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True bakthy only for formless god

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Here is more Nonsense

"i will not cry if you stop writing.... being an advaita, for you write or not write is the same.... so save some time and have a lunch"

 

Knowledge

(none)

 

Let me reword one of your nonsense to something sensible & applicable for advaithins in general

Being an advaita, for us to make others feel sorry or not feel sorry is the same.

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As advaithins with spiritual knowledge, it's easy to see the difference of intelligence. One become master of chasing the truth. One also learns to ignore nonsense & ignorance. This is the greatest intelligence required to aspire becoming an advaithins.

 

BTW, I must give you the credit for limit your sharing of info to the knowledge level & avoid nonsense. The vaishnavic approach to sharing information is a lot of knowledge (although ignorant which is np), & also a lot of nonsense).

 

I ask you not to worry about advaithic thinking "due to envy, foolishness and no intelligence since it is stolen by maya" etc. Just leave it.

 

Before you talk of god or relationship with god or use words such as transcedental, you have to realise spirituality to the extent that the experience tells you that you are distinct being from your body/it's desires/ it's insecurity/ it's appreciation of masters/ it's insult of fakes/ it's envy/ it's judgement of right/wrong etc. The spirituality should provide you the experience that you are different. This is your first experience of jivatma knowledge. This can happen even without the awareness that the differentiatedness in the world is all illusion or Maya.

 

This knowledge of jivatma is common whether you are an advaithin or a vaishnavite claiming transcendental relationship with krishna.

 

Most of the vaishnavites coming to forums consider jivatma as ego (using words such as 'not false ego'). This kind of ziltch spiritual experience and claiming relationship with god from their ego-level will only achieve them the typical distinction that "they are not-athiests" as they are just like any western religions, who are also so focused on that distinction.

 

This kind of claims as spiritual, bakthy, or transcedental of a relationship between an ego-level to god, is a level of intelligence not yet ready for considering debates such as is vishishta advaitha right, dvaita right or advaitha right. That's why it's said that in vedic religion, mere bookish knowledge fails one.

 

 

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As a transcendental dasa, what is the body of a dasa? What name it will have? Will it remember the dasa dom of this life?

 

 

what is the apparatus in transcendental dasa, which will do transcendental dasa work (karma)?

 

I thought Krishna says in Gita " I do everything". Then what a dasa do?

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*****If there's only one subject there's no love.*****

 

Your love for God is for your own sake. Not for God. If there are two, then always one will love oneself more.

 

 

All love you talk about is love of yourself only. The bliss of bhakti etc. is the bliss of one self alone. You will not accept it openly but you will know it to be true in your heart.

 

Vedantists accept it openly and say that Self (adorable) is God alone.

 

 

 

 

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"This kind of claims as spiritual, bakthy, or transcedental of a relationship between an ego-level to god, is a level of intelligence not yet ready for considering debates such as is vishishta advaitha right, dvaita right or advaitha right."

 

 

Correct. Since, they put body and form above spirit. They are not pure spiritualists.

 

 

Krishna says of Yuktatma Yogis, but these guys think that atma has form.

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Your love for God is for your own sake. Not for God. If there are two, then always one will love oneself more.

••1)you

2)love

3)for your own sake

 

that's not oneness, thats's three..... be honest like buddhists and stop using the word love. In Advaita there's no love, love is transitive, there's a subject and an object.. two, not one

 

-----

Vedantists accept it openly and say that Self (adorable) is God alone.

••they say and accept but they do not experience.. because under advaitist logic is absurd

 

-------

 

Correct. Since, they put body and form above spirit.

••you judge the spirit with human eyes, thinking that when you see a form, you are seing a HUMAN form. That's wrong. God is everything and He's also form

 

Krishna says of Yuktatma Yogis

••Krsna says "(you) surrender to me"... "(you)think of me"...... "(you)offer to me patram, pushpam etc..".. two subjects, not one. In this way we get Bhakti Yoga, love. now love is possible

 

------

 

these guys think that atma has form.

•••yes.. where do you think that the shape of your body comes from?.............. satan?....

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# THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH IS KNOWN IN HIS ETERNALLY EXISTING THREE FEATURES

vadanti tat tattva vidas

tattvam yaj gyanam advayam

brahmeti paramatmeti

bhagavan iti sabdyate

 

“The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.11)

 

# brahmano hi pratishtaham

Brahman is also subordinate to the complete Supreme Person KRISHNA

 

# JUST AS A POTTER WITHOUT A BODY CANNOT SHAPE CLAY, SO A FORMLESS GOD CANNOT GIVE FORM TO THE MATERIAL WORLD.

Truth is impersonal are described as abuddhayah, which means those who do not know the ultimate feature of the Absolute Truth. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated that supreme realization begins from the impersonal Brahman and then rises to the localized Supersoul—but the ultimate word in the Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead.

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead is also the supreme controller and the supreme performer of activities and, therefore, His form is perfect and eternal. A performer of activities always has a form. No one has ever seen a formless performer of activities. (Mayavada shata dushani 37)

 

The transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is elaborately described in all the Vedas. That celebrated form is very handsome, and it completely delights the senses of all the devotees. That transcendental form is endowed with the six opulences of all beauty, strength, fame, knowledge, wealth, and renunciation. The sacred Ganges river is the water that has washed the Lord's lotus feet. (Mayavada shata dushani 46)

 

Just as a troop of insects resides within a ripe udumbara fruit, all the material universes, composed of subtle and gross material elements and populated by innumerable spirit souls, rest within the form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead during the time of cosmic devastation, and then emerge at the time of cosmic creation. At that time they do not rest within the Lord. In truth, they remain always separate from Him. O Mayavadi teacher, I am not as great as He. How is it possible or sensible for the slogan so 'ham ("I am the Supreme") to come from my mouth?

(Mayavada shata dushani 111)

 

In the Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.16.29) it is said: 'O Dharma, protector of religious principles, all noble and sublime qualities are eternally manifested in the person of Krsna, and devotees and transcendentalists who aspire to become faithful also desire to possess such transcendental qualities.' " It is therefore to be understood that Lord Sri Krsna, the transcendental form of absolute bliss, is the fountainhead of all pleasurable transcendental qualities and inconceivable potencies.

 

# THE RESULT OF IMPERSONAL WORSHIP BY MAYAVADI

andham tamah pravisanti

ye ’sambhUtim upAsate

tato bhUya iva te tamo

ya u sambhUtyAm ratAh

Those who are engaged in the worship of demigods enter into the darkest region of ignorance, and still more so do the worshipers of the impersonal Absolute. (Isopanisad 12)

 

# THE FALL DOWN OF BRAHMAVADI

ye 'nye 'ravindaksa vimukta-maninas

tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayah

aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah

patantya adho 'nadrta-yusmad-anghrayah

 

Persons who are falsely puffed up, thinking they have become liberated simply by understanding their constitutional position as Brahman, or spirit soul, are factually still contaminated. Their intelligence is impure because they have no understanding of the Personality of Godhead, and ultimately they fall down from their puffed-up position.

 

# FOOLISH MAYAVADIS CANNOT UNDERSTAND KRISHNA

avyaktam vyaktim apannam

manyante mam abuddhayah

param bhavam ajananto

mamavyayam anuttamam

[unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.] (Bg 7.24)

 

naham prakasah sarvasya

yoga-maya-samavrtah

mudho 'yam nabhijanati

loko mam ajam avyayam

[i am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible.] (Bg 7.25)

# KRISHNA, THE HIGHEST TRUTH

mattah parataram nanyat

kincid asti dhananjaya

mayi sarvam idam protam

sutre mani-gana iva

[O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.] (Bg 7.7)

 

param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan:

"You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth." [bg. 10.12]

 

# ONLY REAR SOULS KNOW KRISHNA

manusyanam sahasresu

kascid yatati siddhaye

yatatam api siddhanam

kascin mam vetti tattvatah

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

 

# THE ULTIMET SURRENDER

bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate

vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhah

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare" (Bg. 7.19).

 

# THE BEST PERSON

tesam jnani nitya-yukta

eka-bhaktir visisyate

priyo hi jnanino 'tyartham

aham sa ca mama priyah

[one who is in full knowledge and who is always engaged in pure devotional service (bhakti) is the best. For I am very dear to him, and he is dear to Me.]

 

# THE BEST ACIVITY

arjuna uvaca

evam satata-yukta ye

bhaktas tvam paryupasate

ye capy aksaram avyaktam

tesam ke yoga-vittamah

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

mayy avesya mano ye mam

nitya-yukta upasate

sraddhaya parayopetas

te me yuktatama matah

Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: 'He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be the most perfect.'" (Bhagavad-gita 12.1,2)

 

# ON TRANSCENDENTAL PLATFORM THERE IS NO QUESTION OF UNITY, IT IS THE BEGINNING OF SUDDHA BHAKTI

brahma-bhutah prasannatma

na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu

mad-bhaktim labhate param

[bg. 18.54]

One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.

 

# GOING BACK TO KRISHNA

janma karma ca me divyam

evaM yo vetti tattvatah

tyaktvA deham punar janma

naiti mAm eti so ’rjuna

One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.

 

# GOD'S ETERNAL SPIRITUAL FORM

natah param parama yad bhavatah svarupam

ananda-matram avikalpam aviddha-varcah

pasyami visva-srjam ekam avisvam atman

bhutendriyatmakam adas ta upasrito 'smi

 

SYNONYMS

na--not; atah--than this; param--more supreme; parama--O supreme one; yat--which; bhavatah--of Your Lordship; sva-rupam--the personal form; ananda--of transcendental bliss; matram--only; avikalpam--where there is no creation; aviddha--without contamination; varcah--having an effulgence; pasyami--I see; visva-srjam ekam--who alone has created this universe; avisvam--not belonging to the destructible material world; atman--O Supreme Soul; bhuta-indriya-atmakam--the original cause of the senses and the living beings; adah--transcendental; te--unto You; upasritah asmi--I take full shelter.

 

O my Lord, I do not see a form superior to Your present form of eternal bliss and knowledge. In Your impersonal Brahman effulgence in the spiritual sky, there is no occasional change and no deterioration of internal potency. I surrender unto You because whereas I am proud of my material body and senses, Your Lordship is the cause of the cosmic manifestation and yet You are untouched by matter. (Shrimad Bhagavatam 3.9.3)

 

 

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1)The a transcendental dasa does not identify himself with the body, for hime the body is only an outer cover,

 

2)Again the there is only one name for the him and ie DASA - meaning servant

 

3)Yes when the dasa reaches Vaikunta or Goloka he can see all his past lives , otherwise no

 

4)If one is a pure dasa of Krishna then he actually does nothing he is completely surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme and in this case Krishna does everything , dasa will be just like a Puppet. Otherwise dasa (impure unsurrendered) will try to win over this material nature and try acting independently and will be lost in the end. In both the cases directly or indirectly Krishna is the only one who does.

 

Hope that cleared ur doubts

 

Sing the glories of the Lord Hari and make your life successful

 

Hari hari bol

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Again you are pouring in bookish knwoledge and logic with ziltch experience of spirituality and jeevatma level. Forget that there is maya or debating that differentiatedness, & hierarchy is real. Just realize what's jeevatma first, and seperate it from your body, ego, it's beliefs of what's nice/not-nice, it's biases, it's prejudices.

 

Without that all your interpretation of scriptures have no merit.

 

Krishna says in BG.

"Those who worship the imperishable, the undefineable, the omnipresent, the unthinkable, the unchanging, the immovable, the eternal brahman, retstraining their senses, even minded under all circumstances, enagaged in welfare of creatures, attain me."

 

Krishna asknowledges for the benefit of the average emobdied human being that" self-realization is difficult". Therefore suggests an alternate path for the avaerage embodied human beings. This shows krishna's indiscriminate compassion to elevate all being to self realise to the spirituality.

 

This compassion of krishna to all beings is being misused by people having no experience of spirituality or jeevatma like the vaishnava-crowd-in-general. These people never get tired of their inferirority-complex, that there exists others who are self-realised in spirituality and above the average embodied human bengs.

 

I call this inferiority complex as the current vaishnavas with no knowledge and goal on spirituality , are bent upon insulting people who have experienced spirituality or aspiring for the path. Are you guys saying that this inferiority-complex of your's to the spirituality progressed people, doesn't hurt lord krishna.

 

Poor Lord krishna would be holding himself responsible for this inferirority complex of vaishnavas, if this continues. Instead the spiritually realized people regard krishna's guidance for the average embodied human beings, as his compassion for one and all.

 

You vaishnavas will stop hurting krishna and his compassion for one & all, only when you stop making noise without controlling the instincts from your inferiority complex.

 

There is aparadha for sure that you guys do to krishna & vishnu in this form of uncontrolled inferiority complex. You vaishnavas can continue trying to convince us we advaithins that you guys regard krishna way above we guys do. Whether you vaishnavas manage to convince us or not, it realy doesn't matter to Lord krishna.

The aparadha is done

-as you are not focused on him and busy convincing us with you show-off of praying to krishna with no spriritual knowledge.

-as you insult those who aspire or are spiritually realised and made progress in their spiritual goals, only to admire krishna's compassion for one & all, and continue serving lord krishna on the line he's asked us.

 

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Hare Krishna

 

I want to let you know that only one who have proper understanding of gyan can attain vigyan. But you obviously have no any proper understanding of gyan. The shloka you quoted from the Bhagavad-gita is out of context. It is right after the sloka where Krishna explains the superiority of His Personal worship. After the impersonal process of meditation He again praises bhakti. If you want to argue then do it properly.

 

# THE BEST ACIVITY

arjuna uvaca

evam satata-yukta ye

bhaktas tvam paryupasate

ye capy aksaram avyaktam

tesam ke yoga-vittamah

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

mayy avesya mano ye mam

nitya-yukta upasate

sraddhaya parayopetas

te me yuktatama matah

Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: 'He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be the most perfect.'" (Bhagavad-gita 12.1,2)

 

ye tu sarvani karmani

mayi sannyasya mat-parah

ananyenaiva yogena

mam dhyayanta upasate

 

tesam aham samuddharta

mrtyu-samsara-sagarat

bhavami na cirat partha

mayy avesita-cetasam

But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Prtha—for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.

 

# HOW TO ATTAIN THE SUPREME ABODE

purusah sa parah partha

bhaktya labhyas tv ananyaya

yasyantah-sthani bhutani

yena sarvam idam tatam

The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is greater than all, is attainable by unalloyed devotion. Although He is present in His abode, He is all-pervading, and everything is situated within Him.” [bg. 8.21]

 

# TO OVERCOME MAYA - SURRENDER TO KRISHNA

daivi hy esa guna-mayi

mama maya duratyaya

mam eva ye prapadyante

mayam etam taranti te

“This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.” [bg. 7.14]

 

# THE MAYAVADI IMPIOS PHILSOPHY

"The Mayavada philosophy," Lord Siva informed his wife Parvati, "is impious [asac-chastra]. My dear Parvati, in the form of a brahmana in Kali-yuga I teach this imagined Mayavada philosophy. In order to cheat the atheists, I describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead to be without form and without qualities. Similarly, in explaining Vedanta I describe the same Mayavada philosophy in order to mislead the entire population toward atheism by denying the personal form of the Lord." (Padma Purana)

 

# KRISHNA PRAISNG THE MAYAVADIS

avajananti mam mudha

manusIm tanum asritam

param bhavam ajananto

mama bhuta-mahesvaram

“Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.” [bg. 9.11]

 

# WHO DON'T SURRENDER

na mam duskrtino mudhah

prapadyante naradhamah

mayayapahrta-jnana

asuram bhavam asritah

“Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.” [bg. 7.15]

 

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect. [bg 12.2]

 

Please, chant Hare Krishna and be happy.

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Again you are pouring in bookish knwoledge and logic

•••so it is manifest that you have no knowledge and no logic... otherwise you accepted debate

 

Just realize what's jeevatma first, and seperate it from your body

••realized.. jivatma is me, body is a dress, god is my eternal lord

 

for the remaining part of your message call for a psychiatrist

 

 

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I have told you guys before. Here is the knowledge and aspiration difference.

 

I tell, Focus on the experience of spirituality first at the jeevatma level (this is applicable for vaishnavas also in the true dharmic sense)

- & you guys keep repeating that Jeevatma is a ego (a non-spiritual and non-dharmic experience)

 

I have told you that I don't want your interpretation of scriptures without spirituality or what you consider as god

-And you keep showing off your 'mundane' non-spiritual interpretation of scriptures & god with mundane logic

 

I told you that you are hurting krishna, as you load insults upon the people apsiring the spiritual path & whom krishna considers dear. Krishna speaks compassionately for the people who find it DIFFICULT to attain spiritual realization, and suggest bakthy as the path for those.

- You continue loading insults on spiritual path & advaitha hurting krishna directly.

 

 

Here is your nonsense

- (Nitairam) Quoatation from scriptures regarding fools & demi-gods, (inappropriate to spiritual & advaithic relaization)

- (guest) for the remaining part of your message call for a psychiatrist

 

O.k. ....right

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"I tell, Focus on the experience of spirituality first at the jeevatma level (this is applicable for vaishnavas also in the true dharmic sense)

- & you guys keep repeating that Jeevatma is a ego"

 

that's result of spiritual experience.. jivatma is our eternal individuality.. no doubt

 

if you experience oneness it is very strange that you are speaking "individually" writing in this forum

 

"Here is your nonsense

(guest) for the remaining part of your message call for a psychiatrist"

 

you're right....call two psychiatrists,, this makes more sense

 

---

 

you have no arguments so you haven't any realization

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Hello,

 

I am reading your discussion and I want to tell you few things.

 

It's an Interesting debate but poor in quoting scriptures. Only that Nitairam gave some good quotations the advaitins did not answer almost any challenge. But the general tendency is that you guys are insulting each other. Why you don't take out those insults and just discuss respectfully?

 

Vaishnavas understand very well they are the soul and not only that, but also that the souls is eternal servant of God. Realizing the self as different from the body is only the very beginning of spiritual life.

 

brahma-bhutah prasannatma

na socati na kanksati

samah sarvesu bhutesu

mad-bhaktim labhate param

[bg. 18.54]

One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service (bhakti) unto Me, Krishna.

 

So, what now? One can choose to become God or to serve God. As Nitai said envy or love. Bhakti is there only when there are at least two persons - the bhakta and God. And if you think yourself God since He is the supreme enjoyer you can enjoy everything. Why not? You are God. And if you don''t enjoy everything how you can be God. So, here is the material world please enjoy it, gods like you can enjoy it better then materialists.

 

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As always, anyone with a different view is treated with cynicism.

 

 

*******

Your love for God is for your own sake. Not for God. If there are two, then always one will love oneself more.

••1)you

2)love

3)for your own sake

 

that's not oneness, thats's three..... be honest like buddhists and stop using the word love. In Advaita there's no love, love is transitive, there's a subject and an object.. two, not one

**********

 

 

Excellent. Love for oneself becomes three. True, that is how you see many in what is ONE. True.

 

You have proven it yourself.

 

 

 

*********

-----

Vedantists accept it openly and say that Self (adorable) is God alone.

••they say and accept but they do not experience.. because under advaitist logic is absurd

-------

 

Correct. Since, they put body and form above spirit.

**************

 

 

Oh, is that so?

 

Narayana Suktam

Verse V:

Narayana abides pervading whatever is seen or heard in this Universe, whatever is within and without.

Verse VI:

I worship the Infinite and Immutable Seer who is the other end of the Ocean (of Samsara) and the source of all happiness.

The Hridayam (the heart which is the place of meditation) resembles an inverted lotus bud.

Verse VII:

A span below the throat and above the navel there burns a fire from which flames are rising up. That is the great support (basis of existence) of the Universe.

Verse VIII:

It always hangs down from the arteries like a lotus bud. In the middle of it there is a tiny orifice in which all are firmly supported.

Verse IX:

In the middle of it there is a great fire with innumerable flames blazing on all sides which first consumes the food and the distributes it to all parts of the body. It is the immutable and all-knowing.

Verse X:

Its' rays constantly shoot upwards and downwards. It heats the body from head to foot. In the middle of it there is a tongue of fire, which is extremely small.

Verse XI:

It is dazzling as a streak of lightning in the midst of a dark cloud and as thin as the awn at the tip of a grain of rice, golden bright and extremely minute.

 

 

 

*****

Krishna says of Yuktatma Yogis

••Krsna says "(you) surrender to me"... "(you)think of me"...... "(you)offer to me patram, pushpam etc..".. two subjects, not one. In this way we get Bhakti Yoga, love. now love is possible

******

 

This he says to you and me. Yogis do not need patram, pushpam etc.

 

------

 

these guys think that atma has form.

•••yes.. where do you think that the shape of your body comes from?.............. satan?....

 

 

Yes. The desire.

 

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***********

# brahmano hi pratishtaham

Brahman is also subordinate to the complete Supreme Person KRISHNA

*************

 

A lie.

 

BG 8.3 Aksharam brahma paramam swabhaavo’dhyaatmamuchyate;

Bhootabhaavodbhavakaro visargah karmasamjnitah.

8.3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme; His essential nature is called Self-knowledge; the offering (to the gods) which causes existence and manifestation of beings and which also sustains them is called action.

 

Aksharam brahma paramam

 

 

***********

# JUST AS A POTTER WITHOUT A BODY CANNOT SHAPE CLAY, SO A FORMLESS GOD CANNOT GIVE FORM TO THE MATERIAL WORLD.

************

 

So, there were two things in the beginning; a potter and clay?

 

But as far as I know:

 

Purusha, who exists as a flame as small as a rice grain in the hridaya was alone in the beginning?

 

 

 

Who is this mayavadi? what is definition of mayavadi?

 

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******

So, what now? One can choose to become God or to serve God.

**********

 

I can see no such claim by anyone in this post? Are you talking of some other thread?

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1. The doctrines of all religions contradict each other. they wage war, collide with each other, and finally die.

 

2. In this battlefield all the religions retreat defeated when they stand before mauna, which abides beneficiently, sustaining them all.

 

3. The rare and wonderful power of mauna is that it remains without enmity towards any of the religions.

 

4. The many religions are appropriate to the maturity of each individual, and all of them are acceptable to the reality.

 

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SM744,

 

from which country you are from please?

curious, becaue you do not know how to pronounce or spell the word bhakti. my geuss is you are not a vedic person.

no proble, but we can respond better if we know you a bit.

 

does SM mean Sunni Muslim?

 

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Let's remember that no were in vedas is there reference to bhakti mentioned. It starts with BG. And in BG we see compassion of krishna to spiritually elevate every human being.

 

So for the first time in scriptures BG mentions of the average embodied human beings finding it difficult to self-realize spiritually, and Krishna advices of bhakti path for this. For the benefit of delivering BG to the average embodied human beings, arjuna plays their role and Krishna show the passion to those feelings and encourages bhakti.

 

This is a message of love from krishna for one and all, and not hate and abuse/insult upon the spiritually mature thinking of advaitha which is so dear to krishna.

 

Shall note on the spelling Bhakti. Thank you. For your doubts on my name & origin, I suggest you go fall at your guriji's feet assuring him that you shall never, never, ever show too much inquisitiveness and forget the fact that in true surrender to Krishna, there is no place for such inquisitiveness.

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Brahman is the effulgence of the Lord's transcendental body.

The conclusions of the Srutis.

 

7. 4

na tatra suryo bhati candra-tarakam

nema vidyuto bhanti kuto'yamagni

tameva bhantam anubhati sarvam

tasya bhasa sarvam idam vibhati

 

In the transcendental abode of the Lord there is no need of sun, moon, or stars for illumination, nor is there any need of electricity, what to speak of ignited lamps. On the other hand, it is because those planets are self-illuminating that all effulgence has become possible. Whatever there is that is dazzling is due to the reflection of the divine abode of the Lord. The Supreme Godhead is so brilliantly self-luminous that neither the sun, nor the moon, nor stars nor lightning have any power of illumination in his transcendental abode, and what to speak of fire. It is a fact that all of them get their power of illumination from His effulgence alone. In fact, it is only because of His existence that the whole universe exists. (Katha Upanisad 2.2.25)

 

7. 5

hiranmayena patrena satyasyapihitam mukham

tat tvam pusann-apavrnu satya-dharmaya dsthaye

 

O my Lord! Sustainer of all that lives: Your real real face is covered by your dazzling effulgence. Please remove that effulgent covering and exhibit yourself to your pure devotee. (^sopanisad 15)

 

7. 6

pusann akarye yama surya prajapatya-vyuha-rasmin samuha

tejo yat te rupam kalyanatamam tatte pasyami

 

O my Lord! O primeval philosopher, maintainer of the universe. O regulating principle, destination of the pure devotees, well-wisher of the progenitors of mankind - please remove the effulgence of your transcendental rays, so that I can see your form of bliss. You are the eternal Supreme Personality of Godhead, like unto the sun as am I.(Isopanisad 16)

 

The conclusion of Brahma-samhita

 

7. 7

yasya prabha prabhavato jagadandakoti-

kotisvasesavasudhadi-vibhuti-bhinnam

tad brahma niskalam-anantam-asesa-bhutam

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

 

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord whose effulgence is the source of the nondifferentiated Brahman which is mentioned in the Upanisads, and which, being differentiated from the infinite of glories of the mundane universe, appears as the indivisible, infinite and limitless truth. Millions and millions of universes emanate from that Brahman effulgence, which is infinite, causeless, and unlimited. That Brahman effulgence is simply the emanation of light coming from the brilliant form of the Supreme Lord Govinda. (Brahma-Samhita 5.40)

 

The conclusion of Bhagavad-gita

 

7. 8

brahmano hi pratistaham amrtas avyayasya ca

sasvatsya ca dharmasya sukhasyaikantikasya ca

 

I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal, and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. (Bhagavad-gita 14.27)

 

Taken from from:

http://www.mandala.com.au/gaudiya-kanthahara/7.htm

 

The only problem to accept these very clear scriptural references are desire to speculate and inpure intelligence avishudha buddhaya.

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Excellent. Love for oneself becomes three. True, that is how you see many in what is ONE. True.

You have proven it yourself.

••read better.. i have revealed the fact that speaking of advaitic love is illogic. I LOVE MYSELF.. is not one who turns in three or three who turns in one. I LOVE MYSELF is three ; subject, object and action.

 

••they say and accept but they do not experience.. because under advaitist logic is absurd

-------

Correct. Since, they put body and form above spirit.

••you can put whatever you want and use any logic.. but if you, as individual, want to preach that you have reached advaita, it is inpossible because to preach there's the need to be an individual and there's the need of listeners. So where is a-dvaita.. non-dual?

 

Oh, is that so?

Narayana Suktam

Verse V:

Narayana abides pervading whatever is seen or heard in this Universe, whatever is within and without.

••yes... narayana abides pervading... subject "narayana" .. actions (abides pervading)... object (whatever..). So individual and omnipervadent simultaneously, inside and outside... GOD... omnipotent

 

---

 

••Krsna says "(you) surrender to me"... "(you)think of me"...... "(you)offer to me patram, pushpam etc..".. two subjects, not one. In this way we get Bhakti Yoga, love. now love is possible

******

This he says to you and me. Yogis do not need patram, pushpam etc.

••••that's not in gita, that's in your fantasy.. gita is for everyone, even liberated souls

 

-----

 

•••yes.. where do you think that the shape of your body comes from?.............. satan?....

Yes. The desire.

••everything comes from god, and everything, in its perfect aspect, is a god's quality (bhagavan (who possess everything), krsna (who has all attractions)) even the forms and desires

 

 

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Dandavat pranams

 

Here are some of my notes on your discussion.

 

The soul is Brahman but not God. When the living entity is called Brahman he is certainly not the supreme Brahman and it will never merge into the supreme Brahman. Rather it will eternally keep its personality as Krisha explains this to Arjuna.

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

aksaram brahma paramam

svabhavo 'dhyatmam ucyate

bhuta-bhavodbhava-karo

visargah karma-samjnitah

The Supreme Lord said, The indestructible, transcendental living entity is called Brahman, and his eternal nature is called the self. Action pertaining to the development of these material bodies is called karma, or fruitive activities.

 

All the individual souls are Brahman but never become one with the supreme Brahman

 

na tvevAhaM jAtu nAsaM na tvaM neme janAdhipAH

na chaiva na bhavishhyAmaH sarve vayamataH param.h

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. (Bg 2.12)

 

This plurality certainly does not refer to bodily existence what was already before condemned by Krishna but rather it refers to the spiritual plurality - the individual souls.

 

nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam

eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman

“He is the one supreme eternal being among all eternal beings, and the one supreme conscious being among all conscious beings. He alone is fulfilling the desires of everyone.” (Katho Upanisad 2.13) and (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.10)

 

Therefor, Brahman never becomes multiplied into many souls that are now conditioned? Why would Brahman accept suffering of the material world? How is it possible for Him to be covered by illusion and forgetfulness?

 

maitreya uvaca

seyam bhagavato maya

yan nayena virudhyate

isvarasya vimuktasya

karpanyam uta bandhanam

Brahman, or the Personality of Godhead, is overcome by illusion, or mAyA, and at the same time they maintain that He is unconditioned. This is against all logic. (Bhagavatam 3.7.9)

 

avyaktam vyaktim apannam

manyante mam abuddhayah

param bhavam ajananto

mamavyayam anuttamam

Unintelligent men, who do not know Me perfectly, think that I, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, was impersonal before and have now assumed this personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is imperishable and supreme.

 

THE THREE FEATURES OF THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH

vadanti tat tattva vidas

tattvam yaj gyanam advayam

brahmeti paramatmeti

bhagavan iti sabdyate

 

“The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.2.11)

 

Brahman

jneyam yat tat pravaksyami

yaj jnatvamrtam asnute

anadi mat-param brahma

na sat tan nasad ucyate

I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. Brahman, the spirit, beginningless and subordinate to Me, lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world. (Bg 13.13)

 

brahmano hi pratisthaham

amrtasyavyayasya ca

sasvatasya ca dharmasya

sukhasyaikantikasya ca

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness. (Bg 14.27)

 

tanhara angera sudha kirana-mandala

upanisat kahe tanre brahma sunirmala

What the Upanisads call the impersonal Brahman is but the realm of the glowing effulgence of the Supreme Person. (Cc. Adi. 2.12)

 

Paramatma

drishtam srutam bhuta-bhavad-bhavishyat

sthasnus carishnur mahad alpakam ca

vinacyutad vastu taram na vacyam

sa eva sarvam paramatma-bhutah

Nothing can be said to exist independent of Lord Acyuta—nothing heard or seen, nothing in the past, present or future, nothing moving or unmoving, great or small. He indeed is everything, for He is the Supreme Soul. (Bhagavatam 10.46.43)

 

bandhur atmatmanas tasya

yenatmaivatmana jitah

anatmanas tu satrutve

vartetatmaiva satru-vat

For one who has conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached, for he has attained tranquillity. To such a man happiness and distress, heat and cold, honor and dishonor are all the same. (Bg 6.7)

 

Bhagavan

om tad visno paramam padam sada

pasyanti surayah diviva caksur-atatam

tad vipraso vipanyavo jagrvamsah

samindhate visnor yat paramam padam

The supreme abode of Lord Visnu, or the lotus feet of Lord Visnu, is spread all around like the sunlight in the sky. Great demigods and saintly persons always see that supreme abode, recognizing Him as the highest truth. Spiritually awake souls learned in transcendental understanding glorify the Lord and make that abode more brilliant. (Rg Veda 1.22.20,21)

 

ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam

indrari-vyakulam lokam mrdayanti yuge yuge

All these incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of plenary portions of the Supreme Lord, but Lord Sri Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. All the other incarnations appear whenever there is a disturbance created by the enemies of Indra. (Bhag. 1.3.28)

 

isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah

anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam

Krsna, who is known as Govinda, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has a transcendental form of eternal bliss and knwledge. He is the origin of all and the cause of all causes. (Brahma-samhita 5.1)

 

suta uvaca

yam brahma varunendra-rudra-marutah stunvanti divyaih stavair

vedaih sanga-.-kramopanisadair gayanti yam sama-gah

dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yogino

yasyantam na viduh surasura-gana devaya tasmai namah

I offer my obeisances unto Sri Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahma, Rudra, Indra, Varuna and all the other demigods glorify Him by chanting transcendental hymns and reciting the Vedas and Upanisads. He is the Supreme Person of whom the chanters of the Sama Veda always sing. The perfected yogis see Him within their minds after fixing themselves in trance and absorbing themselves within him. His limit can never be found by any demigod or demon. (Bhag. 12.13.1)

 

The renunciation of advaitins = no perfection

na karmanam anarambhan

naiskarmyam puruso 'snute

na ca sannyasanad eva

siddhim samadhigacchati

Not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom from reaction, nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection. (Bg 3.4)

 

SURRENDER OF ONE IN KNOWLEDGE

aham sarvasya prabhavo

mattah sarvam pravartate

iti matva bhajante mam

budha bhava-samanvitah

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. (Bg 10.8)

 

Devotees are nothing less then mayavadis

jara-marana-moksaya

mam asritya yatanti ye

te brahma tad viduh krtsnam

adhyatmam karma cakhilam

Intelligent persons who are endeavoring for liberation from old age and death take refuge in Me in devotional service. They are actually Brahman because they entirely know everything about transcendental activities. Bg 7.29

 

THE BEST ACIVITY

arjuna uvaca

evam satata-yukta ye

bhaktas tvam paryupasate

ye capy aksaram avyaktam

tesam ke yoga-vittamah

 

sri-bhagavan uvaca

mayy avesya mano ye mam

nitya-yukta upasate

sraddhaya parayopetas

te me yuktatama matah

 

Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service or those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: 'He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be the most perfect.'" (Bhagavad-gita 12.1,2)

 

WHO CAN UNDERSTAN THE IMPORTANCE OF BHAKTI AND KRISHNA - NOT THE ADVAITIN

 

sa evayam mayA te 'dya

yogah prokta purAranah

bhakto 'si me sakhA ceti

rahasyam hy etad uttamam

That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science. (Bg 4.3)

 

WHO CANNOT UNDERSTAND AND DON'T SURRENDER IS CALLED

 

mayaya apahrita jnani

one whose knowledge is stolen by illusion.

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good.

 

bhakti is a word in a few vedic languages like hindi.

it is from sanskrit word bhakta, and bhakti.

ch. 12 of gita is bhakti yoga, as you might know.

 

puranas have the words bhakta and bhakti.

 

as gita is the summary of the vedas,

then the vedas do talk about bhakti in one way or another.

 

one who as kshatriya spirit,

will think of name and origin.

a kshatriya is as dharmi as a brahmana.

 

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There are many references on bhakti in Srimad Bhagavatam (amalam puranam). Here are few of them.

 

1.2.7

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogah prayojitah

janayaty asu vairagyam

jnanam ca yad ahaitukam

By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krishna, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.

 

1.2.20

evam prasanna-manaso

bhagavad-bhakti-yogatah

bhagavat-tattva-vijnanam

mukta-sangasya jayate

Thus established in the mode of unalloyed goodness, the man whose mind has been enlivened by contact with devotional service to the Lord gains positive scientific knowledge of the Personality of Godhead in the stage of liberation from all material association.

 

1.5.35

yad atra kriyate karma

bhagavat-paritoshanam

jnanam yat tad adhinam hi

bhakti-yoga-samanvitam

Whatever work is done here in this life for the satisfaction of the mission of the Lord is called bhakti-yoga, or transcendental loving service to the Lord, and what is called knowledge becomes a concomitant factor.

 

1.7.4

bhakti-yogena manasi

samyak pranihite 'male

apasyat purusham purnam

mayam ca tad-apasrayam

Thus he fixed his mind, perfectly engaging it by linking it in devotional service [bhakti-yoga] without any tinge of materialism, and thus he saw the Absolute Personality of Godhead along with His external energy, which was under full control.

 

1.7.6

anarthopasamam sakshad

bhakti-yogam adhokshaje

lokasyajanato vidvams

cakre satvata-samhitam

The material miseries of the living entity, which are superfluous to him, can be directly mitigated by the linking process of devotional service. But the mass of people do not know this, and therefore the learned Vyasadeva compiled this Vedic literature, which is in relation to the Supreme Truth.

 

2.2.33

na hy ato 'nyah sivah pantha

visatah samsritav iha

vasudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogo yato bhavet

For those who are wandering in the material universe, there is no more auspicious means of deliverance than what is aimed at in the direct devotional service of Lord Krishna.

 

2.3.10

akamah sarva-kamo va

moksha-kama udara-dhih

tivrena bhakti-yogena

yajeta purusham param

A person who has broader intelligence, whether he be full of all material desire, without any material desire, or desiring liberation, must by all means worship the supreme whole, the Personality of Godhead.

 

3.7.12

sa vai nivritti-dharmena

vasudevanukampaya

bhagavad-bhakti-yogena

tirodhatte sanair iha

The misconception of self-identity can be diminished gradually by the mercy of the Personality of Godhead, Vasudeva, through the process of devotional service to the Lord in the mode of detachment.

 

3.15.47

tam tvam vidama bhagavan param atma-tattvam

sattvena samprati ratim racayantam esham

yat te 'nutapa-viditair dridha-bhakti-yogair

udgranthayo hridi vidur munayo viragah

We know that You are the Supreme Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, who manifests His transcendental form in the uncontaminated mode of pure goodness. This transcendental, eternal form of Your personality can be understood only by Your mercy, through unflinching devotional service, by great sages whose hearts have been purified in the devotional way.

 

3.25.18

jnana-vairagya-yuktena

bhakti-yuktena catmana

paripasyaty udasinam

prakritim ca hataujasam

In that position of self-realization, by practice of knowledge and renunciation in devotional service, one sees everything in the right perspective; he becomes indifferent to material existence, and the material influence acts less powerfully upon him.

 

3.25.43

jnana-vairagya-yuktena

bhakti-yogena yoginah

kshemaya .-mulam me

pravisanty akuto-bhayam

The yogis, equipped with transcendental knowledge and renunciation and engaged in devotional service for their eternal benefit, take shelter of My lotus feet, and since I am the Lord, they are thus eligible to enter into the kingdom of Godhead without fear.

 

3.25.44

etavan eva loke 'smin

pumsam nihsreyasodayah

tivrena bhakti-yogena

mano mayy arpitam sthiram

Therefore persons whose minds are fixed on the Lord engage in the intensive practice of devotional service. That is the only means for attainment of the final perfection of life.

 

3.29.1-2

devahutir uvaca

lakshanam mahad-adinam

prakriteh purushasya ca

svarupam lakshyate 'misham

yena tat-paramarthikam

yatha sankhyeshu kathitam

bhakti-yogasya me margam

bruhi vistarasah prabho

Devahuti inquired: My dear Lord, You have already very scientifically described the symptoms of the total material nature and the characteristics of the spirit according to the Sankhya system of philosophy. Now I shall request You to explain the path of devotional service, which is the ultimate end of all philosophical systems.

 

3.29.11-12

mad-guna-sruti-matrena

mayi sarva-guhasaye

mano-gatir avicchinna

yatha gangambhaso 'mbudhau

lakshanam bhakti-yogasya

nirgunasya hy udahritam

ahaituky avyavahita

ya bhaktih purushottame

The manifestation of unadulterated devotional service is exhibited when one's mind is at once attracted to hearing the transcendental name and qualities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is residing in everyone's heart. Just as the water of the Ganges flows naturally down towards the ocean, such devotional ecstasy, uninterrupted by any material condition, flows towards the Supreme Lord.

 

 

 

 

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