More Shiva and Vishnu Discussion

raga · June 16, 2002

Moreover:

<blockquote>298 Lord Siva, who is known as Sadasiva and Sambhu, is manifest in the northeast part of Vaikunthaloka.

June 16, 2002

Gaudiyas give Shiva more elevated position than the Sri Vaishnavas do. But is it enough ? One could argue as follows. Even Srimad Bhagavatham clearly says that Shiva is the Supreme Lord.

sha · June 16, 2002

Originally posted by raga:

Sha Ji makes the point clear by increasing the point size.

<marquee direction="right">Shri

Gopishwar

Mahadev

Ki Jai!</marquee>

Are you convinced, or need I make it bigger?

<center><big> Thanks, Raga ji!</big>

Posted Image

"vande zambhuM umApathiM sura guruM

vande jagat kAraNaM

vande pannaga bhUshaNaM mRgadharaM

vande pazUnAM patiM

vande sUrya zazAMka vahni nayanaM

vande 'mukunda priyaM'

vande bhakta janAzrayaM ca varadaM

vande zivaM zaGkaraM"

Posted Image

I salute to Lord Sambhu, the Beloved Husband of Devi Uma and the preceptor of heavenly gods.

I bow down down to the Lord Who is the

root cause of the entire world.

I salute to the Lord Who has the serpents as His ornament, and Who carries the deer.

I bow down to the Lord of all beings.

My salutations to the Lord Who has the sun, the moon, and the fire as His three eyes.

<big>I bow down to the Lord, Who is VERY DEAR TO LORD MUKUNDA, KRISHNA.</big>

My salutations to Him, Who is the refuge of all devotees and Who showers His Grace on all surrendered souls.

And I bow down again to the Lord, Who is the embodiment of all auspiciousness,

Lord Sankara.

"giri rAja sutAnvita vAma tanuM

tanu nindita rAGjita koti vidhum

vidhi viSNu ziro dhRta pAda yugaM

praNamAmi zivaM ziva kalpa tarum"

Posted Image

I salute to Lord Siva, the embodiment of auspiciousness, Who is the

<big>desire fulfilling Kalpa-Tree for devotees.</big>

He is embraced on His left-side, by the daughter of Himalayas, Parvati Devi and

His bodily luster excells the beauty of million moons.<big>

Lord Vishnu and Brahma receive

His lotus feet, on Their Heads with love.</big>

"zazalAGchita raGjita sanmukuTaM

kaTi laMbita sundara kRtti paTam

sura zaivalinI kRta puta jaTaM

praNamAmi zivaM ziva kalpatarum"

(Sivashtakam 2, 3, by Sri Sankaracarya)

I salute again to Lord Siva, the embodiment of auspiciousness, Who is the desire fulfilling Kalpa-Tree, devotees.

His elegant crown is adorned with the moon, His waist is wrapped in beautiful hide of the elephant demon (devotee), Gajasura,

His matted locks of hair are drenched with the Sacred waters of Ganges, Ganga, the Celestial River.

Posted Image

"tvatpAdAMbuja marcayAmi paramaM

tvAM cintayAsyan vahaM

tvamIsaM zaraNaM vrajAmi vacasA

tvameva yAce vibho

vIkSAM me diza cAkSuSIM sakaruNAM

divyaizciraM prArthitAM

zambho! lokaguro!

madIya mAnasaH saukhyopadezaM kuru"

<big>O Benevolent Preceptor of the universe!</big>

I offer worship unto Thy lotus feet and

contemplate daily on Thy Supreme Self.

I surrender myself unto Thee and with my words supplicate Thee.

I pray, vouchsafe unto me a gracious glance, longsought after even by the heavenly gods.

And do Thou instruct my mind in the methods of attaining tranquility and Divine bliss.

(Sivananda lahari- 29, by Sri Sankaracarya)

"namaste namaste vibho vizva mUrte

namaste namaste cidAnanda mUrte

namaste namaste tapoyoga gamya

namaste namaste zRtijnAna gamya"

Posted Image

Salutations to Thee, O All pervading Being, Who appears in the form of the universe.

Salutations to Thee, Who are of the form of Knowledge and Bliss, Itself.

Salutations to Thee, Who are attained through the spiritual desciplines and meditation.

Salutation to Thee, Who are realised by the highest knowledge revealed in the Scriptures.

(Vedasara Siva stava. 8, by Sri Sankaracarya)

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-16-2002).]

raga · June 16, 2002

Originally posted by ram:

Gaudiyas give Shiva more elevated position than the Sri Vaishnavas do. But is it enough ? One could argue as follows. Even Srimad Bhagavatham clearly says that Shiva is the Supreme Lord.

If you read my posting carefully, Sadashiva is the Supreme Lord. More precisely, Sadashiva is of His vilasa-murtis (vaibhava-vilasa).

You can have a look at http://www.gaudiya.com (a website I'm working on) and the diagram available in the [Theology] section (one of the few already up). It covers the basics on Bhagavan's expansions. A more detailed essay is to come out in the near future.

sha · June 16, 2002

Originally posted by raga:

Well... He also has His share of illusion in Braj, but this is completely different.

Shiva got illusioned with Mohini. Otherwise, I've never heard that he would get illusioned.

quote:

--

Originally posted by raga:

This is a pastime with Vishnu.

--

Yes, Lord Shiva (Gopishvara) and Lord Krishna (Gopivallabha) are eternal Lovers, no matter how the conditioned souls percieve Them according to their own sanskaras.

Their pastimes of mutual eternal Love for each other are always enjoyed by the devotees of both Divinities.

The prayers to Lord Shiva addressing him such as-

mukunda priya= very dear to Mukunda, Lord Krishna

mAdhavAhlAda= giver of enjoyment to Madhava, Krishna

garuDadhvajApta= very intimate relation of Vishnu Whose banner is adorned by Garuda, the King of birds

and so on.. prove Their Divine Love.

Lord Caitanya had also stressed this point by His pastimes with Advaitacarya Who was the incarnation of Lord Shiva.

The traditional Gaudiya acaryas know Their Divine relationship very well except for a few recent followers.

Devotees of Lord Ramacandra should keep their faith in the words of Lord Rama Himself:

<center> Posted Image

Lord Ramacandra said:

<big>"aurau eka guputa mata sabahi kahaum kara jori,

shankara bhajana binaa nara bhagati na paavai mori"

With folded hands I now lay before you one MORE SECRET doctrine:

WITHOUT ADORING Lord Shankara NO MAN can ATTAIN loving DEVOTION to ME.</big>

</center>

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-16-2002).]

radharani · June 16, 2002

(from an earlier post in this thread)

Krsna:

"My heart resides with my devotees, My life with Radha."

Because she wants more than anything to figure him out, which of course can NOT be done in only ONE lifetime!!! She wants to solve the riddle of the mind of God. And she'll never rest until she does.

( I know, kind of off topic, but I saw this here and wanted to respond to it.)

sha · June 16, 2002

Originally posted by shvu:

Yes, just like Vishnu is a demi-god in Shaiva literature.

Cheers

Not only Shaiva literature but also in many sastras and authentic Puranas, Panca Devopasana , (in which Lord Vishnu is one of the five 'demigods) described.

Panca deva Upasana= worship of 5 Devas-namely:

Dinesh- Surya bhagavan-sun god

Ramesh- Lord Vishnu

Umesh- Lord Shiva

Ganesh- Lord Ganesh

Durga- Devi Durga

The worship of these five gods is prescribed and mostly for material purposes.

In Gita Lord Krishna said those actions are to be considered as " su kRti".

Lord Krishna said in Gita. 7.16

'Four types of virtuous men (women) worship Me, O Arjuna:

the man in distress,

the man seeking knowledge,,

the man seeking wealth,

and the man imbued with Divine wisdom and Love, O the best of the Bharatas.'

So demigod worship of Vishnu or Shiva has been practiced by many, not to be alarmed.

sha · June 17, 2002

Gaudiyas give Shiva more elevated position than the Sri Vaishnavas do.

You can share this Puranic episode from another board with your 'Sri Vaishnavas':

An excerpt from:

Lakshmi and Saraswati - Tales in Mythology and Art

While the great goddess as a cosmic force may be a deity of compelling dynamism and fearsome power,

it is in the guise of the gentle and beneficent giver of the devotees' desires, that the female divinities of India first appeared.

This role of the goddess as one who fulfills wishes has remained one of enduring strength and consequence.

In the ancient collection of sacred hymns known as the Veda, this aspect of the goddess alread becomes manifest.

The two most shining examples in this are The Great Goddesses Lakshmi and Saraswati.

LAKSHMI:

Goddess Lakshmi, also known as Shri, is personified not only as the goddess of fortune and wealth but also as an embodiment of loveliness, grace and charm.

She is worshipped as a goddess who grants both worldly prosperity as well as liberation from the cycle of life and death.

Lore has it that Lakshmi arose out of the sea of milk, the primordial cosmic ocean, bearing a red lotus in her hand.

Each member of the divine triad - Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva (creator, preserver and destroyer respectively)- wanted to have her for himself.

Shiva's claim was refused for he had already

claimed the Moon, Brahma had Saraswati, so Vishnu claimed her and she was born and reborn as his consort during all of his ten incarnations.

Though retained by Vishnu as his consort, Lakshmi remained an avid DEVOTEE of Lord SHIVA.

An interesting legend surrounds HER DEVOTION to this GOD:

Every day Lakshmi had a thousand flowers plucked by her handmaidens and She offered them to the Deity of Shiva in the evening.

One day, counting the flowers as She offered them, She found that there were TWO less than a thousand.

It was too late to pluck any more for evening had come and the lotuses had closed their petals for the night.

Lakshmi thought it inauspicious to offer less than a thousand.

Suddenly She remembered that Vishnu had once described Her breasts as blooming LOTUSES.

She decided to offer them as the TWO missing flowers.

Lakshmi CUT OFF one breast and PLACED IT with the flowers on the ALTAR. Before She could CUT off the other, Shiva, Who was extremely moved by her DEVOTION, appeared before Her and asked Her to stop.

He then turned Her cut breast into round,

SACRED Bael fruit (Aegle marmelos) and sent

it to Earth with His blessings, to flourish near His temples.

It is a well known fact that Lord Shiva is worshipped by 'Bliva' leaves and fruits which are very dear to Him.

This is also chanted as prayer to Lord Shiva in "Bilva ashtakam".

The name "bilva nilayA" is chanted among the 108 names of Lakshmi devi, in Sri Lakshmi Ashtottarasata namavali stotra.

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-17-2002).]

Pita das · June 17, 2002

Lord Shiva has been intentional placed out of the lime light in Iskcon by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada because he established the Krishna Conscious movement in the west.

So we all respects to Lord shiva and his wonderful quailties we respect and surrender to him in the mood of Srila Prabhupada.

Lord Siva even he takes a form as a gopi does not enter into the ras leela he protects it.

sha · June 17, 2002

quote:

--

Lord Siva even he takes a form as a gopi does not enter into the ras leela he protects it.

--

Your source of information is incorrect. It is as laughable as saying Sri Advaitacarya did not dance in the intimate circle of Gauranga Mahaprabhu.

How can any one believe such misinformation given without realization?

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-17-2002).]

theist · June 17, 2002

sha, can you show where Pita is incorrect?

raga · June 17, 2002

To the best of my understanding, Gopisvara did not enter rAsa.

Of course this does not mean anything in regards to Shiva's eligibility otherwise.

sha · June 17, 2002

Originally posted by raga:

To the best of my understanding, Gopisvara did not enter rAsa.

Of course this does not mean anything in regards to Shiva's eligibility otherwise.

Has any body here been supplied with a list of Gopis (including or excluding Gopiswara) who entered Maha Rasa from their teachers?

Please do your homework and Padma Purana may give you 'some' important information.

Proper guidance from Vraja Prema Rasika acaryas and learning from the Rasika literature of realized saints is not only beneficial but also essential to understand Vraja Madhurya Lila of Radha Krishna.

As I have mentioned before, devotees have their choice to blaspheme with ignorance or not to with proper understanding of elevated topics.

Lord Krishna advised Lord Gopiswara Shiva,

idaM rahasyaM paramaM mayAte parikIrtitam

tvayApyetan mahAdeva gopanIyaM prayatnataH

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-17-2002).]

June 17, 2002

Originally posted by sha:

It is a well known fact that Lord Shiva is worshipped by 'Bliva' leaves and fruits which are very dear to Him.

This is also chanted as prayer to Lord Shiva in "Bilva ashtakam".

The name "bilva nilayA" is chanted among the 108 names of Lakshmi devi, in Sri Lakshmi Ashtottarasata namavali stotra.

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-17-2002).]

Sha, can you please tell me in which purAna, this episode is described ?

June 17, 2002

Originally posted by raga:

If you read my posting carefully, Sadashiva is the Supreme Lord. More precisely, Sadashiva is of His vilasa-murtis (vaibhava-vilasa).

You can have a look at http://www.gaudiya.com (a website I'm working on) and the diagram available in the [Theology] section (one of the few already up). It covers the basics on Bhagavan's expansions. A more detailed essay is to come out in the near future.

Raga, looked at your site and wishing well for its success in presenting the truth.

I have three clarifications :

1. If Lord Shiva is indeed the Supreme Lord, then why should He not be worshipped as such ?

2. On what basis is the worship of Lord Shiva considered as demigod worship ?

3. On what basis is Lord Shiva considered a guna avatar ? I have read this in the "The Teachings of Lord Caitanya" by Srila Prabhupada and also saw it on your website.

sha · June 17, 2002

Originally posted by sha:

It is a well known fact that Lord Shiva is worshipped by 'Bliva' leaves and fruits which are very dear to Him.

This is also chanted as prayer to Lord Shiva in "Bilva ashtakam".

The name "bilva nilayA" is chanted among the 108 names of Lakshmi devi, in Sri Lakshmi Ashtottarasata namavali stotra.

.. bilvAshhTakam.h ..

http://www.hindunet.org/stotras/itx/bilvaashhtaka.txt

laxmyAstanuta utpannaM mahAdevasya cha priyam.h .

bilvavR^ixaM prayachchhAmi hyekabilvaM shivArpaNam.h .. 6.. (verse 6)

mUlato brahmarUpAya madhyato vishhNurUpiNe .

agrataH shivarUpAya hyekabilvaM shivArpaNam.h .. 8.. (verse 8)

.. shrii pushhpadanta virachitaM shivamahimna stotram.h

http://www.hindunet.org/stotras/itx/shivamahi.txt

tavaishvaryaM yatnAd.h yadupari viriJNchirhariradhaH

parichchhetuM yAtAvanilamanalaskandhavapushhaH .

tato bhaktishraddhA##-##bharaguru##-##gR^iNadbhyAM girisha yat.h

svayaM tasthe tAbhyAM tava kimanuvR^ittirna phalati .. 10..

Brahma and VishhNu wanted to measure your wealth i.e.greatness. You took the form of Fire and your whole body was a column of fire extending over space . While Brahma took the form of a swan and flew high to see the top(head), VishhNu took the form of a boar and dug up downwards to see the bottom (feet).

Neither could succeed. (While VishhNu confessed the truth, Brahma falsely claimed that he had found the top and persuaded the Ketaki flower to bear false witness.

Shiva punished Brahma by removing one of his 5 heads and ordered that henceforth the Ketaki flower should not be used for his worship).

When ultimately both praised you with full devotion and faith, you stood before them revealing your normal form.

O, mountain-dweller, does not toeing your line always bear fruit? (10)

hariste sAhasraM kamala balimAdhAya padayoH

yadekone tasmin.h nijamudaharannetrakamalam.h .

gato bhaktyudrekaH pariNatimasau chakravapushhaH

trayANAM raxAyai tripurahara jAgarti jagatAm.h .. 19..

Here is another legend:

VishhNu once brought 1000 lotuses and was placing them at your feet;

after placing 999 flowers he found that one was missing; he plucked out one of his own eyes and offered it as a lotus;

this supreme exemplification of devotion on his part was transformed into the wheel (sudarshana chakra) in his hand, which he uses for protecting the world .

prajAnAthaM nAtha prasabhamabhikaM svAM duhitaraM

gataM rohid.h bhuutAM riramayishhumR^ishhyasya vapushhA .

dhanushhpANeryAtaM divamapi sapatrAkR^itamamuM

trasantaM te.adyApi tyajati na mR^igavyAdharabhasaH .. 22..

O, Protector! Once Brahma became infatuated with his own daughter. When she fled taking the form of a female deer he also took the form of a male deer and chased her. You took the form of a hunter and went after him, with a bow in hand. Struck by your arrow and very much frightened, Brahma fled to the sky taking the form of a star.

Even today he stands frightened by you . (22)

tava tattvaM na jAnAmi kIdR^isho.asi maheshvara .

yAdR^isho.asi mahAdeva tAdR^ishAya namo namaH .. 41..

I do not know the truth of your nature and how you are . O, great God! My Salutations are to that nature of yours of which you really are .

raga · June 17, 2002

1. If Lord Shiva is indeed the Supreme Lord, then why should He not be worshipped as such ?

Anyone who desires may worship Sri Sadashiva. As far as the Gaudiya sampradaya is concerned, there is a concept of "ekAnta bhakti", or focused devotion. Worshiping the original form of the Lord removes the need of worshiping His expansions.

2. On what basis is the worship of Lord Shiva considered as demigod worship ?

When Sadashiva is not understood as an expansion of Adi Sankarsana (Baladeva), or His Rudra-forms who are empowered living entities are similarly worshiped without understanding the truth behind them. According to Gita, such worship is not following the proper vidhi and is of a poor understanding.

3. On what basis is Lord Shiva considered a guna avatar ? I have read this in the "The Teachings of Lord Caitanya" by Srila Prabhupada and also saw it on your website.

In Srimad Bhagavata 11.4.5 the three guna-avataras are linked with their respective modes as follows:

AdAv abhUc chata-dhRtI rajasAsya sarge

viSNuH sthitau kratu-patir dvija-dharma-setuH

rudro ’pyayAya tamasA puruSaH sa Adya

ity udbhava-sthiti-layAH satataM prajAsu

"In the beginning, the original Supreme Personality manifested the form of BrahmA through the material mode of passion in order to create this universe. The Lord manifested His form as ViSNu, the Lord of sacrifice and protector of the twice-born brAhmaNas and their religious duties, to maintain the universe. And when the universe is to be annihilated the same Supreme Lord employs the material mode of ignorance and manifests the form of Rudra The created living beings are thus always subject to the forces of creation, maintenance and destruction."

The term "gunAvatAra" itself comes from Bhagavata 3.7.28:

guNAvatArair vizvasya

sarga-sthity-apyayAzrayam

sRjataH zrInivAsasya

vyAcakSvodAra-vikramam

[Vidura speaks to Maitreya:] "Please also describe the guna-avataras of the Supreme Lord Srinivasa, the ultimate shelter and origin of all, for creation, maintenance and destruction, as well as His magnanimous activities."

sha · June 17, 2002

I received it as a message sent to me being a member of Hindu Religious group, the source being- Digest no.36

http://www.geocities.com/ozhindu/OzHindu.html

Moreover this verse from 'bilvashtakam' also confirms:

laxmyAstanuta utpannaM mahAdevasya cha priyam.h .

bilvavR^ixaM prayachchhAmi hyekabilvaM shivArpaNam.h .. 6.. (verse 6)

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-18-2002).]

sha · June 17, 2002

. If Lord Shiva is indeed the Supreme Lord, then why should He not be worshipped as such ?

But He is Gopishvara also, Who Himself is eternally in Love with Gopi-vallabha Krishna, and He enters Maha Raasa as the Gopi Who is but another expansion of Radharani, Lord Krishna's Swaroopa shakti.

So Gaudiyas worshipping the Divine couple, together with Gopishvara is accepted by Rasik saints.

We can worship Advaitacarya alone as a guru but worshipping together with Mahaprabhu is Panca tattva upasana. We can worship Hanumanji alone but he will in turn offer the devotees' worship to Lord Rama.

[This message has been edited by sha (edited 06-17-2002).]

gtam · June 17, 2002

PANCHANAD TEERTHA: Hearing about the arrival of Lord Vishnu at Dwarka, numerous sages like Marichi etc came to Dwarkapuri. They had a 'darshan' of Dwarkapuri and took bath in the river Gomti. They established a pilgrimage called 'Panchanad'. Five rivers arrived at their invocations. River Gomti came at the invocation of sage Marichi, river Laxmana came at the invocation of Sage Atri, similarly river Chandrabhaga, river Kushawati and river Jambavati came at the invocations of sage Angira, Sage Pulah and sage Kratu respectively.

One who aspires for heaven and salvation must take a bath there.

SIDDESHWAR LINGA: When sage Sanak, Sanandan etc came to know about the arrival of Lord Brahma, they came to see him. Lord Brahma said to them: "Sons, Lord Vishnu is pleased by such a man who worships Lord Shiva and he (lord Vishnu) does not accept his own worship if Lord Shiva has not been worshipped. Hence, we must worship Lord Shiva."

After that sage Sanak etc established a Shiva linga and it came to be known as 'Siddeshwar linga'. The sages had also constructed a well near by which is famous as 'Rishi teertha'.

http://www.urday.com/dham.htm

[This message has been edited by gtam (edited 06-17-2002).]

gtam · June 17, 2002

About Lord Shiva

>

> Lord Shiva represents the aspect of the Supreme Being

> (Brahman of the Upanishads) that continuously

> dissolves to recreate in the cyclic process of

> creation, preservation, dissolution and recreation of

> the universe. Lord Shiva is the third member of the

> Hindu Trinity, the other two being Lord Brahma and

> Lord Vishnu. Owing to His cosmic activity of

> dissolution and recreation, the words destroyer and

> destruction have been erroneously associated with Lord

> Shiva. This difficulty arises when people fail to

> grasp the true significance of His cosmic role. The

> creation sustains itself by a delicate balance between

> the opposing forces of good and evil. When this

> balance is disturbed and sustenance of life becomes

> impossible, Lord Shiva dissolves the universe for

> creation of the next cycle so that the unliberated

> souls will have another opportunity to liberate

> themselves from bondage with the physical world. Thus,

> Lord Shiva protects the souls from pain and suffering

> that would be caused by a dysfunctional universe. In

> analogous cyclic processes, winter is essential for

> spring to appear and the night is necessary for the

> morning to follow. To further illustrate, a goldsmith

> does not destroy gold when he melts old irreparable

> golden jewellery to create beautiful new ornaments.

>

> Lord Shiva is the Lord of mercy and compassion. He

> protects devotees from evil forces such as lust,

> greed, and anger. He grants boons, bestows grace and

> awakens wisdom in His devotees. The symbolism

> discussed below includes major symbols that are common

> to all pictures and images of Shiva venerated by

> Hindus. Since the tasks of Lord Shiva are numerous, He

> cannot be symbolized in one form. For this reason the

> images of Shiva vary significantly in their symbolism.

> The unclad body covered with ashes: the unclad body

> symbolizes the transcendental aspect of the Lord.

> Since most things reduce to ashes when burned, ashes

> symbolize the physical universe. The ashes on the

> unclad body of the Lord signify that Shiva is the

> source of the entire universe which emanates from Him,

> but He transcends the physical phenomena and is not

> affected by it.

>

> The unclad body covered with ashes: the unclad body

> symbolizes the transcendental aspect of the Lord.

> Since most things reduce to ashes when burned, ashes

> symbolize the physical universe. The ashes on the

> unclad body of the Lord signify that Shiva is the

> source of the entire universe which emanates from Him,

> but He transcends the physical phenomena and is not

> affected by it.

>

> Matted locks: Lord Shiva is the Master of yoga. The

> three matted locks on the head of the Lord convey the

> idea that integration of the physical, mental and

> spiritual energies is the ideal of yoga.

>

> Ganga: Ganga (river Ganges) is associated with Hindu

> mythology and is the most sacred river of Hindus.

> According to tradition, one who bathes in Ganga

> (revered as Mother Ganga) in accordance with

> traditional rites and ceremonies on religious

> occasions in combination with certain astrological

> events, is freed from sin and attains knowledge,

> purity and peace. Ganga, symbolically represented on

> the head of the Lord by a female (Mother Ganga) with a

> jet of water emanating from her mouth and falling on

> the ground, signifies that the Lord destroys sin,

> removes ignorance, and bestows knowledge, purity and

> peace on the devotees.

>

> The crescent moon: is shown on the side of the Lord's

> head as an ornament, and not as an integral part of

> His countenance. The waxing and waning phenomenon of

> the moon symbolizes the time cycle through which

> creation evolves from the beginning to the end. Since

> the Lord is the Eternal Reality, He is beyond time.

> Thus, the crescent moon is only one of His ornaments,

> and not an integral part of Him.

>

> Three eyes: Lord Shiva, also called Tryambaka Deva

> (literally, "three-eyed Lord"), is depicted as having

> three eyes: the sun is His right eye, the moon the

> left eye and fire the third eye. The two eyes on the

> right and left indicate His activity in the physical

> world. The third eye in the center of the forehead

> symbolizes spiritual knowledge and power, and is thus

> called the eye of wisdom or knowledge. Like fire, the

> powerful gaze of Shiva's third eye annihilates evil,

> and thus the evil-doers fear His third eye.

>

> Half-open eyes: when the Lord opens His eyes, a new

> cycle of creation emerges and when He closes them, the

> universe dissolves for creation of the next cycle. The

> half-open eyes convey the idea that creation is going

> through cyclic process,

>

> with no beginning and no end. Lord Shiva is the Master

> of Yoga, as He uses His yogic power to project the

> universe from Himself. The half-open eyes also

> symbolize His yogic posture.

>

> Kundalas (two ear rings): two Kundalas, Alakshya

> (meaning "which cannot be shown by any sign") and

> Niranjan(meaning "which cannot be seen by mortal

> eyes") in the ears of the Lord signify that He is

> beyond ordinary perception Since the kundala in the

> left ear of the Lord is of the type used by women and

> the one in His right ear is of the type used by men,

> these Kundalas also symbolize the Shiva and Shakti

> (male and female) principle of creation

>

> Snake around the neck: sages have used snakes to

> symbolize the yogic power of Lord Shiva with which He

> dissolves and recreates the universe. Like a yogi, a

> snake hoards nothing, carries nothing, builds nothing,

> lives on air alone for a long time, and lives in

> mountains and forests. The venom of a snake,

> therefore, symbolizes the yogic power

>

> A snake (Vasuki Naga): is shown curled three times

> around the neck of the Lord and is looking towards His

> right side. The three coils of the snake symbolize the

> past, present and future - time in cycles. The Lord

> wearing the curled snake like an ornament signifies

> that creation proceeds in cycles and is time

> dependent, but the Lord Himself transcends time. The

> right side of the body symbolizes the human activities

> based upon knowledge, reason and logic. The snake

> looking towards the right side of the Lord signifies

> that the Lord's eternal laws of reason and justice

> preserve natural order in the universe.

>

> Rudraksha necklace: Rudra is another name of Shiva.

> Rudra also means "strict or uncompromising" and aksha

> means "eye." Rudraksha necklace worn by the Lord

> illustrates that He uses His cosmic laws firmly -

> without compromise - to maintain law and order in the

> universe. The necklace has 108 beads which symbolize

> the elements used in the creation of the world.

>

> Varda Mudra: the Lord's right hand is shown in a boon-

> bestowing and blessing pose. As stated earlier, Lord

> Shiva annihilates evil, grants boons, bestows grace,

> destroys ignorance, and awakens wisdom in His

> devotees.

>

> Trident (Trisula): a three-pronged trident shown

> adjacent to the Lord symbolizes His three fundamental

> powers (shakti) of will (iccha), action (kriya) and

> knowledge (jnana). The trident also symbolizes the

> Lord's power to destroy evil and ignorance.

>

> Damaru (drum): a small drum with two sides separated

> from each other by a thin neck-like structure

> symbolizes the two utterly dissimilar states of

> existence, unmanifest and manifest. When a damaru is

> vibrated, it produces dissimilar sounds which are

> fused together by resonance to create one sound. The

> sound thus produced symbolizes Nada, the cosmic sound

> of AUM, which can be heard during deep meditation.

> According to Hindu scriptures, Nada is the source of

> creation.

>

> Kamandalu: a water pot (Kamandalu) made from a dry

> pumpkin contains nectar and is shown on the ground

> next to Shiva. The process of making Kamandalu has

> deep spiritual significance. A ripe pumpkin is plucked

> from a plant, its fruit is removed and the shell is

> cleaned for containing the nectar. In the same way, an

> individual must break away from attachment to the

> physical world and clean his inner self of egoistic

> desires in order to experience the bliss of the Self,

> symbolized by the nectar in the Kamandalu.

>

> Nandi: the bull is associated with Shiva and is said

> to be His vehicle. The bull symbolizes both power and

> ignorance. Lord Shiva's use of the bull as a vehicle

> conveys the idea that He removes ignorance and bestows

> power of wisdom on His devotees. The bull is called

> Vrisha in Sanskrit. Vrisha also means dharma

> (righteousness). Thus a bull shown next to Shiva also

> indicates that He is the etemal companion of

> righteousness.

>

> Tiger skin: a tiger skin symbolizes potential energy.

> Lord Shiva, sitting on or wearing a tiger skin,

> illustrates the idea that He is the source of the

> creative energy that remains in potential form during

> the dissolution state of the universe. Of His own

> Divine Will, the Lord activates the potential form of

> the creative energy to project the universe in endless

> cycles.

>

> Cremation ground: Shiva sitting in the cremation

> ground signifies that He is the controller of death in

> the physical world. Since birth and death are cyclic,

> controlling one implies controlling the other. Thus,

> Lord Shiva is revered as the ultimate controller of

> birth and death in the phenomenal world.

>

June 18, 2002

Originally posted by sha:

Actually that article was not sent to me by the 'shop' for selling any Indian stuff.

I received it as a message sent to me being a member of Hindu Religious group, the source being- Digest no.36

http://www.geocities.com/ozhindu/OzHindu.html

Moreover this verse from 'bilvashtakam' also confirms:

Who wrote srI Lakshmi Ashtotharam ? When ?

June 18, 2002

Originally posted by raga:

1. If Lord Shiva is indeed the Supreme Lord, then why should He not be worshipped as such ?

Anyone who desires may worship Sri Sadashiva. As far as the Gaudiya sampradaya is concerned, there is a concept of "ekAnta bhakti", or focused devotion. Worshiping the original form of the Lord removes the need of worshiping His expansions.

2. On what basis is the worship of Lord Shiva considered as demigod worship ?

When Sadashiva is not understood as an expansion of Adi Sankarsana (Baladeva), or His Rudra-forms who are empowered living entities are similarly worshiped without understanding the truth behind them. According to Gita, such worship is not following the proper vidhi and is of a poor understanding.

3. On what basis is Lord Shiva considered a guna avatar ? I have read this in the "The Teachings of Lord Caitanya" by Srila Prabhupada and also saw it on your website.

In Srimad Bhagavata 11.4.5 the three guna-avataras are linked with their respective modes as follows:

AdAv abhUc chata-dhRtI rajasAsya sarge

viSNuH sthitau kratu-patir dvija-dharma-setuH

rudro ’pyayAya tamasA puruSaH sa Adya

ity udbhava-sthiti-layAH satataM prajAsu

"In the beginning, the original Supreme Personality manifested the form of BrahmA through the material mode of passion in order to create this universe. The Lord manifested His form as ViSNu, the Lord of sacrifice and protector of the twice-born brAhmaNas and their religious duties, to maintain the universe. And when the universe is to be annihilated the same Supreme Lord employs the material mode of ignorance and manifests the form of Rudra The created living beings are thus always subject to the forces of creation, maintenance and destruction."

The term "gunAvatAra" itself comes from Bhagavata 3.7.28:

guNAvatArair vizvasya

sarga-sthity-apyayAzrayam

sRjataH zrInivAsasya

vyAcakSvodAra-vikramam

[Vidura speaks to Maitreya:] "Please also describe the guna-avataras of the Supreme Lord Srinivasa, the ultimate shelter and origin of all, for creation, maintenance and destruction, as well as His magnanimous activities."

Thank you for the wonderful answers.

Pita das · June 18, 2002

I would also like to submit to the assembled devottees a question ,maybe best to ask Tripurai Maharaja maybe best to ask afew leading Vashnavas ?

How can Shree Adwaita Acarya be both Maha Vishnu and Sada Shiva at the same time or which incarnation is He?

sha · June 18, 2002

quote:

--

Originally posted by raga:

This is a pastime with Vishnu.

--

Originally posted by sha:

Yes, Lord Shiva (Gopishvara) and Lord Krishna (Gopivallabha) are eternal Lovers, no matter how the conditioned souls percieve Them according to their own sanskaras.

Their pastimes of mutual eternal Love for each other are always enjoyed by the devotees of both Divinities.

The prayers to Lord Shiva addressing him such as-

mukunda priya= very dear to Mukunda, Lord Krishna

mAdhavAhlAda= giver of enjoyment to Madhava, Krishna

garuDadhvajApta= very intimate relation of Vishnu Whose banner is adorned by Garuda, the King of birds

nArAyaNa priya= Lover of Narayana

and so on.. prove Their Divine Love.

Lord Caitanya had also stressed this point by His pastimes with Advaitacarya Who was the incarnation of Lord Shiva.

The traditional Gaudiya acaryas know Their Divine relationship very well except for a few recent followers.

Devotees of Lord Ramacandra should keep their faith in the words of Lord Rama Himself.

Here is another ancient verse describing the loving pastimes of These Two Divine Lovers-

bANAtvaM vRSamatvam-ardha-vapuSA bhAryA tvam AryApate

ghoNatvaM sakhitA mRdanga-vahatA c'etyAdi rUpaM dadhau,

tvatpade nayanArpanAM ca kRtavAn tvad-deha-bhAgo hariH

pUjyAt pUjyataraH sa eva hi na cet ko vA tadanyo 'dhikaH

(Sivananda Lahari. 82 - Sri Shankara Bhagavatpada)

<big>Lord Vishnu, Hari, Who took many forms - </big>

as Thy arrow,

as Thy mount,

as Thy Consort occupying half Thy body,

as a Boar,

as Thy Friend,

as Thy Drummer etc.,-

has offered His Own eyes at Thy feet in place of Lotus Flowers,

forming Part of Thy very Own Being!

O Lord Shiva! You indeed are the most worshipful among the Worshipful!

If not He (Gopishvara), Who is there to excel Him?

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