stonehearted

I agree that this would be a nice note to close on. If we don't close, then a great new beginning. I've just arrived in Guanacaste, Costa Rica, where I'll spend some time helping with Tripurari Maharaja's project down here. The mood is sweet (therefore the name), and it would be nice to see the same audarya (generosity) here if we figure out how to keep going. Aloha.

Yep, that was a fantastic film. Nothing cheesy about it at all. I remain shocked that it didn't win. (Does anyone know which film did win?)

Thanks for this thread mahak. Whatever happens, I want to take a moment to mention how much I've enjoyed your posts, as well as much of the interaction here over the past few years. I'm happy to have "met" theist, gHari, Indulekha, and so many others. Despite the problems that have often arisen here and the trouble caused to JNdas and the others who have taken responsiblity for keeping these forums going, there has been so much more of real value.

Hmm . . . why did He call Hari das the namacharya?

Who said I find no fault in this? That's a bit of a reach, considering I've already expressed my alarm in a couple of different ways. Sometimes, Suchandra, you seem even crabbier than I. And you seem to have a real problem with me, for some reason. Kind of strange, since you don't know me at all. Sorry to have disturbed you so.

Jeez--pardon me! I just asked. I've never even hinted that I've heard everything; however, this is rather a startling quotation, and I'm surprised that it hasn't gotten around, even among ISKCON critics, hasn't showed up on any grouchy Web sites yet. And your efforts to put me down seem to have distracted you from answering my direct question: at which temple did he make this statement? Since you're unlikely to answer that question, I guess I'll take the hint and try not to bother you anymore.

Which temple? Did he say this in public? I have to say, I've been around ISKCON since 1969, and I've never heard this one before.

I guess I want to bump this, so Sucandra can tell us where this idea comes from.

Blasphemy! He is liberal, liberal, and only liberal. (He has no politics.) He gives away the most precious commodity for the least price: just a little faith. He has no interest in those other things, concerning people's inclination for gambling, sex, etc. What did He ask Jagai and Madhai? Stop your drinking? Stop your raping and whoring? Stop anything? Nope! Just "Please chant Krishna's holy names!" He's liberal and nothing else. Read Sri Chaitanya Bhagavat and Sri Chaitanya-charitamrita again and undergo a change of heart.

Whoa! I've never heard this one before, or anything like it, and I've been around a while. Now, you put these words in quotation marks, which means that you assert he spoke these exact words. My guess it that you're really paraphrasing something. I did a VedaBase search and got 0 hits. I know that the VedaBase, the "Complete" mp3 collection, etc. are, even all together, not complete. Can you tell us where and when Srila Prabhupada is supposed to have said this? It may also help if you were to share your source with us.

See? We agree! I'm not at all defensive. (More like offensive.) Your response just sounded like something we'd hear of Fox News Channel, from O'Reilly, maybe, or Savage. These guys are good enough at what they do to make a pile of money from it, but I wouldn't accept them (or Franken or any of the folks at that awful Air America Radio) as great thinkers. And as far as my conviction that "diplomacy will definitely work" goes, I never said any such thing. But it was ruled out a priori when Cheney's puppet created his cute little "Axis of Evil." (Sounds like something from a Myers flick.) C'mon, we seem to have made some progress with Kim (talk about your nuts). At least Ahmadinajad has some fashion sense. Let's hope not. Got a magic wand? Nothing to apologize for; it was my fault. Anyway, it sounds like we're not as far apart on this as someone may have thought earlier. Stay cool, AM.

In fact, you don't know me at all. In some ways I'm do doubt more "liberal" than you, and that's the result of many decades of carefully considering things, not some mindless reaction to one event or another. I'm well educated and spent nearly two decades teaching, among other things, critical thinking at colleges and universities in California and Hawaii. I've heard Michael Savage, and one would be tempted to think him mentally ill. The truth is more likely that he's a performer prone to exploit xenophobia and fear. Some people would call fandom, whether the object is Savage, Britney, Franken, or whoever, a mental disorder. But I wouldn't, as I'm kind of a fan of Lord Nityananda's. (And boy, is He liberal!) And I rather like gHari, too, although I wouldn't embarrass him by calling myself a fan. It's funny (well, odd)--when we build and test all sorts of weapons, it's some sort of service to God, but when someone we don't like does so, they have to be lunatics. I would sure prefer that someone else were running both the US and Iran (sure as hell not the shah or some other right-wing American puppet), but I think there are other ways to deal with him than all the saber-rattling, which we know will simply provoke him further. In fact, Hersh's point is that Bush's folks are doing just that--trying to provoke him. Bush thinks, as he has sometimes said, that God has chosen him for some sort of holy work here. Isn't that the same sort of nuttiness we hear from Iran's honchos? This stuff is all relative and, as you said earlier, has no real substance. My sense is that this particular forum is mostly a place for some folks to entertain themselves, and I apologize again for intruding.

No question. Talk about buying into cliches--this whole idea that "liberals" (that means anyone folks who call themselves "conservatives" don't agree with, I guess) hate America is so much bullsh*t, just as the stupid idea that all "conservatives" are Nazis. Some people just see failed policies as the stupid ideas they are. Does that show hatred of America? I think it shows disappointment in the country's leadership. Expressing that disappointment is patriotic. What do I know about patriotism? My people helped build this great country from the beginning and have been exploiting North America's resources (and any others we can get our hands on) for over 370 years. They're heroes of the revolution and served in every war we've been through Vietnam. We have a signature on the Declaration and the Constitution (although he had some misgivings, from what I've read). I did serve in the military during the Veitnam conflict, and I've paid taxes for many years. I think I have a right to express my opinion without its being denigrated as "buying in" to some party line. In fact, I've never registered with either of the two big parties. Never will. Moreover, I have hardly ever participated on this particular forum for the last several years. Why? Because complex issues get boiled down here to bumper stickers you could buy from Rush Limbaugh or Air America Radio. ugh. Just made a comment, friend.I'm not preaching to you or anyone else. Pardon me for intruding into your turf. Ciao.

Are you kidding? Are you among them? Some eager candidates perhaps, but not necessarily the best candidates. The facts on the ground are that O-3s (captains in the Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force, and Lieutenants in the Navy), who are the future of the officer corps and thus of the service, are leaving in droves for various reasons. Moreover, John McCain, candidate for Veteran in Chief, has worked in the US Senate against better benefits for vets. You're an energetic cheerleader, Bhaktajan. Have you ever served in the military?

I'd amend this to assert that whoever hasn't already written off the US as dangerous lunatics will join those who have.

Realist, I did not intend to hijack your thread, and my question was not meant rhetorically. I apologize for the digression I caused, but I do wonder whether Maharaja addressed the issue I raised.

I have Narayan Maharaja's edition and have read it a couple of times. (I've also listened to Tridandi Maharaja's recording quite a bit.) There's an edition by an ISKCON devotee, whose name I can't recall. Both are quite nice, and I enjoy reading them together sometimes. I feel I get deeper understanding from the differences in the translations. I don't know what will come of the translation the BBT has been fussing with for many years (don't remember who did that translation, either). But I agree that a really snazzy presentation would be nice. Prapanna-jivanamritam is pretty cool, but I worry about my grubby hands and that nice, white silk.

No, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding. I meant that, despite the fact that I know Srila Prabhupada wants his disciples to publish a good edition of Jaiva Dharma, the BBT has failed to do so because they haven't figured out what to do about the difference between ISKCON's official position and what the Thakura says in JD.

It's a joke! There's a big gap between Bhaktivinoda's discussion of the nature of the jiva is different from the official ISKCON/GBC version. BBT hasn't published this book, which I know Srila Prabhupada wanted out in a good English edition, because of this discrepancy.

Hmmm . . . maybe they should annotate it.

I'm not sure how accurate that assertion is. The Fords' money goes back 100 years, to the Model T Ford. There are money lines in Boston and New York that go back 300, 350 years. Heck, even the Rockefellers' and other robber barons' money is older than the Fords'. Anyway, these folks will do what they will do, and neither my carping nor yours will budge them an inch. I thought the original idea was to show the relationships between material and spiritual planetary systems according to Brihad-Bhagavatamrita.

Originally Posted by realist <o:p></o:p>Anyway, we continued to discus Prabhupada, the ‘miracle’ of Internet preaching, and the Jaiva dharma that ISKCON-BBT will eventually bring out. That Maharaj humbly explained that even though Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja have different teachings about the original position of the jiva, we are all devotees of Krsna Did Maharaja discuss how the BBT will deal with the sections of Jaiva Dharma that discuss that topic? Several yearrs ago, a senior editor at BBT asked my advice, and I told him that, if they intended to publish Bhaktivinoda Thakura's Jaiva Dharma,they ought to present the philosophy as he does. Apparently they still haven't figured that part out.

Here's one of the chapters from the ToC: Chapter-10: Spiritual category Osho Rajneesh – For stating that India is a spiritual vibe Maharshi Mahesh Yogi – For his hopping Nationalism Srila Prabhupad – A Semitic version of Hindu nationalism Sri Sri Ravishankar: For taking nationalism to the upper crest Mata Amrutananda Mayi – For her hugging spree Baba Ramdev – For being India’s first Hindu tele-evangelist Sai Baba – For a heady mix of religion, magic and nationalism U.G. Krishnamurthy – For the iconoclast gave a new definition Panduranga Shastri Athavale – For the Swadhyaya movement Dalai Lama – For acknowledging Hindu roots Pramukh Swamiji Maharaja - For setting up the world’s largest Temple Tarun Sagar – For continuing the legacy of Acharya Tulsi Asaram Bapu - For being politically incorrect Um, "Semitic version of Hindu nationalism"? I guess that's what we could expect from an Osho/Rajneesh-type "spiritual" hedonist.

Well said. Humility means constantly chanting. And if someone has committed some offense in chanting, the remedy is constant chanting. It may be helpful to study Siksastakam to better understand how dedication to chanting Hare Krishna both effects and reflects our spiritual progress. And in this age, there just isn't any chance of real progress, or happiness, without chanting. So, cbrahma, you clearly have some faith in chanting, so follow that faith, so it will grow, and don't give any attention to those who, for whatever reason, discourage you.

The latest I heard was the day before yesterday. The fire on the opposite mountain slowed down because the wind cooperated. The firefighters were able to make a fire break and start a backfire. So the fire ended up not jumping the creek. There are a couple of other fires on the mountain, one of which may still pose a threat, but things look good so far. I don't think the Deities and the cows have been returned yet because the threat still exists. Yes, Bija, you're right about the underbrush burning; it's a very healthy thing for the forest. Maharaja commented that if our forest were burned, we'd grow more grass and bring more cows.