIvas get their nature conformably to their impressions of previous births and accordingly their activity can have a beginning. It is called "the unseen" or the result of one's previous deeds. His natural impulse is formed according to the nature of the deeds done by him in the previous kalpa. Some of the eligible jIvas also attain to the office of BrahmA in this way.

Well, first a little internet etiquette: capitalizing words is considered shouting on the internet. That perhaps makes you sound more angry than you are. However, even without the caps, you still sound angry and we all know from Bhagavad-gita that after attachment leads to lust then anger, the result is bewilderment of the senses and finally loss of intelligence. Some credibl answers were presented but you could not understand. I suggest that if you can gain some detachment and let go of the anger you may be able to understand what has been said from a higher vantage point. I think that what you are learning here is humility - that God's way of purifying our relationship with Him is not quite as simple, as black and white as our little minds want it to be. God and His kindness are simply beyond our understanding as finite creatures. What have the people learned from their tragedies? Humility? Surrender? Hatred of God? It's all much more complicated than our clever minds would like to think. Spread out over billions of lifetimes, who can say what effect our relative ups and downs will have? Scripture encourages us to see everything as God's mercy. When I stub my toe I immediately stop and center on Krsna knowing that something is wrong. The more attached or wrong I am, the more it takes to get my attention and snap me out of my foolishness. As far as remembering previous lives' sins, I don't doubt that in our dreams we are again tested with previous challenges that we failed before. All these impressions from billions of lives make up our character. Zillions of stored impressions in our subtle bodies form the Gestalt of our ahankara identity. Whether or not we are conscious of why or not, some kids will be terrors and others angels. It's just where they are, and new impressions in this life will further massage their character toward perfection. We see the sum total of our impressions, not each number that forms the total. That sum total is our false-ego. More numbers will be added to it again in this life, making a new sum total character for the next life. Or if we can somehow add infinity to that sum total, the ahankara figure will become zero, revealing our fortune in the Kingdom of God thereby requiring no further massaging of our total false character. As far as seeing previous mistakes: firstly, I'm not sure we could live with ourselves if we could see some of our past evils; and secondly, I'm not sure we ourselves are capable of doing a better job than Krsna of fixing the problems. Our meddling in His plan might well just create unnecessary chaos and more problems. None of this will help you. You can only know what is good for the living entity and help your friends follow the path of bhakti. All you can say is "I don't know why we're here, but I know where we must go". That is being their best friend. It's time to move on to tears of joy.

But aren't the departed reincarnated in another body whether human or animal on this planet or another? Was it the body you loved or the soul? If it was the soul and if they too had a deep attachment to you, then likely it has been arranged that they can remain around you somehow. That is, they say we get a body that matches our desires at the time of death. Go to the Kingdom of God in this life, and they can too. There you can associate forever. There is a nice discussion of this in this movie presentation here in the forums: http://www.indiadivine.org/support/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=4 I hope you can find some comfort there.

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/1/1/en http://vedabase.net/sb/12/13/19/en

Bhagavad-gita 18.74 <center> saJjaya uvAca ity ahaM vAsudevasya pArthasya ca mahAtmanaH saMvAdam imam azrauSam adbhutaM roma-harSaNam </center> saJjayaH uvAca--SaJjaya said; iti--thus; aham--I; vAsudevasya--of KRSNa; pArthasya--and Arjuna; ca--also; mahA-AtmanaH--of the great soul; saMvAdam--discussion; imam--this; azrauSam--have heard; adbhutam--wonderful; roma-harSaNam--making the hair stand on end. SaJjaya said: Thus have I heard the conversation of two great souls, KRSNa and Arjuna. And so wonderful is that message that my hair is standing on end. Or maybe this one has something short and memorable - Bhagavad-gita 18.70: <center> adhyeSyate ca ya imaM dharmyaM saMvAdam AvayoH jJAna-yajJena tenAham iSTaH syAm iti me matiH </center> adhyeSyate--will study; ca--also; yaH--he who; imam--this; dharmyam--sacred; saMvAdam--conversation; AvayoH--of ours; jJAna--of knowledge; yajJena--by the sacrifice; tena--by him; aham--I; iSTaH--worshiped; syAm--shall be; iti--thus; me--My; matiH--opinion. And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation of ours worships Me by his intelligence. So wonderrfully connected with both the source and the object of knowledge; iti me matih: <center> <h1> jJAna-yajJena tenAham iSTaH syAm </h1> </center>

Srimad-Bhagavatam 12.3.52<blockquote>kRte yad dhyAyato viSNuM tretAyAM yajato makhaiH dvApare paricaryAyAM kalau tad dhari-kIrtanAt <B>Whatever result was obtained in Satya-yuga by meditating on ViSNu, in TretA-yuga by performing sacrifices, and in DvApara-yuga by serving the Lord's lotus feet can be obtained in Kali-yuga simply by chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra. </b> PURPORT A similar verse is found in the ViSNu PurANa (6.2.17), and also in the Padma PurANa (Uttara-khaNDa 72.25) and the BRhan-nAradIya PurANa (38.97): dhyAyan kRte yajan yajJais tretAyAM dvApare 'rcayan yad Apnoti tad Apnoti kalau saGkIrtya kezavam "Whatever is achieved by meditation in Satya-yuga, by the performance of sacrifice in TretA-yuga, and by the worship of Lord KRSNa's lotus feet in DvApara-yuga is obtained in the age of Kali simply by glorifying the name of Lord Kezava." SrIla JIva GosvAmI has further quoted from the Brahma-vaivarta PurANa concerning the degraded condition of people in Kali-yuga: ataH kalau tapo-yoga- vidyA-yajJAdikAH kriyAH sAGgA bhavanti na kRtAH kuzalair api dehibhiH "Thus in the age of Kali the practices of austerity, yoga meditation, Deity worship, sacrifice and so on, along with their various subsidiary functions, are not properly carried out, even by the most expert embodied souls. SrIla JIva GosvAmI has also cited the CAturmAsya-mAhAtmya of the Skanda PurANa concerning the necessity of chanting Hare KRSNa in this age: tathA caivottamaM loke tapaH zrI-hari-kIrtanam kalau yuge vizeSeNa viSNu-prItyai samAcaret "In this way the most perfect penance to be executed in this world is the chanting of the name of Lord SrI Hari. Especially in the age of Kali, one can satisfy the Supreme Lord ViSNu by performing saGkIrtana.'' In conclusion, massive propaganda should be made all over the world to induce people to chant the Hare KRSNa mantra, by which human society can be rescued from the dangerous ocean of the age of Kali.</blockquote>

" You should have gave it to me." You're too lazy to have my money.

When I had extra cash, I donated five thousand dollars to devotees years back to establish an internet presence. They're gone and so is my money. I certainly could use that money now. I feel violated just like when that scoundrel 'devotee' tried to 'change me up' at O'Hare in the seventies, like I was some kind of idiot to be robbed.

The back cover reveals what a cheat the author is.

<img src=http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies./images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/star_wars/alec_guinness/epiv.jpg> <img src=http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies./images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/star_wars__episode_iii__revenge_of_the_sith/hayden_christensen/wars.jpg> <img src=http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies./images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/star_wars__episode_iii__revenge_of_the_sith/ian_mcdiarmid/wars2.jpg>

And how long would it take anybody, even a priest, to earn those few hundred dollars? There are jobs anyone can do. Of course we say that we want to give the karmis the mercy of donating, but is that true? Why not: we work a little, and the karmis get some time to explore religion? A little karma yoga never hurt anyone, but the problem is attachment to the mode of goodness. Isn't it. Call it padayatra and go out with the people and dig a ditch shoulder-to-shoulder. They might start appreciating the silver-spoon devotees more that way.

From http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html Misconception 7 Islam tolerates the killing of innocents because: Muslims can be terrorists Muslims engage in `holy wars' (jihad) Islam spread by the sword it has a harsh and cruel judicial system This misconception is one of the most widely held misconceptions about Islam today. And yet in the Qur'an, the Creator unambiguously states (translation), [17:33] Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand retaliation or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life, for he is helped (by the Law) Based on this verse, it is Islamically unlawful to murder anyone who is innocent of certain crimes. It is well to remember at this point the distinction made above between Qur'an and Sunnah, and the Muslims: only the Qur'an and Sunnah are guaranteed to be in accordance with what the Creator desires, whereas the Muslims may possibly deviate. Hence, if any Muslim kills an innocent person, that Muslim has committed a grave sin, and certainly the action cannot be claimed to have been done "in the name of Islam." It should be clear, then, that "Muslim terrorist" is almost an oxymoron: by killing innocent people, a Muslim is commiting an awesome sin, and Allah is Justice personified. This phrase is offensive and demeaning of Islam, and it should be avoided. It is hoped that as the general level of public awareness and understanding of Islam increases, people will keep "terrorism" and "Islam" separate from each other, not to be used in the same phrase. Another reason advanced in support of the misconception is that the Creator has imposed `jihad' on us. The term "holy war" is from the time of the Crusades and originated in Europe as a rallying cry against the Muslims in Jerusalem. Jihad is an Arabic word meaning struggle, but in the context of many verses in the Qur'an, it carries the meaning of military struggle, or war. Allah gradually introduced the obligation of military struggle to the Muslim community at the time of the Messenger (saas). The first verse ever revealed in that connection is as follows (translation), [22:39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; This verse lays down the precondition for all war in Islam: there must exist certain oppressive conditions on the people. The Creator unequivocally orders us to fight oppression and persecution, even at the expense of bloodshed as the following verse shows (translation), [2:190-192] And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. As one might imagine, the method of military struggle has been clearly and extensively defined in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Since this subject is a huge one, we simply summarize part of it by noting that it is unlawful to kill women, children, the infirm, the old, and the innocent. From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find: [4:52:257] Narrated 'Abdullah: During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children. A related misconception to jihad is often propagated by Muslims who say that "Jihad is only for self-defense of physical borders." The Qur'an and Sunnah refute this notion categorically. As the verses cited above show, jihad is obligatory wherever there is injustice, and Muslims need not acknowledge imaginary lines around the earth when it comes to upholding this obligation. The Messenger of Allah (saas) has also commented on this extensively in the Sunnah. From the study of the Sunnah called Sahih Bukhari, we find that, [4:52:65] Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." Hence, the Creator obligates us to fight wherever people are being grossly deprived of freely hearing or practicing the Message of Allah as contained in the Qur'an and Sunnah. Sayyed Qutb, a famous Muslim scholar eloquently discusses the notion of jihad and self-defense in his book Milestones, "If we insist on calling Islamic jihad a defensive movement, then we must change the meaning of the word `defense' and mean by it `defense of man' against all those elements which limit his freedom. These elements take the form of beliefs and concepts, as well as of political systems, based on economic, racial, or class distinction." A third reason often cited for the misconception about Islam which says that this way of life tolerates the killing of innocents is that the judicial system of Islam is unnecessarily harsh. This reason is weak in two respects. First, it presupposes that human beings are more just and more merciful than the Creator, and therefore we can change the law. Second, it is often based on gross oversimplifications of Islamic law, such as saying "all thieves get their hands cut off." The Qur'an and Sunnah make it clear that the law of retaliation (or equality) governs us for murder and physical injury, but forgiveness is better as the following verses from the Qur'an show (translation), [2:178] O you who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement. [42:40-43] The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loves not those who do wrong. But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame. The blame is only against those who oppress men and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a grievous penalty. And whoever is patient and forgiving, these most surely are actions due to courage. The Creator ordained the law of retaliation on us knowing full well that we might question it. In many non-Muslim societies today, there are ongoing debates about the death penalty. In Islam, this discussion is moot: the Creator has decided the matter for us. He has however given us an interesting verse in the Qur'an which advises to consider the matter carefully if we want to understand it (translation follows), [2:179] And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O people of understanding, that you may guard yourselves. Most people are also unaware of the stringent conditions which must be met for the law of retaliation to be applicable. The Sunnah is full of examples of the Messenger of Allah showing us when the law's preconditions were fulfilled. For example, a thief is only liable to lose his or her hand if the item stolen exceeds a certain value, and if it is proven that the item was taken from its normal resting place. Stealing food is not punishable by the loss of one's hand, and other items are exempt as well. This is just an example of how gingerly the law is applied in Islam. Finally, another reason advanced for this prevalent misconception is that Islam `spread by the sword'. It should be clear by now that we must always distinguish between the Qur'an and Sunnah and the Muslims when it comes to determining what the Creator has asked of us. Allah has stated clearly in the Qur'an (translation), [2:256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever rejects Satan (and what he calls to) and believes in Allah, he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handhold, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing. Hence, it is impossible to accept Islam under duress. Even if misguided Muslims were to try to `force' Islam somehow on others, it would not be accepted by the Creator based on this verse. Historical arguments that try to demonstrate that Muslims did not `convert others by force' are actually secondary to the argument given above. However, it is worth noting that historically, Islam did spread by peaceful means. The Message of the Creator was conveyed to Africa and to southeast Asia by trading Muslims, and today the largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia. The military expeditions that led to the conquest of large swathes of territory in Europe and central Asia were all marked by tolerance of other creeds and faith. Again, it is important to remember that Allah declares it IMPOSSIBLE that Islam can be forced on a person, hence Muslims find it useless to try!

" In fact you look at the word: A-braham. This means going against Brahman." Surely we aren't so stupid? I don't remember any calls for rape in the New Testament.

http://vedabase.net/bg/18/33/en http://vedabase.net/bg/18/34/en http://vedabase.net/bg/18/35/en

We tried to save ya'll, Max, but y'all hated us for it. It was just the true north State against the rest, and the Texas heehaws won. Yeehaw! Keep pushing them cars at 70 up them big monstrous hills!

GaNeza: Some people say that in our philosophy, if we do not wish to slaughter the animals, what about the trees? We are killing the plants. They are also living entities. PrabhupAda: If you compare the animals and the trees as the same, then why not kill yourself, your brother? Why do you distinguish? Why don't you slaughter your own son? Why do you distinguish? GaNeza: He's a relative. PrabhupAda: You discriminate. If you are slaughtering animals and you are comparing that killing of the vegetables and the killing of the animals is the same, then killing your son and killing an animal is also the same. Why do you discriminate? Just kill your own son and eat. ParamahaMsa: He's a human being, though. PrabhupAda: Ah, therefore there is discrimination. Discrimination is the better part of valor. Whom should we kill? It is all right. JIvo jIvasya jIvanam. But there is important. If you eat vegetables there is no crisis, you can go on. It is a fact that an animal is eating another animal. It may be vegetables or animals, but they are disturbing. Therefore it is said, "As it is allotted." You should eat such and such. Not that indiscriminately you can eat everything. If you think killing of an animal and killing a vegetable is the same, then killing of your son and killing of animals or vegetable is the same. Why do you discriminate? What is your answer? GaNeza: So if we discriminate between the animals and the plants, well what about the discrimination between the human beings and the animals? Is it not all right to kill animals and not human beings? PrabhupAda: No. You discriminate actually. You do not kill human beings, but you kill animals. Similarly you discriminate: instead of killing animals, kill vegetables. Importance. Just like this grass. There is enough supply of grass, but you cannot have enough supply of cows. Therefore discrimination is that it is better to live on grass than on animals. Now, still they are eating seventy-five percent other than animals. They are not eating only animals. Why not twenty-five percent more? In the market they are not eating animal. When the animal-eaters I see, they have got a little flesh, surrounded by salad and these peas and so many other things. Why don't you eat only meat? SrutakIrti: Because we require a balanced diet. PrabhupAda: No, you cannot supply. If everyone eats meat only, then one day all animals will be finished. ParamahaMsa: But we want to have a balanced diet with meat, and vegetables and fruit. PrabhupAda: That balance of diet can be done by grains and vegetables. Why should we kill animals? We know that, the balance can be done. You learn from us that balanced food can be done. Amogha: But in the Bible it says that God gave animals to the man. PrabhupAda: For protection. Not for eating. Rascals. Bible does not say that you kill animals. Then Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. His commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." If he allows killing, then why does he say, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then you prove that Jesus Christ is a hypocrite. Are you following a hypocrite? Nonsense. ParamahaMsa: So we understand. We will stop eating meat, but we can still eat fish and eggs. Because there are plenty of fish and plenty of eggs. PrabhupAda: That is also better than killing animals. Amogha: Jesus also gave fish to the people in one part of the Bible. PrabhupAda: When there is no other food, you have to take anything. That is another thing. But when there are other foods, grains and vegetables, why should you eat anything? You have to eat and live. So if you can eat and live innocently, why should you kill? Then, Christ says "Thou shall not kill." Was he a fool, rascal, that he advised "Thou shall not kill"? He had no idea? SrutakIrti: But he meant kill other people. PrabhupAda: No. That is your interpretation, rascal's interpretation. Amogha: All the priests say that. PrabhupAda: He says clearly, "Thou shall not kill." And when I cut grass, it is not called killing. You should know dictionary. Because you are uneducated, you do not know the meaning of the dictionary. SrutakIrti: But I'm just a common Christian. I'm following my authority. They say it's all right. The Pope. ParamahaMsa: He's the supreme authority. The Pope is eating meat. PrabhupAda: That means from the supreme down to the rascal everyone is rascal. That proves it, that all of you are a set of rascaldom. ParamahaMsa: But the government doesn't charge anyone with crime for killing an animal. PrabhupAda: Government means they are full of rascals. Government by the people. So you are all rascals, the government is also rascal. Your democracy means government by the people for the people. So all the people are rascals, beginning from the Pope down to the common man. Therefore the government is rascal. ParamahaMsa: But not all of us are Christians. Some of us are <B>Muslims</B>, and in the Koran <B>Mohammed</B> says that eating meat is all right. In fact it is required to be a good Muslim, to eat meat. PrabhupAda: They spoke in the desert. What will they eat? But you are not in the desert. Meat-eating is a crude form of eating when people are uncivilized. When there is no other food, you cannot produce. But when you are civilized, when you learn how to produce other foods, why would you eat meat? How are you civilized? Amogha: SrIla PrabhupAda, in Sikhism there was Guru Nanak and Guru Granth Sahib. Is that actually a real scripture, and was Guru Nanak actually a devotee? Or is that not correct? PrabhupAda: They created a system of religion which can include Hindus and Muslim. That was at the time needed. But that is not a good system of religion. ParamahaMsa: You mean a compromise between the two. PrabhupAda: Compromise, yes. There was too much strain between Hindus and <B>Muslims</B>, so he wanted to make a compromise. Actually there was only Vedic culture all over the world. As the things deteriorated, new systems of religion came in. Either the Sikh religion or the Christian or this religion, <B>Muslim </B>religion. They are, what is called, deformed type of religion. Religion is that sarva-dharmAn parityajya mAm ekaM [bg. 18.66]. That is religion. These are later on deformed. GaNeza: So is that according to time, place and circumstance we must discriminate in our eating? PrabhupAda: What? GaNeza: According to time, place and circumstance we must discriminate whether to eat meat, whether to eat the vegetables? PrabhupAda: Yes, you must eat. But when good things are available, why should you eat bad things? You must be pacified. Amogha: Was there a story? The Hindus always tell this story about I think VizvAmitra RSi eating a dog or something? PrabhupAda: Sometimes. There was no food. Amogha: They like that story. What about in the Buddhist philosophy; we understand that... PrabhupAda: No killing. ParamahaMsa: ...in the higher stage... PrabhupAda: No killing. Amogha: Yes, but the Buddhist monks, when they beg, they simply accept whatever alms they receive, and if they receive meat then they'll eat that, and if they receive some raw grains then they eat that. Actually that is a higher state of renunciation. ParamahaMsa: And if they receive some cigarettes they'll smoke them. Amogha: Yes, and if they receive--they'll take anything, they are so renounced. So isn't that more spiritual? PrabhupAda: They have no idea what is spiritual. Buddhist religion is not a spiritual. It is material. If you kill me then I feel pain; therefore I shall not kill you. This is. Dr. Copeland: <B>Mohammed</B> says... PrabhupAda: Anyone. <B>Mohammed</B> says something. You have to say, "<B>Mohammed</B> says this." You cannot say, "What <B>Mohammed</B> says, it is not right. What I say it is right." You cannot say that. That is dishonest. You say in your own words. Why should you bring <B>Mohammed</B> or KRSNa or Christ to say your words? Did they come to support your views? Dr. Copeland: No, I don't do that. PrabhupAda: No, you do not do that. You do not do that. You will see Dr. Radhakrishnan says. When this, he is making comment on it, he said, "It is not to KRSNa." KRSNa says, man-manA bhava mad-bhakto mAM namaskuru, and Dr. Radha..., he says "not to KRSNa." How he is misleading people! He is a great scholar, and he says "It is not to KRSNa, to the person." Just see. This dishonesty is going on. What right he has got to say like that? Did He, did He, KRSNa, left His Bhagavad-gItA to be interpreted by a rascal, "Not to KRSNa"? This is rascaldom. You cannot say. You must say what KRSNa says, if you take Bhagavad-gItA. But if you have got a different views, then you write your own book. Present, as many others philosophers are doing. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. That's all right. NAsau munir yasya mataM na bhinnam. You cannot become a big philosopher unless you have got a different views. That is the way. If I don't defy you, then I am not a big philosopher. That is the way. It is going on. So nAsau munir yasya... So if I take the opinion of one muni and another muni, another muni, then where is the real view? Therefore it is said mahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Big personalities, what they have done, we have to follow that. So our principle is that, that we are following Caitanya MahAprabhu, mahAjana, a great personality. Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. MahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH. You follow some mahAjana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaM nihitaM guhAyAM mahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH. So you have to follow one great personality, AcArya. That is also recommended in the BhA... AcAryopAsanam, following the AcArya. So we have got recognized AcArya, just like you said, RAmAnujAcArya, MadhvAcArya, NimbArka, ViSNusvAmI, Caitanya MahAprabhu. Or SaGkarAcArya even. You follow one AcArya, like Christians, they follow Christ, AcArya. The <B>Mohammed</B>ans, they follow AcArya, <B>Mohammed</B>. That is good. You must follow some AcArya. But don't give your opinion. That is our process. EvaM paramparA-prAptam. PrabhupAda: It is... Very simple answer is: when the mother certifies, "He is your father," that's all. You don't have to make research. That is futile. By research, you cannot understand who is your real father. You can understand your real father only by the certificate of your mother. That's all. Therefore our Vedic mantra says that religion and God cannot be manufactured by speculation. AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkena yojayet. Just like this example, father. Father was existing before my birth. So after my birth, with limited knowledge I make research who is my father--you will never find your father. But if you take the certificate of your mother, that is there. Similarly, acintyAH khalu ye bhAvA, things which are beyond our conception, that cannot be established simply by argument, logic, so-called science and philosophy, that is not possible. The same example: by argument, logic, science, philosophy you cannot ascertain who is your father. The only simple method and authorized method is to ask mother, and if she says, "Yes, he is your father..." Similarly, things which are beyond our conception, simply argument will be useless. AcintyAH khalu ye bhAvA na tAMs tarkena yo... Tarka means arguments. In another place it is said, tarka, argument, is futile. TarkaH apratiSThaH: "By argument, you cannot come to the right conclusion." You can argue in a way; I can argue a better way, he can argue in better way. That is not the system. That will not help. Tarko apratiSThaH zrutayo vibhinnAH. If you study scriptures, so in the world there are many varieties of scriptures. There is Bible, there is Bhagavad-gItA, there is Koran, there is so on, so on. So which one is correct? That also you cannot decide. Srutayo vibhinnAH, and nAsau munir yasya mataM na bhinnam. And if you consult philosophers or scientists, every scientist, every philosopher, differs from the other. Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nAsau munir yasya mataM na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahAjano yena gataH sa panthAH: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] "MahAjana, great personalities, recognized AcArya, what they say, you follow." That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority--take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world--you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or RAmAnujAcArya, MadhvAcArya. That is the way. That is the way because these AcAryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or <B>Mohammed</B>, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is KRSNa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. <B>Mohammed</B> says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And KRSNa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you must know what is God and abide by His order. What do you think, Dr. Judah? Dr. Judah: Pardon? PrabhupAda: What do you think this proposition? Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I think you're quite right. I think that it is... Certainly, in our day and age many of us don't really know God. PrabhupAda: Then he is not theologician. He is theosophist. Dr. Judah: We know about God, but we do not know God. I would agree. PrabhupAda: Then that is theosophist. Theosophists, they are thinking there is something superior. But who is that superior, they are searching out. The same thing: a boy, he knows, "I have a father," but "Who is my father? That I do not know." Oh, that, you have to ask your mother. That's all." Alone he cannot understand. So our proposition is that if you do not know God and here is God, KRSNa, why don't you accept Him? You do not know first of all. And if I present, "Here is God," then why don't you accept? What is the answer? We are presenting God, "Here is God." And big, big AcAryas have accepted. RAmAnujAcArya, MadhvAcArya, ViSNusvAmI, Lord Caitanya, in our disciplic succession my Guru MahArAja, and I am preaching, "This is God." I am not presenting a God whimsically. I am presenting a God who is recognized. So why don't you accept? What is the difficulty? Dr. Judah: I suppose one of the difficulties for certainly many in the older generation is that we follow certain patterns of life and the... It is difficult to change. This is the great problem. PrabhupAda: Then you are not serious about God. Then you are not serious. Therefore KRSNa said, sarva-dharmAn parityaja mAm ekaM zaraNaM: "You have to give up." Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhAgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way. PrabhupAda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru." Dr. Patel: It's a fact. PrabhupAda: Yes. Dr. Patel: I mean, that is what it is, what what we take, in fact... PrabhupAda: We do not... Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that. PrabhupAda: Even if we say "<B>Mohammed</B>," why not? Anyone who has preached KRSNa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kRSNa tattva vettA, sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. That is Caitanya MahAprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The <B>Mohammed</B> also said Allah akbar. Dr. Patel: Only the difference is that <B>Mohammed</B> is trying to worship niraJjana, nirAkAra, and we... PrabhupAda: No, no, not nirAkAra. That is not... Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His AkAra--"God has form." PrabhupAda: No, <B>Mohammed</B> also has got... Caitanya MahAprabhu argued in Koran. He proved there is kRSNa-bhakti. He proved with the Pathans. Yes. Dr. Patel: Otherwise the Christianity is just our way, I mean, absolutely Vaisnavism. It has been wrongly preached and wrongly initiated in India. That is why it has fallen to disrepute. Otherwise Christianity is just VaiSNava-dharma. Nothing else, to my mind, the way I have studied, I mean the New Testament and all the Christian, all the things. Now, the sermon of Christ is nothing but the preaching of Bhagavad-gItA. PrabhupAda: I never criticized. I simply said that positive side, God consciousness. Dr. Patel: Christ himself was drunk with God consciousness totally. Question #5: What has Hasur <B>Mohammed</B> Sahib said about 14th Century and why? Answer: I have not sufficient information about the instruction of Hazur <B>Mohammed</B> Sahib, but if you mean <B>Mohammed</B>, the inaugurator of Islam religion, I accept him as empowered servant of God because he preached God consciousness in those parts of the world and induced them to accept the authority of God. He is accepted as the servant of God and we have all respect for him. I do not know what he has said about the 14th Century, therefore, I cannot answer this point. You are mentioning the Holy Names of Nanak, Krishna, Kabir, Christ, <B>Mohammed</B>, etc. Out of all of these names we accept Krishna as the Lord and all others representative servant of God, Krishna. In the English dictionary, it is said God is the Supreme Being, and when Krishna appeared on this earth He proved to be the Supreme Being in all respects. We are spreading this Krishna Consciousness Movement all over the world and if all the leaders would accept this philosophy of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, then I am sure that the world would be fortunate to follow one type of religion, and accept one God without any faulty conviction.