Horses used for war in India

[Tarun 6]

Bhagavatam was first spoken by Lord Ziva to ParvatI.

Zukadev heard that stealthily.

Second recitation was by Zukadev to Parixit.

But wait!

Zukadev also heard some LIlA while in womb which drew him out.

Talk about superb advertising results sans any need of hype.

SP said 64 crores were slain in 18 days at Kuruxetra.

64 crores = 640KK = 640 million = 1/2 China's population.

An arrow here, a club there, hey! it all adds up!

[gHari 0]

Five lived.

[Avinash 0]

Bhagavatam was first spoken by Lord Ziva to ParvatI.

 

Tarun ji,

I have also heard this. Could you tell where this dialog between Siva and Parvati is mentioned?

 

[Avinash 0]

In verses 16 and 17 of Chapter 20, sanjaya says that the Kaurava army had 100 thousand elephants and for every elephant there were hundred chariots and for every chariot a hundred horsemen.

 

For every horseman ten archers and for every archer ten infantry men with shields ( based on bhagavad gItA by J.A.B. Van Buitenen.)

 

Could you post the verses here?

 

 

[shvu 1]

 

3 possibilities. One, Mahabharat happened in a different yuga and there was a massive destruction afterwords erasing all traces.

Perhaps. Yet, figures like 100 billion men fighting in a place of the size of Kurukshetra does seem unlikely. Also the question of how this story got transferred to this yuga remains unanswered. The MB itself does not say anywhere that it was from a different Yuga.

 

Two, Mahabharat happened in a different plane or dimension and not on this physical earth.

There is no indication of such a possibility in the MB itself. Most/All of the places mentioned in the MB are in North India. It is also possible these places were named based on names people got from an old story such as the MB.

 

Three, there have been obvious interpolations and we need not take these details too seriously. Or should I say all the 3?

The most likely answer and in my opinion, the right answer. Today we have many recensions of the Mahabharata suggesting people had a free hand in modifying/adding stories according to their whims.

 

Itihasas and Puranas were targetted towards the non-scholarly public, because they had no means of gaining spiritual knowledge thru the Vedas. These concepts were presented to them in the form of stories and these stories themselves were made interesting, according to the imagination of the authors. A little magic here and there, some heroism, prayers and spiritual instruction at regular intervals, people who lived for 20,000 years, etc, etc. This is the standard style found in all Itihasas and Puranas.

 

So iti s hardly surprising, these stories have changed over time and exist in mutliple versions.

 

Cheers

 

[Avinash 0]

Also, I feel that some of the verses should not be taken literally, because the author used poetic license. To give just one example, it is mentioned in Bhagwatam that when Sukdev was leaving his house, then his father Ved Vyasa called his name. The trees responded by calling Sukdev's name.

 

I think that there was echo from trees (though I may be wrong). Irrespective of whether or not the author knew why echo happens, he must have observed many times that when you should near trees, walls etc., then you hear your voice back.

 

If the author had written that the voice of Ved Vyasa got reflected from the trees, then it would sound very dull. But saying that the trees responded to Ved Vyasa, sounds very poetic.

[Avinash 0]

Possible reasons for such unrealistic numbers are a wild imagination and/or excess Soma juice and/or smoking Pot.

 

Excess soma juice? That is a nice suggestion.

 

Does anyone here know the recipe for soma juice? I would like to prepare that. I won't offer it to gods. I want it for myself.

 

 

[shvu 1]

 

Does anyone here know the recipe for soma juice? I would like to prepare that. I won't offer it to gods. I want it for myself.

If you take it in excess, you can write a new Purana, or modify one of the existing ones to show Sai Baba is an avatar, who was predicted by Vyasa 5000 years back .

 

I may be wrong, but I think it is not clearly known what the Rig-Vedic Soma Juice was. It is obvious it had some alcoholic content in it.

 

Cheers

 

[Avinash 0]

Will it help me in developing softwares fast?

[karthik_v 0]

Avinash:

 

If we believe this, then many incidents mentioned in Mahabharata, Puranas should be assumed to have happened somewhere other than Earth. To take just one example, Bharatvarsa mentioned in Mahabharata can not be the India or any other place on this planet. If that is the case, how are we justified in glorifying the past of this country by quoting verses from our scriptures?

 

May be we are not justified. I think, this reactionary thing is of recent origin. The Eurocentrists demeaned India and its scriptures and misinterpreted our vedas as historical documents. So, Indians are reacting by quoting the same books to show that India had a great past.

 

Shvu:

 

The MB itself does not say anywhere that it was from a different Yuga.

 

Does it not say that it happened in Dwapara yuga? Also, isn't the wait of Bhisma for uttarayana to pass signifying the end of Dwapara yuga?

 

Itihasas and Puranas were targetted towards the non-scholarly public, because they had no means of gaining spiritual knowledge thru the Vedas.

 

That is the view taken by Sri Aurobindo as well. He says that puranas are easily understandable representations of esoteric vedic verses. Of course, this can be debated, but I did find from another scholarly person that Valmiki Ramayana has its roots in Rk veda. Actually the verses themselves are talking of Shri Rama. As per Nilakanta, in Mantra Ramayana, Valmiki clearly states that Ramayana is nothing but an exposition of the 24 bija aksharas of Gayatri mantra. So, may be Sri Aurobindo and Shvu have a point. Please read in detail from this page:

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/

 

Click on Rig vedic Ramayana at the bottom and read all the 5 parts.

 

Avinash:

 

Does anyone here know the recipe for soma juice?

 

Soma wasn't a juice at all; nor an intoxicant. Has anyone ever thought that it could actually signify the third eye? Some very old and esoteric Tamil scriptures like Thirumanthiram talk of Soma that way. Sri Aurobindo talks of Soma that way. I have read the translations and commentary of Sayanacarya and he too hints at it. Sayanacarya was totally into Karma kanda, but even he doesn't suggest that Soma was an intoxicant. I think this entire misconception sprang from the western translators and interpolated puranas. We should also not forget that Aurangazeb commissioned many Brahmins to interpolate puranas. He even had Manusmriti drafted. In fact, the present version of MS doing rounds came from Aurangazeb. There is not one epigraphic record of Manusmriti being deployed by any Indian king. So, given that context, to rely upon smritis or western translators to understand esoteric concepts like Soma is dangerous. We should hear them from a vedic guru.

 

[shvu 1]

 

Does it not say that it happened in Dwapara yuga? Also, isn't the wait of Bhisma for uttarayana to pass signifying the end of Dwapara yuga?

That is correct. I am sorry for the confusion. I meant a different Kalpa. Madhva says there are differences between MB and SB because one of these texts available to us is from a different Kalpa. I was referring to that.

 

That is the view taken by Sri Aurobindo as well. He says that puranas are easily understandable representations of esoteric vedic verses.

The Bhagavatam says that too. It comes somewhere early in the first few chapters.

 

Cheers

 

 

[shvu 1]

 

Will it help me in developing softwares fast?

I think you will not be in a mood to develop software when you are under it's influence. It will certainly make one lose his job very fast.

 

Cheers

 

[jijaji 0]

If you read the Rig Veda you will see that much is said about the process of 'Making' SOMA. It is obviously a drink/beverage of sorts. I mean there ae verses and verses devoted to 'Pressing the Green stalks etc to extract the Juice.' it is just to blatant in it's detail of how to make the 'Some-Drink' itself.

Some pretty lofty speculations here that border Star-Trek ...maybe its the third eye maybe Mahabharata happened on a more subtle plane are all just guesses and yes it goes against the traditional stance that 'Bharata is sacred because it was Blessed with the sacred pastimes of 'God'.

Krishna himself in 'Geeta' says.

"I incarnate in every age"

The Kurushetra battle was betweem those who were descendents from he whom the name 'Bharata was given!

Balaram went on tour along the 'Saraswati' not participating in the battle! Are all those places he visited on 'Another Plane'as well..?

 

*********************************************

How are people to determine what it is they have faith in, when so many loose ended questions are there and they have to guess and develope intricate theories that really exist in the mind only...

 

sorry karthik_v your one of the smartest dudes here..but your theory sounds like ..

 

'Sorta, Kinda, maybe...'

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 04-10-2002).]

[karthik_v 0]

Jijaji:

 

sorry kartikji your one of the smartest dudes here..but your theory sounds like ..'Sorta, Kinda, maybe...'

 

catvaari vaak parimitaa padaani taani vidur brahmana ye manishina:

guha trini nihitaa nengayanti turiyam vaaco manushyaa vadanti [Rk Veda 1:164:45]

 

Translation [based on Sri Aurobindo, but Sayanacarya doesn't differ much]: The hymns are in four tier. Three are cavernous and the fourth expressed in humanly language. Vedic thoughts are expressed in the higher three tiers.

 

So, the vedas themselves mean little if we take their words literally. I read somewhere that the meaning of the vedic verses is whatever is rendered by the realized soul. Doesn't Rk veda itself say Ekam sad vipra: bahuddah vadanti. So, if we look for literal translations, there shall always be loose ends in the vedas. But, if we accept that the vedas are in a metaphorical language and that the purport is hidden to be revealed by a realized soul, then those ends get tied up. Of course, it also implicitly means that we replace empirical logic with faith and reasoning. Since I am not a realized soul, I use a lot of qualifiers like may be.

[jijaji 0]

I'm gonna brew up some 'SOMA' my friends, back soon!

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by jijaji:

I'm gonna brew up some 'SOMA' my friends, back soon!

Jijaji,

 

Is there a way you can teleport it for me?!!! Today, I have been through teleconference [and posting here in between] and it is boring.. In an hour, I am heading off home for lunch..My wife would have made the usual Capatti and sumbzi...A dose of soma before that may add some zing!!!!

 

[Tarun 6]

gHariji: 8 lived: 5 + 3 on opposite side

KRpAcarya, KRtavarma?, AzvatthAmA

Not nearly as unbelievable numbers as Zionist WW2 claims.

Hey! Anything for a buck these days.

[shvu 1]

 

Is there a way you can teleport it for me?!!! Today, I have been through teleconference [and posting here in between] and it is boring.. In an hour, I am heading off home for lunch..My wife would have made the usual Capatti and sumbzi...A dose of soma before that may add some zing!!!!

Are you a chapathi person? Tamil folks are mostly into saambaar and rice, like myself.

 

Cheers

 

[jijaji 0]

The 'Soma' is gone and jijaji is 'Happy'

sorry no extra today guys!

 

namaskar,

 

jijaji somawala

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by shvu:

Are you a chapathi person? Tamil folks are mostly into saambaar and rice, like myself.

 

Cheers

True...but I went to Delhi for job right after university and lived there for 6 years before coming abroad. So, we have both capatti and rice.

 

 

[karthik_v 0]

Originally posted by jijaji:

The 'Soma' is gone and jijaji is 'Happy'

sorry no extra today guys!

 

namaskar,

 

jijaji somawala

 

Jijaji Somawala,

 

That was real selfish of you. I guess that I need to launch my own version of Samudra manthan [this time it is to extract soma instead of amrut]. Since you are not sharing the soma, you will be declared an asura. Just wait, let me find my Vasuki. Shvu, would you like to lend a helping hand [after all 2 Tamils need to support each other!].

[jijaji 0]

your all good people...

 

[gHari 0]

Thank you, Tarun. How you could remember those names, after all these years is truly ... acintya!

[gHari 0]

Wow. I leave for a few hours to rake the yard and when I come back you guys are all cranked up on soma. I know - it's medicinal for your eyes, but judging from the postage here it sure seems to get y'all in a good mood. Jaya Mahadeva!

[Avinash 0]

Who in the heaven has maximum amount of Soma? Is it Indra? If yes, then I will remember to steal Soma from his room, when I go there.

 

But, what if I go to hell?

Can I bribe the gatekeepers of hell? Or, can I bribe Yama himself?