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Celibacy blocks sexual energy. Blocked energy does not know rules, customs, laws and beleifs. Energy must flow and it will find a way to flow. We either let energy flow the easy way, or it will find a way out the hard way. And so people who are celibating for long are just getting crazy and express (release) their blocked energy in wacky ways.


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((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

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Originally posted by jijaji:

Celibacy blocks sexual energy. Blocked energy does not know rules, customs, laws and beleifs. Energy must flow and it will find a way to flow. We either let energy flow the easy way, or it will find a way out the hard way. And so people who are celibating for long are just getting crazy and express (release) their blocked energy in wacky ways.


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You seem to be the resident iconoclast at this forum.Its good to have beliefs shaken up and challenged from time to time.You offer a valuable service.


By just concentrating on celibacy blocking energy you are addressing only part of the picture.


Surely that same energy needs to be redirected.Celibacy is also for transmuting that energy for a higher purpose.


It certainly is not a goal in and of its self.


Are you suggesting that all who are celibate are repressed?That is the flip side of the same coin of those that say all who are celibate are advanced, isn't it?



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Now, I'll have to post something on the alternate flows of energy here, from Bhagavata 4.8.1 with Bhaktivedanta comments:

<blockquote><center>maitreya uvAca

sanakAdyA nAradaz ca

Rbhur haMso ?ruNir yatiH

naite gRhAn brahma-sutA

hy Avasann Urdhva-retasaH


The great sage Maitreya said: The four great KumAra sages headed by Sanaka, as well as NArada, Rbhu, HaMsa, AruNi and Yati, all sons of BrahmA did not live at home, but became Urdhva-retA, or naiSThika-brahmacArIs, unadulterated celibates.


PURPORT: "The system of brahmacarya has been current since the birth of Brahma. A section of the population, especially male, did not marry at all. Instead of allowing their semen to be driven downwards, they used to lift the semen up to the brain. They are called urdhva-retasah, those who lift up. Semen is so important that if, by the yogic process, one can lift the semen up to the brain, he can perform wonderful work, one's memory is enabled to act very swiftly, and the duration of life is increased."

</blockquote>How likes you? Posted Image



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Sri Rupa Goswami, and other great saints, have enumerated six urges we must overcome to advance spiritually. The six are vaca vega (the urges of speach), manasa vega (the urges of the mind), krodha vega (the urges of anger), jihva vega (the urges of the tongue), udara vega (the urges of the belly), and upastha vega (the urges of the genitals). It is not possible to artificially free oneself from these material urges. Only by experiencing a higher spiritual happiness can one lose taste for the lower material urges.


The idea that celibacy blocks sexual energy is just a nonsensical idea. Through celibacy, Virya is directed upward and transforms to Ojas (the energy of the nonphysical body). This Ojas is later transformed to Tejas, spiritual energy.


I would suggest one read Swami Shivananda's book on Brahmacharya.


[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-03-2002).]

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Looks like Jijaji got some of his extreme notions from misguided pop psychologists. Perhaps he just wants to have his cake and eat it too: To reap the benefits of a discipline without adhering to any strictures whatsoever - kind of like someone who tries to lose weight by dieting and then cheating on the side and in the end only gaining more weight.


Heck, even professional athletes take advantage of the increased performance afforded by celibacy before an event. That is no big secret.


One should not make the mistake of confusing pathological suppression of libido with spiritual practices that involve abstinence.


Please do not trot out fallen Catholic priests as an example, because those have clearly been cases of pathologies that were already present in those individuals prior to joining the clergy and taking vows of celibacy. There are plenty of counter examples of celibate monks that never had any problems as a result. It may not be realistic for most people, but that does not make it harmful for those that are capable.




[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-03-2002).]

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Hmm. Freud's theory was that all psychic energy (libido) was sexual in origin. If all this energy is used for its original purpose, then the human being remains a rather dismal creature.


Through sublimation, the psychic energy is rechanneled into other areas, allowing all kinds of human cultural achievements.


Freud's objection was that the Superego, or the compartment of the subconscious that oversees the sublimation of the Id, or instinct, or the raw, unrefined Libido, had a tendency to become overdeveloped, which created other problems. So Freud, like so many others, was merely pointing out that a middle way is best for most.


Freud recognized that religion is closely tied to the development of the Superego--indeed, to Freud, God is in some sort the symbolic representation of the Superego. Religion is often association to tight controls on sexuality, and often praises absolute sublimation (celibacy) as the path to spirituality: complete dissociation of mind from body.


Freud's ideas were probably the most influential in 20th century secularization of the human psyche, and transformed the way we think about sexuality today. Even so, we should be aware that Freud was not, as so many think, a libertarian, but rather a secularizer of the Superego.





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Originally posted by theist:

Surely that same energy needs to be redirected.Celibacy is also for transmuting that energy for a higher purpose.


I am thinking this desire to manipulate the natrual energy of the sex is being the foundation of many Tantic practices. Is this so?



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Originally posted by Shashi:

I am thinking this desire to manipulate the natrual energy of the sex is being the foundation of many Tantic practices. Is this so?





That is what I hear can be done.Or that same passionate energy can be used in karma-yoga etc.also.


You are right about jijaji's inference of baiting.He is trying to bait us into responses so we can assume the most provocative term is what was meant.


Jagat don't play so innocent.


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Originally posted by theist:

You are right about jijaji's inference of baiting.He is trying to bait us into responses so we can assume the most provocative term is what was meant.


Jagat don't play so innocent.

If he was playing innocent, it was to create a pretense for his (not-so-innocent) pun.


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Originally posted by theist:



That is what I hear can be done.Or that same passionate energy can be used in karma-yoga etc.also.


You are right about jijaji's inference of baiting.He is trying to bait us into responses so we can assume the most provocative term is what was meant.


Jagat don't play so innocent.

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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-03-2002).]

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Is it true that one cannot attain enlightenment unless one is celibate? My friend was telling me that all the enlightened masters have been celibate and that with celibacy, sexual energy gets stored and without that you can’t be enlightened. Do you recommend celibacy?



I do not generally recommend the practice of celibacy because it is not necessary for enlightenment, and for most people, it only produces strain. The goal of celibacy is to raise the ojas, the subtle essence of sexual energy, up from the base chakra to the crown chakra where the male and female energies unite and create an illuminated divine awakening. However, sexual abstinence does not guarantee that you are transmuting sexual energy into divine love. Too often I have seen the ideal of celibacy become a stalking horse for submerged judgements that sex itself is bad, and people remain intrenched in obsolete beliefs. Instead of elevating consciousness to perfect love, all you are doing is engaging in a struggle between your ideal self and your desire nature leaving you tired and frustrated.


If one is naturally absorbed in the love of God without any thought of sex, that is wonderful, and that kind of nature is sometimes found in those rare souls who become enlightened masters. Celibacy in that case is a state of awareness, not a practice. For most of us, our natures lead us to share love through intimate relationships, and not just with God or humanity as a whole, and this path also leads to enlightenment.


I certainly don’t advocate sexual promiscuity or indulgence, but I believe sexual pleasure is a wonderful gift from God. In the context of awakening divine love, sex is not an impediment, but rather, it can serve to raise our ojas up to the crown chakra for our enlightenment. When two people use sex to experience the divine within each other, then sex itself becomes a gateway to spiritual illumination.


Deepak Chopra


from chopra.com


I pretty much agree with this attitude expressed here.



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"Brahmacharya or spotless chastity is the best of all penances; a celibate of such spotless chastity is not a human being, but a god indeed... To the celibate who conserves the semen with great efforts, what is there unattainable in this world ? By the power of the composure of the semen, one will become just like Myself."


- Sri Sankaracharya


Excerpts from Brahmacharya by Swami Sivananda


Brahmacharya is a divine word. It is the sum and substance of Yoga. Brahmacharya is the Achara or conduct by which you attain or reach Brahman (God). It is life in the Absolute. It is movement towards God or the Atman (Self).


Brahmacharya is absolute freedom from sexual thoughts and desires. It is the vow of celibacy. It is control of all the senses in thought, word and deed.


Brahmacharya is not mere bachelorhood. There should be strict abstinence not merely from sexual intercourse but also from auto-erotic manifestations, from masturbation, from homosexual acts and from all perverse sexual practices. It must further involve a permanent abstention from indulgence in erotic imagination and voluptuous reverie.


In a narrow sense, Brahmacharya is celibacy. In a broad sense, it is absolute control of all the senses. The door of Nirvana (liberation) or perfection is complete Brahmacharya.


Celibacy is to a Yogi what electricity is to an electric bulb. Without celibacy no spiritual progress is possible. It is a potent weapon and shield to wage war against the internal evil forces of lust, anger and greed. It serves as a gateway for the bliss beyond, and opens the door of liberation. It contributes perennial joy and uninterrupted bliss. It is the only key to open the Sushumna (the chief among astral tubes in the human body running inside the spinal column) and awaken the Kundalini (the primordial cosmic energy located in the individual).


There cannot be any language without words. You cannot draw a picture without a canvas or a wall. You cannot write anything without paper. Even so, you cannot have health and spiritual life without celibacy.


An established celibate will not feel any difference in touching the opposite sex, a piece of paper, a block of wood, or a piece of stone. A true celibate only can cultivate Bhakti (devotion). A true celibate only can practice Yoga. A true celibate only can acquire jnana (wisdom).


Brahmacharya is meant both for men and women. Bhishma, Hanuman, Lakshmana, Jesus, Mirabai, Sulabha and Gargi were all celibates.




One of the students of Dhanvantari approached his teacher after finishing his full course of Ayurveda (the ancient Indian science of medicine) and asked: "O Bhagavan, kindly let me know the secret of health now."


Dhanvantari replied: "This seminal energy is verily the Atman. The secret of health lies in preservation of this vital force. He who wastes this vital and precious energy cannot have physical, mental, moral and spiritual development."


Veerya (seminal energy) is God in motion. Veerya is dynamic will. Veerya is soul-force. Veerya is the essence of life, thought, intelligence and consciousness. Always remember this.


The vital energy, Veerya which supports your life, which is the Prana (life-force) of Pranas, which shines in your sparkling eyes, which beams in your shining cheeks, is a great treasure to you. It is the quintessence of blood.


From food, chyle is manufactured; out of chyle comes blood; out of blood comes flesh; out of flesh comes fat; out of fat comes marrow; out of marrow comes semen. Semen is the last essence. It is the essence of essences.


Just as sugar pervades sugar-cane and butter pervades milk, so also semen pervades the whole body. It exists in a subtle form throughout the body. It is withdrawn and elaborated in a gross form in the sexual organs under the influence of the sexual will and sexual excitement.




When a man is excited by passion, the Prana is set in motion. The vital air or Prana moves the internal sap or semen. The semen is put into motion. It falls downwards, just as the clouds burst into the rain water; just as the fruits, flowers, and leaves of the tree drop down by the force of the blowing winds.


Note carefully the evil after-effects, once the Veerya is lost. Prana gets unsteady. It gets agitated.. The body and mind refuse to work energetically. There is physical and mental lethargy. Exhaustion and weakness are experienced. You have to take recourse to milk , fruits and other articles to make good the loss of energy. Remember, these articles can never, never repair loss. Bad memory, premature old age, impotence, various sorts of eye diseases and nervous diseases are attributable to the heavy loss of this vital fluid.


Those who have lost much of their semen become easily irritated. They lose their balance of mind quickly. Little things upset them. Those who have not observed the vow of celibacy become slaves of anger, laziness and fear. If you do not have your senses under control, you venture to do foolish actions which even children will not dare to do.


Man, with his boasted intellect, has to learn lessons from birds and animals. Even animals have more self-control than men. It is only the so-called man who has degraded himself much by indulgence. At the heat of sexual excitement, he repeats the same ignoble act again and again. He has not a bit of self-control. He is an absolute slave to passion. He is a puppet in the hands of passion. Like rabbits he procreates and brings forth countless children to swell up the number of beggars in the world. Lions, elephants, bulls and other powerful animals have better self-control than men. Lions cohabit only once in a year. After conception, the female animals will never allow the male animal to approach them till the young ones are weaned and they themselves become healthy and strong. Man only violates the laws of nature and consequently suffers from innumerable diseases. He has degenerated to a level far lower than that of animals in this respect.


Indulgence in the sexual act is exhausting to the female system and a drain upon their vitality as in the case of man. The nervous strain it imposes is very great indeed. The female system, being more delicate and high-strung, is often more affected than that of the male.




What do we see these days? Boys and girls, men and women are drowned in the ocean of impure thoughts, lustful desires and little sensual pleasures. It is highly deplorable indeed. It is shocking to hear some of the stories of boys. Many college boys have come to me and personally narrated their pitiable lives. Their power of discrimination has been lost owing to sexual excitement and lustful intoxication. Why do you lose the energy that has taken many weeks and months to gain for the sake of a little, momentary sensual pleasure?


In olden days, boys of the Gurukula (ancient educational system of India) were healthy and strong. Today there is no real ethical culture in modern schools and colleges. The present system of education needs a drastic and radical change. Modern civilization has enfeebled our boys and girls. They lead an artificial life. Children beget children. There is racial degeneration. It is impossible to be strong and healthy unless males and females, boys and girls, try their level best to keep up Brahmacharya or the vow of celibacy.


Pure air, pure water, wholesome food, physical exercise, outdoor games like tennis - all contribute to the maintenance of good health, strength and a high standard of vigour and vitality. There are, indeed, many ways to gain health and strength. These ways are, doubtless, indispensable requisite. But, celibacy is the most important of all. It is the only specific that keeps up true manliness.




The practice of celibacy is not attended with any danger or disease, or undesirable results such as the various sorts of 'complex' wrongly attributed by the Western psychologists. They have no practical knowledge of the subject on hand. They have a wrong and ill-founded imagination that the ungratified sex-energy assumes the various forms of 'complex' such as touch-phobia. The complex is due to some other causes. It is a morbid state of mind due to excessive jealousy, hatred, anger, worry, and depression brought about by various causes.


On the contrary, even a little of self-restraint or a little practice of continence is an ideal 'pick-me-up'. It gives inner strength and peace of mind. It invigorates the mind and nerves. It helps to conserve physical and mental energy. It augments memory, will force, and brain power. It bestows tremendous strength, vigour, and vitality. It renovates the system or constitution, rebuilds the cells and tissues, energizes digestion, and gives power to face the difficulties in the daily battle of life. One who has perfect control over sexual energy attains power unobtainable by another means.


If a man leads a life of celibacy even in his householder's life and has copulation occasionally for the sake of progeny only, he can bring forth healthy, intelligent, strong, beautiful, self-sacrificing children. The ascetics and saviours of ancient India, when married, used to follow this excellent rule very carefully for this purpose, and also used to teach by example and practice how to lead a life of a Brahmachari even as a householder.


It is worth repeating that a true celibate possesses tremendous energy, a clear brain, gigantic will-power, bold understanding, retentive memory and good Vichara Sakti (power of enquiry). Swami Dayananda stopped the carriage of a Maharaja (great king). He broke the sword with his hands. This was due to his power of celibacy. All the spiritual leaders have been true celibates. Jesus, Sankara, Jnana Deva and Samarth Ramdas were all celibates.




Diet plays a prominent part in keeping up celibacy. There are different compartments in the brain and each food produces its own effect on each compartment and of the general system. A confection of sparrow produces aphrodisiac effect. It directly stimulates the reproductive organs. Garlic, onions, meat, fish, and eggs stimulate passion.


Give proper attention to food. Have moderation in diet. Take Sattvic (pure) food such as milk, fruits, and wheat. Occasional fasting checks passion, calms the emotions, controls the Indriyas (senses), and helps in the practice of celibacy.




People talk of celibacy; but practical men are rare, indeed. A life of continence is really beset with difficulties.


It is easy to tame a tiger or a lion or an elephant. It is easy to play with a cobra. It is easy to walk over the fire. It is easy to uproot the Himalayas. It is easy to get victory in the battlefield. But, it is difficult to eradicate lust.


You need not despair even a bit, however. Have faith in God, in His Name and in His grace. You are bound to succeed if you have faith in Him. Mere human effort alone will not suffice. The divine grace is needed. Lust cannot be completely uprooted from the mind except by the grace of the Lord. God helps those who help themselves.


Lack of spiritual Sadhana is the main cause for all sexual attractions. Mere theoretical abstention from sensuality will not bring you good results. You must mercilessly cut off all formalities in social life and lead a pious life. Leniency to internal lower tendencies will land you in the region of suffering. Excuse will not be of use in this respect. You must be sincere in your purpose for the sublime life of spirituality. Half-heartedness will leave you in your old state of misery.




Do not think of the opposite sex. Do not look at the opposite sex. Looking at the opposite sex will create desire to talk to them. Talking will create a desire to touch them. Eventually you will have an impure mind and will fall a victim. Therefore never look at the opposite sex. Never talk intimately with them. Do not be familiar with them.


The look must be perfectly chaste and pure. Lord Jesus says: "If you have a lustful look, you have already committed adultery in the heart." Lustful look, lustful thinking, wet-dreams are all failures or breaks in celibacy. Be chaste in your look. Be chaste in your talk. See mother in all women. Cultivate sublime, divine thoughts. Repeat the Lord's Name and meditate regularly. You will be established in celibacy.


There are four processes in the practice of celibacy. First control the sex-impulse and sex-Vasana (sex-desire). Then practice conservation of sex-energy. Shut out all holes through which energy leaks. Then divert the conserved energy into proper spiritual channels through Japa, Kirtan, selfless service, Pranayama (practice of breath-control), study, vigilance, self-analysis, introspection and Vichara. Then have conversion or sublimation of the sex-energy. Let it be converted into Ojas (spiritual energy) or Brahma-tejas (spiritual halo) through constant meditation or Brahma-Chintana (remembrance of God).


According to Yogic science, semen exists in a subtle form throughout the whole body. It is found in a subtle state in all the cells of the body. It is withdrawn and elaborated into a gross form in the sexual organ under the influence of the sexual will and sexual excitement. An Oordhvareta Yogi (one who has stored up the seminal energy in the brain after sublimating the same into spiritual energy) not only converts the semen into Ojas, but checks through his Yogic power, through purity in thought, word and deed, the very formation of semen by the secretory cells or testes or seeds. This is a great secret. Allopaths believe that even in an Oordhvareta Yogi, the formation of semen goes on incessantly and that the fluid is reabsorbed into the blood. This is a mistake. They do not understand the inner Yogic secrets and mysteries. They are in the dark. Their Drishti or vision is concerned with the gross things of the universe. The Yogi penetrates into the subtle hidden nature of things through Yogic Chaksu or the inner vision of wisdom. The Yogi gets control over the astral nature of semen and thereby prevents the formation of the very fluid itself.




You will have to be very careful of reaction. The senses that are put under restraint for some months, or for one or two years, become rebellious if you are not always vigilant and careful. They revolt and drag you out when opportunities arise. Some people, who observe celibacy for one or two years, become more passionate and waste the energy considerably in the end. Some people become incorrigible, moral wrecks also.


You must not labour under the delusion that you have eradicated lust completely by adjusting the diet a bit, by practicing Pranayama, and by doing a little Japa, and that you have nothing more to do. Temptation may overcome you at any moment. Eternal vigilance and rigorous Sadhana are very essential.


You may be able to stop copulation for months and years, but there should not be any sexual craving or attraction for the opposite sex.


The state of mental celibacy must be kept up even amidst temptations and sickness. Then only you are safe. The senses begin to revolt during times of ailment and also when you come in contact with sense-objects.


You cannot attain perfect celibacy by limited effort. Just as a machine-gun is necessary to kill a powerful enemy, so also, constant, rigorous and powerful Sadhana is necessary to annihilate this powerful enemy, lust. You must not be puffed up with pride for your little achievement in celibacy. If you are put to test, you will hopelessly fail. You must be ever conscious of your shortcomings and you must constantly strive to get rid of them. The highest effort is necessary. Then you will have sanguine success in this direction.


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So we seem to be salivating every time the bell rings? Kill the conditioning. Sublimate; create something - those juices are not just for creating progeny.


One might try to rationalize all the pushings, but that is not tapasya. The mind is either our friend or enemy. Sex is really just disgusting.

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Let us consider a person who does not do what many others enjoy doing. Celibates are one example of such people. I agree that if they are forcibly restraining themselves, then it may be harmful for them in the long run. But, can we claim that they really are restraining themselves by force? Can't it be that they really do not find any enjoyment in such things? Scriptures mentioned about sages who used to worship in forests away and their life was very disciplined. Can we claim that the discipline was only show off and in their heart they wanted to enjoy all those things that they were avoiding? Can't it be that they really enjoyed following the disciplined life? Why do we think that just because we like something, everybody must be liking it?


[This message has been edited by Avinash (edited 05-04-2002).]

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Clerical Celibacy and Pedophilic Priests


In recent years, reports of Catholic priests sexually molesting children have come to light in virtually every major U.S. city. The victims are often emotionally scarred for decades.


There is convincing evidence that this serious and widespread problem is caused, at least in part, by the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and other overly repressive Church doctrines regarding sexuality. Thus, persons concerned about the problem of clergy abuse of children should urge Catholic leaders to reexamine and modify their teachings about sex.


Desmond Morris' classic book on human behavior, The Naked Ape, reports that homosexual behavior is often "seen in situations where the ideal sexual object (a member of the opposite sex) is unavailable. This applies in many groups of animals."


Morris goes on to state: "Similar situations occur with high frequency in our own species and the response is much the same. If either males or females cannot for some reason obtain sexual access to their opposite members, they will find sexual outlets in other ways."


Likewise, psychiatrist and ex-priest A. W. Richard Sipe relates: "Doctor Lewis Hill, former medical director of Sheppard and Enoch Pratt Hospital in Towson, Maryland, used to tell his resident psychiatrists, 'Man is a loving animal, and he is going to love whatever he is near.' The sexual histories of farm boys frequently recorded passing involvements with animals."


These findings indicate that Catholic priests, who are required by their Church to remain celibate and taught to abhor sexual relationships with women, might in some cases seek outlets for their sexuality in other activities. The behavior could include homosexuality or pedophilia.


In fact, statements by Dr. Jay Feierman support a link between sexual repression and pedophilia. As a psychiatrist who has met with hundreds of pedophilic priests at a Catholic treatment center for abusive priests in New Mexico, Feierman is in a position to recognize the connection.


Feierman says that celibacy is not "a natural state for humans to be in." Pointing to the celibacy requirement as part of the cause of clergy abuse of children, he explains: "If you tell a man that he's not allowed to have particular friends, he's not allowed to be affectionate, he's not allowed to be in love, he's not allowed to be a sexual being, you shouldn't be surprised at anything that happens."


Moreover, research by the University of New Hampshire's David Finkelhor, Ph.D., supports those observations. Finkelhor, a recognized expert on the study of sexual abuse of children, has shown that repressive sexual attitudes linked to many religions may predispose some persons toward sexual activities with children.


Dr. John Money, a leading expert on sexual violence who has pioneered treatments for deviate sexuality at Johns Hopkins Medical School, states that people raised in conditions where sex is viewed as evil, and where sexual curiosity is considered a punishable offense, are likely to end up with warped sexual identities. Those surroundings are often produced by conservative religious teachings.


Money describes the harmful effects of such environments as follows: "In girls, often you extinguish the lust completely, so that they can never have an orgasm, and marriage becomes a dreary business where you put up with sex to serve the maternal instinct. In boys, sex gets redirected into abnormal channels." (Emphasis added.)


Money's observations as to the different effects of repressive sexual environments on males and females may explain why pedophilia appears to be a much greater problem among priests than among nuns, who must also take a celibacy vow.


As for males who are isolated for long periods, with restricted social outlets and limited positive sexual development, Sipe adds that "Kinsey and colleagues noted the frequency of homosexual contact 'among ranchmen, cattlemen, prospectors, lumbermen and farming groups in general.'" It is fair to say that many have found similar phenomena in prisons.


And specifically in regard to such "situational homosexuality" among Catholic priests, Sipe asserts: "At times the situation rather than the core sexual orientation of the priest dictates his sexual choice. Many reports in this category are similar. A long-time friendship and isolation in a learning or living circumstance lead to a sexual exchange between friends. Subsequent history and development can reveal an essentially heterosexual orientation and choice."


In view of all the above evidence, it is logical to conclude that if priests were permitted a normal outlet for their "essentially heterosexual orientation and choice," they would be less likely to seek an outlet through pedophilia.


Also relevant is the fact that, contrary to the claims being made by some, the problem of sexual abuse by priests is not unique to modern society but has existed for centuries. In the 16th century, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, opposed the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement, partly because of the harm it caused.


Luther wrote of the Catholic Church's leaders: "They were completely unjustified in forbidding marriage and in burdening the priesthood with the demand of continual celibacy. In doing so they have acted like . . . tyrannical, unholy scoundrels, occasioning all sorts of terrible, ghastly, countless sins against chastity, in which they are caught to this day."


In 1966, psychiatrists Franz Alexander and Sheldon Selesnick described a similar history concerning monasteries: "Centuries of imposed celibacy had not inhibited the erotic drives of monks or nuns, and underground passageways were known to connect some monasteries and nunneries. Townspeople often had to send prostitutes to the monasteries in order to protect the maidens of the village."


More than four hundred years after Luther's time, Catholic priests are still caught committing sexual offenses while most Church leaders disregard possible causes of the problem and continue promoting extremely repressive and unhealthy attitudes toward sex.


Unless the Church stops ignoring the overwhelming evidence of the evils caused by its teachings on sexuality - and modifies those teachings to be consistent with modern scientific knowledge - there will be many more victims severely damaged by sexual abuse committed by Catholic clergy.


Henry David Thoreau stated: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Advocates for victims of sexual assault can strike at the root of this problem by speaking out against the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and its other harmful doctrines concerning sexuality.



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The enlistment of young men and women for lives of celibacy, and the methods of indoctrination and psychological manipulation designed to achieve this end is a breach of their human rights.


The victims are condemned to lives of sexual repression, solitary masturbation and psychological stress They are denied the comfort, both physical and psychological of (a) normal physical relationship(s) with (an)other human being(s) and the potential of raising their own children - participation in the natural generational cycle of life. As a result of this mental cruelty many of the victims themselves become a danger to others - often the children entrusted to their care.


The celibacy of priests and nuns is nothing less than a system of institutionalised sexual abuse - normally of children and young adults, and, like physical sexual abuse, carried out by those they most feel they can trust.


If someone is trying to convince you or indoctrinate you to become a celibate priest or nun you are being sexually abused.


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Thank you for those Desmond Morris quotes. I think the same applies to pedophilia. Homosexuality and pedophilia are often treated as inherent tendencies that come out of the genetic makeup, rather than a response to conditions.


I knew many people in Mayapur who engaged in pedophiliac activity with Gurukula children. There were a few deliberate predators among them, but most were brahmacharis who found the loving intimacy of their relation with children a springboard to sexual relations, which may have started innocently enough.


I am personally not a strong believer in a celibate priesthood, as I have often stated elsewhere. (I made some comments in the Gayatri Mantra thread on Istagosthi.) There are a few "athletes of the spirit" who might engage in absolute chastity, but they are rare and must be very careful in their practice. For the most part, their lives should not be public until they have come to the point in the control of their sexuality that it is no longer an issue. And they should be ready to face the fact that that may never happen.

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Nevertheless, I think you go too far when you call this sexual abuse.


I think you should read, "The History of Celibacy." Here are a couple of reviews:








[This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 05-04-2002).]

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remember I said.."If someone is trying to convince you or indoctrinate you to become a celibate priest or nun you are being sexually abused."


The stress is on someone 'TRYING' to convience you or indoctrinate you to become celibate! That I feel is abusive...now if celibacy happens to someone naturally like the dropping of a leaf, that is different. But to preach, impose, and basically put down sexuality as being unimportant and nothing but base lust is a crime against every human being on this planet!


It is nothing less than ..




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[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 05-04-2002).]

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I also think your linking someone trying to convince someone of the value of celibacy, even if over emphasised, with the terms "sexual abuse"and "ANTI-LIFE" to be misguided.Way too emotive.It has the effect of watering down the terms.



I don't care...the lie of celibacy has destroyed way too many lifes. I say a lie because the celibacy you see practiced by priests and monks in institutions is not natural it is part of a routine, a practice like. Real celibacy is something that happens rarely to those so overwhelmed by the divine, they lose all interest with this side!


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