Gauracandra

[Edited. This section deals with the creation of the universe] Timaeus: All men, Socrates, who have any degree of right feeling, at the beginning of every enterprise, whether small or great, always call upon God. And we, too, who are going to discourse of the nature of the universe, how created or how existing without creation, if we be not altogether out of our wits, must invoke the aid of Gods and Goddesses and pray that our words may be acceptable to them and consistent with themselves. Let this, then, be our invocation of the Gods, to which I add an exhortation of myself to speak in such manner as will be most intelligible to you, and will most accord with my own intent. First then, in my judgment, we must make a distinction and ask, What is that which always is and has no becoming; and what is that which is always becoming and never is? [Edited for brevity] [Note: Here a discussion of the elements of the universe corresponds with the Vedic conception]. Now that which is created is of necessity corporeal, and also visible and tangible. And nothing is visible where there is no fire, or tangible which has no solidity, and nothing is solid without earth. Wherefore also God in the beginning of creation made the body of the universe to consist of fire and earth. But two things cannot be rightly put together without a third; there must be some bond of union between them. And the fairest bond is that which makes the most complete fusion of itself and the things which it combines; and proportion is best adapted to effect such a union. For whenever in any three numbers, whether cube or square, there is a mean, which is to the last term what the first term is to it; and again, when the mean is to the first term as the last term is to the mean-then the mean becoming first and last, and the first and last both becoming means, they will all of them of necessity come to be the same, and having become the same with one another will be all one. If the universal frame had been created a surface only and having no depth, a single mean would have sufficed to bind together itself and the other terms; but now, as the world must be solid, and solid bodies are always compacted not by one mean but by two, God placed water and air in the mean between fire and earth, and made them to have the same proportion so far as was possible (as fire is to air so is air to water, and as air is to water so is water to earth); and thus he bound and put together a visible and tangible heaven. And for these reasons, and out of such elements which are in number four, the body of the world was created, and it was harmonised by proportion, and therefore has the spirit of friendship; and having been reconciled to itself, it was indissoluble by the hand of any other than the framer. Now the creation took up the whole of each of the four elements; for the Creator compounded the world out of all the fire and all the water and all the air and all the earth, leaving no part of any of them nor any power of them outside.

[Edited. This section deals with the story of Atlantis] Timaeus: I quite approve. Critias: Then listen, Socrates, to a tale which, though strange, is certainly true, having been attested by Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages. He was a relative and a dear friend of my great-grandfather, Dropides, as he himself says in many passages of his poems; and he told the story to Critias, my grandfather, who remembered and repeated it to us. There were of old, he said, great and marvellous actions of the Athenian city, which have passed into oblivion through lapse of time and the destruction of mankind, and one in particular, greater than all the rest. This we will now rehearse. It will be a fitting monument of our gratitude to you, and a hymn of praise true and worthy of the goddess, on this her day of festival. Socrates: Very good. And what is this ancient famous action of the Athenians, which Critias declared, on the authority of Solon, to be not a mere legend, but an actual fact? Critias: I will tell an old-world story which I heard from an aged man; for Critias, at the time of telling it, was as he said, nearly ninety years of age, and I was about ten. Now the day was that day of the Apaturia which is called the Registration of Youth, at which, according to custom, our parents gave prizes for recitations, and the poems of several poets were recited by us boys, and many of us sang the poems of Solon, which at that time had not gone out of fashion. One of our tribe, either because he thought so or to please Critias, said that in his judgment Solon was not only the wisest of men, but also the noblest of poets. The old man, as I very well remember, brightened up at hearing this and said, smiling: Yes, Amynander, if Solon had only, like other poets, made poetry the business of his life, and had completed the tale which he brought with him from Egypt, and had not been compelled, by reason of the factions and troubles which he found stirring in his own country when he came home, to attend to other matters, in my opinion he would have been as famous as Homer or Hesiod, or any poet. And what was the tale about, Critias? said Amynander. About the greatest action which the Athenians ever did, and which ought to have been the most famous, but, through the lapse of time and the destruction of the actors, it has not come down to us. Tell us, said the other, the whole story, and how and from whom Solon heard this veritable tradition. He replied: In the Egyptian Delta, at the head of which the river Nile divides, there is a certain district which is called the district of Sais, and the great city of the district is also called Sais, and is the city from which King Amasis came. The citizens have a deity for their foundress; she is called in the Egyptian tongue Neith, and is asserted by them to be the same whom the Hellenes call Athene; they are great lovers of the Athenians, and say that they are in some way related to them. To this city came Solon, and was received there with great honour; he asked the priests who were most skilful in such matters, about antiquity, and made the discovery that neither he nor any other Hellene knew anything worth mentioning about the times of old. On one occasion, wishing to draw them on to speak of antiquity, he began to tell about the most ancient things in our part of the world-about Phoroneus, who is called "the first man," and about Niobe; and after the Deluge, of the survival of Deucalion and Pyrrha; and he traced the genealogy of their descendants, and reckoning up the dates, tried to compute how many years ago the events of which he was speaking happened. Thereupon one of the priests, who was of a very great age, said: O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves us. When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient. The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer does not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or in any other region of which we are informed-if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples. Whereas just when you and other nations are beginning to be provided with letters and the other requisites of civilized life, after the usual interval, the stream from heaven, like a pestilence, comes pouring down, and leaves only those of you who are destitute of letters and education; and so you have to begin all over again like children, and know nothing of what happened in ancient times, either among us or among yourselves. As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children. In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word. For there was a time, Solon, before the great deluge of all, when the city which now is Athens was first in war and in every way the best governed of all cities, is said to have performed the noblest deeds and to have had the fairest constitution of any of which tradition tells, under the face of heaven. Solon marvelled at his words, and earnestly requested the priests to inform him exactly and in order about these former citizens. You are welcome to hear about them, Solon, said the priest, both for your own sake and for that of your city, and above all, for the sake of the goddess who is the common patron and parent and educator of both our cities. She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old. As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of their most famous action; the exact particulars of the whole we will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves. If you compare these very laws with ours you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours as they were in the olden time. In the first place, there is the caste of priests, which is separated from all the others; next, there are the artificers, who ply their several crafts by themselves and do not intermix; and also there is the class of shepherds and of hunters, as well as that of husbandmen; and you will observe, too, that the warriors in Egypt are distinct from all the other classes, and are commanded by the law to devote themselves solely to military pursuits; moreover, the weapons which they carry are shields and spears, a style of equipment which the goddess taught of Asiatics first to us, as in your part of the world first to you. Then as to wisdom, do you observe how our law from the very first made a study of the whole order of things, extending even to prophecy and medicine which gives health, out of these divine elements deriving what was needful for human life, and adding every sort of knowledge which was akin to them. All this order and arrangement the goddess first imparted to you when establishing your city; and she chose the spot of earth in which you were born, because she saw that the happy temperament of the seasons in that land would produce the wisest of men. Wherefore the goddess, who was a lover both of war and of wisdom, selected and first of all settled that spot which was the most likely to produce men likest herself. And there you dwelt, having such laws as these and still better ones, and excelled all mankind in all virtue, as became the children and disciples of the gods. Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. I have told you briefly, Socrates, what the aged Critias heard from Solon and related to us. And when you were speaking yesterday about your city and citizens, the tale which I have just been repeating to you came into my mind, and I remarked with astonishment how, by some mysterious coincidence, you agreed in almost every particular with the narrative of Solon; but I did not like to speak at the moment. For a long time had elapsed, and I had forgotten too much; I thought that I must first of all run over the narrative in my own mind, and then I would speak.

Timeaus This text deals principally with the Greek view of creation and gives a very detailed view of the order of the universe. For the sake of brevity I have edited out much from this text for this posting. [Note: This part of Timeaus discusses the ideal civilization as conceived by Socrates, that allocates occupations by one’s nature. In the dialogue, this will then prompt Critias to relate the story of the civilization of Atlantis. I will post that portion later.] Socrates: To be sure I will: the chief theme of my yesterday's discourse was the State-how constituted and of what citizens composed it would seem likely to be most perfect. Timaeus: Yes, Socrates; and what you said of it was very much to our mind. Socrates: Did we not begin by separating the husbandmen and the artisans from the class of defenders of the State? Timaeus: Yes. Socrates: And when we had given to each one that single employment and particular art which was suited to his nature, we spoke of those who were intended to be our warriors, and said that they were to be guardians of the city against attacks from within as well as from without, and to have no other employment; they were to be merciful in judging their subjects, of whom they were by nature friends, but fierce to their enemies, when they came across them in battle. Timaeus: Exactly. Socrates: We said, if I am not mistaken, that the guardians should be gifted with a temperament in a high degree both passionate and philosophical; and that then they would be as they ought to be, gentle to their friends and fierce with their enemies. Timaeus: Certainly. Socrates: And what did we say of their education? Were they not to be trained in gymnastic, and music, and all other sorts of knowledge which were proper for them? Timaeus: Very true. Socrates: And being thus trained they were not to consider gold or silver or anything else to be their own private property; they were to be like hired troops, receiving pay for keeping guard from those who were protected by them-the pay was to be no more than would suffice for men of simple life; and they were to spend in common, and to live together in the continual practice of virtue, which was to be their sole pursuit. Timaeus: That was also said. Socrates: And do you also remember how, with a view of securing as far as we could the best breed, we said that the chief magistrates, male and female, should contrive secretly, by the use of certain lots, so to arrange the nuptial meeting, that the bad of either sex and the good of either sex might pair with their like; and there was to be no quarrelling on this account, for they would imagine that the union was a mere accident, and was to be attributed to the lot? Timaeus: I remember.

In 360 B.C. Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher, put down into writing the oldest known written account of the ancient civilization of Atlantis. The story is told in two texts by Plato named ‘Timeaus’ and ‘Critias’. According to Plato, the story of Atlantis is true, and the conversation he recorded between Socrates, Hermocrates, Timeaus and Critias, details the ancient civilization of Atlantis, said to have flourished 9000 years before his time. The story originally was told by an Egyptian priest to Solon, and from Solon it was passed on to Dropides, from Dropides it went to Critias I, who then related it to Critias II (grandson of Critias I). I have often thought that there was a link between the ancient Greek civilization and the Vedic civilization. The following are some details from Timeaus and Critias of the Greek view of the world and the civilization of Atlantis that bear a striking similarity to Vedic concepts. The quotes from these texts have been edited for brevity. Timeaus speaks principally on the ideal social order, and the make up of the universe. It also details how the story of Atlantis was passed down. You will note several similarities to the Vedic view. First, the ideal social order creates classes by on occupation of priest, military, laborer, and agriculturalist. Second, the creation of the universe is comprised of earth, water, fire, and air. Third, in the description of Atlantis, the Egyptian priests mentions that many deluges occur in periodic intervals, and as such force civilization to begin again. The idea of cyclical partial and total devastation and rebirth of civilization are common in Vedic scriptures. Critias speaks mainly on the physical structure of Atlantis, its architecture, fields etc…. It appears that it was destroyed through the centuries as only a portion remains, and ends in mid-sentence. Gauracandra

Hi Sushil, Don't worry about the negative attitudes of a few. Just remember, if you show a glass cup filled half way up with milk, there will be those who say "Its half full" and those who will say "Its half empty", and then there are those who will say "Hey, I like Coke". So then you bring them a cup of Coca-Cola, and they'll say "What??? No ice cubes?" and so you'll go and get the ice cubes. Then they'll take a sip of the ice cold cup of Coca-cola and spit it out exclaiming "This is regular Coke, I wanted Diet Coke. I specifically demanded diet Coke." So its best to just ignore these sorts of people. They have by nature a sour disposition in life, and spend their time trying to find faults in all others. Just try to remain humble and let them go on their way. Gauracandra

Hi Whey, Actually this is a question that comes up alot in these forums. In my opinion it is really a matter of semantics. Perhaps you should check out the topic titled "Who is a Hindu?" in these forums a little while back. You'll get a number of responses to this question. As for the Bhagavad-Gita being the word of God, the very title means "Song of God", so I think that applies. Gauracandra

I was thinking about this posting and came to realize that fasting to attain spiritual enlightenment it a fairly common (if not universal) practice among the world religions. I know for instance that there are Native American tribes who, as part of the ritual to attain manhood, require that their young remain far away separated from the tribe, and must fast until they get certain visions. I believe in the Jewish tradition, Moses fasted before he received the 10 commandments (I'm not positive about this). In Islam, they fast during Ramadan. And in Christianity, the example of Jesus fasting for 40 days in the forest before he had to undergo the temptations of the devil. And of course in the Vaisnava tradition we have ekadasi, and also various days for fasting. I think to some degree it is about strengthening the ties to the spirit and away from the body. Again, in Christianity, Adam fell because he couldn't control his tongue. And yet when Jesus fasted for 40 days, physically he would have been very weak, yet he rejected Satan's offering him the wealth of the world. This was based on strength of spirit and not strength of body. The urges of the belly are perhaps second only to the sex urge. And so if we can control our tongue, it makes controlling other aspects (including sex desire) stronger. But it should be noted that fasting for spiritual growth is different than starvation fasting (anorexia, or for a political cause). The intention is one of tempering the desires, and to attain a greater level of physical, mental, and spiritual humility. If one approaches it in a serious manner the results of one's spiritual practices will be enhanced. On a physical level, I think fasting say once or twice a month is a great way of removing the toxins that build up in the body over the years. By drinking plenty of water, and juices, one can remove many of these by-products that build up in the intestines, and the rest of the body. Personally, I have always found controlled fasting, of 1 to 2 days, to make me feel lighter, healthier and more energetic. I think one key is to drink plenty of water and not over do it. Don't go off into the forest for 40 days just yet. Just be judicial and approach it in a controlled manner. Gauracandra

Just wanted to share another article I found with you all. Its a bit long, but very interesting, and well researched. Hope you enjoy. Gauracandra ********************************************* THE EFFECTS OF MUSIC ON THE MIND: Beyond Soothing the Savage Beast by Kristian David Olson 2-22-96 Are people typically geniuses? Statistically, people probably are not. In fact, most people probably aren't even intellectually gifted at all. Most people are likely to be pretty much average, maybe a little bit above average, or a little below, but very average none the less. It is universally understood that people strive to learn to become wiser and more informed about the world around them. The more people learn, the more powerful they can become. It is the speed at which people learn that separates the geniuses from the average people from the learning disabled. Geniuses don't run into problems while learning, because they learn so fast. It is everyone else that could really use help. One solid way to increase the speed at which people learn is with music. People learn through music and their minds grow faster because of it. Some music, when implemented properly, can have positive effects on learning and attitude. Music is a powerful thing, and when we understand its significance, it can bring dramatic changes both positive and negative into our lives. The earliest stages of learning for young children are the most important. The fundamentals of learning are instilled into a child at a very young age and how much importance is placed on these fundamentals can have dramatic affects on the future of the child's learning. Music, when applied in a constructive way, can have positive effects on a child's learning and help them in many ways. One way that music can make learning easier for a young child is by implementing music lessons into a child's normal activities. A small study was done two years back involving ten three-year-olds who were tested on their ability to put together a puzzle and the speed at which they could do it ("Learning Keys" 24). After the initial test was taken, five of the children were given singing lessons for 30 minutes a day and the other five were given piano lessons for 15 minutes a week (24). The lessons were conducted over a six- month period of time, and after the six months, all of the kids showed substantial improvement in the speed at which they could put together the puzzle (24). The researchers understand this skill in putting pieces of a puzzle together as the same reasoning that engineers, chess players and high-level mathematicians use. In this study of inner-city kids, their initial scores were below the national average, but afterwards their scores nearly doubled (24). The term they give to the type of reasoning and thought that goes into putting pieces of a puzzle together is called abstract reasoning. By teaching music, people exercise the same abstract reasoning skills that they use for doing math or some other exercise in which the people have to visualize in their head. An eight month study was conducted by Frances H. Rauscher of the University of California at Irvine, in which 19 preschoolers, ranging in age from three to five, received weekly keyboard and daily singing lessons while another 15 preschoolers received no musical training at all (Bower 143). At the start, middle and end of the study, the subjects were tested on five spatial reasoning tasks (143). After only 4 months, scores on the test to assemble a puzzle to form a picture improved dramatically for the group with the musical training, while the control group didn't, even though both groups started out with the same scores (143). It can be understood that this kind of improvement may not be substantial enough to alter the way people are fundamentally taught, but its results cannot be ignored. Rauscher explains, "Music instruction can improve a child's spatial intelligence for a long time, perhaps permanently" (qtd. in Bower 143). Implementing such changes and improvements into a young child's learning could have great effects on them in the future when dealing with the same spatial reasoning skills. With its resulting improvements in spatial reasoning, music can also be a very helpful tool when actually implementing it into the classroom and involving it with learning basic curriculum. In New York City, a program called Learning through an Expanded Arts Program, or LEAP, has been going on for a while now in which music and the arts is implemented into the school curriculum to improve scholastic scores of children at all levels (Dean and Gross 614). One way in which music is implemented is with math. They call it "musical math," in which the teacher incorporates rhythm with counting and gaining a grasp on the fundamentals of math (618). With the rhythm, they are able to learn basic elements of math like fraction and multiplication. Christine Bard, the LEAP consultant explains, "Music helps teach the precognitive skills. It gives students the capacity to trust themselves by providing internal discipline through a highly repetitive structure" (qtd. in Dean and Gross 618). On the whole, students' feeling of self-confidence and accomplishment are great and most importantly, the students' attitude toward math and learning is increased dramatically (618). Music as a separate and thorough curriculum can have dramatic positive changes in the learning process of young people. Mary Jane Collett, the Director of the Office of Arts and Cultural Education of the Division of Instruction and Professional Development of New York City Public Schools says: ... a well taught sequential music curriculum not only results in music learning that has inherent value; it also gives students the chance to listen, react, see, touch, and move. Instruction in music skills, appreciation, and theory also provides a wealth of learning strategies that enhance children's analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating skills. Students learn to process information and transfer knowledge through these concrete, kinetic, and cognitive experiences (Collett 61). Mary Jane Collett is an advocate for a program called Learning To Read Through The Arts (LTRTA), which makes music and the arts a separate course in the elementary curriculum instead of using it as an aid to different parts of the curriculum here and there (61). Music is taught through listening to different types of music while talking about the music, trying to understand it and interpret it in different ways and in many ways, imitate it (63). She further explains: These integrated music experiences provide excitement in learning for children and thereby improve students' reading, writing, thinking, and analyzing skills and strategies. Learning through all the senses expands the learning process to accommodate different learning styles. Opportunities for integrating communication arts, literature, science, social studies, and the arts are limited only by the educator's imagination, creativity, and open-mindedness (64). Music, when involved in the classroom, can have great effects on the early stages of learning for the very young up through elementary age school children. Music can also have significant effects on older people in a learning environment. Music does not have the same effect on older people as it does on younger people, however. It is easily understood that for young children, getting them to do fun musical things like learning to play an instrument is somewhat easy compared to getting an adult to do the same thing. Children will do it because it is something new and exciting whereas adults need to be motivated to do something because they won't do something simply because they can. For adults it is a matter of choice, but when they choose to involve music into their everyday lives, the effects can be just as dramatic, but different when compared with music effects on younger children. One important aspect that music can have on learning for people of all ages is attitude. It seems logical to assume that it is more helpful for adults who are less likely to want to do a particular job or activity, but music can change this and give a listener a more positive attitude and motivation. As we will see, by simply listening to pleasant music in the background while doing an arduous task can make it seem so much easier, or in some cases, music may not increase positive attitude, but will ease the strain of an activity. A study was conducted by Shawn E. Mueske, a graduate student at Mankato State University, to determine the effects of background music on a biology lab. He studied to determine the effects of background music on attitude, achievement, time spent in the laboratory and on task behavior (Mueske 6-7). He used a control group which entailed one lab where no music was present, and one experimental group which listened to popular/soft rock music at an appropriate, soft sound level for background music (14). He found that there was no real difference in attitude or achievement among the two groups, but there was a significant increase in time spent in the laboratory and time spent on task (18-28). Listening to music as background can help when people when they're thinking, learning, or working, but the music needs to be implemented correctly. It can be easily understood that if it's vocal music, it needs to be somewhat quiet, for if it isn't, it can be very distracting to the mind. It is logical to conclude then that if it's instrumental, it can be somewhat louder than vocal music, but not too loud because any music that is loud enough will make it hard to learn or think. As we will see, the listener's preference to music must also be taken into account, because the primary goal is for the music to affect the person's mood and attitude positively, and if they are listening to music that they absolutely deplore, it won't help them think because it will be hard to shut it out of their mind. When people listen to music in the background, it is very important that they listen to music that they are familiar and comfortable with. It is not necessarily better for people to listen to music that is supposed to relax them if they are unfamiliar with it. It is better for people to listen to music they are comfortable with and know well and like. A study of 50 male surgeons was conducted to see if they performed a basic surgeon-related task better and more efficiently while listening to surgeon-selected music, experimenter-selected music, or no music at all (Allen and Blascovich 882). The test monitored skin conductance response frequency, pulse rate, blood pressure, speed and accuracy (883). The experimenter-selected music was Pachelbel's Canon in D. Both conditions with music showed significantly better results than the condition without music, but the condition with surgeon-selected music was clearly even higher than the other (883). Another study was conducted on 54 people (25 males and 29 females) to determine the difference of subject-selected music, experimenter-selected music and no music on affect, anxiety, and relaxation (Thaut and Davis 210). This study was done under the understanding that stress is a major factor to health problems of the day. It is important to cut down on stress in our daily lives and any way that we can do that is beneficial to our health in some way or another. One way to try and cut down on stress in people's everyday lives is by listening to music. In past years, there has been quite a bit of music created for the sole purpose of relaxation and the reduction of stress. The question posed by this survey is: Do these relaxation tapes really work better than a person's personal preference in music or no music at all in reducing stress? The study found that all three ways worked well for relaxation and reducing tension, but listening to music proved a little bit more beneficial. Of both music groups, it found that the relaxation tapes were equally as good as the subject-selected music, but were no better (219-220). Music is an invaluable tool when it comes to reaching students who fail to do well in school. Scott Shuler, a music consultant in the Connecticut State Department of Education and adjunct professor in the Hartt School of Music in West Hartford, Conn. describes at-risk students as students that express characteristics such as: academic underachievement, lack of self-esteem and self-respect, inability to communicate thought and feeling on an intimate level, limited conflict resolution and problem-solving skills, boredom with traditional schooling, need for a supportive peer group with whom they can establish a social bond, learning styles that differ from those addressed by traditional modes of instruction, interest in artistic expression and eagerness to pursue tasks they find interesting, need for an experiential, hands on approach to learning, avoidance of academic risk taking, and need to experience success somewhere in the school setting (Shuler 31). Shuler proposes that there are two essential reasons why students fail in school. They are lack of ability to learn or lack of desire to learn, and while most students who fail have the ability to do well, they choose not to because their school experience doesn't motivate them (30). At-risk students create an aversion to traditional styles of teaching and when attempts are made to cut out "nonessential" subjects from curricula, it only worsens the problem and further distances the at-risk student from the goal of becoming motivated to do better (30-31). For many reasons, music can be one of the most influential factors in getting at-risk students motivated. Music related courses in curricula give students many of the important elements that will erase the characteristics of an at-risk student. Every student likes music if only one kind, and outside of school, most students seek out music pretty actively (31). Therapists use music to help severely handicapped individuals, so why can't schools do the same thing to help at-risk students (31)? Musical groups such as choir, orchestra or band help bring people together as well as improving communication skills, group work, and forming peer groups. Music creates a higher standard among people; where on a math test a grade of 90% would be an "A", a 90% grade on a performance would be quite bad (32). This study seems to suggest that music can provide a student with a level of individuality to learn in his/her own style. Music education creates a much more well-rounded student that do much more and learn much easier. Music can also have very interesting and beneficial effects on the mind. A study was conducted at the Center for the Neurobiology of Learning and Memory at the University of California at Irvine by Frances H. Rauscher, Gordon L. Shaw and Katherine N. Ky in which 36 college students listened to one of three listening condition for ten minutes and then took the Stanford-Binet intelligence test designed for abstract reasoning (Rauscher, Shaw and Ky 611). The experiment was repeated for each of the listening conditions which were listening to a Mozart piano sonata, a relaxation tape, and complete silence (611). They found that the equivalent IQ scores were the equal between listening to the relaxation tape and complete silence, but after listening to the Mozart piece, IQ scores were an average of eight to nine points higher than the others (611). The scientists explain how the enhancing effect doesn't last for more than ten to fifteen minutes after listening to the sample (611). They were able to draw a certain amount of theories out of the results of this study, but much more testing is required for any solid conclusions to be made. They think that music that is without complexity or is highly repetitive will not enhance abstract reasoning, but rather interfere with it (611). Their findings are put under scrutiny and criticism by Kristin Leutwyler, who tries to set the record straight about misinterpretations in the media regarding the findings of Rauscher, Shaw and Ky. She asserts that "...the popular press have suggested that anyone can increase his or her IQ by listening to Mozart. This supposed quick fix is false" (28). She explains that the IQ scores were based solely on spatial ability and not other factors that IQ takes into account (28). Leutwyler explains that Rauscher's work is "... based on the premise that listening to music and performing a spatial task prime the same neural firing patterns. But that's just a guess." (28) Despite the skepticism of Leutwyler in the findings of the three scientists and the fact that more testing needs to done to take into account different variables, the initial findings cannot be ignored. There is some correlation between listening to music and spatial reasoning and through it, there is some connection with IQ. A good sized study was done many years ago to test intelligence across a wide range of fields and subjects (Schoen 94) . On the study, 205 college students were given the Minnesota College Ability Test, all of the Seashore tests for musical talent, and were rated on a scale for musical training (94). After the testing was complete, they separated out the top 25 and the bottom 25 to determine if there was a difference in musicality among them, but found none (94). Next, they excluded the 25 students with the greatest and least amount of musical training and found two interesting groups (94). Of the two groups left, the top group's average student had taken music theory, private piano lessons for two years, voice and cello for four years while he/she had played in orchestras for four years, sung in choir for six years, had three musicians in the family, could read music and supply missing parts, and attended concerts regularly (94). The lower group's average student had never had any private lessons, didn't play an instrument, had no musicians in his/her family, and never attended operas or concerts (95). Music won't turn anyone into a genius, but it can have some substantial effects on bringing people above average at least. One thing that music does that cannot be ignored is it stimulates the brain- sometimes positively and sometimes negatively, but it effects the brain nonetheless. Some positive effects on the brain can be seen from the study conducted by Rauscher, Shaw and Ky where they found a temporary increase in spatial reasoning after listening to a bit of Mozart. These findings are somewhat inconclusive, but cannot be ignored altogether. It shows how there is much more studying that needs to be done in the future on this subject. I have a personal anecdote about how music stimulates the mind. When I was in high school, I took the ACT for the first time in the fall of my Junior year. It was a normal day and I wasn't extremely focused or unfocused on the morning that I took it. That morning before I left, and on my way to the test site, I listened to some of my favorite rock music on my radio. The test seemed a little hard, but I got through it. When my results came back a few weeks later, I received a 19. That was a horrible score for me. I figured that I had better take it again and get a higher score, so in the spring of my junior year I took it again. This time, I felt a little more focused and during the entire morning before I left and on my way to the test site, I listened to Mozart. This time I was much more confident on how I did when I was finished. A couple weeks later, I found out that I received a 26. Most people improve on their ACT score when they take it a second time, but I've never heard of anyone improving as much as I did. I had read the report about listening to Mozart and how it supposedly raised your IQ temporarily, and that's why I listened to it that day. I was much more prepared for the test the second time, but to improve as much as I did, one has to wonder if listening to Mozart had anything to do with it. Music has been known to have a very direct effect on people's moods. By just listening to music, people's moods are easily altered. Several studies were conducted to test people's mood changes after listening to certain kinds of music (Schoen 89-99). One large study of 20,000 people showed music changes mood and the changes in mood were very uniform (89). A large number of people listened to classical music by various composers from various musical periods and were asked how the music made them feel. Another study showed that the effects of mood varied from person to person depending on their musicality. Non-musical people enjoy music rarely and when they do, the enjoyment is slight, while semi-musical people enjoy music quite often and when they do, it is enjoyable to them, while musical people enjoy music rarely, due to discriminating tastes, but when they do, it is with the greatest intensity (90). These studies also showed that certain types of moods/emotions are characteristic with music while certain emotions are not such as anger, fear, jealousy, and envy (91). Certain emotions are more characteristic with vocal music because of the words such as: love, longing, reverence, devotion (91). Another study was done on 205 people testing the effects of major and minor modes. Minor mode gave the feelings of "... melancholy, mournful, gloomy, depressing..." while major mode most often gave the feelings of "... happy, sprightly, cheerful, joyous, and bright ..." (99). Music is an important and extremely useful tool in the way we learn and to deny its power is a waste of a truly wonderful resource. In recent years there have been concerns about some types of music such as Gangsta Rap having very negative effects on peoples minds and moods. This type of music imprints an extremely violent image into people's minds and there has been growing concern about it and tying it in with violent crimes. In cases like this, it only shows how much more we need to study music to fully understand its full impact on the human mind. In these days where cutbacks are always eminent in people's local schools, people need to struggle to keep the music and art intact. Music and the arts are what make life worth living and without them, people lose hold of their culture and diversity. The ideal way to learn in the future would be to fully incorporate music into the curriculum of every school. If every school supported and encouraged their students to freely pursue music with the culture of music in their everyday lives, people would become much more efficient in their learning and would become much better students on the whole. Music is a power too great for man to comprehend at this point but through further study man can learn how to better harness its power to use it to its full potential. Works Cited Allen, Karen, and Jim Blascovich. "Effects of Music on Cardiovascular Reactivity Among Surgeons." Journal of the American Medical Association. 272.11 (21 Sept. 1994): 882-4. Bower, Bruce. "Tuning up young brains." Science News. 27 Aug. 1994: 143. Collett, Mary Jane. "Music as the Basis for Learning." The Education Digest. May 1992: 61-4. Dean, Jodi, and Ila Lane Gross. "Teaching Basic Skills Through Art and Music." Phi Delta Kappan. Apr. 1992: 613-8. "Learning Keys: Music may give kids' minds a head start." Prevention. Feb. 1994: 24-6. Leutwyler, Kristin. "Silly Season." Scientific American. Apr. 1994: 28-9. Mueske, Shawn E. The Effects of Background Music in an Introductory Biology Laboratory. Mankato: Mankato State University, 1994. Rauscher, Frances H., Gordon L. Shaw, and Katherine N. Ky. "Music and spatial task performance." Nature. 365 (24 Oct. 1993): 611. Schoen, Max. The Psychology of Music: A Survey for Teacher and Musician. New York: The Ronald Press Company, 1940. Shuler, Scott. "Reaching At-Risk Students Through Music Education." NASSP Bulletin. May 1992: 30-5. Thaut, Michael H., and William B. Davis. "The Influence of Subject-Selected versus Experimenter-Chosen Music on Affect, Anxiety, and Relaxation." Journal of Music Therapy. 30.4 (Winter 1993): 210-23.

"Henceforth if you want to post anything that is not conforming to ISKCON, you add a clear note saying what your reason is for posting such *nonsense* and also your hidden/open motives" Just a quick note on this as relates to the topic posted by pundit27. I would like to first say, that we need not have such a harsh reply to pundit27's posting. He was just asking for opinions. But I find it interesting that "ISKCON" is singled out here. As per usual, certain members of these forums feel the need to single out Iskcon. Fine if that suits them. But just to note, jndas is a member of Iskcon, as am I and I don't think either of us have been particularly harsh in our replies. The harshest reply came from Dubeyrakesh who I don't believe is an Iskcon member (I could be wrong). So lets stop this silly finger pointing. We could spend our time pointing to the faults of members of the RamaKrsna mission, or followers of Swami Sivananda, or followers of Aurobindo, or whatever other group there is. But will that help us in the end? No. This website as far as I know is independent of any institution. While the site administrator is a member of Iskcon this website is quite broadbased and open. Just my two thoughts. Gauracandra

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with this. A long time ago I heard that there are scriptural injunctions against boiling milk with salt. I was curious as to why? and what other culinary injunctions are to be found in Vedic scriptures. I was thinking there probably are various regulations like the Jewish Kosher laws. For instance, in the Jewish Kosher laws it is forbidden to cut vegetables on the same cutting surface that was used to cut meat. A friend of mine told me the reason was as a health code. They didn't want bacteria and salmonella poisoning from the meat to contaminate the vegetables. So I was curious what sort of regulations can be found in vedic scripture that describes how food should and should not be prepared. Any insight would be appreciated. Gauracandra

Just a quick comment. I'm reminded of a Russian history class I took in college. My professor mentioned that at one point the Russians were claiming that they invented baseball (a distinctively American sport). They had all sorts of analysis of how Russians had sports that involved hitting a ball with a stick. But if you think about it, this is very general. What matters in a sport are the rules, structure, specifics... without these, there really is not much else to do with a stick and ball, other than hit the ball with the stick. It was kind of funny, but basically it was just Russian propaganda trying to take the "glory" of this sport away from America. Gauracandra

The Shvu Slide continues....

Pretty weak Shvu...actually very weak. But this discussion has been very informative to me in relation to future discussions with you. When you can not even acknowledge such a simple point, which by any objective standard I have proven, then what is the point of discussing anything with you. Essentially, Shvu's argument comes down to this: "Those who favor Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita are wrong, and those who agree with me (Shvu) are right". You set up a criteria, and through logic, I showed that there are individuals, all scholars, who defeat your criteria. End of story. Gauracandra

Hi Sumeet, In my opinion it is of no use discussing this matter with Shvu further. I have conclusively proven him wrong in the forerunner to this posting (re: A Critical Review of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad Gita As It Is) and yet he continues to deny that which is obvious to any unbiased observer. For those not familiar with this point, I will quote again from Shvu: “Two kinds of people will favor the BG as it is. 1. People who belong to Prabhupada's system and think along his lines. 2. People who have not read other translations of the Gita. No matter how learned they may be, they are not in a position to know about the distortions which exist in this translation.” In response to this, I quoted a number of the most prestigious religious scholars in the country who praised Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad Gita translation. First, they are not his followers (scratch point 1) and second, they have most assuredly read other translations of the Gita (scratch point 2). In the course of conclusively disproving both of Shvu’s statements, I predicted that this would in no way change his mind. In fact, I knew he would do what he is famous for – “The Shvu Wiggle”, trying to wiggle the words around to give him an out. Personally, I think a better description is “The Shvu Slide”, simply because the alliteration makes it sound so much nicer. So how did he slide? Well here is his quote: “Anyway I must say that I consider the people whom you have mentioned above to belong to the second category. I don't believe that they bothered to compare translations and find out what the differences were and why. And those statements above don't say otherwise.” Now I think this is disingenuous at best. Essentially he is acknowledging that I am correct that these individuals are 1) not followers of Srila Prabhupada (scratch point 1) and 2) that these individuals are highly learned scholars of religious thought, who most assuredly have read other translations of the Bhagavad Gita. By the way, you may want to take a look at his response in “slow-motion” so as to see the slight additions he has made to his original point 2, this is what we call “The Shvu Slide”. Essentially he is saying “Show me a statement from someone who says “I have looked at other editions of the Gita, and here are the differences”. But that is not what point 2) says. Again, point 1 – not followers of Srila Prabhupada and point 2) have read other translations of the Bhagavad Gita. To suggest that the individuals I have quoted have not read other translations is disingenuous. Again, any objective observer will see this. But just for a moment, let me pull out one single quote that I gave. Here it is: “I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad Gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book.” Dr. Samuel D. Atkins Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University Now, let us focus in on Shvu’s original second point: “2) People who have not read other translations of the Gita. No matter how learned they may be, they are not in a position to know about the distortions which exist in this translation.” What is this position that one must be in? By Shvu’s statement it would appear that he places himself in such a “position to know about the distortions which exist in” it. So let me get this straight. Is he suggesting that DOCTOR Samuel D. Atkins, a PROFESSOR of SANSKRIT from PRINCETON University, is not in a “position to know about the distortions which exist”? First this is a PROFESSOR of SANSKRIT. A person with a Doctorate in Sanskrit. And what does he say “It is a most valuable work for the scholar…” He was so “impressed” by this “authoritative” translation that he would “recommend this edition to my students”. Certainly a person with a Doctorate in Sanskrit is in a position to know if any distortions exists in this translation. Certainly a person with a Doctorate in Sanskrit will have read other translations of the Bhagavad Gita, which negates point two of Shvu’s statement. To suggest otherwise is again disingenuous. But let us take this further. This is not simply a Professor of Sanskrit. This is a Professor of Sanskrit at PRINCETON University. You know – Princeton, one of the most elite Universities in the world. Princeton, as in up there with Harvard, Oxford, Stanford, and Yale. You know that Princeton? And yet Shvu seems to suggest that such an educated individual, well versed in Sanskrit, most assuredly having read many translations of the Bhagavad Gita, from one of the most prestigious Universities in the world --- is not “in a position to know about the distortions which exist in” it and by implication that Shvu is qualified. The fact is, I have conclusively disproven both points by Shvu. Any objective observer will see this. And yet he will not acknowledge this simple point. This is a Professor of Sanskrit, from Princeton University, who favors this translation. How do we know? Because he recommends its use by his students. So Sumeet, I think you see my point. If Shvu will not concede this simple point, which again is obvious to any objective observer, then certainly he will not listen to any points you make. He will just continue to do “The Shvu Slide” and be disingenuous. Gauracandra

Its a shame whats going on in Afghanistan right now. Apparently, the militant leadership that controls 95% of that country has ordered the destruction of all images of the Buddha, claiming them to be idolatrous. In the process they are destroying a piece of world history. Some of these statues are 2,300 years old. Its amazing to think that these statues have been around so long. They existed when Christ was cruxified, when the Vikings roamed the world, when the American Revolution took place, when man developed the light bulb ... and now some moron with a bazooka can tear down such a piece of world history. These were expressions of man's inner creativity. Some were over 170 feet tall. Sadly, I believe they have already been destroyed, despite international outrage at such an act. If you'd like to read an article on this you can go to: www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/03/afghan.buddhas.03/index.html Gauracandra

I think, by any objective standard, I have now disproven both points by Shvu. These individuals are not followers of Srila Prabhupada. And most assuredly they have read other translations of the Bhagavad-Gita. A number of them favor the translation so much so that they recommend its use as a textbook for the study of Indian religious thought. The quotes speak for themselves. Do I think by posting these quotes that I will convince Shvu or other detractors? No. Certainly he will try to find some other reason for criticizing this translation. He will no doubt follow up this post, trying to wiggle the words in his favor. In Latin I believe this is called “Argumentum ad absurdam” – meaning, continuing to argue a point proven conclusively wrong, for the sake of argument, in order to have the last word. Again, by any objective standard, I have disproven both points by Shvu. Gauracandra

“I can say that in the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is I have found explanations and answers to questions I had always posed regarding the interpretations of this sacred work, whose spiritual discipline I greatly admire….” Dr. Paul Lesourd, Author Professor Honoraire, Catholic University of Paris

“…It is a deeply felt, powerfully conceived and beautifully explained work. I don’t know whether to praise more this translation of the Bhagavad-Gita, its daring method of explanation, or the endless fertility of its ideas. I have never seen any other work on the Gita with such an important voice and style… It will occupy a significant place in the intellectual and ethical life of modern man for a long time to come.” Dr. Shaligram Shukla Professor of Linguistics, Georgetown University

“The scholarly world is again indebted to A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Although the Bhagavad-Gita has been translated many times, Prabhupada adds a translation of singular importance with his commentary….” Dr. J. Stillson Judah, Professor of the History of Religions and Director of Libraries Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley, California

“The increasing numbers of Western readers interested in classical Vedic thought have been done a service by Swami Bhaktivedanta. By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, he has increased our understanding manifold.” Dr. Edward C. Dimock, Jr. Department of South Asian Languages and Civilization University of Chicago

“I have had the opportunity of examining several volumes published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust and have found them to be of excellent quality and of great value for use in college classes on Indian religions. This is particularly true of the BBT edition and translation of the Bhagavad-Gita.” Dr. Frederick B. Underwood Professor of Religion, Columbia University

“I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad Gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book.” Dr. Samuel D. Atkins Professor of Sanskrit, Princeton University

“No work in all Indian literature is more quoted, because none is better loved, in the West, than the Bhagavad Gita. Translation of such a work demands not only knowledge of Sanskrit, but an inward sympathy with the theme and a verbal artistry. For the poem is a symphony in which God is seen in all things… The Swami does a real service for students by investing the beloved Indian epic with fresh meaning. Whatever our outlook may be, we should all be grateful for the labor that has lead to this illuminating work.” Dr. Geddes MacGregor, Emeritus Distinguished Professor of Philosophy University of Southern California

The following was stated by Shvu: “Two kinds of people will favor the BG as it is. 1. People who belong to Prabhupada's system and think along his lines. 2. People who have not read other translations of the Gita. No matter how learned they may be, they are not in a position to know about the distortions which exist in this translation.” I will now prove these two statements to be false. Below this posting are various quotes from people who are not followers of Srila Prabhupada. In addition they are highly learned individuals. But even more important, they are highly learned scholars of religious and philosophical thought. Such individuals, many of whom hold distinguished chairs at some of America’s best universities, most assuredly have read other translations of the Bhagavad-Gita. You will find quotes from Professors of Religion, from Professors of Sanskrit and Linguistics, and from Theologians. Here is just a small sampling of their praise of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita As It Is.