True bakthy only for formless god

July 9, 2005

You are a great teacher. But I never said that soul is anhilitated. Soul is ONE -- achedeyam. Apparently divided in beings but ONE.

avyaktadini bhutani

vyakta-madhyani bharata

avyakta-nidhanany eva

tatra ka paridevana

All created beings (the bodies) are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?

What is manifest in unmanifest state?

July 9, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

** avyaktadini bhutani

vyakta-madhyani bharata

avyakta-nidhanany eva

tatra ka paridevana

All created beings (the bodies) are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?

What is manifest in unmanifest state?

# It is very simple. The souls are eternal - never one. Read the thread before - I gave so much reference and explanation from the Gita and the Upanisads.

So, as the souls are eternal they cannot be manifest or non-manifest nor created or annihilated as it is mentioned in the verse.

Therefore, the words: unmanifest and manifest refer only to the material body that is created and annihilated by the material nature.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 10, 2005

"So, as the souls are eternal they cannot be manifest or non-manifest nor created or annihilated as it is mentioned in the verse.

Therefore, the words: unmanifest and manifest refer only to the material body that is created and annihilated by the material nature."

Acchedyo’yam adaahyo’yam akledyo’shoshya eva cha;

Nityah sarvagatah sthaanur achalo’yam sanaatanah.

24. This Self cannot be cut, burnt, wetted nor dried up. It is eternal, all-pervading, stable, ancient and immovable.

That which cannot be cut and is all pervading -- yam -- Self. This Self resides in you. Do you have two Selves?

How does a soul know about its distinct identity apart from other souls?

July 10, 2005

In Bhagavad Gita chapter X shloka 3 Lord Krishna explains the virtues of knowing the entire truth of the cosmic system. Similarly as knowing the Sun we lose interest in the power of a candle, the knower of God, the Almighty Creator of the Cosmos ... comes to understand the whole creation from the angle of God. If you need to understand a painting on a canvas ... you need to view it from the angle of the painter who painted it. For that you may have to understand the thinking process of the painter. Unless you accomplish this you shall not be able to interpret the meaning of the painting ... the abstract art that definitely conveys a meaning of its own. For knowing ... from where flows the water ... you need to go to its source. The moment you reach the source all becomes clear.

In Bhagavad Gita shloka X-3 Lord Krishna explains various facets knowing which one can be understood to achieve the status of the knower of all ... become Omniscient. Here Lord Krishna emphasizes upon the fact that the entity of God is and has always been one without a birth ... the existence of God is from Times Immemorial ... that is without a beginning and an end. God, the Almighty Creator of the Cosmos exists ever since the whole creation came into existence. We are not talking of creation of a single Cosmos but even beyond. The domain of God is not limited to a particular Cosmos, which starts with a big bang and ends with the dissolution of the whole Cosmos ... again to restart as a new Cosmos and a fresh beginning. Life has always been like that ... it is only we Human Beings who are unable to fathom the inner secrets of the cosmic wisdom. God does not have a form ... we Human Beings, owing to the inherent ego present within us assume God to have a form.

God, the Almighty Creator of the Cosmos has always been the mightiest source of all cosmic energy that can be ever imagined by a Human Being. In a nutshell the definition of God can be presented as thus ... the sum total of all purified Atmans (Souls) in the whole Cosmos (the combined energy of all) is what we know as God, the Almighty Creator. What else remains other than God, the Almighty Creator in the whole Cosmos? Virtually nothing! Every Atman (soul) present in the Cosmos is a minuscule form of God, the Almighty Creator. We Human Beings shall never be able to comprehend the power possessed by every Atman (soul) present within all of us.

To comprehend the combined power of all Atmans (Souls) present in the Cosmos would be like a mosquito trying to comprehend the power of the mightiest of all computers present on earth. Yet, Human Beings have been given the power to comprehend even the minutest details of the cosmic system and at a certain stage of time become one with God, the Almighty Creator ... that is to realize God in this very Life and become a man God.

As per Bhagavad Gita shloka X-3 becoming a man God is not praising the self of a Human Being ... for every Human Being who realizes God has to first burn out all his Karma ... negate his ego for ever ... that is permanently surrender his ego to God for ever and always. No ego ... one realizes God ... becomes one with the source itself. Our real self (all dross having been removed for ever) ... the inner self having purified itself fully becomes a potential source of energy ... now, this purified Atman (soul) shines in its cosmic glory for the benefit of the Mankind. Such was the power that manifested in Sri Rama Krishna Paramhansa and Ramana Maharshi. Both these Souls realized God in their Lifetime and thereafter lived purely for the benefit of mankind and the masses. They truly understood the value of Life and taught the Humanity those inspirited Spiritual lessons ... which forms the core of all Spiritual learning and satisfies the inherent craving of every Spiritual seeker.

July 10, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

Acchedyo’yam adaahyo’yam akledyo’shoshya eva cha;

Nityah sarvagatah sthaanur achalo’yam sanaatanah.

24. This Self cannot be cut, burnt, wetted nor dried up. It is eternal, all-pervading, stable, ancient and immovable.

** That which cannot be cut and is all pervading -- yam -- Self. This Self resides in you. Do you have two Selves?

# You again try to interpret something without considering other statements of the sastra. What do you think why Vyasadeva wrote down those verses which you don't like to quote or accept their direct meaning? He wrote down lies? Certainly not. And because you don't accepting all the truth you have accepted this cheating philosophy of Sankara. Actually it is said that he came to bewilder the demons. But anyway.

Here are some more quotes that refer to dualism:

"Prakriti (the material nature) and Purusha (the living entities) are both without a beginning.

"Prakritim Purushams chaiva Viddhi Anadhi ubhe Api" (BG 13.20)

"Having approached the Supreme light, the liberated self maintains himself in his own form"

" Param Jyotir Upasampadhya Svena Rupena Abhi Nishpadhyate" (Chan.up. 8.3.4)

"Narayana is the principal God of gods and beings, the primordial Purusa, the eternal, transcendental Supreme Lord, the highest Atma. (Sri Maha Up.)

"He is the Lord of the individual souls, is eternal, auspicious and inexhaustible"

"Atmeswaram Saaswatham Sivam Achyutam" (Mahanarayana up. 11.3)

NOTE: As the living entities are eternal that means they were never the supreme Brahman. Having spiritual nature they are considered to be a secondary Brahman or less powerful in many ways compared to Para Brahman.

Therefore, one never becomes God nor was one ever before a God. Thus the word "'sarva-gata' — all - pervading" can never be applied to a single nor even many individual souls. It's only sensible meaning is that the souls are found everywhere both in the material and spiritual creation.

The word acchedyah - is mentioned by Krishna to describe the spiritual quality of the soul compared to the material body. Arjuna will cut the bodies of many soldiers but in no one of them he will cut the soul.

Conclusively your question about cutting the all pervasin self have no any sense. As seen from the satra the souls are etenally a particles of God - jiva bhuta sanatanah.

** How does a soul know about its distinct identity apart from other souls?

# You want to say that the soul forgot his real identity as one with God. You cheater. Real knowledge is acquired from satra as the Vedanta sutra 3 says 'satra yonitvat'. But you will never attain real knowledge about the self if you accept the satra partially.

The continuation is the answer on the letter 'Clear (cheating)'

First of all there is a lot of word jugglery and statements not supported by satras. Therefore, the essay don't have any value. Moreover, the realizations of those who are mentioned in the essay is not bona fide when we consider the dualistic statments of the sastras. Here is an interestinging essay I found many years ago on the internet.

In terms of quantity, the individual spirit soul is not equal to the Supreme Soul. Just as a spark from a fire cannot be considered

equal to the fire, or as a sun ray cannot be considered equal to the sun globe (despite the qualitative oneness) the individual spirit

soul-the spark of the Supreme Spirit Soul-cannot be considered equal in all respects to the Supreme Lord.

Unfortunately, this truth has not been realized by countless yogis and transcendentalists. Such people try to equate the minute

spark of God with God Himself and thus go off the path. They correctly appreciate that a person's real essence is spirit, not

matter. They know that a person is not the body. But then they fall into the trap of believing that the individual spirit soul is the

Supreme Spirit Soul Himself.

The chief historical proponent of such "I am God"ism philosophy was Sripad Shankaracharya. Shankaracharya lived and preached

throughout India in the eighth century. The preaching of Shankaracharya and his followers was so strong that, practically

speaking, it drove Buddhism out of India. Today, throughout India and the world, Shankaracharya's teachings (or slight variations of them) are still having a tremendous influence on people.

In Calcutta, India, for example, we can see the ridiculous sight of a starving, sore-infested man meditating on the side of the road,

"I am God. I am God." In America and Europe, you'll find many so-called yogis and gurus who are directly or indirectly in

Shankaracharya's line of teachers. One man, Swami Muktananda, attracted thousands of disciples in America with his "I am God"

teachings. Muktananda states: Honor yourself, love yourself, worship yourself. The God who is within you, is you.3 Rajneesh, infamous for his advocation of "free sex" among his thousands of Western disciples, writes: The word "brahmacharya" means that you have come to attain, you have come to know that you are the Brahman, the ultimate, the divine, that you are God

Himself.4 Satya Sai Baba, India's most famous contemporary mystic and "holy" man, says: You have not heard me fully. I say I am

God. I say also that you are God. The only difference is that I know that you and I are God, and you do not know it.5

The idea of the "I am God"ists is that each of us is actually the Supreme Spirit, but that somehow we forgot our true identity as God and came under the spell of ignorance. So you are supposedly God, the Supreme Being, but you are now caught under the laws of material nature. You are supposedly the Supreme Spirit, but you are now bound on the wheel of birth and death.

Swami Muktananda notes:

. . . the highest consciousness becomes bound by limitations; its primal powers of omniscience, omnipotence, perfection,

ever-lastingness and all-pervasiveness are experienced in a reduced condition. Although omniscient, He knows only a few things; though omnipotent, He feels helpless and acts effectively only in a small sphere. The Master of perfect bliss, He is ensnared in pleasure and pain, attachment and aversion. The Eternal Being cries aloud from fear of death, regarding Himself as mortal. Pervading all space and form, He grieves because He is tied to a particular place and a particular form. This is the condition of shakti poverty; it is the experience of all creatures caught in the transmigratory cycle.

So, according to the Mayavadi philosophers, God becomes bound up on the wheel of birth and death, and this is all due to His having forgotten that He is God. According to this theory, God needs to meditate and struggle against material nature to remember who He is. Being caught in ignorance and misery, God supposedly must then struggle to find Himself through "meditation." Muktananda says: God forgets His own true nature and looks for God. God worships God. God meditates on God, and God is trying to find God.7 Such "I am God"ists fail to ask: "How can God forget who He is? How can God be overcome by ignorance and illusion? How can God, who is the Supreme Controller, lose control?" The fact is, God never forgets who He is. God never comes under the influence of the inferior, material energy. To say that God forgets who He is and that He must then meditate to remember is blasphemy. God by definition means "He who is the Supreme Controller, who is all-wise, all-powerful, the cause of all causes." God does not need to meditate to remember His identity. God knows who He is; He always has and He always will.

O Arjuna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything that has happened in the past, all that is happening

in the present and all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities. But Me no one knows. -BHAGAVAD-GITA 7:26

So there is no question of amnesia for the Supreme Lord. God never forgets His identity, nor anything else. He is not only

unaffected by remembrance and forgetfulness, but He is actually their source.

I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. -BHAGAVAD-GITA 15:15

God never becomes covered by maya or illusion. Ignorance can't cover God. It is one of His energies and it acts under His

direction.

All states of being- be they of goodness, passion, or ignorance- are manifested by My energy. I am, in one sense, everything-but I am independent. I am not under the modes of material nature. -BHAGAVAD-GITA 7:12

# Another interesting point in the letter was Krishna's birth. He says in 10.3 He is unborn still He speake about His own birth. Krishna in the Bg 4.6 uses the term atma-mayaya to explain His appearance. Atma-mayaya means "by My internal energy:. Krishna's birth is extraordinary not like ours. He does not appear by force like we do because of our karma, nor He is subject to the modes of material nature. His birth is therefore not like our birth end therefore, Krishna says He is unborn. How this is bewildering to the conditioned souls and even for the sages is very mentioned by Uddhava, a very dear friend of Krishna.

" O Prabhu! Although You are desireless, You engage in action, although unborn You take birth, and although You are death personified, You run in fear of the enemy and hide in the Dvaraka fort. Although You are self-satisfied, You enjoy with sixteen-thousand women. Seeing these wonderful activities, the intelligence of even great scholars becomes bewildered." (Srimad Bhagavatam 3.4.16)

The mistery of Krishna's eternal identity cannot be understood by speculating like you guys do that all the time. This is explained by Krishna in the Bg 11.53-54

naham vedair na tapasa

na danena na cejyaya

sakya evam-vidho drashtum

drishtavan asi mam yatha

The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

You can understand krishna and your eternal relationship with Him only by cultivating bhakti.

bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya

aham evam-vidho 'rjuna

jnatum drashtum ca tattvena

praveshtum ca parantapa

My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 10, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

The Following piece of essay is from Baladeva Vidyabhushana's Vedanta Shyamantaka. Please, study it very carefully.

THE INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT SOULS

1 Now we will discuss the individual spirit souls (jivas). The individual spirit souls are described as tiny particles of spiritual consciousness. In the Sruti-sastra (Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.9) it is said:

ôThe soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic souls is floating in the five kinds of air (prana, apana, vyana, samana and udana), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities.ö*

In the Sruti-sastra (Svetasvatara Upanisad 5.9) it is also said:

ôWhen the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts, and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul.ö*

The relationship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit souls is described in these words of the Sruti-sastra (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13 and Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.13):

ôOf all eternal beings one is the foremost. Of all conscious beings one is the foremost. That one foremost eternal conscious being fulfils the desires of all the others.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôThe devotees who worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead attain eternal peace. No one else attains true peace.ö

2 Some philosophers make the mistake of thinking there is ultimately only one spirit soul and that one spirit soul is the Supreme. That the existence of many different souls is an illusion, like chariots or other things seen in a dream. This false idea is clearly refuted in the Sruti-sastra, which clearly states that the many spirit souls are individuals eternally.

3 The individual spirit soul each has his distinct consciousness, knowledge, and qualities eternally. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe individual souls are all eternal. Each possesses an individual nature that is never destroyed.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe individual consciousness of each individual spirit soul is never lost.ö

Although he is atomic in size, the individual spirit soul fills with consciousness every part of the external material body. In the Vedanta-sutra it is said:

ôAs the sun fills the universe with light, so the individual soul fills the material body with consciousness.ö

In Bhagavad-gita (13.34) Lord Krsna says:

ôO son of Bharata, as the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness.ö*

4 ôThe individual spirit soul is seen in the word æIÆ. In the dreamless sleep that individual identity, that æIÆ is destroyed.ö Some people may speak in that way about the soulÆs nature. However, this false idea is refuted by the Sruti-sastra, which affirms the soulÆs continued individual existence even during dreamless sleep. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôI slept happily. I did not dream.ö

5 The soul is different from the external material body and from anything else also. Neither does the soul undergo the six kinds of transformations that change the material body. In Srimad Bhagavatam (11.28.24) it is said:

ôThe individual spirit self is not the external material body. Nor is the self the senses, the demigods, the life-air, water, fire, mind, what is nourished by food, intelligence, nature, false ego, ether, earth, a sense object, or oneness with everything.ö

In Srimad Bhagavatam (11.3.38) it is also said:

ôThe individual spirit soul is never born, never dies, never grows, and never decays. He is the knower of the ever-changing material realm. He is eternal. He never ceases to exist. The soul is consciousness. It is a mistake to think the soul is the breath or the material senses.ö

6 The individual spirit soul is a fragmental part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In Bhagavad-gita (15.7) Lord Krsna declares:

ôThe living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal fragmental parts.ö*

7 The individual spirit souls is a performer of activities. He perceives the sense objects. He enjoys pleasures. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe individual spirit soul acquires knowledge. He performs yajnas. He performs activities.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôThe individual spirit souls enjoys what he desires.ö

Some philosophers thin, æThe individual spirit soul is the highest doer, the highest knower, the highest enjoyer. This idea is a foolish mistake. The Supreme Personality of Godhead alone is the highest doer, knower and enjoyer. In Mahabharata, Vana-parva, Yamaraja tells Maharaja Somaka:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead is alone the highest doer, knower, and enjoyer. No one else ever becomes a doer, knower, or enjoyer like Him.ö

8 Here someone may protest: Activities always bring sufferings, and therefore it is not possible for any spiritual being to be a doer of activities. That is the message of the Sruti-sastra.ö

To this I reply: it is not as you think. Material activities, like the darsa and paurnamasa yajnas, are certainly troublesome. But the spiritual pastimes of the Lord and His associates never bring trouble or suffering.

9 Passages from the Sruti-sastra that seem to prove the soul is ultimately inactive do not in truth prove it. The soulÆs nature is seen always to be active, and therefore a condition where no activity is every performed is not possible for the soul. To be active is part of the soulÆs nature. This the sages say. In the same way passages from the Sruti-sastra that seem to prove that the soul has no changes of thoughts or changes of emotions do not in truth prove it. The soulÆs knowledge, qualities, and other features may undergo changes. Still, as the sky never changes, so the spirit soul is never affected by the gross material changes that are part of the material world. The soul remains steady in his existence. His existence continues unchanged, even in dreamless sleep, as is seen in the words; ôI slept happily. I did not dream.ö In this way it is seen that the soul is completely spiritual in nature.

10 The individual spirit souls are dependent on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Vedas it is said:

ôThe Lord engages the living entity in pious activities so he may be elevated. The Lord engages him in impious activities so he may go to hell. The living entity is completely dependent in his distress and happiness. By the will of the Supreme he can go to heaven or hell, as a cloud is driven by the air.ö*

In Vedanta-sutra it is said:

ôThe individual soul is dependent on the Supreme. That is confirmed in the Sruti-sastras.

11 The individual spirit souls are all servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Padma Purana it is said:

ôThe individual spirit souls are all servants of Lord Krsna. They are never servants of anyone else.ö

Here someone may protest: The individual spirit souls cannot ultimately be eternal servants of Lord Krsna, for the souls are by nature formless, impersonal, and devoid of any qualities. This truth is seen in the teachings of the scriptures.

To this I reply. No. It is not as you think. To be a servant of Lord Krsna is the original nature of the individual spirit soul. As butter is extracted from cream by churning, and as fire is extracted from wood by friction, so the individual spirit soulÆs original nature of being a servant of Lord Krsna is manifested by following the teachings of the scriptures.

12 By worshipping the spiritual master the individual spirit soul attains devotional service to Lord Krsna. In this way he attains the true goal of life. In the Sruti-sastra (Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.38) it is said:

ôOnly unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed.ö*

In the Sruti-sastra (Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad) it is also said:

ôA person who has accepted a true spiritual master knows the spiritual truth. He will attain liberation. He will become very fortunate.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôBy faithfully engaging in devotional service one attains the Supreme.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôIn their meditations the sages see the Supreme Personality of Godhead.ö

In Srimad Bhagavatam (11.3.21-22) it is said:

ôAny person who seriously desires to achieve real happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of his spiritual master is that he must have realised the conclusion of the scriptures by deliberation and be able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations are to be understood as bona fide spiritual masters.ö*

ôAccepting his spiritual master as the Deity he worships in his heart, the disciple learns from him the science of devotional service. Lord Krsna, who gives Himself to His devotees, is pleased by such a discipleÆs sincere service.ö

13 Devotional service is described in the scriptures. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôA saintly brahmana places his thoughts on the Supreme Personality of Godhead.ö

After they attain liberation the individual souls continue to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe liberated souls sing the praises of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.ö

In the Sruti-sastra (Rg Veda 1.22.20) it is also said:

ôThe Personality of Godhead Visnu is the Absolute Truth, whose lotus feet the demigods are always eager to see.ö*

14 In this way it is seen that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is handsome and glorious like the moon. He possesses a great host of transcendental qualities, powers, and opulences. He eternally possesses these transcendental qualities to an infinite degree, and the individual spirit souls eternally possess similar transcendental qualities to an infinitesimal degree. That is the eternal distinction between the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit souls. This truth is proved in all the scriptures.

15 Here someone may protest: What are you saying? Never have I heard anything like this. You say the individual spirit soul is different from the Supreme? In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôO Supreme Lord, I am You. What You are I am. You are that.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôEverything is the Supreme. Who sees whom?ö

When he attains liberation, the individual soul and the Supreme are no longer different. Because the difference between them is only an illusion, anyone who thinks they are different is a fool to be rebuked. In the Sruti-sastra (katha Upanisad 2.1.10) it is said:

ôAnyone who sees the soul and the Supreme as different, attains after his death another life and another death in this world.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is also said:

ôA person who think what is inside himself is different from the rest of the world supposedly outside himself attains only fear in this world.ö

16 To this I reply: It is not as you think. In the Sruti-sastra (Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.6 and Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.1) it is said:

ôThe individual spirit soul and the Supersoul, Personality of Godhead, are like two friendly birds sitting on the same tree. One of the birds (the individual atomic soul) is eating the fruit of the tree (the sense gratification afforded to the material body), and the other bird (the Supersoul) is not trying to eat these fruits, but is simply watching His friend.ö*

In the Sruti-sastra (Katha Upanisad 2.1.15) it is also said:

ôWhen pure water is poured into pure water, the two waters become like each other. O wise Naciketa, please know that the individual soul is like that. After liberation he becomes glorious like the Supreme Lord.ö

In the Sruti-sastra (Mundaka Upanisad 3.1.3) it is also said:

ôLiberated from the material world, the individual soul becomes like the Supreme.ö

In this way it is seen that after liberation the individual spirit soul become like the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although they are like each other, the Supreme Lord and the individual spirit soul are still different persons.

17 That after liberation the individual spirit soul remains different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead is confirmed in the Smrti-sastra. In the Sruti-sastra (Bhagavad-gita) Lord Krsna affirms:

ôBy becoming fixed in this knowledge one can attain to the transcendental nature, which is like My own nature. Thus established, one is not born at the time of creation nor disturbed at the time of dissolution.ö*

In the scriptures it is also said:

ôThe individual spirit soul, whose nature is like that of the Supreme Lord, meets the Supreme Lord.ö

The meaning here is that the individual spirit soul has a spiritual nature like that of the Supreme Lord. If one interprets these words to mean that the individual soul merges into the Supreme Lord, one should know that interpretation is contradicted by the scriptures in many places.

Thus your interpretation of Katha Upanisad 2.1.10 and your assertion that anyone who thinks the individual spirit soul and the Supreme are different is a fool worthy to be rebuked are false ideas, lies that should be rejected by the wise, lies that contradict the clear teachings of the scriptures.

18 Some persons may believe that the scripture passage beginning with the words ætvam vaham asmi bhagavoÆ describes a situation where the individual spirit soul and the Supreme are not different. The truth, however, is that the Supreme is the all-pervading supreme master, and the individual spirit souls are always dependent on Him. For his life-breath, for his ability to speak, and for other things also, the individual soul is always dependent on prana (life-breath). This is described in the following discussion of prana (life-breath) in Chandogya Upanisad (5.1.15):

ôIt is not said æthe words independently speakÆ. Nor is it said æthe eyes independently seeÆ. Nor is it said æthe ears independently hearÆ. Nor is it said æthe mind independently thinksÆ. It is the prana (life-force) that arranges speech, sight, hearing and thought.ö

That the Supreme Lord is present everywhere is described in these words of the Smrti-sastra (Visnu Purana):

ôWhoever comes before You, be he a demigod, is created by you, O Supreme Personality of Godhead.* You are the creator of the universes. You are present everywhere.ö

In Bhagavad-gita (11.40) Arjuna tells Lord Krsna:

ôO Lord, You are all pervading, and thus You are everything.ö*

Thus the scripture passage beginning with the words ætvam vaham asmi bhagavoÆ means that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is all-pervading, present in the bodies, senses, and all else of even the liberated souls. In this sense the Supreme Personality of Godhead is everything. Any other interpretation of that scripture passage is useless.

19 Here someone may protest: One may accept or not accept an indirect interpretation of the scripture passage beginning with the words ætvam vaham asmi bhagavoÆ. Still, one should ignore all varieties of qualities, qualities that begin with the SupremeÆs all-pervasiveness and the individual soulÆs minuteness, and instead think only of consciousness. Because they are both consciousness, the Supreme and the Soul are the same.

To this I reply: That is a foolish suggestion. You cannot simply choose to ignore the eternal qualities of the Supreme Lord and the individual souls. Anyway, you cannot say anything about the Supreme, for you think the Supreme is beyond the description of words.

20 Here the protester may say: In the Sruti-sastra (Taittiriya Upanisad 2.4.1) it is said:

ôWords cannot describe the Supreme. Nor can the mind understand Him.ö

Therefore, the Supreme cannot be described.

To this I reply: Please do not think in that way. This passage means that the Supreme cannot be described completely. Not that He cannot be described at all. In Srimad Bhagavatam it is said:

ôNo one can describe the Supreme Lord completely.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôAll the Vedas meditate on the feet of the Supreme Lord.ö

In Bhagavad-gita (15.15) Lord Krsna affirms:

ôBy all the Vedas I am to be known.ö*

The idea that the word æaprayahÆ in Taittiriya Upanisad 2.4.1 means that the Supreme is beyond the descriptive power of words is refuted by all the quotes from the scriptures.

21 Here someone may protest: The individual spirit soul is the Supreme reflected in ignorance. In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôAs the sky, which is one and undivided, is present in many different clay pots, and as the sun, which is one, is reflected in many different bodies of water, so the Supreme Self, which is one, is present in many places simultaneously.ö

When the clay pot is broken, the air within the pot merges with the great totality of air. In the same way, when material ignorance is destroyed, the soul understands that he is actually the Supreme. In this way the philosophy of advaita (oneness) is proved.

To this I reply. Those words are all lies. These ideas, that the all-powerful Supreme is cut into many tiny pieces to form the individual spirit souls, or that the Supreme is like the air in the sky, or that the all-pervading Supreme is like a sun in the sky, a sun reflected in ignorance, are all very foolish. They who know the truth of the Vedas never believe the mistaken ideas of the advaita philosophy.

22 Here someone may protest: The pure conscious spirit being is one and undivided. The idea that spirit is divided into the Supreme Lord and the individual souls comes only from ignorance. That ignorance is like the darkness that covers the sky at night. When the darkness is dispelled then the idea that the Supreme and the individual soul are different is cast away. Then it is known that there is only one spiritual conscious being.

23 To this I reply: These are only a rash, unsubstantiated claims. These descriptions of illusion are not appropriate. It is true that darkness sometimes covers the sky. But the darkness of ignorance never covers the pure knowledge possessed by the Supreme Lord. How will the knowledge possessed by the Supreme be dispelled? What will be changed? Will the knowledge Supreme has be changed or the state of existence in which the Supreme is situated be changed? Because He is eternal, the Supreme cannot fall into illusion. Because He is eternal, the Supreme does not change the state in which He exists. If the Supreme is never illusioned, how can His illusion be dispelled? Only our misconceptions about Him can be dispelled. Here the classic example of a misconception is the idea that the glittering surface of a seashell is made of silver.

24 Here someone may protest: The idea that the Supreme and the individual soul are different is a useless idea not supported by the statements of the scriptures. If in the scriptures such descriptions are sometimes seen, they are only approximate and incomplete descriptions of the truth. They are like the statements æIn the morning the sun rises from the eastern ocean and in the evening the sun enters the western ocean.Æ Such a statement is only an inaccurate approximation, for the sun never actually rises from or enters either of those oceans.

To this I reply: Those statements are all foolish. In the Sruti-sastra (Svetasvatara Upanisad 1.6 and 4.7) it is said:

ôA swan wanders in the great circle of material life. When he learns that he is different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and become active in His service, the swan attains immortality.ö

ôAlthough the two birds are on the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories, at once the suffering bird becomes free of all anxieties.ö*

In this way it is seen that the idea that the Supreme and the individual souls are one is an idea refuted by scripture and also by common sense. The scriptures clearly state that the Supreme is all-powerful and all pervading and the individual spirit souls are infinitesimal. The idea that the Supreme and the individual souls are not different is an illusion, like the illusion of thinking a horn can sprout from a human head. This idea that the Supreme and the individual souls are not different is refuted in the Sruti-sastras, which declare that the Supreme is all powerful and the individual souls are subordinate to Him and depend upon Him. That is the relationship of the Supreme and the individual spirit souls.

25 Are the individual souls identical with or different from the Supreme? The idea that the individual souls are not different from the Supreme and therefore the idea that the conception that they are different is false, is not accepted as truth in the Sruti-sastras. On the other hand, in many places the Sruti-sastra affirm that the individual spirit souls are indeed different from the Supreme. The Sruti-sastras affirm that the Supreme is never lowly and fallen. He is eternally situated in perfection.

26 The idea that the individual spirit souls are not different from the Supreme is never taught in the Sruti-sastras. If the individual spirit souls are not different from the Supreme, then teacher, taught, and knowledge that is taught all have no meaning, for then the teacher and the taught are not different persons.

27 Here someone may protest: To see that the individual souls are different from the Supreme is like seeing a mirage. Therefore there is no need of a teacher and your objection about the teacher is not valid.

To this I reply: These are foolish words. Your example refutes itself. A mirage exists only because water is present in another place. You use the example of a mirage to describe something that does not exist at all, to say that the difference of the individual souls and the Supreme does not exist at all. Therefore the conclusion is that in your philosophy there is neither teacher nor taught. Nor is there any teaching that can be learned.

28 Here someone may protest: Out of ignorance one imagines that the material universe exists, even though the material universe is actually the pure Supreme. This is like mistaking a rope for a snake. In this way the advaita (oneness) philosophy is proved.

To this I reply. These arguments have not been made with care and attention. They fall apart on careful analysis. Who is the person that mistakes a rope for a snake? If you say it is the Supreme, then that is not possible, for the Supreme is always situated in transcendence and always full of knowledge. If you say it is the individual spirit soul, then that is not possible either, for in your conception the individual soul is the Supreme.

29 Are these examples appropriate or not? They are not appropriate to understand the nature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for these examples are themselves different from His nature. Still, the foolish people who push these examples forward do not see their own folly. A fool does not think himself a fool. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond the cause and effect of this material world. Therefore even a philosopher armed with the eight mystic powers cannot understand Him. The example of the air in the clay pots and other like examples are all drawn from the world of causes and effects, of space, time and material actions, and thus they have no bearing on the Supreme Person who is beyond that world. These examples are all like so many fantasies, like flowers imagined to float in the sky. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is beyond the material world. He is not understood by examples drawn from the material world of three things, of causes, effects, and causes and effects mixed together.

30 Employing His spiritual potency (para-sakti), the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the remote cause (nimitta) of the material world. Employing His pradhana-sakti and other material potencies, He is the immediate cause, or ingredient (upadana) of the material world. Because He is Himself the ingredient of which the material world is made, the material world is actually spiritual in its nature. That He is the ingredient of the world is confirmed in these words of the Sruti-sastra:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead desired: I will become many. I will father many children.ö

ôOn Lord VisnuÆs order, Brahma performed austerities. Empowered by his austerities, Brahma created this material universe.ö

In the Sruti-sastra (Isa Upanisad 8) it is said:

ôSuch a person must factually know the greatest of all, who is unembodied, omniscient, beyond reproach, without veins, pure and uncontaminated, the self-sufficient philosopher who has been fulfilling everyoneÆs desire since time immemorial.ö*

In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead personally created this material world.ö

In the Visnu Purana it is said:

ôO best of the sages, The Supreme Personality of Godhead created both the material world and the eternal spiritual world. Pretending to take birth and to die, He appears in this world and then disappears.ö

In the Mahabharata it is said:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead is real. Austerity is real. The demigod Brahma is real. From the real Supreme Personality of Godhead the many living entities are born. Therefore the material world filled with living entities is reality.ö

In the Sruti-sastra it is said:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead is one without a second.ö

The Supreme Personality of Godhead remains hidden in the material world. He is like a green bird that flies into a green tree, and is thus very difficult to find among the foliage.

In this way it is proved that the material world is real, for it was created by the supremely real Supreme Personality of Godhead. The idea that the material world is unreal is thus defeated. As the Sruti-sastra explains:

ôThe Supreme Personality of Godhead desired: I will become many. I will father many children.ö

31 If someone asks: How did the Supreme fall into the illusion of thinking Himself an individual spirit soul? Then I reply: He never fell into illusion. He is supremely independent, when He appears in the material world He does so only by His own will, and he never becomes bewildered about his own identity. Because his knowledge is eternally perfect, He never thinks Himself an individual soul, or a true resident of the material world. In the scriptures it is said:

ôIt is a mistake to think the Supreme is like the ordinary people of this world. The Supreme is eternal and unchanging.ö

In this way it is proved that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is never illusioned and is never like the ordinary residents of the material world. He is always spiritual and beyond the material world. As the silvery glitter on a seashell is different from actual silver purchased in the market place, so the Supreme Personality of Godhead is different from the individual spirit souls. In this way it is proved that the individual souls are all different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are all His servants.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 11, 2005

In middle of discussion, why use words like bluff and such?

If you hold that individual souls are ever and will be eternally separate from Param Atma, then it means that they did not originate from Narayana.

Please read what you have yourself quoted.

Acchedyo’yam adaahyo’yam akledyo’shoshya eva cha;

Nityah sarvagatah sthaanur achalo’yam sanaatanah.

24. This Self cannot be cut, burnt, wetted nor dried up. It is eternal, all-pervading, stable, ancient and immovable.

"In terms of quantity, the individual spirit soul is not equal to the Supreme Soul. Just as a spark from a fire cannot be considered

equal to the fire, or as a sun ray cannot be considered equal to the sun globe (despite the qualitative oneness) the individual spirit

soul-the spark of the Supreme Spirit Soul-cannot be considered equal in all respects to the Supreme Lord. "

Who says that you as a spark is God? Words like cheaters and bluff etc. clearly indicate that "Acchedyo’yam --", in you is not recognised by your mind.

July 11, 2005

The Vedas are very complex, voluminous and scares even the bigger pundits. They are more inclined towards the Ritualistic tendencies (as was the trend about 5000 years ago) when Humanity was in its infancy. (vedas are above 5000 years old ... Who wrote them is not available in the records of Hindu Religions).

For Salvation, it is not compulsory to follow the ritualistic path ... a practice of the yester years ... One does not expect to take a journey from Delhi to Bombay in a bullock cart these days ... Only 100 years ago it was a practiced norm and most comfortable mode of transport.

In the years to come traveling by a conventional vehicle would become obsolete ... We may discover ways to fly in air, travel on water in more complex yet simpler vehicles. Man would have discovered the proper usage of Electro-Magnetic waves, the key to all mysteries of the Universe (Gravitational pull keeps the total Cosmos intact). No two astronomical bodies collide all of a sudden ... Everything has a premeditated route.

Gita, the shortest yet a direct output from Vedas is a sure shot guide for one on its Cosmic journey! Why delay the the inevitable!!

Bhagvad Gita chapter X shloka 1 primarily deals with Lord Krishna exhorting on Arjuna the value of understanding the hidden inner meanings of his statements which are nothing but truth and only truth (here whatever has been stated by Lord Krishna are termed as vachans (words of God) because anything which come from the mouth of Lord Krishna ... God, the Almighty Creator manifesting a Human form can be nothing but the absolute truth). As there is none to defy the accuracy or the Truthfulness of the statements made by Lord Krishna ... everything written in Bhagvad Gita is taken as words of God. Lord Krishna makes all possible attempts to convince Pandava King Arjuna for making him agree for a war ... a war of Dharma, as the opponents are not willing to surrender the kingdom rightfully to Arjuna.

Lord Krishna himself emphasizing that whatever he is stating is nothing but the truth is itself indicative of the efficacy of his words. Lord Krishna knew that whatever be his statements they cannot be understood by a common man ... a person of very high mental caliber with a refined thinking process was required for this and because of this hurdle it became all the more necessary for Arjuna to understand whatever Lord Krishna has to say. The values imbibed in his statements even if disclosed to an ordinary mortal would not be understood by him similarly as anything spoken in a foreign language cannot be understood by people of other Country. Every Human Being has his limitations ... we are not supposed to question the limitations of a person. If it were within the control of an average person to change the value of his limitations everything in the society would change. All would not only become literate but we would enter a golden Era.

Lord Krishna wanted Arjuna to grasp the truth behind his statements ... he also emphasizes on the fact that such statements can only be made by Lord Krishna to those seekers of truth who mean benefit for the Mankind ... those who believe in God and his system totally ... those who have surrendered their will to God. Those who seek nothing for themselves and their family ... those unfearing individuals who are willing to travel the extra mile which none has asked them to travel. Those who have abundance of Faith in God, the Almighty Creator ... only such people can get the benefit of hearing the words of the absolute master. Here Lord Krishna emphasizes that nothing stated by him to Arjuna would cause any harm ... he need not fear anything or anybody. It is true that those who surrender themselves (their will) absolutely to God never have to fear anything in Life. What more can an aspiring Spiritual aspirant ask for!

The road to the abode of God is straight ... there is no cause for worry or fear. Lord Krishna knew that Arjuna alone was competent to travel this path ... he also knew what the outcome of his preachings to Arjuna would be ... yet, he had to take the longer route so that Arjuna does not face any difficulty in understanding the cosmic wisdom in totality. It was to have been a fight to the finish ... a war of Dharma fought between those siding with Dharma (your right to live truthfully) and Adharma (followers of Satan ... the God of darkness). To convince Arjuna for the war was the only aim of Lord Krishna in imparting the preachings of Bhagvad Gita.

All subtle truths require time to comprehend. Only when the Teachings are being imparted by no other than Lord Krishna himself ... does Arjuna find solace in the matter. And this fact is put to use by Lord Krishna by emphasizing upon him again and again to logically understand the chain of events, which has led to the collapse of Dharma in the present society. It was Dwaper Yuga (which had almost the same bearings as in a Kaliyuga) at the time Bhagvad Gita was preached to Arjuna and again the time has come for all of us to understand and grasp the inner meanings of Bhagvad Gita, which shall enable us to live a more lively and eventful Life.

In the domain of God there is no room for any show business. You never conduct any business with God. You do not go to the temple or the church to mark your presence in the books of God ... you need to revere God in your heart ... the very place which acts as a communication link between you and God ... your true self resides in your heart ... you are never away from it. Have unflinching Faith in God and his system ... you shall always come out unscathed in whatever adventure you dare to venture into.

The Eternal Knowledge is totally different from the knowledge gained in the present materialistic World through usage of Science and senses provided by God. Senses help us to proceed on our Earthly journey but do not lend support to the basics of Life ... the Knowledge of Brahman, the Omnipotent Creator! Spiritual Knowledge can only be gained by those blessed few who want to unearth the secrets of God.

Both the paths are totally distinct. One can if he so desires, continue living in this World and gain Knowledge of the other World but, he may face a dilemma ... A crucial one indeed!

Shall he loose all that he has gained in this Life? Of what use is such Spiritual Knowledge if efforts of yester years go waste ... Merely to know god! One must never forget ... Every breath is a gift of God. All we possess is his ... In our possession for the time being!!

What when we leave this body! We only have to act in trust ... Become a trustee par excellence ... Then only can we comply with his bidding!! We never owned anything ... Why fret and fume for the sake of a body which shall be left behind ... When comes the time to leave!!!

Whatever Knowledge we gain of the Lord is not Life merely wasted ... It is a step ahead in our Cosmic journey before the Atman (soul) Emancipates and is free from the cycle of Birth and Death forever.

July 11, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

# Why you practicing plagiarism? Just give a link that's enough and give your comment what is the most important in the text.

Otherwise, I am not at all impressed with the commentary of the Bhagavad-gita of that Vijay Kumar. He is just an another abuddhaya advaitin. After much of flowery text his most important point is:

** the Knowledge of Brahman, the Omnipotent Creator! Spiritual Knowledge can only be gained by those blessed few who want to unearth the secrets of God.

# He is just a jnani - a speculator and not a bhakta. Jnanis don't have the required qualification - devotion to Krishna - to understand the ultimate truth of the Gita. Krishna says to Arjuna: "This same old yoga has been spoken by Me to you - why to you? Bhakto 'si me, sakhe ceti. Because you are My devotee and friend. That means that the confidential (rahasya) knowledge can be understood only by devotees who have devotion. Advaitins they are envious of Krishna. They think they are Krishna. How? "Krishna is Brahman; everybody is Brahman; we and all others are the same Brahman; everybody is God, Krishna." This is envy. "Why to be only eternal part and parcel of Krishna - jiva bhuta sanatana? Why not to be the great God, Brahman. Just neglect the statements in the scriptures about the souls eternal position as part and parcels of God and let's become God - the great." This is all foolishness.

Only when you will finish your envy to Krishna then your devotion will begin and at that time you will gain the qualification to understand Krishna.

manushyanam sahasreshu

kascid yatati siddhaye

yatatam api siddhanam

kascin mam vetti tattvatah

Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth. (Bg 7.3)

bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya

aham evam-vidho 'rjuna

jnatum drashtum ca tattvena

praveshtum ca parantapa

My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding. (Bg 15.54)

sri-bhagavan uvaca

mayy avesya mano ye mam

nitya-yukta upasate

sraddhaya parayopetas

te me yuktatama matah

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: 'He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be the most perfect.'" (Bhagavad-gita 12.2)

Gauranga Nityananda

July 11, 2005

# He is just a jnani - a speculator and not a bhakta. Jnanis don't have the required qualification #

Hare Hare

Yajjnaatwaa na punarmoham evam yaasyasi paandava;

Yena bhootaanyasheshena drakshyasyaatmanyatho mayi.

35. Knowing that, thou shalt not, O Arjuna, again become deluded like this; and by that thou shalt see all beings in thy Self and also in Me!

Api chedasi paapebhyah sarvebhyah paapakrittamah;

Sarvam jnaanaplavenaiva vrijinam santarishyasi.

36. Even if thou art the most sinful of all sinners, yet thou shalt verily cross all sins by the raft of knowledge.

Yathaidhaamsi samiddho’gnir bhasmasaat kurute’rjuna;

Jnaanaagnih sarvakarmaani bhasmasaat kurute tathaa.

37. As the blazing fire reduces fuel to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge reduce all actions to ashes!

Na hi jnaanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate;

Tat swayam yogasamsiddhah kaalenaatmani vindati.

38. Verily there is no purifier in this world like knowledge. He who is perfected in Yoga finds it in the Self in time.

Shraddhaavaan labhate jnaanam tatparah samyatendriyah;

Jnaanam labdhvaa paraam shaantim achirenaadhigacchati.

39. The man who is full of faith, who is devoted to it, and who has subdued all the senses, obtains (this) knowledge; and, having obtained the knowledge, he goes at once to the supreme peace.

Verily there is no purifier in this world like knowledge. He who is perfected in Yoga finds it in the Self in time.

The man who is full of faith, who is devoted to it, and who has subdued all the senses, obtains (this) knowledge; and, having obtained the knowledge, he goes at once to the supreme peace.

Self less karma and stead fast devotion gives knowledge, which is a raft that helps to cross all sins and "thou shalt see all beings in thy Self and also in Me!"

Else, millions of eternal jivas, all eternally bonded.

July 11, 2005

Average embodied humans (vaishnavas) are adviced by krishna to take to bhakti path as they find spiritual self-realization very difficult.

It's also the nature of the average embodied humans (vaishnavas) to take to Bhakti and in the name of krishna

1. Insult the advaithic followers, who are dearest to krishna

2. Degrade krishna as a saguna while Krishna emphasises that he is nirguna. Thus enforce Krishna to the status of demi-god.

3. While these vaishnavas fit into all the characterization as described in BG of fools, unintelligent, ..etc, these vaishnavas will mis-lead others in the spiritual path for these characterization.

July 11, 2005

Krishna is neither Nirguna nor Saguna, both are his aspects. Krisha is not restricted to them, he is the Transcendent. He is the Purushottama.

July 11, 2005

There is no third state as transcendant. Saguna or Nirguna, which is above the saguna. Krishna says unambigously that he is nirguna. All the vedic gods are prayed as nirguna and satchitananda, including some of the big gurus. Anyone who prays in the vedic path to his favourite god is praying to no demi-god.

You vaishnavas alone consider Krishna as saguna as well, and bring him to demi-god status. All other vedic gods are prayed as nirguna and satchitananda (including krishna), and therefore are not demi-gods. Please stop this insult on krishna & vishnu.

July 11, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

I read your post and immediately got a call of nature. It is because of your advaitic nonsense. If you are God and you are convinced that I am also the same God then I will give you my bank account and you should immediately send to me all your money. It doesn't matter where is the money. Me-you are the same God. And if you do not send all your money then something is wrong with your philosophy. You cannot prove it; you don't have any realization; and your life is just wasted. You don't have faith nor devotion to God-me.

Yajjnaatwaa na punarmoham evam yaasyasi paandava;

Yena bhootaanyasheshena drakshyasyaatmanyatho mayi.

35. Knowing that, thou shalt not, O Arjuna, again become deluded like this; and by that thou shalt see all beings in thy Self and also in Me!

# Rascal! Cheating advaita interpretation of the verse. Diarrhea nothing else.

Nowhere in the sastra it is said that all the living entities are within the individual soul. This is only possible for the all-pervading Supersoul which is indicated here by the word atmani. This is confirmed by the words 'atha u' that means 'in other words'. And what is that in other words? In other words that all living entities are in mayi - Me, Krishna. (The Supersoul - Paramatma is the expansion of Krishna)

One more important point here is that the words all living beings confirm their eternal individual existence - jiva bhuta sanatana.

Api chedasi paapebhyah sarvebhyah paapakrittamah;

Sarvam jnaanaplavenaiva vrijinam santarishyasi.

36. Even if thou art the most sinful of all sinners, yet thou shalt verily cross all sins by the raft of knowledge.

# Good

Yathaidhaamsi samiddho’gnir bhasmasaat kurute’rjuna;

Jnaanaagnih sarvakarmaani bhasmasaat kurute tathaa.

37. As the blazing fire reduces fuel to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge reduce all actions to ashes!

Na hi jnaanena sadrisham pavitram iha vidyate;

Tat swayam yogasamsiddhah kaalenaatmani vindati.

38. Verily there is no purifier in this world like knowledge. He who is perfected in Yoga finds it in the Self in time.

# tolerable.

Shraddhaavaan labhate jnaanam tatparah samyatendriyah;

Jnaanam labdhvaa paraam shaantim achirenaadhigacchati.

39. The man who is full of faith, who is devoted to it, and who has subdued all the senses, obtains (this) knowledge; and, having obtained the knowledge, he goes at once to the supreme peace.

# You left out the very important sloka.

ajnas casraddadhanas ca

samsayatma vinasyati

nayam loko 'sti na paro

na sukham samsayatmanah

But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next.(Bg 4.40)

IOW you advaitins, if you don's get faith in all the statements of the sastra that everything what Vyasadeva wrote down is the absolute truth e.g. that the living entities are eternally the servants of God, Krishna, then you will not attain happiness neither in this world nor in the next, and you will just fall down from your practice. Actually to think 'I am God' is already a fallen position. Only Krishna is the highest truth - matta parataram nanyat. This also means that there is no two Brahmans - nirguna and saguna but only Krishna is the highest truth.

** Self less karma and stead fast devotion gives knowledge, which is a raft that helps to cross all sins and "thou shalt see all beings in thy Self and also in Me!"

# "thou shalt see all beings in thy Self and also in Me!" is the ignorance of the advaitins. The point was discussed above - why.

Else, millions of eternal jivas, all eternally bonded.

# only when the

bhakta - have devotion to

bhokta - Bhagava, Sri Krishna then

the individul spirit soul will attain the eternal supreme abode - the spiritual world.

bhaktya mam abhijanati

yavan yas casmi tattvatah

tato mam tattvato jnatva

visate tad-anantaram

"One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God". (Bg 18.55)

Therefor,

sri-bhagavan uvaca

mayy avesya mano ye mam

nitya-yukta upasate

sraddhaya parayopetas

te me yuktatama matah

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: 'He whose mind is fixed on My personal form, always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith, is considered by Me to be the most perfect.'" (Bhagavad-gita 12.2)

Gauranga Nityananda

July 12, 2005

"I read your post and immediately got a call of nature"

Too much excitement,fear, nervousness does it for children.

# Rascal! Cheating advaita interpretation of the verse. Diarrhea nothing else.#

Your language is sweet.

You said, you got a call of nature?

July 12, 2005

** "I read your post and immediately got a call of nature"

## Your article was so good...only for nothing...it crates only stomach problems...

** Rascal! Cheating advaita interpretation of the verse. Diarrhea nothing else.

## For you praise or honor is all the same. Everything is one. Or maybe you giving up your advaita philosophy? No more arguments? The topic is closed.

And where is the money if you are still God. You should give it to me - the me God.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 12, 2005

"## For you praise or honor is all the same. Everything is one. Or maybe you giving up your advaita philosophy? No more arguments? The topic is closed. "

No, I am waiting for your bowels to close up.

"And where is the money if you are still God. You should give it to me - the me God."

At present, inexplicably, you are incoherent, friend. Possibly the references to "money" and "me the God" are from some other thread or your assumptions.

## For you praise or honor is all the same. Everything is one##

Possibly you wanted to say praise and insult and not praise and honor.

But you are correct. Everchanging variety has sprung on an eternal undecaying shanta advaitam Shivam atma. One who knows of the achedyom 'yam, is not affected by praise or insult.

July 12, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

OK, if you agree we can stop vulgar talks.

As far as see you don't accept satra. So, I don't know why you are arguing at all. What is the point just to go on neglecting clear statements of the scriptures? It is a very similar attitude like that of atheist. Anyway...

I already explained. The word acchedyah mentioned by Krishna describes the spiritual quality of the soul compared to the material body. Arjuna will cut the bodies of many soldiers but in no one of them he will cut the soul.

IOW your idea that there is only one soul is not substantiated by any sastra nor by Krishna. Krishna in the whole second chapter speaks about individual soul within the body and even if we would consider your proposal that He in the sloka 2.24 speaks about universal soul that would be something completely out of context.

However, there is no such a thing like a universal soul that is present in every body. That can be only the Supresoul or Paramatma that is also called vibhu-atma. But the individual soul is only anu-atma or very tiny particle.

balagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca

bhago jivah sa vijneyah sa canantyaya kalpate

"When the upper point of a hair is divided into one hundred parts and again each of such parts is further divided into one hundred parts, each such part is the measurement of the dimension of the spirit soul." (Svet. 5.9) Similarly, in the Bhagavatam the same version is stated:

kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsah sadrsatmakah

jivah suksma-svarupo 'yam sankhyatito hi cit-kanah

"There are innumerable particles of spiritual atoms, which are measured as one ten-thousandth of the upper portion of the hair."

Please consider seriously the following statements.

states:

prithag-AtmAnam preritam ca matvA / jushtas tatas tenAmritatvam eti

"When one understands that the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual spirit souls are eternally distinct entities, then he may become qualified for liberation, and live eternally in the spiritual world." (SvetAsvatara Upanisad 1.6)

tam pitha-stham ye tu yajanti dhirAs

teshAm sukham sasvatam netareshAm

"The saintly devotees who worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the spiritual world attain eternal transcendental bliss. Except for them no others can attain this eternal bliss." Gopal-tapani Upanisad

There are hundreds of similar statements in the scriptures about eternal individuality of the souls and God.

So, the scriptures are very important authority to know the absolute truth. And if you don't accept the scriptures but you follow the authority of your mind and speculations then you are nothing else but only a loser. You are committing a spiritual suicide.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 13, 2005

"OK, if you agree we can stop vulgar talks. "

I did not start vulgar talks.

There are four staes of Atma. Remaining in the lowest state, "A", we fight and become angry. At least reach the state "M, and then we may discuss (and not argue).

Scriptures describe all four states. The ultimate state of Vishnu is advaitam but indescribable, since that state is beyond VAK.

VAK has become all this. In absolute mouna of mind only the M state be reached and the 4rth stage is even beyond --indescribale.

In nut shell, there is nothing to fight about or get angry about, except staunch attachment to concepts of ego-mind. Bitter arguments are not worth it, my friend.

July 14, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

** Bitter arguments are not worth

# Yes, I completely agree, you should give up all your arguments for advaita philosophy and accept the straightforward statements of the scriptures that Krishna is the Ultimate Absolute Truth and not Brahman. It is not me who is arguing with you but since I am only an instrument in presenting the scriptures you are actually bitterly arguing with / against sastra all the time presenting the advaitc twisted interpretations. Because of your big false ego - ahankar, as you say, you don't want to accept them.

** [fight is there because of] attachment to concepts of ego-mind

# As I mentioned above, under the influence of ahankar, that is one of Krishna's eight material elements, there is misidentification with the body and material mind. So, give up your false ego and thus false identification; and as Krishna says in the Gita the inimical mind and accepting the straightforward statements of the scriptures with full faith and devotion begin to chant the Hare Krishna maha mantra. But let see now what the scriptures say.

** The ultimate state of Vishnu is advaitam but indescribable,

# This advaita explanation is not accepted by the Vaishnavas since it is not the ultimate truth laid down in the scriptures. Here are few reasons.

1) When you say that 'the ultimate state of Vishnu is advaitam' this is not correct. I gave to you already many quotes from the scriptures why but anyway here are again some.

Katha Up. 1.3.10: Higher than senses are tha sense objects; higher is the mind; higher is the buddhi; higher is the soul and still higher the avyakta.

Then it says: avyakta purusah para purusa na param kincit sa kastha para gatah. The Purusa, the Personality of Godhead, is superior to the Avyakta. He is the ultimate Entity beyond Avyakta, the supreme goal.

The avyakta or Brahman is the all-pervading energy of the energetic, Sri Krishna. This is explained in the

Mundaka Up. 1.2.13 (and 3.1.3): By the knowledge given by the guru one comes to the eternal true golden colored Person, higher than the high imperishable, the highest Immortal, the Source of the brahmajyoti (brahma-yonim) .

So, these and many similar straightforward statements of the scriptures should be taken like 'paribhasha-sutras' or the statements of the Vedas that help as to properly understand all other statements and even the contradictory ones. IOW everything should be understood in the light of these kind of verses that Krishna or Vishnu is the Ultimate Absolute Truth above nirakar Brahman. Just as Arjuna says to Krishna:

arjuna uvaca

param brahma param dhama

pavitram paramam bhavan

purusam sasvatam divyam

adi-devam ajam vibhum

ahus tvam rsayah sarve

devarsir naradas tatha

asito devalo vyasah

svayam caiva bravisi me

Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest.

And then it is not only Arjuna who got this realization but many other sages...

All the great sages such as Narada, Asita, Devala and Vyasa confirm this truth about You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me. [bg. 10.12–13]

And what did Krishna tell to Arjuna? Matta parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [bg. 7.7]. "My dear Arjuna (Dhananjaya), there is nobody greater than Me. Everything rests upon Me"...Also Brahman rest on Krishna. brahmanah--of the impersonal brahmajyoti; hi--certainly; pratistha--the rest, the base or foundation; aham--I am. Krishna here says hi--certainly. That means there should be no other explanation than His. "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman". Brahman is the energy and Krishna is the energetic and of the two the energetic is more important and thus higher.

And one more important point. Nowhere in the Vedas, has it been stated that the bheda passages (personalistic descriptions of Krishna and Vishnu etc.) represent opponents point of view. Hence the bheda srutis have to be taken as correct; and have to be properly synthesized with the other passages in the Vedas.

** [advaitam is] state beyond VAK.

# Considering the previous section of discussion the natural conclusion is that in realizing the different features of the Absolute Truth the Brahman realization is that beyond words, beyond the mind, beyond matter, beyond all dualities. However, this is only the first step in realization of the Absolute Truth because according to satra the realization of Vishnu or Krishna is higher and the top one. Krishna is full of limitless transcendental qualities. You might not accept this truth (although it is supported by satra) because you saying that the ultimate truth is beyond VAK. But in that case let's consider the following question.

QUESTION: Does the description that Brahman has no qualities help to positively understand Brahman?

ANSWER 1: If you say yes, then you have to admit that the Vedas do have the power to describe Brahman; and

ANSWER 2: if you say no, then you have to admit that your careful studies of the Vedic literature have been a great waste of time, and as a result you remain wholly ignorant of Brahman's real nature.

Other point we can make is to say that something what is beyond speech can refer only to emptiness but this is certainly not what you mean but the nirguna Brahman. Now, the nirguna Brahman of the Vishnavas and the nirguna Brahman of advaitins refer to two different features of the Absolute Truth. The topmost feature of the nirguna Brahman according to the Vishnava siddhanta and satras is referring to Vishnu or Krishna. Krishna is nirguna. Here is what the sastra says.

OBJECTION: Vedas say Brahman has no gunas (qualities)

ANSWER: nirguia means - that Brahman has no (nih) contact with the three modes of material nature (guna).

sattvAdayo na shAntishe

yatra cAprakritA gunAh

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who possesses numberless transcendental qualities, is eternally free from the touch of the three modes of material nature: goodness, passion, and ignorance." (smriti-sAstra)

samasta-kalyAna-gunAtmako 'sau

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead possesses all auspicious qualities." (smriti-sAstra)

So, when one realizes Parabrahman, Sri Krishna and is able to see Him face to face, His overwhelming transcendental beauty, it is described that one because of arising of ecstatic blissful spiritual emotion of love of God simply remains speechless. This is the ultimate meaning of 'beyond Vak'. IOW the unlimited times greater experience of spiritual bliss of love of God is beyond any description. Pity, you advaitins will never attain this level.

sac-cid-Anandaika-rase bhakti-yoge tishthati

"Devotional service is eternal and full of knowledge and bliss." (Gopala-tapani Upanisad)

IOW eternal service to Krishna (without beginning and end) gives unending, eternal bliss.

** VAK has become all this. In absolute mouna of mind only the M state be reached and the 4rth stage is even beyond --indescribable.

# The fourth stage 'turiya' for advaitin is to be Brahman realized floating in the bliss of 'light' but the devotee of Krishna goes further after brahma bhuta stage or turiya level of consciousness by engaging in mad-bhaktim lebhate param Krishna-bhakti to realize the top feature of nirguna Brahman, Krishna. This is only possible when one comes in the contact with the samvit-shakti knowledge giving potency of Krishna and hladini shakti His pleasure giving potency. Advaitins are devoid of this level of realization since they don't accept the existence of different energies of Parabrahman, Sri Krishna nor they want to realize Him as the topmost feature of the Absolute Truth.

Mauna for the Vaishnavas have also a different meaning then you boring advaitins. Mauna doesn't mean for a Vaishnavas to completely stop speaking but rather to stop speaking nonsense. Many advaitins in the past went beyond the realization of Brahman and attained higher pleasure by starting the process of bhakti. There is a nice verse in the (Srimad Bhagavatam 1:7:1) about this:

suta uvaca

atmaramas ca munayo

nirgrantha apy urukrame

kurvanty ahaitukim bhaktim

ittham-bhuta-guno harih

“Suta Goswami said: All the atmaramas, those who find satisfaction in the self, and especially those who are situated on the path of spiritual realization, being already free from slavery to matter, feel the desire to serve the Supreme Person with pure devotion. The Lord, being the Possessor of all transcendental qualities, is able to attract all living beings, even those who are liberated.”

** There are four states of Atma.

# I read about these four stages of consciousness. I think this is what you meant to say.

** Remaining in the lowest state, "A", we fight and become angry. At least reach the state "M, and then we may discuss (and not argue).

# Yes, this is one of the many meanings of AUM. The three letters A, U and M symbolize the absence of desire, fear and anger, while the whole symbol stands for the perfect man a sthita-prajna, one whose wisdom is firmly established in the divine. In the Gita 2.59 Arjuna is asking Krishna about the characteristics of the Sthita Prajna. Krishna's answer can apply both to the jnani and the bhakta.

As I told you, you are arguing with the satra not with me. And if you don't accept satra then you are just like the Buddhists who reject the Vedas. Actually, the scriptures describe that Sankara's advaita philosophy is nothing more than covered Buddhism – different words same philosophy same tendency to reject Vedic statements.

** Scriptures describe all four states [of consciousness].

# Correct.

Gauranga Nityananda

July 15, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

If you lie to read the full article please go to: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/vedicsound.htm

Vaikhari-vak is the grossest level of speech, and it is heard through the external senses. When sound comes out through the mouth as spoken syllables it is called as vaikhari.

Madhyama-vak is the intermediate unexpressed state of sound, whose seat is in the heart. The word Madhyama means "in between" or "the middle". The middle sound is that sound which exists between the states of susupti and jagrat. Madhyama-vak refers to mental speech, as opposed to external audible speech. It is on this level that we normally experience thought. Some hold that wakeful thought is still on the level of vaikhari.

In the manifestation process, after sound has attained the form of pashyanti-vak, it goes further up to the heart and becomes coupled with the assertive intelligence, being charged with the syllables a, ka, cha, tha, ta, etc. At this point it manifests itself in the form of vibratory nada rupa madhyama-vak. Only those who are endowed with discriminative intelligence can feel this.

On the levels of madhyama and vaikhari, there is a distinction between the sound and the object. The object is perceived as something different from the sound, and sound is connected to an object mostly by convention.

Pashyanti-vak is the second level of sound, and is less subtle than para-vak. Pashyanti in Sanskrit means "that which can be seen or visualized".

In the pashyanti stage sound possesses qualities such as color and form. Yogis who have inner vision can perceive these qualities in sound. On this stage the differences between language do not exist, as this sound is intuitive and situated beyond rigidly defined concepts. On the stage of pashyanti-vak, speech is intuitively connected to the object. There is near oneness between the word and the experience described.

Pashyanti-vak is the finest impulse of speech. The seat of pashyanti is in the navel or the Manipura Chakra. When sound goes up to the naval with the bodily air in vibratory form without any particular syllable (varna), yet connected with the mind, it is known as pashyanti-vak.

Para-vak is the transcendent sound. Para means highest or farthest, and in this connection it indicates that sound which is beyond the perception of the senses.

Para-vak is also known as "rava-shabda" - an unvibratory condition of sound beyond the reach of mind and intelligence (avyakta), only to be realized by great souls, parama-jnanis.

On the stage of para-vak there is no distinction between the object and the sound. The sound contains within it all the qualities of the object.

In terms of the universal cosmology, vaikhari, madhyama and pashyanti correspond respectively to bhuh, bhuvah, and svah. The para-shabda ultimately corresponds to the Lord's tri-.-vibhuti.

July 27, 2005

It is usual to regard Anger as a corollary or counterpart of desire, since it usually appears when desire becomes frustrated. Psychologically, the two are interrelated. Yet from the point of view of the bhakta whose main task is to purify the mind, anger is a more powerful foe than desire. It is worthwhile analysing the cause of the defeat too frequently sustained by the bhakta when he wages war with anger.

Anger is a Vritti or modification that arises in the mind-lake when the Gunas—Rajas and Tamas—predominate. It is Rajo-Guna Vritti. Some take it as a Tamo-Guna Vritti. It is a wave of unpleasant feeling that arises from the Antahkarana, when one gets displeased with another. It is in other words, a modification of desire or passion. Just as milk is changed into curd, so also desire becomes changed into anger. It is the most formidable enemy of peace, knowledge and devotion. It is the straightest road to hell itself.

Anger resides in the Linga Sarira (astral body), but it percolates into the physical body just as water percolates through the pores to the outer surface of an earthen pot. Just as heat melts lead, just as heat and borax melt gold, so also Kama and Krodha—the heating factors of the mind—melt the mind.

Anger begets eight kinds of vices. All evil qualities and actions proceed from anger. If you can eradicate anger, all bad qualities will die by themselves. The eight vices are; injustice, rashness, persecution, jealousy, taking possession of others’ property, killing, harsh words and cruelty.

Anger gains strength by repetition. If it is checked then and there, man gains immense strength of will. When anger is controlled, it becomes transmuted into spiritual energy that can move the three worlds. Just as heat or light is changed into electricity, so also anger becomes changed into Ojas. Energy takes another form. Energy is wasted enormously when one gets angry. The whole nervous system is shattered by an outburst of anger. The eyes become red, the body quivers, the legs and hands tremble. No one can check an angry man. He gets enormous strength for the time being and gets a collapse after sometime on account of reaction.

Instances are recorded wherein women have killed their children by nursing them with breast-milk when they were in a fit of anger. Various poisons are thrown into the blood when one is angry. Fiery dark arrows shoot out from the astral body. These can be seen clearly by clairvoyant eye. In the light of modern psychology, all diseases take their origin in anger. Rheumatism, heart-disease, nervous disease are all due to anger. It takes some months for the restoration of normal equilibrium in the nervous system.

If an aspirant has controlled anger, half of his Sadhana is over. Control of anger means control of lust also. Control of anger is really control of mind. He who has controlled anger cannot do any wrong or evil action. He is always just. It is very difficult to say when a man will be thrown into a fit of fury. All of a sudden he gets an irresistible fit of anger for trifling matters. When anger assumes a grave form, it becomes difficult to control. It should therefore, be controlled even when it is in the form of a small ripple in the subconscious mind (Chitta). One should watch his mind very, very cautiously. Whenever there is the least symptom or indication of light irritability, then and there it must be nipped. Then it becomes very easy to control anger. Be careful and vigilant and watch the ripple, then only you are a sage.

Whenever there is a little irritability, stop all conversation and observe Mouna (the vow of silence). Practice of Mouna daily for one or two hours is of great help in controlling anger. Always try to speak sweet soft words. The words must be soft and the arguments hard; but if the reverse is the case it will lead to discord and disharmony. There is a sharp sword in every tongue.

Find out the real cause of your anger and try to eradicate it. If a man abuses you and calls you names, you become furious at once. Your blood becomes hot. Why do you feel offended when he calls you ‘a dog’ or ‘a donkey’? Have you developed now four legs and tail like a dog? Why do you get excited for little things? Enquire: What is this abuse? Is it not mere vibration in the ether? Am I body or Atman? No one can injure Atman. The Atman of the abuser and the abused is one. Do I really gain anything by retaliating? I waste my energy. I hurt the feeling of another man. I disturb and pollute the thought world. I do real harm to the world by sending a current of hatred. This world is unreal. I will live here for a short time only. Let me bear this insult. Let me excuse him. I will develop inner mental strength and power of endurance. You can thus very effectively eradicate the feelings of anger. A time will come when you will not be irritated even a bit by harsh words, abuses and insults, of this kind. You will not pay the least heed if a man says that such and such a man has said bad words against you. You will simply laugh the whole matter away. An irritable man is very weak and has no mental strength.

Anger, like fever, is a symptom which shows that something has gone wrong in the inner mechanism. The mental machinery gets heated for want of timely lubrication. The most effective of all lubricants is Introspection or Reflection. Even the most angry man realises his folly after his anger is spent out. It is then that he begins to reflect upon what he did. If this reflection had come to him before he got angry, he would not have got angry at all. But that would be possible only if he had made reflection or introspection over his habit. The habit must be formed in good time if the evil is to be averted.

Anger influenced even Hanuman the mightiest Brahmachari to burn Lanka. He lost his understanding and then repented “Alas! I have burnt the whole of Lanka under the influence of anger. This fire might have burnt Mother Sita also. What shall I do now? How can I return without Janaki Devi? I became a victim to anger. How powerful is anger? I am a powerful Brahmachari. I have destroyed passion to its very root and branch and yet I have not controlled anger. How powerful it is! It is more powerful than passion.”

July 27, 2005

If I find a person's anger affecting me, then I have to make sure that the person's anger does not draw all the attention to freeze all my other thoughts.

If the whole society learns to make sure & move on without freezing on others negative emotions and writing elaborately to make judgements upon those negative emotions, then we will be a lot more peaceful society.

There are situation where a group of people interact together, and its very important to maintain a good social environment. In such situations such rules as one should not behave with anger make a lot of sense. Thank you and great contribution.

July 27, 2005

Gauranga Nityananda

** Anger [is] a corollary or counterpart of desire,

# desires are eternally there in the living entity

** [anger] appears when desire becomes frustrated.

# not in the bhakta, he has no selfish and material desires.

** anger is a more powerful foe than desire.

# The bhakta who is on transcendental position brahma bhuta prasannatma na socati na kanksati

neither laments nor have any hankerings. He is transcendentally blissful prasannatma. Therefore, if he becomes angry it is controlled anger.

**Anger is a Vritti or modification that arises in the mind-lake when the Gunas—Rajas and Tamas—predominate.

# This is not applicable to a devotee who is a transcendentally situated as explained already above in Bg 18.54.

** Anger is the most formidable enemy of peace, knowledge and devotion. It is the straightest road to hell itself.

# Anger employed in the service of Krishna is transcendental anger. It is understood that material anger arise because of unfulfilled material desire – lust. However, one who serves Krishna he does that because of love to Krishna. On the level of pure service to Krishna there is no trace of lust or selfish material desire, thus the anger that appears in the devotee is also not born from lust but from the desire to please Krishna.

** Anger begets eight kinds of vices… injustice, rashness, persecution, jealousy, taking possession of others’ property, killing, harsh words and cruelty.

# Krishna likes all his devotees very much like for example Arjuna. Bhakto si me sakha ceti. The following qualities that Krishna mentions in the Bg 12.18-19 are found in Arjuna:

--“One who is equal to friends and enemies,

-He was always kind to Duryodhan and even saved his life when he was camping in the forest and was attacked by the, I think gandharva tribe, because of the insult to one of their women.

--who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy,

-he very peacefully accepted exile tolerating all discomforts

-- who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn’t care for any residence,

--who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service—such a person is very dear to Me”.

-Arjuna received knowledge from Krishna and was engaged in His service as well.

**When anger is controlled, it becomes transmuted into spiritual energy that can move the three worlds.

# This is nonsense. If one is not on the brahma bhuta level and engaged in devotional service, bhakti to please Krishna, anger will never be positively employed. It will always be destructive.

**Energy is wasted enormously when one gets angry.

# Not at all when anger is used in service to God or to protect the devotees from attackers.

** Instances are recorded wherein women have killed their children by nursing them with breast-milk when they were in a fit of anger.

# this is passion, different from the devotees position.

** If an aspirant has controlled anger, half of his Sadhana is over. Control of anger means control of lust also.

# Sorry, according to the Bg. 2.62 first is lust then anger. “While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises”.

Therefore, if one becomes free from lust there will be no material anger.

** Whenever there is a little irritability, stop all conversation and observe Mouna (the vow of silence).

# If the devotee of Krishna finds himself in the situation where there is a blasphemy of devotees or Krishna there are three ways of dealing with such insults. If someone is heard blaspheming by words, one should be so expert that he can defeat the opposing party by argument. If he is unable to defeat the opposing party, then the next step is that he should not just stand there meekly, but should give up his life. The third process is followed if he is unable to execute the above-mentioned two processes, and this is that one must leave the place and go away.

**Practice of Mouna daily for one or two hours is of great help in controlling anger.

# Only negation of an activity will not help because desire and activity will never stop. Therefore, one should engage in positive activity of glorifying Krishna as He recommends that in the Bhagavat gita – satatam-always; kirtayanto-glorify; mam-me, Krishna. This is called by the wise the real mauna – glorifying Krishna all the time.

** Anger influenced even Hanuman the mightiest Brahmachari to burn Lanka. He lost his understanding and then repented “Alas! I have burnt the whole of Lanka under the influence of anger.

# He is celebrated as the best servant of Lord Ram. In the Bg 7.14 Krishna says: “This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it”

And moreover, a person who has deep love for the Supreme Lord those is under special protection of the divine energy of the Lord.

mahatmanas tu mam partha

daivim prakritim asritah

bhajanty ananya-manaso

jnatva bhutadim avyayam

“O son of Pritha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible”.

** This fire might have burnt Mother Sita also. What shall I do now? How can I return without Janaki Devi? I became a victim to anger. How powerful is anger? I am a powerful Brahmachari. I have destroyed passion to its very root and branch and yet I have not controlled anger. How powerful it is! It is more powerful than passion.”

# I have big doubts in the translations of Sivananda Svami, from who you copy all this things. I found so many mistakes he makes.

But anyway, in the above text a devotee will see the good transcendental, devotional qualities of Hanuman. One is his natural humility, he say ‘I became victim of anger’. Another is that a devotee never thinks himself perfect. All this is because of the lila-shakti of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, which helps the devotee and the Lord to perform their eternal pastimes. To apply any mundane interpretation on the Lord’s devotes and Rama or Krishna is more than offensive and is condemned by all Vaishnavas, the real transcendentalists.

Gauranga Nityananda

April 6, 2006

Dear ones,

As no one ... as an awakened presense ... know that formless love is supreme ... and blends within its womb love with form ... so intimately that no one can differentiate the two!

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True bakthy only for formless god

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