Guruvani

This kind of statement is a direct attack on the very principles and practices of Srila Prabhupada, as Srila Prabhupada gave gayatri mantras to hundreds of disciples though tape. So, obviously, Gaura Govinda Maharaja departed with Srila Prabhupada on this issue. His reasons for departing from the obvious teachings of Srila Prabhupada (teaching by example that sabda-brahma can descend through tape recording of the acharya), are quite obvious. But, I will leave that up to the imagination of the readers. Srila Sridhar Maharaja described how Vyasadeva took sabdha-brahma and rendered it into script. He also said that it is not impossible that sabdha brahma can come through tapes or recordings. So, if sabdha, can be rendered into script, then why not recorded sound? If the recording has it's origin in aprakrita sound, then the material energy of the tape and recording become spiritualized just like any other material thing that is used in the service of Krishna. Srila Prabhupada followed Srila Rupa Goswami who propounded that any material thing can be spiritualised in the service of Krishna and he did not approve of false renunciation of material advancements that can be used in the service of Krishna. Why can a material body or a piece of marble or a chunk of brass become spiritualized while tape recorded sound vibration cannot? Srila Prabhupada showed by his own practices and example that he in fact approved that sabdha brahma can be transmitted through tape recording or recorded sound vibrations. Gaura Govinda Maharaja directly insulted this practice of Srila Prabhupada with his opinion that sabdha brahma cannot be transmitted by recorded message. There are some that would consider such statements as directly offensive to Srila Prabhupada himself.

Yes, you are correct. Srila Prabhupada didn't offer any disapproval of Srila Saraswati Thakur giving the control of his properties over to a particular disciple. What he did offer was an example of how the disciple (or disciples) who inherit the properties of the spiritual master are not necessarily blessed with the power to preach Krishna consciounsess all over the world. My point I guess is that ISKCON has suffered greatly since the passing of Srila Prabhupada and the mission of Srila Prabhupada has subsequently suffered greatly and the momentum of ISKCON has practically come to a standstill. If the leaders of ISKCON had actually perfectly executed the orders of Srila Prabhupada, then there is no reason that ISKCON should have suffered so much. ISKCON has suffered so much because of deviation from the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. The orders of the spiritual master are very powerful and full of success and accomplishment. The blows that ISKCON has suffered are due to disobediance to the orders of Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON would have realized immeasurable success and accomplishment had the orders of Srila Prabhupada been strictly adhered to. ISKCON has suffered so much and lost so many ardent followers of Srila Prabhupada because the leadership of ISKCON has not obeyed Srila Prabhupada and maintained the standards of Srila Prabhupada. We see that in Sri Caitanya Saraswata Matha that there has been great growth and expansion and everyone is happy because they are happy that the successor to Srila Sridhar Maharaja has represented Srila Sridhar Maharaja very nicely. ISKCON has suffered because ISKCON has not pleased Srila Prabhupada. The next question is where did ISKCON go wrong and is there anything that can be done to rectify the terrible suffering that so many sincere devotees of Srila Prabhupada have suffered due to bad leadership and corrupt administration of ISKCON? Apparently, the spiritual murder of so many sincere devotees of Srila Prabhupada has never been a concern of the ISKCON administration. On the spiritual deaths of so many disciples of Srila Prabhupada, the ISKCON leadership has marched ahead with it's self-serving bureaucracy and rubber-stamp gurus.

The key is that first the qualification must be there. Can the spiritual master actually deliver the disciple back to Godhead? If the spiritual master is himself not from Vrajaloka or of Vrajaloka, then of course there is certainly the question of whether or not the "guru" can deliver a disciple to a place that he himself is simply aspiring to attain. Therefore, the spiritual master must be perfectly self-realized and free from all material attachments including attachment to the property of the spiritual master. Certainly, Srila Prabhupada hoped for a successor, but in the mood of his own spiritual master he simply prayed that if he could create ONE pure devotee that he would consider his mission a success. The GBC system of dimestore gurus, that are a dollar a dozen, is certainly manufacturing many unqualified gurus that are simply using the property of the spiritual master to prop themselves up as a spiritual master. These career gurus that live off of the properties of the spiritual master are very questionable and many of them have already gone back down to service of the senses and many more will go down in the coming years rendering the Gaudiya parampara as untrustworthy and riddled with false acharyas. Many of us do not believe this system or this standard would ever be acceptable to Srila Prabhupada and thus the GBC has lost it's claim to be representing Srila Prabhupada. In short, they have become a mob that has plundered the properties of the spiritual master and divided it up under the code of honor amongst thieves.

What is also VERY TELLING about this situation of using the property of the spiritual master to prop up oneself as guru with the borrowed plumes of the property of the spiritual master is that right after the above statement quoted from Srila Prabhupada, he makes the next statement using the demon Ravana as an example: So, the matter of using the properties of the spiritual master for one's own purposes is thus compared to Ravana kidnapping Sita from Lord Rama - the kidnapping of Laksmi Devi from Lord Narayan. In othere words, it is a very despicable act that one will have to pay dearly for.

Here in this Bhagavatam purport Srila Prabhupada mentions the situation of a disciple's desire to enjoy the property of the spiritual master and of the spiritual master giving him the property but not the power to preach Krishna consciousness all over the world. Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 5.18.22 purport: So, by looking at this purport of Srila Prabhupada we can see that his idea of serving the spiritual master has nothing to do with acquiring his temples, ashrams and assets. Rather, serving the spiritual master doesn't depend at all on being in the position to inherit artificial guru positions on the strength of propping oneself up with the properties of the spiritual master to present oneself as a spiritual master. We can see from this purport that Srila Prabhupada did not approve of propping oneself up as guru with the properties of the acharya and amassing disciples off of the residual effect of his preaching efforts. If one wants to really serve Srila Prabhupada, then using his properties to couch oneself within an aritifical enivornment that was actually the achievements of the spiritual master is a form of cheating. It cheats the spiritual master, the disciples and oneself as well. A genuine successful preacher does not become guru on the strength of borrowed plumes of the properties of the spiritual master.

no, I am not a Hare Krishna sadhu. ISKCON love? wow...... you must be innocent. just keep away and stay like that. ISKCON is a house of horrors since 1977. stay clear.......

I am embarrassed for you that you are embarrassed for me for not selling out to NASA and the scientific demons.

well, if condescending like an arrogant fool makes you feel better go ahead. I don't need your pity. Maybe you need deprogrammed? Maybe the cult got to you and ate away at your mind and ability to think for yourself?

I don't remember what happened 4 years ago. They were less tolerant back then and it was easy to get banned unless you acted like a jellyfish in a bucket of jello. They have banned many Hare Krishna devotees. Hare Krishna devotees can be very opinionated and strong-minded. The moderators wanted it to be an orgy of love and brotherhood. After 5 years I guess they have finally realized it will never be that. If they banned all us troublemakers the forum would go silent and nobody would have anybody to pick on anymore. They should pay me for being the whipping boy on this forum...

the reason I don't use my devotee name is because I got banned about 4 years ago and could not use my devotee name account anymore. so, I came up with guruvani and have just stuck with that. unlike some creeps around here I never sign out and post anonymously. whenever I post, everybody knows who it is.

you must be a newbie around here. I have been on this forum for 4 years and everybody that is anybody here knows that my devotee name is Kshamabuddhi das, initiated in ISKCON in 1975 in L.A. and was trained up directly by Danavir Maharaja. I have even added my pic to my avatar and now I am my own avatar... see how special I am?

oh, god.....here he is again.... the old-timer that acts like a baby. Hey, old-timer, tell us who you are and you might get a little respect. If you want to hide in the weeds talking crap then you will get no respect from me. If you actually told me who you were I could probably respect you. I respect all the old devotees, but not if they act like wierdos posting on the forum anonymously like creeps.

neither. what you are saying is wrong. He did not say that Rahu chasing the Moon is an allegory. He said He said that sometimes it is explained allegorically. That is not the same as saying that it is an allegory. You are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions hastily without proper discimination. Please don't put words in the mouth of Srila Prabhupada and make false claims against his statements to support your own views.

so what is your base you baseless nobasevadi?

so, some letter to a pinhead neophyte that was having problems understanding the esoteric mysteries of the Bhagavat is supposed to undo the Bhagavatam and everything Srila Prabhupada wrote in the 5th canto? not in my book bub! Prabhupada had to dish out some pablum to the little babies that couldn't escape the shackles of scientific thinking and embrace the mystical. one letter to a neophyte cannot negate what Srila Prabhupada wrote in his books. At least not for anyone with more than a couple of brains cells in his skull.

yeah, that is when all the groupies line up behind Narayana Maharaja and walk around in circles?

that is what is called Bhagavati diksha. yes, it is for real. clowns like you aren't for real. you don't study shastra. you think whiskers is gonna save you because you took formal diksha from him.

Probably long before you did.

I am not so sure. I think the nutjob is the one who thinks the guru is a stool-bag and that he can touch you on the head and make you all giddy in love of God. (i.e the groupies of Narayana Maharaja)

Fundy? Mahaprabhu said the Bhagavat Purana was spotless. You say it is has a bunch of bad information. I think I will stick with Mahaprabhu if that is alright with you. (damn left-wing liberal)

looks like the invasion of Narayan Maharaja groupies and the stool-bag guru siddhanta.

Well, you say the Bhagavatam is wrong and you and your little pinhead buddies the scientists have got it all figured out. I say that the Bhagavatam is right and you and your little pinhead buddies the scientists don't know diddly-sqaut about the mysteries of the universe. In short, you are pathetic and disgusting.

This topic is not about ritvik. So, you are just grasping at straws. You are one of them shallow pinheads that thinks the Bhagavatam describes the universe in empric terms based upon gross sensual perception. The problem is not with the Bhagavatam. The problem is that you are a fool and don't understand that.