Guruvani

I think that this refers to the theme of Sri Isopanisad that is described in the first verse.

Mahaprabhu referred to these Hells. Now somebody found one sentence by Bhaktivinode that says something and now everybody is saying that the Hells in the Bhagavata aren't real? Bhaktivinode had particular audience in mind when he wrote those things. He said many things to try and goad people like himself into accepting the Bhagavatam. Bhaktivinode hated the Bhagavatam and the Vaishnavas for the first part of his life. So, his preaching was geared towards reaching people like himself that couldn't accept the Bhagavatam face value. So, he said what he felt he had to say to get these people to accept the Bhagavatam. But, Bhaktivinode cannot do away with the Hells that are quite explicitly described in the Bhagavatam. There are Hells in Buddhist philosophy as well and Hells in Christian and Muslim philosophy. So, all you sinners out there better get it in your head that Hell is real. All the religions of the world describe Hell. Now, some idiot finds a sentence by Bhaktivinode and thinks he can erase Hell from the Vaishnava philosophy. Then why did Mahaprabhu tell Rupa and Sanatan that he had saved them from Kumbhipaka? (a hell in the Bhagavatam for meat-eaters)

Well, if you want to get technical, we could say that supporting the zonal guru scam was in itself an abuse of so many ISKCON devotees. so, lets not go there. Sridhar Maharaja came out of samadhi to deal with some political rascals and the result was not very good. I don't blame Sridhar Maharaja.

I am not ignorant of the situation. Just today I read through the whole meeting the big 11 had with Sridhar Maharaja to trick him into supporting their evil scheme. Here it is for anyone interested to read it for themselves. http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/gbc/78_ssm_gbc.html

it's a damn shame that Sridhar Maharaja allowed himself to be sucked into the zonal guru crap. unfortunately, there was a price to pay for being so naive. does that mean that Sulocan was wrong? Srila Prabhupada never appointed any zonal acharyas. Its too bad that Sridhar Maharaja believed the lies. We can't blame Sulocan for that.

sulocan was a puppy dog, he wouldn't hurt a flea. I knew Sulocana. Did you?

the "MOON THING" is in the Bhagavat. Deal with it. It is not going away.

So, in your typical crude fashion you like to say that the inner feelings of those who don't follow your line of thinking do it for "sport". Well, then maybe your sport and the sport of Narayana Maharaja is destroying the faith of ISKCON devotees who were initiated according to the system authorized by Srila Prabhupada? Yamaraja is waiting for all of you with open arms. Sulocana was a martyr. You are just a smart punk with a "sad" guru. I am not in this for sport. (locked and loaded)

In Vrindavan Krishna is NOT God. He is a lusty village boy that is irresistable. On Earth, the Moon is further than the Sun. We don't like to follow this demoniac version of the truth. We follow the Bhagavat,

anyway, Bhagavat das is groupie of Narayana Maharaja, so what he is preaching is bad medicine for the movement of Srila Prabhupada as far as I am concerned. When I heard Narayana Maharaja was preaching that the disciples of Srila Prabhupada who got initiated by tape and ritviks were not really initiated and that they needed another proper initiation (from who else?), I wrote him off as an enemy of ISKCON and the movement of Srila Prabhupada and nothing has changed since then. Narayana Maharaja has a place in the universe, but as far as I am concerned it is not with ISKCON or the the followers of Srila Prabhupada. So, what is Bhagavat das "preaching"? His preaching is poison as far as I am concerned and if he wants to serve Srila Prabhupada he needs to just go back to Bhuvanesvara and make life members. That was what Srila Prabhupada ordered him to do as his life's mission. So, he should go do that instead of writing articles for the SamparadayaSun.com website and preaching the gopi-bhava, rasika acharya cult of Narayana Maharaja.

Why preach? So we can dupe some poor unsuspecting souls into getting caught up in the ISKCON fiasco. I say DON"T PREACH! If you can't provide for people to have a shelter and a sanctuary where they can actualize a life of Krishna consciousness, then better not to preach and bring new people into the madness. Don't preach. Preaching is bad. Develop a place where people can actually live a life of Krishna consciousness first, then go preach. Preaching to people without offering them an alternative lifestyle in Krishna consciousness is in my opinion cheating. Srila Prabhupada didn't just "preach". He offered his followers a chance to get out of secular society and live a devotional life. The GBC has robbed the vast majority of devotees of that opportunity. Unless and until we can create an alternative to the defunct ISKCON and actually provide people a chance to actually live a life of Krishna consciousness, then preaching is just something we do to hyperventilate and get high off of our own hot air. Preach? Don't preach....... teach.

SB 5.21.11 The Moon "along with the other stars" and planets (Rahu is a planet "like the moon") becomes visible in the celestial sphere and then sets and again becomes invisible. Sounds to me like the real Moon must be up there somewhere among the stars.

dude, in your old age you gotta do them toe touches religiously. some hatha-yoga like asanas like the plow will help. I get lower back pain too if I don't take proper care and do what needs to be done to keep the lower back muscles in tone. lately, I have been fine because i have been paying my dues to the exercises and getting good results. Once Srila Prabhupada was taking a walk through Balboa Park in San Diego and he and his disciples walked by a yogi guy standing on his head under a tree. As the disciples snickered, feeling so superior, Srila Prabhupada said "that is good health".

In this verse we hear that Rahu is "like" the Sun or the Moon. That would seem to indicate that it must also be illuminating like the Sun or the Moon. Lord Brahma gave Rahu a place in the universe amongst the planets. The real Moon of the universe is the Moon to all the heavenly planets, so obviously the rock orbiting Earth and reflecting Sunlight is NOT the Moon of the heavens. this moon is obviously not the rock orbiting Earth.

please present the members here with the proper reference and we would like to look at that ourselves. Krishna says that among the stars he is the Moon. Obviously, the Moon is very special having been produced out of the mind of Narayana. Did Lord Narayana produce a pitted and pock-marked rock out of his mind? The Moon is not that big rock that is orbiting Earth. the real Moon is the Moon of the heavens, not some rock caught up in Earths gravity.

According to this verse in the Bhagavatam the Moon is actually amongst the stars. As well, Krishna himself says that amongst the stars He is the Moon. Here again we hear that the Moon is one of the stars. Srila Prabhupada said the astronauts landed on Rahu. So, apparently, sometime in the history of the universe Rahu became an imitation Moon as part of Lord Indra's plan to foil the attempts of unqualified persons to go to the Moon either with mystic powers or space craft. the Real Moon is somewhere amongst the stars as described in the shastra. The real Moon is the Moon of the whole universe, not just some rock orbiting Earth, reflecting Sun light and bewildering Earthlings into accepting a false Moon. The Moon is amongst the stars. It is not a big rock orbiting planet Earth.

It's obvious that Srila Prabhupada in his Bhagavatam was not willing to subvert the Bhagavat cosmology with the claims of NASA. To follow that line of thinking of Srila Prabhupada to reject scientific claims that contradict the Vedic version, has nothing to do with "spontaneous devotion" as far as I can see. According to the Vedic version the Moon is a heavenly planet and the Moon God is the founder of the Soma Dynasty. It's obvious that the astronuts from NASA did not enter into the "Moon" planet proper as per the Vedic conception of the Moon as being a heavenly planet. So, whatever the mystery is, apparently none of us have figured it out. But, one thing that Srila Prabhupada was right about was that NASA did not land a man on the "Moon" that we know as a heavenly planet. So, the astronuts did NOT land on the heavenly Moon that is mentioned in Vedic scriptures. It's nothing to do with spontaneous devotion to understand that. It is a scientific fact, that the astronuts did NOT land on the heavenly planet we know as the Moon.

Sridhar Maharaja told me personally not to believe people who say that Sridhar Maharaja told them something that he didn't tell everyone. Personal accounts might be real, but they can never be used as evidence when we are trying to establish the teachings of an acharya. Hearsay...... that is what "Sridhar Maharaja told me personally" amounts to. If it is not documented, then it just goes in one ear and out the other and doesn't even make a pit stop. Its like the ol' "Prabhupada said" syndrome when what Prabhupada said can't be confirmed with the books or tapes. So, please ............ there has got to be something verifiable that you can use besides "Sridhar Maharaja told me".

I don't know any special secret. I ain't the one will all the sadhana. The only time I was able to practice sadhana was when I lived in a temple. You have to be in a group of strict practicing devotees to do the sadhana thing. Living alone and trying to be the sadhaka doesn't work except for the rare few. Maybe if I would have had a nice supportive devotee wife like Babhru I could have done much better outside the temples. It's sad that there aren't more opportunities for devotees outside the brain-dead bureaucracy of ISKCON. We need some good politics-free ashrams where devotees can live together and support each other to be strong devotees. Unfortunately, we don't have that. What's the secret? I wish I knew. But, the shastra says that purascharya-vidhi is the life-force of chanting the Holy Name. So, living in an ashram of devotees, getting up in the morning for mangal arotrik, chanting japa, attending classses................... going out on Harinama Sankirtan...... the program Srila Prabhupada gave. That is the magic formula. But, it also takes some magic on our part to get with the program and keep with it. Hey, if you got the chance to go to Mayapura and live, then why not? If I was single and had the money to do that, that is more than likely what I would do. Maybe I would see about living in South India there with Narasingha Maharaja and my old ISKCON friend BB Vishnu Maharaja. I was new bhakta at the same time Vishnu Maharaja was and we got to be friends as new devotees at the L.A. Temple in 1975. He was Bhakta David back then and I was Japa Jim. (there was another Bhakta Jim, so Danavir named me "Japa" Jim to distinguish between the two Jims. South India.......... with Narasingha Maharaja? That would be a really cool idea.

so, now scientific knowledge enjoys the status of being "wisdom"?

If the guru says the rope is a snake, then the rope is a snake. If the guru says the snake is a rope, then the snake is a rope. Whenever reason comes to interfere between us and our spiritual master, then we should abandon reason and follow the path of faith. Because at the time of death, it is our faith that will be tested. Whether or not the Moon is further than the Sun doesn't make any difference at the time of death. What makes the difference come judgement day will be our faith in our spiritual master and in Krishna. At that point, it won't help us even if the Moon is not further than the Sun. If we reject that the Moon is further than the Sun, but still tell people that God was a pig who lifted Earth up out of the filthy nether regions of the universe, do you think they will buy that? What part of the Bhagavatam is not fantastic? Are we going to pick and choose what part of the fantastic that we accept and what part we reject? Then where does that leave us?

Does "guru" manifest only in one form? Is "guru" only the diksha guru? How do you know that your Gurudeva is absolutely correct in every way? Are you the judge to confirm that your guru has got everything perfect? It's just faith. You have faith in your "guru". Others have faith in their guru. But, none of us can prove that our guru knows everything perfectly. Does the guru not instruct us to perform sadhana bhakti? If so, why? Can we live our whole lives on mercy without ever practicing sadhana? Is that the message of Mahaprabhu and how he taught Sri Rupa and Sri Sanatan? If the acharyas say that purascharya-vidhi is the life-force of chanting, then shouldn't we be interested in this "life-force" of Nama Bhajan? Are we going to live our whole lives just expecting that we will get causeless mercy or should be practice the regulations of sadhana bhakti and treat Bhakti as a yoga system?

In Sri Guru and His Grace, Srila Sridhar Maharaja says in ch. 14. This put me to thinking....... Immediately, the "Moon is further than the Sun" controversy came to mind. It hit me that "hey, maybe that is what this is really all about?" Maybe the "Moon is further than the Sun" is a lesson that Srila Prabhupada taught and a test he gave to seperate pure devotees from devotees whose devotion is mixed with reason. Reason tells us that, in the face of the scientific information available to all us people of the modern age, the Moon is in fact NOT further than the Sun. The Sun is further than the Moon according to science. But, this "Moon is further than the Sun" is really a great challenge and a great test that in fact forces the disciples of Srila Prabhupada to reject devotional service mixed with reason and scientific knowledge and embrace a very rich form of devotion that has to rise above the realm of reason to the realm of the inconceivable and non-calculative. It is a fact that faith contaminated by scholarship and mundane scientific knowledge is a form of mixed devotion. Devotees of Krishna are required to embrace the infinite and the inconceivable. If we cling to scientific conceptions at the cost of scriptural chastity, then we have failed to achieve unmixed devotion. Srila Prabhupada was not prepared to accept this form of devotion mixed with reason. He faithfully and loyally adhered to the Bhagavat conceptions and rejected this devotion mixed with scientific knowledge. That is indeed a marvelous and amazing quality considering that Srila Prabhupada was in fact a chemist in his family life and not at all sheltered from modern scientific thinkers. Knowing well that most everybody in the world believed that NASA landed men on the Moon, Srila Prabhupada deliberately challenged that scientific community and rejected their claims that they landed on the Moon on the basis of the Bhagavatam version that the Moon is further than the Sun. So Srila Prabhupada drew a line in the sand to seperate mixed devotion from devotion uncomtaminated by reason. Pure devotion uncontaminated by reason is the symbol of Vrindavan. All those who cherish the ideal of Vrindavan would do well to do as Srila Prabhupada did and reject this devotion contaminated by reason.

Considering the statement of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur above, we have to ask the question of why then do devotees and "gurus" try to put limits and restraints on the self-realized acharyas who appeared in the modern age to make the proper adjustments with the aim of making Sanatan Dharma relevant to modern people in the modern world? Are self-realized acharyas shackled to tradition and custom or do they have the right and authority to update and rennovate the process of parampara in proper context to the modern forms of communication and transmission of knowledge and information? Is the system of parampara still bound and shackled to the same customs and practices of ancient civilizations, or is it possible that the system of parampara can be served by modern techonology and communication systems? Isn't the true essence of the parampara the transmission of the spiritual conception from the spiritual master to the worshiper by some means of communication. If we actually insist to follow the letter of the law of the Vaishnava smriti governing initiation, then practically nobody in the Saraswata Gaudiya sampradaya is properly initiated. So, what to do? What to do is to follow the modern self-realized, empowered acharyas who have made the necessary adjustments to time, place and circumstance and let go of our preconceived notions about tradition, parampara and diksha.

from Gosai.com I found this quote: