thou shall not kill/murder?

[Govindaram 1]

 

talking with a christian he says the original hebrew word is murder not kill..any comments?

 

i am confuced.

[theist 1]

They are confused not you. I have had a couple conversations with this one particular Rabbi. At first I was encouraged when he agreed all living things have souls. But then he explained there are plant souls animal souls etc. on up to Jewish souls.

 

I have becpme so worn out try to use the Bible to convince them of not killing animals. Now I stick to the first chapter in Genesis where it says God's original plan was for all to be vegan, and that included the animals. That coupled with something from Isaiha where the prophet says that in Gods restored kingdom all would be vegan again. I then ask them why they don't live up to God's original will and the will He is directing us back to.

 

That and some enviromental arguements are about it for these people.

 

Good luck

[Haridham 0]

In Genesis it is said that "I have given you plenty of herbs and seads, you need not devour the flesh of the dead"

 

Also in the bible it is said that God said when jesus comes he will only eat milk and honey.

 

Later on, someone offered him fish and honey and he chose one. NOw we can assume since God told Jesus to only eat milk and honey he chose honey instead of fish.

 

Thats my two cents

[theist 1]

Haridham, While you try to find quotes in the Bible you will no doubt see that you were a little confused when you wrote that last post.

[Haridham 0]

I didnt understand what you meant

[Govindaram 1]

 

the problem is if in the bible it said eating flesh was ok then great np, and also there are so many christians that say jesus TALKS with them!..wow if thats the case what the hey am i doing trying to be a hare-krishna, i am joking by the way..is this what they call sahajiya? going off the subject i know. hari bol!

[Haridham 0]

Yeah I have met many who say Jesus talks to me and he has given me visions but thats to fool an uneducated crowd. I mean if he did talk to them then they would be far more into their spiritual lives, more humble and such.

 

I doubt he is talking to them, rather they are trying to prove to other christians that they are the chosen one by Jesus.

[Gaurasundara 0]

 

Yeah I have met many who say Jesus talks to me and he has given me visions but thats to fool an uneducated crowd. I mean if he did talk to them then they would be far more into their spiritual lives, more humble and such.

 

 

I think it's usually the Pentecostals who speak about direct communion with Jesus, since being possessed by the Holy Spirit is a big part of their doctrine. I once was quite close to a Pentecostal friend. We used to discuss religion and she told me that she talks to Jesus on account of her being possessed by the Holy Spirit. I kindly tried to explain to her that it is not possible to communicate with divine figures unless one is "clean" first, and this could not be possible since she smoked, drank, had boyfriends, had sex all over the place, etc. Weird.

Some time later she started aggressively preaching to me that Krishna was a false god and that Jesus was the real one. I was so turned off that I just left. Later she apologised, and even though I have forgiven her I just never spoke to her again uptil today. It really really put me off.

[Govindaram 1]

me thinks it's their sub-conscious mind playing tricks on them, i'm sure it is stated in the Bible what the qualification of a bhakta are and or of-cource pastimes of devotees.

 

re-born maybe bit like diksa, it's not a magic wand..patience prabhu's (aaahhhhh)! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Haridham 0]

I find it quite silly and other words that I cant come up with when they say things like Jesus has come inside me as the holy spirit and is showing his loving glance through me to save a soul like you.

 

Ofcourse right after this person said this to me he proceeded to smoke. I never even heard some of the great vaisnavas say things like this and I am sure they have better qaulifications then most of these people who perticipate in meat eating, smoking, illicit sex life etc.

 

The big one is when they say let me put my hand on your shoulder and pray for you with the holy spirit. I let them do that and then say "wow that did work, now I can chant Hare Krsna better, thanks"

 

 

[theist 1]

Then how does one get clean if they must first be clean to speak with Divine souls? What is sadhu sanga?

 

I have a very simple very of this all.

 

Jesus didn't come to the world just to speak to a few Jewish embodied beings or to tweak their religion a bit.

 

His was/is a world wide mission.

 

What separates us from God? Our past karma and misdirected desires which insure our creating more karma.

 

One of I am sure many reasons Christ sacrificed Himself on the cross was to take our past karma. Don't Hare Krsna's say that at intiation the spiritual master absorbs their past karma? And even his body develops symptoms of suffering like nightmares and illness because of it.

 

Same thing. Only Christ was acting on a larger scale and a broader time frame. For those that truly accept that sacrifice He wipes away our past sinful reactions that are blocking our connection and communication with the Supersoul, from Whom we draw our strength to complete step two, the transformation of our desires. This is the intiation or rebirth. Both intiation and rebirth point to a new beginning, a chance to grow in a different direction.

 

So-called Christians often forget that Christ also said pick up your cross and follow Me. Neglecting step two they take step one the initiation to be all that is necessary. Big mistake.

 

Its like accepting initiation from one's guru and then neglecting his instructions, while still thinking you are a true disciple.

 

As Prabhupada instructed the Lord within their heart, the Holy Spirit or Paramatma, will then strengthen their faith in Christ and they then may go to Christ-loka, Christ's planet. There they will be thought the intimate teachings of the Personality of Godhead.

 

I also accept that the presence of Christ can be felt on this earth even now. To think otherwise would mean that time and/or space has the ability to erode the sheer power of such an avatar's presence. I can't accept that. What gets eroded is our rememberance of His presence and not the presence Himself. Remember we are speaking of a light that doesn't dim.

 

So if we desire to be instruments of the Supersoul when we speak to them, we should question those blocks that they are engaged in, like animal slaughter and teach the all- pervading nature of the eternal self, at least planting some seeds and asking them to chant the names of Christ and any name for the Father that most attracts them.

 

Help them join Christ at Christ-loka, along with the many others from different corners of this universe. He will take them back from there.

 

Blessed be the name of the one who comes in the name and nature of the Lord.

 

Jaya Jaya Yoshua! Jaya Jaya Krsna!

 

Just my viewpoint.

[Guest guest]

<<< The big one is when they say let me put my hand on your shoulder and pray for you with the holy spirit. I let them do that and then say "wow that did work, now I can chant Hare Krsna better, thanks" >>>

 

LOL! Outstanding!

 

Hare Krsna!

[Guest guest]

***Christ at Christ-loka

 

He is in tapa-loka. Tapa-loka, Brahmaloka.

[Myra 0]

 

You said it so well. Now, I understand more and more about Jesus in HK's perspective.

 

God Bless and may the Holy Spirit of Yoshua be with you always.

 

 

Myra.

[Guest guest]

Thank you Myra. Of course mine is a tiny and incomplete perspective and should be seen that way.

 

Hare Krsna

[Priitaa 0]

Haridham: "In Genesis it is said that "I have given you plenty of herbs and seads, you need not devour the flesh of the dead"

 

Also in the bible it is said that God said when jesus comes he will only eat milk and honey.

 

Later on, someone offered him fish and honey and he chose one. NOw we can assume since God told Jesus to only eat milk and honey he chose honey instead of fish."

 

Thiest: "Haridham, While you try to find quotes in the Bible you will no doubt see that you were a little confused when you wrote that last post.

------

 

Thiest, I also don't understand your question here. Or maybe which point you are referring to.

 

I did read where they offered Jesus meat and honey, but he chose "it," singular, therefore the vegetarian foodstuff, as the verse right before (or after) it said something to the effect that he came to accept the good and reject the evil. Unless you were pointing to something else.

[Haridham 0]

Hare Krsna Priitaa ji.

 

Thank you, I thought I was an idiot for not understanding what he said.

 

I am curious though as to what he said.

[Priitaa 0]

Haridham "<<< The big one is when they say let me put my hand on your shoulder and pray for you with the holy spirit. I let them do that and then say "wow that did work, now I can chant Hare Krsna better, thanks" >>>

 

Guest: LOL! Outstanding!

 

Hare Krsna!"

 

------------

 

ROFL LOL lol I can really apprecaite this, as they did that to me too. Stopped me in my saree when out on skp, asking if they could put their hand on my shoulder and pray for me. I let them, feeling stupid the entire time, but also thinking what the heck, it ultimately goes up to Krishna since Jesus is a Vaisnava, so ok, I could use all the prayers I can get! But I remember feeling weirded out (for lack of a better word) when I walked away. I hadn't a clue what to say. Now I have a good come-back. ha

 

Not that I can go out on skp these days, but sometimes even at Rath, etc., they try to convert you. So it would be good to have a reply along those lines. And its true! /images/graemlins/smile.gif That is, prayer can help us chant better.

[Haridham 0]

Yeah, the gentleman who did that to me woudnt leave me alone and would berate me about Jesus everyday in december because of book distribution.

 

He would always yell at me "Repent Sinner! every day. I was like thanks for the encouragment thats why I am distributing these books.

 

I respect Jesus Christ but like you said Priitha ji, it does feel weird when they do that to you.

 

I mean most of these people dont have any potency and they make christianity look so bad.

 

It kinda gets kinda funny and creepy too, they put their hand on your shoulder, close their eyes, look upward(closing their eyes is good so they dont see me laughing)and say "Oh holy spirit, please save this soul and direct him to the right path, may Jesus come in your heart and save you" I mean most of these people arent potent and they use fear as a way to get you to become christian.

 

Anyways, the last time I talked to this gentleman(I say the word loosely as he was nuts and he also had a beard and such like Jesus) he said to me "Repent Sinner! I replied with "Repent Christian!

 

There was a chuckle from the crowd

 

Man these stories are funny.

[theist 1]

can't find the references where Jesus will come and eat milk and honey or where he was offered honey. No big deal I was probably wrong. But if you could provide the quote I would try again.

[Haridham 0]

Its in the early part of Genesis. I think the old Testement.

[theist 1]

That is in the very first chapter of Genesis about humans being vegan. I just can't find the milk and honey or fish quote.

[Myra 0]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Genesis it is said that "I have given you plenty of herbs and seads, you need not devour the flesh of the dead"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I can't find the correct verse from your quote. I happened to bump with the words "devour", "flesh" and "dead" sometime ago but I am sure it's not exactly as your quotation above.

 

The Bible says that in the earliest days of creation, all of God's creation (even animals) were vegetarian. When God blessed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, He said to them: "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be food for you. And to the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food. And it was so" (Genesis 1:29-30).

 

Even Noah and his sons were vegetarian. Imagine when they were meat eaters, they probably had consumed most of the animals in the ship for 40 days! LOL!!!

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also in the bible it is said that God said when jesus comes he will only eat milk and honey.

 

Later on, someone offered him fish and honey and he chose one. NOw we can assume since God told Jesus to only eat milk and honey he chose honey instead of fish.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Haridramaji, this is what was written: Luke 24:42-43, "And they gave him (Jesus) a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."

 

The authority of God for man to the mother earth has been taken for granted. And we would not deny that man has messed up the earth and most would argue that it is our responsibility to fix it. Let's start "save the earth"! Well Hindu, HK and other communities and few Christians has started the cause though it will be a long journey. Well, it also has been said that "A journey to a thousand miles, begin with a single step"....

 

I am a Vegetarian. Personally, I don't agree with the killings for the pleasure of eating meat or because of mere sports (but if it is a necessity - need vesus want, why not?). On the other hand let's be warned that there will be a host of doctrines that point man away from the truth, instead of towards it. One of these such doctrines, is the worship of the "deity of nature". Sometimes, a person become a vegetarian becasue it is a part of her/his beliefs--the idea that all of nature is God. Well, this may sound nice, but it simply is not true, and is a doctrine that prevents people from really knowing God as He is. NATURE IS NOT GOD. It reflects His creativity, His beauty, and many other things. However, it is only His creation, just as we are.

 

Jai Sri Jesus Hare krishna!

 

Myra.

 

P.S.

 

Haridrama, please don't get me wrong Prabhu but please choose and research the correct verses from the Bible (Vedas also), somehow, correct posting of verses may help avoid misunderstandings and wrong conclusions from readers.

 

 

[Haridham 0]

Thank you for correcting me.

 

I wasnt trying to confuse anyone. I paraphrased those verses because I didnt remember the verses nor do I carry the bible around.

 

All in all what I said was accurate wasnt it?

 

Atleast from what I read there it seemed like it.

 

All glories to all the assembled devotees which includes Jesus.

 

Hare Krsna

[Priitaa 0]

Thiest, not the milk part I can't prove, but the honey, or I think it was honey comb. I can get the verse if you, or anyone, wants me to.