Is A Physically Present Spiritual Master Required?

[krsna 3]

 

Srila Prabhupada never mentioned any sub-branches of ISKCON.

ISKCON is ONE solitary branch.

 

ISKCON is supposed to have leaves, fruits and flowers - not more branches.

 

How will ISKCON flourish, grow and produce fruits of KRSNA Prema without regular, systematic and daily hearing of KRSNA-katha from the lips of a suddha-Vaisnava who can produce and manifest Sri KRSNA in sound (sabdha-brahma) by speaking Srimad Bhagavatam? :confused:

 

"KRSNA's darsana can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas, there is no other way."

 

The Upadesavali of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

[Guest guest]

Tremendous quote!

 

 

<font face="monotype corsiva" color="red" size=6> <B> "KRSNA's darsana can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas, there is no other way."</font></B>

[Guruvani 0]

 

 

"KRSNA's darsana can only be attained through the medium of the ear as one hears Hari-katha from pure Vaisnavas, there is no other way."

 

The Upadesavali of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada

 

so, I guess we all might as well throw away our bead bags, take down the deities and give up on Krishna consciousness because we don't have a pure devotee in our neighborhood to go loiter around.

 

 

JEEZ...... these absolute dictums have just neutralized the whole Sankirtan movement and relegated it to the dust bin.

 

Really, is it all or nothing?

 

Then why have so many people that have loitered around these sadhus for years blooped and went back to jobs and women?

 

I haven't see no magic from the sadhu loiterer cult.

 

The aren't more special than all the other devotees.

[krsna 3]

 

so, I guess we all might as well throw away our bead bags, take down the deities and give up on Krishna consciousness because we don't have a pure devotee in our neighborhood to go loiter around.

 

 

JEEZ...... these absolute dictums have just neutralized the whole Sankirtan movement and relegated it to the dust bin.

 

Really, is it all or nothing?

 

Then why have so many people that have loitered around these sadhus for years blooped and went back to jobs and women?

 

I haven't see no magic from the sadhu loiterer cult.

 

The aren't more special than all the other devotees.

 

Sure, there are many sadhu loiter cults to be had in Kali-yuga. The majority are in fact guru-opies who are like mosquitoes who bite their guru.

 

But that is not to say that the process of attaining KRSNA Conciousness by hearing from the Vaisnava is in any way invalidated by zillions of fraudsters.

 

 

 

"But Putana does not at all like to receive her reward in only form which involves the total destruction of her wrong personality. King Kamsa also does not like to lose the services of the most trusted of his agents. The effective silencing of the whole race of pseudo-teachers of religion is the first clear indication of the appearance of the Absolute on the mundane plane. The bona-fide teacher of the Absolute, heralds the Advent of Krishna by his uncompromising campaign against the pseudo-teachers of religion."

 

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada

[muralidhar_das 0]

Srila Govinda Maharaj said "If you are sincere you will not be cheated".

 

If you get cheated, look into youself to see why you made the choice to follow a false guru.

[krsna 3]

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj said "If you are sincere you will not be cheated".

 

If you get cheated, look into youself to see why you made the choice to follow a false guru.

 

If you want a REAL Guru, become a REAL Disciple. KRSNA Never cheats His sincere Devotee. Deserve than desire. What is in your heart will come out; if your are a con man, you will get conned. Cheaters and cheated. An un-bona-fide guru deserves and un-bona-fide disciple. They come together to keep each other stupid.

 

Why should KRSNA give you a bona-fide Guru if you are an un-bonafide disciple, who is desiring, for example, name and fame?

[Guest guest]

One must consider what is meant by un-bonafide. There are actually some bonafide disciples who may seem less than bonafide because of a misunderstanding how the foru typoes come to submit to krsna.

 

Dhruva maharaja had strong material desires, he was in need of status, and he worked very hard in such frustration. Those who are frustrated, lacking money, having misery, these are two types who are, indeed, eligible, and can be considered bonafide, albeit kanistha adhikari levels (meaning full of desire, offensive, intolerant, etc). Added to that are those whose desires are for knowledge, those very inquisitive as to the origin of life, the status of the self, etc. Then there are those who are wise (Sophia).

 

Dhruva got Krsna to come to him, then disappear, but he sent Sri Narada Muni, (inspired him, for those following the other topic). Narada inspired Dhruva to become wise, so his original kanistha status was evolved to the extent that he is king of a Vaikuntha Planet (the full spiritual world) that is visible to the naked eye. Point is, we accept those in any of the four statuses (Need of money, need to end misery, need to fulfill inquiry, and pure wisdom) as devotees eligible to enter the reciprocal, inspired, guru / disciple relationship.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[krsna 3]

 

One must consider what is meant by un-bonafide. There are actually some bonafide disciples who may seem less than bonafide because of a misunderstanding how the foru typoes come to submit to krsna.

 

Dhruva maharaja had strong material desires, he was in need of status, and he worked very hard in such frustration. Those who are frustrated, lacking money, having misery, these are two types who are, indeed, eligible, and can be considered bonafide, albeit kanistha adhikari levels (meaning full of desire, offensive, intolerant, etc). Added to that are those whose desires are for knowledge, those very inquisitive as to the origin of life, the status of the self, etc. Then there are those who are wise (Sophia).

 

Dhruva got Krsna to come to him, then disappear, but he sent Sri Narada Muni, (inspired him, for those following the other topic). Narada inspired Dhruva to become wise, so his original kanistha status was evolved to the extent that he is king of a Vaikuntha Planet (the full spiritual world) that is visible to the naked eye. Point is, we accept those in any of the four statuses (Need of money, need to end misery, need to fulfill inquiry, and pure wisdom) as devotees eligible to enter the reciprocal, inspired, guru / disciple relationship.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

 

 

DHruva Maharaja went to a forest in search of God at the tender age of five. Pleased by his devotion, Lord Sri KRSNA appeared to him thus inspired him and blessed him with a long successful reign as a king, and later as the Pole Star.

 

 

Narada inspired Dhruva to become wise, so his original kanistha status was evolved to the extent that he is king of a Vaikuntha Planet (the full spiritual world) that is visible to the naked eye.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Srila Govinda Maharaj said "If you are sincere you will not be cheated".

 

If you get cheated, look into youself to see why you made the choice to follow a false guru.

 

Sridhara Maharaja said that if your guru falls down that you should wait some time to see if he rectifies himself.

 

If the guru was sincere when he gave diksha then Krishna will never let a sincere devotee go without blessings.

 

Krishna can make up for the shortcomings of a lesser diksha guru by sending you the good siksha guru to give you the fuller support or deeper understanding.

 

So, if the guru falls, then wait some time and see if maybe he comes back to the proper devotional life.

 

That was the instruction of Sridhar Maharaja.

He never said that one was cheated if he had a lower guru, because he explained that the siksha guru could fill in what was missing.

[krsna 3]

 

Sridhara Maharaja said that if your guru falls down that you should wait some time to see if he rectifies himself.

 

If the guru was sincere when he gave diksha then Krishna will never let a sincere devotee go without blessings.

 

Krishna can make up for the shortcomings of a lesser diksha guru by sending you the good siksha guru to give you the fuller support or deeper understanding.

 

So, if the guru falls, then wait some time and see if maybe he comes back to the proper devotional life.

 

That was the instruction of Sridhar Maharaja.

He never said that one was cheated if he had a lower guru, because he explained that the siksha guru could fill in what was missing.

 

"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore, follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and beware of self-interested people after personal aggrandisement who deviate others from the actual path."

Srila Prabhupada [b.G. 4.42]

[Guruvani 0]

 

"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord as they were imparted millions of years ago to the sun-god, from whom the instructions of Bhagavad-gita have come down to the earthly kingdom. One should, therefore, follow the path of Bhagavad-gita as it is expressed in the Gita itself and beware of self-interested people after personal aggrandisement who deviate others from the actual path."

Srila Prabhupada [b.G. 4.42]

well, I don't know that any fallen ISKCON guru ever preached anything against the Bhagavad-gita.

 

we might want to remember this verse too..

 

 

<center>Chapter 9. The Most Confidential Knowledge</center>

 

TEXT 30

 

 

api cet su-duracaro

bhajate mam ananya-bhak

sadhur eva sa mantavyah

samyag vyavasito hi sah

 

 

SYNONYMS

 

api--in spite of; cet--although; su-duracarah--one committing the most abominable actions; bhajate--engaged in devotional service; mam--unto Me; ananya-bhak--without deviation; sadhuh--saint; eva--certainly; sah--he; mantavyah--to be considered; samyak--completely; vyavasitah--situated; hi--certainly; sah--he.

 

TRANSLATION

 

Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated.

As Sridhar Maharaja pointed out, that unless and until you learn forgiveness, you yourself are not a saintly person.

 

So, if you can't forgive a guru who falls, then you are not a saintly person.

 

It is also an offense to offend a fallen devotee, because actually in his heart he is really a devotee of Krishna.

 

Even Bhavananda has come back to ISKCON to face all the shame and disgrace because being near the devotees was important to him than staying away and avoiding his shame.

 

Forgiveness.............. it is not an option..... it is mandatory.

 

otherwise, you can never become a saintly person.

[krsna 3]

 

well, I don't know that any fallen ISKCON guru ever preached anything against the Bhagavad-gita.

 

we might want to remember this verse too..

 

 

As Sridhar Maharaja pointed out, that unless and until you learn forgiveness, you yourself are not a saintly person.

 

So, if you can't forgive a guru who falls, then you are not a saintly person.

 

It is also an offense to offend a fallen devotee, because actually in his heart he is really a devotee of Krishna.

 

Even Bhavananda has come back to ISKCON to face all the shame and disgrace because being near the devotees was important to him than staying away and avoiding his shame.

 

Forgiveness.............. it is not an option..... it is mandatory.

 

otherwise, you can never become a saintly person.

 

Listen here with your headphones but don't let the tought police catch you this time:

 

http://www.archive.org/download/bhakti-rakshaka-sridhara/18_Forgiveness---Your_Choice_in_Life.mp3

[Guruvani 0]

 

Listen here with your headphones but don't let the tought police catch you this time:

 

http://www.archive.org/download/bhakti-rakshaka-sridhara/18_Forgiveness---Your_Choice_in_Life.mp3

 

sweet.....

anyone who thinks that nectar doesn't come through audio recordings is just very unfortunate as far as I can see.

 

I didn't hear a tape player.

I heard Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

[stonehearted 0]

Very sweet. That archive is a real treasure. Thanks.

[Guest guest]

There's a lot of excuses formulated about ISKCON scandals that blame the disciple, the bhakta, those who have been victimized by whatever abominable activity.

 

The .... wasn't sincere. Fill in the blank.

A child is raped. A guru falls down (a spiritual rape that is no less devestating)

A bhakta is verbally or physically abused.

All of it explained away as the shared fault of the vicitim.

 

I left without getting initiated to a bogus guru. I am better off.

I didn't make the mistake. Still there are those who criticize my leaving as another sign of insincerity.

What is insincere is that judgment since it gives carte blanche to any kind of abuse without accountability on the part of the responsible parties.

I don't blame those innocent sincere disciples of Rameswara who were duped by the Zonal Acarya system. I can't bring myself to be that cruel.

[krsna 3]

 

There's a lot of excuses formulated about ISKCON scandals that blame the disciple, the bhakta, those who have been victimized by whatever abominable activity.

 

The .... wasn't sincere. Fill in the blank.

A child is raped. A guru falls down (a spiritual rape that is no less devestating)

A bhakta is verbally or physically abused.

All of it explained away as the shared fault of the vicitim.

 

I left without getting initiated to a bogus guru. I am better off.

I didn't make the mistake. Still there are those who criticize my leaving as another sign of insincerity.

What is insincere is that judgment since it gives carte blanche to any kind of abuse without accountability on the part of the responsible parties.

I don't blame those innocent sincere disciples of Rameswara who were duped by the Zonal Acarya system. I can't bring myself to be that cruel.

 

"It is not this guru business. It is not guru business. Guru must transfer his qualities to the student. How it is there that a man makes one's person as disciple and he remains a sudra? What is this nonsense?"

(Srila Prabhupada lecture on Bg. 9.2)

"These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell."

(Bg. 16.19-20).

[Guest guest]

Krsna Das prabhu ... you are providing some real gems here, smashing all the bogus arguments presented by the ritviks folks. Yet another great post!

 

 

<font face="monotype corsiva" color="red" size=7><B>If you want a REAL Guru, become a REAL Disciple. KRSNA Never cheats His sincere Devotee. Deserve than desire. What is in your heart will come out; if your are a con man, you will get conned. Cheaters and cheated. An un-bona-fide guru deserves and un-bona-fide disciple. They come together to keep each other stupid.

 

Why should KRSNA give you a bona-fide Guru if you are an un-bonafide disciple, who is desiring, for example, name and fame?</font></B>

[Guruvani 0]

 

Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 22.107

 

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema 'sādhya' kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

 

SYNONYMS

nitya-siddha — eternally established; kṛṣṇa-prema — love of Kṛṣṇa; sādhya — to be gained; kabhu — at any time; naya — not; śravaṇa-ādi — by hearing, etc.; śuddha — purified; citte — in the heart; karaye udaya — awakens.

 

TRANSLATION

"Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.

 

[Guest guest]

So a devotee who can't find a qualified diksa guru is insincere - or is that qualified gurus don't grow on ISKCON branches?

[krsna 3]

Hearing from the lips of a suddha-bhakta Vaisnava is an absolute must; for he alone can manifest Krsna's internal spiritual pleasure-giving potency(hladhini-shakti) in the hearts of sincere receptive souls by lending submissive aural reception to the tansendental KRSNA-katha.

[Guest guest]

 

Hearing from the lips of a suddha-bhakta Vaisnava is an absolute must; for he alone can manifest Krsna's internal spiritual pleasure-giving potency(hladhini-shakti) in the hearts of sincere receptive souls by lending submissive aural reception to the tansendental KRSNA-katha.

 

Instructions live in the ether. They are sound vibrations of the pure devotees. That's what lips are for - and tape recorders and books. Otherwise book sankirtan immediately became useless on Prabhpada's samadhi.

[Guruvani 0]

why does everybody always get stuck on the diksha guru and minimize the siksha guru?

 

Srila Prabhupada said that the siksha gurus comes first and that generally the siksha guru becomes the diksha guru later on.

 

So, it seems like that the first thing an aspiring newcomer would want to do is find a siksha guru who can answer all his questions.

 

Then, later, the siksha guru might also become the diksha guru.

 

That is the way of the Bhagavat marga.

 

In Vaidika culture diksha comes first and then the student is taught the Vedas and the logic shastra called Nyaya.

 

But, in Vaishnavism the bhagavat marga is prominent with panacharatrika-vidhi playing the supporting role.

 

So, first of all is most importat to get education in Krishna consciousness.

First, the candidate must learn Bhagavad-gita As It Is from the acharya, then go on to Srimad Bhagavatam etc.

 

But, the cult of diksha guru comes before siksha guru is a big cheater cult and is not in line with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

These cheater gurus don't want you to get good siksha first, because then you will be smart enough to avoid the cheater gurus. So, these cheater gurus they are all about diksha, to get the disciple under his control and then most of the time these diksha gurus don't even give the disciple proper siksha to help them advance in Krishna consciousness.

 

 

 

So, nobody should worry about diksha until he has proper foundation in Krishna consciousness teachings and the shastra.

 

Then, when one is very informed about the true qualities of the guru, then he can committ to a diksha guru.

 

Diksha guru is not supreme. Diskha guru comes after one find the proper siksha guru. Many times the siksha guru is predominant in the faith of a devotee if the devotee is hasty in taking diksha.

 

If the devotee is patient and wise, then he can accept his siksha guru to then become diksha guru and everything will have the best order.

 

Sadhus and siksha gurus are important.

Then, when one is very sure of his decision he can accept diksha guru.

 

But, diksha in the Bhagavat marga is not formal. It is initiation through Srimad Bhagavatam as Sukadeva was initiated that way. The whole Bhagavat marga is based on Sukadeva Goswami and his Bhagavat diksha though spiritual knowledge.

 

In the Bhagavat Marga as shown by Sukadeva, even formal Pancaratrika diksha is not absolutely necessary.

 

Students of the Bhagavat are liberated souls already.

They are beyond formal diksha.

 

Mahaprabhu said even a sudra who knows the Science of Krishna consciosness can be a guru.

So, the sudra does not have diksha or sacred thread, but still he can be guru if he knows Krishna-tattva.

 

Ramananda Raya was one such sudra.

The topmost guru was sudra.

[Guruvani 0]

Srila Prabhupada:

 

 

The English maxim that God helps those who help themselves is also applicable in the transcendental realm. There are many instances in the revealed scriptures of the Personality of Godhead's acting as the spiritual master from within.

[krsna 3]

 

why does everybody always get stuck on the diksha guru and minimize the siksha guru?

 

Srila Prabhupada said that the siksha gurus comes first and that generally the siksha guru becomes the diksha guru later on.

 

So, it seems like that the first thing an aspiring newcomer would want to do is find a siksha guru who can answer all his questions.

 

Then, later, the siksha guru might also become the diksha guru.

 

That is the way of the Bhagavat marga.

 

In Vaidika culture diksha comes first and then the student is taught the Vedas and the logic shastra called Nyaya.

 

But, in Vaishnavism the bhagavat marga is prominent with panacharatrika-vidhi playing the supporting role.

 

So, first of all is most importat to get education in Krishna consciousness.

First, the candidate must learn Bhagavad-gita As It Is from the acharya, then go on to Srimad Bhagavatam etc.

 

But, the cult of diksha guru comes before siksha guru is a big cheater cult and is not in line with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

These cheater gurus don't want you to get good siksha first, because then you will be smart enough to avoid the cheater gurus. So, these cheater gurus they are all about diksha, to get the disciple under his control and then most of the time these diksha gurus don't even give the disciple proper siksha to help them advance in Krishna consciousness.

 

 

 

So, nobody should worry about diksha until he has proper foundation in Krishna consciousness teachings and the shastra.

 

Then, when one is very informed about the true qualities of the guru, then he can committ to a diksha guru.

 

Diksha guru is not supreme. Diskha guru comes after one find the proper siksha guru. Many times the siksha guru is predominant in the faith of a devotee if the devotee is hasty in taking diksha.

 

If the devotee is patient and wise, then he can accept his siksha guru to then become diksha guru and everything will have the best order.

 

Sadhus and siksha gurus are important.

Then, when one is very sure of his decision he can accept diksha guru.

 

But, diksha in the Bhagavat marga is not formal. It is initiation through Srimad Bhagavatam as Sukadeva was initiated that way. The whole Bhagavat marga is based on Sukadeva Goswami and his Bhagavat diksha though spiritual knowledge.

 

In the Bhagavat Marga as shown by Sukadeva, even formal Pancaratrika diksha is not absolutely necessary.

 

Students of the Bhagavat are liberated souls already.

They are beyond formal diksha.

 

Mahaprabhu said even a sudra who knows the Science of Krishna consciosness can be a guru.

So, the sudra does not have diksha or sacred thread, but still he can be guru if he knows Krishna-tattva.

 

Ramananda Raya was one such sudra.

The topmost guru was sudra.

 

In the conclusion of Bhaktivinoda's book Bhagavatarka-marici-mala: Thakura Mahasya writes :

 

punataya mane haila sri guru carane

akrtajna haile bhakti sadhiba kemane

lajja tyaji likhi ebe tadiya ajnaya

aparadha jadi hay , khamo mahasay

vipina vihari prabhu mama prabhuvara

sri vamsivadanananda vamsa sasadhara

sei prabhupadera anujnaya sire dhari

bhagavata slokasvada nirantara kari

 

Once again I remember my guru' lotus feet ; yet without showing gratitude , how can I execute bhakti ? Putting aside all reticence , I am writing under his order . So , if I commit an aparadha , dear reader , please forgive me . Vipina Vihari is my master , for he is the nright moon appearing from Vamsivadanananda Thakura's vamsa ( family descendents) . Holding that Prabhupada's order respectfully upon my head , I constantly relish the slokas of the Bhagavata .

 

Thus , Bhaktivinoda reveres his guru , Vipina Vihari Gosvami , whose parampara begins woth Vamsivadanananda Thakura . Vamsivadana is Gauranga's eternal associate and the incarnation of Krsna's flute . In the book Vamsisiksa by Prema dasa Misra , Sriman Mahaprabhu teaches the rasaraja doctrine to Vamsivadana just to prior to leaving Navadvipa to take sannyasa . In the beginning of Vamsi-siksa it is stated ,

 

sarva sukhamaya vanda srigurucarana

jahara asraye pai nigudha bhajana

rasarajabhinna vandya caitanya gosani

emana dayala prabhu kabhu dekhi nai

kalipapa tapacchanna dekhi jiva gane

udaya haiya prabhu sacira bhavane

dui bhave dui karja karila sadhana

anye iha nahi jane jane bhaktagana

bahiranga bhave hare krna rama nama

pracarila jagamajhe gauragunadhama

antaranga bhakta antaranga bhaktagane

rasaraja upasana karila arpane

 

Glories to Sri Guru's lotus feet which bestow paramananda . By taking shelter of him , one can learn all the intimate topics of bhajana . I offer my prostrated dandavats to Sri Caitanya Gosai , who is non-different from Rasaraja Sri Krsna . Seeing the people of the Kali Yuga who are covered by sin and suffering , Sri Caitanya advented in the home of Saci Devi . Then he began two types of sadhana , which only the bhaktas know about . Externally , Gaura , the abode of all good qualities , distributed the names Hare Krsna Hare Rama. But his internal mission with his antaranga bhaktas was offering them rasaraja worship

[krsna 3]

 

why does everybody always get stuck on the diksha guru and minimize the siksha guru?

 

Srila Prabhupada said that the siksha gurus comes first and that generally the siksha guru becomes the diksha guru later on.

 

So, it seems like that the first thing an aspiring newcomer would want to do is find a siksha guru who can answer all his questions.

 

Then, later, the siksha guru might also become the diksha guru.

 

That is the way of the Bhagavat marga.

 

In Vaidika culture diksha comes first and then the student is taught the Vedas and the logic shastra called Nyaya.

 

But, in Vaishnavism the bhagavat marga is prominent with panacharatrika-vidhi playing the supporting role.

 

So, first of all is most importat to get education in Krishna consciousness.

First, the candidate must learn Bhagavad-gita As It Is from the acharya, then go on to Srimad Bhagavatam etc.

 

But, the cult of diksha guru comes before siksha guru is a big cheater cult and is not in line with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

These cheater gurus don't want you to get good siksha first, because then you will be smart enough to avoid the cheater gurus. So, these cheater gurus they are all about diksha, to get the disciple under his control and then most of the time these diksha gurus don't even give the disciple proper siksha to help them advance in Krishna consciousness.

 

 

 

So, nobody should worry about diksha until he has proper foundation in Krishna consciousness teachings and the shastra.

 

Then, when one is very informed about the true qualities of the guru, then he can committ to a diksha guru.

 

Diksha guru is not supreme. Diskha guru comes after one find the proper siksha guru. Many times the siksha guru is predominant in the faith of a devotee if the devotee is hasty in taking diksha.

 

If the devotee is patient and wise, then he can accept his siksha guru to then become diksha guru and everything will have the best order.

 

Sadhus and siksha gurus are important.

Then, when one is very sure of his decision he can accept diksha guru.

 

But, diksha in the Bhagavat marga is not formal. It is initiation through Srimad Bhagavatam as Sukadeva was initiated that way. The whole Bhagavat marga is based on Sukadeva Goswami and his Bhagavat diksha though spiritual knowledge.

 

In the Bhagavat Marga as shown by Sukadeva, even formal Pancaratrika diksha is not absolutely necessary.

 

Students of the Bhagavat are liberated souls already.

They are beyond formal diksha.

 

Mahaprabhu said even a sudra who knows the Science of Krishna consciosness can be a guru.

So, the sudra does not have diksha or sacred thread, but still he can be guru if he knows Krishna-tattva.

 

Ramananda Raya was one such sudra.

The topmost guru was sudra.

 

Need a real Guru?

Pray to Lord Sri Krsna to send you one from His very own camp of most dear associates.

No kidding.

Krsna can send armies of pure devotees if He so wishes.

Why not?

Why can't KRSNA give you a sat Guru?

 

Why put a limit on His causeless mercy?

Why can't he deliver you from 'nescience'?

Or is 'nesciece' or Maya more powerful than KRSNA Himself?