Sonic Yogi

Just as in a tug-of-war, the single mind of Lord Caitanya was attracted in five directions by the five transcendental attributes of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Thus the Lord became unconscious.

When Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu realized Lord Jagannātha to be Kṛṣṇa Himself, Lord Caitanya's five senses immediately became absorbed in attraction for the five attributes of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

PURPORT

Śrī Kṛṣṇa's beauty attracted the eyes of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa's singing and the vibration of His flute attracted the Lord's ears, the transcendental fragrance of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet attracted His nostrils, Kṛṣṇa's transcendental sweetness attracted His tongue, and Kṛṣṇa's bodily touch attracted the Lord's sensation of touch. Thus each of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's five senses was attracted by one of the five attributes of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

One day, while Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was looking at Lord Jagannātha in the temple, Lord Jagannātha appeared to be personally Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the son of Nanda Mahārāja.

Actually, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was always merged in ecstatic emotion, but just as a potter's wheel turns without the potter's touching it, the Lord's bodily activities, like bathing, going to the temple to see Lord Jagannātha, and taking lunch, went on automatically.

The Lord would maintain Himself in three states of consciousness: sometimes He merged totally in ecstatic emotion, sometimes He was in partial external consciousness, and sometimes He was in full external consciousness.

Thus Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu forgot Himself throughout the entire day and night, being merged in an ocean of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa.

The ocean of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa is very difficult to understand, even for such demigods as Lord Brahmā. By enacting His pastimes, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu submerged Himself in that ocean, and His heart was absorbed in that love. Thus He exhibited in various ways the exalted position of transcendental love for Kṛṣṇa.

can you tell me clearly about lord shiva

i have read brahm samhita in which lord shiva is considered non different from krishna just as yogurt from milk but differentat the same time

ALSO JAGAT GURU KRIPALU MAHARAJ WEBSITE SAYS THAT LORD SHIV, DURGA ,RAM ,VISHNU AND KRISHNA AND NRAHMAN MAKE 6 FORMS OF GOD.

http://www.jkp.org/path_to_God/sanatan_dharm_the_eternal_religion.html

ALSO THERE IS THE PRAYER THAT BRAHMA ADRESSES LORD SHIVA IN SRIMAAD BHAGWATAM.

Srimad Bhagavatam explains that Lord Shiva is a form of Garbhodakshayi Vishnu that has undergone a kind of transformation in order to be in contact with the material energy Durga Devi.

Lord Shiva is in fact in the category of Godhead and not one of the jiva souls like even Lord Brahma, Indra or Agni.

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.88.3

 

śrī-śuka uvāca

 

śivaḥ śakti-yutaḥ śaśvat

tri-lińgo guṇa-saḿvṛtaḥ

vaikārikas taijasaś ca

tāmasaś cety ahaḿ tridhā

 

SYNONYMS

 

śrī-śukaḥ uvāca — Śrī Śuka said; śivaḥ — Lord Śiva; śakti — with his energy, material nature; yataḥ — united; śaśvat — always; tri — three; lińgaḥ — whose manifest features; guṇa — by the modes; saḿvṛtaḥ — prayed to; vaikārikaḥ — false ego in the mode of goodness; taijasaḥ — false ego in the mode of passion; ca — and; tāmasaḥ — false ego in mode of ignorance; ca — and; iti — thus; aham — the principle of material ego; tridhā — threefold.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Śrī Śukadeva said: Lord Śiva is always united with his personal energy, the material nature. Manifesting himself in three features in response to the entreaties of nature's three modes, he thus embodies the threefold principle of material ego in goodness, passion and ignorance

In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.88.3) it is stated that Lord Śiva is a combination of three kinds of transformed consciousness known as vaikārika, taijasa and tāmasa.

Similarly, by expanding Himself as Lord Śiva, the Supreme Lord is engaged when there is a need to annihilate the universe. Lord Śiva, in association with māyā, has many forms, which are generally numbered at eleven. Lord Śiva is not one of the living entities; he is, more or less, Kṛṣṇa Himself. The example of milk and yogurt is often given in this regard — yogurt is a preparation of milk, but still yogurt cannot be used as milk. Similarly, Lord Śiva is an expansion of Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot act as Kṛṣṇa, nor can we derive the spiritual restoration from Lord Śiva that we derive from Kṛṣṇa. The essential difference is that Lord Śiva has a connection with material nature, but Viṣṇu or Lord Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with material nature.

The Viṣṇu incarnation, although master of the modes of goodness within each universe, is in no way in touch with the influence of material nature. Although Viṣṇu is equal to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is the original source. Viṣṇu is a part, but Kṛṣṇa is the whole. This is the version given by Vedic literatures. In Brahma-saḿhitā the example is given of an original candle which lights a second candle. Although both candles are of equal power, one is accepted as the original, and the other is said to be kindled from the original. The Viṣṇu expansion is like the second candle. He is as powerful as Kṛṣṇa, but the original Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā and Lord Śiva are obedient servants of the Supreme Lord, and the Supreme Lord as Viṣṇu is an expansion of Kṛṣṇa.

The very term "Bhagavat" as in Devi Bhagavat in fact means "in relationship to Bhagavan".

So, the title of the Purana called Devi Bhagavat indicates that the book predominantly relates knowledge of Durga Devi in regards to her position concerning Bhagavan.

It relates the position of Devi in terms of her relationship to Bhagavan who ultimately is none other than Lord Krishna.

So, the very title of the Purana suggests that Devi must in fact be understand in regards to her position with the absolute Bhagavan Sri Krishna or Lord Vishnu.

The couple of verses that seem to promote Devi as supreme above Vishnu are taken out of context and abused for dishonest purposes.

The whole body of the book most certainly shows Vishnu as supreme, though dishonest people can take a couple of verses out of context and try to show supremacy of Devi, ignoring the verses that explain the supreme position of Lord Vishnu.

A thorough, scholarly study of the Devi Bhagavat most certainly will not show Devi as the Supreme Isvara Mukunda.

Such a conclusion can only be promoted by taking a few select verses out of context ignoring the many verses that show otherwise.

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Devi Bhagavat is only supreme in tamasic Puranas</td></tr></tbody></table>sonic yogi tell one text that says devi bhagawatam is tamasic

Puranas are classified as sattvic, rajasic and tamasic based upon which god is most important in the Purana.

The Puranas where Vishnu, who is the deity of sattva guna, is most important are the sattvic Puranas.

The Puranas where Lord Brahma, the deity of raja guna is most important are the Puranas of the mode of passion.

The Puranas where Lord Shiva, who is the deity of tama guna, is most important are the tamasic Puranas.

Since Durga Devi is the shakti of Lord Shiva, the deity of tama-guna, the Devi Bhagavat then by default must be classified as for the persons in tama-guna who deny the supremecy of Lord Vishnu.

The Devi Bhagavat is not in the list of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic Puranas because it is such an obscure and remote Purana that the Vedic sages didn't even give it in the list of important Puranas to be classified.

Durga Devi is the shakti of Lord Shiva and therefore Devi worship is within the same category of the tama guna.

Only worship of Vishnu is in the mode of sattva guna.

Devi worship is in tama guna because there is ignorance of the truth about the supremecy of Lord Vishnu who is a form of Lord Krishna.

This is standard Vedic understanding.

 

 

true !! neither would they accept chaitanya charitamrita , brahma samhita , large sections of mahabharata and authenticity of krishna's existence .............. that is , if you are so eager to talk about vedic researchers and scholars .

Wrong, in fact many of the followers of Mahaprabhu were great Vedic scholars.

Mahaprabhu himself was a great Vedic scholar and Brahmana.

That is the difference between the Devi cult and Gaudiyas. The Gaudiyas have established Gaudiya siddhanta on the basis of the Vedic shastra.

The shaktas have only the Devi Bhagavat to propound a claim that cannot otherwise be supported with the Vedic shastra.

But isn´t the jivatma also consisting of sat-cit-ananda vigraha?

Really, show me any shastric statement that says that the jiva is sat-cit-ananda-vigraha.

I am eager to see shastic statements to support your idea.

sonic yogi

devi bhagwatam is also a purana

it is like srimad bhagwatam

 

also i will give you about a text which shows supremacy of the devi

posting it on the other thread

No, that is not my point.

Vyasadeva himself said that Srimad Bhagavatam was the commentary on Vedanta Sutra and the essence of Vedic knowledge.

Devi Bhagavat is only supreme in tamasic Puranas, but Srimad Bhagavatam is the Purana most highly proclaimed by Vyasadeva the compiler of Vedas.

No Vedic scholar will claim Devi Bhagavat as topmost Purana.

That is only told by those who don't know Vedic siddhanta.

HE Has A Point But The Cult Who Beleive Bhagwati To Be Supreme Is Small And Is Only Limited To Places Such As Where You Live

 

BUT EVEN THEY BELIEVE I THINK IN WHAT YOU SAY-

THAT DEVI IS IS A MANIFESTATION OF BRAHMAN.

Everything is a manifestation of Brahman.

Nothing can exist outside of Brahman.

Even maya is a transformation of Brahman.

It is not special thing to say that Durga Devi or any goddess is a manifestation of Brahman.

Maya means to see something as not Brahman.

Because, in reality everything is manifesting out of Brahman.

god is sum total of all living beings?

I thought gaudiya vaishnavs did not believe that.

IF THAT IS TRUE THEN WOULDNT GOD BECOME LESS IF JIVAS ARE SEPERATED FROM HIM

No.

Here is a verse in Sri Isopanisad that explains how and who he would not become less by generating unlimited living entities.

Śrī Īśopaniṣad Invocation

 

oḿ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaḿ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate

pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya

pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate

 

SYNONYMS

 

oḿ — the Complete Whole; pūrṇam — perfectly complete; adaḥ — that; pūrṇam — perfectly complete; idam — this phenomenal world; pūrṇāt — from the all-perfect; pūrṇam — complete unit; udacyate — is produced; pūrṇasya — of the Complete Whole; pūrṇam — completely, all; ādāya — having been taken away; pūrṇam — the complete balance; eva — even; avaśiṣyate — is remaining.

 

TRANSLATION

 

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

 

PURPORT

 

The Complete Whole, or the Supreme Absolute Truth, is the complete Personality of Godhead. Realization of impersonal Brahman or of Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is incomplete realization of the Absolute Complete. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha [bs. 5.1]. Realization of impersonal Brahman is realization of His sat feature, or His aspect of eternity, and Paramātmā realization is realization of His sat and cit features, His aspects of eternity and knowledge. But realization of the Personality of Godhead is realization of all the transcendental features — sat, cit and ānanda, bliss. When one realizes the Supreme Person, he realizes these aspects of the Absolute Truth in their completeness. Vigraha means "form." Thus the Complete Whole is not formless. If He were formless, or if He were less than His creation in any other way, He could not be complete. The Complete Whole must contain everything both within and beyond our experience; otherwise He cannot be complete.

 

The Complete Whole, the Personality of Godhead, has immense potencies, all of which are as complete as He is. Thus this phenomenal world is also complete in itself. The twenty-four elements of which this material universe is a temporary manifestation are arranged to produce everything necessary for the maintenance and subsistence of this universe. No other unit in the universe need make an extraneous effort to try to maintain the universe. The universe functions on its own time scale, which is fixed by the energy of the Complete Whole, and when that schedule is completed, this temporary manifestation will be annihilated by the complete arrangement of the Complete Whole.

 

All facilities are given to the small complete units (namely the living beings) to enable them to realize the Complete Whole. All forms of incompleteness are experienced due to incomplete knowledge of the Complete Whole. The human form of life is a complete manifestation of the consciousness of the living being, and it is obtained after evolving through 8,400,000 species of life in the cycle of birth and death. If in this human life of full consciousness the living entity does not realize his completeness in relation to the Complete Whole, he loses the chance to realize his completeness and is again put into the evolutionary cycle by the law of material nature.

 

Because we do not know that there is a complete arrangement in nature for our maintenance, we make efforts to utilize the resources of nature to create a so-called complete life of sense enjoyment. Because the living entity cannot enjoy the life of the senses without being dovetailed with the Complete Whole, the misleading life of sense enjoyment is illusion. The hand of a body is a complete unit only as long as it is attached to the complete body. When the hand is severed from the body, it may appear like a hand, but it actually has none of the potencies of a hand. Similarly, living beings are part and parcel of the Complete Whole, and if they are severed from the Complete Whole, the illusory representation of completeness cannot fully satisfy them.

 

The completeness of human life can be realized only when one engages in the service of the Complete Whole. All services in this world — whether social, political, communal, international or even interplanetary — will remain incomplete until they are dovetailed with the Complete Whole. When everything is dovetailed with the Complete Whole, the attached parts and parcels also become complete in themselves.

If Durga Devi is Bhagavan, then wouldn't that be Bhagavani ?

The cult of Hindus who think that Durga Devi is supreme above Siva, Vishnu or Krishna is a relatively small cult.

Most Hindus believe in a male God either as Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu or Krishna.

It is laughable that anyone would seriously propose that Durga Devi is the supreme being above Shiva, Vishnu or Krishna.

Hindus brought up in their particular family traditions find it almost impossible to rationally approach the Vedic siddhanta.

They feel some obligation to just blindly accept and follow the family traditional god and they are not willing to intelligently and impartially study the Vedic shastra like Upanisads and Puranas.

Vyasadeva himself said that Srimad Bhagavatam would be his own commentary on Brahma-sutra, but many Hindus ignore that and try to elevate some other Purana above the one that Vyasadeva himself said was the most elevated commentary on Vedanta Sutra.

If the compiler of the Vedas says that Srimad Bhagavatam is the essence of the Vedanta Sutra, then shouldn't that give us a clue as to which Purana is the topmost?

ok

Do you agree or not agree?

What is the point of the topic?

the jeev can become one with the brahman

scriptures do agree with it.

so you become a part of that collective consciosness after moksh as baba avdhoot shivananad says

so you can become god

or we cant?

The concept of becoming god is very crazy.

Because, god is the sum total of all living beings.

To become God would mean that you in effect become everything and everyone.

How can any reasonable, rational person possibly imagine that he can in fact become everything and everyone and know the hearts and minds of all living beings as God does?

The Gaudiya acharyas explain that the jiva is qualitatively ONE with god, but that in quantity the jiva is just a very finite particle of God.

So, the jiva is spirit as God is spirit, but God is the supreme spirit from whom all the other spirit souls come from.

So, no, the jiva can never become God.

The jiva can merge into the existence of God as a partial aspect of the infinite God, but the jiva can never fully become the Absolute Whole Brahman whom we know as God, Vishnu or Krishna in Vedic shastra.

The Paramatmavadi yogis are aiming at merging back into the existence of God and in one sense they "become God" but they only become a small portion of the infinite, they do not become the Absolute Whole.

Becoming God is not the highest possible attainment for the soul.

Above "becoming God" the jiva can actually control God through pure devotion.

So, the jiva cannot become God wholly, but the jiva can control God through pure love and devotion, therefore the bhaktas are above the Paramatmavadi yogis who are merging into Paramatma and identifying themselves with God, though in fact they are not wholly God.

There is something to the old Hindu idea of "becoming God" but it is mostly misunderstood because of imperfect understanding of how the jiva can merge into the existence of the Paramatma.

However, the Paramatma is only a partial representation of the Supreme Absolute and therefore merging into Paramatma is not tantamount to becoming God in absolute values.

I agree, atomic Jeeva cannot become Brahm.

 

But can you really prove your following claims?

Maybe you should read this.

Bhagavad-gītā As It Is 4.24

 

brahmārpaṇaḿ brahma havir

brahmāgnau brahmaṇā hutam

brahmaiva tena gantavyaḿ

brahma-karma-samādhinā

 

SYNONYMS

 

brahma — spiritual in nature; arpaṇam — contribution; brahma — the Supreme; haviḥ — butter; brahma — spiritual; agnau — in the fire of consummation; brahmaṇā — by the spirit soul; hutam — offered; brahma — spiritual kingdom; eva — certainly; tena — by him; gantavyam — to be reached; brahma — spiritual; karma — in activities; samādhinā — by complete absorption.

 

TRANSLATION

 

A person who is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is sure to attain the spiritual kingdom because of his full contribution to spiritual activities, in which the consummation is absolute and that which is offered is of the same spiritual nature.

 

PURPORT

 

How activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness can lead one ultimately to the spiritual goal is described here. There are various activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and all of them will be described in the following verses. But, for the present, just the principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is described. A conditioned soul, entangled in material contamination, is sure to act in the material atmosphere, and yet he has to get out of such an environment. The process by which the conditioned soul can get out of the material atmosphere is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For example, a patient who is suffering from a disorder of the bowels due to overindulgence in milk products is cured by another milk product, namely curds. The materially absorbed conditioned soul can be cured by Kṛṣṇa consciousness as set forth here in the Gītā. This process is generally known as yajña, or activities (sacrifices) simply meant for the satisfaction of Viṣṇu, or Kṛṣṇa. The more the activities of the material world are performed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or for Viṣṇu only, the more the atmosphere becomes spiritualized by complete absorption. The word brahma (Brahman) means "spiritual." The Lord is spiritual, and the rays of His transcendental body are called brahmajyoti, His spiritual effulgence. Everything that exists is situated in that brahmajyoti, but when the jyoti is covered by illusion (māyā) or sense gratification, it is called material. This material veil can be removed at once by Kṛṣṇa consciousness; thus the offering for the sake of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the consuming agent of such an offering or contribution, the process of consumption, the contributor, and the result are — all combined together — Brahman, or the Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth covered by māyā is called matter. Matter dovetailed for the cause of the Absolute Truth regains its spiritual quality. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the process of converting the illusory consciousness into Brahman, or the Supreme. When the mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is said to be in samādhi, or trance. Anything done in such transcendental consciousness is called yajña, or sacrifice for the Absolute. In that condition of spiritual consciousness, the contributor, the contribution, the consumption, the performer or leader of the performance, and the result or ultimate gain — everything — becomes one in the Absolute, the Supreme Brahman. That is the method of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

The author of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Vyāsadeva, first offers his respectful obeisances unto the paraḿ satyam (Absolute Truth), and because the paraḿ satyam is the ultimate source of all energies, the paraḿ satyam is the Supreme Person. The gods or the controllers are undoubtedly persons, but the paraḿ satyam from whom the gods derive powers of control is the Supreme Person. The Sanskrit word īśvara (controller) conveys the import of God, but the Supreme Person is called the parameśvara, or the supreme īśvara. The Supreme Person, or parameśvara, is the supreme conscious personality, and because He does not derive any power from any other source, He is supremely independent. In the Vedic literatures Brahmā is described as the supreme god or the head of all other gods like Indra, Candra and Varuṇa, but the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam confirms that even Brahmā is not independent as far as his power and knowledge are concerned. He received knowledge in the form of the Vedas from the Supreme Person who resides within the heart of every living being. That Supreme Personality knows everything directly and indirectly. Individual infinitesimal persons, who are parts and parcels of the Supreme Personality, may know directly and indirectly everything about their bodies or external features, but the Supreme Personality knows everything about both His external and internal features.

who says it is paap.

if god is one then

if god is one then then why do you say gods

which god to serve

The conception of God and the conception of Absolute Truth are not on the same level. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam hits on the target of the Absolute Truth. The conception of God indicates the controller, whereas the conception of the Absolute Truth indicates the summum bonum or the ultimate source of all energies. There is no difference of opinion about the personal feature of God as the controller because a controller cannot be impersonal. Of course modern government, especially democratic government, is impersonal to some extent, but ultimately the chief executive head is a person, and the impersonal feature of government is subordinate to the personal feature. So without a doubt whenever we refer to control over others we must admit the existence of a personal feature. Because there are different controllers for different managerial positions, there may be many small gods. According to the Bhagavad-gītā any controller who has some specific extraordinary power is called a vibhūtimat sattva, or controller empowered by the Lord. There are many vibhūtimat sattvas, controllers or gods with various specific powers, but the Absolute Truth is one without a second. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam designates the Absolute Truth or the summum bonum as the paraḿ satyam.

Actually, the Gaudiya Vaishnavas have been described as shaktas.

Srila Sridhar Maharaja made the point that the Gaudiya Vaishnavas are suddha-shaktas or worshipers of the pure spiritual shakti of Krishna.

The point lost on most shaktas is that each shakti or power or energy has a source.

We know in this world by looking all around that there is a source to all the energy.

We have nuclear powerplants that create this energy or release this energy for use as electricity.

So, the very idea that shakti or Devi has no controller or source is against all the teachings of the Vedas on shakti and shaktiman.

The Vedic siddhanta clearly established that shaktiman is the source of the shakti, but that under certain conditions the Shaktiman agrees to become subservient to the Shakti.

So, in the Devi Bhagavat what we find is the Shakta siddhanta that in fact yes, Vishnu is subordinate to Devi in some ways but what the shaktas fail to grasp is that Vishnu agrees to be subordinate to Devi for the purpose of the material creation.

However, through out all the Vedic conclusions we always find that the Shaktiman is the owner and controller of the Shakti even though sometimes for his own lila he chooses to be subordinate to her.

This Devi Bhagavat simply emphasis this aspect of the Divine play where Lord Vishnu assumes subordination to Devi as part of his divine lila.

However, the Shaktas have taken this concept out of context in abject denial of the Vedic conclusions about the Shaktiman and the Shakti.

So, yes Shakta is the topmost position in self-realization if in fact it is Suddha-shakta.

The Devi worshipers are not suddha-shakta.

They are misra-shakta because their devotion is not pure due to not understanding the Supreme position of Lord Vishnu/Krishna.

Devi Bhagavat:

V

10-13. Then they, for the sake of success in Deva's well, went to the region of Vaikuntha to meet with the Deva Janârdana, the Lord of sacrifices. There the Devas, not finding Visnu, came to know by their Dhyân (meditation) where Bhagavân Visnu was staying and thither they went. They saw that the Lord Visnu, the Deva of the Devas was lying unconscious, being under the arms of Yoganidrâ (the yogic sleep). Therefore they took their seats there. Seeing the Lord of the universe asleep, Brahmâ, Rudra and the other Devas became anxious.