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My perception of Lord Shiva is that He

protects Lord Vishnu`s devotees from the

asuras` harassments led by the latter`s

leader, Maya Danava. In fact in Srimad

Bhagavatam Canto 7, The Science of God,

there in Chap. Ten it says that Lord Vishnu

equipped Lord Shiva with the paraphernalia

in setting fire the asuras` residences

made of gold, silver, and iron. These

abodes were created by Maya Danava in or-

der to shelter the asuras who sought him

for his protection after they were

defeated by the demigods in a war led by

Lord Brahma.

There is another instance when Lord Shiva

saved the universe by drinking the hala-

hala poison generated from the churning

of the ocean of milk performed by the demi-

gods and the asuras after they made a truce

so that they could generate the nectar

to revive their weary bodies by agreeing

to churn the ocean of milk so they could

generate the nectar that they need to res-

tore their weary bodies after the fighting

between them was over. To generate the

nectar from the ocean of milk, they used

Vasuki as the rope which they tied around

the Mandara mountain, where Lord Vishnu

resides, kept afloat on the Tortoise( an

incarnation of God) back. By pulling Va-

suki`s tail and head back and forth moved

the Mandara mountain to stir the ocean of

milk thereby producing the nectar not

knowing that a poison, halahala, was gene-

rated from it that threatened the safety

of the inhabitants in the universe. With

Uma`s ( Lord Shiva`s wife) persmission,

Lord Shiva drank the poison, reduced in

such a way it could be accommodated in His

hand, without much ado, creating only a

bluish line on His neck.

If these stories are not proofs to convince

one who doesn`t believe that Lord Shiva is

the protector of Lord Vishnu`s devotees,

then there is not much to convince anyone

that, comparatively, Lord Shiva is the

reflection of Lord Balarama while Lord

Vishnu is the mirror image of Lord Krishna.

Both, Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva, are One

although different in Their qualities, a

philosophy Lord Chaitanya had taught to

His students in order to erase their doubts

regarding Lord Shiva`s supporting role

and Lord Vishnu`s principal role in this

great drama called LIFE.

 

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> The question as to whether Vishnu is greater or Shiva is greater is to me

> a childish problem.The vaishnavites will always speak for Vishnu and

> shaivites for Shiva and each have their corresponding shastras to prove

> their points of view.

 

It is not really a question as to who is greater, it is simply what does the

scripture establish as Para Brahman (the Absolute Truth). Sentiments are

meaningless in this, as they are influenced by our conditioned and faulty

senses and emotions. The Vedanta-sutras tell us: sastra yonitvat. Through the scriptures we can know the Para Brahman. The forms of God are not imagined forms created by man, they are eternal forms revealed to us through the

sabda-brahma, divine sound. If the forms are imagined, then we can keep

President Clinton's picture on our altar and do mantra sadhana: om clinton

namah om clinton namah. But one will have no spiritual revelation or

upliftment by such a man made process. If all forms are the same, then one

should worship Clinton and prove to us the effect is the same. But the

scriptures support no such conclusions.

 

> But what practical difference does it make.I believe that it is the inner

> state of spirituality that is more important than the particular form of

> divinity which one is choosing.

 

Krishna explains this in the Gita very clearly. Whether or not one wishes to

accept Krishna's statements or not is up to each individual, but great

saints and scholars such as Sankara have glorified this ancient text as the

top most of Vedic literature (see Gita Mahatmya by Adi Sankara). In the Gita

Krishna says:

 

yanti deva-vrata devan

pitrin yanti pitri-vratah

bhutani yanti bhutejya

yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam

 

"Those who worship the Devas go to the abode of the Devas. Those who worship the ancestors (Pitrus) go to the abode of the ancestors [Pitru-loka]. Those who worship ghosts and spirits will go to the abode of the ghosts. And those who worship Me will come to Me."

 

Krishna never says all the paths lead to the same goal. He clearly says, "If you worship these people, you go to them. If you worship those people you go to them. But if you worship me you come to Me."

 

Krishna describes His abode:

 

yad gatva na nivartante

tad dhama paramam mama

 

"Those who reach My supreme abode never return to this material world."

 

And he described the abode of the Devas:

 

te tam bhuktva svarga-lokam visalam

ksine punye martya-lokam visanti

 

"When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the results of thier pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again."

 

Again, Krishna does not say the destinations are the same. He clearly says those who come to Me do not return to this material world, but those who go to the Deva loka again return to martya-loka, the abode of birth and death.

 

Of course it may be popular and broad minded to say all paths lead to the same goal, but Krishna never said that. He uses the word avidhi-purvakam to describe indirect processes. Everyone must indirectly worship Krishna, because He is the source of everything. Even a greedy man must appreciate and be attracted to Krishna, because his goal, money, is an expansion of the Lord's energies. He is actually appreciating God's energies, thus indirectly he is appreciating God. But it is avidhi-purvakam.

 

This is why God is referred to as Krishna (All Atractive). Whatever there is that we are attracted by (wealth, fame, strength, knowledge, beauty, or renunciation) is nothing but a minor aspect of God's energies.

 

J.N.Das,

 

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Lord Vishnu is the Ultimate God. He has no birth or death. He takes avatar to protect His devotees. Every time He takes avatar the evil doers also get punished. All other gods have end where as Vishnu has no end. He is eternal. By performing yagjas we can attain other gods' position. Also the Nirguna of lord Vishnu shows He is the ultimate God. Shiva has Anger; that is why He is called Rudra. Brahma has pride. only Vishnu is beyond all the gunas. He gives time for people who do bad to others to get changed.That is why in this age of Kali yuga we see people who flourish inspite of their sins. All the sinners will be surely punished at the end if not in this janma in other janmas , as this is not the last janma for them. What Krishna said in Gita are practiced by Vishnu as Rama and Krishna. He never said anything which He did not do. Till today He is protecting those who surrender to Him with full faith. He wants our pure devotion and nothing else. There is no God equal to lord Vishnu.

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Ghosts, goblins and demons worship Shiva. He applies ash all over His body. He dresses up in tiger skin, rides a buffalo, wears a snake as a garland, destroys with his trisulam and plays udukkai. His presence gives material auspiciousness which is useless for a devotee. He is consumed by His energies. Shakti occupies half His body. He is neither male nor female. As Artha Nareeswarar, (S)He is neuter.

 

It is interesting that Lord Caitanya visited His temples. And Raghavendra Swami of the Madhwa line worshipped His Linga rUpam. This is in the mantrAlayam. It is not open to public view but abhishekam for it is performed by the madhwas there.

 

 

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Both Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva are like milk turning into yourgart curd .

When Lord Krishna expands to preside over the mode of Tamas he becomes Lord Shiva as milk is transfer to yourgart curd by the action of an agent.

Both are milk one being produced by another but when milk become yourgart curd it can not be changed back into milk.

and when Lord Krishna expands to preform service in mangnement of material nature and becomes Lord Shiva He does not change back.

 

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Right now, I don't have the source of this Sloka, but I have read this Sloka:

 

"VAISHNAVANAM YATHA SHAMBHU"

 

It means that Shiva (Shambhu) is the greatest and first among Vaishnavas. Thus, it is understood that we should not commit any offense to Lord Shiva, because if we do so, we will be doing Vaishnava Aparadha (Offenses to Vaishnava). When we see Lord Shiva, it is better to see Him as a devotee of Vishnu (because the sentence above signifies it).

 

By doing so, we will be pleasing Krishna ( because we are pleasing the greatest among Vaishnavas - Lord Shiva).

 

If anyone could give the source of this sloka, I'll be very much grateful. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

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All personalities are to be respected.Lord Shiva is a devotee.Nowdays out of fear or some material need Hindus are worshipping demigods.Result is they have no love for God and remain in birth and death.

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Originally posted by jndas:

 

yanti deva-vrata devan

pitrin yanti pitri-vratah

bhutani yanti bhutejya

yanti mad-yajino 'pi mam

 

"Those who worship the Devas go to the abode of the Devas. Those who worship the ancestors (Pitrus) go to the abode of the ancestors [Pitru-loka]. Those who worship ghosts and spirits will go to the abode of the ghosts. And those who worship Me will come to Me."

 

Respected JNDas,

My doubt is whether worshiping is left to individual choice? --

I believe that one's worshiping, believing, or one's drive to do certain things all depend on his prarabdha karma i.e, his level of spiritual attainment. In the sanscrti dictionary the other name given to prarbda karma is deva. In other words deva guides the destiny of people. I also feel that as one's karma ripens one will become deva itself.

 

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Originally posted by PN Prasad:

Right now, I don't have the source of this Sloka, but I have read this Sloka:

 

"VAISHNAVANAM YATHA SHAMBHU"

 

It means that Shiva (Shambhu) is the greatest and first among Vaishnavas. Thus, it is understood that we should not commit any offense to Lord Shiva, because if we do so, we will be doing Vaishnava Aparadha (Offenses to Vaishnava). When we see Lord Shiva, it is better to see Him as a devotee of Vishnu (because the sentence above signifies it).

 

By doing so, we will be pleasing Krishna ( because we are pleasing the greatest among Vaishnavas - Lord Shiva).

 

If anyone could give the source of this sloka, I'll be very much grateful. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

<font color="red">nimnagAnAM yathA gaMgA devAnAm acyuto yathA

vaiSNavAnAM yathA zambhuH purANAnAm idaM tathA

kSetrANAM caiva sarveSAM yathA kAzI hyonuttamA

tathA purANa vratAnAM zrI mad bhAgavataM dvijAH</font>

 

(Srimad Bhagavatam 12.13.17)

 

Just as the celestial Ganges is the most Holy among all the flowing

rivers,

just as Lord Krishna is the Supreme among all Divine Personalties,

just as Lord Siva is the most Exalted Lover of Vishnu,

just as the City of Kasi is the most Sacred among all Holy places,

Srimad Bhagavatam is also the most fulfilling vow as well as the most

elevated Scripture among all other auspicious Puranas.

 

In the Padma Purana, it is said:

 

<font color="blue">aradhananam sarvesam

visnor aradhanam param

tasmat parataram devi

tadiyanam samarcanam</font>

 

Once, Parvati-devi asked Lord Siva,

"Of all kinds of worship, whose

worship is best?"

Then, Lord Siva told her plainly, "The worship and devotional service of Lord Narayana, Visnu, is the highest."

 

Then Parvati became a little mortified and disappointed, thinking, "But I

am serving Siva, so I hold a lower position."

 

Then the next line came - <font color="red"> tasmat parataram devi tadiyanam samarcanam.

 

"But higher than the worship of Narayana is worship of the devotees of Lord Narayana. That is even greater than devotion to the Lord Himself." </font>

 

Then, Parvati smiled, thinking, "Then I am serving the devotee of the Lord.

Siva is a devotee: vaisnavanam yatha sambhuh. So, I am doing the best thing."

 

This is also confirrned by Krsna, in the Adi Purana :

 

<font color="blue">ye me bhakta-janah partha

ne me bhaktas ca te janah

mad bhaktanam ca ye bhaktas

te me bhaktatama matah</font>

 

"Those who worship Me directly are not real devotees; real devotees are those who are devoted to My devotees."

 

 

hari om! om namaha shivaye!

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Originally posted by ram:

It is interesting that Lord Caitanya visited His temples. And Raghavendra Swami of the Madhwa line worshipped His Linga rUpam. This is in the mantrAlayam. It is not open to public view but abhishekam for it is performed by the madhwas there.

 

 

<center>Posted Image</center>

 

 

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Ghosts, goblins and demons worship Shiva. He applies ash all over His body. He dresses up in tiger skin, rides a buffalo, wears a snake as a garland, destroys with his trisulam and plays udukkai. His presence gives material auspiciousness which is useless for a devotee. He is consumed by His energies. Shakti occupies half His body. He is neither male nor female. As Artha Nareeswarar, (S)He is neuter.

I suspect that vaishnavas conceive the paradox (skt. paradarsha?) to shiva. I visited an anti-aryan site which mentions shiva as a aboriginal god. Do you think the relat. of shiva & rudra is parallel to that of apollo & helios (hylias? - surya).

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Ram says: "Ghosts, goblins and demons worship Shiva."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rama, Hanuman, and Arjuna (amongst others) all worshipped Shiva in the form of the Shiva Lingam (in Ramayana, Mahabarata etc). According to Ram's 'logic', that would make Rama, Hanuman and Arjuna either ghosts, goblins, or demons. Do you agree 'Ram'?

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Originally posted by shivaji:

Ram says: "Ghosts, goblins and demons worship Shiva."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rama, Hanuman, and Arjuna (amongst others) all worshipped Shiva in the form of the Shiva Lingam (in Ramayana, Mahabarata etc). According to Ram's 'logic', that would make Rama, Hanuman and Arjuna either ghosts, goblins, or demons. Do you agree 'Ram'?

Here is more to back up this statement regarding the worship of Bhagavan Shankar:

 

1. Puranas have described that the consort of Lord Vishnu, Lakshmi devi herself worshipped Lord Shiva, even offering her own bosom in place of lotus flowers, and thus the 'bael' fruit and tree had become very dear to Shiva.

 

2. Lord Rama also worshipped Shiva at Ramesvara and saints wrote that he too offered his lotus eyes to Shiva as a substitute for lotus flowers.

 

3. Mother Sitadevi worshipped the consort of Lord Shiva, Gauridevi and Shiva before the 'bow breaking' at her 'Swayamvara'.

 

4. Queen Rukmini worshipped Gauridevi, the consort (Svarupa shakti) of Lord Shiva prior to Lord Krishna's arrival at her wedding.

 

5. So did the Gopis of Vraja at Katyayani (Consort of Lord Shiva) Vrata.

 

6. Lord Caitanya had also met his consort Lakshmipriya devi and other maiden performing worship to Lord Shiva on the banks of Ganges and blessed them accordingly proving the oneness of their Lordships.

 

7. Saint Vidyapati also wrote in his poems that Sri Radha herself prayed to Lord Shiva for protection from the 'cupid' and for blessings offering her lotus hands and bosom as a substitute for flowers and fruits.

 

8. In 'Vidagdhamadhavam', Sri Roopa wrote Radhaji going to Gauridevi (consort of Lord Shiva) temple for worship.

 

9. In his "Hamsa Duta' kavya, Roopa goswami wrote Radha Herself worshipping Lord Shiva and praying for Her Beloved's return to Vraja.

 

10. The favorite saint of Mahaprabhu, Jayadeva kaviraja himself prayed to Lord Shiva in 'mangalacarana' of his compositions.

 

Worship of Lord Shiva is a<big> 'bhushana' </big>for all Vaishnavas, so let us not indulge in<big> 'dushana'</big> of Lord Shiva.

 

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Originally posted by xxvvii:

I suspect that vaishnavas conceive the paradox (skt. paradarsha?) to shiva. I visited an anti-aryan site which mentions shiva as a aboriginal god. Do you think the relat. of shiva & rudra is parallel to that of apollo & helios (hylias? - surya).

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Originally posted by sha:

Here is more to back up this statement regarding the worship of Bhagavan Shankar:

 

Good points Sha.

 

In BG, Krishna says something like this : demigod worship is indirect and is ignorance. That demigods cannot offer any thing more than material benefits, which the devotees dont want anyway.

 

How do you reconcile with these statements with the Gita ? Gaudiya vaishnava acharyas did not worship Lord Shiva. Nor do Madhwas or Sri Vaishnavas do.

 

 

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I appreciate Srila Prabhupada's broad minded statements as posted below.An excerpt from Conversations July 9,1975 Chicago

 

Om Sivaya Namah

---------

 

 

Devotee: Srila Prabhupäda, in Winnipeg there is one very pious east Indian man who for many years has been worshiping somewhat, worshiping Lord Siva. And his wife is also a very quite chaste woman and sincere follower—and so were her parents—of Lord Siva. And he is reading your Bhagavad-gétä. He visits our temple. And I have given him the first volume of Canto Four which discusses Lord Siva a great deal. And he has read in one of your purports that Krsna is more pleased when you worship His devotee than when you worship Him directly. And Lord Siva is a very great devotee of Krsna. So he has now interpreted that to mean that if he worships Lord Siva so nicely, then actually he is pleasing Krsna more. So he is experiencing some difficulty because of this and I’m not quite sure how to instruct him that actually...

 

Prabhupäda: Difficulty?

 

Brahmänanda: That... Our Godbrother has difficulty in replying to this interpretation that Krsna says, “You can please Me by worshiping My devotee,” and Lord Siva is the devotee of Krsna. So therefore this man says, “Then I shall worship Lord Siva. In that way I shall please Krsna.”

 

Prabhupäda: But if he accepts Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, then by worshiping Lord Siva he will be benefited. If he thinks Lord Siva is independent, then he will not be benefited.

 

Devotee (3): I’ve got him to accept that Lord Siva is devotee of Krsna, but there’s no practical instruction in his worldly activities coming.

 

Prabhupäda: No, vaiñëavänäm yathä çambhuù: “Amongst the Vaiñëavas, Çaàbhu, Lord Siva, is the greatest Vaiñëava.” So we worship Lord Siva as Vaisnava. We gives respect to Vaisnavas. So why not Lord Siva? Lord Siva is a big Vaisnava. But generally, the devotees of Lord Siva, they take Lord Siva is independent God. That is offensive. If you know that Lord Siva is also a devotee, you can give more respect to Lord Siva. Krsna will be pleased.

 

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupäda, he does not chant Hare Krsna, he chants om siväya namah.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right.

 

Devotee (3): It’s all right?

 

Prabhupäda: He will gradually become devotee. When God, Lord Siva, will be pleased upon him, he will advise to worship.

 

Devotee (3): He is already trying to tell him to follow in your footsteps surely, so just before I left he said he will try once again to chant sixteen rounds of japa, Hare Krsna. He has tried already. He has a taste for...

 

Prabhupäda: If he simply understands that Lord Siva is a Vaisnava and if he worships Lord Siva, then he will get the benefit.

----------------------

 

Hare Krsna

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 06-13-2002).]

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Originally posted by ram:

Good points Sha.

Gaudiya vaishnava acharyas did not worship Lord Shiva.

 

 

When Lord Krishna and Radharani played the magnificent Divine dance of 'Maha Raasa Lila', Shankar Bhagavan entered the Lila as a Gopi.

 

<font color="blue">Thus He became popular with the Name Gopi-Isvara.

 

There is a temple in Vrindavan for Gopisvara, Whom all Vrajavasis including GVs worship with love.</font>

 

--------------------

 

<font color="red">Every Gaudiya Vaishnava who prays to Pancha Tattva is worshipping Lord Shiva, as Sri Advaitacarya is Lord Shiva Himself.

 

In Caitanya Caritamrita, Mahaprabhu's eternal Associate Sri Advaitacarya is said to be Lord Shiva, who always says,

 

"I am the servant of Lord Krishna."

 

Intoxicated by ecstatic Love for Krishna, He becomes overwhelmed and incessantly dances without clothing and sings about Lord Krishna's qualities and pastimes.</font>

 

--------------------

 

<font color="blue">In Caitanya Bhagavata of Vrndavana dasa, there is a nice description of PRIVATE meeting of Mahaprabhu and Advaitacarya. It is again confirmed there that Lord Shiva Himself appeared as Advaitacarya.

 

As it is clearly declared:

 

Chapter nine. text 84. <big>Anyone who does not like one of these two Lords does not like both Lords. Lord Caitanya and Lord Advaita are like Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva.</big></font>

 

--------------

 

An episode from Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Pastimes:

 

"Lord Caitanya soon arrived in 'Jalesvara' village.

 

 

He went directly to the TEMPLE OF SIVA, the main Deity in that village.

 

 

The Siva-Linga Deity was well looked after by local brahmana priest.

 

 

The floral decorations in the temple and on the diety were attractive and the smell of incense permeated the air giving the place an exhilarating devotional mood.

 

 

Devotees in the temple were singing, playing musical instruments, and dancing. The Lord's anger (for Lord Nityananda breaking His sanyasi danda) subcided in that joyful atmosphere.

 

 

He let the loving devotional feelings in His heart gradually flow and merge in with the music.

 

 

Enlivened by His Dear Devotee's, (Lord Siva's) opulence and influence in the temple, Lord Caitanya began to dance happily.

 

<center> Posted Image

 

Posted Image

 

 

</center>

 

Lord Caitanya KNOWS the Lord Siva's glorious character, for He is the FAVORITE among His devotees.

 

 

IF ANYONE DISRESPECTS LORD SIVA, NOT FOLLOWING the EXAMPLE OF LORD CAITANYA,

 

 

THEN HE CAN NOT BE CONSIDERED A VAISHNAVA and ALL HIS SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT IS ANNULLED.

 

 

As the Lord danced, He made joyful sounds so loud that the very mountains seemed to tremble.

 

Lord Shiva's devotees were struck with amazement and thought that

 

<font color="red"> LORD SIVA MUST HAVE APPEARED IN PERSON!</font>

 

The musicians and singers reached a crescendo and the Lord became fully absorbed in dancing, losing all contact with the outside world.

 

 

Meanwhile, His devotees arrived. Mukunda began to sing, joined by others. Seeing His beloved associates, the Lord experienced great joy and DANCED more vigorously while the devotees danced circling Him.

 

 

The whole scene was dynamically TRANSFORMED.

 

 

Tears flowed out effusively in a hundred streams from Lord's eyes. Who can describe all the happenings properly?

 

 

<font color="blue">THIS TEMPLE OF LORD SIVA WAS SANCTIFIED BY THE LORDS PRESENCE AND DANCING IN FRONT OF THE DIETY OF SIVA-LINGA.

 

 

THE REAL PURPOSE FOR WHICH THE TEMPLE WAS BUILT WAS FULFILLED."</font>

 

 

(An excerpt from 'Caitanya Bhagavata', Antya-Lila chapter 2, page 453, by B.V.Puri Goswami)<small><font color="cfcfcf">

 

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-13-2002).]

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These are all very important points that all the devottee should digest.

 

I have often felt this point to be misunderstood and because of offenses to Lord Shiva so many of us have suffered spritually

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<font color=red>Shri Mahadeva protects the Holy Dham of Braja, and every wise pilgrim must go to offer his respect and homage unto him.

 

Shri Mahadeva presides in Vraja as Gopishvara in Vrindavan, Bhuteshvara in Mathura, Nandishvara at Nandagrama, Kameshvara at Kamyavana, Cakaleshvara at Govardhan and Kundeshvara at Radha Kund.

 

Prior to parikrama of Radha Kund we offer our respects to Kundeshvara Mahadeva, and prior to entering Vamsi Vat we pray for the blessing of Gopishvara Mahadeva, who guards the arena of the sacred circle dance.

 

Every Vaishnava in the Holy Dham prays for the kind blessing of Shri Mahadeva.

 

Visvanatha writes in his Sankalpa Kalpadruma (103):</font><font color=blue><blockquote><big>vRndAvanavani-pate! jaya soma soma-maule

sanaka-sanandana-sanAtana-nAradeDya

gopIzvara! vraja-vilAsi-yugAGghri-padme

prema prayaccha nirupAdhi namo namaste

 

"O gatekeeper of Vrindavana! O Soma, all glories to you! O you whose forehead is decorated with the moon, and who is worshipable for the sages headed by Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana and Narada! O Gopisvara! Desiring that you bestow upon me prema for the lotus feet of Shri Shri Radha-Madhava who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja-dhama, I offer pranamas unto you time and again!"

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Originally posted by Pita das:

These are all very important points that all the devottee should digest.

 

I have often felt this point to be misunderstood and because of offenses to Lord Shiva so many of us have suffered spritually

This verse is from an excerpt on 'Bhakti' written in 'Uttara Khanda' of Sri Rama Carita Manas by Saint Sri Tulasidasa and spoken by Lord Ramacandra Himself.

 

Lord Ramacandra said:

 

 

<big><font color="red">" aurau eka guputa mata sabahi kahaum kara jori,

shankara bhajana binaa nara bhagati na paavai mori "

 

</font><font color="blue">With folded hands I now lay before you one MORE SECRET doctrine:

WITHOUT ADORING Lord Shankara NO MAN can ATTAIN loving DEVOTION to ME.</font></big>

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In BG, Krishna says something like this : demigod worship is indirect and is ignorance. That demigods cannot offer any thing more than material benefits, which the devotees dont want anyway.

 

How do you reconcile with these statements with the Gita ? Gaudiya vaishnava acharyas did not worship Lord Shiva. Nor do Madhwas or Sri Vaishnavas do.

It depends on the mode of worship. Worship of Vaishnavas is most desirable. Let us not forget that both Mahadeva and Brahmaji are instrumental in supplying devotional wisdom to the world.

 

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Originally posted by ram:

Good points Sha.

 

In BG, Krishna says something like this : demigod worship is indirect and is ignorance. That demigods cannot offer any thing more than material benefits, which the devotees dont want anyway.

 

How do you reconcile with these statements with the Gita ? Gaudiya vaishnava acharyas did not worship Lord Shiva. Nor do Madhwas or Sri Vaishnavas do.

 

 

Lord Shiva should not be confused as demigod.

 

The verse 45 of 'Sri Brahma Samahitam' states the <big>transformation</big> of Lord Krishna -

 

<font color="red">"kSIraM yathA dadhi vikAra vizeSa yogAt

saJjAyate na hi pRthag asti hetoH

yaH zambhu tAm api tathA samupaiti kAryAd

govindam AdipuruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi"</font>

 

Meaning: Just as milk itself is transformed into curd (yogurt),

but yet they both are neither SAME nor DIFFERENT from each other,

so also I adore my Beloved primeveal Lord Govinda, Who has transformed Himself into Lord Shiva for the performance of divine lilas.

 

Here are some more excerpts, taken from Brahma Vaivarta Purana in relation to Lord Siva.

 

"Lord Siva is said to be a portion of Lord Krishna and arise out of the left side of Krshna's body.

 

<font color="red">"vAmarddhAGgo mahAdevo

dakSiNo gopikApatiH"</font>

 

The left half became Siva and the right became the Husband of Gopis.

 

He is dearly loved by Krishna.

 

The BVP says it is sin to slander Siva, Who is dearer to Krishna than His own life.

 

Krishna Himself declares:

 

"Among my favorites Brahma is dear to Me.

 

Lakshmi, ever residing on my chest, is dearer than Brahma.

 

Radha is yet dearer, and my devotees are dearer still.

 

Dearest of all is Shankara (Siva); no one is dearer than He.

 

My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha.

 

My Self with Sankara, who is dearer than My life."

 

(Bkh,Pkh, KJkh of BVP)

 

Those who are the Excellant Portions of Krishna are intensely devoted to Him.

 

It is not surprising then that Siva, a Portion of Krishna, is His Devotee.

 

We find frequent references to Siva as the BEST OF VAISNAVAS.

 

Accordingly, Siva seeks to become the Servant of Krishna and confesses His own dependence upon the latter.

 

Siva is often portrayed as in constant MEDITATION ON KRISHNA, WEEPING, DANCING with ECSTACY of devotion.

 

Of all those who know Krishna, it is Siva, the BEST OF VAISNAVAS, who knows Him best.

 

Thus, by Siva's Grace a votary may attain faith in Krishna.

 

Siva in fact states that those who oppress Vaisnavas will be punished by Krishna and that the hearts of non-vaisnavas are impure He further exclaims that Vaisnavas are DEARER to HIM than HIS OWN followers.

 

Krishna, Who is filled with Love for His devotees, has made Siva equal to Himself on account of Siva's DEEP Devotion.

 

Krishna asserts that Siva is fully His EQUAL in splendour, knoweledge and virtue.

 

Further, the Divine Forms or Bodies (Sat-Chit-Ananda vigrahas) of Siva and Krishna alone are Eternal, not those of other beings.

 

It is through Siva's Devotion to Krishna, finally, not MERE EQUALITY, but actual IDENTITY is apparently attained:

 

<font color="red">'svapne jAgaraNe zazvath kRSNa dhyAna rataH zivaH

yathA kRSNA stathA zambhur na bhedo mAdhavezayoH"</font>

 

(Brahma Vaivarta Purana-Prakriti khanda II.56.61)

 

"Sleeping or awake, Siva is constantly absorbed in MEDITATION of KRISHNA.

 

AS IS KRISHNA, SO IS SAMBHU; THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between MADHAVA and ISA"

 

<font color="red">'yo hariH sa zivaH sAkSAd yaH zivaH sa svayaM hariH

ye tayor bhedamAti sthan narakAya bhave nnaraH</font>

 

(Visnu purana.5.33.46)

 

"Whoever is Lord Hari, He Himself is Lord Shiva indeed.

 

Whoever is manifesting as Lord Shiva, He Himself is Lord Hari.

 

Any humanbeing mistakes both the Lords to be different, he/she surely goes to hell.

 

In Vishnu Purana also, VISHNU declares HIS NON DIFFERENCE from SIVA. (V.P.5.33.46-48)

 

Here we find, full justification for the statement in the Narada PancaRatra concerning the BVP as teaching the NON DIFFERENCE between HARI AND HARA.

 

Just as stated in Brahma-Samhita the relationship of Lord Siva and Lord Govinda are compared to that of milk and yogurt. Milk itself becomes TRANSFORMED into yogurt.

 

Similarly, though They both are possessing the same transcendental attributes, They PERFORM different divine pastimes.

 

<font color="red">"yathA ziva mayo viSNuH

zivasya hRdayaM viSNur viSNoz

ca hRdayaM zivaH</font>

 

(Skanda Purana)

 

Just as Lord Vishnu is pervaded by Lord Shiva,

 

similarly, in Siva's heart Vishnu resides and Vishnu's heart is the abode of Shiva.

 

<center><font color="red"> nimnagAnAM yathA gaMgA devAnAm acyuto yathA

vaiSNavAnAM yathA zambhuH purANAnAm idaM tathA

kSetrANAM caiva sarveSAM yathA kAzI hyonuttamA

tathA purANa vratAnAM zrI mad bhAgavataM dvijAH "</font>

 

(Srimad Bhagavatam 12.13.17)

 

Posted Image

 

Just as the celestial Ganges is the most Holy among all the flowing rivers,

just as Lord Krishna is the Supreme among all Divine Personalties,

just as Lord Siva is the most Exalted Lover of Vishnu,

just as the City of Kasi is the most Sacred among all Holy places,

Srimad Bhagavatam is also the most fulfilling vow as well as the most elevated Scripture among all other auspicious Puranas.

 

 

Prayers to Lord Shiva-

 

<font color="red">jagadguro namastubhyaM

zivAya zivadAya ca

yogIndrANAm ca yogIndra

gurUNAM gurave namaH"</font>

 

"Salutations unto Thee, O Teacher of the universe.

Thou art the Lord auspicious and the giver of bliss,

the foremost of the perfect Yogis,

the Teacher of teachers.

Salutations unto Thee."

 

(BVP 4.30.43)

 

Another prayer for Shivaji says-

 

<font color="red">haste 'kSa mAlA hRdi kRSNa tattvaM

jihvAgra bhAge vara rAma mantraM

yan mastake kezava pAda tirthaM

zivaM 'mahA bhAgavatAM' namAmi"</font>

 

 

Meaning-

I salute to the Supreme Devotee, (Maha Bhagavata)

in Whose hand is the a-ksha (A to Z) japamaala,

in Whose heart is the reservoir of Divine Essence of Lord Krishna,

on Whose tongue is ever residing the Name of His Beloved Rama,

on Whose head is ever flowing Sacred water that washes the Lotus feet of Lord Keshava.

 

Jai Hari-Hara, Mahaadeva Shambho!

 

<center>Posted Image

 

 

<font color="blue"><big>brahma murAri surArcita lingam

nirmalabhAsita zobhita lingam

janmaja duHkha vinAzaka lingam

tat praNamAmi sadAziva lingam</big></font>

 

I bow before that Sada Shiva Linga, which is adored by Brahma, Vishnu and other Gods, which is praised by pure and holy speeches and which destroys the cycle of births and deaths.

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Why is it that some vaishnavas cannot tolerate the worship of Lord Shiva? The roots of Shaivism are embedded in the Vedas, Agamas and Tirunmurais, dating back thousands of years. The worship of Lord Shiva can be seen in the Indus Valley scripts (9000BC). Many of the greatest vaisnavites have been great devotees of Shiva such as Rama and Hanuman.

 

What is really troubling is that some of the people who can't tolerate Shaivism, sing the praises of the western creeds especially islam. Just to let you know, islam is the complete opposite of everything that hindus believe in. Not only that, but all kafirs will go to hell for eternity, regardless of our actions even if we are the most spiritually advanced souls. This is the 'merciful and compassionate' nature of their 'God' in action. Complete contrast to the vaisnavite and saivite view of God.

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Originally posted by Pita das:

These are all very important points that all the devottee should digest.

 

I have often felt this point to be misunderstood and because of offenses to Lord Shiva so many of us have suffered spritually

Here is an excerpt from the article 'Bhakti in Ramayana' written by Sri R.K.Tripathi and found in the English and Hindi translation of Sri Tulasdasa's 'Sri Rama Carita Manasa' by Professor R.C.Prasad.

 

There is one thing more which seems to be Tulasidasa's specific contribution - not emphasized by other saints, and that is the worship of Lord Shiva.

 

<font color="red">Ramachandra Himself says that without the WORSHIP of SHIVA, one CANNOT cultivate His Bhakti. In this way the poet resolved the conflict between Shaivas and Vaishnavas. Probably for this reason, in North India the conflict never assumed such proportions as it did in the South.

 

It should not be imagined that Tulasi regarded Shiva as INFERIOR to Rama. The RELATION between Rama and Shiva is very PECULIAR.

 

Rama WORSHIPS Shiva and Shiva WORSHIPS Rama. Tulasi says that<u> Shiva is AT ONCE the servant, the friend, and the Lord of Rama.</u> It ONLY means that the<u> two are one</u> with different forms; this is possible in Acintya-bheda-abheda.

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