Guruvani

well, I think that he had a valid point as far as the mundane outlook is concerned. After all, for people like him, God is nowhere to be seen. His thinking is; If there is a God where is he? I don't see him anywhere. Why should God hide from us? If he exists all he has to do is show himself and the whole world will see and believe. Actually, there is a lot of common sense in what he is saying. The problem is; God is beyond common sense. He is transcendental to this whole illusion that we accept as reality. What the actor has failed to understand is that we must meet God on his terms and not ours. He has agreed to reveal himself to us through his devotees alone. If we are serious and sincere to find God, he can be found within our own hearts. But, we are so selfish and blind that we cannot even see God within our own soul. Everyday he has been given intuitive knowledge to struggle and survive in this world but he never bothered to stop and ask about where that intuitive knowledge was coming from within his own heart.

Reincarnation is about being reborn over and over according to ones Karma, his mindset and the adminstrative judgements of the demigods in control of such things. Some of your dreams could be mental impressions from past lives or they could just be manufactured in your mind from impressions stored there. Dreams are not to be taken very seriously. They usually result from oversleeping or eating before bedtime. Purification of your hygiene and regulation of proper sleep habits of 5 to 6 hours a night should eliminate most dreams. Dreaming usually occurs in the stage of deepest sleep at the end of the night when we should actually be out of bed. If you get up early in the morning and practice spiritual disciplines, avoid over-eating and over-sleeping you should stop having bad dreams.

You already started a thread about this topicc. Do you always repeat yourself as well? You might need some help. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Raga says: "My Giridhari eats lots of chocolate. If someone has an issue with that they'll have to take it up with Him. I think he's a bit addicted." Yes, but only a raga bhakta like your holiness can force Krishna to accept chocolate! Us vaidhi-bhaktas would surely be rejected for doing so! Besides, Krishna chews betel nut but we are not allowed to take the prasad. so, maybe chocolate would be the same? Does betel have caffeine or some other kind of stimulant in it?

Raga says: "My Giridhari eats lots of chocolate. If someone has an issue with that they'll have to take it up with Him. I think he's a bit addicted." Yes, but only a raga bhakta like your holiness can force Krishna to accept chocolate! Us vaidhi-bhaktas would surely be rejected for doing so! Besides, Krishna chews betel nut but we are not allowed to take the prasad. so, maybe chocolate would be the same? Does betel have caffeine or some other kind of stimulant in it?

Having weird dreams sounds more like craziness, but lots of people have weird dreams. "Hearing things?" what kinds of things are you hearing? "Seeing Krishna in everything"? That is the stage of the highest realization and it is not likely that you are there yet. Sounds like you might have some mental problems mixed in with some recent contact with Krishna consciousness. You might need to undergo some purification and cleansing to heal the mental disturbances so that you can cultivate Krishna consciousness successfully without confusing it with these problems of having bad dreams and hearing things. Constipation can cause a chemical identical to PCP to be produced in a toxic colon. When this happens one has hallucinations and sometimes hears things. Make sure you have a regular bowel movement and clear your system of poisons and toxins through fasting and herbal medicines. This should help with the "hearing things" and "having wierd dreams".

Actually, Prabhupada came to the west to argue with everything and everyone. He came and told them that your whole materialistic civilization is misdirected and bogus. He argued with all sorts of Professors and students and shattered their illusions about what they thought was right and wrong. Prabhupada was well known for "blowing people away" with his uncompromising approach to preaching. He blew away several discicples and many materialistic people who thought they knew better than the Vedic wisdom. Prabhupada never ever compromised his preaching to "be nice" or "build bridges" or "develop dialogue" with atheists and materialists. His preaching was most usually as hard as a thunderbolt. He was not sentimental at all. He came to preach the absolute truth and he was not worried about stepping on some toes to do it. Take some time to try and read the discussions and talks Prabhupada had with so many people. He was always in control, uncompromising and blunt. He was not at all concerned about offending people with the truth as it is revealed through the Gaudiya siddhanta. He "offended" countless materially attached people and mayavadi contaminated rascals. Some disciples were even offended to the point of rejecting Prabhupada, but that never dissuaded him from standing up for the cold hard truth. Nowadays we find some so-called sprititual masters who never want to say a harsh word to anybody, who think they can be all things to all people. But, this kind of compromising and pandering to the false egos of the materially attached was never part of Prabhupada's approach. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami was known as the "LION GURU" in his time and that was because he was a very fiercesome preacher who defied the stereotypical profile of the so-called humble babaji. He also was never concerned to be viewed as a "nice guy" that never rubbed anybody the wrong way. He even criticised his own brother Lalita Prasada for his leanings to the sahajiya babaji mentality and the traditional image of the timid Vaishnava. Anybody that doesn't accept arguement and cold hard preaching doesn't accept Prabhupada or his guru Saraswati Goswami because both of them were well known for bold, cold, in-your-face confrontations with nonsense atheists and materialists. Prabhupada even said many things against his own Godbrothers and even his dear old friend Sridhar Maharaja. When it came to the movement and spreading Krishna consciousness around the world, it was Prabhupada and Prabhupada alone that had the authority and empowerment to establish the movement and he wholesale excluded all his Godbrothers and their disciples from interfering.

KRISHNA 69 says: "By the way GITA has been interpreted by many sages over the course of different centuries. I have read the interpretations by Sankaracharya and Swami Ramakrishna Paramahamsa also other than the book B-GITA as it is by Swami Prabhupadha. I have read the essence of GITA written by Bharathi in his poetry, I have different kinds of interpretations written by different scholars in my mother tounge. Certainly Swami Prabhupadha by himself would have read those different interpretations. To understand and gain a deep insight into something one has to really read many things and not just confine to one author, and this is what I mentioned. Any well learned scholars would certainly agree with me. I would like to stop here and dont want to argue with any one anymore as i dont have to prove myself for useless ignorant people's comments. Shyam" Prabhupada would have never read those mayavadi commentaries as you are suggesting. This post confirms what I just said about him reading mayavadi commentaries on the GITA. He is contaminated with a lot of mayavadi nonsense. He actually thinks he IS KRISHNA! That is what he learned from the Mayavadi commentaries on the GITA. That is why he calls HIMSELF .........KRISHNA69..... he thinks that Krishna took birth in 1969 as some rascal mayavadi in India.(himself)

Following the advice of my spiritual master I rather prefer not to build any bridge to the atheistic, offenders of the parampara. I am not interested in rapport or dialogue with them. I am however interested to expose them for what they are, which is atheistic offenders of all the acharyas. So what he reads Bhagavad-gita? He must not being reading an authorized version otherwise he could not be speaking such nonsense about not searching for a spiritual master. He changes his story faster than a jackal flees a Lion. Whenever somebody exposes his nonsense, he tries to turn the tables and make others out to be the bad guy when it is he who is speaking against the gurus and preaching bogus nonsense. He claims "I am a pure devotee of Krishna"! Now that is load of it and a guaranteed sign of a cheater.

Like I said before, teen-age girls are so naive and gullible. Actually, I am sure that many older, more experienced devotees avoid this forum because they don't like to be in a place where teen-age girls talk down to them with no respect for their elders and atheists are allowed to contradict themselves after they criticise all the gurus of the parampara as being cheaters who can't show the path to salvation. One thing young devotees need to learn is to show a little respect for devotees that are of their parents age group and not talk down to them disrespectfully.

Krishna69 Member Reged: 04/11/03 Posts: 63 Loc: NewJersey The only real spiritual master is Shree Krishna [re: Guest] 06/17/03 07:02 PM Edit Reply My sincere adivice or suggestion to you is to stop searching for any spiritual master in this world. Honestly people who claim that they can show paths to salvation are not actually renounced by themselves which is true from the best of my knowledge and experience with such nonsense so called spiritual masters. Just read GITA interpreted by different people at various times. Again dont confine just to one interpretation and block your thoughts based on that individuals purport. You dont have to stop going to ISKON temple where someone misbehaved with you but go and give him back nicely because its one's duty to establish dharma when you find adharma, and who ever he may be dont bother to throw away and smash that person with strong words who exploit others in the name of Krishna/GOD. Reading GITA alone is more than sufficient than searching for a guru. regarding your relationship with your friend, continue the friendship as a true friendship from the heart and not from the body. It may be difficult initially but in course of time, you will realise that mental attachemnt devoid of physical attraction is much wonderful.

by the way gHari; you are welcome for the information I gave you about Brahma-Samhita being translated by Professor Sanyal and not Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati. I guess he did write the introduction, but the verses were translated by Professor Sanyal. Instead of fleeing this thread in embarassment you could have a least acknowledged that I corrected your misconception and shared with you some important information!

I'm disappointed that so many devotees in this forum have been taken in by this rascal "syama" also known as KRISHNA69. Lets take a look at his remarks about accepting a spiritual master. He said: "My sincere advice or suggestion to you is to stop searching for any spiritual master in this world. Honestly people who claim that they can show paths to salvation are not actually renounced by themselves which is true from the best of my knowledge and experience with such nonsense so called spiritual masters." Now, this advice is a direct insult and offense to all our spiritual masters of the Gaudiya parampara. How can anyone befriend a person who makes such a remark about Prabhupada and all the other spiritul master? I don't think that any person who says that we should stop searching for a spirutual master and that all the spiritual master are cheaters is a nice person at all. Generally, people of such opinions are referred to as ASURAS or DEMONS by our spiritual masters. Maybe some of you people have affection and sympathy for someone with such an attitude, but I for one DO NOT! I think he has offended all devotees and all spiritual masters and can't fathom how anyone would feel sympathy for a person of such arrogance and imudence.

On this topic I would like to submit that the term plagiarism has never been associated with Vedic knowledge. It is a term used in modern vernacular and cannot be properly applied to Vedic knowledge or transcendental knowledge. According to the Vedic system plagiarism is the only authorized form of transmitting transcendental knowledge, as the Vedic standard is that knowledge must be transmitted from guru to disciple unadulterated, unchanged and unaltered. How can this be done other than through what is mundanely being referred to as plagiarism? Actually, plagiarism is bona-fide. It might not conform to the laws of mundane society and capitalism, but it is the only authorized process for transmitting the Vedic knowledge. The bottom line to this issue is that plagiarism is only a violation in terms of the attempt to capitalize and monopolize the words of an acharya through the mundane laws of society. This is done for the purpose of monetary gain and is therefore itself a violation of the spiritual law that everyone has the right to Vedic knowledge without cost. I sympathize with Tirthapada prabhu to some degree on this issue but at the same time I see another side to the argument. I agree that Srila Sridhar Maharaja should have been noted at the author of the statements that are in question here, but I am not sure that plagiarism is really something that should be charged against those that repeat verbatim the teachings of any great acharyas. The end result should be the same; enlightenment! Srila Prabhupada himself established the standard that "You, all of my disciples, you can also become spiritual master by repeating exactly word for word what you have heard from your spiritual master". So, considering this, we might have to conclude that plagiarism is the only authorized way to present Krishna consciousness. Changing the jargon, the lingo or the verbalism has not been sanctioned. The only authorized way to preach by Srila Prabhupada has been "repeat exactly word for word what you have heard from your spiritual master".

Yes, Prabhupada considered the followers of Jesus to be his 12 disciples. It was these 12 that Christ tried to save. We have ISKCON gurus with thousands of disciples, so I guess that makes even them much more advanced and merciful than Jesus. The kanistha is the one who has too much affinity for a man-made religion called Christianity and too much spite for those who don't. Don't hate me because I don't buy into your concocted views abut Jesus and Christianity. If it's not spoken by Prabhupada or a great Vaishnava acharya, I don't think it is worth the attention.

The danger with devotees making too much of the Christian thought is that in the end you end up with something like a Kirtanananda Swami who concocted a very ridiculous combination of Krishna consciousness and Christianity to the point of madness and absurdity. Trying to mix these two beliefs is actually offensive to the Vaishnava faith and is much more dangerous than a healthy skepticism about the validity of so-called Christianity as a religion. I think it is very offensive to the devotees to try and force them to validate or accept Christ or Christianity. When some sentimental Christian introduces the topic of Christ in a circle of devotees he should be prepared for rejection to a large degree because most Hare Krishna devotees have very little interest or concern about the subject. The subject of Christ and Christianity takes up less than one small paragraph total in all of Prabhupada's books, so I think we should follow Prabhupada's lead and leave the topic alone almost totally. To accuse others of being offensive because they do not like the topic of Christ to become the central subject of devotee discussions is a rude and offensive attitude as far as I am concerned. Hare Krishna devotees want to talk about Krishna consciousness not Jesus. Excuse me if I do not buy into the sentimental attitudes about Jesus. There are Christian forums where he is the central figure, but in devotee circles he takes up very little attention. I do appreciate the piety of Christians, though I think their faith in God is poorly founded in Biblical theology. The goodness of most Christians is more founded in their personal piety and morality than in the religion of the Bible. The God of the Bible was a vengeful and jealous God as described in the Old Testament. Such a God could never be Jagannatha Krishna - the Lord of the Universe. More than likely the God of the Bible was some demigod thought to be God like Indra, Brahma, Siva or some other god of the karma-kanda portion of the Vedas. Indra was a jealous and vengeful god at times. The God of the Old Testament was not Vishnu, rather some demigod who was misunderstood to be supreme. We find that same kind of misconception in many of the followers of karma-kanda portions of the Vedas throughout the histroy of India and South Asia.

Is this what you are referring to?: quote: "In the Chaitanya Caritamrita Prabhupada said that devotees like Haridas Thakur and Vasudeva Datta were MILLIONS OF TIMES GREATER THAN CHRIST. If Christ was such a great pure devotee then why would Prabhupada say that? That tells me that Christ was not really everything that the sentimental Christian devotees would like to think him to be. Prabhupada was very wise and wiley when it came to avoiding a religious war with the Christians, but in his books he told the truth that the real pure devotees are millions of times greater than Jesus Christ." (end quote) Prabhupada indeed spoke like this and I think the misconceptions are regarding the notion that the God of the Jews was Krishna or Vishnu. The God of Christ was the same God as the God of the Old Testament. I am not ignorant of the Bible. I have a copy in my library and have studied it quite in depth. There are many good and pious wisdoms in the Bible, though the God of the Old Testament is veiled in complete darkness. Books like Proverbs and Psalms might very well be some remnants of the Upanishads, though the Bible falls far short of being unadulterated Veda. Prabhupada said we should not talk much about the Bible or Christianity. Generally, he made his comments on the subject short and shallow. I think it is best if devotees not try to make too much of Christ or the Bible. The Krishna consciousness philosophy offers so much more than Biblical philosophy. If you want to be a Christian be a Christian but I don't think it is proper to try and force devotees to accept such bluster about Christ around the Krishna consciousness movement. Prabhupada is millions of times greater than Christ!

Narada Muni is also said to be from siddha-loka and he has ability to go back and forth from Vaikuntha to this Universe. Jesus might be of similar calibre, able to go from Vaikuntha to this Universe. Many siddhas have that power and their planet of residence in this world is siddha-loka. At the time of universal desolution they return to the Vaikuntha world. Jesus was referred to as the MESSIAH in his culture and I firmly believe Prabhupada used that specific term as it relates most commonly to Christ. There is really no other figure in human history known as the MESSIAH besides Christ and I don't think Prabhupada would have used that term if he were not indicating Christ. He could have come from Vaikuntha to siddha-loka or attained Vaikuntha from siddha-loka. There is no other MESSIAH that has been known since the time of Christ. Christ always referred to his father in Heaven. Heaven and Vaikuntha are two different worlds. There are some indications in the Old Testament that the God of the Bible was not at all Krishna, rather some demigod or possibly Lord Brahma. The God of the Bible liked burnt offerings of meat. We know for certain that such offerings could never have been made to Krishna. If the God of Christ is the same God of the Old Testament, then the God of Christ could not have been Krishna, rather some demigod who accepted burnt offerings of meat. It says in the Bible that God loved the smell of burnt animals in the sacrifice and the taste of their blood. There is no way that the God of the Bible could have been Krishna or Vishnu. Prabhupada also said that the Bible was the scripture of the mlecchas and if you read the Bible you will become a mleccha. The God of the Old Testament was a jealous and destructive God as he himself admitted in the Old Testament. He caused the Jews to destroy entire cities including the women, children and everything that breathed. Prabhupada was very careful not to start a war with the Christians, but if you read the Bible you will find that the God of the Bible was a meat-eater who was very vengeful and wrathful. This is not Lord Vishnu, the God of Goodness, rather some other diety more akin to Kali. I have no sentiments about Christ or the Bible. Prabhupada is the saviour of the modern world, not the religion that promotes and condones wholesale slaughter of cows. The Jesus we think we know is nothing like the real Jesus. Jesus was a Jew and he didn't look anything like the modern western portrayal of Jesus. I think most of what Prabhupada said about Jesus was just diplomacy to avoid a war with the Christians and to placate devotees who were sentimental about Jesus. In the Chaitanya Caritamrita Prabhupada said that devotees like Haridas Thakur and Vasudeva Datta were MILLIONS OF TIMES GREATER THAN CHRIST. If Christ was such a great pure devotee then why would Prabhupada say that? That tells me that Christ was not really everything that the sentimental Christian devotees would like to think him to be. Prabhupada was very wise and wiley when it came to avoiding a religious war with the Christians, but in his books he told the truth that the real pure devotees are millions of times greater than Jesus Christ. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

OK, look at his NAME---KRISHNA69! We all know that 69 is a symbol for mutual-simultaneous oral sex between two people. My impression was that this name was meant to offend devotees and the Lord, though I am sure this derelict will try to make some other excuse for this extremely offensive and disgusting aparadha. I can't think of anyone besides some flaming homo that would be so rude, offensive and obnoxious as to call himself KRISHNA69! Most homos are very hateful, sick and debased. I drove cab in California for a few years and met my share of them. It would take someone of that kind of mentality to combine the Lords name with 69. That is the work of a beast, a fiend, some hobgoblin in the guise of a human. Read his post again more carefully. He says to go back to the temple where you were approached by a homo and "give him back nicely". Treat the homo that came on to you nicely. In other words show your approval and acceptance of homosexual devotees. I think you peeps are a little naive and simplistic. Maybe I have been around the block too many times. I can smell a homo a mile away.

I remember reading somewhere in a purport of Srimad Bhagavatam where Prabhupada says that sometimes these siddhas from siddhaloka (a satellite of Brahmaloka) come to Earth as "MESSIAHS" to help relieve the suffering of the conditioned souls on Earth. MY personal impression from that statement was that he was referring to Christ, so since then I have beleived that Christ was a great mystic devotee from Siddhaloka who came to preach to the fallen souls of the middle-east. I don't remember where exactly I read that. If someone wants to research it more I think they will find such a statement by Srila Prabhupada somewhere in the Bhagavatam.

I am sure than I am not the only person who thinks that the person behind the previous post is a spiritually sick person, probably a member of GALVA. This philosophy sounds like something you would hear from some homosexual who claims to be a Vaishnava but who is actually an enemy of Vasihnavism out to demean and disgrace Vaishnavism.

Actually, the quote that the original poster of this thread is attributing to Prabhupada was actually written by George Harrison I believe in his introduction to Krishna Book. I don't think Prabhupada ever made such a statement. Actually, here is the exact quote from George Harrison's introduction to Krishna Book: Everybody is looking for Krsna. Some don't realize that they are, but they are. KRSNA is GOD, the source of all that exists, the Cause of all that is, was, or ever will be. As GOD is unlimited, HE has many Names. /images/graemlins/blush.gif<font color="red"> Allah-Buddha-Jehova-Rama: ALL are KRSNA, all are ONE.</font color> /images/graemlins/blush.gif God is not abstract; He has both the impersonal and the personal aspects to His personality which is SUPREME, ETERNAL, BLISSFUL, and full of KNOWLEDGE. As a single drop of water has the same qualities as an ocean of water, so has our consciousness the qualities of GOD'S consciousness … but through our identification and attachment with material energy (physical body, sense pleasures, material possessions, ego, etc.) our true TRANSCENDENTAL CONSCIOUSNESS has been polluted, and like a dirty mirror it is unable to reflect a pure image. With many lives our association with the TEMPORARY has grown. This impermanent body, a bag of bones and flesh, is mistaken for our true self, and we have accepted this temporay condition to be final. Through all ages, great SAINTS have remained as living proof that this non-temporary, permanent state of GOD CONSCIOUSNESS can be revived in all living Souls. Each soul is potentially divine. Kåñëa says in Bhagavad Gita: "Steady in the Self, being freed from all material contamination, the yogi achieves the highest perfectional stage of happiness in touch with the Supreme Consciousness." (VI, 28) YOGA (a scientific method for GOD (SELF) realization) is the process by which we purify our consciousness, stop further pollution, and arrive at the state of Perfection, full KNOWLEDGE, full BLISS. If there's a God, I want to see Him. It's pointless to believe in something without proof, and KRSNA Consciousness and meditation are methods where you can actually obtain GOD perception. You can actually see God, and hear Him, play with Him. It might sound crazy, but He is actually there, actually with you. There are many yogic Paths-Raja, Jnana, Hatha, Kriya, Karma, Bhakti-which are all acclaimed by the MASTERS of each method. SWAMI BHAKTIVEDANTA is as his title says, a BHAKTI Yogi following the path of DEVOTION. By serving GOD through each thought, word and DEED, and by chanting HIS Holy Names, the devotee quickly develops God-consciousness. By chanting Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare Hare Räma, Hare Räma Räma Räma, Hare Hare One inevitable arrives at KRSNA Consciousness. (The proof of the pudding is in the eating!) I request that you take advantage of this book KRSNA, and enter into its understanding. I also request that you make an appointment to meet your God now, through the self liberating process of YOGA (UNION) and GIVE PEACE A CHANCE. (hand written) All you need is Love (Krishna) Hari Bol. George Harrison 31/3/70

I remember the next day after I got my tattoos of Krishna's lotus feet on my arms; I awoke with a wonderful feeling as if I had performed some intense tapasya. The only thing I could compare it with was the fire sacrifice for my second initiation in ISKCON just before Prabhupada passed away. These two events both created in my mind a very powerful effect and sense of purification. For days after the tattoos, until they were healed, I was experiencing a very profound feeling of purification and well-being. I love my lotus feet tattoos. I want to get some more tattoos someday, like maybe the mahamantra tattooed around my wrists. I would love to get a picture of Prabhupada tattooed over my heart. It's hard to describe the feeling of getting a tattoo, but it seems like a spiritual tapasya. Many cultures use tattooing as a form of spiritual penance and tribal initiation. Tattooing has deep significance in many asian and polynesian cultures. I personally recommend spiritual tattoos, though I doubt that Prabhupada would ever have endorsed it. The act of tattoing of piercing the skin is probably considered in the lower modes by Vedic standards. However, for people in the lower modes it might be acceptable as a way to express one's faith. There is a form of yoga called jada-yoga where one plucks out all the hairs on his head one at a time. I has some effect on those that practice it. Tattooing is some form of self-effacement that helps one transcend pain and achieve some higher platform, though it has it's limits as to how much it can help.

Personally, I do not think that you need to wait till marriage and college to think about accepting a guru. Once you are 18 you can legally conduct yourself as an adult without parental oversight. College and marriage can be good or it can be bad. Especially, the marriage part would be bad if you married a non-devotee. You need make sure that you do, even if it means going against the wishes of your parents. There are many nice devotee boys that you should consider for a husband. If your parents are not proper Vaisnavas who would help find you a nice Vaishnava husband then at the legal age you should make your own choice and consult other devotees around the movement to help you find a good devotee husband. Do not let your parents force you into a marriage with a non-devotee who does not have similar spiritual affiliations as yourself. When you turn 18 you can accept a spiritual master who can also help arrange for a suitable husband for you from the devotee section. However, you must learn more about the movement and the options you have in accepting a spiritual master before you jump into initiation and such an important decision. If you marry a non-devotee, how could you be happy? College is a possibility. But marring a non-devotee would be unfortunate. I have a very handsome son who is very bright and would make a good husband for some nice girl someday. He is big and strong and a computer wiz. He has been raised with Krishna consciosness his whole life and professes himself to be a devotee. I took him out of public High School in his sophomore year to do home schooling as I don't like the influences of public High School. He is good boy, though he does need some formal training in Krishna consciosness that I have not been so strict to apply. Anyway, you should not settle for anyone except a devotee husband, even if your parents say otherwise. This is where you must think for yourself and use your American freedoms to make the right choice.

How about the old colloquial expression: "a man who does not stand for something will fall for anything"