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atanu

A new fight? Dvaita-Advaita?

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Oh, Gokul, how you have matured. I am glad.

 

Till a jiva has a separate sense of existence due to superposition of ego (body-mind) on the Self, jiva is different from Shiva. The Self is forgotten.

 

On removal of ego (mano nasha) Jiva becomes Shiva. The partition is created by sense of separateness and seems to be like concrete.

 

See the light once and merge in it for a second, and you will know.

 

There is no part. The whole is one. The part is from jiva's perspective and not from Shiva's perspective. There is no partitioning of Brahman, who is eternal, unchanging and same everywhere. Then, where from the parts come?

 

Practical Advaita

 

Preamble

 

A child watches ever changing forms on a glowing Neon board and is fascinated. The child knows the ever changing glow as real. When grace attends, then only the child will know that the neon board as the sub stratum is the truth.

 

His Instructions

 

Suppose you are of the form of a beautiful flower vase. You know yourself as a beautiful thing. You have pride of your thin neck, wide middle, and tapering base. You also have pride that you are so useful; you are beautiful and help to uphold beautiful flowers. But you have fear and anxiety about your fragility and about your temporary existence. You can’t do anything to enhance your longevity; your longevity is outside your power. You are jealous of more beautiful but more fragile flower vases. You are also jealous of less beautiful but sturdier flower vases. Now suppose you know that you are the clay; the substratum that makes the pot. Now you are immortal. Your knowledge that you are a temporary form and name is your egoity. Remove the illusion of the egoity, identify yourself with the substratum and be immortal.

 

Suppose you are a shining leaf in a big Banyan tree. You have forgotten that you exist for the tree. You have forgotten that you are the tree. You have forgotten that the tree flourishes aided by your unselfish efficient work but you as a single leaf is not indispensable. You and infinite others will come and go. You have forgotten that the tree will exist for a very long time and you fear that you will fall and die the coming winter. Realize that you are the tree; the substratum -- and you are immortal.

 

Suppose you work for an efficient organization under a super efficient boss. You have pride that you are doing profoundly important tasks. You also have become vain. You feel that you are indispensable. You have pride that you have fame. But you also enjoy comforts and you are fearful of losing those comforts. You are anxious about changes. According to the master plan of your organization and your super efficient boss, you are asked to relocate to Nigeria. You fear mosquitoes will finish you off in Nigeria. You lament the loss of comfort, telephones, cars, and what not. But your boss knows better. He knows that with super abundant profits from the Nigeria operation, the company will flourish and you will also. Suppose you hinder the relocation plan. The Boss will simply get rid of you and send someone else. Now suppose the organization is our universe and your super efficient boss is the all knowing Lord, the Supreme. This understanding will solve all your negative mind problems. Identify with the Boss. Become one with him. Work with your soul for him. Do not work for your small, fragile, and illusory egoity (This one is for very dear Gokul).

 

The Method

 

How to identify and become one with the substratum, with the Boss -- so that you may be immortal? You will, through meditation, by enquiring into your real nature. Imagine you are a fruit. With the illusory sense of egoity that you have, you are pained that you will rot in no time. If you enquire, you will find that you have a more durable seed inside you. But that does not give you complete peace since you will worry whether the sprouts from the seed will survive? You enquire further and wonder what the power of the seed is; how it will replicate your form again? You go inside further and see that there is empty space inside the seed. The empty space is the substratum and the substratum that is empty space is Him. He is the empty space, present everywhere, present in every one, and He is one. He is indivisible, undifferentiated, unchanging and ever-present One. He has the master plan. He is in the seed and he is in you. You are Him.

 

Realize that the examples are approximations. I can understand a report created by me but it can never understand me. Likewise I will never understand Him fully.

 

Do not associate with matter – money and other material resources. Do not associate with physical forms – beauty and physique. Do not associate with the power of mind. Associate with the Boss.

 

The prayer

 

O, Lord, you have become the greatest sage and leader of the thief. You have become joy and you have become pain. You have become Rajasic and you have become Tamasic. You are the subtle and the gross. You are the smallest and the infinite. You are the Sun and the moon and you are air, water and fire. You are the plants. You are Sat-Chit-Anand and you are the reactive anger and the subsequent sorrow. You are the fragrance, the nourishment, and the knowledge – Vidya and Avidya both. You are the eternal substratum that is one without a second.

 

But you are the eternal Sat-Chit-Anand that is ever auspicious, the substratum that is real, everything else is transitory. You only open the gates to the Vidya.

 

Thus I prostrate to Sat-Chit-Anand that is auspicious and alone remains on dissolution of forms and name. I prostrate to you who is Guru Ramana. I prostrate to you who is Ganapati who guards the gates to the Vidya (and gates to Hindu Online also). I prostrate to you who is all pervading pure sattvik Vishnu. I prostrate you who is ever compassionate Annapurna. I prostrate to you who is eternal auspicious Shiva. Let your grace never depart from me and my friends.

 

Pray, let what you have expressed remain eternal fragrance

 

Atanu

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Till a jiva has a separate sense of existence due to superposition of ego (body-mind) on the Self, jiva is different from Shiva. The Self is forgotten.

<=god is CIT... conscious...... god never forget to be god...

 

See the light once and merge in it for a second, and you will know.

<=god is eternal, if the merging can last only for a second it is false.. maya

 

There is no part. The whole is one.

<=variety is a feature of the absolute... otherwise how can variety exist in the relative? so ONE and VARIOUS simultaneously

 

The part is from jiva's perspective and not from Shiva's perspective.

<=Shiva (or Vishnu.. let us not discuss now on who's the absolute isvara) cannot have less perspective than the jiva.. and if he have a perspective, there's one who sees and some who are seen.. so there's variety

 

There is no partitioning of Brahman, who is eternal, unchanging and same everywhere. Then, where from the parts come?

<=from param brahman.. the existence of parts is easy to verify, me and you are different, i don't know who you are and what you think so we are independent.. and if there's plurality in this mundane dimension, there's necessary also in the absolute one, because the absolute is greater than relative.

 

Become one with him. Work with your soul for him.

<=if you become one the distinction is at end so no one can serve or work for anyone

 

Do not work for your small, fragile, and illusory egoity

<=yes.. be humble, do not develop your false ego so excessively that you think, merged with god, to have become god

 

You have become Rajasic and you have become Tamasic

<=god is transcendental... he's situated in pure sattva guna

 

You are Sat-Chit-Anand

<=sat cit anand means that god has features, actions, personality, world, companions, name... so god cannot be only featureless, like impersonal brahman

 

Thus I prostrate to Sat-Chit-Anand that is auspicious and alone remains on dissolution of forms and name

<=are you prostrating to your self? what's the use? if you are god why you need to practice, meditate and prostrate to remember to be god? is'nt god omnipotent?

 

Let your grace never depart from me and my friends.

<=you and your friends are god... why search grace from outside?

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Dear Atanuji,

 

Barneyji suddenly sprang on my thread - "Sathsang thread - Glory of Lord Narayana" & is trying to pick up a fight with me. i dunno whats hes expecting from me ???

 

i am already hurt. ask him not to pick me for a fight. i didnt spoke ill of his faith to him.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif JAI SHRI KRISHNA

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All arguments emanate from non-eternal manas, and hence need not be commented on. Please abide in Self for one second (1 second from non-eternal Jiva's perspective).

 

Atanu

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You are awave of the ocean. Though you think you are a wave, ocean thinks you the ocean.

 

You are a song of the ocean. You think you are singing yourself. But the Lord is singing you.

 

Book 10 HYMN CXIV. Visvedevas.

 

1. Two perfect springs of heat pervade the Threefold, and come for their delight is Matarisvan.

Craving the milk of heaven the Gods are present: well do they know the praisesong and the Saman.

2 The priests beard far away, as they are ordered, serve the three Nirrtis, for well they know them.

Sages have traced the cause that first produced them, dwelling in distant and mysterious chambers.

3 The Youthful One, well-shaped, with four locks braided, brightened with oil, puts on the ordinances.

Two Birds of mighty power are seated near her, there where the Deities receive their portion.

4 One of these Birds hath passed into the sea of air: thence he looks round and views this universal world.

With simple heart I have beheld him from anear: his Mother kisses him and he returns her kiss.

5 Him with fair wings though only One in nature, wise singers shape, with songs, in many figures.

While they at sacrifices fix the metres, they measure out twelve chalices of Soma.

6 While they arrange the four and six-and-thirty, and duly order, up to twelve, the measures,

Having disposed the sacrifice thoughtful sages send the Car forward with the Rc and Saman.

7 The Chariot's majesties are fourteen others: seven sages lead it onward with their Voices.

Who will declare to us the ford Apnana, the path whereby they drink first draughts of Soma?

8 The fifteen lauds are in a thousand places that is as vast as heaven and earth in measure.

A thousand spots contain the mighty thousand. Vak spreadeth forth as far as Prayer extendeth.

9 What sage hath learned the metres' application? Who hath gained Vak, the spirit's aim and object?

Which ministering priest is called eighth Hero? Who then hath tracked the two Bay Steeds of Indra?

10 Yoked to his chariot-pole there stood the Coursers: they only travel round earth's farthest limits.

These, when their driver in his home is settled, receive the allotted meed of their exertion.

 

 

Read the whole but read the following specially:

 

5 Him with fair wings though only One in nature, wise singers shape, with songs, in many figures.

 

Atanu

 

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Kevala Advaita's view of reality is incomplete as are its arguments from the Vedas. They can take bits and pieces of Veda and misleadingly make it look valid, but cannot take into account all statements in vedas like the Vaishnava Vedantists can. Kevala Advaita is a misleading and incomplete philosophy. It is nastika philosophy, it is contradictory to Vedanta but poses itself as a school of Vedanta.

 

"A new fight? Dvaita-Advaita?"

 

Fight? The debate is not new nor is the verdict. Great Vaishnava Vedantists have a perfect winning record against the Kevala Advaita psuedo-"vedantists." But still some unfortunate people fool themselves that they can put forward arguments in support of Kevala Advaita, as if their Advaita acharyas haven't made these arguments already.

 

"All arguments emanate from non-eternal manas, and hence need not be commented on.."

 

Arguments in support of Kevala Advaita arise out of an illusioned manas. The God-realized Vaishnava Acharyas have shown the real meaning of the Vedas and Kevala Advaita to be inconsistent with that.

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All arguments emanate from non-eternal manas

..your's too... so stop to emanate

 

Please abide in Self for one second (1 second from non-eternal Jiva's perspective).

....done.... my self is eternal servant of the supreme Self, we will remain eternally unite in loving relationship... unite and different, because love means a loved and a lover... one alone cannot love himself

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You are awave of the ocean.

(so i am different from the ocean, if you are at seaside and a wave arrives it can be a great fun... if all the ocean comes to your faces, it is very different)

 

 

 

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""All arguments emanate from non-eternal manas, and hence need not be commented on.."

Arguments in support of Kevala Advaita arise out of an illusioned manas. The God-realized Vaishnava Acharyas have shown the real meaning of the Vedas and Kevala Advaita to be inconsistent with that. "

 

yes prabhu, this is their system... first flowery and poetic words to cheat the listener, then, where one with a little logic comes up with simple subject who are enough to defeat them...: "you are speaking with mundane mind"... so if mundane mind is not able to explain these subjects why do they speak?"

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You are not at sea shore. you are a wave and very much integral to the ocean.

 

Atanu

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You are what you think.

 

If you have a-priori detached from the Lord, you will remain so. May be you will succeed in next incarnation. OK.

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Dear Atanuji,

 

I am going to Ahobilam, Sri Sailam, Katari Narashima temple & MANTRALAYAM in this month. I am very happy.

 

I am sure rayaruji & Narashima will give me blessing.

 

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Jai Shri Krishna

/images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Sri Guru Raghavendraya Namaha

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Find out "Who am I?, for yourself.

 

Is your body the I? Or is your ego the I?

 

When you love yourself, why cant you love I. That is how Shri Krishna loved, without sin 16000 Gopis. Because, he is the Self and He loves the Self.

 

All Self Realised sages: Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi. Swami Yogananda, Swami Vivekananda teach one ness and Advaita.

 

Atanu

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"What does this Mayavada Fool"

 

What the heading means? Does it mean that all Mayavadas are fools or does it mean that i am a fool. If it means that Atanu is Mayavada and is a fool then you are correct.

 

It is improper for a vaishnava to call another person a fool. What kind of Vaishnava one is who calls another human being a fool?

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Dear Madhav,

 

You have correctly pointed out that it is an eternal debate, because of co-existence of eternal Avidya and eternal Vidya.

 

The thread heading was a misnomer and a mistake perhaps.

 

But when terms like fool etc. are used, it really becomes a debate of low quality, if not a fight.

 

Atanu

 

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"You are not at sea shore. you are a wave and very much integral to the ocean."

 

a wave is equal to the ocean in matter, quality, water... and different in quantity, very different

 

if you do not see it .. what to do?

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"You are what you think."

no.. if i think to be chinese i am not chinese

 

If you have a-priori detached from the Lord

not a-priori... i am different, my existence depends by him , not by me... i do not remember to be god, if i do not want to die.. i have to die, i i want to move the sun i can't... so i am not god

 

May be you will succeed in next incarnation. OK.

••we came in this world of sufferings because we are envious of god, because we want to be god at his place.... better to stop this illusion

 

(it is very nice your ability to sustain your idea..)

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Find out "Who am I?, for yourself.

••i am an eternal servant of god...

 

Is your body the I? Or is your ego the I?

••my material body is a dress, my real ego is sat cit ananda, is a full personality (body, name, character etc.), it is emanated by the lord and i have an eternal relationship of love with god to revive and remember. love means two subjects (at least)

 

When you love yourself, why cant you love I

••loving myself is discovering my real nature of servant of sri bhagavan

 

That is how Shri Krishna loved, without sin 16000 Gopis. Because, he is the Self and He loves the Self.

••no.. more simple... because he's krishna and he loves the souls, the devotees. There's no sin involved, we are speaking of spiritual realm noy of the material world. Do not be materialist.. our loving affairs have a perverted similarity to the lilas of the lord and his associates, but they are not of the same nature.

 

All Self Realised sages: Ramakrishna, Ramana Maharshi. Swami Yogananda, Swami Vivekananda teach one ness and Advaita.

••my respects... i follow people who, for me, teach more autoritative and more logical things... and they belong to a parampara, dinasty, school

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"What does this Mayavada Fool"

What the heading means? Does it mean that all Mayavadas are fools or does it mean that i am a fool. If it means that Atanu is Mayavada and is a fool then you are correct.

It is improper for a vaishnava to call another person a fool. What kind of Vaishnava one is who calls another human being a fool?

 

 

•••of course i am against calling someone fool without reason, only for discussing

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You do not seem to believe in spirit's dominance over matter and that is why you cannot become a Chinese even if you wanted. But those who know the power of spirit can transform matter.

 

Of course God only keeps you under illusion.

 

Atanu

 

 

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No problem with your position. Since it your dinasty (sic).

 

But I suspect that under the garb of an anonymous Guest title your Sat-Chit-Anand calls other souls fools.

 

If you are not the same guest then my apologies in advance.

 

Atanu

 

 

 

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Dear Guest

 

A wave is an expression of joy of the ocean. A wave has no eternal existence. Similarly a bhakta like you has no eternal locus standii.

 

Where from the comparison of quantity comes in. I said that we merge in Him and not He merges in us.

 

But even then "Macrocosm is in the microcosm". A sabda becomes the whole Universe.

 

Atanu

 

 

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What I meant was: who does the mayavada philosophy fool with its tricks and word jugglery.

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