stonehearted

No, we don't have it on tape (but we know how easily that can be manipulated--ever listen to the "appointment tapes" with really good audio equipment?) or in a book (who would write such a thing in one of his books, and if he did, it would just be another thing to roast the editors for). But I've known the woman from whom this statement came for over 40 years. This story hasn't changed one letter in those 40 years. We also have to note that such a statement is corroborated by his comments on Harsarani's poem, as well as by elevated sadhus such as Srila Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Puri Maharaja. It's not an isolated piece of evidence but part of a very sweet picture. I'd contend that he left a trail of hints. (Actually, not only would I contend so, but I have, haven't I?) And you don't see that as a BIG hint? I also have to say that he has been a bit more explicit in other devotees' "dreams." Keep at it, brother.

You callin' dolphins fat? You don't want to do that with surfers around here. That's right: surfing cowboys! I don't think you want to mess with us, beggar boy! Actually, the UF Gators have done pretty darned well, especially with Tebow around. God, have you seen the Gainesville area? There's so much blue and orange you could throw up. Anyway, back in cowboy loka . . .

Me, too. I was actually avoiding making the same remark Sukhada did: even though I know devotees interested in sakhya-bhava, I don't know anyone--aside from Srila Prabhupada--whose interest is stronger than Tripurari Maharaja's. And you should see him with the cows!

I don't know if I've mentioned this here before, but the devotees used to make cowboy shirts for Srila Prabhupada. We even had some in the old Honolulu brahmachari ashram in '70 and '71.

GAAAAHHHH!!!!! That's just an indication of how contaminating my company is. When devotees meet or see most other devotees they hear songs by Bhaktivinoda Thakura, or Narottama das Thakura. When they see me, they think of some awful Beach Boys song. And that started the day after I was initiated. Balabhadra was the first to sing . . .

Where the heck is the rotflmao emoticon here? This is the wackiest, most off-base response I could imagine. Anyone who has read much of Tripurari Maharaja's writing can see how this would be the response on Opposite Day. And anyone who would infer anything like this would be dead wrong. I don't think there's more to say that's appropriate in public, except that they should go back and see if they can discern the tone in his remarks about sakhya bhava. I'm almost glad you brought this up, because it would sure never have occurred to me!

Okay, okay--Sukhada posted that note from Narasimha Maharaja in response to SY's wondering out loud how he might respond. I didn't post that, or the couple of other notes I had from him, because I hadn't yet asked for permission to do so. (If he had posted a comment on the page, which he says he intends to do today or tomorrow, I would have shared that.) Apparently Sukhada has that permission. In any case, this is certainly not the kind of controversy I'd like to see in this thread? In this thread I'd prefer that we move on to topics more related to the content and intention of the booklet. Anyone interested in pursuing the history of the problems between two of our missions is certainly free to do so on another thread. (Yeah, someone's going to chime in that I need to be realistic about the culture of AF. What's new?)

I present it strictly as the subjective perspective of his disciples. I don't assert it categorically, so it doesn't need to be proven. Some readers will find my analysis convincing, whereas others will not. I didn't write this to make converts. Rather, I wrote it to glorify Srila Prabhupada, to explore the breadth of what our sampradaya has to offer, and to give heart to those who, in their spiritual maturity, may not find themselves excited about approaching their eternal inner life as, as you have put it sometimes, preadolescent girls. Nowhere do I present my argument as airtight and exclusive of any other perspective.

It's clear to me from the context that gopi-jana is a generic term for the residents of Vrindavan, at least here.

I address that, too. We have evidence of this happening going back to Syamananda Prabhu. Perhaps a more interesting question (which I don't examine in the booklet) is how a sampradaya that started with several lines of sakhya-rasa gurus became, according to some, exclusively for madhurya-bhava. In Jaiva Dharma we see one guru instructing two disciples who have different bhavas. It's not new. It may be extraordinary, but it's sure not new.

I address that in the booklet, at least with regard to the Gopala mantra.

Ouch!

Srila Prabhupada's father's name was Gour Mohan De. If you'd like to find out a little about him, you might enjoy reading the first few chapters of Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita.

Nice. Of course, I discuss this a little in the booklet.

If I'm not mistaken, this Atul Krishna, having left Harikesh (?) for Narayana Maharaja, later left NM for Ananta das babaji (to be then known as Madhavananda das). More recently he left Adb to become some sort of Buddhist bhikku, and now is just a self-described vagabond named Ananda wandering around Asia. Ah, well. Anyway, I'd be grateful for any posts responding to the substance of the booklet.

Tripurari Maharaja and I have both gotten very positive responses from Narasimha Maharaja. He first worried that the booklet may generate unnecessary controversy. But he decided that he likes it enough that, if we were to get it printed, he would see that it's distributed widely, including at Radha-Damodara temple. His comments were very encouraging, to say the least.

Thanks for taking the trouble to straighten that out, Sukhada. I thought about writing to ask him, too, but I don't like to bother him. I think anyone who has any questions about his history or his ideas will find him straightforward in his responses. Now, if there is more discussion of the substance of the booklet, let's go!

I have no doubt that he has never visited this board. And rather harsh is a bit euphemistic, I think. Even this thread, meant for glorifying Srila Prabhupada, has degenerated into silly, 7th-grade name calling. If we can't discuss this topic civilly, I'll ask the admin to close it.

Well, there you go. I'm not engaged in any speculation here. I'm just following the evidence, and it's the realization of Srila Sridhara Maharaja, who is a realized soul and close associate of Srila Prabhupada's throughout their lives as disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, that this is indeed, along with the other evidence he cites, as well as the other evidence I present in my little booklet, of an affinity for sakhya bhava. If there's real evidence of something different, let's bring it out and drink the nectar of the katha of our divine master's lila and charitra. Would you suggest, then, that Srila Prabhupada is directly Nityananda Prabhu, or Baladeva? I wouldn't. I remember the stir that such suggestions caused around ISKCON in 1970--and I was living in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, as far away from land as anyone can get! Therefore, there's no chance of entering the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Krishna in Vrindavan without first attaining the mercy of Sri Nityananda Balarama, whose lotus feet are as soothing as the rays of millions of moons. Dayal Nitai, Dayal Nitai, Nitai-Gaura Haribol!

I'm waiting to see Narasimha Maharaja's response to this article.

Sure, it's a village culture, and everyone knows everyone else; everyone is someone's cousin. Life was like that on the Big Island. But where are the pastimes of the manjaris wandering through the forest with Krishna all day, running here and there, rolling in the pastures, etc.? That just isn't consonant with the manjaris' character. Nor is approaching Krishna directly in any case.

Oh, yeah! There seems to be a bit of Madhumangala in Srila Prabhupada's repeated entreaties to his disciples: If you give me laddus and kachauris, then I will bless you! However, as I pointed out, part jokingly, Madhumangala's deal with Krishna might have been more straightforward: bring me some laddus and kachauris, and I'll put a word in with Radharani. And I'll tell you this: I'm a pretty sophisticated reader, and I have always seen in Prabhupada's descriptions of Madhumangala's antics a special delight.

Actually, Baladeva would probably be a little shy about discussing such a thing. It's said that when Balarama, going up a path on Govardhana, sees sparkley dust, he thinks that Radharani must be with Krishna, and, out of shyness, He turns around, not wanting to intrude. The same is true when Radharani sees sparkley dust; She thinks that Balarama must be with Krishna, so She turns around out of shyness. It sounds, as I point out, more like Subal, who often gives Krishna advice about His romantic life. Bhai means brother, but guys often call each other Brother, or, in the US, Buddy.

There's no question of such manipulation. It is in fact the polar opposite of our real position, which is to accept our essential identity as Krishna's eternal servant. Bingo! What we see in both the prayers Srila Prabhupada wrote on the Jaladuta is saranagati in the extreme. Srila Jiva Goswami says in Bhakti-sandarbha (I think it's Bhakti-sandarbha) that of the six angas of saranagati, goptrtve-varanam (acceptance of Krishna as our sole maintainer) is the svarupa lakshana, the core principle. And in these prayers Srila Prabhupada expresses his utter dependence on Krishna. What a glorious example! And I can tell you that considering all this evidence together has enlivened me in my attempt at surrender. It would only be through such surrender that any interest in Srila Prabhupada's, or my own, inner life would make any sense. I haven't written this to encourage any of us to contemplate our own navels, but to see how broad the Krishna consciousness movement is, how magnanimous Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu--and Srila Prabhupada--are, and to encourage us to share that gift with others.

Srila Prabhupada called that song "Prayer to the Lotus Feet of Krishna." The entire song is a direct address to Krishna, including that opening stanza. Srila Sridhara Maharaja certainly understood Bengali better than Jayascinandana, and the same goes for the several native Bengalis I've asked about that line. The verdict has been unanimous: that bhai is singular. The plural is different. And that bhai addresses Krishna, as does everything in the poem. What we see is that Srila Prabhupada, in utter humility, sees himself as unfit to carry out the task given him. It is, after all, enormous, unthinkable. No one had done it; even those sent by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati to England in the '30s had very limited success. So he makes a bargain with Krishna, whom he sees as his friend (the manjaris aren't going to roll in the pastures and chase cows with Krishna): my gurudeva gave me this order, and I clearly cannot pull it off on my own. But if you help me, then I'll certainly succeed, and, by implication, my gurudeva may put in a good word for you to Radharani, so you will become fortunate. With this clear understanding, the nature of the song becomes quite clear, it seems to me.