Guruvani

please show me any quote where Srila Prabhupada said Jesus was historically real. Srila Prabhupada never acknolwedged Jesus was historically real.

and you think you can learn about Krishna from the Shaivites?

All of ISKCON is one branch. Srila Prabhupada made that clear in his books. You can't be a branch and still be in ISKCON as ISKCON is ONE branch. To be a "branch" you can't be within ISKCON, as ISKCON is ONE branch - the branch of Srila Prabhupada. there is no way that you can be a branch and still be within ISKCON. ISKCON as a whole is ONE branch.

The reason we can't love Jesus is because Jesus said he was "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me." Well, excuse me but Lord Vishnu is the father of the Universe and Jesus is NOT, let me repeat NOT the only way to Lord Vishnu. If you "love Jesus" then you shouldn't be reading Bhagavad-gita because JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY!!!!!!!

Well, for me, Urmila is the last female disciple of Srila Prabhupada that should be a guru, because she has bought into a corrupt and deviant GBC bureaucracy. I think there are plenty of advanced devotee women that should be guru before the politician Urmila. I think the female disciples that have renounced the deviant GBC are the real honest female disciples of Srila Prabhupada that should be female gurus.

We love Jesus because the story of Jesus promotes monotheism and prayer to God. Other than that, we don't have to accept that the whole story of some Jewish mystic named Jesus is the saviour of all mankind is historically a fact. We love "Jesus" because in the fable about Jesus we learn that God is a person and we should love God and "though shalt not kill" etc. We love the religious conception of Jesus, but we don't accept him as an actual historical personality.

it's a matter of faith. I have faith in the Vaishnava acharyas. I don't trust King James, the Apostle Paul or Jimmy Swaggart. At least they haven't changed Krishna's name. There was never a Jewish saint named Jesus. It's a well known fact. I don't have any faith in a Jesus story that has been altered, edited and adjusted for 2000 years by long line of very questionable characters. Sorry, I don't believe that some Jewish mystic named Jesus is the saviour of all mankind. I hope you will excuse me. But, I happen to have some solid proof that Krishna is for real. It's not a fairtytale to me. I do appreciate the modern Christians belief in God, but I think it is a shame that they have to give all the credit for their belief in God to a mythological character named Jesus.

Well, I love Indiana Jones, but sadly Indiana Jones is not a real person.

Srila Prabhupada referred to Jesus figuratively. Literally, there never was any AVATAR named Jesus, nor a Jewish mystic named Jesus. Srila Prabhupada can't make a myth a reality. He was referring to the concept of "love God with all your heart and soul" that has been attributed to the mythological character of Jesus. We love the idealogy behind the Jesus myth. We don't love Jesus because Jesus never existed as Jesus. It's a fairytale.

Urmila is the token female guru in ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada said all his girl disciples should be guru. Why only Urmila? All the devoted female disciples of Srila Prabhupada should be ISKCON gurus. But, Urmila is the only one to get the GBC rubber stamp, because the GBC is standing in the way of the orders of Srila Prabhupada that ALL his disciples should be gurus. Instead, they build up an insider clique and keep out anyone that isn't part of the power sharing cartel in ISKCON.

Sivananda Sena loved a dog that followed him to see Mahaprabhu. So, sure we love Jesus, we love dogs, we love prostitutes (Haridas blessed the prostitute), we love Jagai and Madhai (Nityananda saved them), we love cats (Srila Prabhupada petted the kitty at New Vrindavan), so why wouldn't we love Jesus? That is my point. We love Jesus just like we should love any common soul, but that is not a religious sentiment that becomes part of our spiritual faith. There was no Avatar named Jesus. There was not even a Jewish mystic named Jesus. The whole story about Jesus is a fabrication. How can anybody love such a mythical person as Jesus? There was supposed to be some Jewish mystic name Yeshua that some fable has been spun into the story of Jesus, but I don't buy into the Pauline cult and I don't LOVE any fiction character named Jesus.

Where are all the girl gurus that Srila Prabhupada talked about?

Well, if you want to get technical, there was never a Jewish saint named Jesus that was crucified by the Romans. The whole Jesus story is riddled with human tampering. How can I love a person who never existed?

I have heard some ISKCON gurus referring to certain ISKCON temples as branches of ISKCON, yet Srila Prabhupada referred to the whole society as a branch of the Caitanya tree. You can't be a branch and still be in ISKCON. the whole of ISKCON is a branch. To become a branch you must branch out from ISKCON.

Yes.... ISKCON is a branch. If these disciples go start their own institutions, then they will be a branch. Srila Prabhupada has described ISKCON as a branch. You can't be a branch and still be in ISKCON. A branch means that you go out and make your own way. ISKCON is a branch. You can't be a branch and still be in ISKCON.

then why do the sannyasis dominate the guru scene in ISKCON? Where are all the grhasta gurus, brahmacary gurus and girl gurus? IS the GBC standing in the way of Srila Prabhupada's orders?

Then why does ISKCON require GBC rubber stamp? Srila Prabhupada said ALL his disciples should become gurus. Where are all the girl gurus that Srila Prabhupada mentioned? Srila Prabhupada approved all his disciples to be guru. They why does the GBC claim they have to give rubber stamp approval?

So, "boys and girls" will become spiritual masters? Then where are all the boy and girl gurus in ISKCON? We need more girls for gurus in ISKCON.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, Srila Prabhupada never awarded that title to any disciple, so I guess that means that none of them were ever approved for initiating disciples.

As obvious from previous topics and posts on this forum, I am not crazy about mixing and mingling the Christian concept with the Hare Krishna concept. I appreciate the faith of the Christians in One supreme personal God, but at the same time I see very little practical grounds for any mixing and mingling of Jesus into the Gaudiya beliefs or vice versa. I like to keep things in proper place and perspective. I don't like to see Jesus imposed on the Vaishnavas with some ideal that "if you love Krishna you must love Jesus". Well, we can love Jesus without making the figure of Jesus a part of the Gaudiya religious doctrine. Seperate but equal is the way I like to relate with Christians. I don't agree that devotees have to "love Jesus" if they profess to love Krishna. They should love Jesus in the same way they love any other fellow soul, but not as the Godhead. So, I appreciate faith in God whether is it Christian, Muslim or Hindu. That doesn't mean I like to mix and mingle other religious figures into the Gaudiya theology.

Srila Prabhupada wrote in Sri Caitanya Caritamrita something about his idea of the initiation system he wanted for ISKCON. No doubt this is a departure from orthodox standards, but then again it's obvious Srila Prabhupada had the power and authority to adapt and adjust things for bringing Krishna consciousness to the western world. In Madhya 15, 108 purport he writes: Here Srila Prabhupada is explaining the principle with which many devotees in ISKCON were initiated - "under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master". I don't see any timeline on that system that Srila Prabhupada established in ISKCON. Personally, I don't see why that system had to be stopped after his passing. In the last days Srila Prabhupada instructed his leading mean several times that "don't change anything after I am gone". So, to me, "don't change anything" includes the initiation system that he had set-up in ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada broke from the "tradition" in more than one way. Why after his departure these innovations were supposed to be reversed is just not acceptable to me. Srila Prabhupada departed the traditional standard himself. Why then after his departure is ISKCON supposed to now become "traditional"? "Under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master" This is how ISKCON was supposed to conduct initiations. But, then it got changed to "directly by one of the hundred diksha gurus in ISKCON". That was not the system Srila Prabhupada gave for ISKCON.

don't feel so special Babhruji, I ended up with a thread that I didn't start as well a few days ago. I couldn't understand why, but I just rolled with it. the topic was "the dilemma of association". It got locked anyway. so, it doesn't really matter to me. [moderator's note: we just corrected it.]

There is nothing that is going to turn the tide of Kali Yuga. Time marches on. Nothing will change until a major cataclysmic event occurs and alters the course of mankind. Talking about it isn't going to change anything. India has suffered in poverty for centuries and there is nothing that is going to change their pursuit of modern advancement of technology. But, Pakistan could fall to the Islamic militants someday and then they will have an arsenal of nukes. One thing for sure, sooner or later there will be a major event that will smash the modern materialistic culture and those that are left behind will have to pursue a less aggressive way of materialistic civilization. I wouldn't even count out a major Volcanic erruption (or two) that puts Earth into another ice age. Sooner or later something major is going to happen.

I found this informative piece in the Wikipedia.

There is no use in an intricate academic analysis into the history of Israel or the Jews. Let's just give modern Christians credit for believing in God and giving thanks to him for all they have. We don't need historical, academic research into the history of the Jews to recognize that "Christians" are sincere and faithful people who believe in ONE supreme God and that they are NOT God like some Hindu sects in India believe. To recognize that you are NOT God and to pray to the Lord of all creation is much better than the Mayavada Hindu sects that are hell bent on spiritual suicide. Christians are Vaishnavas whether they know it or not. they are our brothers.....