Govindaram

Pretending yes, I enjoy these little rants with you, offers still open, one day you'll need my help. Haribol!

My posts are improving? {o-0}

You say nobodys helps you, Re-read what you stated, I am wondering why now. I offered my help, what more do you want? Nobody is worthy to help you. And you know it yourself. I don't mean that in offensive way, sorry. Ps. I am hypocrite, you are more advanced than me.

All Glories to Sri Guru & Gauranaga! What mentality {work-wise} are you of from Birth? Lets discover what Varna you belong to. _____ Lets first of all, see who are Not in right Varna. NO worship to Krsna- 5th Class Person. Sudra: Factory/Labour we are the 'Feet' of Varna System, Feet are most important. Kulapavana says in another Thread about why we do not declare our varna? I would like to say why.. Our Ego won't allow this, also we do not know the Truth about this System in our minds, we should be happy to be guided by Pure Brahmanas is it not? So what exactly is the problem? We would be better guided by 5th Class men? ____ Lets say I work in a Factory and I am a devotee, I do Diety worship at home, chant/read, I am following my Guru, or I am office worker, or a Government Minister, I do same as Factory worker, do we see the difference, no because it is aimed at Krsna, this is forgotten nature, Please I would like to hear from devotees on this.

If I maybe doing service and I achieve No help, then I don't care very much, if you indeed require assistance Krsna will send you, why do you worry so much?! Your site is Advanced, what help do you need? I will help if I can even for 10 mins, tell me?

He came as Shrivasa Pandita and he is also Mudhumangala in Krsna-lila, but he is also son of a maid, where he took Maha-Maha-prasadam and became the Greatest devotee, so was this a Lila? Since Narada Muni is Eternally manifest as Madhumangala? Oh Man, spiritual life eh, more questions than answers!

Nitya-siddha- At what point did we become Liberated? Nitya-bhadda- At what point did we become Conditioned? Ask Krsna. Its all our own fault Prabhu. There must be certain souls, who never desire to leave the side of Krsna. If somebody goes to Goloka they are Eternally Liberated. Its our choice, don't you think? Sorry if you don't understand what I'm saying, its not easy explaining 'Eternal'.

Hare Krsna I am a liberated person, at what <font color="blue">time </font color>in 'History' did this take 'place' There is more to this I fear /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bg.6.14 {excerpt} The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. ____ What if we flipped this quote over, is would be same for Nitya-siddha na? yes?

I just posted this quote in another Forum, whats going on? The test of preaching ability is whether one is making some disciples or not. So it appears that your preaching is going on nicely. The standard of purity which I have introduced in the Krsna Consciousness movement will give you the real spiritual strength needed to preach. If you will simply stick to your principles, you will gain the respect of the whole world and our preaching work will be successful. - Letter to: Tirthapada, Bombay, 13 November, 1970 (excerpt) I am successful only because I am following strictly the orders of my Guru Maharaja, and I do not deviate. Therefore people respect what I am saying and they listen because I do not say one thing and do another. So now you are doing my work and you shall be like me and be yourselves the worthy representatives of our disciplic succession. - Letter to: Madhudvisa, Los Angeles, 16 June, 1972

Hare Krsna, I am Thinking if Varna is established there would be more money, people wouldn't spend money on mundane items like i.e Pop Records/drugs/etc, also what I feel Yashada-nanada is saying that peoples are mostly already in their Varna, so engage them from there, make it simple, what ya think? It all sounds simple from what your both devotees are saying, but of-course it is not so, what are Vaishnava's doing about it? Or is it not so much the right time? So what are we going to do about it? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

This is nice Sankarshan Das Adhikari: ...real acceptance will be to chant your rounds daily without fail and strictly following the 4 principles. Otherwise you cannot claim to be a disciple. Disciple means discipline. It does not mean merely a sentiment. ____ Disciple means discipline. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

That explains it then-

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, from The Harmonist, December 1931, vol. XXIX No.6 Thakur Bhaktivinode has predicted the consummation of religious unity of the world by the appearance of the only universal church which bears the eternal designation of the Brahma Sampradaya. He has given mankind the blessed assurance that all Theistic churches will shortly merge in the one eternal spiritual community by the grace of the Supreme Lord Shree Krishna Chaitanya. ___ Where do we start /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Hare Krsna A Devotee said to me they could talk to their Guru. Could be maybe they knew them before?

___ INSTRUCTION OF THE PREVIOUS ACARYAS _______ Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura...wanted to reestablish daiva-varnasrama. In daiva-varnasrama there cannot be acknowledgment of social status according to birthright because in Bhagavad-gita it is said that the determining considerations are guna and karma, one's qualities and work. It is this daiva-varnasrama that should be established all over the world to continue a perfect society for Krsna consciousness. This may be astonishing to foolish critics, but it is one of the functions of a Krsna conscious society. - SB 5.1.24 PURPORT ...Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astottara-sata Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja Prabhupada. He was creating more brahmacaris and sannyasis for preaching work, but I am creating more grhasthas (applause), because in Europe and America the boys and girls intermingle so quickly and intimately that it is very difficult to keep one brahmacari. So there is no need of artificial brahmacaris. It is sanctioned. My Guru Maharaja wanted to establish daiva-varnasrama. So married life is called grhastha-asrama. It is as good as sannyasa-asrama. ...As far as we are concerned, we are trying to establish daiva-varnasrama, as it is instructed by the Gosvamis, by Hari-bhakti-vilasa, by our spiritual master. May not be very perfect, but we are trying our best to introduce this daiva-varnasrama. - Bg 7.3 LECTURE Bombay 29 March 1971 Krsna says, catur-varnyam maya srstam [bg. 4.13]. My Guru Maharaja also wanted to establish daiva-varnasrama. Yes. - SB 5.5.29 LECTURE Vrndavana 16 November 1976 Daiva-varnasrama. My Guru Maharaja wanted this that there be regular varnasrama, qualified. - Morning Walk Los Angeles 8 December 1973 Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura: Varnasrama and Vaidhi-Bhakti: TEXT sadhana-kale ye paryanta hrdaya kama ache se paryanta varnasramadi dharmera apeksa thake TRANSLATION At the time of practicing sadhana-bhakti, so long as there is material desire within the heart, one should remain within the confines of the varnasrama system. PURPORT The relationship between the aforementioned varnasrama-dharma and vaidhi-bhakti ought to be examined. The question is, is the varnasrama institution negated, or should it be abandoned when one takes to the process of bhakti, or should the rules and regulations of varnasrama be followed in order to properly cultivate vaidhi-bhakti? As we have said, the main reason for the cultivation of varnasrama a is that maintaining the body in good health, improving the faculty of the mind, promoting social well-being, and learning the science of the Self are all conducive to the practice of pure devotional service. Who can deny the necessity of the varnasrama institution as long as the living being is bound up in the human body? If it is abandoned, and the above-mentioned four principles are lacking, the jiva will go astray and no good whatsoever will accrue to him. One should, therefore, strictly adhere to the rules governing varnasrama for the sake of the mind, society, and one's advancement in Krsna consciousness. But the observance of varnasrama-dharma is not the sole business of the jiva. Therefore, with the assistance of varnasrama-dharma, one must cultivate pure devotional service. The purpose of the varnasrama institution is to facilitate the practice of devotional service. The question may arise that since the practice of varnasrama is a dilatory affair, what will one's duty be if a conflict arises with one's devotional practice? The answer is that if one does not maintain and nourish the healthy condition of the body, mind, society, and the pursuit of self-realization, how will it be possible to cultivate the higher endeavor, devotional service? If, abandoning the varnasrama a institution, one acts independently, then the demands of the body and mind will cause one to become intoxicated with material desire and no sign of devotion will manifest itself. (First vrsti, sixth dhara.) There should be a thorough overhauling of the social system, and society should revert to the Vedic principles, that is, the four varnas and the four asramas. - SB 4.29.54 PURPORT In the Kali-yuga everyone is sudra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a sudra. It is meant for the ksatriya. And nobody is being trained as ksatriya or brahmana. Everyone is being trained as sudra or utmost vaisya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the sudras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaisyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and sudra and vaisya. There is no ksatriya, there is no brahmana. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brahmanas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Krsna. So we have got very serious mission. - Room Conversation London 15 August 1971 Generally, we understand, vaisya means the mercantile class of men. No. At the present moment the so-called vaisyas are sudras, less than sudras. Why? Now the vaisya's business is krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [bg. 18.44]. The vaisyas must be engaged in producing foodgrains, but they are not interested. They are interested for opening factories for bolts and nuts and tires, Goodwheel tires, Goodyear tires. Now you eat tire and bolt nut. No, you cannot eat. You have to eat rice, and rice is ten rupees per kilo. That's all. Because no vaisya is producing food grains. This is the defect. They don't see the defect. They're simply howling, bawling, "Oh, it has increased price". Why not, increased, price? There are millions of people in Bombay city. Who is producing food grain? But they are known as vaisya. What kind of vaisya? There is no brahminical culture; there is no brain. There is no ksatriya who can give you protection. There are so many defects. So if you want to remodel your life, the society, the human society, nationally or internationally-everything is spoken here, international-then you have to take to the advice of Krsna. This is the purpose of Krsna consciousness movement: wholesale, thorough, overhauling of the human society. We have not manufactured anything, concocted things. It is very scientific. If you actually want to fulfill the mission of your life, then you have to take to this advice of Bhagavad-gita, very scientific and spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without any defects. - Bg 4.13 LECTURE Bombay 2 April 1974 Practically attract. Practically attract. The Hare Krsna movement will practically attract the people. If the world affairs are adjusted according to our Krsna conscious plan, there will be no difficulty for all the nations, all the countries. They will be happy. So we have to educate people gradually. And by our example, living example, we'll have to attract. - Morning Walk Vrndavana 15 March 1974 Everything should be systematic otherwise there will be chaos. There will be chaos. Nobody will be happy... That is described in the Bhagavad-gita, naraka eva kalpate: the whole world will be hell. That has become now. The whole world has now become hell. So the Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. It is overhauling the whole human, social, political, religious... - SB 1.15.25-26 LECTURE Los Angeles 4 December 1973 How there can be any peace? It is not possible. There is no brahmana, no ksatriya, maybe a few vaisyas only. They are also half-reformed. And European culture, that is canòala culture, yavana culture. There is no reformation, no brahmana, no ksatriya, no vaisyas, simply sudras and canòalas mostly canòalas. So Krsna consciousness movement is means for thoroughly overhauling the whole human society. - Morning Walk Ahmedabad 25 September 1975 So all over the world. It is not only in India-all over the world. There cannot be peace unless you reform the whole social structure, and that can be done only by this movement, Krsna consciousness. Only by this movement. - SB 6.1.56-62 Surat 3 January 1971 (Adubhai Patel's House) In the material life there must be division of activities. That is accepted in the Bhagavad gita [bg 4.13] as catur varnyam maya srstam guna karma vibhagasah tasya kartaram api mam viddhy akartaram avyayam [bg. 4.13] So in the beginning if we start a varnasrama college to teach internation ally students from all over the world to learn to be educated as brahmanas, as Ksatriyas, as vaisyas, as sudras, by quality and work, that will be the basic principle of Krishna Consciousness. ...If you kindly consider on this point and the varnasrama college is started, I am sure the chaotic condition of human society will be completely settled up. - Letter to: Tarun Kanti Ghosh Babu New Delhi 11 March 1974 The politician's business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very [pitiful]... Unless they take to Krsna consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varnasrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varnasrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brahmana; one class, ksatriya; one class, vaisya; and one class, sudra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the sudras ...So everywhere, in each center, this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of the varnasrama. At the same time, this program of devotional service. Then it will go on very nicely. ...But if you show that you are actually doing something ideal, then they will appreciate. Make a small unit of community and show ideal life, not idle life. Ideal life. - Morning Walk Vrndavana 12 March 1974 So this is position. Therefore, because we are Krsna conscious, we are servants of God, therefore it is our duty to save this human civilization. You see. Krsna wants it. And to save this human civilization, these two classes are required very urgently. So you American boys and girls, you are intelligent, you have got all facilities. At least in your country, create these two classes, brahmana and ksatriya. The world will be saved, and you will be saved, and Krsna will be pleased. - SB 1.2.14 LECTURE Los Angeles 17 August 1972 The other day I was suggesting the governor that "Open varnasrama college." As we are training a medical practitioner and an engineer or any particular type of line, similarly, there must be training school and college where a person or a boy may be educated as a brahmana or as a ksatriya. - SB 1.7.7 LECTURE Vrndavana 24 April 1975 But Krsna's grace, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varnasrama school required. - Morning Walk "Varnasrama College" Vrndavana 14 March 1974 One politician, minister in Calcutta, he came to see me, I was talking. "Why there is chaotic condition?" And the simple reason is there is no this catur-varnya system is lost. Practically without any brahminical culture, ksatriya culture, people remain sudras, the fourth-class man. Or fifth-class men. So unless there are first-class men, second-class men, at least third-class men, only fourth-class, fifth-class, sixth-class men, how they can conduct. That is not possible. Therefore it is enjoined that catur-varnyam maya srstam [bg. 4.13]. This division of the society must be observed. Educational institution, there should be, but the education.... Just like in a university, they have different departments: medical department, engineering department, or biological and so many, psychological, chemical, physical.... They have so many departments. But there is no department, brahminical, kshatriyacal, or vaisya, nothing. - Bg 4.13 LECTURE Bombay 2 April 1974 Prabhupada: Yes. Prof. Pater Porsch: A kind of a university also. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Yes. Prof. Pater Porsch: Like Indian and allied sciences, Vedic sciences. Prabhupada: My idea is that all our centers should be self-supported. We do not like that idea that for your support you have to go 100 miles to get your bread. That is a very dangerous drawback. You produce your food locally and then support yourself. - Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer Germany 19 June 1974 I have also received the enclosed clipping from Ottawa and the information about the property. This property must be considered by the GBC if it can be properly utilized, it is nice, for Varna-asrama College and [dairy] farm. With 100 acres for cultivation you can make much production. - Letter to: Jagadisa Bombay 12 November 1974 Prabhupada: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita: annad bhavanti bhutani: "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. - Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green Atlanta 1 March 1975 Prabhupada: ...It is recommended in the Bhagavad-gita, catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [bg. 4.13]. The gunas are there. Just like naturally one is taking education just to become a politician, one is taking education how to become a high character saintly person. That natural inclination is already there, but that is not being properly harnessed. Therefore a regular educational institution should be there where proper training of brahmana, proper training of ksatriya, vaisya, must be given. These four divisions must remain there. And the, so far the brahminical culture, that must be there. Otherwise you cannot say that you become moralist. Where is the example of moralist? A section of person must be there, fully moralist. That ideal section is now lacking. Therefore, what I have written, that? Brahmananda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brahmanas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential." Prabhupada: So therefore this varnasrama college is very essential. ...So in our India, in a place like Vrndavana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varnasrama college is established. - Conversation with Governor Vrndavana 20 April 1975 Justin Murphy: ...You're saying that we don't have the first class of man. Prabhupada: So you create...By education you create. Justin Murphy: Fine. But how... Prabhupada: They have to be trained. Just like you have been trained up as geographer; similarly, a certain man can be trained up as first-class man by education. Justin Murphy: But trained by others or trained by themselves? Prabhupada: No, there must be institution. Justin Murphy: But surely training by oneself. But training by oneself, such as for example an Albert Einstein or a Bertrand Russell... Prabhupada: No, no, no, no, no, no. By teacher. You have become geographer not by yourself. - Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) Perth 14 May 1975 So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. - Room Conversation with of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare Melbourne 21 May 1975 So these two important things took place in the Kuruksetra. So we must have a very big temple there, and a varnasrama college. This is my desire. Krsna's direct instruction, Bhagavad-gita. It should be a historical... It is historical. People should come here as the most important historical place. And Gita is well known all over the world. And Gita begins with the word dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [bg. 1.1]. So Kuruksetra, in that sense very important. - Arrival Conversation Los Angeles 20 June 1975 Krsna says, "I have made this varnasrama for the benefit of the whole human society, although I don't belong to any varna, asrama." Krsna has nothing to do, but to maintain the human society very peaceful, advancing in spiritual knowledge, this varnasrama is required. Therefore sometimes I become very eager to start a varnasrama college. We have nothing to do with varnasrama, we Krsna..., But we want to see that the whole human society is peaceful. That is our mission. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. - SB 6.1.12 LECTURE Los Angeles 25 June 1975 Regarding the Jayapur land, yes it is situated in an important place, a good locality although a little deserted... I also want to open the Varna Ashrama College there as there is sufficient land. - Letter to: Tejiyas Philadelphia 13 July 1975 There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. - Conversation with Clergymen Detroit 15 June 1976 So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brahmana, certain section as ksatriya, certain section as vaisya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a sudra family. Take education. Be qualified. - Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced Mayapura 14 February 1977 So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to reestablish daiva-varn asrama, where brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra, everyone. Systematic. We are, therefore, proposing to start a college, varnasrama college. It is proposed... We are trying so many things, but this is also one of the programs, that the people of the world, they should be educated according to the quality and work: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra. - Bg 7.1 LECTURE Bhubaneshwar 22 January 1977 Simply enforcing laws and ordinances cannot make the citizens obedient and lawful. That is impossible. Throughout the entire world there are so many states, legislative assemblies and parliaments, but still the citizens are rogues and thieves. Good citizenship, therefore, cannot be enforced; the citizens must be trained. As there are schools and colleges to train students to become chemical engineers, lawyers or specialists in many other departments of knowledge, there must be schools and colleges to train students to become brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, sudras, brahma caris, grhasthas, vanaprasthas and sannyasis. This will provide the preliminary condition for good citizenship (varnasrama-gunan-vitah). - SB 9.10.50 PURPORT This is the secret of success. After being initiated and receiving the orders of the spiritual master, the disciple should unhesitatingly think about the instructions or orders of the spiritual master and should not allow himself to be disturbed by anything else. This is also the verdict of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, who, while explaining a verse of Bhagavad-gita (vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana, Bg. 2.41), points out that the order of the spiritual master is the life substance of the disciple. The disciple should not consider whether he is going back home, back to Godhead; his first business should be to execute the order of his spiritual master. Thus a disciple should always meditate on the order of the spiritual master, and that is perfectional meditation. Not only should he meditate upon that order, but he should find out the means by which he can perfectly worship and execute it. - SB 4.24.15 PURPORT One should not deviate from or surpass the instructions of the spiritual master. One should not be simply intent on consulting books but should simultaneously execute the spiritual master's order (yathopadesam). - SB 5.5.14 PURPORT Srila Prabhupada was most enlivened to hear the report of New Govardhana Farm. His Divine Grace in the last month or so has been stressing the importance of these farm projects, and said, "This is the next aspect of Krsna consciousness which I wish to push forward. If I am able to travel again, then I shall visit the farms and make them perfect. On these farms we can demonstrate the full varnasrama system. If these farms become successful then the whole world will be enveloped by Krsna consciousness. "From your letter I can understand how nice this farm is. I am very happy to see fresh vegetables, fresh fruits, grains, the devotees taking sumptuous prasadam and chanting Hare Krsna. This is the actual meaning of human life. It is a very good farm, from your letter I can understand. Whatever you build, get the building materials locally. If you can manufacture tiles locally, then your house problem is solved. Build up bamboo frame, and on it place tiles. In any event get everything locally. I wish to make a farm tour and then I shall surely visit your farm." I suggested to Srila Prabhupada that he was the Farm Acarya, but Srila Prabhupada said, "Krsna is the Farm Acarya. Baladeva is holding a plow, and Krsna is holding the calf. Krsna advised Nanda Maharaja not to perform Indra puja but to worship the land, Govardhana because it was supplying all foodstuffs for the residents of Vrndavana and the cows as well." So Srila Prabhupada wants you to develop this farm very nicely as it will be the future program to present to the world as the ideal of Krsna consciousness. In the cities, we are interested for preaching but we cannot present the ideal varnasrama system, this is only possible at the farms, so they are very important. - Letter from Tamal Krsna Goswami, Secretary to Srila Prabhupada to Hari Sauri dasa, ISKCON Melbourne, 10 August 1977 (sent from Krsna Balarama Mandir, Vrndavana) Abhirama dasa: "I was personally present on two occasions when Srila Prabhupada spoke about how important establishing varnasrama was to him. Both times were in the summer of 1977, in Prabhupada's room in Vrndavana, before he left to go to London. At the time, Tamala Krsna Goswami was Srila Prabhupada's personal secretary, and I his assistant. I was also Prabhupada's nurse. "The first time, several devotees were with Srila Prabhupada. We knew that his health was getting weaker. He was talking to the devotees about his imminent departure. 'I have no lamentation,' Prabhupada said. He paused for a few seconds, and then he said, 'No, I have one lamentation.' A devotee asked, 'Because you have not finished translating the Srimad Bhagavatam?' Prabhupada replied, 'No, that I have not established varnasrama.' "On the next occasion, some time later, I was with Srila Prabhupada in his room when he made the statement, 'Fifty percent of my work is not complete because I have not established varnasrama.'" - Telephone Interview with Abhirama dasa, Vrndavana, India 18 February 1996, (Interviewer: Hare Krsna dasi) "We are about to embark on a new phase of our movement: varnasrama." - Prabhupada to Jagadisa dasa, who was taking Srila Prabhupada to the train to Allahabad (January 1977) "I was just discussing two years [1994?] ago with Nanda Kumara dasa in Arizona. He was telling me that Prabhupada personally told him that in our lifetime, we would see the establishment of the varnasrama-dharma." - Bhakti-tirtha Swami (June 1996, Gita-nagari Farm) _________

http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/5/19/en1 TRANSLATION My dear Vyasa, even though a devotee of Lord Krishna sometimes falls down somehow or other, he certainly does not undergo material existence like others [fruitive workers, etc.] because a person who has once relished the taste of the lotus feet of the Lord can do nothing but remember that ecstasy again and again. PURPORT A devotee of the Lord automatically becomes uninterested in the enchantment of material existence because he is rasa-graha, or one who has tasted the sweetness of the lotus feet of Lord Krishna. There are certainly many instances where devotees of the Lord have fallen down due to uncongenial association, just like fruitive workers, who are always prone to degradation. But even though he falls down, a devotee is never to be considered the same as a fallen karmi. A karmi suffers the result of his own fruitive reactions, whereas a devotee is reformed by chastisement directed by the Lord Himself. The sufferings of an orphan and the sufferings of a beloved child of a king are not one and the same. An orphan is really poor because he has no one to take care of him, but a beloved son of a rich man, although he appears to be on the same level as the orphan, is always under the vigilance of his capable father. A devotee of the Lord, due to wrong association, sometimes imitates the fruitive workers. The fruitive workers want to lord it over the material world. Similarly, a neophyte devotee foolishly thinks of accumulating some material power in exchange for devotional service. Such foolish devotees are sometimes put into difficulty by the Lord Himself. As a special favor, He may remove all material paraphernalia. By such action, the bewildered devotee is forsaken by all friends and relatives, and so he comes to his senses again by the mercy of the Lord and is set right to execute his devotional service. In the Bhagavad-gita it is also said that such fallen devotees are given a chance to take birth in a family of highly qualified brahmanas or in a rich mercantile family. A devotee in such a position is not as fortunate as one who is chastised by the Lord and put into a position seemingly of helplessness. The devotee who becomes helpless by the will of the Lord is more fortunate than those who are born in good families. The fallen devotees born in a good family may forget the lotus feet of the Lord because they are less fortunate, but the devotee who is put into a forlorn condition is more fortunate because he swiftly returns to the lotus feet of the Lord, thinking himself helpless all around. Pure devotional service is so spiritually relishable that a devotee becomes automatically uninterested in material enjoyment. That is the sign of perfection in progressive devotional service. A pure devotee continuously remembers the lotus feet of Lord Sri Krishna and does not forget Him even for a moment, not even in exchange for all the opulence of the three worlds. _____

Prabhupada: ..In the higher sense, "Thou shalt not kill", means you have to take the prasadam of Krsna. - Room Conversation, Delhi, December 12, 1971

Hare Krsna, I have been seeing on this forum and others, how people are saying: Sri Sri Laksmi is in Category of demi-god. I am hoping for some response. As I am confused about this issue, or are others confusing themselves? I hope I am not being offensive by asking this. -Letter to: Madhusudana, Los Angeles, 24 January, 1969 Regarding your question about why we dress the Deities in very opulent fashion and not as simple cowherds boy and girl, this is an intelligent question and the answer is that according to the regulative principles we cannot worship Radha-Krishna now. Radha-Krishna worship is meant for persons who have already developed spontaneous love of God. In the training period we are only worshipping Laksmi-Narayana. We worship Radha-Krishna because Laksmi-Narayana is there also, but actually we do not worship Radha-Krishna with our present Deity ceremonies; we are worshipping Laksmi-Narayana. Narayana is there when Krishna is there, but actually we do not worship Radha-Krishna in Their Original Form. This is why we should worship Radha-Krishna in Their Laksmi-Narayana feature with all respect and reverence. If we deviate from this standard then we shall be prakrta sahajiya, or a person who takes things very cheap. We worship Laksmi-Narayana, and because Radha-Krishna includes Laksmi-Narayana, there is no necessity of installing a Laksmi-Narayana Deity. It is just like a king who is engaged in administering justice. Actually that business belongs to the justice department. But what is that justice department? It is all part of the kings energy, and the king also has the power to execute this function. ______

Moneys not everything is it.

Reading Prabhupada's you should know already. Diska Guru- puts you in link with Krsna. Siksa Guru- puts you in link with Krsna. They are the same. But in order to gain Diksa the Guru Maharaja has to be present, Siksa you can take from Books, its really that simple. You must require and want to serve Vaishnavas, Not just be after them for Diksa, Vaishnavas are so rare, we should be happy to please them. I hope that helps, I am not qualified to help you, but I know certain facts, as I have had association on this forum and elsewhere with Devotees.

Send them all in.

They have this site in the Uk, you can check and see what your old school peoples are doing now, I mean not everybody is there as you gotto sign-up, but it amazing to see how people we thought would never become anything, now are better off even more than yourself. can't remember the site, but I spent hours {lol} looking at it.

Because the demons condemn Vaishnava's, this is the mentality of demons why should we give importance to them? Shouldn't we just throw out these demons {on the mind}. These demonic people are ants, they can be crushed at any time, sometimes when they are prominent, Lord Krishna comes personally to help His DEVOTEES, more Information: see:

___ VARNASRAMA IS POSSIBLE AND IT MUST BE DONE _______ Prabhupada: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varnasrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy. Hari-sauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varnasrama is not possible. Prabhupada: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop. Hari-sauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varnasrama and like that. Prabhupada: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The... People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridasa Thakura to chant, it is not possible. Satsvarupa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also. Prabhupada: Yes. Thakaha apanara kaje, Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Apanara kaja ki. Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended, sthane sthitah. And if they do not remain in the sthana, then the sahajiya's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyas also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyasa but he was given sannyasa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varnasrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varnasrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and... Satsvarupa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community? Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Brahmana, ksatriyas. There must be regular education. Hari-sauri: But in our community, if the..., being as we're training up as Vaisnavas... Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-sauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society? Prabhupada: Vaisnava is not so easy. The varnasrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaisnava. It is not so easy to become Vaisnava. Hari-sauri: No, it's not a cheap thing. Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava, is not so easy. If Vaisnava, to become Vaisnava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. - Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced Mayapura 14 February 1977 Actually, a Vaisnava is above this varnasrama-dharma. But we don't claim that we have become perfect Vaisnava. We are not so impudent. - Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.41 LECTURE Mayapura 21 October 1974 In big scale you cannot make all of them as brahmanas or sannyasis. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Krsna consciousness movement should be introduced according to Krsna's instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu said para-upakara. Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmany abhiratah samsiddhim labhate narah. Para-upakara means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varnasrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible and people will be happy. - Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced Mayapura 14 February 1977 Prabhupada: No luxuries. Live very simple life and you save time for chanting Hare Krsna. Hamsaduta: Yes, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: That is my desire. Don't waste time for bodily comforts. You have got this body. You have to eat something. You have to cover yourself. So produce your own food and produce your own cloth. Don't waste time for luxury, and chant Hare Krsna. This is success of life. In this way organize as far as possible, either in Ceylon or in Czechoslovakia, wherever... Save time. Chant Hare Krsna. Don't be allured by the machine civilization. Hamsaduta: Yes, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: This is soul-killing civilization, this kind way of life, especially European countries. Anywhere you can inhabit it. It is not very difficult. A cottage; you can produce your own food anywhere. Am I right? Hamsaduta: Yes, Prabhupada. We will do it. Prabhupada: And money, spend for Krsna-for Krsna's palace, for Krsna's temple, for Krsna's worship, gorgeous, as gorgeously as... Not for false... This is the human civilization. And to organize this, varnasrama will help you to divide the society-brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya-as there is division in the body. That will help. Don't waste human form of body for sense gratification. I wanted to introduce this. Now I have given you ideas. You can do it. You are all intelligent. For Caitanya Mahaprabhu's para- upakara. .. So you do good to others. Not exploit others. Any human being who has been bestowed by this body has the capacity to chant Hare Krsna. Give them chance and make situation favorable. Is that clear? - Room Conversation Vrndavana 8 October 1977 _________