Radharani: Another Stupid Question

[Guest guest]

I've seen some stupid questions on this board. Now it's my turn:

 

(I know it's stupid. But I don't know why it's stupid. That just leaves me STUPID)

 

You all know who I'm talking about: the Lord's pleasure potency personified.

 

Now I've heard Radharani described as the original female… and Krsna the original male… and all of creation springs from them.

 

Well, actually from Krsna. Right?

 

Anyway, I'm getting to my question.

 

Now Balarama or other Godhead expansions are mentioned and we know what they do. Well actually, most consider it mythology. (not me)

 

So having said that… coming back to Radharani:

 

She is the Lord's INTERNAL pleasure potency! This certainly means spiritual.

 

So that's what I know.

 

What exactly is Radharani's existential position? Is she (or She) jiva or Purusa?

 

I've heard of her explained as one of Krsna's principle potencies, yet never described as Godhead.

 

She is the opposite sex. Therefore something different? I don't know.

 

ancient paztriot (another stupid devotee)

[yasodanandana 0]

our God is not krsna... but radha krsna.... she's krsna tattva not jiva

[Guest guest]

Radha is His best Energy and not different from him because Radha is His Energy. So, with out Radha there is no "Krishna". Krishna is Radha and Radha is Krishna. Radha plays the part of His best devotee, because she is devotion personified. Radha- Best worshipper.

 

We are also His energy , though we are jiva energy, and can be either with Radha and serve Krishna by being happy or we can be with Maya and serve krishna by suffering in this world. You are only dumb if you go with Maya and get imprisoned by her. If you go with Radha and serve Krishna through Her association then you are the smart one.

 

Maya makes you suffer, Radha fills you with love. Pick one.

To make things more straightforward, you know you get the feeling of love and happiness when you are sometimes filled with so much devotion- thats Radha. Krishna is Balarama, He expands Himself into many forms and Balarama is one of them.

http://gauranga1.tripod.com/library/id48.html

http://gauranga1.tripod.com/articles/names_of_srimati_radhika.htm

Here, click on these links to read about Her and then let Her fill you with love for krishna. Our love to krishna comes only by her grace. She is happy when you show devotion to krishna.

 

-LoverSoul

[Guest guest]

Caitanya-caritamrta [Adi lild 4.95-98]:'Lord Krsna enchants the world, but Sri Radha enchants even Him. Tberefore She is the supreme goddess of all. Sri Rddha is the full power, and Lord Krsna is the possessor of full power. The two are not different, as evidenced by the revealed scriptures. They are indeed the same, just as musk and its scent are inseparable, or as fire and its heat are nondifferent. Thus, Radha and Krsna are one, although they have taken two forms to enjoy a relationship.",

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TEXT 73

krsnere karaya yaiche rasa asvadana

kridara sahaya yaiche, suna vivarana

 

TRANSLATION

Now please listen to how Lord Krsna's consorts help Him taste rasa and how they help in His pastimes.

 

TEXT 74-75

krsna-kanta-gana dekhi tri-vidha prakara

eka laksmi-gana, pure mahisi-gana ara

vrajangana-rupa, ara kanta-gana-sara

sri-radhika haite kanta-ganera vistara

 

TRANSLATION

The beloved consorts of Lord Krsna are of three kinds: the goddesses of fortune, the queens, and the milkmaids of Vraja, who are the foremost of all. These consorts all proceed from Radhika.

 

TEXT 76

avatari krsna yaiche kare a vatara

amsini radha haite tina ganera vistara

 

TRANSLATION

Just as the fountainhead, Lord Krsna, is the cause of all incarnations, so Sri Radha is the cause of all these consorts.

 

TEXT 77

vaibhava-gana yena tanra anga-vibhti

bimba-pratibimba-rupa mahisira tati

 

TRANSLATION

The goddesses of fortune are partial manifestations of Srimati Radhika, and the queens are reflections of Her image.

 

TEXT 78

laksmi-gana tanra vaibhava-vilasamsa-rupa

mahisi-gana vaibhava-prakasa-svarupa

 

TRANSLATION

The goddesses of fortune are Her plenary portions, and they display the forms of vaibhava-vilasa. The queens are of the nature of Her vaibhava-prakasa.

 

TEXT 79

akara svabhava-bh ede vraia-devi-gana

kaya-vyuha-rupa tanra rasera karana

 

TRANSLATION

The Vraja-devis have diverse bodily features. They are Her expansions and are the instruments for expanding rasa.

 

TEXT 80

bahu kanta vina nahe rasera ullasa

Iilara sahaya lagi' bahuta prakasa

 

TRANSLATION

Without many consorts, there is not such exultation in rasa. Therefore there are many manifestations of Srimati Radharani to assist in the Lord's pastimes.

 

TEXT 81

tara madhye vraie nana bhava-rasa-bhede

krsnake karaya rasadika-lilasvade

 

TRANSLATION

Among them are various groups of consorts in Vraja who have varieties of sentiments and mellows. They help Lord Krsna taste all the sweetness of the rasa dance and other pastimes.

 

PURPORT

As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna's pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.

[Guest guest]

Maya devi is simply another side of Srimati Radharani. We are eternally connected with Her, no matter what. Only Radha serves Krsna. All devotional service remains firmly under Her control, as does Sri Krsna Himself. She should never be seen as merely supplementary to Him in any way, but absolutely essential in every respect. One cannot become a devotee without taking shelter of Radhika, somehow or other.

[Guest guest]

radha is the enjoying potency,hladini sakti,Krsna

enjoys through His haldini sakti,his enjoying potency,

that is Radha,she is Krsna as enjoyer,she enjoys through

her expansions,the gopis,the queens,the innumerbale goddess's

of fortune,they are all identical to her,and to Krsna.

 

Radha and Krsna are One being,that One being

has assumed Two forms in order to enjoy pastimes,

But they are identical,they are non different,

in order to expand rasa,to expand enjoyment

Radha expands Herself as the gopis,queens,and goddess's

of fortune.

 

The idea that Radha alone serves Krsna is easily misunderstood,She is Krsna,She is the enjoying potency,

through Her Krsna's desire for pleasure is served,

He is enjoying or being served through Her enjoyment

of Rasa,It's not like She is one person serving Krsna

who is another person,She Is Krsna,Krsna is served

through her enjoyment.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the help. Sounds right.

 

I'm still bewildered at how she is never presented as Godhead anywhere…that I've heard.

 

ancient paztriot

[Guest guest]

but i have just showed where she is

presented as such,and many more places as well,

this is the purpose of Sri Caitanyas avatar,

to display the highest truth of the

personality of godhead,Krsna in the mood of

Radha.

 

when Shiva says

 

aham vedmi suko vetti vyaso vetti na vetti va

bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam na buddhya na ca tikaya

 

I know, Sukadeva knows; Vyasadeva may or may not know the meaning of Srimad-Bhagavatam. The Srimad-Bhagavatam can only be known through bhakti, not by mundane intelligence or by reading many commentaries. (Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya 24.315 )

 

this is what he is refering to,the conclusion of

the Bhagavatam,the author Vyasadeva,he may not know

the meaning of what he has written, Why ?

 

The meaning is hidden,the words themselves have

an inner meaning,therefore Vyasa may or may not know,

if the words were literal,then Vyasa would know,

He wrote the words,but since the words have an inner dimension as well, Na Vetti va,He may not know,

inother words the inner meaning reveals the truth,

the external words only show partial truth.

[Guest guest]

from Bhaktivinodas jaiva dharma

 

 

n the Narada-pancaratra, Goddess Durga explains:

 

"O Krishna, I am Radha, who stays on Your chest during the rasa dance in Vrindavan forest."

 

Thus from Durga-devi's words we can understand that the Lord does not have two potencies. There is only one potency, who manifests Herself as the spiritual potency Radhika and the material potency Visnu-maya. When the potency is free from the material modes, she is called the spiritual potency, and when she is within the sphere of the material modes, she is called the material potency.

 

 

The potency and the possessor of the potency are not different."

 

The meaning, then, is that the potency does not exist apart from its substance. The only true substance is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the master of potencies. The nature of the potency is either to be a quality of the Supreme Lord, or submissive to His will.

 

When it is said that the potency has pure consciousness, that means that because the potency and the master of potencies are not different, therefore, like the master of potencies, the potency also has a form of spiritual consciousness, has desires that are at once fulfilled, and is beyond the touch of the three modes.

 

It is not a mistake to say these things. Will and consciousness are qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

By itself, the potency does not possess will, but rather it carries out the will of the Supreme.

 

For example, you have power, and by Your will, your potencies act. If you say, 'the power acted', then that means that the possessor of the power was actually behind the action.

 

To say that 'the power acted' is only to use a figure of speech.

 

In truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has only one potency.

 

When she performs spiritual actions, she is called spiritual potency, and when she performs material actions, she is called the material potency, or maya. The Vedas (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.8) explain:

 

 

The potency of the Supreme is manifested in many different ways."

 

The potency that manifests the three modes is the material potency. She creates and destroys the material universes. Those are her duties. In the Puranas and Tantras this potency is called by many names, such as Visnu-maya, Maha-maya, and Maya

 

. Allegorically she is also called 'the mother of Brahma, Visnu and Shiva", 'the killer of Sumbha and Nisumbha', and other like names that describe her different activities. As long as he remains deeply enmeshed in material consciousness, the soul is under her power.

 

When he attains pure spiritual knowledge, the soul can understand the nature of his original spiritual form. Then he is freed from the ropes of Maya. Then he is under the power of the spiritual potency. Then he becomes happy.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"I'm still bewildered at how she is never presented as Godhead anywhere…that I've heard."

 

Although much has been written concerning Srimati Radharani, She can only be personally realized when transcendentally revealed through Her confidential associates, by the causeless mercy of Sri Guru. No amount of sadhana or study will bring the desired results if apararadha persists. Krsna wants His devotees to be glorified more than Himself. Nothing can replace a humble service attitude towards all.

 

[gHari 0]

An overview of this very esoteric topic is presented by Srila Prabhupada in the introduction to the Caitanya-caritamrita Adi-Lila:<blockquote>Caitanya MahAprabhu informs us that in every country and in every scripture there is some hint of love of Godhead. But no one knows what love of Godhead actually is. The Vedic scriptures, however, are different in that they can direct the individual in the proper way to love God. Other scriptures do not give information on how one can love God, nor do they actually define or describe what or who the Godhead actually is. Although they officially promote love of Godhead, they have no idea how to execute it. But Caitanya MahAprabhu gives a practical demonstration of how to love God in a conjugal relationship. Taking the part of SrImatI RAdhArANI, Caitanya MahAprabhu tried to love KRSNa as RAdhArANI loved Him. KRSNa was always amazed by RAdhArANI's love. "How does RAdhArANI give Me such pleasure?" He would ask. In order to study RAdhArANI, KRSNa lived in Her role and tried to understand Himself. This is the secret of Lord Caitanya's incarnation. Caitanya MahAparbhu is KRSNa, but He has taken the mood and role of RAdhArANI to show us how to love KRSNa. Thus the author writes in the fifth verse, "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, who is absorbed in RAdhArANI's thoughts."

 

This brings up the question of who SrImatI RAdhArANI is and what RAdhA-KRSNa is. Actually RAdhA-KRSNa is the exchange of love--but not ordinary love. KRSNa has immense potencies, of which three are principal: the internal, the external and the marginal potencies. In the internal potency there are three divisions: samvit, hlAdinI and sandhinI. The hlAdinI potency is KRSNa's pleasure potency. All living entities have this pleasure-seeking potency, for all beings are trying to have pleasure. This is the very nature of the living entity. At present we are trying to enjoy our pleasure potency by means of the body in the material condition. By bodily contact we are attempting to derive pleasure from material sense objects. But we should not entertain the nonsensical idea that KRSNa, who is always spiritual, also tries to seek pleasure on this material plane. In the Bhagavad-gItA KRSNa describes the material universe as a nonpermanent place full of miseries. Why, then, would He seek pleasure in matter? He is the Supersoul, the supreme spirit, and His pleasure is beyond the material conception.

 

To learn how KRSNa enjoys pleasure, we must study the first nine cantos of SrImad-BhAgavatam, and then we should study the Tenth Canto, in which KRSNa's pleasure potency is displayed in His pastimes with RAdhArANI and the damsels of Vraja. Unfortunately, unintelligent people turn at once to the sports of KRSNa in the Dazama-skandha, the Tenth Canto. KRSNa's embracing RAdhArANI or His dancing with the cowherd girls in the rAsa dance are generally not understood by ordinary men, because they consider these pastimes in the light of mundane lust. They foolishly think that KRSNa is like themselves and that He embraces the gopIs just as an ordinary man embraces a young girl. Some people thus become interested in KRSNa because they think that His religion allows indulgence in sex. This is not kRSNa-bhakti, love of KRSNa, but prAkRta-sahajiyA--materialistic lust.

 

To avoid such errors, we should understand what RAdhA-KRSNa actually is. RAdhA and KRSNa display Their pastimes through KRSNa's internal energy. The pleasure potency of KRSNa's internal energy is a most difficult subject matter, and unless one understands what KRSNa is, one cannot understand it. KRSNa does not take any pleasure in this material world, but He has a pleasure potency. Because we are part and parcel of KRSNa, the pleasure potency is within us also, but we are trying to exhibit that pleasure potency in matter. KRSNa, however, does not make such a vain attempt. The object of KRSNa's pleasure potency is RAdhArANI; KRSNa exhibits His potency as RAdhArANI and then engages in loving affairs with Her. In other words, KRSNa does not take pleasure in this external energy but exhibits His internal energy, His pleasure potency, as RAdhArANI and then enjoys with Her. Thus KRSNa manifests Himself as RAdhArANI in order to enjoy His internal pleasure potency. Of the many extensions, expansions and incarnations of the Lord, this pleasure potency is the foremost and chief.

 

It is not that RAdhArANI is separate from KRSNa. RAdhArANI is also KRSNa, for there is no difference between the energy and the energetic. Without energy, there is no meaning to the energetic, and without the energetic, there is no energy. Similarly, without RAdhA there is no meaning to KRSNa, and without KRSNa there is no meaning to RAdhA. Because of this, the VaiSNava philosophy first of all pays obeisances to and worships the internal pleasure potency of the Supreme Lord. Thus the Lord and His potency are always referred to as RAdhA-KRSNa. Similarly, those who worship NArAyaNa first of all utter the name of LakSmI, as LakSmI-NArAyaNa. Similarly, those who worship Lord RAma first of all utter the name of SItA. In any case--SItA-RAma, RAdhA-KRSNa, LakSmI-NArAyaNa--the potency always comes first.

 

RAdhA and KRSNa are one, and when KRSNa desires to enjoy pleasure, He manifests Himself as RAdhArANI. The spiritual exchange of love between RAdhA and KRSNa is the actual display of KRSNa's internal pleasure potency. Although we speak of "when" KRSNa desires, just when He did desire we cannot say. We only speak in this way because in conditioned life we take it that everything has a beginning; however, in spiritual life everything is absolute, and so there is neither beginning nor end. Yet in order to understand that RAdhA and KRSNa are one and that They also become divided, the question "When?" automatically comes to mind. When KRSNa desired to enjoy His pleasure potency, He manifested Himself in the separate form of RAdhArANI, and when He wanted to understand Himself through the agency of RAdhA, He united with RAdhArANI, and that unification is called Lord Caitanya. </blockquote>

[Guest guest]

I admit it. I just bewilder myself trying to understand.

 

You guys gave some great answers. It's over my head.

 

ancient paztriot

 

(I can understnd simultaneous oneness and difference better than I can understand this stuff.)

 

[Guest guest]

don't overthink it,it's really very simple,

god is an infinite conscious energy,

god also controls that energy ,the energy

and the controller of the energy are the same thing.

 

for enjoyment god manifests human forms,

Radha is the complete female personality,

Krsna is the complete male personality,

Radha is the form taken to enjoy.

 

all other forms such as gopis,queens,or other

goddess's are also the same as Radha,though

they may exhibit a variety of attributes,still

they are all Radha,or the complete personality,

all of the expansions of Krsna also may exhibit

a variety of attributes,but they are all

still the complete personality.

 

While Krsna is called rasaraja,and the supreme enjoyer,

we are also told he enjoys through his pleasure

potency,that is Radha,so actually although Krsna

is the supreme enjoyer,Radha is the vehicle for that enjoyment,She is therefore called the internal

potency,she is the inner identity of godhead,

all expansions or incarnations are therefore

Her aspects,She is therefore

called the personified Cit potency,

the spiritual potency, the part of god

engaged in enjoying eternal pastimes,

She is the ultimate deciding factor of Godhead,

The pleasure pastimes work under Her direction,

Her desire is what is being manifest in lila.

 

[Kulapavana 0]

when we daydream about our ideal love it is just a dream... but when Krishna dreams about His love, Srimati Radharani manifests, smiling at Him hiding behind a tamal tree... yet She has no begining, She was always there...

[Guest guest]

 

that is a common misconception repeated almost

universaly.

 

the concept that what is descriptive of rasa between

Krsna and Radha and Her expansions is literal.

 

Sri Caitanya when asked by Sanatana to explain

the famous verse from the Bhagavatam;1.7.10

 

"All different varieties of atmaramas [those who take pleasure in atma, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead. This means that the Lord possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including liberated souls."

 

 

Sri Caitanya then went on for around 300 verses,

ending with;

 

aham vedmi suko vetti, vyaso vetti na vetti va

bhaktya bhagavatam grahyam, na buddhya na ca tikaya

 

Lord Siva said: "I know the meaning of the Bhagavat and I know that Sukadeva knows it also. But for Vyasadeva, he may or may not know it. The Bhagavat can only be known through bhakti, not by mundane intelligence or by reading many commentaries.

 

this is from Narasinga Maharaja

 

Narada, Sambhu, and Vaiyasaki, or Sukadeva Gosvami, have got special connection with madhurya-rasa in Vrindavana. Sukadeva Gosvami was the suka, parrot of Srimati. Narada Muni got gopi-svarupa near Govardhan, and Lord Siva also got gopi-svarupa for dancing in rasa-lila.

 

When Lord Siva was bathed by the gopis in a sacred kund in Vrindavana to get his gopi-svarupa he emerged with the snake still wrapped around his neck. Some say that the snake which is always seen on the neck of Siva is Ananta, his guru.

 

Rather than be a direct participant in the rasa-lila, Siva was then given the position of the protector of the rasa-lila and thus his name Gopesvara Mahadeva.

 

The most esoteric erotic principle of Divine Love reaches its pinnacle in the tenth canto of the Bhagavat. Those who are conscious of the ontology of events in the tenth canto are given at times to call the Bhagavat by the name Radha Bhagavat.

 

Lord Siva was to some degree privy to that which took place in rasa-lila. It so happened that some "time" later in the Brahma-loka Lord Siva was reciting the Vrindavana-lila to Parvati and Srimati's suka was present there. Thinking that the parrot would repeat the sacred Bhagavat here and there without any realization and thus cheapening the context of the Bhagavat, Lord Siva decided to kill the poor bird. The rest we have heard in the Sriya Suka article. The parrot flew, with Siva in quick pursuit, to the asram of Vyasadeva and entered the mouth of the wife of Vyasadeva. That is what the Gaudiyas call "Divine Conception".

 

So in this sense, the practical sense, Lord Siva knows that Suka knows the meaning of the Bhagavat (particularly tenth canto) - he heard it directly from the vision of Siva who was there in his gopi-svarupa and we can also safely conclude that he heard what went on there in the erotic pastimes of rasa-lila from Srimati, the Illustrious Queen of Vrindavana.

 

--------------------------

 

So the idea we recieve from both Sri Caitanya and Mahadeva

is that the true meaning of the pastimes of Sri Krsna,

that is not necessarily known to the person who

reads the Bhagavatam,even the writer of the Bhagavatam

may not know .

 

this has generally been spoken about as being

about the relative position of the Guru,

how the Guru is not absolute,one persons Guru

may not be seen as Guru by someone else,or even

by himself,Sri Caitanya when speaking the above verse

went on to say that He was speaking like a mad man,

that he may not know what he was speaking,

the truth was using him but He may not know it.

 

So Vyasa may not know,Sri Caitanya even says

he may not know,all of this is to make a point,

of course they know,they are making a point.

 

That is what is described as Krsna lila in the Bhagavatam,

that description, what is written,is not what is meant,

their is another meaning to the descriptions,

the literal words are hiding another truth,

therefore Sri Caitanya says He may not know,

Shiva says Vyasa may not know,but He knows,

and Sukadeva knows.

 

and how do they know ?

 

Shiva was given the role of Gopesvara,protector

of the gopis,and Sukadeva was there to witness.

 

That is the hidden inner understanding,Radha and the gopis

and Krsna, they are all one and the same supreme

personality of Godhead,Shiva has the real meaning of their

lila revealed to Him,He becomes Gopesvara,Lord of the gopis,

and this is his role in Vraja lila,this is why

Krsna insists that ;

 

"Among my favorites Brahma is dear to Me.

 

Lakshmi, ever residing on my chest, is dearer than Brahma.

 

Radha is yet dearer, and my devotees are dearer still.

 

Dearest of all is Shankara (Siva); no one is dearer than He.

 

My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha.

 

My Self with Sankara, who is dearer than My life."

 

[Kulapavana 0]

I have hard time understanding your post, especially as a critique to my earlier post. Does my post suggest in any way that Radha and Krishna are NOT one Supreme Person?

 

Also you say: "that is a common misconception repeated almost universaly.

 

the concept that what is descriptive of rasa between

Krsna and Radha and Her expansions is literal"

 

Do you suggest that pastimes of Radha an Krishna in Vrindaban as presented in Gaudiya sampradaya are not be accepted literally as well as esotericaly?

 

Anyway, this subject is way above my head... Hare Krishna!

[Guest guest]

Not to worry, prabhuji, he's "almost universaly" above most of our heads. Thankfully, it's still our hearts that really count!

 

http://www.audarya-fellowship.com/showflat/cat/hinduism/26575/0/collapsed/5/o/1

[Guest guest]

Part of the "symbolic" meaning behind Radha and Her girlfriends ultimately defeating Krsna in every competition...Jai Radhe!!!

[Guest guest]

don't be upset, this is for your own edification,

and is not meant as criticism,but for giving a deeper

understanding.

 

siddhanta vihina hoile krsne citta lage na

sambandha hinera kabhyu abhideya haya na

 

"Without knowledge of transcendental truth (siddhanta), no one's heart can ever be spiritually attuned with Lord Krishna. If one lacks knowledge of his relationship with Krishna (sambandha), then proper execution of devotional service in relationship to Him (abidheya) is impossible."

 

sambandha vihina jana prayojana paya na

ku siddhante vyasta jana krsna seva kore na

 

"One who lacks knowledge of sambandha, the relationship between Krishna and the living entities, can never attain prayojana, the supreme goal of life [namely pure love of Godhead, Krishna prema.] One who is distracted by bogus philosophical conclusions about devotional service (ku-siddhanta) is not performing actual devotional service to Sri Krishna."

 

 

 

siddhanta alasa jana anartha to chade na

jade krsna bhrama kori krsna seva kore na

 

"One who is lazy in properly understanding the Vaisnava philosophical conclusions can never become free from anarthas, the unwanted bad habits and philosophical misconceptions what impede devotional service. One who mistakes Krishna as belonging to the material plane can never render actual service to the Lord."

 

 

 

so the sentimental conception of Radha Krsna may

be allright for those who are not attempting to

enter into their association,but for those interested

in becoming an associate of Radha Krsna it is necessary

to understand them and their desire in fullness

and truth ,free from all misconceptions.

 

By studying rasa lila pastimes 99.9% of those who do so

misunderstand what they represent,this is due to insufficient realization of the Bhagavat siddhanta

revealed in the Bhagavatam previous to the 10th

Canto.

 

they mistake the pastimes between Radha ,Krsna and the gopis

to be like the similar human relationships,A young man

and young women enjoying relationships, while this

may appear to be what the rasa lila is conveying,

that is not the fact,this is why the many warning are

there to instruct us ,that what the rasa lila in the bhagavatam

is describing is easily misunderstood,and that first

the previous instructions should be realized.

 

A person who reads the rasa lila and tries to understand

what is going on by empirical methodology will simply see

Krsna and the gopis etc,and think that what is being described is what is meant.

 

for example,when you said

 

"when we daydream about our ideal love it is just a dream... but when Krishna dreams about His love, Srimati Radharani manifests, smiling at Him hiding behind a tamal tree... yet She has no begining, She was always there... "

 

 

that conception,of Radha as one person who loves Krsna who is another person,and vice versa,is incorrect.

 

the Bhagavata concept is that they are one and the same,

with this understanding Rasa lila should be understood,

what is described as being love between those individuals

has another connotation,as those "individuals"

are in fact one and the same person.

 

So Krsna is not dreaming of Radha,Radha is not dreaming

of Krsna,with the Bhagavata concept that is an illogical

conception, a sane person would not be thinking about having

a relationship with himself in another form or dress,

this is why the warnings are there, without proper

education the pastimes of Radha Krnsa are not

understood properly,and therefore for those who wish

to understand and enter into a rasa with Radha Krsna

they need first, proper siddhanta in order

to achieve sambhanda other wise abideyha or

proper rasa is not possible.

 

the sentimental approach based on a lack of realization

and education is allright for the average person,they

are far from entering into the divine rasa of Radha Krsna,

but for those who are trying to become eligible for that

rasa,then first they must become free from

misconceptions.

 

then you said

 

"Do you suggest that pastimes of Radha an Krishna in Vrindaban as presented in Gaudiya sampradaya are not be accepted literally as well as esotericaly?"

 

exactly, we are told repeatedly that rasa lila is written

in symbolic language,if you except it all as literal

you will not be able to attain perfect siddhanta,

the empirical study accepts it as literal,

they read the words and accept what those words imply literaly, Vyaso veti na veti va, Sri Caitanya and Mahadeva tell us that the Bhagavatam is not understandable that way,

 

"I know the meaning of the Bhagavat and I know that Sukadeva knows it also. But for Vyasadeva, he may or may not know it. The Bhagavat can only be known through bhakti, not by mundane intelligence or by reading many commentaries."

 

 

anyone who claims to be an authority on rasa lila

but teaches the highest conclusions as being what is literaly written down, that person is not an authority.

[Guest guest]

Okay, sorry about going off the subject but does anyone know the specific date that Swami Prabhupada passed away? I think it is in October 1977, but I don't know the date specifically.

[gHari 0]

You try to chastise yourself, but do not listen:<blockquote>"I know the meaning of the Bhagavat and I know that Sukadeva knows it also. But for Vyasadeva, he may or may not know it. The Bhagavat can only be known through bhakti, not by mundane intelligence or by reading many commentaries."</blockquote>

 

We would all do better to listen to the genuine gurus whose every word drips with love of God, and abandon the vain ramblings of mentalists ostracized from the parampara truth.

 

There is no devotion in that hell, and we too would be fools for going there. We must learn to recognize whether it is Krsna helping us or someone just building his intellect's ego. Was that stuff from Krsna? Could you see those words coming from Srila Prabhupada? Don't have your hearts destroyed.

 

Now for his offenses he will blow up and go to hell, just as before. Just watch, and erase every evil word from this thread in your consciousness, or you too will be doomed to this loveless hell.

 

<CENTER><TABLE border=5 cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="65%"><TD bgcolor=yellow width="100%" valign=middle><TABLE border=0 cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><TD bgcolor=yellow width="25%" valign=middle><CENTER><IMG SRC=http://canoeparts.ca/KINGDOM/Stop.gif></CENTER></td><TD bgcolor=yellow width="75%" valign=middle><font color="red"><CENTER><h1>WARNING</h1><h3></font><font color="blue">NOT PARAMATMA APPROVED</h3></font>Buddhi-yoga not origin of

speculations contained herein

<font color="red">Proceed at own risk</font>

</center></td></table></td></table></CENTER>

67567-warning.txt

[gHari 0]

Prabhupada left.

[Guest guest]

if i was a computer i might be able to

decipher your rambling thought,

but either way,i find it odd that not long ago,

here at this forum,you were arguing that Krsna,

and his expansions were seperate individuals,

you stated " i cannot believe that Krsna is alone",

you were preaching polytheism as being Vedic

siddhanta,i remember showing you numerous

verses stating that there is One god,only,

in many forms,pastimes,personas, etc.

 

you argued and argued against this concept of mono theism,

of course you were never able to actually present any shastric evidence to back up your claims of

One-God-Who-becomes-many-gods, rhetoric,

as you still are unable to do so, instead you revert

to your old tactic of claiming "superior" sentiments,

"superior" siddhanta,etc,while never actually showing

us the specifics, as there is nothing to back you up.

 

instead of claiming your stewardship of absolute truth,and any conclusion that differs from yours as bogus,please

present us with your divine vision...

 

how does that go again, God is many ?

not one?

 

rather then expose your lack of education and realization

to everyone,(and your tendency for overdramatic self promotion),

why not point out the flaws in what i present ?

 

If you cannot do so, then your claim as being the watchdog for truth is really nothing more then barking .

[gHari 0]

is simply the beginning of the blowup. Then you become totally irrational. Will this cycle ever end?

 

When will you finally accept that from Krsna's point of view, Sri Radha is real; Their love is real? Acintya-bheda-abheda. He cannot allow you to turn the Vedas into mythology, analogy and ooga-booga. Until you change, your heart will remain empty; your words poisonous serpents.

 

I will encourage no more of this nonsense. You will try to refute the entire sampradaya, but the truth is that your twisted view is simply evil.

 

[Govindaram 1]

 

jaya sri radhe!

 

ps.i don't see the point in saying sri radha & krishna

are the same, from devotional point of view, i would

rather think of them as seperate but same at same time.

 

Bye.