gHari

The acarya is right even when he's wrong. You should read the Moon-Thing honestly. http://geocities.com/caitanyamahaprabhu/moonthing1.htm

Thanks for the laugh - it was so Max. I remember when I wanted to be a blade of grass to cushion Sri Caitanya's fall. I guess that was still parental affection though, in ghastly humility. But if that's all I can get, it would be an honour indeed.

I think the procedure is more about saying who isn't a guru than who is. And that is only being responsible given historical evidence.

One day I realized I'd give up my very being to protect Krsna. Perhaps I'll be in a paternal or conjugal role.

http://vedabase.net/sb/11/11/1/en

I very much doubt that that was his meaning. All living entities in santa-rasa? "One or two statements"? That again is misrepresenting the facts. You may well be right, but don't try to prove it with exaggerations. Numerically the falls outnumber the no-falls substantially. Choosing one side of a paradox has never worked before.

From Brahma-Samhita 5.38: The eye of devotion is nothing but the eye of the pure unalloyed spiritual self of the jIva. The form of KRSNa is visible to that eye in proportion to its purification by the practice of devotion. When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the stage of bhAva-bhakti the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve of love by the grace of KRSNa, which enables him to see KRSNa face to face. The phrase "in their hearts" means KRSNa is visible in proportion as their hearts are purified by the practice of devotion.

you in a prison camp?

Srila Sridhara Goswami Maharaja has recommended Srila Govinda Maharaja. But like everyone said, when you are ready, the best guru for you will find you.

Well, it's not really unreasonable given the premise "Bhakti is the only real science". Perhaps the word 'science' could better be 'knowledge' or 'intelligence'. There are many physical sciences each dealing with a portion of the enjoyable world. I think the poster was seeing the puffed-up King with a burger in his mouth as laughable to a truly regal vaishnava. Again it boils down to 'how' and 'why'. Science can only know the 'how'. They often look foolish when they presume to speculate about the 'why'. It is another organ that knows the 'why', the brain is just not qualified. Science not guided by religion is like a child who has mastered arithmetic but has no idea where to use these skills.

Ice age? Too many demons killing devotees? No one wants to chant - everyone wants to enjoy, exploit the material environment. Power mongers create devastating world war leaving only horrible mutants. Unlimited possibilities. Write your own movie script; nothing seems too extreme these days. Maybe a new or old religion will rise that will kill everyone who is not of their faith? My take is that it will increase for 5,000 years to its height, then decrease for another 5,000 years like a bell curve. We heard how it dwindled for a time until revitalized by Srila Bhaktivinoda. In the end I think it will be similar. Those days when we find it difficult to chant 64 rounds, those days will be everyday for everyone in 9,500 years. No one will be able to accept the mercy.

Found it: PrabhupAda: Kalki. Allen Ginsberg: Now, what is Kalki's nature? PrabhupAda: Kalki's nature, that is described in BhAgavata. He will come just like a prince, royal dress with sword, and on horseback, simply killing, no preaching. All rascals killed. No more preaching. (laughing) That is the last. There will be no brain to understand what is God. Allen Ginsberg: There will be no brain to understand God? PrabhupAda: They will be so dull, so dull. It requires brain to understand. Just like in the BhAgavata it is said that evaM prasanna-manaso [sB 1.2.20], "fully joyful," bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, "by practice of bhakti-yoga." EvaM prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataH, mukta-saGgasya: "and freed from all material contamination." He can understand God. Do you think God is so cheap thing, anyone will understand? Because they do not understand, they present something nonsense: "God is like this. God is like that. God is like that." And when God Himself comes, that "Here I am, KRSNa," they don't accept it. They'll create their own God. Allen Ginsberg: So Kalki comes at the end of the Kali-yuga? PrabhupAda: Yes. Allen Ginsberg: And is Kalki connected with the Kali-yuga cycle? PrabhupAda: Yes. Kalki, yes. Allen Ginsberg: So He would come at the end of Kali-yuga to end the yuga. PrabhupAda: Yes. Then Satya-yuga will begin. Allen Ginsberg: Then what begins? PrabhupAda: Satya-yuga. Allen Ginsberg: Which is? PrabhupAda: Satya-yuga, the pious. Satya-yuga. People will be pious, truthful, long-living. Allen Ginsberg: Are those people that remain or whatever new creation comes out of the destruction? PrabhupAda: Some of them will remain, some of them. It will not completely extinguish. Some of them will remain, pious. ParitrANAya sAdhUnAM vinAzAya ca duSkRtAm [bg. 4.8]. All miscreants will be killed, and out of them, there must be some pious... They remain. Allen Ginsberg: Do you think of this in terms of a historical event that will occur in the lifetime of your disciples? PrabhupAda: No. This will happen at least 400,000's of years after, at least. So by that time... Allen Ginsberg: They will go down, down, down for 400,000 years? PrabhupAda: Yes. So at that time my disciples will be with KRSNa. (laughter) Devotees: Haribol! PrabhupAda: And those who will not follow them, they will see the fun, how they are being killed. (laughter) <B>Allen Ginsberg: 400,000 years. Will people still be chanting Hare KRSNa in 400,000... PrabhupAda: No. Hare KRSNa will be finished within ten thousand years. There will be no more Hare KRSNa.</b> Allen Ginsberg: Ah. So what will be left? PrabhupAda: Nothing. Left will be I'll kill you and eat you, and you shall kill me. You shall eat me. That will be left. Allen Ginsberg: After ten thousand years? PrabhupAda: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat-eating. (laughter) Full facility. KRSNa is very kind. He'll give you facility: "All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely." Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own offsprings, tigers. So this will happen. Allen Ginsberg: Kali eats her own... PrabhupAda: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to, to the dog. And then KRSNa will come: "All right, let me kill you so that you are saved." So... Allen Ginsberg: But you see it as actually a historical thing of ten thousand years for the chanting, of the diminishing chanting of... PrabhupAda: Yes. These are... Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think more people will chant Hare KRSNa or fewer? PrabhupAda: Oh, yes. More people. Now it will increase. Allen Ginsberg: Until? PrabhupAda: Up to ten thousand years. Allen Ginsberg: And then? PrabhupAda: Then diminish. Allen Ginsberg: So what is the purpose of right now, a world increase... PrabhupAda: People will take advantage of this up to ten thousand years. Then they will... Allen Ginsberg: So this is like the last rope, the last gasp. PrabhupAda: (laughs) Yes. So the sooner we take to shelter, shelter of KRSNa consciousness, is better.

"second generation" has meant the gurukula generation so long that one would need to use another term if they would mean grand-disciples.

Then what is tha meaning of the 10,000 figure? From http://vedabase.net/sb/8/5/23/en When KRSNa appeared, He gave His orders, and when KRSNa Himself appeared as a devotee, as SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu, He showed us the path by which to cross the ocean of Kali-yuga. That is the path of the Hare KRSNa movement. When SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu appeared, He ushered in the era for the saGkIrtana movement. It is also said that for ten thousand years this era will continue. This means that simply by accepting the saGkIrtana movement and chanting the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra, the fallen souls of this Kali-yuga will be delivered. After the Battle of KurukSetra, at which Bhagavad-gItA was spoken, Kali-yuga continues for 432,000 years, of which only 5,000 years have passed. Thus there is still a balance of 427,000 years to come. Of these 427,000 years, the 10,000 years of the saGkIrtana movement inaugurated by SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu 500 years ago provide the opportunity for the fallen souls of Kali-yuga to take to the KRSNa consciousness movement, chant the Hare KRSNa mahA-mantra and thus be delivered from the clutches of material existence and return home, back to Godhead.

Age of Sankirtana is 10,000 years long. Almost 400,000 years of degradation follow that before Kalki avatara. We definitely have to be out of here in 9,500 years.

To understand the magic of 64 rounds one need only to chant 64 rounds. It's a world where surrender becomes second nature. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Such a satisfying dessert. Never look back.

Govindam adi Purusam, those are the good words. Perhaps try to read just one paragraph a day. He is so heavy that one needs to read and reread it many times to get all the juice on all levels. The mercy is there for the taking. Dig in.

Samadhi else, not me.

Most compelling argument. As far as meat-eaters lacking sense control, I remember my young son's disbelief that people ate animals: "It's not chicken the bird, Daddy. It's flat like paper". I hate my lazy ex-wife for arguing with a four year old for two hours after he had decided not to eat animals anymore.

The great saintly guru Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada prepares people to read the Bhagavad-gita in his Introduction to Bhagavad-gita As It Is. A segment of His Divine Grace's advice follows: Bhagavad-gItA is also known as GItopaniSad. It is the essence of Vedic knowledge and one of the most important UpaniSads in Vedic literature. Of course there are many commentaries in English on the Bhagavad-gItA, and one may question the necessity for another one. This present edition can be explained in the following way. Recently an American lady asked me to recommend an English translation of Bhagavad-gItA. Of course in America there are so many editions of Bhagavad-gItA available in English, but as far as I have seen, not only in America but also in India, none of them can be strictly said to be authoritative because in almost every one of them the commentator has expressed his own opinions without touching the spirit of Bhagavad-gItA as it is. The spirit of Bhagavad-gItA is mentioned in Bhagavad-gItA itself. It is just like this: If we want to take a particular medicine, then we have to follow the directions written on the label. We cannot take the medicine according to our own whim or the direction of a friend. It must be taken according to the directions on the label or the directions given by a physician. Similarly, Bhagavad-gItA should be taken or accepted as it is directed by the speaker Himself. The speaker of Bhagavad-gItA is Lord SrI KRSNa. He is mentioned on every page of Bhagavad-gItA as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, BhagavAn. Of course the word bhagavAn sometimes refers to any powerful person or any powerful demigod, and certainly here bhagavAn designates Lord SrI KRSNa as a great personality, but at the same time we should know that Lord SrI KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as is confirmed by all great AcAryas (spiritual masters) like SaGkarAcArya, RAmAnujAcArya, MadhvAcArya, NimbArka SvAmI, SrI Caitanya MahAprabhu and many other authorities of Vedic knowledge in India. The Lord Himself also establishes Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gItA, and He is accepted as such in the Brahma-saMhitA and all the PurANas, especially the SrImad-BhAgavatam, known as the BhAgavata PurANa (kRSNas tu bhagavAn svayam [sB 1.3.28]). Therefore we should take Bhagavad-gItA as it is directed by the Personality of Godhead Himself . In the Fourth Chapter of the GItA (4.1–3) the Lord says: <center> imaM vivasvate yogaM proktavAn aham avyayam vivasvAn manave prAha manur ikSvAkave 'bravIt [bg. 4.1] evaM paramparA-prAptam imaM rAjarSayo viduH sa kAleneha mahatA yogo naSTaH parantapa [bg. 4.2] sa evAyaM mayA te 'dya yogaH proktaH purAtanaH bhakto 'si me sakhA ceti rahasyaM hy etad uttamam [bg. 4.3] </center> Here the Lord informs Arjuna that this system of yoga, the Bhagavad-gItA, was first spoken to the sun-god, and the sun-god explained it to Manu, and Manu explained it to IkSvAku, and in that way, by disciplic succession, one speaker after another, this yoga system has been coming down. But in the course of time it has become lost. Consequently the Lord has to speak it again, this time to Arjuna on the Battlefield of KurukSetra. He tells Arjuna that He is relating this supreme secret to him because Arjuna is His devotee and His friend. The purport of this is that Bhagavad-gItA is a treatise which is especially meant for the devotee of the Lord. There are three classes of transcendentalists, namely the jJAnI, the yogI and the bhakta, or the impersonalist, the meditator and the devotee. Here the Lord clearly tells Arjuna that He is making him the first receiver of a new paramparA (disciplic succession) because the old succession was broken. It was the Lord's wish, therefore, to establish another paramparA in the same line of thought that was coming down from the sun-god to others, and it was His wish that His teaching be distributed anew by Arjuna. He wanted Arjuna to become the authority in understanding the Bhagavad-gItA. So we see that Bhagavad-gItA is instructed to Arjuna especially because Arjuna was a devotee of the Lord, a direct student of KRSNa, and His intimate friend. Therefore Bhagavad-gItA is best understood by a person who has qualities similar to Arjuna's. That is to say he must be a devotee in a direct relationship with the Lord. As soon as one becomes a devotee of the Lord, he also has a direct relationship with the Lord . That is a very elaborate subject matter, but briefly it can be stated that a devotee is in a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in one of five different ways: 1. One may be a devotee in a passive state; 2. One may be a devotee in an active state; 3. One may be a devotee as a friend; 4. One may be a devotee as a parent; 5. One may be a devotee as a conjugal lover. Arjuna was in a relationship with the Lord as friend. Of course there is a gulf of difference between this friendship and the friendship found in the material world. This is transcendental friendship, which cannot be had by everyone. Of course everyone has a particular relationship with the Lord, and that relationship is evoked by the perfection of devotional service. But in the present status of our life, not only have we forgotten the Supreme Lord, but we have forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord. Every living being, out of the many, many billions and trillions of living beings, has a particular relationship with the Lord eternally. That is called svarUpa. By the process of devotional service, one can revive that svarUpa, and that stage is called svarUpa-siddhi--perfection of one's constitutional position. So Arjuna was a devotee, and he was in touch with the Supreme Lord in friendship. How Arjuna accepted this Bhagavad-gItA should be noted. His manner of acceptance is given in the Tenth Chapter (10.12–14): <center> arjuna uvAca paraM brahma paraM dhAma pavitraM paramaM bhavAn puruSaM zAzvataM divyam Adi-devam ajaM vibhum Ahus tvAm RSayaH sarve devarSir nAradas tathA asito devalo vyAsaH svayaM caiva bravISi me sarvam etad RtaM manye yan mAM vadasi kezava na hi te bhagavan vyaktiM vidur devA na dAnavAH </center> "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest. All the great sages such as NArada, Asita, Devala, and VyAsa confirm this truth about You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me. O KRSNa, I totally accept as truth all that You have told me. Neither the demigods nor the demons, O Lord, can understand Your personality." After hearing Bhagavad-gItA from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Arjuna accepted KRSNa as paraM brahma, the Supreme Brahman. Every living being is Brahman, but the supreme living being, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the Supreme Brahman. ParaM dhAma means that He is the supreme rest or abode of everything; pavitram means that He is pure, untainted by material contamination; puruSam means that He is the supreme enjoyer; zAzvatam, original; divyam, transcendental; Adi-devam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; ajam, the unborn; and vibhum, the greatest. Now one may think that because KRSNa was the friend of Arjuna, Arjuna was telling Him all this by way of flattery, but Arjuna, just to drive out this kind of doubt from the minds of the readers of Bhagavad-gItA, substantiates these praises in the next verse when he says that KRSNa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead not only by himself but by authorities like NArada, Asita, Devala and VyAsadeva. These are great personalities who distribute the Vedic knowledge as it is accepted by all AcAryas. Therefore Arjuna tells KRSNa that he accepts whatever He says to be completely perfect. Sarvam etad RtaM manye: "I accept everything You say to be true." Arjuna also says that the personality of the Lord is very difficult to understand and that He cannot be known even by the great demigods. This means that the Lord cannot even be known by personalities greater than human beings. So how can a human being understand Lord SrI KRSNa without becoming His devotee? Therefore Bhagavad-gItA should be taken up in a spirit of devotion. One should not think that he is equal to KRSNa, nor should he think that KRSNa is an ordinary personality or even a very great personality. Lord SrI KRSNa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So according to the statements of Bhagavad-gItA or the statements of Arjuna, the person who is trying to understand the Bhagavad-gItA, we should at least theoretically accept SrI KRSNa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and with that submissive spirit we can understand the Bhagavad-gItA. Unless one reads the Bhagavad-gItA in a submissive spirit, it is very difficult to understand Bhagavad-gItA, because it is a great mystery.

Excerpt from "<a href=http://www.guardian-of-devotion.de/books/HEARTHALO.PDF target=new>Heart and Halo</a>" by Srila Sridhara Maharaja: In Adi-lila 10.53, it is explained that Srila Gadadhar Das, the twenty-third branch of the Chaitanya tree, is considered to be a united form of Candrakanti, who is the effulgence of Srimati Radharani, and Purnananda, who is the foremost of Lord Balarama’s very dear girlfriends. Thus Srila Gadadhar Das was one of the associates of both Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu.) It is as if Mahaprabhu has taken away Gadadhar Pandit’s soul, and the body is still standing! That is the position of Gadadhar Pandit; he is quite empty, and following Mahaprabhu. He is not full in himself. Something, the most important thing, his heart, has been taken by Mahaprabhu, so he has no other alternative but to follow Him. He is wholly given to Mahaprabhu. Gadadhar Pandit’s position, the part he played, was something like that of Radharani, Her heart stolen by Krishna, the empty body still standing. Radha-bhava-dyuti-subalitam naumi Krsna-svarupam: He was fully engrossed in the conception of Sri Gauranga. Gauranga had taken everything from him, so he had no other alternative; he was fully engrossed, captured completely by Him. We find his activity throughout his whole life was like this. Of the other devotees, some were ordered to go to Vrndavan, and some were allowed to go to Vrndavan, and some were allowed to go there, but though Gadadhar Pandit wanted to visit Vrndavan with Mahaprabhu Himself, he was denied: “No, you won’t go.” When Jagadananda Pandit asked to go there, Mahaprabhu, with hesitation, granted him permission, “Yes, go there, but move always under the guidance of Rupa and Sanatana.” He also gave him some special instructions: “Do this, and this, and don’t do that.” But Gadadhar Pandit was not allowed to go there. He was the representation of Srimati Radharani Herself, yet his peculiar position was such: the Queen of Vrndavan, but now transferred to Nabadwip. His position had become just the opposite; he could not enter Vrndavan! He prayed for permission, but Mahaprabhu did not give it. He said, “No, stay and live here.” And he had to do so. Sri Gadadhar Pandit represents the predominated moiety of the Whole. The Whole consists of predominating and predominated moieties, and he represents the predominated half. He is one half of the Absolute Truth. In the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, whose preaching was inspired by Sri Gadadhar Pandit and Sriman Mahaprabhu, we also find all the substance that is present in that plane of vibration. These two personalities, Sri Gadadhar Pandit and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur, are our great gurus, our guides, and be offering our worship to them we can sow the seed of our highest benefit. By the grace of that great Guru Maharaj Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupada, we have been able to understand this. And Bhaktivinoda Thakura, though generally he has his own position, as understood from the consideration of the disciple, Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura has seen Srimad Radharani in him: a ‘relative’ vision. He once said that Radharani represents the full play of astanayika, the eight characteristics of the heroine; we see that they are all perfectly represented in Her. In other places we may find partial representations of them, but we find them fully manifest only in Her. He said, “I see my gurudeva as Guna-manjari, and in that manjari form he has some partial representation of Radharani. But if I attempt to look more deeply, I find him identified fully with Her; the eight kinds of qualities displayed in the service of Krishna (asta-nayika) are to be found there. If I look at him with my head a little more erect, I can see that he is one with Radharani. Acaryam mam vijaniyat: know the Acarya as Myself. If I give more attention to this sastric rule and try to search out the meaning, I find that Radharani comes to take Her place there, in the position of my gurudeva.” In this way he has seen in Bhaktivinoda Thakura the fullest representation of the cult of Sri Gauranga. This realization is expressed in his poem where he says that he saw Svarupa Damodara Goswami in Gaura-kisor Dasa Babaji, and Sri Gadadhar Pandita in Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. In one place he has written: gadadhara-din dhari’ paiyacche gaura-hari, that he has accepted the day of the disappearance of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura to be identified with that of Sri Gadadhar Pandit.. In another place, <B>in his poem at the conclusion of his Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta commentary, he has written: “Here, in Nabadwip-dhama, the eternal pastimes are going on continuously; only those who have got that deep vision can perceive it. gadadhara mitra-vara, sri svarupa damodara, sada kala gaura-krsna yaje jagatera dekhi’ klesa, dhariya bhiksuka-vesa, aharahah krsna-nama bhaje sri gaura icchaya dui, mahima ki kava mui, aprakrta parisada-katha prakata haiya seve, krsna-gaurabhinna-deve, aprakasya katha yatha tatha He says; “It is very difficult to perceive the sweet will of Sri Gauranga, but if we can lift ourselves to that level, we see that Svarupa Damodar Goswami and Sri Gadadhar Pandit are always engaged in their service here in Nabadwip. Sometimes it is suppressed and sometimes it is appearing on the surface. In that plane all is going on by the sweet will of Sri Gauranga, without any restriction. But now I find that those two have appeared on the surface as Srila Gaura-kisora Dasa Babaji and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. I have seen it with my own eye of divine service but this is not to be advertised, not to be given publicity anywhere and everywhere; people will laugh at it. But this is my heartfelt conclusion.”</b> He has written this in his poem concluding Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta. So Gadadhar Pandit was identified with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. That was the vision of our Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. He could see in them the same identity. He considered siksa-guru parampara to be the most substantial thing. Eliminating the sahajiya-vada which gives much importance to the outer cover, try to look within, and see things more deeply. Try to understand the deeper vibrations of the outside environment, and see within yourself also. Dive deep, and you will find the plane of the finest vibration which will carry that news to you, and you will see that truth. So those who are worried about 'living' gurus please feel confident to chant <B>Sri Krsna Caitanya Prabhu Nityananda Sri Advaita Gadadhara Srivasadi Gaura-bhakta-vrinda</b>.

Of course, if you really want, in your next life you could be born in the universe where Lord Krishna arrives for His pastimes. So the question is not simply academic. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said that Sri Caitanya's pastimes in Gaura-lila are always happening here, sometimes they are visible, sometimes not.

Amen

Was waiting with such anticipation for the Max words; but this, this was so profound and beautiful, Mahak, even far beyond my high expectations. Laughing, then crying from the sheer beauty, I offer absolute gratitude for such perfect revelation of truth. May it enter the hearts of the world and save us all from the hypocrisy of our times. More than any, this, the thread of threads, needs to be in the group of "Most interesting threads".

Bread --- manna, divine food sent from heaven, intelligence sent from God, buddhi-yogam.