Guruvani

To answer your question; no, chocolate is not supposed to be offered to Krishna according to the standards Prabhupada established in ISKCON. I guess the caffeine content is what makes it prohibited. Many devotees eat chocolate as bhoga though. It is one of the little sins that many devotees consider up for compromise. Many devotees also drink Coke or Pepsi or some other cola which also has caffeine it in. That does not make it right. It is just one of the weaknesses of many devotees who otherwise try to maintain some Krishna consciousness in their lives. When you become commited and dedicated enough to give up these things it will be easy to give them up. Until then, you will be keeping your own standards which might not always meet the rigid principles that have been established by Prabhupada for the International society of devotees. I am certainly no one to preach from a high horse about giving it up. I am just answering your question about whether chocolate can be offered to Krishna.

To answer your question; no, chocolate is not supposed to be offered to Krishna according to the standards Prabhupada established in ISKCON. I guess the caffeine content is what makes it prohibited. Many devotees eat chocolate as bhoga though. It is one of the little sins that many devotees consider up for compromise. Many devotees also drink Coke or Pepsi or some other cola which also has caffeine it in. That does not make it right. It is just one of the weaknesses of many devotees who otherwise try to maintain some Krishna consciousness in their lives. When you become commited and dedicated enough to give up these things it will be easy to give them up. Until then, you will be keeping your own standards which might not always meet the rigid principles that have been established by Prabhupada for the International society of devotees. I am certainly no one to preach from a high horse about giving it up. I am just answering your question about whether chocolate can be offered to Krishna.

I don't see how this topic belongs in the "spiritual discussions" forum. the topic is not about spirituality. it seems more like politics or history. maybe this category is where most of the action is so it was posted here to get the most attention, but the reason this category of topic is the most busy is because most of the members are more interested in spiritual discussion than the discussions going on in other forums. Posting off topic threads in the spiritual discussions forum is just a way to get attention to topics that most people aren't interested in. when i come to the spiritual discussion group I get a little irritated when non-spiritual discussions are being pushed in my face. If I wanted to talk about history or politics I would go to the groups that discuss that kind of dry, boring subject matter.

I don't see how this topic belongs in the "spiritual discussions" forum. the topic is not about spirituality. it seems more like politics or history. maybe this category is where most of the action is so it was posted here to get the most attention, but the reason this category of topic is the most busy is because most of the members are more interested in spiritual discussion than the discussions going on in other forums. Posting off topic threads in the spiritual discussions forum is just a way to get attention to topics that most people aren't interested in. when i come to the spiritual discussion group I get a little irritated when non-spiritual discussions are being pushed in my face. If I wanted to talk about history or politics I would go to the groups that discuss that kind of dry, boring subject matter.

Your parents are not "overprotective"; they are protective. When you are mature they will be glad to grant you the independence that you seek. Be patient and allow yourself the time to grow and muture. Your parents love you greatly and should not be burdened with your youthful passions. Do not try to approach Krishna passionatly. You will make too much trouble for your family that way. You have your whole life ahead of you to make your own decisions and do as you please. You are just a youth. Be patient to accept a spiritual master. Do not jump into this passionately as if you have no patience to wait for the proper time when you are of legal age as an adult. There is no magic transformation through formal initiation. It will not solve all your problems or make you pure automatically. There is so much available on the internet and through mail-order etc. that you can have to cultivate your Krishna consciousness until you are old enough to leave your parents and join a temple. There are websites with Prabhupada lectures, Prabhupada kirtans and bhajans, you can download all of Prabhupada's books for free. You can download pictures and associate with devotees through email and forums. Then when the time is ripe, you can make the break from your parents (age 18) and go to live in a temple that you have thoroughly researched and found acceptable. Do not passionately rush into Krishna consciousness. Be patient and cultivate the mode of Goodness which will get you through the waiting phase till your time has come. You are being too impatient and passionate to prematurely accept a spiritual master when you are still just a youth in need of growth and maturity to make the right decision about accepting a guru.

I have basically two possible explanations for your visions just before going to sleep. One explanation is that just prior to going into deep sleep your brain makes a transition from the part of your brain that deals with wakefull functions to the part of your brain that deals with dreaming. During this transitional stage of partially asleep-partially awake the part of your brain that produces dreams is starting to work before you are totally asleep. In this condition you can actually have dreams though you are seemingly awake. Experienced LSD users are familiar with this condition as this is the same phenomena that happens under the influence of LSD; one has dreams while he is awake. Schizophrenia is somewhat related to this condition as well. So either your brain is entering the dream stage a little prematurely just before sleep or you are possibly having visions of the subtle ghostly realm as you hover between sleep and wakefullness. You might want to take some brain supplement like "focus factor" or some similar memory/brain formula that is specially designed to help the brain function well and normally. Many people report outstanding results using brain forumlas and the one called "focus factor" is said to be one of the best. Your brain is not making a proper transition from wakefullness to sleep and it is probably do to a lack of some nutrient deficienty of a particular vitamin or mineral that promotes healthy brain function.

You will never reach Krishna unless Krishna wants to reach you. Don't worry about trying to reach Krishna. Just try to please him and he will reach out for you. Do you have the eyes to see guru if the guru comes before you? The Guru could be very near you but do you have the qualifications to recognize him? With thousands of devotees around the movement,are you saying that you cannot see Krishna working through any of them? Are you saying that there is not a devotee on the planet that is duly initiated into the parampara and capable of initiating you into the parampara? The guru could have appeared to you in the post just previous to the one before this one, but do you have the qualifications to see what is guru?

First of all, do not underestimate the knowledge and experience of the modern health food movement. Ayurveda is good but there is much important contribution to natural medicine from western herbology and natural medicine. Herpes is a virus closely akin the the virus that causes fever blisters on the lips, sometimes called cold sores. This virus will always be in the blood once it is contracted. Flare-ups are caused when the immune system is weak or an acidic condition exists in the stomach/gastro-intestinal system thereby affecting the blood and immune system. Herpes can be suppressed by keeping the PH of the gastro-intestinal system in proper balance. When the system becomes too much acidic and the alkalinity of the system and blood is too low the outbreaks will occur. This can be avoided by watching the diet closely and avoiding certain acidic food like tomatoes, watermelon, cucumber, cantalope etc. Raw tomatoes are the most acidic food you can eat and should be avoided altogether. Cooked tomatoes can be taken in small amounts, but raw tomatoes should be avoided. Best to avoid tomatoes altogether. For immune system support the best thing I have ever found is "myrrh" in a combination with goldenseal and cayenne. You can find this combination at a good health food store. I think "nature's way" has the proprietary rights to this combination and therefore only that company sells this particular blend. I have used it for years and it is a really outstanding immune system support formula. Oil of Oregano is also very powerful in immune system support. You can get it from puritan.com. Used in combination with the myrrh/goldenseal/cayenne you have a very powerful support for immune system. Combine these two with Noni Juice and you have an amazing formula for immune system success. Combine these three things in a regular regimen and your immune system will be almost invincible. Noni juice (available from Puritan.com) is also a very potent immune sytstem support as it contains a very rare alkaloid for balancing the PH. Noni juice sells for $39.95 if you get it from the MLM company that sells it or you can get it from Puritan.com for $8.95 a bottle.(just as good) Grape juice (purple) contains important alkaloids as well. Tomatoes orginally came from the nightshade family and nightshade is a deadly poison. Certain acids in tomatoes are toxic to the system and should be avoided strictly by person with herpes and cold sores. You can get the test stips to check your PH and then determine if your system is too acidic. Basically, if you avoid tomatoes, melons, cucumbers etc. you will not have a problem with acidity in the system. Take some purple grape juice regularly along with the myrrh/goldenseal/cayenne and noni-juice and your system will maintain a good alkaline balance which will prohibit outbreaks of the herpes virus. It' all about the immune system and the PH balance in the system. Alfalfa and Coral Calcium are also good supplements to boost the immune sytstem. You can get these supplements from puritan.com much cheaper than anywhere else. puritan.com is an outstanding supplier of all herbal formulas and nutritional supplements. I get all my herbal medicines, noni-juice and supplements from them. I have no interest, stock or ownership in the company. My endorsement is based solely on my own personal testimonial about their amazing prices and quality products.

This line of questioning like: "What part of "don't change anything" is up for debate and alteration? What part of "don't change anything" is it that we don't understand? When we change anything Prabhupada set up in ISKCON we are violating his orders and thereby bringing ruination upon the movement. Ruination has taken a great toll on ISKCON. Does following Prabhupada's orders cause ruination? Or, is disobeying him the cause of ISKCON's unfortunate destruction?" is part of the process of deductive reasoning. It is meant to help myself and others come to a logical conclusion. It is how we reach an understanding on issues and matters that concern us. This line of questioning is used frequently within our own thought processes and helps us come to rational, reasonable conclusions about important questions facing us.

Actually, this version of Brahma-Samhita that you are ascribing to Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami was actually rendered into English by Professor Nishikanta Sanyal, the disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami from the original Bengali purports of Bhaktivinode based on the commentaries by Srila Jiva Goswami. You are not reading an English version written by Bhaktisiddhanta, rather an Englsih version approved and edited by him. Nonetheless, we all appreciate the book and I have a copy. However Srila Prabhupada did instruct his disciples that: "Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. There is no need whatsoever for any outside instruction." Considering this, we might understand that the best approach to learn the teachings of Bhaktivinode and Bhaktisiddhanta is to learn it from the books of Srila Prabhupada.

To understand Bhaktisiddhnata Saraswati Goswami is something way beyond your means. Maybe you should try to understand Krishna consciousness from the disciple he appointed to preach in the western world? He was not speaking to you. He was speaking to a different time and circumstance than today and he would not be very pleased that you are using his words to undermine the person he empowered to preach to the English speaking people and the whole western world. You cannot go around Prabhupada and get to Bhaktisiddhanta. He would never condone that. Even many of his direct disciples could not uderstand him, so what hope is there for western upstarts to understand him?

I don't know what gave you the idea that I am playing games. I am quite serious and sincere about everything I have written that you fault me for. I don't have time to play games fella. You don't know me. I am a very serious and somber person and playing games is not my style. Maybe something I said rubbed you the wrong way - maybe it hit a nerve, but I am certainly not playing games with anybody in this forum. Attacking me personally over my viewpoints is a little selfish and narrow if you ask me. The only game playing that is going on here is you trying to pin the tail on the donkey.

Heres my lotus feet tattoos:

If you read Prabhupada's books then he is your guru. If you are learning Krishna consciousness from Prabhupada's books, tapes and videos, then Prabhupada is definitely your guru. There are disciples of his that can initiate you on his behalf. They can also help you very much by giving you good instructions. If you are sincere to have Prabhupad as your guru, then Krishna will help you fulfill your aspirations. Not to worry. Just read Prabhupada's books, watch his videos, hear his tapes, chant maha-mantra and try to associate with nice devotees and everything will fall into place.

<font color="red"> ISKCON has had great, great turmoil and catastrophe wreaked upon it since the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada. It is a very complicated matter for new devotees to try and understand ISKCON. There are many nice devotees in ISKCON though. If you are sincere in Krishna consciousness, Krishna will help you find your way through all the turmoil. The main thing is to cultivate the knowledge in Prabhupada's books, chant Hare Krishna and seek out some nice devotees to help you learn things that are important but are not in the books. Practically speaking you should try to find out the nearest temple to you and start attending the programs and associating with the devotees. You will get much help from them. I personally would not recommend taking initiation for a few years until you find a very advanced devotee whom you feel much great appreciation for. Don't just jump in and take initiation from anybody. Make sure this person has your utmost respect and reverance. If you ever meet such a devotee who captures your heart with his dedication and commitment, then you follow your heart and accept initiation from that person whom you admire over all other devotees. This is about the best advice I can give. There are many options available and times and minds change, so be very careful to accept anyone as your spiritual master. Krishna will arrange for you to meet the right devotee. There is also the Hare Krishna Society headquartered in California and you might want to look into their program of intiating devotees on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. Yashodanandana Prabhu has performed initiations on behalf of Srila Prabhupada and I personally recommend that you find some sincere disciple of Srila Prabhupada who will intiate you on behalf of Srila Prabhupada and then Prabhupada will be your rightful spiritual master as he is already. Prabhupada is your real guru. His books have brought you to Krishna consciousness. Don't settle for anything less. </font color>

How one presents Krishna consciousness to others depends on the individual concerned. One would not go to a prison and preach to criminals, rapists and murderers the same way he would talk to a teen-age school girl. Little girls and boys would be talked to differently than one would preach to a hardened criminal or say a soldier or military man. In this forum there are little girls and grown-up men who have lived hard lives and done military time. There will of course be different moods and mentalities to contend with. You should not expect a 50 year old man who has lived a hard life and raised three children alone to feel the same way as some 17 year old girl who is still living with her parents. Don't expect everyone to see things from the eyes of a school girl. Many of us see things through the eyes of skepticism, caution and suspicion. Not everyone is a naive, gullible teen-ager who has lived a shelterd life. I know all about naive, gullible teen-agers as I am raising two of them along with a nine year old. However, I am trying to teach them to be aware and conscious that there is a lot of evil in the world and they can't just go through life trusting everybody and being naive and gullible.

<font color="blue"> I think that Prabhupada had a certain plan that he wanted executed in ISKCON in terms of the quotes I have just presented and many hundreds more I have not. He also gave general instructions about the concept of parampara and becoming spiritual master. A spiritual master is not the master of others rather he is the master of spiritual practice. Prabhupada's books are more general instructions and perfectly legitimate, however his directions to the GBC and the the ISKCON management of temple presidents etc. was much more specific and relevant to the actual situation in the movement. If ISKCON failed, Prabhupada had a back-up to the back-up; his generalized instructions to be taken up if his specific directions to the GBC became disobeyed. What Prabhupada taught in his books were general principles. What he instructed the GBC and his deputies was specific to ISKCON as an organization. In the event ISKCON failed to execute these specific instructions, his generalized directions in his books would then become the only resort. However, we should not neglect specific, direct and obvious instructions of Srila Prabhupada in favor of the more general, generic directions. ISKCON was a multi-million dollar organization and none of the by-laws, corperate documents or legal papers were published in Prabhupada's books, though all this material is very much relevant to specific matters that Srila Prabhupada gave instructions about. We cannot ignore the reality of ISKCON as being a very great asset of Srila Prabhupada and all his directions and instructions about the managment and workings of ISKCON are very much relevant and pertinent to case specific issues. None of Prabhupada's directions about the managing and maintaining of ISKCON are dealt with in his books, though these issues are very important aspects of Prabhupada's instructions for his disciples. If we neglect or loose ISKCON and all it's implications then the general, generic advice in the books are all we have to go by. As long as ISKCON exists in some form, all of Srila Prabhupada's directions and instructions regarding the management of ISKCON are more important than the general directions given in his books. It is possible to use Prabhupada's books to disobey his direct, specific instructions regarding ISKCON, initiation, the GBC authority etc. However, disobeying Prabhupada's specific orders under the pretext of following his books is a most unfortunate abuse of the books when we have his specific detailed instructions to the GBC as to how ISKCON was to be managed. His last instruction to the GBC before he left was; "Don't change anything after I am gone" What part of "don't change anything" is up for debate and alteration? What part of "don't change anything" is it that we don't understand? When we change anything Prabhupada set up in ISKCON we are violating his orders and thereby bringing ruination upon the movement. Ruination has taken a great toll on ISKCON. Does following Prabhupada's orders cause ruination? Or, is disobeying him the cause of ISKCON's unfortunate destruction? ISKCON is but a skeleton of it's former greatness. Would that have happened if the leadership of ISKCON obeyed Prabhupada to "don't change ANYTHING after I am gone"? Following Prabhupada would have brought untold success and prosperity upon ISKCON. Disobeying him has reduced ISKCON to a pathetic imitation of the true ISKCON of Srila Prabhupada. </font color>

NOD text two purport: "Similarly, we have established the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to give people an opportunity to associate with those who have not forgotten Krsna. This spiritual association offered by our ISKCON movement is increasing day by day. Many people from different parts of the world are joining this Society to awaken their dormant Krsna consciousness."

In this quote Prabhupada calls his disciples "members of the society" three times in one paragraph. This same theme he repeats over and over and over again hundreds of times throughout his books and lecture, letters etc. NOD text 4 purport: The members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness invite the Society’s members and supporters to dine with them when they hold love feasts in all their branches every Sunday. Many interested people come to honor prasäda, and whenever possible they invite members of the Society to their homes and feed them sumptuously with prasäda. In this way both the members of the Society and the general public are benefited.

Here is another reference from NOD text 7 purport: The Krsna consciousness movement is especially meant for creating an atmosphere in which people can take to the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra. One must begin with faith, and when this faith is increased by chanting, a person can become a member of the Society.

Let me present some of Prabhupada's own words to explain my point: NOD text 5 purport- Everyone is invited to join this movement, sit with us, take prasäda and hear about Krsna. When we see that someone is actually interested in Krsna consciousness and wants to be initiated, we accept him as a disciple for the chanting of the holy name of the Lord. When a neophyte devotee is actually initiated and engaged in devotional service by the orders of the spiritual master, he should be accepted immediately as a bona fide Vaishnava, and obeisances should be offered unto him.

ISKCON is is non-profit religious organization that Srila Prabhupada registered under the laws of the United States as all churches and religious groups are. ISKCON is also a spiritual organization established by Srila Prabhupada for specific purposes. ISKCON is one branch of the great tree of Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan movement. The great authorities of Vaishnavism have described the movement as a great tree with many branches. ISKCON is one such branch. Each branch has it's own unique features and design. There is no two branches on a tree that is exactly like another. Therefore ISKCON has it's own unique character and qualities. Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not always one big happy family. There are sibling rivalries and differing viewpoints on a few issues. ISKCON was not meant to be a carbon copy of the Gaudiya Math. ISKCON has it's own special design and purpose based upon time, place and circumstance. Such demands of time, place and circumstance command special concessions and considerations depending upon the situation. Therefore, there will be a difference of opinion between the different branches of Mahaprabhu's tree and that should be accepted and understood. We should not expect that all devotees will always agree on all things. That is not going to happen. Just find the circle of devotees that you feel most suited for and take your stand with them.

Maybe it is politically correct in modern society to show acceptance and fairness to gay and lesbians in the workplace etc., but Srila Prabhupada was never worried about being politically correct. To say that one should be accepted by claiming "gay or lesbian Vaishnava" and still be honored as temple president, GBC or even GURU is totally ludicrous. Once one is a true Vaishnava he is neither gay or lesbian. Vedic law allows for legitimate heterosexual relationships, but it does not allow for lesbian or homosexual behaviour as part of a sanctioned Vaishnava marriage. So, there is no such thing as a "gay" or "lesbian" Vaishnava, as Vedic law does not sanction such relationships. The Vedic law is not "politically correct" by modern standards....... thank goodness! Actually, those who are trying to promote this "Gay and Lesbian" Vaishnava group are no more than antogonistic adversaries of the Krishna conciousness movement who want to denigarate the movement even further by this propaganda that Vaishnavas can be gay or lesbian. Gay and lesbian is a demonic lifestyle and has no relationship at all with Vaishnavism! This should be made clear to the general public.

Actually, the Ksatriyas of Vedic times drank alcohol at certain times. After the disappearance of Lord Krishna the Yadu warriors got drunk and killed each other off. It was all a part of Lord Krishna's will to rid the world of the Yadu army which needed to be dissolved after his departure.

Why did Srila Prabhupada always speak in terms of "joining the movement", "joining the society", "joining ISKCON" etc. etc. instead of becoming a disciple? Was there anything unique or otherwise implied by his terminology? Was Srila Prabhupada indicating an alternative to the orthodox system of the direct guru-disciple relationship in reference to his ISKCON system of a GBC authority? Also, is not a GBC authority incompatible with the diksha guru system in ISKCON? How can a diksha guru be outranked by a GBC and still retain his spiritual authority as guru? Did Srila Prabhupada fabricate a totally incongruent system of GBC controlled gurus? Would Srila Prabhupada ever suggest that a genuine guru be under the control of a governing body? Are ISKCON gurus just puppet gurus of the GBC or are they really diksha gurus at all? Prabhupada said in his books that a spiritual master is not subjected to the advice or criticism of his Godbrothers, so how could he have set up a system of gurus under the control of the GBC? Did Prabhupada contradict himself in the end and authorize a number of gurus who would then be subjected to sanctions and control of the GBC?