Guru bhakti and personality cults?

[Yofu]

When is devotion to the Spiritual master guru bhakti and when is it personality cultism?

[sashin]

Whe you have faith that my Guru is the eternal Servant of krishna who can help me cross the material ocean then that is Guru Bhakti

 

But when say my Guru is the only Guru who can do it and rest cannot is what personality cultism and morever vaishnava aparadh

[Yofu]

 

When you have faith that my Guru is the eternal Servant of krishna who can help me cross the material ocean then that is Guru Bhakti

 

But when say my Guru is the only Guru who can do it and rest cannot is what personality cultism and morever vaishnava aparadh

 

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So personality cultism is alive and well in Gaudiya Vaisnavism?

[sashin]

Thakura BhaktiVinoda says that amar-guru jagat-guru advocates are actually at the lowest level of conception

[Mantrabliss]

When you have a bona-fide Guru you are in pure bhakti. If you have a pretending guru like the unauthorized and evil ISKCON gurus then you are lost and it shows you are just as "Showbottle" as they are.

 

Whenever an acarya comes, following the superior orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead or His representative, he establishes the principles of religion, as enunciated in Bhagavad-gita. Religion means abiding by the orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religious principles begin from the time one surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the acarya's duty to spread a bona fide religious system and induce everyone to bow down before the Supreme Lord. One executes the religious principles by rendering devotional service, specifically the nine items like hearing, chanting and remembering. Unfortunately, when the acarya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles in the name of so-called svamis, yogis, philanthropists, welfare workers and so on….The acarya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered. The perfect disciples of the acarya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master….Similarly, a devoted disciple of the spiritual master would rather die with the spiritual master than fail to execute the spiritual master's mission. As the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes down upon this earth to re-establish the principles of religion, so His representative, the spiritual master, also comes to re-establish religious principles. It is the duty of the disciples to take charge of the mission of the spiritual master and execute it properly. Otherwise the disciple should decide to die along with the spiritual master. In other words, to execute the will of the spiritual master, the disciple should be prepared to lay down his life and abandon all personal considerations…. When one becomes serious to follow the mission of the spiritual master, his resolution is tantamount to seeing the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As explained before, this means meeting the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the instruction of the spiritual master. This is technically called vani-seva. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura states in his Bhagavad-gita commentary on the verse vyavasayatmika buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana (Bg. 2.41) that one should serve the words of the spiritual master. The disciple must stick to whatever the spiritual master orders. Simply by following on that line, one sees the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

(Srila Prabhupada from Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.48,50,51)

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with what you just said but then again I get accused of being a ritvik advocate. I don't mean any offense to any other gurus or anything (quite frankly I wish them the best, just don't want to have anything to do with them)but I still think Prabhupada is accessible to the masses as long as his words live on but apparently they are even trying to edit his books to make them more politically correct or something so who knows.

 

 

-D.B. Cooper Jr.

[gHari]

AcidBliss,

 

Please save us the pain of reading your 'evil' aparadha, especially when Srila Prabhupada's name appears under it as though he might have ever written such things. I don't see that as 'pure bhakti'. Indeed, I see that as institution consciousness, not Krsna consciousness ---- foolish meaningless politics for adrenalin and power addicts. Let the silly old women do the gossiping. That is their karma chewing gum, not ours.

 

If you are unable to focus on Sri Krsna, then please label the title of each post 'Aparadha', so those seeking advancement can avoid your bad karma.

 

Thanking you in advance,

 

gHari

[gHari]

I would suggest that if Sri Krsna is not in the center of your life, then you are in a personality cult, whether that personality be a charismatic guru or your very own ahankara false-ego.

 

gHari

[jhsharma]

vasudev sutam devam kans chanur mardhanam

devki parmanandam

krishanam vande jagat gurum

[Kulapavana]

it is up to the followers whether they practice guru vandanam or engage in a personality cult.

 

even some disciples of Srila Prabhupada practiced personality cult. and some still do. such disciples do not understand the true glory and true position of Sri Guru and invent imaginary glories and praises, often at the expense of other pure devotees or other gurus. disciples who practice personality cult denigrate other Vaishnavas to praise their guru. That is offensive.

[Pankaja_Dasa]

This forum should get their heads our of thier ass. And start deleting posts which are offensive to Prabhupada.

[Beggar]

Exactly which posts on this thread do you find offensive to Prabhupada? Do you think that the entire topic is offensive?

 

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[Guest guest]

Guru bhakti = devotion to guru by seeing him/her as incarnation of God come to help you become self-realized.

 

cult = devotion to guru b/c of guru's personality (well thats not a REAL cult, but its not correct guru bhakti)

 

an example of a cult for a FAKE guru is adi Da.

[theist]

 

I would suggest that if Sri Krsna is not in the center of your life, then you are in a personality cult, whether that personality be a charismatic guru or your very own ahankara false-ego.

gHari

Thanks gHari. That is a valuable realization.

[Yofu]

 

This forum should get their heads our of thier ass. And start deleting posts which are offensive to Prabhupada.

Panjaka could you please explain this as I'm baffled by this quote.

There are some devotees who do worship their Guru in a way that is personaltiy cultism. I see it around my Gurudeva.

Just because I see some devotees "worshipping" their Guru in this fashion is not finding fault with the Guru himself.

Also what gives you the right to say what is offensive to Srila Prabhupada?

"That's offensive....(add any phrase you like)" is the best way to stop valuable disussion.

[Guest guest]

 

I would suggest that if Sri Krsna is not in the center of your life, then you are in a personality cult, whether that personality be a charismatic guru or your very own ahankara false-ego.

 

gHari

"Do not ever try to approach Krishna directly. Anyone who talks of Krishna without service to Guru will not be successful. So your faith in Guru and Krishna simultaneously will help you to become crowned with success in the progressive march in Krishna consciousness." (Srila Prabhupada letter, 27 September 1967)

 

So there is NO question of Krishna consciousness without faith in the bona fide guru. The problem is: WHO is the bona fide guru? The answer is: SRILA PRABHUPADA.

[Guest guest]

 

I would suggest that if Sri Krsna is not in the center of your life, then you are in a personality cult, whether that personality be a charismatic guru or your very own ahankara false-ego.

 

gHari

"Do not ever try to approach Krishna directly. Anyone who talks of Krishna without service to Guru will not be successful. So your faith in Guru and Krishna simultaneously will help you to become crowned with success in the progressive march in Krishna consciousness." (Srila Prabhupada letter, 27 September 1967)

 

So there is NO question of Krishna consciousness without faith in the bona fide guru. The question is: WHO is the bona fide guru? The answer is: SRILA PRABHUPADA.

[Yofu]

 

So there is NO question of Krishna consciousness without faith in the bona fide guru. The question is: WHO is the bona fide guru? The answer is: SRILA PRABHUPADA.

 

Is this an example of Personality Cultism? I think so...

[HariBoL1008]

 

I would suggest that if Sri Krsna is not in the center of your life, then you are in a personality cult, whether that personality be a charismatic guru or your very own ahankara false-ego.

 

gHari

Haribol

Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

I think that the point is on following instruction or VANI of Acarya and EGO quest when you must applay power of discrimination, must be seen as a wrong application

We must choos acarya among fake or hypocriets isnt it?

In my humble oppinion I think that the verdict of choosing a guru as a peremptorili NORMAL thing in Vedic society must be caution and NOT on the sentiment based rather on Discrimination Basis and doubting and turning a very singl stone from the past deeds of particular Guru and Order/permission/selfmanifesting quality to be sort of evidance

So instruction from His Divine Grace is of course to doubt certain things and NOT just as comon Fundamentalist said it is aparadha or this is worshiping of own ego....Krishna do not like that nor the Manu samhita.

This is a age of Kali and they are coming to take birth among acarya society to be able to take positions and of corse by the means of changing the philosophi and books !!!!

Already seen folks belive me...

hare krishna

[Beggar]

Both the guru and the disciple must be bonafide. Literally bonafide means “bona” “fide”, from Latin, in good faith. Generally bad faith means that one is being deceptive. So if the guru is genuine and the disciple is deceptively trying hide his or her materialistic motives then the transaction becomes degraded on the part of such a disciple. It is often found that in large scale preaching missions there are many kanishta or materialistic devotees. Their apparently fanatical worship of their guru has the odor of ulterior motives and the stench of insincerity. Of course if such a materialistic devotee who is habituated to self-deception falsely takes the role of guru then the situation becomes quite hopeless. It seems to me that the idea of “personality cult” is an overly broad term borrowed from mainstream pop psychology and the media. It comes from the section of faithless persons who would probably even view the ISKCON of Srila Prabhupada’s time as, “nothing more than a personality cult”. The idea that new religions go through a stage of “charismatic leadership” and then experience a crises after the demise of the charismatic leader is coming from contemporary sociology. When we borrow these terms from atheistic mundane society we allow such atheists and opponents of bhakti to infiltrate our thought system. The situation is compounded especially in America where the courts have intervened in ISKCON and forced their legalistic reality into the lives of the devotees. Case in point, The ISKCON Office of Child Protection, which came out of the legal settlement, designed by lawyers and approved by the court, with the Gurukula Alumni. Not that child protection is a bad thing, it is part of any civilization, but it must be administered by PhD’s etc. who’s education is basically a brainwashing into the legalized and medicalized reality of Western society. Actually to satisfy the courts licensed persons with advanced degrees must administer such programs. These persons are trained to submit to a scientific outlook which studies reality under the microscope with a dead specimen in the slide. But Reality is a living thing not a dead thing. Srila Sridhar Maharaja would say, “Search for Sri Krsna Reality the Beautiful”. Why surrender to the mundane conceptions of people that Srila Prabhupada often referred to as fools and rascals? Why live in fear of their conception of “who is crazy?” Even if the mundane linear thinkers were to see a film of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur worshipped by his most exalted disciples, they would still make the allegation of “personality cult”.