Eastern European devotees in the West

[amanpeter]

Peter/valaya to Kailasa (from another thread):

Have you thought about coming to the west? Many devotees from Eastern Europe, including Russia, have stayed at the ISKCON Toronto temple. They certainly could use the help and you could perfect your English.

 

Let me know if I can be of any assistance to you here. I've known Bhakti-marg Swami, the resident sanyassi, for many years and he is quite accomodating. I believe he is presently on the GBC, also.

Bad news, prabhu. I spoke to Bhakti-marg Swami yesterday and he told me that there have been many problems in ISKCON with eastern European devotees who came to temples in the west. Apparently they tend to lose their original committment and cause some difficulties. I'm starting a separate thread here, because this might be worthy of discussion within our world-wide virtual assembly of devotees.

 

ISKCON Toronto now requires devotees that live in the temple to sign a contract (I'll try to find a scanner), but without the devotional spirit, what can be done? I have much more to say about all of this, however will wait to see if others are interested and if so, what direction the discussion takes.

 

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Maitreya]

Contact?This out to be interesting?More new inventions?

Give us the gist peter.

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by Maitreya:

Contact?This out to be interesting?More new inventions?

Give us the gist peter.

What continues to astound me is how every little thing, that would appear to me common sense for a devotee, must apparently be spelled out in detail. Then `devotees` have to be reminded, cajoled, and/or paid to perform bhakti!

 

Bhakti-marg Swami often seems thoroughly disgusted and I can only sympathize, while the constant struggle goes on. Really, you have to see to believe, prabhu.

 

I have a friend there, an old Indian man 86 years of age, who ends up doing heavy work neglected by others whose job it is to do!

*******************************************

Just edited here since I want to make it clear that I'm not speaking in this post about eastern European or any other particular group.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Maitreya]

No I have seen it, and see it.But it is not just the Eastern European devotees.

 

Someone who lives in a temple paid for by the congregation shouldn't have to be asked to do some basic chores.

 

I won't detail some of the pathetic situations I have seen.

[Yashoda dd]

There are many cases of Indian devotees, also. They join ISKCON from different reasons, and one of them is to get the green card and move to USA.

 

In almost all cases I know, when they move to USA (thanks to ISKCON), they just work hard because they have to start from the beginning, and forget about the service to ISKCON.

[dasanudas]

Ya think they might like to accomodate some Afganis Prabhu I'm sure there are many ready to convert to anything at this point in time. It appears there's a lot of souls playing musical-religions these days, it's definately a ripe field for those prepared to make the sacrifice and give the Gaudiya conception. As much as we might not see eye t eye on a few points it's truly a dream along side some a' the examples proliferating.

Anyone feeling at the fag end of life, a little bored or lethargic, like to do a little kirtan in downtown Kabul.

Hey Maitreya while youre in India you an Jj could pop up to Delhi for some Gita distribution you'll surely see hordes of potential bhaktas looking for a new homeland on the streets over there I've even seen Afghanis in Vrndavan. Gather some devotees addresses before you go, and distribute the all merciful campaign of Patita Pavan.

 

 

 

[kailasa]

Actually still many return back in Russia. As to payment in a temple - brahmacari should work free of charge, the president should not be sentimental and allow that " an old Indian man 86 years of age, who ends up doing heavy work neglected by others whose job it is to do! ", and grihastha who as, if the temple provides them, as is necessary both meal and clothes(clothing), they can not receive money, in the other case how they will live? Certainly many Russian leave, having had an opportunity simplly will better be arranged in a material world, on the other hand here again they leave in maya as simplly and from the third party many Russian emigrants BECOME (!!!) devoted having leaved on West. Many are disappointed, having seen that everywhere one and too. For example Sarasvati Matha in Russia heads Djaganatha das, he became devotee in America. Doing(making) business between America and Russia now it(he) creates a good temple under St. Petersburg.

 

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Yashoda dd:

There are many cases of Indian devotees, also. They join ISKCON from different reasons, and one of them is to get the green card and move to USA...... and forget about the service to ISKCON.

Prabhupad was an "Indian devotee"

who came to the USA

made the ISKCON

serve Krishna

dont forget

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[Yashoda dd]

That is nice, but Srila Prabhupada never thought himself to be Indian. He is a pure devotee, a citizen of the spiritual world.

 

Once when the entry was not allowed to his Western disciples to have a darshan of Jagannath Puri Deities (pujari alowed him only), Srila Prabhupada refused saying "if my disciples are not allowed, I will not go also".

 

 

[Gauracandra]

This is a problem. Many temples receive all sorts of requests to assist devotees in coming to the U.S. But sometimes there can be an ulterior motive. There really is no way of knowing for sure. It is a bit of a predicament.

 

Gauracandra

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

This is a problem. Many temples receive all sorts of requests to assist devotees in coming to the U.S. But sometimes there can be an ulterior motive. There really is no way of knowing for sure. It is a bit of a predicament.

 

Gauracandra

According to Bhakti-marg Swami, who is now one of the two GBC for Canada, many are simply blown away by the cultural/material differences. I wouldn't want to infer duplicity on the part of the devotees who come here, in fact part of the shock is probably finding temple life in the sorrowful state that it often is, in North America at least.

 

I've met more than a few obviously sincere souls who simply couldn't tolerate things any longer, just as I myself cannot. ISKCON Toronto is a nice place to visit, but I don't think you'd want to live there; not for more than a couple of months, anyway.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by amanpeter (edited 09-11-2001).]

[Yashoda dd]

A devotees who decides to change the continent for preaching and because of the instructions, will be challenged and tested.

 

That is why we honor Srila Prabhupada so much: he wanted to stay in bliss, serving his gurudev in safe Vrindavana. He was ready for surprises, and even when he got there, he was so much in distress that he wanted to leave after few months.

 

Westerners who came to India, had a help from Gaudiya Math devotees. When they were building Bombay temple and making Life Members, they went through hell - sleeping outside with rats, some people destroyed their construction, a group of them spent few weeks in jail because of culture differences.

 

It is not a peanut when it comes to preach Lord's message.

[talasiga]

Originally posted by Yashoda dd:

That is nice, but Srila Prabhupada never thought himself to be Indian. He is a pure devotee, a citizen of the spiritual world.

 

Yes and he taught

We are not this body

But, still, some are seeing INDIAN bodies

with GREEN cards and ULTERIOR motives.....

 

 

[amanpeter]

Originally posted by talasiga:

Yes and he taught

We are not this body

But, still, some are seeing INDIAN bodies

with GREEN cards and ULTERIOR motives.....

 

 

It was east Europeans, mostly from former communist nations, that prompted this thread (note the title). I thought that the `ulterior motives` issue had been settled previously. We may not be these bodies, but they must somehow be maintained and it is only natural for those whose spiritual conciousness is not quite as finely honed as yours to be influenced by western material prosperity.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

I think you'd be surprised, but its not just full-time devotees. Many lifemembers approach temple presidents etc... trying to get signoffs to stay in the country to make money. I know of a few instances where this has happened.

 

As for devotees from foreign countries coming over, I agree most are sincere. But once they are here, its difficult being in a foreign land. Plus there are many opportunities to materially advance.

 

Gauracandra