Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Hello, I have a question, and I hope some of you can help me in my doubts and quesions. What is the mind? and how does it functions? I have read in many KC books about the mind, but I couldn't find an explenation about it and its functions. Thank you very much, Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Srimad Bhagavatam on the mind: 1.2.33. The Supersoul enters into the bodies of the created beings who are influenced by the modes of material nature and causes them to enjoy the effects of these modes by the subtle mind. 3.26.27. From the false ego of goodness, another transformation takes place. From this evolves the mind, whose thoughts and reflections give rise to desire. So this is the mind, its function is to accept and reject (or desire) based on sense perception and gratification. Hope this helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somesh Kumar Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 What is the mind? Mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts. But these thoughts have no value without the help of the consciouness (Spirit Soul). Arjuna asks a very nice question to Krishna giving the function/attributes of the mind: Arjuna says to Krishna: Chanchalam Hi Manah Krishna, Pramaathi Balavad Drdham, Tasyaaham Nigraham Manye, Vayor Iva Sudushkaram. Arjuna says:" O Krishna, mind is very obstinate, mad and to control it is more difficult than controlling the wind" Krishna replies to Arjuna saying: Asamshaya MahaBaho Mano Durnigraham Chalam, Abhyasena Tu Kaunteya, Vairagyna Cha Grhayate. Krishna says: "O Mahabaho, There's no doubt that the mind is very difficult to control. But, it can be done by regular practise and detachment" and how does it functions? Krishna says: Udhdhared Atman Aatmaanam, Naatmaanam Vasaadayet, Amaiva Hy Aaatmano Bandhur, Aaatmaiva Ripur Aaatmana. Krishna is saying: "Raise your mind by mind. For a person who has controlled his mind, the mind is the best friend and for a person who has not controlled it, it's his biggest enemy" The reason for this is that, the mind always goes by the thing which gives immediate pleasure, not thinking of the after-effects of the immediate pleasure. So when the mind is influenced by the immediate material pleasure then it is the enemy of the person. And when the mind is controlled to not enjoy the immediate material pleasure it is the friend of the preson. That's the reason why Krishna specifically states in many places to Arjuna to think of Him. The BEST one being where Krishna says: Man Manaa Bhava, Mad Bhakta, Madyaaji Maam Namaskuru, Maamevaishyasi Satyam Te, Pratijaane Priyosi Me Krishna is saying: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances to Me. You'll surely come to Me, I'm telling this to you, because you're very dear to Me" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauracandra Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 This isn't a spiritual question I have per se though it could be turned in that direction. My question is since every cell of the body changes every what is it 7 years? biologically how do scientists explain how memory continues within the brain. I have a brain. Each part of the brain will die off at different points. If my memory is within the cells, shouldn't my memory die off as well? Or is memory the pattern these cells take, and so long as one cell replaces in the exact spot another cell, the memory remains? I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yasodanandana Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 cells are not changing all together (like a "complete" reicarnation)... mental procedures are considered more an "electrical" thing (and vedas tooo... we thing that mind, being subtle, is more on the "energetic" side).. the cells are more as ram, resistances, condensers, relais, chips... if nature changes one cell at time, the mechanism goes on without stopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Scientists cannot explain it. It drives them crazy and it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 This bloodsucking mind attaches itself to us when we forget our eternal nature. The mind virus and the false ego virus each attack the soul, leading it downward into the world of accept and reject, right and wrong, good and baddha. It all starts with an apple in the garden of atmarama, I understand. gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 How is it possible that so many devotees talk about the mind and still no one can tell me something so simple as: what is the mind? How does it function? I asked many and very advanced, and everybody only sends me the same verses from the Gita. How could it be that there is so much talk about the mind without knowing what it is? Thank you for your intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 "How is it possible that so many devotees talk about the mind and still no one can tell me something so simple as: what is the mind?" A devotee once said to me "when you place Krishna within your mind, then you can have some intelligence" So I would say try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 With all due respect, I think that this is just another way of saying I DON’T KNOW, anyway, thank you very much for your efforts. I will continue with my request, can someone please tell me what is the mind? And how does it function? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 This is a very good question. We talk of the mind as a subtle casing for the soul. Like it is distinct from the soul totally. And yet we talk of the mind as being a constituent of the soul at other times. I seem to remember Prabhupada refering to the soul as a type of fume that radiates from the soul. I will try to find that quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Prabhupäda: No, no, no. We are discussing this verse. He said that “Anyone who is always think...” Karma-yogi also always thinks of Krsna. That’s all right. That is not denied. But the highest principle is always keeping Krsna within his mind. Premäïjana-cchurita... That is confirmed in the Brahma-saàhitä. Premäïjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaù sadaiva hådayeñu vilokayanti [bs. 5.38]. This kind of practice of yoga can be done by an unalloyed devotee. Premäïjana-cchurita, by developing the dormant love of God. That is... That is the highest perfection. And another thing is, you are accepting mind as ätmä, are you not? That’s not correct. Mind is not ätmä. Guest (1): No, no, mind is not ätmä. No. The ätmä and mind, they come together, each other come. When your mind does not go from here to there... Prabhupäda: Yes, mind fixed up in ätmä. That’s nice. But mind is not ätmä. Guest (1): No, no. Prabhupäda: Mind is matter, subtle matter. Guest (1): Certainly. That is the laws. Prabhupäda: Mind is kind of fume of the ätmä. So mind becomes, changes the color of the fume according to the state of the ätmä. If the ätmä is in pure state, then mind is pure. If the ätmä is impure state, the mind is impure. So we have taught all our disciples, satataà kértayanto mäà [bg. 9.14], always chanting Hare Kåñëa. Satataà kértayanto mäà [bg. 9.14]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 "With all due respect, I think that this is just another way of saying I DON'T KNOW, anyway, thank you very much for your efforts." You're right I don't know /images/graemlins/grin.gif that's why I said what I did, I asked the same question before, on another thread (somewhere), On a humorous note think about this: The Mind is subtle, think about it (in your mind) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Prabhupäda: Mind is kind of fume of the ätmä. So mind becomes, changes the color of the fume according to the state of the ätmä. If the ätmä is in pure state, then mind is pure. If the ätmä is impure state, the mind is impure. So we have taught all our disciples, satataà kértayanto mäà [bg. 9.14], always chanting Hare Kåñëa. Satataà kértayanto mäà [bg. 9.14]. ------------ Like smoke on fire the fume of the atma the smoke from the fire of consciousness that determines our state of conditioning under the modes of material nature If the 'soul' chants Hare Krishna then the mind is pure The pure mind can then relish the chanting ************************************** I am not this body or MIND What is mind anyway? So subtle So ethereal But still very much material Most people of this world identify themselves with this mind God , such a tricky thing, this mind Dagged about by the mind here there everywhere The mind's condititonings Full of sensual images of attachments man and women states of being renenforced all by the MIND Go beyond the mind Come to the soul platform by chanting Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Unfortunately this still does not explain ANYTHING about what is the mind and how does it function. Can someone please be so kind as to explain to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I tried to ask advanced devotees. even though many speak about Raganuga Bhakti and very advanced themes, and still they can not answer something so simple. My point is: how it is possible that there is so much talk about the mind without being able to explain, what it is? Isn’t that weird? I will ask this question in other forums and see if I get any response, if I do get something, I will inform you all. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I'm not sure what you are expecting, but as to what is the mind. It is an energetic medium used by the soul to experience the stimuli from the diverse senses in contact with their proper objects. All this is some transformation of diverse energies of the Supreme Lord. This mind is a transformation of energies just as the skin is a transformation of other energies. As to how it functions... I have absolutely no clue, I could only explain in the result of the mind's function. Maybe if you could explain me how a hand functions I could extrapolate how the mind functions from that explanation. Do not give me the results of the function of the hand to explain because I will reject it just as you rejected other people's answer by citing the effects of the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Mind is just like a river through which the thoughts flow. So, we can compare mind to the river of thoughts. Mind is our friend when it is composed of the satvic thoughts and the mind is our enemy where it is composed of many tamasic thoughts. I think thats a good explanation of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 google and type in mind. you will find the type of answer you are wanting. You are playing games with the participants here. Here are suggestions for your google search: Mind mind Prabhupada mind Krishna mind Krsna human mind These answers for this type of question can usually be found quickly just by doing the google search instead of asking here and then telling everyone that attempts to answer that they are wrong. After you do the search then you come back and you can make discussions and questions from what you have found. This makes for a nice unchallenging and non-frustrating discussion for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I am not rejecting any explanation about what is the mind and how does it function, simply no one here has given any answer like that, they only quoted verses and conversations. Look, I am not a devotee, if I want an explanation about how does the hand function I would go to a medical doctor, if I want an explanation how does the mind functions I address the devotees or Bhakti Yogis, so they will explain about something that you talk so much about, I am not trying to offend or attack anyone, I am only humbly asking for an answer about a theme that appears many times in your books, conferences and conversations. The mind, you talk about controlling the mind, fix it on Krishna and so on. You say that the Vedic wisdom is a science; therefore I only make a simple question, what is the mind and how does it function? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 "and still they can not answer something so simple.Isn’t that weird?" Actually, who cares what it is when you can cross it(may be thats why they still don't give any answers) The best way to cross it is: chanting Maha mantra. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 then take my suggestion about the google search and see what you come up with and bring it back here to discuss because apparently no one here is either able to help you in the way you want or inclined to help you. Help us to help you. I apologize for any misunderstandings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I think you have exposed a 'weakness'in this parampara's metaphysics concerning the mind. That is a good thing as it will make people become more aware of the subject. But we should take into consideration that many advanced devotees have the eyes fixed elsewhere. As they contemplate Krsna-lila more and more they seem to lose interest in the details of this subject which fascinates us. The Theosophical Society seems to have broken the subtle body down quite extensively but I don't know how reliable their conclusions are as their conclusions are impersonal. I hope you also keep the topic going on this board as well. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 another idea for a google search: mind Theosophical Society (but as Theist points out - watch out the impersonal conclusions) subtle body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armisael108 Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I think you have exposed a 'weakness'in this parampara's metaphysics concerning the mind. That is a good thing as it will make people become more aware of the subject. ********* You are quite right, ever since I joined ISKCON I've been asking myself this same question that our guest has asked about the mind. Nobody I met gave me an answer I wanted. As our guest, I was wondering about the mind because I'm supposed to control it. That's why my 'best' answer on the mind was that energetic thingy. I've realized with the years is that even though I may find the answer of what is the mind, the process of controlling the mind, given by the guru, surpasses the knowledge of what is the mind. But I'm still interested in knowing what is the mind because I know I associate with it too much /images/graemlins/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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