gHari

Yet you can't speak sensibly about it, and attack devotees, devotees!, when asked to state the story simply. I hope you will show more respect and rationality to the judge. If you come off as a kook you will serve neither yourself nor Krsna well. It could get ugly. Be simple. Talk simple. Learn what is the real issue. Speak only about that, simply. Don't cloud the issue - it all gets too emotional, and frankly starts sounding pretty irrational to me. You could have used all that energy to get a job instead of fuming in the flame war. You want an audience, get something done - newspapers and your Member of Parliament will listen - if you become simple and sensible. But it does sound like you were off the wall long before the 'Krsna' comment.

So you are looking for a pay-off? Not a chance. That's why you're so irrational. I said it in two sentences. Reduce it to two sentences in your mind so you can see it in perspective. And move on.

It sounds like a flame war began when a head-hunter questionaire asked job seekers to state their religion. Don complained to the Human Rights people when he thought he wasn't getting the job offers he should get, but the person who handled his complaint initially said "we don't cover Krsna here" over the phone when Don complained about religious discimination. Who knows? Move on, Don. There are other jobs. If that person wasn't fired yet, I am sure someone even themselves has wised them up by now about the Indian religion - even in the redneck prairies.

We're supposed to guess.

If you can't say it in two sentences, then it is psychosis. Are you afraid you'll sound crazy? A man at the store stopped you from chanting and you complained to the Human Rights Commission. They told you they 'don't do Krsna complaints". The police threw you in jail for chanting on your porch and you complained ...... "we don't do Krsna ..." The Mounties murdered your daughter and .... "we don't do Krsna ..." Like what is the story? Are you really psychotic? That is their perception. We have no story. What does 'Krsna" have to do with all this legaleeze? Do you really expect anyone here to sift through screens and screens of this stuff to try to piece together some sort of cause and effect? I usually avoid all that political maya stuff that drowns your consciousness, but this seemed different. Maybe it's only one clerical dead-head in the Rights office who doesn't handle Krsna, or maybe it's in the statutes. Maybe you said "Hare Krsna" to all Staples' customers and they fired you. When you complained to the Rights folks some dingbat there said "we don't do Krsna ..." There's two sentences.

Two sentences: these persons did this, so I said that to these people who said "we don't cover Krsna here". Just shave the psychosis and get rational. How am I supposed to know the story?

Cut the legal double-talk. In two sentences, what happened?

While "Communicating the Gospel to Hindus/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists" may be the goal of this 'history' course, it does indeed appear that a Hindu has just preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to a Christian. Hallelujah, Hannah! If you really want to help the Hindus, the Muslims, the Jews, etc. simply preach "Thy will be done" and the "Kingdom of God". This is universal essential religious truth, and the essense of every religious system. Then you will be actually serving the desires of Lord Jesus. Don't throw stumbling blocks at the feet of the weak. The Holy Spirit will not support such efforts. Let Him guide your words to avoid the hypocrisy. P.S. Hannah, don't believe everything your teachers or their books tell you. There is a very definite agenda in that curriculum. You will get the straight goods here.

I'll answer briefly. Please forgive my honesty: What does your faith mean to you personally? Socially? Culturally? Faith is my identity. It is who and what I am, why I exist. Socially it makes me an outcast, for the West is an ungodly place. Culturally it makes me a vegetarian, who eats with his right hand, and who has a taste for the finer elements of this world. How do you live your faith day-to-day? Moment-to-moment the secret of every religion is to surrender to the will of God (Thy will be done). When Krsna spoke to Arjuna in the scripture known as the Bhagavad-gita (Song of God), after explaining so many ways to learn to love Him, His final instruction was "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me". How easy or difficult is it to practice your faith in the United States? If one is wise he doesn't talk specifics, only generalized nonsectarian religious truth, and then only as much as the passionate audience can tolerate. If you make friends with an elephant trainer, you need to have room in your living room for an elephant. Therefore truly religious people have few friends that are not elephant trainers as well. But one can remember God anywhere anytime, surrounded by any kind of people. It's only when we try to divert them from their enjoyment, turning them towards God, that we sometimes incur their wrath. Which portion of your sacred scriptures is most meaningful to you and why? Which is most challenging? To me, "Remember Me and do not forget Me" and "Just surrender unto Me" and "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God" are the most meaningful. The first two are spoken by Lord Krishna and the last by Lord Jesus Christ. I find those statements most meaningful because essential truth, spoken concisely is true eloquence - and they sum up our best interest so very memorably. The most challenging topic is the understanding of the essence of love of God known as Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. For me it remains an enchanting unknowable miracle. What holy places are especially significant to your faith? Why? Vrindavan and Mayapura, India are very holy, although there are thousands of holy places of pilgrimage in India. Vrindavan is the place where Krsna and His lover, Radha spent their intimate time, and it is said to be identical to Their private garden in the Kingdom of God. Mayapura is where Lord Caitanya appeared, and where He continues to this day to sing and dance in the ecstacy of love of God in some unperceivable dimension of reality. Have you ever been on a pilgrimage to a holy place or sacred site? What was it like? Are you planning to go in the future? How important is it for you to go? I have never been to India. I have been to holy Temples which were sanctified by the presence of saintly men and women, and the arcana and sound forms of God. It was peaceful, very peaceful, no anxieties. It felt like you could stay forever. I would go to India, but only if it happens. I feel no great need to go, since God seems to be everywhere I go. I essentially just follow my feet around moment-to-moment, and if they go to India, then I'll go with them. What role does your family play in the practice and living out of your faith? I have a son who gave me strength to continue against all odds on the devotional path to God decades ago. How do you view Christianity and the Christian church? Everyone does what they can do, what they need to do. Jesus and his disciples left us little real theology, so most of it is simply the speculation of sincere followers. For me, the words of Jesus are gospel. Had it not been so, I would never have had the fortune to come in contact with and drown in the waves of love of God that flow from India. Lord Jesus told me to love God; Lord Caitanya tells me how. What is your general impression of Christians? Well, most people including me in all religions are poseurs, doing what we can despite attachments to this world. I think very few know what Jesus actually taught, and for this I blame the preachers. Yet, if they were to know, they would have difficulty giving up their enjoyment of the world, for it is easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a worldly rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. What do you think of Jesus? Jesus was sent by Krsna to teach the good news about the Kingdom of God. That is the essence of preaching. How else will we know? That is what life is about, not food and fancy clothing, power and lust, and all our nonsense abound. Do you know any followers of your faith who have converted to Christianity? Why do you think they became Christian? I think they were poor Hindus, so they will be equally poor Christians. The essence is the same: surrender to God and love God. The attachments that blocked them from the Kingdom before will still block them. For the wise man: a Christian is a Hindu, and a Hindu is a Christian. This is the actual reality. Seeing difference, that disqualifies the poseurs. Well, that is who I am, and except for a few possible eccentricities here and there, that is Hinduism, in its highest realization. gHari

No. The only qualification to see God is krpa, mercy. And that is causeless. No one can ever become quaified to see God just by becoming a refined nice guy.

God exists. It is we who don't.

Put your hand in a fire. You will experience immediate karma. All karma is quite similarly God's mercy.

To see the Supersoul in every living entity's heart, first we must see Him in our own hearts. Supersoul: "Remember Me. I will take you to Krsna. You will be with Me when you are not attached".

Jnana from the cream of the Vedas, the Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.5.20-33: SrI KarabhAjana replied: In each of the four yugas, or ages--KRta, TretA, DvApara and Kali--Lord Kezava appears with various complexions, names and forms and is thus worshiped by various processes. In Satya-yuga the Lord is white and four-armed, has matted locks and wears a garment of tree bark. He carries a black deerskin, a sacred thread, prayer beads and the rod and waterpot of a brahmacArI. People <B>in Satya-yuga</b> are peaceful, nonenvious, friendly to every creature and steady in all situations. <B>They worship the Supreme Personality by austere meditation and by internal and external sense control</B>. In Satya-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names HaMsa, SuparNa, VaikuNTha, Dharma, Yogezvara, Amala, Izvara, PuruSa, Avyakta and ParamAtmA. In TretA-yuga the Lord appears with a red complexion. He has four arms, golden hair, and wears a triple belt representing initiation into each of the three Vedas. Embodying the knowledge of worship by sacrificial performance, which is contained in the Rg, SAma and Yajur Vedas, His symbols are the ladle, spoon and other implements of sacrifice. <B>In TretA-yuga</B>, those members of human society who are fixed in religiosity and are sincerely interested in achieving the Absolute Truth worship Lord Hari, who contains within Himself all the demigods. <B>The Lord is worshiped by the rituals of sacrifice taught in the three Vedas</B>. In TretA-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names ViSNu, YajJa, PRznigarbha, Sarvadeva, Urukrama, VRSAkapi, Jayanta and UrugAya. In DvApara-yuga the Supreme Personality of Godhead appears with a dark blue complexion, wearing yellow garments. The Lord's transcendental body is marked in this incarnation with SrIvatsa and other distinctive ornaments, and He manifests His personal weapons. My dear King, <B>in DvApara-yuga</B> men who desire to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the supreme enjoyer, <B>worship Him in the mood of honoring a great king, following the prescriptions of both the Vedas and tantras</B>. "Obeisances to You, O Supreme Lord VAsudeva, and to Your forms of SaGkarSaNa, Pradyumna and Aniruddha. O Supreme Personality of Godhead, all obeisances unto You. O Lord NArAyaNa RSi, O creator of the universe, best of personalities, master of this cosmos and original form of the universe, O Supersoul of all created entities, all homage unto You." O King, in this way people in DvApara-yuga glorified the Lord of the universe. In Kali-yuga also people worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead by following various regulations of the revealed scriptures. Now kindly hear of this from me. In the age of Kali, intelligent persons perform congregational chanting to worship the incarnation of Godhead who constantly sings the names of KRSNa . Although His complexion is not blackish, He is KRSNa Himself. He is accompanied by His associates, servants, weapons and confidential companions. My dear Lord, You are the MahA-puruSa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and I worship Your lotus feet, which are the only eternal object of meditation. Those feet destroy the embarrassing conditions of material life and freely award the greatest desire of the soul, the attainment of pure love of Godhead. My dear Lord, Your lotus feet are the shelter of all holy places and of all saintly authorities in the line of devotional service and are honored by powerful demigods like Lord Siva and Lord BrahmA. My Lord, You are so kind that You willingly protect all those who simply bow down to You with respect, and thus You mercifully relieve all the distress of Your servants. In conclusion, my Lord, Your lotus feet are actually the suitable boat for crossing over the ocean of birth and death, and therefore even Lord BrahmA and Lord Siva seek shelter at Your lotus feet."

This is sankirtana as presented by Gauranga, Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu: Glory to the Sri Krsna sankirtana , which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious. O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds of millions of names like Krsna and Govinda . In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly. O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth. O son of Maharaja Nanda [Krsna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet. O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name? O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence. I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally. These are the only eight shlokas left by Lord Gauranga, the inaugurator of the sankirtana movement. No matter what anyone will say, or in spite of everything you may have heard, this is the HKs.

Been searching for an hour, but could only find a SB purport in which they are 'perturbed'. http://vedabase.net/sb/7/8/56/en There is a much better reference somewhere. I remember using it in the Origin debates of another millenia to show that even Jaya and Vijaya believed that it is possible to fall from Vaikuntha into the material sphere. Perhaps you will find it. I'm off to work.

What makes one think anyone thought they were afraid of the Lord?

From http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/10/120/en In the Gaura-gaëoddeça-dépikä (115) it is said that the two brothers Jagäi and Mädhäi were formerly the doorkeepers named Jaya and Vijaya, who later became Hiraëyäkña and Hiraëyakaçipu.

"Lord Brahmä continued: Those two principal doorkeepers of the Personality of Godhead have now entered the womb of Diti, the powerful semen of Kaçyapa Muni having covered them. PURPORT <B>Here is clear proof of how a living entity coming originally from Vaikuëöhaloka is encaged in material elements. "</b>

When Jaya and Vijaya learned that they were being sent into the material world, they were very very afraid, and pleaded to not go.

What do you speculate that 'japa' means, as it is used by Lord Krishna in BG 10.25? What do you think about the various references to the Hare Krsna mantra in the Upanishads? Are they wrong too? You do yourself no favors by pretending to be an expert, except and only to reveal why you play the game.

Bhagavad-gita 10.25 <BLOCKQUOTE><CENTER><FONT COLOR=RED>maharSINAM bhRgur ahaM girAm asmy ekam akSaram yajJAnAM japa-yajJo 'smi sthAvarANAM himAlayaH </CENTER> mahA-RSINAm--among the great sages; bhRguH--BhRgu; aham--I am; girAm--of vibrations; asmi--I am; ekam akSaram--praNava; yajJAnAm--of sacrifices; japa-yajJaH--chanting; asmi--I am; sthAvarANAm--of immovable things; himAlayaH--the HimAlayan mountains. <B></FONT> Of the great sages I am BhRgu; of vibrations I am the transcendental oM. Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names [japa], and of immovable things I am the HimAlayas.</BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not something we do for a few hours here and there. Lord Krishna teaches us in the Bhagavad-gita to "Remember Me. Do not forget Me". All those various yogas, they are meant to bring us closer to Him. He teaches us through our life experiences. Karma-yoga at work. Action while remembering Him, allowing Him to influence our life, this is what will make His presence known. It will not take long to learn that He exists. Reading the books of Srila Prabhupada will infect you with his faith and love for God. It will come easily, naturally. This is difficult, but it is very powerful and can be done anywhere anytime: thread the Panca-tattva mantra through the mind as you perform your daily activities. Make it your top priority and let the body do as it will. Sri-Krsna-Caitanya Prabhu-Nityananda Sri-Advaita Gadadhara Srivasadi-Gaura-bhakta-vrinda. Watch the attachments fall away like dust in the wind. It is the attachments that stand between you and God. Catch a glimpse and find that conclusive truth that will ignite your heart. Your devotion is eternal, it is simply covered over now by various degrees of lust and attachment. These things are not eternal. They are foreign to you. They cannot stand long if you don't want them to, they are simply not part of your being. Moment-to-moment, "Remember Me. Do not forget Me". This is the bottom line.

Mahaksadas, these poor souls are doomed and by engaging them we only compound their offenses. I suggest we let them alone, for they never listen or respond to reason anyway. I now have only an empty hole in my heart for both of them. Hopefully that is not Krsna's position too. It would however explain why that camp never thinks of Him. I am engaged to walk away from this ocean of aparadha. Surf at yer own risk, dude.

This is simply not true for Lord Krishna, Himself, in the Bhagavad-gita explains that He is the OMkara, He is japa. The Upanishads directly proclaim the glory of the Hare Krsna mahamantra. All these other yogic disciplines are presented for those who are too attached to the senses, that they may become freed from their poisonous grip, that the soul and Supersoul can be reached and true yoga can begin. To think that bhakti-yoga does not include all these other yogas is a misunderstanding. To think that the calming effects of pranayama practice or the control facilities provided by kundalini science or the assistance granted by Paramatma through Astanga or Dhyana yoga are not included in bhakti-yoga is simply incorrect. Krsna teaches these sciences in the Bhagavad-gita, and He teaches them directly to the heart of the bhakti-yogi. The only difference is in the motivation. Ridiculing the Hare Krsna sankirtana movement of Sri Krsna Caitanya is suicide. Doing so defames yourself and your guru. Surely he is not so foolish and insincere. Maybe you are not interested in God, but simply power, glory for yourself, respect among the flock. But, the big fish in a little pond is always smaller than a little fish in the ocean. If it is the ego we seek to embellish then becoming a slave of the greatest master is the highest position available to the tiny soul. Continue with the yogas but keep the goal in sight. Then the stay at each level will be reduced.