Sonic Yogi

One does not have to believe that the shakti Devi is supreme above all to be a shakta or worshiper of shakti.

Gaudiya Vaishnavas for example are worshipers of shakti in the form of Radha and the gopis.

They do not consider that Radha or the gopis are the creators or masters of the universe and all life, but they still worship shakti with the understanding that Bhagavan is most pleased to award liberation to the devotees of his devotees more than to those who ignore shakti worship and try to worship him without his shakti.

As I posted before, Gaudiya Vaishnavas are suddha-shakta.

They worship the shakti as Radharani, the form of pure devotion.

In the beginning the worship of Vasudeva or Krishna alone is beneficial, but the perfection of devotion can only be realized as shakta of Radha and her gopi expansions.

Isn't Krishna God?

 

Everything is Brahman..

Not exactly.

Maya is a transformation of brahman, but is not brahman proper.

Isn't Krishna God?

 

Everything is Brahman..

Prabhupada referred to Krishna as God many times, so it is good enough for me.

Brahman is a description not a name or a person.

God is brahman, but brahman is not God.

Like people are living but living is not a person.

Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon: Search Results

 

<!-- SQL query: select buch,st,en from tamil where buch=1 and (st regexp '[[:<:]]brahman[[:>:]]') order by st --> <table cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top">1</td> <td valign="top"> brahman</td> <td valign="top">n. (lit. `" growth "' , `" expansion "' , `" evolution "' , `" development "' `" swelling of the spirit or soul "'</td></tr></tbody></table>

So, Brahman is the nature of God, but Brahman is not God per se.

We cannot say that Brahman is God.

God is brahman.

Brahman describes God's nature, but brahman is not God.

So, we can close this topic now because brahman is not God no more than growth is a person.

A person grows, but growing is not a person.

Is this clear now?

What I found to be more fun and enjoyable than LSD was the psylicyben mushrooms.

LSD is a very harsh chemical trip.

Psylicyben was just a better trip.

Most usually I laughed constantly while tripping on the mushrooms.

Me and a friend had to walk out of a music concert once because were were laughing so much that the band members were giving us the evil eye.

Psylicyben is definitely more recommended for a novice who wants to experience psychedelics.

Then, also there is the peyote cactus which is also more enjoyable than LSD and which will also cause a lot of laughing.

Both of these are superior to LSD because they are organic substances and produce a more pleasurable experience.

LSD is just very harshly and extremely an intense psychedelic experience that drags on for up to 16 hours.

Psylicyben is the best psychedelic substance that produces the most enjoyable trip.

You must take us all for gullible fools if you think that we are going to buy into your claims of transmitting messages from Krishna via the medium of hallucinogens.

Do yourself a favor and stop acting like the insane lunatic that psychedelic substances turn you into.

I have been there and done that and lived to realize that hallucinogens are a deception and have NOTHING to do with spiritual realization.

It's a trap of illusion.

Try to get out as soon as you can and look to the Maha-mantra for spiritual realization.

In other words, you are saying "thou shall not kill" has nothing to do with religion.

 

Anyway, this is all subjective. One can just as easily say Prabhupada got bored with his marriage, had this secret desire to become famous and and used religion as the means to gain posterity.

 

Smilar criticisms can and are made on other Gurus like Osho, Sai, etc.

 

Cheers

You can say anything you want.

But, your opinion doesn't mean anything to most people on this forum who require some evidence from Vedic shastra to support their claims.

Your opinions are worthless.

They have no value and no spiritual merit.

You can set there at the keyboard and write one useless remark after another, but you are just wasting your time and energy on meaningless opinions that don't to you or anyone else any good.

I have never tried LSD actually, but have tried Hawaiian Baby Woodrose which contain LSA, somewhat similar I have heard. I am very thankful for what entheogens has done for me. I wouldn't even have been interested in spiritual matters if it had not been for cannabis.

I was involved back in the early 70's.

I had some rather uncomfortable trips on some of the tablet acid like Orange Barrel, Purple Barrel, Purple Microdot, Orange Sunshine etc. etc.

It wasn't until I got some of the really pure and potent blotters like Mr. Natural and Window Pane that I started to enjoy it without the side cramps you get from the tablets that have impurities of some sort.

Honestly, I really enjoyed LSD after I got used to doing it.

My first few trips were actually a little too heavy for me and I didn't really enjoy such an extreme departure from sanity.

People who have never done LSD have no idea how much self-control and patience it takes to get through 12 to 16 hours of heavy LSD.

Quite honestly, the first few trips were horrible and frightening.

It wasn't until I got some potent blotters and did them every day for a few days that I started to really get into it and actually really enjoy the trip.

When I stopped taking LSD I really didn't want to, but I went off to join the Hare Krishna movement and was able to avoid it by living in the temples.

When I stopped I actually loved LSD and was very regretful that I had to stop, but I was serious about Krishna consciousness and stopped because it was forbidden under the regulative principles.

Like prabhupada harekrishnas repeat the same error.Obviously prabhupada's knowledge of other religions is superficial.

 

"though shalt not kill" is one of the ten commandments of Old testament.

 

In The original hebrew bible(torah) it actually translates as

"though shalt not murder".

Yeah, for centuries the Bible said "though shalt not kill" till the Hare Krishna's challenged the Christians on killing of animals and then the Christians got together and made a new translation of the Bible that they thought would support their slaughterhouse culture and the butchering of countless innocent animals.

Fact is, the Bible, Christianity, Islam and all things Abrahamic are just idiotic religious beliefs manufactured by idiots like Apostle Paul and Mohammad.

They have nothing to do with God or religion.

It is all just so much evil creation of ignorant men with evil minds.

There is nothing religious in the Bible or the Quran.

They are just the writings of ignorant men with political issues who wanted to use God as a way to promote their ignorant political agendas.

Let us see.

 

 

 

Sure, no hindu worth his salt considers a nazi as their guru.

 

 

 

Spiritual?? Like how to Gas the jews

Actually, the traditional Hindu culture was monarchy.

I don't think you have any evidence that Hitler's Vaishnava guru advised him to gas the Jews.

So, you are offering empty, hollow and false arguments to defend your false pride as you cannot accept historical facts about who the Hindu was that had the most influence on Hitler.

I dont know of any vaishnava who advocates nazism

Maybe not, but Vedic culture was about spiritual communism and a monarchy.

Vedic culture was not a democracy.

You didn't get to vote in the Vedic empires.

You obeyed the King or you died.

savitri devi was not a Hindu guru.

 

Any fool can do a google search like the saying "any fool can pull a trigger".

That is your worthless statement.

The introduction of the book is entitled "Found alive in India: Hitler's Guru".

So, that you don't consider her a guru doesn't mean anything.

A guru is simply a spiritual teacher.

If she was teaching any Vedic knowledge to Hitler she would then be his guru.

Baba Ram Dass and LSD:

 

"Psychedelics helped me to escape.. albeit momentarily.. from the prison of my mind. It over-rode the habit patterns of thought and I was able to taste innocence again. Looking at sensations freshly without the conceptual overly was very profound." -Baba Ram Dass

LSD is something that most usually would be a very uncomfortable if not freakish and fearful experience for a person who had never done psychedelic chemicals.

It takes several experiences to really start to get a handle on it.

However, after repeated regular use a person can "get his head" and more or less master the psychedelic experience.

I remember after I got out of the Navy I went back to stay with my parents at home for a while and procured a large supply of LSD.

I did large doses daily for several weeks and neither one of my parents had any clue that I was "on drugs".

I was staying up rather late, but other than that they could not tell at all that I was taking LSD.

I had mastered the experience and had actually come to really enjoy LSD, but at that point I had passed beyond the stage of hallucinations and was just tripping without hallucinating.

In the stage of hallucinations I did see some very beautiful hallucinations, but somehow after regular use the hallucinations stopped.

I was actually quite habituated to LSD at one point and I only gave it up because I read in the books of Srila Prabhupada that LSD was forbidden.

Other than that I personally thought it to be a very useful substance that allowed me to peacefully meditate and do yoga all night long while everyone else was asleep.

It was a quick and easy way to an altered state of consciousness.

It was LSD that initially convinced me that there are altered states of consciousness that can be attained, though in Indian mysticism it takes a lot of yoga and pranayama to attain to an elevated state of consciousness.

What are those secret teachings? Can you provide references.

Anybody can do a Google search and find out.

Hitler's guru was a woman.

http://books.google.com/books?id=m6-5YC-pBk4C&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=Hitler%27s+guru&source=bl&ots=STi-g5mV_c&sig=vY5EwotdIA3XlTn3sTL_3TfItHM&hl=en&ei=svDxSbXkCMbJtgeSjcWyDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPP1,M1

if you would have studied history of hinduism you could have instantly known that beef was the favourite food of indra and agni . whatever is put in to the fire is a way of providing agni with naivedya . what about the cow or horse sacrifices then ?

 

yajnavalkas passion for meat was well documented and munusmriti specifically says that meat eating is not forbidden .

 

 

charak samhita page 86 recommends meat soup as a cure.

 

 

manu smriti chapter five ---

27. One may eat meat when it has been sprinkled with water, while Mantras were recited, when Brahmanas desire (one's doing it), when one is engaged (in the performance of a rite) according to the law, and when one's life is in danger.

 

 

 

lastly i must mention that im NOT ENCOURAGING MEAT EATING BY ANY MEANS. i said all these just to make you believe that there is a lot of difference between hinduism as taught to you by iskcon and hinduism as it actually was in historical times .

 

im merely protesting against your idiotic rigidity of thought . im personally a vegetarian

Whatever sloka you quoted from Manu smriti does not prove that meat-eating was the purpose of or part of Vedic animal sacrifices.

Nothing in the verse says anything about any meat consumption in regards to any animal sacrifice.

Anyway, Manu smriti is not instruction on attaining Moksha.

What is said there are simply rules and regulation for karma-kandiya and having nothing to do with yoga or moksha.

This forum deals with spiritual discussion not talking about Karma kanda rules for sense gratification.

Karma kanda and Manu smriti are guidelines for the conditioned souls who are not ready to adopt the path of yoga.

It has nothing to do with self-realization, bhakti, jnana or yoga.

Sure anybody can eat meat if they like, but will they attain mukti or moksha?

No, they won't.

They will more than likely come back in the next life as an animal, so yes go ahead and eat your meat and become what you eat.

that proves tantric sacrifices are also vedic , doesnt it ??

 

 

 

 

its a shame that you are so fond of fantasy stories at this mature age ( you said that you've heard a story 25 years ago .......just a post back ) .

animal sacrifices were animal sacrifices . there was nothing to bring them back to life . such absurd stories are fabricated in the later puranic ages when vegatrianism has already become a fashion among the educated . it was a idiotic attempt to justify the vedic sacrifices by some equally idotic brahmanas .

 

leaving everything else aside , why do you think a priest would sacrifice a horse or a cow and then bring them back to life ? the whole intention of a sacrifice is to offer something in a spirit of surrender . wouldnt bringing the horse alive amount to dishonesty ? should you bring back a horse to life after offering its blood to god ? that would be like offering a nice temple to the lord and then residing in it yourself !!! think rationally !! it shall also amount to a defiance of god's natural laws . do you think that would have pleased the lord ?

 

or do you suggest that it was some brahminical hocus pocus magic show intended to please the gods ????

 

gomedh (cow sacrifices ) and ashwamedh (horse sacrifices) was the practice of the day . there's nothing to be ashamed of !! religion and culture are never static but are on a continuous change . the practice that were naturall than might not be natural today . but that doesnt mean i shall distort facts to make them appear in a way i like !! admit it !! its historical truth .

You can't produce any proof that there was any eating of meat in regards to animal sacrifices in the Vedic ages.

Show some proof from shastra that there was any eating of meat in regards to an animal sacrifices.

Animal sacrifices were performed in Treta yuga and stopped by Vedic regulations in Dwarpara yuga.

So, that means that by Vedic law animal sacrifices were supposed to stop 869,000 years ago at the beginning of Treta yuga.

That also means that any animal sacrifice in the last 869000 years is not sanctioned by Vedic law and was therefore useless.

In your last post, you said karma is accrued by the killer and almost no karma is associated with the eater. And where is this vedic law on meat-eating, anyway?

 

 

 

If you are disagreeing with the mainstream, you will have to prove it. Else, your position has no value as I explained earlier.

 

 

 

Dude?? The whole concept of Vedic religion was founded on animal sacrifice. There are grand stories of how the system eventually died down to be replaced by Bhakti and how Shankara, Madhva etc., were still opposing and replacing sacrificial animals with flour animals as late as the 13th century AD. Again, you have to learn more which means looking beyond your little iskcon world.

 

 

 

Prove that meat is not acceptable to Vishnu. The cow either goes to heaven or evolves into a better life, which would make Vishnu happy. Cultural aspects of the Indian sub continent do not constitute proof.

 

Cheers

Animal sacrifice in Vedic culture was not about killing an animal, making an offering and eating the meat.

Vedic animal sacrifices were meant for proving the power of Vedic mantras.

The animal went into the fire as an old animal and came out as a young rejuvenated horse.

Mostly, they were horse sacrifices where the Brahmans tested the power of the Vedic mantras by restoring the horse to full youthful life.

Horse sacrifices for Vishnu were NEVER meant for the purpose of offering meat to Vishnu or the eating of meat by Brahmanas or anyone.

You are totally ignorant about the true meaning and purpose of a Vedic horse sacrifice.

In a horse sacrifice the old body of the horse was burned and a new, youthful horse was produced in the Vedic sacrifice.

As with most everything, the so-called animal sacrifices of the Vedic brahmanas have been misunderstood and the very idea has been abused by low-class, ignorant Hindus for thousands of years who like to claim the meat-eating and animal sacrifices were Vedic.

Like the bogus caste system of India, the concept of animal sacrifice has as well been abused by ignorant Hindus for their evil purposes.

In fact, this abuse of the concept of animal sacrifice in the name of the Vedas is said by acharyas to be the reason for the advent of Buddha avatar who rejected the Vedas and decried animal sacrifice and animal killing.

Is it true that Srila Prabhupada`s Guru, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarawasti Maharaj, was also Adolph Hitler`s Guru?

No. It is not true.

I think the story goes that Bon Maharaja, the disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur tried to preach to Hitler and even had an appointment to meet with him.

Something happened and Hitler had to attend to some other important things.

I guess as Bon Maharaja was waiting outside the room to get his audience with Hitler, Hitler walked out of the room and down the hall and simply nodded and waved to Bon Maharaja in gesture.

That was the end of the attempt to get to Hitler and preach as best I know.

I am not sure it was Bon Maharaja, but it was some disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

I vaguely remember this story that I heard some 25 years ago.

Sonic Yogi, is this the same beings that Terrence McKenna talks about when smoking DMT.

 

Heres what Terrence McKenna says about those self-transforming machine elves:

 

At about minute or two of a DMT trip, according to McKenna, one may burst through a chrysanthemum-like mandala, and find:

 

There's a whole bunch of entities waiting on the other side, saying "How wonderful that you're here! You come so rarely! We're so delighted to see you!"

 

They're like jewelled self-dribbling basketballs and there are many of them and they come pounding toward you and they will stop in front of you and vibrate, but then they do a very disconcerting thing, which is they jump into your body and then they jump back out again and the whole thing is going on in a high-speed mode where you're being presented with thousands of details per second and you can't get a hold on [them ...] and these things are saying "Don't give in to astonishment", which is exactly what you want to do. You want to go nuts with how crazy this is, and they say "Don't do that. Pay attention to what we're doing".

 

What they're doing is making objects with their voices, singing structures into existence. They offer things to you, saying "Look at this! Look at this!" and as your attention goes towards these objects you realise that what you're being shown is impossible. It's not simply intricate, beautiful and hard to manufacture, it's impossible to make these things. The nearest analogy would be the Fabergé eggs, but these things are like the toys that are scattered around the nursery inside a U.F.O., celestial toys, and the toys themselves appear to be somehow alive and can sing other objects into existence, so what's happening is this proliferation of elf gifts, which are moving around singing, and they are saying "Do what we are doing" and they are very insistent, and they say "Do it! Do it! Do it!" and you feel like a bubble inside your body beginning to move up toward your mouth, and when it comes out it isn't sound, it's vision. You discover that you can pump "stuff" out of your mouth by singing, and they're urging you to do this. They say "That's it! That's it! Keep doing it!".

 

We're now at minute 4.5 [of the trip] and you speak in a kind of glossolalia. There is a spontaneous outpouring of syntax unaccompanied by what is normally called "meaning". After a minute or so of this the whole thing begins to collapse in on itself and they begin to physically move away from you. Usually their final shot is that they wave goodbye and say "Deja vu! Deja vu!".

Actually, you are right.

I was probably thinking of DMT when I mentioned the glowing buddha and the little people.

Joe Rogan has done the stuff and describes it in this youtube video.

I have never taken the stuff.

I was from the LSD school back in the 70's.

Mushrooms, peyote THC etc.

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But Srila Prabhupada Himself Says That In Self Defence One Can Kill

So Thou Shall Not Kill Can Be Intepreted In Different Ways

It is not what Prabhupada said, but it is a Vedic law that an attacker can be killed in self-defense.

Prabhupada did not make any rules.

He only taught the Vedic or the Vaishnava laws.

That does not wash at all -

 

1) Most meat eaters on the planet never killed a single animal in their lives. Eating a Whopper is not the same as slaughtering a cow. And Jesus did not say "Thou shall not eat meat". He associated with fishermen, ate lamb, etc.

 

2) When Jesus said "thou shall not kill" he talked about killing humans. That is how the billion+ Christians of the world have interpreted it. Now if a small group of modern Bengali Vaishnavas choose to interpret the Bible differently, who cares? Their interpretation is worth exactly nothing and is an obvious farce.

 

3) The Mahbharata has the story of a butcher who was enlightened - to illustrate this very important point.

 

In short, your meat-eating theory has no scriptural support. It's origin lies in the minds of some Brahmanas from 2000 years ago.

 

Cheers

Lots of ideas, but unfortunately they are all wrong.

Eating a hamburger is animal killing according to Vedic law.

Who kills the animal, who butchers it, who sells the meat, who cooks it and who eats it are all implicated in the sin of animal killing and that is in Vedic law.

"though shalt not kill" does not apply only to humans.

That is another false interpretation that bogus "Christians" have been making for many years.

Animal flesh has never been mentioned in any Vedic text as being fit for offering to Vishnu.

It is not anything manufactured by any brahmans from 2000 years ago.

The Vedic rule is to eat only what has been offered to Vishnu.

Meat is not acceptable to Vishnu and this is not food in Vedic culture that goes back millions of years in Puranic history.

Many of the histories in the Puranas go back millions of years.

They are not something new from a few thousand years ago.

I HAVE A DOUBT ON THIS

IF THAT WAS TRUE THEN WHY WOULD JESUS HELP THE FISHER MAN TO CATCH FISH

AND ALSO THE SOLDIERS AND PEOPLE OF LAW KILL CRIMINALS

IS THAT NOT KILLING

BUT THAT IS JUSTIFIED IS IT?

In that part of the world at that time there was scarcity of grains, fruits and vegetables.

So, even it says in Veda that in emergency in absence of sufficient food grains that even meat and fish can be eaten.

Srila Prabhupada recommended that if they eat meat that to eat the lower animals first like fish, pigs or dogs but to not eat the cow under any circumstance.

So, eating fish is not much different than killing plants which also have life.

Ultimately, even the vegetarian kills plants and insects in the production of food.

So, the Vedic standard is to not eat meat if at all possible.

In emergency you can.

Even Prabhupada recommended that animals can die naturally and then the meat can be eaten without any bad karma of killing the animal.

It is not the meat-eating that is so bad, but the killing of the animal that is the bad karma.

In emergency then fish is the first kind of meat that humans can eat with minimum karma as fish are very low life forms.

Fruit-of-the-ganga...........

I chew it without swallowing, this way it works

 

From Wikipedia:

Chewing

 

The method of chewing the leaves may also be employed. However, salvinorin A is generally considered to be inactive when orally ingested, as the chemical is effectively deactivated by the gastrointestinal system.[44] Therefore, the ‘quid’ of leaves is held in the mouth as long as possible in order to facilitate absorption of the active constituents through the oral mucosa. Chewing consumes more of the plant than smoking, and produces a longer-lasting experience.

It takes a large mouthful if chewed and the effect are not nearly as extreme as smoking the salvia concentrations in extract.

If you really want to see the little people that can bee seen on Salvia you must smoke a concentrated extract.

Some people see a Buddha-like shining being that glows with radiance.

HA......HA........HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

and what exactly is the difference between christianity proper and psuedo christianity ? maybe you are trying to sugggest ideal christianity . but remember that there is nothing like ideal christianity or ideal hinduism . it is an utopian concept that never existed .

 

either prabhupada was relying on this utopian absurdity or he is genuinely meaning practicing christianity .

 

 

you're absurd !!!!!!!!!

No. It is very simple.

Jesus said "though shalt not kill".

Animal killers cannot be accepted as followers of Jesus or as Christians.

Actually, the term Christian was manufactured by Paul I think.

Jesus never mentioned any term like "Christian".

Jesus instructed to become "sons of God".

Jesus never manufactured that term.

Paul manufactured that idea and of course he was also not very smart to get himself beheaded in Rome.

The "Christian" religion was manufactured by Paul and built upon and therefore we have "Roman Catholic" and so many other "Christian" sects.

Ultimately, Srila Prabhupada was just being very diplomatic and gave Muslims and Christians a lot more credit than they deserved.

That is the difference between him and apostle Paul who was not so smart and was beheaded for being too outspoken about the cult he was promoting.

Wrong Again. You are still holding on to the Shaivism = Advaita theory, which is wrong.

 

Shaivas see their final abode as Kailsas where they will reside with Shiva. Most of them never even heard of Brahman nor are are they interested.

 

There is world beyond the little ikscon world you lvie in, in case you want to explore and learn the truth.

 

Cheers

There is no Kailasa mentioned in any Purana as existing within the Paravyoma.

Kailasa is a planet in this material universe.

It is not a transcendental planet.

So, your argument cannot stand as there is no eternal Kailasa mentioned in any Purana.

Kailasa will perish at the time of Pralaya and Shiva will merge back into Lord Vishnu and come back out at the time of the next creation.