Gauracandra

I once heard that Srila Prabhupada would sing "Jaya Radha Madhava" before the classes because it contained everything in the spiritual world - Radha, Krsna, the gopis, Mother Yasoda.... thus is encapsulated everything that we were seeking. Gauracandra

I've been meaning to ask this but have forgotten to post. Do all the Vaisnava sampradayas use the same mantras when preparing the tilak, as well as the same names of Visnu when applying the tilak to the body? If not, what names do they apply etc.... Gauracandra

I agree there are a lot of things we haven't experienced that we believe in besides God. A coworker and I were having a similar discussion a few months ago and we also concluded much the same thing. At the same time an individual may have a spiritual experience, which he may not even be able to relate in words, much less prove. Should we dismiss that person's experiences? I don't think so. Many people have had near death experiences, seen their subtle bodies separate from the gross physical body, and then return. Many of these people experience profound, life changing effects from such an event. It totally changes their view of life. I saw one program on this subject and some scientist was saying that it was only a physical response. He said that man evolved over time a reactive response to make death as painless as possible. This is why many people when they die see beautiful images, feel wonderful and free, see the tunnel of light etc.... At first, I was like ok that kind of makes sense. Then I realized "Whats he talking about". In order to evolve a trait you have to be able to transmit your genetic code to the next generation. If you are on your deathbed, about to die, there is no way to distinguish between those humans thousands of years ago who had this genetic trait and those that didn't. When they died their genetic code would go with them. Thus out-of-body experiences cannot be explained as an evolutionary mechanism to make death less traumatic. Those who have such experiences can't prove it scientifically that it happened, and yet their lives are often profoundly affected. Gauracandra

History is written by the winners. If Hitler had won World War II we'd all be goosestepping to work each day. Right now Western civilization has won - atleast materially it is the wealthiest in the world. As such, history is judged from a Eurocentric point of view. Even the accomplishments of India are no longer the accomplishments of India. Sanskrit, the arts, literature, philosophy of India were all written by white european men - that is, if you believe the Aryan Invasion theory (which I don't). Under this system, India has been stripped of its glory, but even worse is that someone else is taking the credit for that glory. The Aryan Invasion theory postulates that Europeans came into India and brought civilization to it. Never mind that Indian history books (Mahabharat, Ramayan, Vedic scriptures) never mention such an invasion. As Europeans started studying India in the late 1800's they came to many startling revelation such as the linguistic similarities between Sanskrit and European languages. Now they couldn't accept that perhaps Indian civilization travelled upwards to Europe (after all white people were the bringers of civilization not the recipients) and so they postulated the "Aryan Invasion Theory". But as they started to read Indian history books they found timelines that conflicted with their own. After all from a Christian perspective the world is only 5000 years old. So they began to scrunch bits and pieces of Indian history into this 5000 year time frame. As such there has been a distorted view of Indian civilization, its contributions to the world, its art, language, and philosophy. But we should remember that while history is written by the winners, the winners often don't stay up too long. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Egypt, England - all of these countries once ruled the world. Where are they today? Certainly not the world powers they once were. Now history is being written by the U.S.A., and once we get lazy and decadent we'll fall also. Gauracandra

Welcome Dubeyrakesh. Just to give you some hope that Hinduism won't perish I wanted to share a few thoughts. I have often considered how it is that India has survived so long after being invaded first by muslims and then by the British. The conclusion I came up with is that India's religious structure is kind of like water - you can cut it but it immediately re-forms and remains whole. The very diffuse nature of the guru system, while leading to less focus, also makes it impossible to dissipate. There have been so many cultures (say in the "new" world, for instance) that have disappeared. Why? Because they were heirachical. Cut off the head and the body perishes. India has never had this heirarchical structure. I work for a very large U.S. company (30,000 employees) and recently our CEO made an interesting point about the future. He said "In the past, it used to be the big would crush the small, and so we could do anything we want. In the future, it will be the fast who will eat the slow". With the advent of the internet people like you, and me, and the rest of the good folks in these forums can get together and discuss various topics. So I think the old heirarchical systems will break down, whether it be heirarchical communication systems, business systems, or religious systems - and Hinduism with its very fluid nature will once again fit nicely in. Atleast these are my hopes. Take care. Gauracandra

I have often wondered if the story of Dwaraka being submerged in the ocean was the basis for the story of Atlantis. Krsna said that now that his pastimes were over, that Dwaraka would be submerged into the ocean. I don't know if the archaelogical finds are the "real" Dwaraka but they are interesting. Unfortunately, due to Hollywood and comic books discussion of Atlantis is often dismissed. But the original story was laid out first by Plato thousands of years ago in two of his works "Timaeus" and "Critias". According to Plato the story is true and the events took place 9000 years before him. One of his distant relatives named Solon was traveling in Egypt and an Egyptian priest told him the story. From Solon, it passed onto Dropides, from Dropides to Critias I, from Critias I to Critias II (Plato's grandfather) who then related the story to Plato. Some believe that Plato made up the story as a morality tale of unchecked greed and hedonism. I have read, not in detail but in general, Timeaus and Critias and they bear a striking resemblance to Vedic concepts. Timeaus deals mostly with creation and less with Atlantis, but talks for instance about how God created the universe out of Earth, Water, Fire, and Air. It discusses the spirit of man and SPECIFICALLY details the breaking up of society into classes of teachers, warriors, agriculturalists, and laborers. It is clear, no interpretation on my part. Also, "Critias" outlines the same system which was said to have been given to them by the Goddess as a way of organizing society. I have also read (unrelated to Atlantis) that in Greek and Roman times there was a fairly sizable "cult" that worshipped the Vedic god Mithra. So I think that Greek civilization and Vedic civilization were united in some fashion, though I don't think we know all the details. Gauracandra

Animesh, I can tell you I've only had one similar experience. For many years had I given up any chanting. Then about 3 1/2 years ago I was at a real low point (just lost my job and such) and it was Gaur Purnima (the appearance day of Sri Caitanya). I decided that day, with real sincerity, to actually try His process. I fasted all day, and drank no water even. I sat in one room and started chanting. I decided to fix my mind on the image of Krsna, but my mind was so unfocused I couldn't do this. So instead I rotated my focus onto different pictures ie. for one split second I'd have one picture of Krsna, then another, then another etc.... This way even though my mind wasn't steady I kept it on Krsna. In addition to this, in my thoughts I started probing deeper and deeper into my spiritual life, asking Krsna for help, seeing my greed, vanity etc.... After about 2 hours my mind actually became fixed. I then held the same image in my mind for the rest of the day, but with a slight twist. I meditated upon Krsna's feet, then slowly moved up, and up as time kept passing. Eventually I reached the face. The image I had in my mind was a deity form of Krsna. As I was meditating on the face, a really bizarre thing happened which really scared me. The eyes of the deity image started to move, while the rest of the deity body remained as a deity body. The eyes became so clear to me and so real. At this point, everything turned black, and it was like a door was opening, and I could see a bright white light coming out. It was so bright that I wanted to close my eyes but couldn't as I was already in meditation. The light kept getting bigger, I can't remember how to describe this though. But I started getting a bit frightened, I couldn't feel my body and thought if I continued I may not be able to return. As soon as I had this thought, it was like I was shaken out of this zone, and I opened my eyes back in my room. About 8 hours had passed of nonstop chanting. The reason I think this happened to me was for two reasons 1) This was the first time I actually had sincerity in my chanting because I was at a low point and 2) because of this low point, as Jndas said, as a form of encouragement to get back to chanting these may have been revealed to me. I have never told anyone this story before, but thought it could ad to the discussion. Some people will say that this was a result of physical deprivation (no food, no water) and that this was just a biological reaction. Personally I don't think so. I have never had any experience like this before or since. Perhaps my sincerity hasn't been there. But the rest of the day even though I was physically weak, I felt great mentally. Gauracandra

I was just watching a U.S. entertainment program called Access Hollywood. As you may know, several months ago an insane man broke into George Harrison's home and stabbed him in the chest. It went so deep that it even punctured his lung. What was just reported on this program was that during this attack George Harrison called out "Hare Krsna Hare Krsna" hoping to calm the mind of this insane person. George Harrison, the former Beatle, was introduced to Srila Prabhupada by Shyamasundara dasa in the 1960s. He had a very intimate and private relationship with Srila Prabhupada and performed alot of service in helping Srila Prabhupada (such as publishing the first edition of "Krsna Book"). On the video series "Memories of Srila Prabhupada" number 27, Shyamasundar das says that today George is VERY spiritually advanced and completely at ease with life. He mentions that every day George Harrison chants Hare Krsna mantra japa. I must be honest. If a stranger were to break into my little apartment and attack me with a knife, I honestly don't think I would chant "Hare Krsna Hare Krsna". And thats a sad commentary on me. It is stated that if at the end of one's life one calls out to Hari then you will be delivered. I think the fact that George Harrison had Krsna on his mind even at a point of impending death speaks volumes about his spiritual strength. Hare Krsna Gauracandra

This post is an offshoot of a comment made by Animesh regarding the Vedic understanding of the universe. Now before I go any further let me state up front that I am not a physicist, nor do I fully understand the theory of relativity etc... but I thought this post might be kind of fun to think about. Now as I understand, Einstein developed his theory of relativity based on a thought experiment. He figured "What would happen if two people were to see each other sitting on two trains running parrallel to each other" (ie. each person is in a separate train and looks out the window to see the other person). His conclusion was that not matter how fast the trains were going, to the two people sitting there the trains would move at a speed relative to each other. If both trains were moving at the same speed it would appear that the passengers were sitting still, even if the trains were in fact moving at hundreds of miles per hour. To cut quickly to the chase, he concluded that as you approached the speed of light, time slows down. If you were to travel the speed of light and returned to planet earth, what seemed like only a moment would in fact be perhaps thousands of years later earth time. Now comes the spiritual part. Why does the soul not age? Maybe because the soul is moving faster than the speed of light, and as such time slows down, and at some point time ceases to exist. The soul is moving faster than light, and as such time disappears. The argument against things ever approaching the speed of light is that they have mass. With mass comes the pull of gravity (which prevents light travel) as well as friction etc... But the soul is infinitesimal, has no mass and thus is not affected by friction nor gravity. Now two souls in the spiritual world could still interact with each other. If two souls were moving at the "speed of soul" as opposed to the speed of light, relative to each other they would appear to be standing still, or moving etc.... Thus the soul is beyond time because it is moving faster than the speed of light. Anyways, this is just something to think about. I think it makes sense but really I'm just having fun thinking about something I really could never comprehend. Gauracandra

Haribol Animesh, I agree completely with you. Also, I think it is important that somehow a trust fund should be set up in which many denominations and organizations set aside money strictly for the cultural preservation of India. There are many great temples that are thousands of years old, bathing ghats, art etc... that will be lost without some proactive measures to preserve that cultural heritage. Government can do some but I think privately it would be great to unite those who are interested in such matters to preserve that heritage. With regard to science it is interesting what you have said. I once saw a program with the famous astronomer Carl Sagan who said that of all the religions of the world only Hinduism comes close to accurately dating the age of the universe. He then said it was just a coincidence but was very interested in the ideas of kalpas, and life of Brahma etc.... Also, the idea right now of multiple universes is very common but that is just a recent development within say the last 50-100 years. Think about the fact that thousands of years ago people had these ideas. You are also correct that today the idea that the universe is expanding and will one day contract only to expand again is found in Vedic literature. There is also the idea of relative time. Somewhere I read a story (maybe on this website) where someone visited Brahma, and Brahma told him "You have spent only a moment in my abode, yet when you return all your family for many generations will have died". This fits entirely with Einsteins theory of relativity. As you go faster towards the speed of light, time slows down. If you return to earth, what seemed like a moment will have been many years (if you've seen the movie Contact (the book by the way was written by Carl Sagan) this point is explained. Anyways, I'm starting to ramble. Haribol. Gauracandra

Hey Melvin, that is pretty funny especially since it really happened. Gauracandra

Is there a Vedic view of dreams? Personally I have no problem in believing that dreams reveal something about the current situation of the dreamer. I've personally had dreams, which upon introspection, have revealed personal struggles and feelings etc.... I have also had dreams which have incorporated aspects of experiences I have had that day etc.... So to me, I don't think it unreasonable that in a very fluid, free form sort of way, dreams can reveal some truth to the dreamer, which if he were awake he may be unwilling to confront and accept. I know there are books that claim they can "interpret" your dreams, but I tend to think of these as "new age nonsense" along with "pop astrology" etc... So is there a Vedic view of dreams? Is it considered some sort of heightened sense of reality? Curious dreamers want to know Gauracandra

Last weekend I saw the movie The Legend of Bagger Vance. I wrote up a formal review and submitted it to the editor who has since posted it on the front page here at Indiadivine. It is very rare that a movie on spirituality is made, much less one that is based on the Bhagavad Gita. If anyone has any comments on how I can improve my reviewing skills I would appreciate any feedback. If other such movies come out in the future I will try to review them so any pointers would be appreciated. Gauracandra

It is clear that Viji chose not to read Srila Prabhupada’s purport to this verse which states: “It is clearly declared here by the Supreme Lord that in devotional service there is no distinction between the lower and higher classes of people. In the material conception of life there are such divisions, but for a person engaged in transcendental devotional service to the Lord there is not. Everyone is eligible for the supreme destination.” Srila Prabhupada’s view was simple – everyone, regardless if they are a woman, a brahmana, a member of the so called “untouchables”, a westerner, Everyone was eligible to attain Krsna through loving service. Srila Prabhupada in fact gave his women devotees quite a bit of freedom relative to the orthodox “Hindu” view. For instance, in “Hindu” society, a woman is considered impure due to her monthly menstrual cycle. As such she has no access to act as a pujari. Yet Srila Prabhupada allowed his female disciples to take up such direct service as acting as pujaris for the deities. Why did he do this? In fact he was criticized by many traditional “hindus” for this. The reason he did this was because he wanted to encourage everyone, including western women, to engage in devotional service. Everyone is welcome to serve the Lord. Now it is very easy to take a very western view of the world, and pretend that the Vedic scriptures put men and women on the same platform. But they don’t. Anyone who has ever read even parts of the Manu Samhita will clearly be able to determine that this is not some post-feminist book on rules and ethics. The following are some examples, agree or disagree, of the Vedic view of women taken from the Manu Samhita: Chapter 2 213. It is the nature of women to seduce men in this (world); for that reason the wise are never unguarded in (the company of) females. 214. For women are able to lead astray in (this) world not only a fool, but even a learned man, and (to make) him a slave of desire and anger. Chapter4 41. For the wisdom, the energy, the strength, the sight, and the vitality of a man who approaches a woman covered with menstrual excretions, utterly perish. 44. A Brahmana who desires energy must not look at (a woman) who applies collyrium to her eyes, has anointed or uncovered herself or brings forth (a child). 57. Let him not sleep alone in a deserted dwelling; let him not wake (a superior) who is sleeping; let him not converse with a menstruating woman; nor let him go to a sacrifice, if he is not chosen (to be officiating priest). 205. A Brahmana must never eat (a dinner given) at a sacrifice that is offered by one who is not a Srotriya, by one who sacrifices for a multitude of men, by a woman, or by a eunuch. 208. Nor that at which the slayer of a learned Brahmana has looked, nor that which has been touched by a menstruating woman, nor that which has been pecked at by birds or touched by a dog, Chapter 5 90. To women who have joined a heretical sect, who through lust live (with many men), who have caused an abortion, have killed their husbands, or drink spirituous liquor. 146. Thus the rules of personal purification for men of all castes, and those for cleaning (inanimate) things, have been fully declared to you: hear now the duties of women. 147. By a girl, by a young woman, or even by an aged one, nothing must be done independently, even in her own house. 148. In childhood a female must be subject to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord is dead to her sons; a woman must never be independent. 149. She must not seek to separate herself from her father, husband, or sons; by leaving them she would make both (her own and her husband’s) families contemptible. 150. She must always be cheerful, clever in (the management of her) household affairs, careful in cleaning her utensils, and economical in expenditure. 151. Him to whom her father may give her, or her brother with the father’s permission, she shall obey as long as he lives, and when he is dead, she must not insult (his memory). 152. For the sake of procuring good fortune to (brides), the recitation of benedictory texts (svastyayana), and the sacrifice to the Lord of creatures (Pragapati) are used at weddings; (but) the betrothal (by the father or guardian) is the cause of (the husband’s) dominion (over his wife). 153. The husband who wedded her with sacred texts, always gives happiness to his wife, both in season and out of season, in this world and in the next. 154. Though destitute of virtue, or seeking pleasure (elsewhere), or devoid of good qualities, (yet) a husband must be constantly worshipped as a god by a faithful wife. 155. No sacrifice, no vow, no fast must be performed by women apart (from their husbands); if a wife obeys her husband, she will for that (reason alone) be exalted in heaven. 156. A faithful wife, who desires to dwell (after death) with her husband, must never do anything that might displease him who took her hand, whether he be alive or dead. 157. At her pleasure let her emaciate her body by (living on) pure flowers, roots, and fruit; but she must never even mention the name of another man after her husband has died. 158. Until death let her be patient (of hardships), self-controlled, and chaste, and strive (to fulfil) that most excellent duty which (is prescribed) for wives who have one husband only. 159. Many thousands of Brahmanas who were chaste from their youth, have gone to heaven without continuing their race. 160. A virtuous wife who after the death of her husband constantly remains chaste, reaches heaven, though she have no son, just like those chaste men. 161. But a woman who from a desire to have offspring violates her duty towards her (deceased) husband, brings on herself disgrace in this world, and loses her place with her husband (in heaven). 162. Offspring begotten by another man is here not (considered lawful), nor (does offspring begotten) on another man’s wife (belong to the begetter), nor is a second husband anywhere prescribed for virtuous women. 163. She who cohabits with a man of higher caste, forsaking her own husband who belongs to a lower one, will become contemptible in this world, and is called a remarried woman (parapurva). 164. By violating her duty towards her husband, a wife is disgraced in this world, (after death) she enters the womb of a jackal, and is tormented by diseases (the punishment of) her sin. 165. She who, controlling her thoughts, words, and deeds, never slights her lord, resides (after death) with her husband (in heaven), and is called a virtuous (wife). 166. In reward of such conduct, a female who controls her thoughts, speech, and actions, gains in this (life) highest renown, and in the next (world) a place near her husband. 167. A twice-born man, versed in the sacred law, shall burn a wife of equal caste who conducts herself thus and dies before him, with (the sacred fires used for) the Agnihotra, and with the sacrificial implements. 168. Having thus, at the funeral, given the sacred fires to his wife who dies before him, he may marry again, and again kindle (the fires). 169. (Living) according to the (preceding) rules, he must never neglect the five (great) sacrifices, and, having taken a wife, he must dwell in (his own) house during the second period of his life. Chapter 9 5. Women must particularly be guarded against evil inclinations, however trifling (they may appear); for, if they are not guarded, they will bring sorrow on two families. 10. No man can completely guard women by force; but they can be guarded by the employment of the (following) expedients: 11. Let the (husband) employ his (wife) in the collection and expenditure of his wealth, in keeping (everything) clean, in (the fulfilment of) religious duties, in the preparation of his food, and in looking after the household utensils. 12. Women, confined in the house under trustworthy and obedient servants, are not (well) guarded; but those who of their own accord keep guard over themselves, are well guarded. 13. Drinking (spirituous liquor), associating with wicked people, separation from the husband, rambling abroad, sleeping (at unseasonable hours), and dwelling in other men’s houses, are the six causes of the ruin of women. 14. Women do not care for beauty, nor is their attention fixed on age; (thinking), ‘(It is enough that) he is a man,’ they give themselves to the handsome and to the ugly. 15. Through their passion for men, through their mutable temper, through their natural heartlessness, they become disloyal towards their husbands, however carefully they may be guarded in this (world). 16. Knowing their disposition, which the Lord of creatures laid in them at the creation, to be such, (every) man should most strenuously exert himself to guard them. 17. (When creating them) Manu allotted to women (a love of their) bed, (of their) seat and (of) ornament, impure desires, wrath, dishonesty, malice, and bad conduct. 18. For women no (sacramental) rite (is performed) with sacred texts, thus the law is settled; women (who are) destitute of strength and destitute of (the knowledge of) Vedic texts, (are as impure as) falsehood (itself), that is a fixed rule. 19. And to this effect many sacred texts are sung also in the Vedas, in order to (make) fully known the true disposition (of women); hear (now those texts which refer to) the expiation of their (sins). 20. ‘If my mother, going astray and unfaithful, conceived illicit desires, may my father keep that seed from me,’ that is the scriptural text. 21. If a woman thinks in her heart of anything that would pain her husband, the (above-mentioned text) is declared (to be a means for) completely removing such infidelity. 230. On women, infants, men of disordered mind, the poor and the sick, the king shall inflict punishment with a whip, a cane, or a rope and the like. Now do the Manu Samhita descriptions of women apply to Srimati Radharani and the Gopis? No, because Srimati Radharani is the feminine divinity herself, above all rules and completely pure. Every action and thought of the gopis is pure, and as such they are above any rules and regulations set forth by Manu, for their only goal is to lovingly serve Sri Krsna. Gauracandra

"Why do you get perturbed by the truth? Do you justify janadanaprabu's words? If you do not want matured people to participate in this forum, the forum will end up with nonsense. Learn to face truth." To be honest with you, Viji, I think that has already happened. It appears to me that certain people have agendas. Topics that start off on one point, inevitably end up in anti-Iskcon rhetoric. Why? I would hardly call the discussions thus far on the forums mature. As the saying goes, "So much heat, soooo little light." That about sums up these forum discussions. Gauracandra

Oh well, here we go again... another thread that veers off topic. When I initiated this topic I really thought we could get an interesting exchange going about economic development and what role, if any, religion may play in it. I took two courses in economic development in college and they were among the most interesting I had. So perhaps, if you guys don't mind, I can steer this back on topic. For instance, as I understand it in Islam it is considered a sin to charge interest on any kind of loan. Does such a religious injunction inhibit the formation of capital markets and thereby economic development. I don't know what the banking system is like in Muslim countries, and I would be fascinated to hear how their system works. I really would like to get an exchange of ideas going and I thought this would be an interesting topic to foster such discussion. Gauracandra

Now this is very interesting to me for one particular reason. I think I mentioned in a previous post that many years ago in college I took a few years of Russian. Well in one of my classes was an Indian student. At one point he mentioned how he kept noticing alot of similarities between Russian and his language. This was in regard to specific words as well as grammar. My professor pointed out that in fact Sanskrit was a major influence on Russian. And then almost as a side comment, she said that there are certain Russian traditions that even refer to a "Russian Veda". Now its been a number of years, and so my recollection is a bit hazy, but the impression that I recall was that this wasn't any formal book, but perhaps more like folktales that were told by the more "tribalistic" or "nomadic" peoples in the farther areas of russia. A sort of oral tradition. I didn't pursue this any further, I just thought "Well, thats kind of cool". Unfortunate for me. So I don't know what sort of stories they are or how closely they would match Vedic traditions. Anyways, this was just something that jumped in my mind when you mentioned Bhima going to Russia. Gauracandra

Animesh, Yes, I agree that this discussion has become unnecessarily impolite and would advise Janardana to tone down this rhetoric regardless of what Shvu may say in the future. I have personally decided to drop this conversation and let it die for lack of oxygen. Take care. Gauracandra

Jndas, As usual you have given a very lucid analysis. I have read in the past a number of articles by Professors of Indology which have shown the development of the impersonalistic view of the Bhagavad Gita and other Vedantic texts as essentially deriving from Mahayana Buddhism. Essentially, after Buddhism swept across India as a reform movement, the Vedic philosophy practically became extinct. It was within this environment that scholars like Shankara reinterpreted the Vedic texts to make them more acceptable to the Buddhist majority. I have read a number of scholars that have criticized this revision of Vedic texts as essentially "me-too-buddhism". Again, you have given a very lucid answer regarding the original Vedic view of a personal God. Gauracandra

How many conditioned souls does it take to screw in a light bulb? Answer: One. One to hold the light bulb while the rest of the world revolves around him. Gauracandra

A quick reply before I head off to work. First, I was in no way riled by your statements. I realize that your statement that any angry fans of SP should respond to you was a way of innoculating yourself from any response. I simply felt the tone was rather silly. Now perhaps english isn't your first language (I don't know) but I think anyone who read your post would come to my conclusion. With response to Ahankara and ego, I think it important to understand the subtle definition of ego. Most people take the word ego very loosely to mean pride. Ego in its traditional sense is a relative point of identification. To give you a simple example, if you were to say "My wife is very beautiful" this would be a statement of ego. Now if I were to say, "Your wife if very beautiful" this would not be a statement of ego. These sentences are exactly the same, the ONLY difference is the point of reference. Therefore it can be concluded that Ego is based on the point of reference. Therefore when Arjuna is saying "How can I fight MY cousins, MY teachers. Why should I risk MY kingdom with their bloodshed?" What does Krsna say. "Look, you are identifying with this body. Why? Identify with who you really are. This body will whither and die, its just like clothes that you take on and off. Don't worry about it, perform your duty. You are actually Atma. This is your real point of reference." With this in mind I think it entirely appropriate to say "false ego" because it is a false identification with this body. "My body, My wife, My cousins, My Kingdom". But you are Atma, that is your true identity. I hope this clears up this issue. Anyways, I've got to head off to work now. Gauracandra

I guess I’ll jump in here briefly. First let me say to Shvu that I think the tone of your reply is rather snide and totally unnecessary. If anything it takes away from what you are saying. Phrases like “his fans”, “Our man”, “So they lap [it] up” etc… are not appropriate for polite conversation. Second, with regard to the words Srila Prabhupada uses in his transalation, it should be clear that he is not trying to hide anything. He offers a word for word translation of each verse. And I would recommend, as Shvu has suggested, that you read the word for word translation. However, if there are certain themes that are developed through the Bhagavad Gita, over many verses, over a number of chapters, I do not think it inappropriate to address these themes in a distinct, stand alone verse. For instance, Shvu does not like the translation Srila Prabhupada gives for the word Ahankara. To quote “Ahankara is a sanskrit verse that means ego in english as any dictionary will say. However Prabhupada translates it as 'False ego'. Where did that false come from ? That would imply that there is something called 'True ego', which is not found anywhere in the Gita.” Well, my American Heritage dictionary defines ego as “The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.” One of the themes developed in the Gita is the misidentification of the body with the self. Ego, as my dictionary clearly states, is the self. False ego is a false self, a false identification. It is the body, not who you truly are. True ego, which Shvu says the Gita does not address, is one’s true identity, one’s true self, the soul. Now certainly there are many interpretations of the Gita, some from an impersonalistic view, some from a personalistic perspective. Each side can quote verses that backs their side up. I personally am unqualified to go into such in depth analysis. There are many schools that take a personalistic view of God. To such individuals, one of the themes of the Gita is the Personhood of God. Therefore I do not think it is wrong to use the phrase “The Supreme Personality of Godhead”. If this is a theme that is developed over many verses, then it can logically be applied to a distinct, stand alone verse. I am reminded of a nice pastime that is related on this website with regard to Sri Ramanuja and his translation of a verse from the Chandogya Upanishad: “He was a boy of extraordinary intelligence and placed himself under the charge of Yadavacharya, a renown Sankarite scholar. His guru was struck with his marvellous intellect and became very uncomfortable on account of his firm faith in Bhakti. One day while taking a massage, Yadavacharya was explaining to Ramanuja a sutra: tasya yatha kapyasam pundarikamevamaksini - Chandogya 1.6.7 Yadavacharya explained that according to Shankara the sutra says the two eyes of Pundarika (Vishnu) are like two lotuses which are red like the nates of a monkey. On hearing this interpretation with the unbecoming and low simile, Ramanuja's soft heart, tender by nature and softened by devotion, melted and as he was massaging, tears rolled down from the corners of his eyes like flames of fire and fell on the thigh of Yadava. Looking up at the touch of the hot tears, Yadava understood that something troubled his disciple. Ramanuja explained his dismay at hearing such an unbecoming explaination from his guru. He thought it sinful to compare with the posterior of a monkey the eyes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead - who is endowed with all gracious qualities and who is the repository of all the beauty of the universe. Yadava was angry at the boys audacity and told him to explain the verse if he could. Ramanuja analysed the word kapyasam to mean `blossomed by the sun' and the verse to mean "The eyes of that Golden Purusa are as lovely as lotuses blossomed by the rays of the sun." After a few more such incidents when Ramanuja corrected his guru, Yadavacharya thought him to be a threat to the Sankarite line and plotted to kill him. Later it came to pass that Yadavacharya was to become the disciple of Ramanuja.” Gauracandra

I was curious as to any thoughts on why the Ramayan seems to have been embraced culturally by much of Southeast Asia. If you look at Bali, Cambodia, etc... you see that much of their art, dance, etc... revolves around this Indian epic. How is it that the Ramayan has taken hold throughout SE Asia while other Indian traditions are not as strong. What is it in the Ramayan that speaks to such a vast range of people? Any thoughts? Gauracandra

I'm planning to travel to India at the end of this year-early next year (no I'm not going to Kumbha Mela - I don't think I could handle that), and was wondering if the readers at Indiadivine.com had any suggestions of where to go. For some reason I've always wanted to visit Rajasthan (Jaipur etc...) as well as Manipur. These areas always seemed to me to be very colorful etc.... So I was wondering, for those who have travelled to India, as well as those who live there, where would you suggest I go? I'm not looking for the most touristy areas, but areas that would be very interesting, with a lot of color and culture. Also, in the areas you suggest, are there particular temples etc... that I should visit. I'm trying to compile an itinerary. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Gauracandra

Since it is the month of Damodar I thought I'd post Sri Damodarastaka by Sri Satyavrata Muni. ********************************************* Namamisvaram sac-cid-ananda-rupam lasat-kundalam gokule bhrajamanam yasoda-bhiyolukhalad dhavamanam paramrstam atyantato drutya gopya To the supreme controller who possesses an eternal form of blissful knowledge, whose glistening earrings swing to and fro, who manifested Himself in Gokula, who stole the butter that the gopis kept hanging from the rafters of their storerooms and who then quickly jumped up and ran in retreat in fear of Mother Yasoda but was ultimately caught - to that Supreme Lord, Sri Damodara, I offer my humble obeisances. rudantam muhur netra-yugmam mrjantam karambhoja-yugmena satanka-netram muhuh svasa-kampa-trirekanka-kantha sthita-graiva-damodaram bhakti-baddam Upon seeing His mother's whipping stick, He cried and rubbed His eyes again and again with His two lotus hands. His eyes were fearful and His breathing quick, and as Mother Yasoda bound His belly with ropes, He shivered in fright and His pearl necklace shook. To this Supreme Lord, Sri Damodara, who is bound with His devotee's love, I offer my humble obeisances. itidrk sva-lilabhir ananda-kunde sva-ghosam nimajjantam akhyapayantam tadiyesita-jnesu bhaktair jivatvam punah prematas tam satavrtti vande Those superexcellent pastimes of Lord Krsna's babyhood drowned the inhabitants of Gokula in pools of ecstasy. To the devotees who are attracted only to His majestic aspect of Narayana in Vaikuntha, the Lord herein reveals: "I am conquered and overwhelmed by pure loving devotion". To the Supreme Lord, Damodara, my obeisances hundreds and hundreds of times. varam deva moksam na moksavadhim va na canyam vrne ham varesad apiha idam te vapur natha gopala-balam sada me manasya avirastam kim anyaih O Lord, although You are able to give all kinds of benedictions, I do not pray to You for liberation, nor eternal life in Vaikuntha, nor any other boon. My only prayer is that Your childhood pastimes may constantly appear in my mind. O Lord, I do not even want to know Your feature of Paramatma. I simply wish that Your childhood pastimes may ever be enacted in my heart. idam te mukhambojam atyanta-nilair vrtam kuntalaih snigdha-raktais ca gopya muhus cumbitam bimba-rakta-dharam me manasya avirastam alam laksa-labhaih O Lord, the cheeks of Your blackish lotus face, which is encircled by locks of curling hair, have become reddened like bimba fruit due to Mother Yasoda's kisses. What more can I describe than this? Millions of opulences are of no use to me, but may this vision constantly remain in my mind. namo deva damodarananta visno prasida prabho duhkha-jalabdhi-magnam krpa-drsti-vrstyatidinam batanu grhanesa mam ajnam edhy aksi-drsyah O unlimited Visnu! O Master! O Lord! Be pleased upon me! I am drowning in an ocean of sorrow and am almost like a dead man. Please shower the rain of mercy upon me; uplift me and protect me with Your nectarean vision. kuveratmajau baddha-murtyaiva yadvat tvaya mocitau bhakti-bhajau krtau ca tatha prema-bhaktim svakam me prayaccha na mokse graho me sti damodareha O Lord Damodara, in Your form as a baby, Mother Yasoda bound You to a grinding stone with a rope for tying cows. You then freed the sons of Kuvera, Manigriva and Nalakuvera, who were cursed to stand as trees, and You gave them the chance to become Your devotees. Please bless me in this same way. I have no desire for liberation into Your effulgence. namas te stu damne sphurad-dipti-dhamne tvadiyodarayatha visvasya dhamne namo radhikayai tvadiya priyayai namo nanta-lilaya devaya tubham O Lord, the entire universe was created by Lord Brahma, who was born from Your abdomen, which was bound with a rope by Mother Yasoda. To this rope I offer my humble obeisances. I offer my obeisances to Your most beloved Srimati Radharani and to Your unlimited pastimes. ********************************************* Jai Radha-Damodara. Haribol. Gauracandra