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  1. THE VEDIC ION ENGINE By Bhalchandra Patwardhan The National Aeronautics and Space Administration was planning a rendezvous with Haley’s comet in the 1980s. They planned to use a space probe powered by an Ion Engine. This Engine used a stream of high-velocity electrified particles instead of a blast of hot gases. The theory of the Ion Engine has been credited to Robert Goddard, long recognized as the father of Liquid-fuel Rocketry. It is claimed that in 1906, long before Goddard launched his first modern rocket, his imagination had conceived the idea of an Ion rocket; however, in light of new evidence, the story could be entirely different. In 1895 on a beach in the city of Mumbai (Bombay, Maharashtra, India), Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, a Sanskrit scholar, proved that heavier-than-air flight was indeed possible. This demonstration was attended by eminent citizens including, among others, His Highness Maharaja Sayajirao Gaekwand of Baroda and Mr. Justice Ranade, and was reported in “The Kesari” a leading Marathi daily newspaper. Readers might note that this occurred a full eight years before the Wright Brothers’ “First” flight at Kitty hawk, North Carolina, USA. An even more astonishing feature of Talpade’s craft was the power source he used- An Ion Engine.” Certain verses in the 10th chapter of the Rig-Veda make reference to the Art of Flight. The great Rishi Bharadvaja has written a commentary on this in his book “Yantra Vidya” (Science of Machines). Bharadvaja elucidates the mechanism that provides the impulse needed for propulsion. It involves the combination of eight sub-assemblies and uses the interaction of principally Solar energy and Mercury. Talpade put his knowledge of Sanskrit at the disposal of his creative intellect and CONSTRUCTED AN AIRCRAFT ACCORDING TO THE DESCRIPTION GIVEN IN THE RIG-VEDA. IT IS REPORTED THAT THIS FLYING MACHINE GAINED AN ALTITUDE OF 1500 FT. MOST APTLY, HE CALLED HIS AIRCRAFT THE “MARUTSAKHA”- FRIEND OF THE WIND. The engine now being developed for future use by NASA, by some strange coincidence, also uses Mercury bombardment units powered by Solar cells. Interestingly, the impulse is generated in seven stages. The Mercury propellant is first vaporized, fed into the thruster discharge chamber, ionized, converted into plasma by a combination with electrons, broken down electrically, and then accelerated through small openings in a screen to pass out of the engine at velocities between 20,000 and 50,000 meters per second. Although minute details of the Vedic engine would be available only after great research, the resemblance of the “modern” engine to it is totally indisputable. The Ion Engine developed by NASA is capable of producing, at best, about one pound of thrust- a thrust which is virtually useless for lifting an object of any practical mass off the earth. Talpade’s engine, on the other hand, was entirely capable of lifting his aircraft 1500 feet into the air, over 100 years ago. Several important considerations emerge from the foregoing discussion. First, Wilbur and Orville Wright were not the pioneers of modern flight. Secondly, not only had the idea of an Ion Engine been conceived long before Dr Goddard, but it had also been materialized in the form of Talpade’s Marutsakha Aircraft. I do not wish to denigrate those inventors, whose contributions are invaluable, but I think it is now time to review the history of science and recognize the achievements of the previous civilizations. The question of the exaltation or diminution of any country or civilization’s contribution does not arise. My only contention is that if scientific thought began in Vedic civilization earlier than in the West, we should not ignore that fact in our narration of the history of science. (Reproduced from ANCIENT SKIES, BI-monthly published by the ANCIENT ASTRONAUT SOCIETY, 192 St. Johns Ave. Highland Park, Illinois 60035 USA. From a compilation by Mr. Oak.) http://www.vedicempire.net/html/vedicion.htm
  2. to me, the simplicity of krsna consciousness is that all material attachments are given up in the process.
  3. It seemed the terrorists planned this attack for 9-11 after the emergency hotline 911. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 05-12-2002).]
  4. Visit Lord Krishna's holy land.= Can you win a trip to the Holy Land...- = http://contests.indiatimes.com/intmed/entertainment/maha.html
  5. Development history of Vedic Mathematics The following is a series of articles about the development of Vedic Mathematics Calculating Prodigies Tirthaji and the rediscovery of Vedic Mathematics Development of further material Maharishi school When Bharati Krsna Tirthaji gave talks in India after discovering the Vedic system some people took advantage by learning the Vedic methods and giving demonstrations, sometimes pretending to be divinely inspired or to have the help of some spirit. This demonstrates the effectiveness of Vedic Mathematics as an efficient mental system. The Introduction to book "The Natural Calculator" describes the many advantages of mental mathematics and the Vedic system and supports the view that everyone is potentially a lightning calculator. Tirthaji and the rediscovery of Vedic Mathematics The ancient system of Vedic Mathematics was rediscovered from the Sanskrit texts known as the Vedas, between 1911 and 1918 by Sri Bharati Krsna Tirthaji (1884-1960). At the beginning of the twentieth century, when there was a great interest in the Sanskrit texts in Europe, Bharati Krsna tells us some scholars ridiculed certain texts which were headed 'Ganita Sutras'- which means mathematics. They could find no mathematics in the translation and dismissed the texts as rubbish. Bharati Krsna, who was himself a scholar of Sanskrit, Mathematics, History and Philosophy, studied these texts and after lengthy and careful investigation was able to reconstruct the mathematics of the Vedas. According to his research all of mathematics is based on sixteen Sutras, or word-formulae. Bharati Krsna wrote sixteen volumes expounding the Vedic system but these were unaccountably lost and when the loss was confirmed in his final years he wrote a single book: Vedic Mathematics, currently available. It was published in 1965, five years after his death. Development of further material A copy of the book was brought to London a few years later and some English mathematicians (Kenneth Williams, Andrew Nicholas, Jeremy Pickles) took an interest in it. They extended the introductory material given in Bharati Krsna's book and gave many courses and talks in London. A book (now out of print), Introductory Lectures on Vedic Mathematics, was published in 1981. Between 1981 and 1987 Andrew Nicholas made four trips to India initially to find out what further was known about it. Following these journeys a renewed interest was taken by scholars and teachers in India. It seems that once they saw that some people in the West took Vedic Mathematics seriously they realised they had something special. St James' School, then in Queensgate, London, and other schools began to teach the Vedic system, with notable success. Today Vedic Mathematics is taught widely in schools in India and a great deal of research is being done. Three further books appeared in 1984, the year of the centenary of the birth of Sri Bharati Krsna Tirthaji. These were published by The Vedic Mathematics Research Group. Maharishi Schools When Maharishi Mahesh Yogi began to explain the significance and marvelous qualities of Vedic Mathematics in 1988, Maharishi Schools around the world began to teach it. At the school in Skelmersdale, Lancashire a full course was written and trialled for 11 to 14 year old pupils, called The Cosmic Computer. (Maharishi had said that the Sutras of Vedic Mathematics are the software for the cosmic computer- the cosmic computer runs the entire universe on every level and in every detail). This course was published in March 1998. continued from above. CALCULATING PRODIGIES People who can perform astonishingly long or complex calculations in their head are often called calculating prodigies or lightning calculators. There are many examples from the past, from Jedediah Buxton who worked as a labourer and remained illiterate all his life to Karl Friedrich Gauss a mathematician who is ranked with Newton and Archimedes. Since Vedic Mathematics is the most efficient mathematical system it would be interesting to ask whether these calculating prodigies may have used it. It is peculiar to arithmetic that once the basic facts are understood any intelligent person can construct the whole science: number science develops in a totally natural way. This is what seems to have happened in most cases of calculating prodigies. From a basic understanding the young calculator realises that the power of their mind to calculate seems to be almost unlimited. Once they understand a problem they can solve it. Ampere was an amazing mental calculator at the age of three and Gauss at the same age corrected his father's mistake in a payroll reckoning. These people are self-taught, they construct their own methods of calculation. In some cases however the methods they devise are extraordinarily complicated, especially in view of the ultra-efficient methods of Vedic Mathematics. Jedediah Buxton, for example, could multiply huge numbers together in his head but seems to use the most awkward methods, multiplying parts of the number and adding them. This may not have been difficult for him as he had an extraordinary memory. He could remember many long numbers and recite them from the left, from the right or from any other point. He would also remember all the steps in a calculation for a long time afterwards. All mental calculators have a good memory and they make use of previous results they have found out. Some also work two or more figures at a time (a feature of the Vedic system, as is calculating from right to left or left to right). Calculating prodigies do not seem to necessarily always seek the most efficient method - only one that works and that they are happy with. But calculations can often become unconscious and the calculator cannot then describe their method. And furthermore what may have been an effective method can get altered and simplified with practice so that many calculating prodigies may be using Vedic methods without knowing it. References 1. Scripture E.W. (1891) American Journal of Psychology, Vol. IV 1-59 2. Mitchell F.D. (1907) American Journal of Psychology, Vol. XVIII 61-143 3. Williams K.R. (1991) The Natural Calculator, The Vedic Mathematics Research Group" [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 12-21-2001).]
  6. Tejo-mahalaya was built around 13 to->15th century.
  7. <table><td width="30%"> <font color=blue>HEY, WHO's FIGHTI'N In that new THAT CHARIOT, that way!?</font> <center> <img src=http://www.iskcon.org.uk/ies/images/BK-07.jpg width=200 height=300></center> <UL><center>PLATFORM - WHENCE IT CAME </center> The mind spins around on its own, shuffling impressions. Or the mind accepts in a descending process starting from Krsna, through Paramatma, through the atma, and then through the intelligence. "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the intelligence by which they can come to Me". - Krsna, on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra.
  8. What "crown jewels" is inferenced here? If they were stolen they need to be stolen back and installed back when they are from. Regards. #&$#(&*(CaitChan)#E$&*# [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-19-2001).]
  9. What is the standard of deity worship in Dallas temples. (*(very medium -< low. Barsana-dham of AUSTIN is on slaughter lane in southwest austin. I WOULD BE INTERSTED IN THE DIVINE LINEAGE OF the leader of it,,, ISDL. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-17-2001).]
  10. What is the standard of deity worship in Dallas temples. (*(very medium -< low. Barsana-dham of AUSTIN is on slaughter lane in southwest austin. I WOULD BE INTERSTED IN THE DIVINE LINEAGE OF the leader of it,,, ISDL. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-17-2001).]
  11. It would make it easier if the ISKCON temple was on the outskirts of the Carollton area. That way if there was abuse noone would be aware of it!!!---- SomeMoral of the story is when sankirtan travels south a temple should go with it by building south-north. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 04-06-2002).]
  12. It would make it easier if the ISKCON temple was on the outskirts of the Carollton area. That way if there was abuse noone would be aware of it!!!---- SomeMoral of the story is when sankirtan travels south a temple should go with it by building south-north. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 04-06-2002).]
  13. “Religion without philosophy is sentiment, or sometimes fanaticism, while philosophy without religion is mental speculation.” It appears Prabhupada seeks a balance between the theological--ideas and philosophical--reasons of a religion. "Let us call this the Tao of Krishna consciousness – finding the happy medium between the emotional yang and the intellectual yin." Yin is feminine usually categorically seminal to emotion. While Yang is masculine unusually qualified into intellectual thinking. Tao according to TY Eastern Philosophy translated as way. Sincerely, BHAKTA SUPERCOW. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-13-2001).] [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-13-2001).]
  14. I think this is a good arguement to state the limitations of utilizing the eyes as a source of wisdom. I am reading DOR a history of Western philosophy starting from 500bce to 1500bcd. Socrates appears to have Vedic knowledge. For research purposes on Greek philosophy, it would be interesting from where they actualized their knowledge. SINCERELY, <AJS> [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-12-2001).]
  15. Vedic Knowledge and Attitude in Krishna Consciousness Posted by: Krishna-kirti das HDG Topic Srila Prabhupada's Books Dear Vaisnavas and Vaisnavis, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I wish to address a topic which by this time has been covered but which I feel needs to be further highlighted: What is the basis of Srila Prabhupada's remarks about the material world but which are not in line with the views of material scientists? Also, I wish to deal with the phenomenon of why in our vaisnava society there is so much doubt about the Vedic description of material nature. This doubt is not something new and was present even during the time of Srila Prabhupada. One devotee who was initiated by Srila Prabhupada told me that he remembered when the 5th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam was published, many devotees left our society because they could not accept the planetary distances as described in Srimad Bhagavatam. This article attempts to demonstrate the validity of Vedic knowledge regarding material phenomena in the face of contradictory evidence from empiric science as well as demonstrate that attitude, or conviction, plays an essential role in the conclusions we arrive at. This attitude with regard to knowledge can be applied to all other attempts to understanding the various aspects of the mundane world. Vedic Authority Before we go further into the issues, we need to define some key terms. When we say "Vedic Authority", what do we mean? Whenever we use the word "vedic", as in "vedic culture" or "vedic knowledge", we inevitably refer to that culture or knowledge that derives in part or wholly from Vedic literature. The word "veda" itself means "knowledge", and according to the Vedas themselves and other great acaryas, the Vedas (Srutis, Smrtis, Puranas, Itihasas, and other Vedangas) are accepted as apurusaya, or not manufactured by any man but by God Himself: dharmam tu saksad-bhagavat pranitam, "Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.3.19) So in order to receive perfect knowledge, or knowledge that is not subject to the four defects of a conditioned being (makes mistakes, prone to illusion, imperfect senses, and the propensity to cheat), it would seem that all we have to do is just accept whatever we read in the Vedas. We can do this, but for those who are not yet liberated, how we understand the world, including Vedic knowledge, is itself tainted by the four defects of a conditioned soul. How can we be certain that we are correctly understanding that which we are reading, even if it is from the Vedas? This problem is not something new in the world, and even in the West it has been acknowledged as a formidable stumbling block on the path to objective knowledge-so much so that in the West to this day that there can be such a thing as objective knowledge is commonly doubted. One of the first philosophers in the West to address this issue was Socrates. Plato relates a discussion between Socrates and Phaedrus on the matter of the written word versus the spoken word with regard to being able to ascertain the true meaning they represent: Socrates. Writing, Phaedrus, has this strange quality, and is very like painting; for the creatures of painting stand like living beings, but if one asks them a question, they preserve a solemn silence. And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing to know about their sayings, they always say only one and the same thing. And every word, when once it is written, is bandied about, alike among those who understand and those who have no interest in it, and it knows not to whom to speak or not to speak; when ill-treated or unjustly reviled it always needs its father to help it; for it has no power to protect or help itself. Phaedrus. You are quite right about that, too. Notice here that Socrates has described something that all of us have intimate experience of: that which is written is often misinterpreted or malinterpreted by those who have ulterior ambitions to fulfill. And the fact is that anyone who is not liberated still has some ulterior ambition to fulfill, however small it may be; that tinge of material desire may still be enough, however, to spoil the whole of the intended meaning of the written word. But then Socrates recommends a solution: Socrates. Now tell me; is there not another kind of speech, or word, which shows itself to be the legitimate brother of this bastard one, both in the manner of its begetting and in its better and more powerful nature? Phaedrus. What is this word and how is it begotten, as you say? Socrates. The word which is written with intelligence in the mind of the learner, which is able to defend itself and knows to whom it should speak, and before whom to be silent. Phaedrus. You mean the living and breathing word of him who knows, of which the written word may justly be called the image. Socrates. Exactly. [. . .] Socrates. Yes, Phaedrus, so it is; but, in my opinion, serious discourse about them is far nobler, when one employs the dialectic method and plants and sows in a fitting soul intelligent words which are able to help themselves and him who planted them, which are not fruitless, but yield seed from which there spring up in other minds other words capable of continuing the process for ever, and which make their possessor happy, to the farthest possible limit of human happiness. (Translation by Harold North Fowler) It is Socrates conclusion that real knowledge resides within the heart, or consciousness, of a person, not within the written word. For this reason Socrates never wrote anything, preferring discussion and dialectic. Of course, Plato, his disciple, wrote profusely, as even in the above dialogue, Socrates considers that written words have one use, and that is to remind one who knows of their true import: Socrates. He who thinks, then, that he has left behind him any art in writing, and he who receives it in the belief that anything in writing will be clear and certain, would be an utterly simple person, and in truth ignorant of the prophecy of Ammon, if he thinks written words are of any use except to remind him who knows the matter about which they are written. So Socrates here is giving a partial description of how our Vaisnava tradition ascertains the objective meaning of Vedic literature: we do this by referring to the words of guru, the words of sadhus, and the words of sastra: Srila Narottama dasa Thakura says, sadhu-sastra-guru-vakya, cittete kariya aikya. One should accept a thing as genuine by studying the words of saintly people, the spiritual master and the sastra. The actual center is the sastra, the revealed scripture. If a spiritual master does not speak according to the revealed scripture, he is not to be accepted. Similarly, if a saintly person does not speak according to the sastra, he is not a saintly person. The sastra is the center for all. (Caitanya Caritamrita 20.352 purport) In this regard, it is very interesting to note that the verse dharmam tu saksad-bhagavata pranitam was spoken by Yamajara to the Yamadutas, after they inquired from him about their failed attempt to arrest Ajamila. The Yamadutas in their debate with the Visnudutas actually defended their actions by citing Vedic literature, but the Visnudutas established a superior conclusion based on the same Vedic literature. So then Yamaraja recommends to the Yamadutas that to understand Vedic knowledge, they must accept the parampara system. Srila Prabhupada explains thus: Krishna says to Arjuna, "Because you are My very dear friend, I am explaining to you the most confidential religion." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [bg. 18.66] "Give up all other duties and surrender unto Me." One may ask, "If this principle is very rarely understood, what is the use of it?" In answer, Yamaraja states herein that this religious principle is understandable if one follows the parampara system of Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, the four Kumaras and the other standard authorities. (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.3.20 - 21 purport) So this is the parampara system: what guru says must be supported by sastra, and must be supported by the words of the recognized acaryas in the disciplic succession. Therefore, "Vedic Authority," which can be called sabda (literally means "word" or "words") specifically refers to three sources of information: the words of guru, the words of saintly persons and the words of sastra. Samsaya - Doubt There are two other broad categories regarding the acquirement of knowledge, and they are pratyaksa (sense perception) and anuman (inference). However, as these two methods are based exclusively on the material energy, they are considered inferior to sabda (Vedic authority) because sabda ultimately is not a product of the material energy. Even if a soul is not conditioned, exclusive reliance on pratyaksa and anuman is insufficient to obtain perfect information even about material phenomenon. It is this lack of information, or the perception of at least two or more seemingly mutually incompatible perceptions in the same object, that causes samshaya, or doubt. For example, if one sees his own image in a mirror, information obtained from the sense of sight would inform one that there is another person within the object perceived, perhaps with qualities identical to ones own self. But if one tries to touch the mirror, expecting to apprehend the same tactile qualities one might expect an object with the qualities ascribed by our sense of sight, then, if we do not have prior knowledge as to what a mirror is, we may be put into doubt as to what a mirror actually is: the image looks identical to ourself but the touch is like that of flat glass. So this is how doubts arise: there may be conflicting perceptions between pratyaksa and pratyaksa (as in the example of the mirror), between pratyaksa and anuman (a conflict between a sensory perception and an inference which we know is correct about the same object), between anuman and anuman (two inferences in the same object which may seem incompatible), between pratyaksa and sabda (e.g. empirically ascertained distances of the planets versus distances given in scripture), and between anuman and sabda. For example, since women can and do most worldly occupations with felicity equal to that of men, we can infer that the intelligence of women, as a class, is equal to that of men as a class. However, Vedic authority says women as a class are less intelligent than men. This is an example of a doubt which arises from conflict between evidence derived from anuman and evidence derived from sadbda. One last kind of doubt is a doubt between sabda and sabda. Arjuna, for example, was overcome by a doubt regarding his duty. On the one hand, his prescribed duty was to kill the enemy, and on the other hand, it is sinful to kill one's family members. Therefore, Arjuna was put into doubt. Resolving Doubts and the Nature of Vedic Literature As doubts represent an absence of knowledge at some level, resolving doubts must then require additional information that transforms what we may perceive as seemingly mutually incompatible attributes in the same object into a sufficient understanding of their paradoxical nature. When we come to know of the reflective qualities of a mirror, then we dispel our doubts about the image we perceive but feel as flat glass. However, we can still question whether or not our perceptions, or even the knowledge about what is a mirror can be questioned. We can question our perceptions, inferences, ad infinitum: "How do I know this is true? How do I know your proof of this is valid? How do I know your proof of your proof is valid?" etc... This would represent an infinite regress of syllogisms that never terminates in a premise that itself needs no further proof. Therefore, Aristotle reasoned that there can be no knowledge without axioms, or self-evident truths that themselves need no proof: In some cases admission of the fact must be assumed, in others comprehension of the meaning of the term used, and sometimes both assumptions are essential. (Aristotle, "Posterior Analytics") Vedic Authority, in particular sastra, is such a set of axioms. Of course, Vedic knowledge has three divisions called prasthana-traya: sruti-prasthana, smrti-prasthana and nyaya prasthana: According to learned scholars, there are three different sources of knowledge, which are called prasthana-traya. According to these scholars, Vedanta is one of such sources, for it presents Vedic knowledge on the basis of logic and sound arguments. In the Bhagavad-gita (13.5) the Lord says, brahma-sutra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaih: "Understanding of the ultimate goal of life is ascertained in the Brahma-sutra by legitimate logic and argument concerning cause and effect." Therefore the Vedanta-sutra is known as nyaya-prasthana, the Upanisads are known as sruti-prasthana, and the Gita, Mahabharata and Puranas are known as smrti-prasthana. All scientific knowledge of transcendence must be supported by sruti, smrti and a sound logical basis. (Caitanya Caritamrita Adi 7.106 purport) One may argue that this is only in regard to knowledge of transcendence, not the mundane world. But Vedic literature also gives information about the mundane world because, although on one level we can differentiate between the mundane and the transcendent, the mundane still has its ontological existence based in the transcendent, because everything is an emanation of Krishna. Therefore, Vedic literature covers topics related to the physical world because it is related to the transcendent. There is a good reason for this too. The Vedic literature exists to deliver the conditioned souls from maya: maya-mugdha jivera nahi svatah krsna-jnana jivere krpaya kaila krsna veda-purana "The conditioned soul cannot revive his Krishna consciousness by his own effort. But out of causeless mercy, Lord Krishna compiled the Vedic literature and its supplements, the Puranas." (Caitanya Caritamrita 20.122) And because the conditioned souls are enmeshed in the material world, even (most of) those who join ISKCON, it behooves them to understand how the material world works so as to be able to take advantage of it, or to avoid the pitfalls associated with its various configurations: sambhutim ca vinasam ca yas tad vedobhayam saha vinasena mrtyum tirtva sambhutyamrtam asnute "One should know perfectly the Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna and His transcendental name, form, qualities and pastimes, as well as the temporary material creation with its temporary demigods, men and animals. When one knows these, he surpasses death and the ephemeral cosmic manifestation with it, and in the eternal kingdom of God he enjoys his eternal life of bliss and knowledge." (Sri Isopanisad Text 14) Therefore, Pariksit Maharaja inquired from Sukadeva Goswami about the composition of the universe. This brings us to one of our controversies, the disagreement between planetary distances in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Before we discuss the specifics of this, it should be understood, at least theoretically, that Vedic literature represents a set of axioms, or authoritative information, about the mundane world and transcendental nature. Furthermore, since this information itself is apurusaya, the information presented therein is not subject to fault. Planetary Distances: Material Science vs. Vedic Authority Originally, this debate on Vedic knowledge about the material world versus the knowledge of material scientists took on the form, "Did Srila Prabhupada make mistakes"? However, Srila Prabhupada describes himself in the following way: If personally I have any credit in this matter, it is only that I have tried to present Bhagavad-gita as it is, without any adulteration. (Bhagavad-gita, Preface) So Srila Prabhupada is simply trying to present Vedic literature "As It Is". Therefore, a doubt as to whether or not Srila Prabhupada was mistaken in his conclusions regarding planetary distances and other aspects of the material world is actually a doubt about the authenticity of Vedic literature itself. It should be remembered that Vedic literature is a set of axioms, or self-evidential truths about our world. At this time in Kali-yuga, the conclusions of the material scientists are similarly accepted as self-evidential truths. As one of the devotees arguing that the authority of Vedic literature does not extend to the material world has said: "If one wants to find out the distance to the moon, he should ask an astronomer, not the guru." (Trust Him, or Whim?) Of course, this isn't simply a matter of authority only. Material scientists also are not making everything up that they say. They have their means of measurement and calculations, etc, which may not be accessible to the general public, but it doesn't mean they have no validity. (It also doesn't mean that their conclusions are 100% correct, either.) And because material scientists have introduced technologies that demonstrate the validity of of their theories and which the common man utilizes, the common man views the opinions of the scientists as beyond reproach. However, the world isn't all that it seems. And if we accept the premise that the mundane senses are imperfect and not fully capable of perceiving the world as it is, then there is scope for a different view or model of the world than what empirical science has given us. The Vedic literature presents such an alternative view. But depending on what you accept as your self-evident truths, you will arrive at various and usually very different conclusions. Let us start out with two devotees who differ in what they accept as premises: Devotee A considers that in matters of the material world, material science is superior to Vedic Authority. Devotee B considers that Vedic Authority is superior to material science in matters pertaining to the material world. When Devotee A encounters contradictory descriptions of the material universe, she accepts the version of material science over the Vedic version. Consequently, she rejects certain portions of scripture as being valid. Now, this may seem like a benign decision on the surface, but it leads to the quick destruction of faith in even transcendental topics found in scripture. For example, according to the Vedas there is a Deity of the moon, and it is accepted by Vedic literature that there is life on the moon and that such life is more opulent than life here on this planet. Now, if we accept the version of material scientists that there is no life on the moon (what to speak of a Deity for that planet), then we must discount all the pastimes in Srimad Bhagavatam that include the Deity of the moon. And certainly we must eventually disown any belief in Krishna Himself, as he descended in this world through the Soma-vamsa. If the Vedas are mistaken about the moon, then why not Krishna, as He Himself has a family relationship with the moon. Since Vedic authority is considered faulty, then there is no reason to believe the rest of it either, independently of material science. That which cannot be confirmed by material science cannot be trusted. In the mind of Devotee A, Krishna becomes a colorful fiction that may have some basis in a mundane historical figure and nothing more. Devotee B, however, accepts Vedic literature as being apurusaya, being correct and without flaw. What he does is try to understand how Vedic literature practically describes the world he lives in. When he endeavors to do this, the result is something very wonderful, like the book entitled Vedic Cosmography. In the Questions and Answers section of this book, Sadaputa Prabhu very nicely addresses this issue: Q: The Vedic literature says the moon is higher than the sun. How can this be? A: In Chapter 22 of the Fifth Canto, the heights of the planets above the earth are given, and it is stated that the moon is 100,000 yojanas above the rays of the sun. In this chapter, the word "above" means "above the plane of Bhu-mandala." It does not refer to distance measured radially from the surface of the earth globe. In Section 4.b we show that if the plane of Bhu-mandala corresponds to the plane of the ecliptic, then it indeed makes sense to say that the moon is higher than the sun relative to Bhu-mandala. This does not mean that the moon is farther from the earth globe than the sun. For example, if point A is in a plane, B is 1,000 miles above the plane, and C is 2,000 miles above the plane, we cannot necessarily conclude that C is further from A than B is. Q: In Srimad Bhagavatam 8.10.38p, Srila Prabhupada says, "The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Srimad Bhagavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles." Doesn't this plainly say that the moon is farther from the earth than the sun? A: In the summary at the end of Chapter 23 of the Fifth Canto Srila Prabhupada says, "The distance from the sun to the earth is 100,000 yojanas." At 8 miles per yojana, this comes to 800,000 miles. We suggest that when Srila Prabhupada cites the modern Western earth-sun distance of 93,000,000 miles, he is simply making the point that if you put together the Bhagavatam and modern astronomy you get a contradictory picture. His conclusion is that one should simply accept the Vedic version, and he was not interested in personally delving into astronomical arguments in detail. Q: What is your justification for going into these arguments in detail? A: Srila Prabhupada ordered some of his disciples to do this for the sake of preaching. In a letter to Svarupa Damodara dasa dated April 27, 1976, Srila Prabhupada said, "Now our Ph.D.'s must collaborate and study the 5th Canto to make a model for building the Vedic Planetarium.. So now all you Ph.D.'s must carefully study the details of the 5th Canto and make a working model of the universe. If we can explain the passing seasons, eclipses, phases of the moon, passing of day and night, etc., then it will be very powerful propaganda." In this regard, he specifically mentioned Svarupa Damodara dasa, Sadaputa dasa, and Madhava dasa in a letter to Dr. Wolf-Rottkay dated October 14, 1976. Q: If the distance from the earth to the sun is 800,000 miles, how can this be reconciled with modern astronomy? A: This distance is relative to the plane of Bhu-mandala. The distance from the center of Jambudvipa to the orbit of the sun around Manasottara Mountain is 15,750,000 yojanas according to the dimensions given in the Fifth Canto. This distance lies in the plane of Bhu-mandala and comes to 126,000,000 miles at 8 miles per yojana and 78,750,000 miles at 5 miles per yojana. Since values for the yojana ranging from 5 to 8 miles have been used in India, this distance is compatible with the modern earth-sun distance of 93,000,000 miles. Q: Using radar and lasers, scientists have recently obtained very accurate estimates of the earth-moon distance. This distance is about 238,000 miles. How do you reconcile this with Vedic calculations? A: According to the Surya-siddhanta, the distance from the earth globe to the moon is about 258,000 miles (see Section 1.e). This is in reasonable agreement with the modern value. Q: If the moon is 258,000 miles from the earth globe, then how can it be 100,000 yojanas above the sun? This seems hard to understand, even if the latter distance is relative to the plane of Bhu-mandala. A: This question is answered in detail in Section 4.b, and the reader should specifically study Tables 8 and 9 in that section. Briefly, we propose the following: The heights of the planets from Bhu-mandala correspond to the maximum heights of the planets from the plane of the ecliptic in the visible solar system. This correspondence is approximate because the Fifth Canto gives the viewpoint of the demigods, whereas in modern astronomy and the jyotisa sastra the viewpoint is that of ordinary humans. In summary, we propose that the Fifth Canto description of the universe is broadly compatible with what we see. The differences are due to the difference in viewpoint between human beings and demigods. Thus, from the higher-dimensional perspective of a demigod, Bhu-mandala should be directly visible, and the relative positions of Bhu-mandala, the sun, and the moon should appear as described in the Fifth Canto. Since the questions and answers above are so straightforward, I won't comment further on them. But my point here is that because a devotee (Devotee B) accepted as a premise the infallibility of the Vedic literature, a very wonderful and authorized understanding about the material world emerged from his devotional attitude. Devotee A on the other hand not only missed out on a credible explanation that is in line with Vedic knowledge, but she also damaged her spiritual life. Two very different understandings results from attitude alone. Therefore, if we want to factually understand other aspects of material nature, like men's and women's roles in society, different races, etc., we have to first approach our questions with an attitude of faith in guru, sadhu and sastra, even if it seems that they are in error. This is because if there seems to be errors in conclusions based on guru-sadhu-sastra, it is because we are faulty in our perceptions and inferences-Vedic knowledge, by definition, is perfect.
  16. Here's the lowdown on WIndows. Why as innovation in the software market been strifed for the last 10 years? The GUI took off in DOS. It has not changed whatsoever since then. Would it take 15 years to upgrade to a new OPERATING System? Why don't we have a 3-d interface on our desktops by now. WHy hasn't the OS changed yet. WHy is innovation dead in computer history? This is not the automotive industry where there are only 2-3 companies building autoMOBILES. It's a computer realm with millions of software and hardware startups. One innovation, or for lack of better crosswords is change, is the LIEnux operating system. There is not much different on the outside or much inside. However it is a competitor, albeit differently. I don't want to getinto game theory or economic theory as to why competition creates innovative design but Windows is definitely not new. No reason we should be stuck with a stolen operating system on our desktops. Not a single computer manufacturer releases an alternate OS for the IBM-AT compatible style. My theory is that Bill Gates, aka as the king of operating system architect is behind all this. Not only this, but LINUX OS! Could he have sponsored an alternate OS to compete against Windows only to choke it at the end... Why not. It would swallow into the unmanifest competing organizations. Then kill the damn man. Defeat the OS. WHOLLOh. You own the operating system market, the application suite arena, and the single--application mondo. Chaitanyachandra. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 03-16-2002).]
  17. Sanderson Beck puts Mahatma Gandhi has 1/4 most influential people in history. PUTTING HIM # UNO in his LIst.
  18. Hopefully you will get credz for this one... One of the economic professors nvr listened to my theories. THis time he is screwed. DEMAND a. The ''desire to possess a commodity or make use of a service, combined with the ability to purchase it. b. The amount of a commodity or service that people are ready to buy for a given price... Supply The amount of a commodity available for purchase at a given price /or for /\ meeting demandz. The Theory:1. AN increase in supply levels the demand. THE-PROOF: a. An increase in supply raises (NOT decrease) the market equilibria 'price' (bhattacarya-patels' law of SUPPLY & DEMAND). b. The actual supply causes the demand to be leveled because of (due to) the perceived increase in supply. b1. A perceived increase in supply causes the mating-instinct (1/34 instincts) to decrease purchases (amt. commodity people are ready to buy). b1A. THe mating instinct is a bio-chemical synthesis of ...cntd: ---- AJAY SHAH former STUDENT of UTA in EE and transferreed to PRE-CS. Took ECO 304k with A professor who looks like Robin Will...! He did a good job of teaching him instinticly of course. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-09-2001).]
  19. Bush's World War and the Third Option of Peace with Justice In reaction to a horrible attack on the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon, United States President George W. Bush has proclaimed what amounts to an overt and covert war against any and all "terrorists" he considers enemies of the United States. He has also included as enemies in this war any person, group or government that "harbors" such terrorists. As if that was not enough, he has furthermore announced that everyone in the world must choose either to support the United States in this war against terrorists or be considered hostile by his regime. Noam Chomsky has noted that not even the Nazis went that far. Bush, in his inability to negotiate and his lack of flexibility and tolerance, sees the world in black and white with no middle ground. Although Bush may have much military power under his command, he is not God and cannot exclude a third alternative; neither is he competent nor authorized to be the judge and jury of terrorists. The nature of his misguided foreign policy was clearly indicated when he chose as his chief diplomat General Colin Powell, who is publicly known for his doctrine that employs the "use of overwhelming force." As a peace-loving person, I do not support any terrorists. That means I do not support government terrorism either, whether it be by "rogue states" or a super-power that acts like a rogue state. Thus I cannot support Bush's war against everyone in the world who will not take his side for which he has even used the misguided word "crusade." Perhaps the closest analogy to the campaign Bush is launching is the Gulf of Tonkin resolution that President Lyndon Johnson passed through the U. S. Congress in August 1964. That misguided escalation led to a horrible and useless war that killed more than a million Vietnamese and ended with American defeat in 1975. Since the United States has been bombing Iraq for ten years, has recently bombed a Sudan pharmaceutical factory, Afghanistan camps originally set up by the CIA, and Yugoslavia's infrastructure, and provides the weapons by which Israel attacks Palestinians, this proclamation by Bush must also be considered an escalation of on-going conflicts into a larger war. Ironically this war also has been stimulated and justified by demonizing an enemy (Osama bin Laden), who in fact was previously supported by the United States CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) in the American-financed war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. This continues the pattern of atrocities, just as the U. S. CIA supported Manuel Noriega before going to war against him and Panama. How many Americans recall or are aware that hundreds of innocent Panamanians were buried in mass graves in the war crimes perpetrated by President George Herbert Walker Bush? Bush Sr. also demonized Iraq's Saddam Hussein after he had been supported by United States weaponry and aid in Iraq's war against Iran, during which even chemical weapons were used against the Kurd minority. The United States has a disastrous record of helping to create Frankenstein monsters and then later rousing the people to go to war against them. Bush's war against everyone in the world who does not agree with him is doomed to defeat. How long it will last and how many people will be killed will depend on how long it takes for the American people to realize it is folly and act to change the policy of their government. The solution to terrorism is not military interventions that are and cause more terror but the peaceful resolution of conflicts, protection of all human rights, and compassionate concern for the welfare of all. In the dialect of history this misguided war may even accelerate the world toward its climactic struggle, which will be between those who use violence and those who courageously stand up for nonviolent and judicial solutions to human conflicts. Every person is free to decide to choose the peaceful alternative that insists on true justice under universal laws that are fair for everyone, not what is dictated by any one group, religion, ideology, nation, or alliance of nations through the use of military power. As individuals we can support those politicians who have the courage not to go along with the current war fever. We can refrain from paying taxes to support this misguided war. We can communicate with others to encourage them to join the third option of peace with justice that sooner or later will include all nations and peoples in the world. The current war psychosis that has pervaded the mass media and U. S. society will not be easy to heal and may take a long time and more hard experiences with foolish violence before most people learn the needed lessons. Those of us with clear heads and open hearts to the pain of all, not just to that of our fellow citizens, have a great responsibility to be beacon lights of hope for a better world based on love and justice, not violence backed by the power of wealth. We can pray for peace with good will to all. Let us also stand up and speak out for the way of love.
  20. "But how come a fundamental religion like Hinduism cant appreciate change by reasoning and still be robust in its practice with the wheels of time." I assure you that change by reasoning is by Hindus' for many an associative conceit. HAs most I know about the histiorama of Indian religion and debate, it starts with the middle class. The feedback loop then turns to the HIGH CLASS Brahmins. Who filter through the bullshit and the nectar. Applying sastric analysis, debating strategies, or perceptual thinking in they're total efforts to hand out agenda for the legendary civilization. SINCERELY<BHAKTA AJAY SHAH>
  21. As to why elders or a group of people would continue projecting ancient beliefs is not very complicated. That is what they believe as reality. As for applying logic and reason to this matter, they do not do that since they are in the process of doing the appropriate thing. Personally, where there is massive poverty in the one of the wealthiest and the most prolific nation on Bharatvarsh is seminal in someone's established prerogative. The skew in perceptive analysis is a cultural and economic purpose not a objective standard in judgement. BEST REGARDS, AJAY SHAH. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-08-2001).]
  22. Instead you have your head in your Butbutbut and your tail in the hAND AND head. SHAMU. [This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 11-08-2001).]
  23. Yes, who is the bee? And what is the honey?
  24. Evolution of Earth... http://www.golokdham.org/facts.html
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