Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

[Guruvani 0]

Srila Prabhupada and Srila Saraswati Thakur both had the required signs of a nitya-siddha.

(1) Born in family of pure devotees.

(2) Krishna conscious from birth

[Guest guest]

 

 

So, according to the guidelines given by Srila Prabhuapda, Bhaktivinode Thakur must been considered as sadhana-siddha.

 

Sadhana-Siddha, Nitya-Siddha

12/30/1999

Swami B.V. Tripurari

"You ask who is right and who is wrong. You want an objective answer to a subjective reality. Guru is ultimately Krsna. If we find Krsna in a Vaisnava, proportionately we will honor him. A mere glimpse of Krsna warrants all regard."

 

Q&A discussion with Swami B.V. Tripurari.

 

Q. In Sanga 12/26 'where time meets eternity,' you said 'the guru who is a sadhana-siddha, who has perfected himself via sadhana, or spiritual practice, (the majority of gurus in our line) has spiritualized his or her practitioner's body (sadhaka-deha) over time.' Could you please elaborate further on 'the majority of gurus in our line who have perfected themselves via sadhana.' Aren't such gurus always perfected, eternal companions of the gopis (perhaps gopis themselves) who have come down to this plane to lift us up to their level? And when you say 'the majority of gurus,' what happens to the minority? If they are not 'perfected over time' does that mean that their disciples are just unlucky?

 

A. The idea is that most of the gurus are sadhana-siddha, the others are nitya-siddhas. All are siddhas. The nitya-siddha is more rare, but not better, for both are siddha. The sadhana-siddha is one who becomes a siddha through sadhana and then serves in the capacity of guru. Narada Muni is a sadhana-siddha. His story is found in Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

While the disciple may think of his or her guru as a nitya-siddha, he may very well be a sadhana-siddha. Most of Prabhupada's disciple think of him as a nitya-siddha. However, he himself used to say that in his previous life he was a doctor and committed no sins. Sridhara Maharaja clearly took the postion of a sadhana-siddha, as did every disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta in Gaudiya Math. Bhaktivinoda Thakura described himself as a sadhana-siddha as well, although Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura thought of him as a nitya-siddha, and taught that he was. Bilvamangala Thakura is the example of a sadhana-siddha pointed to in Bhaktirasamrta-sindhu, and Prahlada Maharaja is also considered a sadhana-siddha. In this way the list goes on.

 

Q. The disciple sees the guru as nitya-siddha but non-disciples may see him as sadhana-siddha or simply as an ordinary man. Who is right, who is wrong? Disciples may see their guru as nitya-siddha but how should you, or I or any non-disciple view such feelings? Do we honor them as corresponding to reality? You cite A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada as an example of a sadhana-siddha in our line. That brings to mind a song that you and Narasingha Maharaja wrote years ago in glorification of Srila Prabhupada.

 

In the song you write that Srimati Radharani summoned her 'servant dear,' ordering him 'tomorrow on earth you will appear.' This seems to imply that prior to his appearance in this world Srila Prabhupada was already with Srimati Radharani. How then can he be a sadhana-siddha?

 

A. Disciples may or may not see their guru as nitya-siddha. They may see him as sadhana-siddha. There is nothing wrong with this. It is also possible that he could be both! Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says regarding Prahlada and Narada Muni 'evam prahladasyamsena sadhana-siddhatvam nitya-siddhatvam ca naradadivaj jneyam.' Prabhupada comments, 'Prahlada Maharaja is a mixed siddha; that is, he is perfect partly because of executing devotional service and partly because of eternal perfection. Thus he is compared to such devotees as Narada.

 

Formerly, Narada Muni was the son of a maidservant, and therefore in his next birth he attained perfection (sadhana-siddhi) because of having executed devotional service. Yet he is also a nitya-siddha because he never forgets the Supreme Personality of Godhead.'

 

So now what?

 

We should honor the vision of others as best as we can within reason. After all, others may be doing that with us when they honor our guru. As you mentioned, your vision may not be theirs. Krsna shows different things to different devotees. You ask who is right and who is wrong. You want an objective answer to a subjective reality. Guru is ultimately Krsna. If we find Krsna in a Vaisnava, proportionately we will honor him. A mere glimpse of Krsna warrants all regard.

 

Regarding Srila Prabhupada, he may be thought of as sadhana-siddha or nitya-siddha. Both are possible. He may represent Radha for one disciple and Subala for another. The poem your refer to is the vision of Sripad Narasingha Maharaja. I honor it, and in service to it, I helped him with the poetic English version of it.

 

Q. I read that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta said that it would take three lifetimes to become perfect; one with namaparadha, the next with namabhasa and the third with suddha-nama. But Srila Prabhupada always used to see 'in this one lifetime.'

 

A. Sri Gurudeva says many things, in many ways, at different times, to different people, for the same purpose - to help them to go back to Godhead. Some may be encouraged to think they can go in this lifetime, others will be encouraged even if they know it may take thousands of lifetimes. The latter are more advanced than the former. Back to Godhead is one thing. Krsna-prema is this and much more.

 

Q. How can a disciple, whose beloved guru is not in the best shape, avoid re-initiation?

 

A. He or she must pray for the upliftment of their Guru. That one who has helped us, we must try to help. How can we desert him? This is a noble attitude. At the same time one must be prepared to take help himself from another Vaisnava, a siksa-guru. We must try to better understand the principle of guru with sincerity and humility. We are trying to approach Krsna-prema, the highest ideal. Sometimes along the path we must adjust our position and re-focus, as knowledge is revealed.

[krsna 3]

 

Actually, Sridhar Maharaja said that Bhaktivinode was sadhana-siddha, not nitya-siddha.

 

At least that is what I heard at SCSMandir.

 

Bhakti Sudhir Maharaja told me that Sridhar Maharaja said Bhaktivinode came up from the ranks of the conditioned souls to become siddha.

 

So, I don't buy the "nitya-siddha" theory behind Bhaktivinode.

 

Nitya-siddhas don't blaspheme the Bhagavat, the Vaishnavas or other such things that Bhaktivinode did before he became a Vaishnava.

 

In the practice of Raganuga-Sadhana bhakti, the Ekadasa-bhava, or the eleven elements of the sadhaka´s siddha-deha, are essential.

Ekadasa-bhava means Gopi-bhava, the mood of the Gopis of Vraja. Sri Caitanya-caritamrita teaches us about Gopi-bhava as follows:

ataeva gopibhava kari angikara

ratri-dine cinte Radha-Krishnera vihara

siddha-deha cinti kare tahai sevana

sakhi-bhave paya Radha-Krishnera carana

"Therefore accept Gopi-bhava to contemplate Radha-Krishna´s pastimes throughout the day and night. By performing manasi-seva within your internally conceived siddha-deha you will attain Radha-Krishna´s feet."

The sadhaka who has intense lobha for attaining the service of Srimati Radhika and Sri Krishna in Vraja, will receive Ekadasa-bhava from the Diksha-Guru, who comes in a Siddha-Guru-parampara descending directly from one of the nitya-siddha associates of Sriman Mahaprabhu, Srila Nityananda Prabhu or Srila Advaita Acarya Prabhu.

Sri Srimad Bhaktivinod Thakur has written about how Ekadasa-bhava is received from Srila Gurudeva. The Thakur himself received it from his eternal Gurudeva Srila Vipina-vihari Gosvami Prabhupada.

Sadhakera yakhan raganuga-marga lobha haya takhan sadgurur nikata pararthana karile tini sadhakera ruci pariksa kariya tahar bhajana nirnoyer sange sange siddha-dehera paricaya kariya diben.

"When the sadhaka´s lobha is awakened for Raganuga-bhakti he will approach his Gurudeva with great humility. After testing the disciple´s sincerity, the bona fide Guru will instruct the disciple and adjust his bhajana according to the identity of his siddha-svarupa."

(Sri Caitanya-siksamrtam, part 6, chapter 5.)

"What rasa is suited to which jiva is determined by his inner relish. When he gets regard for particular form of bhajana, from that bhajana his ruci can be understood. Deciding that ruci, his spiritual master will initiate him accordingly.

(…)

"If anybody possesses greed for the path of Raganuga-sadhana, he will pray to his Guru, who after examining his ruci will determine the type of bhajana suited to him and give him acquaintance of his siddha-deha.

(…)

"The significance of this type of sadhana is to enter the transcendental Lila of Sri Radha-Krishna and remembering Their eternal Names, Form and Beauty, and Qualities by application of the sadhaka´s relationship with Them, in consonance with his own name and form etc., bestowed by the Guru."

In the book Sri Harinama-cintamani the Thakur explains the method of Raganuga-sadhana. It is important to know the authorized method to attain the supreme goal, if one is to make any progress in one´s sadhana-bhajana. Therefore Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur has mercifully explained it, through his parampara teachings, and in his books.

Let´s see how Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur describes the method of Raganuga-sadhana and how it relates to the sadhaka´s Ekadasa-bhava.

ei ekadasa-bhava sampura sadhane

panca dasa laksya haya sadhakajivane

sravana, varana ara smarana, apana

sampatti ei panca vidha dasaya ganana

"The sadhana relating to the eleven items of ekadasa-bhava is executed in five progressive stages:

1.. Sravana-dasa - the stage of hearing about Radha-Krishna-lila.

2.. Varana-dasa - the stage of accepting.

3.. Smarana-dasa - the stage of remembering.

4.. Apana-dasa - the mature stage

5.. Sampatti-dasa - the attainment of the goal."

Next, the Thakur will explain in detail about these five progressive stages.

Sravana-dasa - the stage of hearing

nijapeksa srestha suddha bhavuka ye jana

bhava-marge Gurudeva sei Mahajana

tahara srimukhe bhava tattvera sravana

haile sravana dasa haya prakatana

bhava-tattva dviprakara karaha vicara

nija ekadasa-bhava Krishna-lila ara

"The Ekadasa-bhava-tattva and Krishna´s astakala-lilas should be heard from a suddha-bhakta more advanced than oneself. This means one´s own Gurudeva, and preferably if he is a bhavuka."

He continues:

"That great personality who has no selfish interest, who is absorbed in the experience of pure and exalted sentiments, is the Gurudeva on the path of divine emotion. One should hear the details of divine emotions from his holy lips and this is referred to as Sravana-dasa. The principle of divine sentiments is to be considered from two angles: 1. one´s own eleven aspects of spiritual identity and 2. the Divine Lilas of Krishna."

Varana-dasa - the stage of acceptance

Radha-Krishna astakala yei lila kare

tahara sravane lobha haya antahpure

lobha haile Gurupade jijnasa udaya

kemane paibo lila kaha mahasaya

Gurudeva kripa kari karibe varnana

lila-tattva ekadasa-bhava sangatana

prasanna haiya prabhu karibe adesa

ei bhave lila madhye karaha pravesa

Gururupe siddha-bhava kariya sravana

sei bhava sviya citte karite varana

"When lobha arises upon hearing Radha-Krishna´s astakala-lilas, the disciple may ask:' Oh Gurudeva, how is it possible to attain such lilas?'

If pleased with the disciple, the Guru will relate the lila-tattva in context with the sadhaka´s Ekadasa-bhava saying: 'You may enter the lila in this way.' This stage of acceptance is called Varana-dasa."

Let us now take a look at what Ekadasa-bhava is, since it is given by the Guru at this stage of acceptance. (This process of giving Ekadasa-bhava is popularly called Siddha-pranali.)

To obtain authorized knowledge about this subject one has to consult with Sastra, Guru and Sadhu. According to the Thakur in Jaiva-dharma, Srila Gopala-Guru Gosvami, the eternal associate of Sriman Mahaprabhu and Sri Radha-Krishna was given the task of writing about the method of Raganuga-sadhana, by Sri Gauranga and His associates. The Sri Gaura-Govinda-arcana-smarana-paddhati, by Srila Gopala-Guru´s disciple Srila Dhyanacandra Gosvami, a book which is a copy of the original paddhati with some additional verses, has the following to say about Ekadasa-bhava:

a.. Nama (name)

SriRupamanjarityadi namakhyan anurupatah

cintaniyam yatayogyam svanama vrajasubhruvam

"As Sri Rupa Manjari and the other Vraja-devis have individual names, the sadhaka also has a manjari name which is to be meditated upon."

Srila Bhaktivinod explains further:

Sri Gurudeva ye manjari-nama diben, sei nami sadhakera nityanama baliya janibe. vrajalalanadikera madhye nama dvara manorama haibe.

"The manjari name that the Guru selects is the sadhaka´s eternal name which renders the sadhaka-manjari 'manorama' among the Vraja-sundaris."

b.. Rupa (form)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

rupam yuthesvari rupam bhavaniyam prayatnatah

trailokyamohanam kamoddipanam gopikapateh

"As the Yuthesvari, groupleader (Srimati Radhika), is captivating throughout the three worlds and able to invoke Krishna´s kama, so are Her maidservants. With care and attention one should fix the mind on one´s own form as such."

Jaiva-dharma:

sadhakera ruci anusare Sri Gurudeva rupayauvana sampanna ekti kisori siddha-rupa nirnaya kariben. Acintya cinmaya rupa visistha na haile Sri Radhikara paricarika ke haite pare?

"According to the sadhaka´s ruci, taste, the Guru will prescribe a lovely kisori siddha-svarupa (a manjari-svarupa). Without having an inconceivably beautiful form, could anyone possibly become Radha´s dasi?"

c.. Vayasa (age)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

vayo nanavidham tatra yatu tridasavatsaram

madhuryadbhutakaisoram vikyatam vrajasubhruvam

"The ages of the Vraja-sundaris are all different; the sadhaka-manjari will meditate upon herself as a kisori near about thirteen, the age whereupon youth blossoms."

Jaiva-dharma:

Kaisora vayasa vayasa - dasa vatsara haite solo vatsara paryanta kaisora. Ihakei vayasa-sandhi bale. Manjaridera vayasa dasa haite sevanotikrame caudda vatsra paryanta vridhi paibe. Balya, pauganda o vridha vayasa vrajalalanadikera hay na. Sadhaka nijeke kisori baliya abhiman karibe.

"The kisori age is from ten years up to sixteen and is also referred to as 'vayasa-sandhi' ( the time when a woman´s form develops). The manjaris´ ages start from ten and extend up to fourteen. Radha´s sakhis and manjaris are all kisori. Thus the sadhaka shall conceive of his eternal svarupa as a kisori."

d.. Vesha (dress)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

vesonilpatadyaisca vicitralankritaistatha

svadya dehanurupena svabhava rasa sundarah

"One´s manjari-svarupa is meditated upon as dressed in blue silken garments with gold and jewelled ornaments which are gorgeous to behold."

Jaiva-dharma:

sevara upayogi nana vidha silpa kalaya sakala manjargana abhighya tad anurupa guna o vesa sri gurudeva sadhakake nirdistha kariben.

"The manjaris are well qualified in all arts of seva. According to the sadhaka´s particular ruci, however, the Guru will select in which qualities and in which dress the sadhaka-manjari shall be adorned."

e.. Sambandha (relationship)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

sevya sevaka sambandhah svamanovrtti bhedatah

pranatyaghapi sambandham na kada parivarttayet

"Due to the particular desire of the sadhaka the relationship between the worshipper and the worshippable is adjusted. In life or death this sambandha can never be broken.

Jaiva-dharma:

sadhaka sambandha visaya niye eirupa bhavibena ami sri radhikara paricarikar paricarika, sri radha amar jivitesvari, krishna tahar jivitesvara; sutarang radhavallabhi amar pranesvara.

"The sadhaka´s sambandha with Radha-Krishna is to be meditated upon as follows:

Sri Radhika-devi is my Pranesvari; I am the maidservant of Her maidservants. Because Krishna is Radhika´s Pranesvara - Radha-Vallabha (Radha-Krishna) are my worshippable object."

f.. Yutha (group)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

yathayuthesvariyutha sada tisthiti tadvesa

tathaiva sarvatha tisthed bhutva tad vasavarttini

"The sadhaka-manjari belongs to Sri Radhika´s yutha, group; thus Radha is the yuthesvari, group leader. One should thus meditate:

I follow the requests of Radha and remain by Her side subjugated by Her numerous qualities."

Jaiva-dharma:

Srimati radhikai yuthesvari. Radhikara astasakhir madhye kaharo gane takite haibe sadhaker rucikrame sri gurudeva astasakhider ekti ganer ganer madhye avastan nirdesa kariben. Sei sakhira ajnakrame sri yuthesvari sahita lilamaya srikrishnake sadhaka-manjari seva kariben.

"In Radharani´s yutha each of the eight chief sakhis form subgroups called 'gana'. After testing the sadhaka´s ruci, the Gurudeva will select in which gana the sadhaka-manjari will serve."

7) Ajna (order)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

yuthesvarya sivasyajnamadaya hariradhayo

yathocitanca susrasam kuryadananda samyuta

"The sadha-manjari honours the yuthesvari´s order as her life and soul. Thus all types of appropriate seva are performed to increase the pleasure of Radha-Govinda."

Jaiva-dharma:

Ajna dui prakara arthat nitya o naimittika. Karunamaya sakhi ye nitya seva sadhaka manjarike ajna kariben taha mirapeksa haiya astakalera madhye yakhana yaha kartavya taha kariben. Abar upastita anya kona seva prayojana mota ajna karile taha naimittika ajna; tahao visesa yatnera sahita palan karite haibe.

"Orders are of two types: nitya (regular) and and naimittika (occasional). The daily seva which the merciful Prana-prestha-sakhi imparts is the nitya-ajna. Without consideration the sadhaka-manjari executes them at the prescribed moments during the course of the astakala. On special occasions namittika orders are given. They must also be looked after with due care and attention."

a.. Seva (service)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

camara vyajanadinam sarvajna pratipalanam

itiseva parijneya yathamati vibhagasah

"With expertise the sadhaka-manjari will execute two categories of seva: verbal orders, and relative services, beginning with camara fanning."

b.. Parakastha (one´s supreme ambition)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

sri radhakrishnoryad tad rupamanjarikadya

prapta nityasakhitanca tatha syamiti bhavayet

"I shall become a nitya-sakhi (manjari) and serve Radha and Krishna in the footsteps of Sri Rupa Manjari - this is my parakastha."

c.. Palyadasi (the mood of being a fostered maidservant)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

palyadasi sa ca prokta paripalya priyamvada

svamanovrtti rupena ya nitya paricarika

"By remaining under the care and protection of a senior Vraja-gopi, the sadhaka-manjari is referred to as her palyadasi."

d.. Nivasa (kunja of residence)

Arcana-smarana-paddhati:

nivaso vraja madhye tu radhakrishna sthali mata

vamsivatasca sri nandisvarasca apyati kautukah

"Within Vraja-mandala at Vamsi-vata, Nandisvara, etc., Radha-Krishna enact their nitya-vihara; those lila-sthalis are the residence for my siddha-deha."

Jaiva-dharma:

Vraje nityavasi vasa. Vrajera madhye ksana grame sadhaka gopi haiya janama haya, abar gramantare ksana gopera sahita sadhaka-manjari vivaha hay, kintu krishnera murali rabe akristha haiya radhikara anugatya tahara radha-kundastha kunje ekti kutira vasa kariben - ei abhimane siddha vasi sadhaka manjari nivasa.

"To eternally reside in Vrindavan is the meaning of nivasa. The sadhaka takes birth as a gopi in a particular village in Vraja. Then, after marriage, she resides in her father-in-law´s house. When the sound of Krishna´s melodious flute enters the ears however, the allurement for Radha´s seva brings the sadhaka-manjari to Radha-kunda. It is here that she has a kunja and kutira for residence."

Now, let us return to the description of the five progressive stages of Raganuga-sadhana.

Smarana-dasa - the stage of remembrance

Harinama-cintamani:

nija siddha ekadasa-bhave vrati haye

smaribe sudridha citte nija-bhava caye

smarane vicara eka ache to sundara

apanarera yogyasmrti koto nirantara

apanarera ayogya smarana yadi haya

bahu yuga sadhileo siddhi kabu naya

"One should regularly practice ekadasa-bhava-smarana with special attention on the lilas corresponding to one´s mood. Fortunately, only the lilas in which the sadhaka finds interest need to be contemplated, for otherwise siddhi (perfection) may not take place even after many lifetimes of devotional practice."

When the mature sadhaka has become aware of his sthayi-bhava in relation to Radha-Krishna, only sravanam, kirtanam and smaranam in relation to one´s particular mood should be performed. If a devotee´s sthayi-bhava is manjari-bhava, he will attain siddhi through hearing, reciting and remembering Radha-Krishna´s amorous pastimes. The Gosvamis have written many books about these pastimes, such as Govinda-lilamrta and Krishna-bhavanamrita, so that we may know about and obtain the desire to take part in the pastimes of Radha-Krishna.

Apana-dasa - the mature stage

apana sadhane smrti yabe haoye vrati

acire apana-dasa haya suddha ati

nija suddha bhavera ye nirantara smrti

tahe dura haya sighri yara bandha mati

"In the course of time as the sadhaka becomes adept in the art of smarana-sadhana his mind shall become free from material bondage due to its fixation on the goal."

smarane ei panca-dasa atikrama karite anipuna lokera pakse bahuyuga yaite pare; nipunabyaktidera pakse alpadine apanadasa upastita haya.

"For the unadept, it could take many yugas to progress from Smarana-dasa to Sampatti-dasa. For the expert sadhaka, however, Apana-dasa may awaken in a short time only."

Sampatti-dasa - the attainment of siddhi

samadhi svarupa smrti ye samaye haya

bhavapana dasa asi haibe udaya

sei kale nija siddha-deha abhiman

parajiya jada-deha habe adhisthan

takhana svarupe vraja-vasa ksane ksana

bhavapane sva-svarupe here vraja-vana

"Through unwavering svarupa-smrti (remembrance of one´s siddha-svarupa) samadhi shall be invoked causing one´s material identity to lose precedence. Then, from moment to moment, darsana of Krishna-lila in one´s siddha-svarupa becomes possible."

A jiva who has reached this stage, Svarupa-siddhi, will upon leaving the material body be transferred to a material universe where Radha-Krishna-lila takes place. When Krishna and His associates leave that material universe, the jiva also goes to Goloka Vrindavan, and thus attains the final goal, which is termed Vastu-siddhi.

From a fallen servant of the servants of Srila Bhaktivinod Thakura (Srimati Kamala Manjari),

[Guest guest]

Krsna's response to the delivery of a bona fide guru by Krsna because the devotee cries for it, is complicated, long and off target.

As I have already stated, many devotees in ISKCON were processed like so many citizens by government officials. You just have to fill out the paperwork and do the time. Get somebody to vouch for you- like a material job. It's ridiculous.

And nothing will convince me of the absolute requirement for formal diksa and a means of continuing a Parampara that's not itself a continuous diska succession but a siska succession.

[krsna 3]

 

Do you think Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur is an ordinary devotee? When a nitya siddha descends to this world is he subject to the rules and regulations that apply to those attempting to practice sadhana bhakti?

 

Is there a conflict between the interests [focus] of ISKCON & Srila Bhaktisiddhanta??

 

 

Where there is smoke there is fire.

 

Here is one among the citations from Prabhupada stating that nitya siddha and sadhana siddha come to the same stage:

 

"Maharaja Pariksit was naturally inclined to Lord Krsna from his very childhood. He might have imitated either of the above-mentioned activities, and all of them establish his great devotion from his very childhood, a symptom of a maha-bhagavata. Such maha-bhagavatas are called nitya-siddhas, or souls liberated from birth. But there are also others, who may not be liberated from birth but who develop a tendency for devotional service by association, and they are called sadhana-siddhas. There is no difference between the two in the ultimate issue, and so the conclusion is that everyone can become a sadhana-siddha, a devotee of the Lord, simply by association with the pure devotees. The concrete example is our great spiritual master Sri Narada Muni. In his previous life he was simply a boy of a maidservant, but through association with great devotees he became a devotee of the Lord of his own standard, unique in the history of devotional service."

(SB 2:3: 15)

[Guest guest]

Krsna dasa's response to the delivery of a bona fide guru by Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead because the devotee cries for it, is complicated, long and off target.

 

As I have already stated, many devotees in ISKCON were processed like so many citizens by government officials. You just have to fill out the paperwork and do the time. Get somebody to vouch for you- like a material job. It's ridiculous.

And nothing will convince me of the absolute requirement for formal diksa as a means of continuing a Parampara that's not itself a continuous diksa succession but a siksa succession.

[krsna 3]

 

Krsna's response to the delivery of a bona fide guru by Krsna because the devotee cries for it, is complicated, long and off target.

As I have already stated, many devotees in ISKCON were processed like so many citizens by government officials. You just have to fill out the paperwork and do the time. Get somebody to vouch for you- like a material job. It's ridiculous.

And nothing will convince me of the absolute requirement for formal diksa and a means of continuing a Parampara that's not itself a continuous diska succession but a siska succession.

 

Paramatma is the manifestation of guru and guru is the manifestation of Paramatma.

 

Katha Upanisad says:

 

 

<CENTER>

nayam atma pravacanena labhyo

na medhaya na bahuna srutena

yam evaisa vrnute tena labyas

tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam

 

</CENTER>The Supreme Self can never be known by any amount of arguments, reasoning, intelligence, or by much hearing. To those whom He chooses, however, He may reveal His personal form.(Katha Upanisad 1.2.23)

 

--------------

 

So which form of KRSNA do you want to appear before your very eyes and ears?

 

Because actually you are not the seer of Guru. Guru is the seer of you.

 

Therefore allow yourself to be seen by Guru who is a manifestation of Caitya-guru who is in the heart as Supersoul.

 

All you can really do in this world to get this merciful form of KRSNA as Sri Guru to reveal Himself is to desire correctly and then(And only then) KRSNA in the form of Guru, Sri Guru will reveal Himself according to your adhikara, your spiritual eligibility: to realize the living expansion of Krsna in the form of Sri Guru.

[Guest guest]

 

Paramatma is the manifestation of guru and guru is the manifestation of Paramatma.

 

Katha Upanisad says:

 

 

<CENTER>

nayam atma pravacanena labhyo

na medhaya na bahuna srutena

yam evaisa vrnute tena labyas

tasyaisa atma vivrnute tanum svam

 

</CENTER>The Supreme Self can never be known by any amount of arguments, reasoning, intelligence, or by much hearing. To those whom He chooses, however, He may reveal His personal form.(Katha Upanisad 1.2.23)

 

--------------

 

So which form of KRSNA do you want to appear before your very eyes and ears?

 

Because actually you are not the seer of Guru. Guru is the seer of you.

 

Therefore allow yourself to be seen by Guru who is a manifestation of Caitya-guru who is in the heart as Supersoul.

 

All you can really do in this world to get this merciful form of KRSNA as Sri Guru to reveal Himself is to desire correctly and then(And only then) KRSNA in the form of Guru, Sri Guru will reveal Himself according to your adhikara, your spiritual eligibility: to realize the living expansion of Krsna in the form of Sri Guru.

 

The subject matter is formal diksa as far as I'm concerned. Defending illogical statements by claiming they are transcendental is a gambit any rascal can attempt.

If formal diksa is essential then external requirements(domain of the material) dictate internal disposition.(the domain of the spiritual) rather than the other way round.

I'm not so easily duped.

[krsna 3]

 

The subject matter is formal diksa as far as I'm concerned. Defending illogical statements by claiming they are transcendental is a gambit any rascal can attempt.

If formal diksa is essential then external requirements(domain of the material) dictate internal disposition.(the domain of the spiritual) rather than the other way round.

I'm not so easily duped.

 

Unless you cry for mercy of Sri Guru you will not get diksa, nor siksa ,nor KRSNA.

 

All you'll get is one big fat false ego who is thinking, "I'm not so easily duped."

 

Regardless of fire sacrifices, ritviks or ecclisiastical considerations the divine mercy of Sri Guru is required in order to get KRSNA.

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada also received such messages in his dreams, from his Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, as we see in this talk in Seattle, 1968 --

 

 

Srila Prabhupada: "Sometimes I was dreaming my spiritual master, that he's calling me, and I was following him. When my dream was over, I was thinking. I was little horrified. 'Oh, Guru Maharaja wants me to become sannyasi. How can I accept sannyasa?' At that time, I was feeling not very satisfaction that I have to give up my family and have to become a mendicant. At that time, it was a horrible feeling. Sometimes I was thinking, 'No, I cannot take sannyasa.' But again I saw the same dream. So in this way I was fortunate. My Guru Maharaja (Prabhupada begins to cry, choked voice) pulled me out from this material life."

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => His Divine Grace Bhaktiprajnana Kesava Maharaja's Disappearance Day Lecture, (Srila Prabhupada's Sannyasa Guru) -- Seattle, October 21, 1968

 

[Guest guest]

So I need a guru to confound logic and reason. Please pass the kool-aid.

Again the formal diksa point is being dodged. One can accept a siksa guru without formal initiation. It's done all the time.

Formal diksa is a religious rite merely. To obssess over it trivializes discipleship.

[krsna 3]

 

So I need a guru to confound logic and reason. Please pass the kool-aid.

Again the formal diksa point is being dodged. One can accept a siksa guru without formal initiation. It's done all the time.

Formal diksa is a religious rite merely. To obssess over it trivializes discipleship.

 

The Magic Of Diksa

— Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari

"There is truly some magic in the imparting of the mantra. This magic involves the sharing of the guru's experience of the mantra. It is an act of giving, motivated by nothing other than genuine compassion."

Q. Sastra says that there can be only one diksa guru, but there can be many siksa gurus; otherwise, they are essentially the same. My first question is why is the diksa guru limited to one, while siksa gurus can be many?

A. Rupa Goswami begins his delineation on the angas of sadhana bhakti thus:

gurpadasrayas tasmat krsna diksadi siksanam

1. Take shelter of the feet of the guru

2. Take initiation from him

3. Take siksa from him

So first we shall sit with the guru, hear from and observe him while he simultaneously observes us. Then diksa follows and is further supported by siksa. While the diksa and siksa gurus are one in purpose, the sastra tells us their function is different. The diksa guru imparts the mantra, within which is contained our relationship with Krsna in seed form. The siksa guru or gurus water that seed with relevant instructions.

In the classic case, the diksa guru is also the siksa guru and he plays the most prominent role in the spiritual life of the disciple. However, it is possible that a siksa guru other than the diksa guru may play the most prominent role in a disciple's spiritual life, especially if the siksa guru is more qualified than the diksa guru. The latter case is exemplified in the life of Thakura Bhaktivinoda wherein his siksa guru, Jagannatha dasa Babaji, played a more important role than did his diksa guru, Bipina Bihari Goswami.

The diksa guru is a manifestation of Madana-mohana vigraha in the sense that he gives sambandha-jnana in the form of diksa, over which the deity of Sri Madana-mohana presides. The sambandha-jnana is one. It involves the conceptual orientation to the Gaudiya Vaisnava metaphysical worldview and includes the imparting of the diksa mantra. Part of that worldview is knowledge of one's relationship with Krsna. Again, this is present in the mantra. Thus imparting the mantra is likened to the planting of a seed. The seed is singular, and there is no need to plant it twice.

Still, the seed needs to be cultivated and thus there is the need for siksa. The siksa guru is a manifestation of Govindadeva, the presiding deity of abhidheya-jnana, or the knowledge pertaining to the cultivation of the seed. While sambandha-jnana involves a conceptual orientation, abhidheya-jnana involves that which naturally follows from that orientation: the subsequent activity, which in this case is bhakti.

In one sense the classic examples of these two manifestations of guru in our tradition are Sri Sanatana and Rupa Goswamis. Sanatana Goswami has written Brhat-bhagavatamrta, a conceptual orientation to the world of Gaudiya Vaisnavism. It is a survey of the interior landscape that orients us to the world of spiritual possibility in consideration of our present position. Rupa Goswami, on the other hand, has written Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, which delineates the nature of bhakti, or that activity that naturally follows from the sambandha-jnana.

The sambandha is static, whereas the abhideya is dynamic. For example, what the world is, what the jiva is, what God is, and how they are related does not change. This is sambandha-jnana. How to cultivate bhakti, while one in principle, varies with regard to details.

The two gurus are one in the sense that they fully represent Krsna.

Madana-mohana and Govindaji are one. The two gurus differ, however, with regard to their function. Again, the function of the diksa guru is singular. He gives the mantra. The function of the siksa guru, on the other hand, is plural; he gives instructions. The siksa guru waters the singular seed and more than one siksa guru can perform this function.

Of course, one could legitimately ask, "Is not the imparting of instructions on sambandha-jnana also a form of siksa?" The answer is obviously "yes," which, while extending the meaning of siksa to include such instructions, restricts the meaning of diksa to the actual imparting of the mantra, which is no small thing. Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami describes the imparting of the mantra thus "Just as in a homeopathic globule the outer figure cannot show what medicine is there, so it is with sound--the name Krsna. The one who delivers this, his will is there within. So Krsna, from the mouth of a sadhu, and the Krsna from the mouth of an ordinary person are not one and the same. What the idea behind this sound is, from where it comes, its origin, is it in Vaikuntha, in Goloka, in what rasa, and so on? Gradually the sound will take you there, to that place. The sound, Vaikuntha nama grhanam, the name, must come from the infinite world not any mundane origin."

Q. Is diksa and the ceremony surrounding it merely a formality?

A. In one sense diksa is the formalization of the relationship between guru and disciple that recognizes something that has already taken place, just as marriage formalizes a relationship already in progress. However, within the formal ceremony something of substance takes place: vows on the part of the disciple and the transmission of the mantra on the part of the guru.

While the ceremony may be a formality, the imparting of the mantra is not.

This is the substance. The extent to which this act is substantial is dependent on the realization of the guru and the surrender of the disciple.

In the same way that the power of one's siksa is dependent on the extent to which one has realized the siksa one gives, similarly the power of diksa depends on the diksa guru's own realization of the mantra he imparts.

For example, if a person has been to India, he can speak about India in ways that will be far more compelling than that which we can read in the travel brochure. His experience is conveyed through his speech. Not only does he have personal examples and insights that only one who has experienced the place would be able to relate, but the very quality of his speech, backed by his experience, is superior to that of one who has only theoretical knowledge.

Srila Sridhara Deva Goswami speaks of the transfer of the guru's spiritual experience through the mantra in this way: "Externally we cannot recognize what potency is there. It cannot be detected. What is that? Only the man (guru) who gives it--his realization--is the potency within the sound."

Therefore, giving diksa requires realization, brahma nistham. Furthermore, diksa also requires fertile soil, and thus it is incumbent on the guru to cultivate the heart of the disciple before imparting the mantra. It is to be given to the faithful soul, not anyone and everyone.

Sri Caitanyadeva told Sanatana Goswami that initiation involves full surrender to be complete, at which time the disciple becomes one with Krsna, diksa kale kare tare atma samarpana. He realizes, that is, his qualitative oneness with God, sei kale krsna kare tare atma sama. At that time, the disciple's sadhaka-deha becomes spiritualized, sei deha kara tare cidanandamaya, and continuing to serve in that body, he gains insight into his internal spiritual body in which he engages in Krsna bhajana, aprakrta dehe tanra carana bhajaya. Thus the process of diksa takes time to complete, and it is completed when the disciple realizes sambandha-jnana, clearing his path to bhajana in the stage of asakti. Then the disciple enters bhava-bhakti wherein the insight gained in sadhana-bhakti is further cultivated--the process of churning bhava into prema. Of course, all of this could happen at the very moment that the mantra is imparted as in the case of some of the eternal associates of Mahaprabhu, but for us it will take time.

Q. Are doubts cleared by diksa in some magical way or is the clearing of doubts dependent on siksa more than the mere act of initiation?

A. Relevant siksa follows diksa and thus doubts are cleared. But doubts are cleared more completely by experience than by siksa itself. This is what we want, tangible spiritual experience resulting from applying the siksa we receive to our spiritual practice.

Spiritual practice (sadhana) in and of itself is not a purely rational act.

While it is reasonable to suggest that one engage in spiritual practice, the act itself is transrational. Thus there is truly some magic in it as well as in the imparting of the mantra.

This magic surrounding the imparting of the mantra involves the invisible sharing of the guru's experience of the mantra. It is an act of giving, an act of love motivated by nothing other than genuine compassion, karunayaha purana ghuyam. It is not a business. Compassion is the motive behind the giving of the mantra, and while it may be reasonable to show compassion, compassionate action itself is not a function of the intellect.

There is also magic in the way the mantra works. What we learn from siksa helps us to sincerely apply ourselves in the practice of chanting the mantra. Through sraddha (faith), saranagati (surrender), and mantra dhyana (meditation) performed in the spirit of giving and self-sacrifice leading to the self-forgetfulness of love (svaha), the mantra magically reveals all that is contained within it. If you love something enough, it will reveal all of its secrets.

Even in one's material experience, the act of giving is mystically rewarding. When we give we get, yet that which we get we cannot hold up to show another or adequately describe. The fact that we get something when giving is apparent by our contentment and the enthusiasm through which we try to relate our experience. However, reason does not suggest that by giving one will get; this is the magic of life. The world turns on svaha.

Receiving the mantra means to be given a second birth. Just outside my window in the rafters a bird has given birth to three chicks. Birds are called dwija in Sanskrit because they are born twice, once within the egg and a second time when the eggs hatch. Our material birth is like that of the chicks within the egg. In this birth our possibilities are extremely limited. But if we are fortunate to meet a genuine sadhu and receive a second birth from him in the form of diksa, our possibilities in life expand beyond anything we could imagine within the egg of our material birth. If we get a second birth, we can fly high in the sky of our spiritual prospect! From being a creature of the earth we can live in the sky. Such is the magic of diksa and siksa as well.

Q. In what spirit should one chant the diksa mantra?

A. The spirit (pracodayat) in which one should chant the mantra was expressed by Mahaprabhu thus when elaborating on the fifth verse of his Siksastakam: 'dasa' kari' vetana more deha prema-dhana, "Make me your servant, my salary the wealth of love of God." In other words, "Let me engage in divine service for its own sake and nothing more, and let that divine service increase without measure." Full investment in the bank of service with no thought of withdrawal finds one living grandly on the interest accrued. It is significant that Mahaprabhu made this statement while explaining his fifth sloka of Sikstakam. This fifth verse corresponds with the devotional stage of asakti, the final stage of sadhana-bhakti before one enters bhava-bhakti and the world of spiritual emotion proper.

Thus Mahaprabhu implies that the diksa mantra helps us within the realm of sadhana up to the stage of asakti and retires when one enters bhava-bhakti as a liberated soul. After liberation is attained, the holy name of Krsna received from Sri Guru comes to the foreground, as the eternally liberated name can only be chanted by a liberated soul.

Thus the Krsna mantra helps us to take advantage of Krsna nama, and Krsna nama takes us to Goloka. In Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Mahaprabhu says that his own guru instructed him like this, krsna mantra hoibe habe samsara-mocana, krsna nama haite pabe krsnera carana: "By chanting the Krsna mantra one will be freed from samsara. By chanting Krsna nama one will attain the feet of Krsna." There is also evidence for this in Brhad-bhagavatamrta, wherein Gopa Kumara desists from chanting his mantra after attaining liberation and goes on to attain Goloka by nama-sankirtana and lila-samaranam.

[Guest guest]

 

While the ceremony may be a formality, the imparting of the mantra is not.

 

The imparting of the mantra can be accomplished without the ritual.

I rest my case on religious narrowness and artificiality.

[Guruvani 0]

 

The imparting of the mantra can be accomplished without the ritual.

I rest my case on religious narrowness and artificiality.

 

In fact, Srila Prabhupada "imparts" the mantra in his books.

[krsna 3]

 

The imparting of the mantra can be accomplished without the ritual.

I rest my case on religious narrowness and artificiality.

 

690113LE.LA Lectures

...vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

[Guest guest]

 

690113LE.LA Lectures

...vani and vapu, and vapu means the physical body, and vani means the vibration. So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are acaryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye sila-dhir gurusu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Krsna, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye sila-dhir gurusu na... Gurusu means those who are acaryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the sastras. SO ALTHOUGH A PHYSICAL BODY IS NOT PRESENT, THE VIBRATION SHOULD BE ACCEPTED AS THE PRESENCE OF THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, VIBRATION. WHAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, THAT IS LIVING.

Diksa as a spiritual event, without the need for a material presence (vapu) is NOT the formal religious diksa that I claim is unnecessary.

[krsna 3]

 

Diksa as a spiritual event, without the need for a material presence (vapu) is NOT the formal religious diksa that I claim is unnecessary.

 

Taking shelter of Sri Guru is an absolute must. Siksa or diksa is immaterial. Guru is a manifestation of KRSNA.

 

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Ādi 1.44

 

yadyapi āmāra guru — caitanyera dāsa

tathāpi jāniye āmi tāńhāra prakāśa

 

SYNONYMS

yadyapi — even though; āmāra — my; guru — spiritual master; caitanyera — of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu; dāsa — the servitor; tathāpi — still; jāniye — know; āmi — I; tāńhāra — of the Lord; prakāśa — direct manifestation.

 

 

TRANSLATION

Although I know that my spiritual master is a servitor of Śrī Caitanya, I know Him also as a plenary manifestation of the Lord.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami clearly says here that his spiritual master is a plenary manifestation of Sri Chaitanya. ( prakāśa — direct manifestation.)

 

That of course is indicating Lord Nityananda.

[krsna 3]

Elevation to KRSNA 4

 

 

There are two conceptions of presence--the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary, whereas the vibrational conception is eternal. When we enjoy or relish the vibration of Krsna's teachings in Bhagavad-gita, or when we chant Hare Krsna, we should know that by those vibrations He is immediately present.

 

He is absolute, and because of this His vibration is just as important as His physical presence. WHEN WE FEEL SEPARATION FROM KRSNA OR THE SPIRITUAL MASTER, WE SHOULD JUST TRY TO REMEMBER THEIR WORDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, AND WE WILL NO LONGER FEEL THAT SEPARATION. SUCH ASSOCIATION WITH KRSNA AND THE SPIRITUAL MASTER SHOULD BE ASSOCIATION BY VIBRATION, NOT PHYSICAL PRESENCE. THAT IS REAL ASSOCIATION.

 

We put so much stress on seeing, but when Krsna was present on this earth, so many people saw Him and did not realize that He is God; so what is the advantage of seeing?

 

By seeing Krsna, we will not understand Him, but by listening carefully to His teachings, we can come to the platform of understanding.

 

We can touch Krsna immediately by sound vibration; therefore we should give more stress to the sound vibration of Krsna and of the spiritual master--then we'll feel happy and won't feel separation.

[krsna 3]

"One can sit on the vyasasana only after being

 

conversant in all systems of philosophy so that

 

one can present fully the theistic views of the

 

Bhagavatam in defiance of all other systems."

(SB 1.1.7 purport)

[Murali_Mohan_das 0]

 

Krishnadas Kaviraja Goswami clearly says here that his spiritual master is a plenary manifestation of Sri Chaitanya. ( prakāśa — direct manifestation.)

 

That of course is indicating Lord Nityananda.

 

Isn't it said that, in general, Gurudev is representing Sri Nityananda?

[Guest guest]

 

Isn't it said that, in general, Gurudev is representing Sri Nityananda?

Yes, acaryas consider that caitanya-prakash refers to Nityananada Prabhu.

[krsna 3]

 

Yes, acaryas consider that caitanya-prakash refers to Nityananada Prabhu.

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja

Sri Guru and His Grace

 

<CENTER>Chapter Four </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

 

<CENTER><TT>The

Original

Guru</TT> </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER>

The original spiritual master is Nityananda Prabhu. He is the general representation of guru. In the spiritual world, he is the guru-tattva principle in the four primary mellows of devotion, excluding the conjugal mellow. In madhurya-rasa, Baladeva's representation is Ananga Manjari, the sister of Radharani.

The position of Nityananda is greater than that of Baladeva. Why? He is distributing prema, divine love. And what is prema ? It is higher than all other achievements. If one can give divine love, then all others must be subordinate to him. If Krsna is subordinate to Mahaprabhu, then of course, Balarama is subordinate to Nityananda. They are similar, but when magnanimity is added, Balarama becomes Nityananda. That Balarama who can distribute divine love, who can perforrn that higher function has come here as Nityananda. Our foundation must be solid and proper. Then the structure should be erected. Otherwise the whole thing will go down (heno nitai vine bhai radha krsna paite nai ) . We can get a solid foundation from Nityananda Prabhu.

One day Nityananda Prabhu came to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's house in Mayapura. Mahaprabhu's mother, Saci devi, and Visnupriya devi, his wife, were also there, as well as other devotees. Suddenly, Nityananda arrived, quite naked.

Mahaprabhu managed to give him some cloth. And perhaps He was concerned that the devotees might have some misconception about Nityananda Prabhu. So, to prevent this he asked Nityananda Prabhu for his kaupina, his loincloth. He tore it up and distributed it amongst the householders that were present, instructing them, "Keep a piece of his loincloth, as a kavaca, an amulet, and tie that with a thread to your arm or wear it around your neck. Please keep it with you. Then you will be able to achieve sense control very soon."

Nityananda Prabhu has control of his senses to the extreme degree; he does not know anything of this world. His vairagya, indifference to the world of mundane transaction, is of such a degree that he can appear naked amongst both male and female. So, the grace of Nityananda Prabhu will construct a firm foundation for us. If there is a firm foundation, then we may build a great structure over it. If we have faith in Nityananda, then that faith can bear any amount of weight. It won't betray us.

So, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada has laid stress amongst the Westerners on devotion to Nityananda. First, we must get His mercy. And then, afterwards, we can get the mercy of Radha-Krsna. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu means Radha-Krsna (sri krsna caitanya radha-krsna nahe anya ). First achieve the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu, and then Gauranga Mahaprabhu, and then Sri Radha Govinda. In these three stages, we must raise ourselves up.

 

[krsna 3]

Devotee: How does one attain the mercy of Lord Nityananda?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: One who finds more inclination to serve Gauranga and his dhama, his transcendental land, and his servants can get the mercy of Nityananda Prabhu. Nityananda is very much kind to one who has some special tendency towards Gaura lila.

 

"Take the Name of Gauranga"

 

Nityananda Prabhu walked from door to door in Bengal, saying, "Take the name of Gauranga! I'll become your servant. You can purchase me if you only take the name of Gauranga. I'll be sold to you without any price or condition." That was his temperament. When Mahaprabhu was in Puri, he sent Nityananda Prabhu to Bengal. At that time, he said, "Without you I don't find anyone who can spread the holy name of Krsna, or devotional service to Krsna, in Bengal. They are more engaged in the tantric method and the smrti. They make too much of these trifling things. They are puffed up, thinking that they have finished all knowledge. So, Bengal is a very hard field for preaching. Without you, no one will be able to awaken the masses. Separate yourself from the higher castes and approach the masses with the holy name of Krsna. You are the fittest person for this work."

Nityananda Prabhu went to Bengal, but without trying to preach the glories of the holy name of Krsna, Nityananda began to preach the name of Gauranga. Nityananda Prabhu found that there is some danger of thinking that Krsna's pastimes are very much akin to the mundane debauchery, lying, and stealing of a degraded soul. Krsna's pastimes are of a highly confidential nature. It is very difficult for the masses to understand the purity of krsna-lila. The mass mind cannot accept krsna-lila as the highest attainment. So, Nityananda Prabhu found it would be difficult to preach krsna-li1a, but he found it would be easy to preach gaura-lila, where Krsna has come to distribute himself to the public with so much capital in his mind. Gauranga means a dynamo which wants to distribute Krsna, surchared with the most magnanimous, intensified, pity and kindness for the ordinary people, with the greatest affection even for the criminals. Nityananda Prabhu wanted to bring them in connection with Gauranga, for then krsna-lila would automatically be within their fist. So, he began to preach about Gauranga, not Radha-Krsna, as commanded by Mahaprabhu. So, Nityananda Prabhu says, bhaja gauranga kaha gauranga, laha gauranga nama, "Worship Gauranga, speak only of Gauranga, and chant the name of Gauranga."

There is another instance of the relationship between Krsna and Balarama and Gauranga and Nityananda, which is described in the Caitanya-bhagavata. Saci devi had a dream that Krsna and Balarama were sitting on a throne, and Nityananda was fighting with Balarama, "Come down from the throne. It is no longer Dvapara-yuga. The age of Kali has come and my master Gauranga must occupy your position on this throne. You come down!" Balaram began giving some opposition. "No, no, why should we come down? We have been sitting on this throne for such a long time." Nityananda Prabhu began forcibly taking him down, and Balarama submitted slightly. Nityananda Prabhu said, "My master Gauranga wants to take the position now. The age for him has come." So Nityananda is very partial to Gauranga. He says, "Krsna is far off. My Lord is Gauranga. "

So, we must be very grateful to Nityananda Prabhu, for he is our guru. And guru's grace is so important that Raghunatha Dasa Goswaml says, "Radharani, I want your grace. Without you, I don't want Krsna separately. I never want Krsna without you." That should be the healthy attitude of a devote. This has been explained by

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, in his Gurvastakam :

 

<CENTER>yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto 'pi

dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri sandhyam

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam </CENTER>

" I bow down to the lotus feet of sri gurudeva. By his grace, we achieve the grace of Krsna; without his grace, we are lost. Therefore, we should always meditate on sri gurudeva, and pray for his mercy."

This is the position of sri guru, by whose grace we can get everything, we can get the grace of Krsna, and without whose grace, we have no other prospect. So, in this way, we must have reverence for he who has given us our first connection with Krsna consciousness.

 

Guru Is Not a Doll

 

But at the same time we offer reverence to gurudeva, we must not conceive that the, guru is a doll, a lifeless figure. Because we are familiar with a particular figure and accept that as our guru we should not become misled. The important thing is what he says, his instructions. That is attracting our inner hearts. I am not this body. I am the inquirer. That thing which is satisfying me, drawing the inquirer to the inquired--I must try to locate that thing in him. I must not rely on material calculation. I am not this body. Who am I, the disciple? Am I only this body, this figure, this color, this caste? Or am I this temperament, this scholarship and intellectualism? No. I am he who has come to seek. Who is the party within me, and who is the party in guru? We must be fully awake to that. What is the inner thing? I have come for that. We must be awake to our own interest.

There is the relative principle and the absolute principle. We shall have to eliminate the form, ignore the form; we shall always have to keep the spirit. Otherwise, we become form worshipers, idol worshipers.

 

Guru: More than Meets the Eye

 

It is said, of course, that the connection with the spiritual master is eternal (caksudana dilo yei, janme janme prabhu sei ). But we must not identify our guru with the appearance we perceive with our physical senses. Our inner identification of him will be clarified according to the growth of our vision. When our vision increases and takes shape from material to transcendental, his look will also change accordingly.

A man is sometimes known most externally, by his uniform, and then by his body, then by his mind, then by his intelligence. As much as our eye will develop to see things rightly, what we are seeing will also change its face. Krsna says, acaryam mam vijaniyan, "Ultimately it is I who am the acarya. " It is the function of divinity, and in different stages there may be different forms. Different acaryas may work at the same time. The knowledge, the ideal, is growing from subtle to gross. And the depth of the vision of the eye will disclose the different figures of the different acaryas. It will go in different rasas to the highest position, by a gradual process of realization. Otherwise our knowledge will be based on the material conception. And to force the material conception onto divinity is a crime, it is ignorance, it is erroneous.

We have to free ourselves from the snare of identifying reality with the physical form presented to our senses. The eyes deceive us; they cannot give us the proper form or color. The ears cannot give us the proper sound. The concrete reality is beyond the experience of our senses. So, then what is that thing? Because we are in such a low position, we can gradually go there to the inner world only with the help of our guru.

But how can we recognize our guru? Sometimes in the winter he wears a particular dress, and in the summer he wears another dress. If we attach so much importance to the external dress, then what should we do? Should we think that the dress is indispensible to the body? The guru may come to us in a particular body. Suppose the guru appears as a young man. When he has become an old man, and the young form has grown into another form, how are we to recognize him? How are we to differentiate? Again, in one birth, he may have come in a particular body, and another time, he may appear in a different body. The same guru may appear differently at different times. How are we to recognize him? From the external consideration we must go to the internal.

If I am devoid of flesh and blood, and I exist only in a subtle body, then I shall also find my guru there, in a subtle body. The demigods, gandharvas, and siddhas, the perfected beings in the heavenly planets, also have their gurus, but they do not have a material body, nor does their guru have a material body.

So, by eliminating the external conception, we have to enter into the internal, and that will be all-important to a progressive disciple. That does not mean that one should disregard the physical form of our guru. But the real importance is within. We must worship the remnants of the guru, his coat, his boot, his sandal. But that does not mean that his shoe is superior to his body; we must serve his person. In a similar way, if we are eager to do some physical service for him, if we want to massage his feet, but he does not desire that, and says, "No, no, no," then should we do that? Our internal obedience to him will be higher. In this way, we have to make progress from the gross to the subtle.

Who is guru? Where is he to be located? What is his ideal? What does he really want me to do? These things must not be dismissed from our ears. We must not give only formal adherence. We want the spiritual way. The spiritual man is going to the spiritual world to have the spiritual realization. It is all a spiritual transaction. And all conceptions of mundane, whether physical, mental, or intellectual, should be eliminated in our journey if we want to go to the inner world of substance.

 

Progress Means Elimination and Acceptance

 

This attitude will decide our real progress, our real design of life. Our fulfillment comes always from the inner side. If one can catch up that thread, then he can go and get things of that higher, spiritual quality. We may appreciate the beautiful figure, style, movement, and intellectual delivery of the spiritual master, and so many other things may be appreciable. But what should be the highest focal point of our realization? What should be our highest aim, for which we will eliminate everything else?

Progress means elimination and acceptance. And our spiritual life must always be a dynamic thing, otherwise we shall be dead. Progress means acceptance and elimination. The scientists also say this in their theory of natural selection, "survival of the fittest." Nature is selecting some and eliminating others. Life is dynamic; we are living in a dynamic world. Everywhere we find acceptance and elimination. That is progress. And our life must be progressive, not static.

To get the grace of Nityananda Prabhu, we should try as far as possible to study the character of Sri Gauranga Mahaprabhu, to serve him, to serve his dhama, and his devotees. That will easily help us attain the grace of Nityananda Prabhu. And there will always be so many practical dealings in our present stage, but we must always keep the highest ideal over our heads. With this ideal we shall be able to make progress. Our ideal, our highest model-- that is our all in all in life. To be acquainted with the conception of the highest ideal and to be on the path of realization of that goal is the greatest wealth in one's life.

Srila Raghunatha Dasa Goswami prays, "I only aspire after one thing. I cherish the hope that one day I may be welcomed into the plane where Radhika and Madhava are in their glory, sitting and playing." That should be our prospect. This is found in Raghunatha Dasa Goswami's prayer to his guru. He says:

 

<CENTER>nama-srestham manum api saci-putram atra svarupam

rupam tasyagrajam uru-purim mathurim gostavatim

radha-kundam giri-varam aho radhika-madhavasam

prapto yasya prathita-krpaya sri gurum tam nato 'smi </CENTER>

"I am fully indebted to sri gurudeva. Why? He has given me so many things. He has given me the highest conception of the holy name of Krsna, the highest form of sound which contains the highest form of thought, aspiration, ideal, everything. And next he has given me the mantra. " The name is there within the mantra. Without the name, the mantra is nothing. If the name of Krsna is withdrawn and replaced with another name, the mantra will give the opposite result. The name of Krsna is all in all. And within the mantra, the name is couched in a particular way as a sort of prayer.

And then he says, "He has given me the service of that great saviour, the son of Mother Saci, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is like a golden mountain standing to show the direction of krsna-lila. And gurudeva has brought me to the lotus feet of Mahaprabhu's most favorite personal assistant, Svarupa Damodara, who is the representation of Lalita devi, the most favorite friend of Radhika .

"Then he has brought me in connection with Sri Rupa, who was ordered to distribute the highest kinds of devotional love, rasa. " Vaidhi bhakti, the worship of the Lord in awe and reverence, is of a lower order. But raganuga-bhakti, spontaneous love, the hearts innermost dealings, was distributed through Srila Rupa Goswami. Mahaprabhu considered Sri Rupa the best to deal with raganuga-bhakti.

Dasa Goswami says, "Then, by his grace, I have achieved the association of Srila Sanatana Goswami, who adjusts our position in relation to raganuga-bhakti.

He explains the path of vaidhi-bhakti, and gives us sambandha-jnana : the knowledge of what is what, a proper acquaintance with the environment." Then he says, "Gurudeva has given me Mathura Mandala, where Radha and Govinda have their pastimes; where the forest, the hills, every creeper, shrub, and grain of sand, everyone is bearing the acquaintance of Radha-Krsna lila, and wherever I shall cast my glance they will help me in my remembrance of Radha and Govinda. I have received all these things from my gurudeva : Vrndavana, where the cows and the milkmen have their village constructed. I am becoming acquainted with their association, their nature, and their feelings of love for Krsna.

"By the grace of gurudeva, I have become acquainted with Radha-kunda, the favorite place of Radha and Govinda for their pastimes, and this great Govardhana. And lastly he has given me the hope that one day I can get the service of Sri Sri Radhika and Madhava. I have been given all these assurances by my gurudeva, so I bow my head with all my respects to his lotus feet."

So, if we are conscious of all these spiritual matters, then we can think that we have approached our gurudeva properly. What is our guru? What is his mission? It is filled with all these things. Devoid of that, what is our interest?

[krsna 3]

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

Mr. O'Grady: The problem is to find this spiritual master.

 

Srila Prabhupada: That is not the problem. The problem is whether you are sincere. You have problems, but God is within your heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam. God is not far away. If you are sincere, God sends you a spiritual master. Therefore God is also called caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. God helps from within and from without.

 

Everything is thus described in the Bhagavad-gita. This material body is like a machine, but within the heart is the soul, and with the soul is the Supersoul, Krsna, who gives directions. The Lord says, "You wanted to do this; now here is the chance. Go and do it." If you are sincere, you say, "Now, God, I want You." Then He will give you directions. "Yes, now you come and get Me like this." This is His kindness.

 

However, if we want something else, that is all right. We can have it. God is very kind. When I want something, He is in my heart directing me and telling me how to have it. So why should He not give directions on how to have a spiritual master? First of all we must again be eager to revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us a spiritual master.

 

From Science of Self-Realisation

[Guest guest]

The discussion about guru always turns around the same misunderstanding - about the meaning of 'accepting a guru'.

The diksa/siksa dichotomy has to be clarified. Inevitably somebody says that diksa in absolutely necessary and the intermal/external (formal) diksa needs clarification.

"Krsna has sent me Prabhupada" one person will say "and nobody else".

Then the vapuvadis step in and talk about a 'living guru' as though death were spiritually relevant - and around we go.

The living guru obsession feeds the sectarian religious impulse. It draws in the boundaries of institution and math - to control and limit. The conditions for corruption and infighting set up beautifully. History speaks for itself.

[krsna 3]

Physical presence is immaterial. Presence of the transcendental sound received from the Spiritual Master should be the guidance of life. That will make our spiritual life successful. If you feel very strongly about my absence you may place my pictures on my sitting places and this will be source of inspiration for you.

(Letter to Brahmananda and other students, 19/1/67)

But always remember that I am always with you. As you are always thinking of me, I am always thinking of you also. Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection.

(Letter to Gaurasundara, 13/11/69)

So we should associate by vibration, and not by the physical presence. That is real association.

(Lectures SB, 68/08/18)

There are two conceptions, the physical conception and the vibrational conception. The physical conception is temporary. The vibrational conception is eternal.[...] When we feel separation from Krsna or the Spirirual Master, we should just try to remember their words or instructions, and we will no longer feel that separation. Such association with Krsna and the Spiritual Master should be association by vibration not physical presence. That is real association.

(Elevation to Krsna Consciousness,(BBT 1973), Page 57)

Although according to material vision His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarsavati Thakura Prabhupada passed away from this material world on the last day of December 1936, I still consider his Divine Grace to be always present with me by his vani, his words. There are two ways of association - by vani and by vapuh. Vani means words and vapuh means physical presence. Physical presence is sometimes appreciable and sometimes not, but Vani continues to exist eternally. Therefore, one must take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

(CC, Antya 5 Conclusion)

Therefore we should take advantage of the Vani, not the physical presence.

(Letter to Suci Devi Dasi, 4/11/75)

I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically present, as I am getting guidance from my Guru Maharaja.

(Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 14/7/77)

It is sometimes misunderstood that if one has to associate with persons engaged in devotional service, he will not be able to solve the economic problem. To answer this argument, it is described here that one has to associate with liberated persons not directly, physically, but by understanding, through philosophy and logic, the problems of life.

(SB 3:31:48)

I am always with you. Never mind if I am physically absent.

 

(Letter to Jayananda, 16/9/67)

 

 

 

Paramananda:

We're always feeling your presence very strongly, Srila Prabhupada, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We're always meditating on your instructions.

 

Srila Prabhupada:

Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.

 

(Room Conversation, Vrndavana, 6/10/77)

 

 

 

You write that you have desire to avail of my association again, but why do you forget that you are always in association with me? When you are helping my missionary activities I am always thinking of you, and you are always thinking of me . That is real association. Just like I am always thinking of my Guru Maharaja at every moment, although he is not physically present, and because I am trying to serve him to my best capacity, I am sure he is helping me by his spiritual blessings. So there are two kinds of association: physical and preceptorial. Physical association is not so important as preceptorial association.

(Letter to Govinda Dasi, 18/8/69)

 

 

 

As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krsna there, and following my instructions, reading the books, taking only Krsna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.

 

(Letter to Bala Krsna, 30/6/74)

 

 

 

'Anyone who has developed unflinching faith in the Lord and the Spiritual Master can understand the revealed scripture unfolding before him'. So continue your present aptitude and you will be successful in your spiritual progress. I am sure that even if I am not physically present before you, still you will be able to execute all spiritual duties in the matter of Krsna Consciousness, if you follow the above principles.

 

(Letter to Subala, 29/9/67)

 

 

 

So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.

(General lectures, 69/01/13)

 

 

 

Devotee: ...so sometimes the Spiritual Master is far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg Temple. He thinks 'How will the Spiritual Master be pleased?'

 

Srila Prabhupada: Just follow his order, Spiritual Master is along with you by his words. Just like my Spiritual Master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.

 

(SB Lectures, 71/08/18)

 

 

 

Just like I am working, so my Guru Maharaja is there, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. Physically he may not be, but in every action he is there. To serve master's word is more important than to serve physically.

(Room Conversation, Vrindavan, 2/5/77)

 

 

 

So that is called prakata, physically present. And there is another phrase, which is called aprakata, not physically present. But that does not mean, Krsna is dead or God is dead. That does not mean, prakata or aprakata, physically present or not present, it does not matter.

 

(Lectures SB 73/12/11)

 

 

 

So, spiritually, there is no question of separation, even physically we may be in far distant place.

 

(Letter to Syama Dasi, 30/08/68)

 

 

 

I went to your country for spreading this information of Krsna Consciousness and you are helping me in my mission, although I am not physically present there but spiritually I am always with you.

(Letter to Nandarani, Krsna Devi and Subala, 3/10/67)

 

 

 

We are not separated actually. There are two - Vani or Vapuh - so Vapu is physical presence and Vani is presence by the vibration, but they are all the same.

 

(Letter to Hamsadutta, 22/6/70)

 

 

 

So in the absence of physical presentation of the spiritual master, the Vani-seva is more important. My Spiritual Master Sarsavati Goswami, may appear to be physically not present, but still because I try to serve his instruction, I never feel separated from him.

 

(Letter to Karandhara, 22/8/70)

 

 

 

I also do not feel separation from my Guru Maharaja. When I am engaged in his service, his pictures give me sufficient strength. To serve master's word is more important than to serve him physically.

 

(Letter to Syamasundara, 19/7/70) :pray: :pray: