Sanatana Dharma - Some Questions

[Guest guest]

Sanatana Dharma - Some Questions

 

 

Sanatana Dharma as a universal tradition has room for all faiths and all religious and spiritual practices regardless of the time or country of their origin.

 

It is the oldest, most complex and enigmatic of the world's major system of philosophies, theologies and beliefs and the most atypical compared to predominant Western belief systems

 

According to Sanatana Dharma, or the universal tradition, evolution should be the progressive unfoldment of the capacities of the soul toward the ultimate goal of Self-realization.

 

Does Sanatana-dharma accept Prophets and Messiahs?

 

Are there any dogmas within Sanatana-dharma?

 

What is the role of sects such as Vaisnavas' within Sanatana-dharma?

 

 

 

[karthik_v 0]

Hari bol Satyaraja Prabhu,

 

That is a nice topic. So, let us define the parameters for discussing the same. When we talk of sanatana dharma, what should be our basis? Should we base our arguments on shrutis, in which case, we are faced with the handicap that only 6 percent of the shrutis are extant? Or should we base our arguments on smritis, in which case, there is the stark reality that many of them have been interpolated over centuries?

 

I think defining the scope is very important for this debate to be meaningful.

[Jahnava Nitai Das 2]

Does Sanatana-dharma accept Prophets and Messiahs?

The Vedic religion accepts 'drashtas' or divine seers. Through introspective meditation, they literally see the Vedic texts in the ether through their inner eye. In this way the eternal unauthored Vedic texts become revealed to the people in general through the medium of realized saints and sages.

[Guest guest]

karthik_v: When we talk of sanatana dharma, what should be our basis? Should we base our arguments on shrutis, in which case, we are faced with the handicap that only 6 percent of the shrutis are extant? Or should we base our arguments on smritis, in which case, there is the stark reality that many of them have been interpolated over centuries?

 

Satyaraj: That is a very important point indeed, as we cannot really follow sanatana-dharma without scriptural basis. Sruti are considered as the original sabdha and the main evidence, therefore they are considered as the topmost authority to most of the sanatana-dharma’s preceptors and scholars. They also consider that smrtis are inferences on srutis and cannot be taken as absolute authorities, specially if one does not known the primordial sruti that is the cause of the smrti.

 

Due this lack or scarcity of srutis some schools give credit to Agamas (Pañcaratras), and to Pañcaratrika-vidya, due the character of Kali-yuga. But some others do not consider Agama as bona fide.

 

As you may known, I personally was introduced into sanatana-dharma by a Vaisnava sect, and for certain I am very far from a broad vision of all sanatana-dharma’s schools of philosophies, theologies and religions. That’s why I had posted this subject matter, hopping for some more enlighten on these topics.

 

[karthik_v 0]

Among the Srutis Bhagavad Gita is the only one which is extant and complete. Virtually all schools of Sanatana dharma accept Bhagavad Gita. So, it would be safe to conclude that any debate on Sanatana dharma should be based on Bhagavad Gita.

 

If we take a stance and if it can be supported unequivocally with reference to Bhagavad Gita, then we are on the right track.

[cakora 0]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Sanatana Dharma - Some Questions

 

Does Sanatana-dharma accept Prophets and Messiahs?

Yeah, why not.

Are there any dogmas within Sanatana-dharma?

I looked up the word 'dogma' in the dictionary, and it said 'principle, tenet, doctrinal system'. I think there is a 'principle' that one's thoughts and actions should be 'uplifting' to one's self. The word dogmatic had a more negative meaning 'imposing personal opinion, arrogant.' I think dogmatic people have successfully infiltrated every known religion to mankind and many misunderstandings exist.

 

What is the role of sects such as Vaisnavas' within Sanatana-dharma?

Ummm... the 'lead' role?

 

cakora

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by cakora:

I looked up the word 'dogma' in the dictionary, and it said 'principle, tenet, doctrinal system'. I think there is a 'principle' that one's thoughts and actions should be 'uplifting' to one's self. The word dogmatic had a more negative meaning 'imposing personal opinion, arrogant.' I think dogmatic people have successfully infiltrated every known religion to mankind and many misunderstandings exist.

 

Ummm... the 'lead' role?

 

cakora

 

Which sects does cakora belong to.?

 

Ummm...the 'Vaishnava' sect?

 

 

¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- jijaji

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 11-16-2001).]

[cakora 0]

Originally posted by jijaji:

Which sects does cakora belong to.?

 

Ummm...the 'Vaishnava' sect?

 

Wow, jijaji! Such profound and accurate use of intuition!

 

[mahak 0]

Haribol, satyaraja, good topic (I think).

 

You state:

 

"Sanatana Dharma as a universal tradition has room for all faiths and all religious and spiritual practices regardless of the time or country of their origin.

 

It is the oldest, most complex and enigmatic of the world's major system of philosophies, theologies and beliefs and the most atypical compared to predominant Western belief systems

 

According to Sanatana Dharma, or the universal tradition, evolution should be the progressive unfoldment of the capacities of the soul toward the ultimate goal of Self-realization."

 

mahak comment: sanatana dharma is actually devoid of religiosity, for it is not springing from anywhere but the self. Sanatana dharma cannot be joined, nor quit, excommunication is impossible. Sanatana dharma is who we actually are, and defines as the "eternal function of the self". Any "evolution" must be thought of as a project of "memory revival", not an injection of dogmatic beliefs.

 

You ask: "Does Sanatana-dharma accept Prophets and Messiahs?"

 

Mahak comment: Prophets, messaihs, gurus, acaryas, mullahs, are seen by the "self" as such in regard to the power of reviving memory of sanatana dharma. If one uses the phrase "sanatana dharma" to designate a religious belief or eccliastic system, then the meaning of the phrase is moot.

 

You ask: "Are there any dogmas within Sanatana-dharma?"

 

mahak comment: again, if your use of the phrase "sanatana dharma" is to separate it from actual self realization, that becomes dogmatic in itself. However, one who has memory partially restored to the actual self will accept universal truth because it is true, not by dogmatic "who has said this" or "which sect has approved this" etc. I, myself, also accept the truth of bhagavad gita because of practical application and time tested reliability. A bible banger may object, but I have accepted many things from western scripture as reality as well, despite protests of my vaisnava tradition peers.

 

You ask: "What is the role of sects such as Vaisnavas' within Sanatana-dharma?"

 

mahak comment: While I agree that there has been sectarianizing of vaisnava tradition, I do not regard Vaisnavism as a sect, but as a vehicle for reviving memory of sanatana dharma. The self must conclude that a superior self exists, and this is called theism. Atheists have no need to discuss these things, so, to continue discussion here, we all must be theists. Vaisnavism may refer to Lord Vishnu, which may indicate a hindu god, but if Vaisnavism is meaning the "Supreme Person" without equal, this hump may be overcome.

 

as far as sects, schools, centers, temples, mosques, churches, etc. go, they are valuable only to the extent they help revive the memory of the actual self. If a church stresses membership at the automatic exclusion of others, it is useless, and may very well cause de-evolution in regard to sanatana dharma. Practices of yoga, mantra meditation, kirtana, these are very helpful to the memory revival process, and a sect that emphasizes such practice can be seen as quite valuable. Though some events such as deity worship are viewed by some as mechanical, such mechanics has a true purpose if it leadsa to sanatana dharma. If the practices themselves become supreme, all may well be lost is such mechanics.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Guest guest]

 

For certain Caitanya is celebrated by many of sanatana-dharma’s schools of thought as one of its most eminent instructors. Within his dialog with Ramananda (Ramananda-samvada), Caitanya has established 6 main stages or platforms during a jiva’s evolution, as follows:

 

1. Avaidhis; jivas who are bellow the stage of adherence to sastric injunctions. They are living like animals and other low species, only worried with their gross sense gratification, completely deluded by gross material affairs in spite of their human bodies.

 

2. Sakama-karmis: jivas who are adherent to sastric injunctions as a mean to increase their sense gratification. They enter into de system of kama, artha and dharma with the sole purpose of increase their sense gratification in a more sophisticated way. They may be theists or atheists.

 

3. Niskama-karmis: jivas who had realized that by following tri-varga (kama, artha, dharma) they cannot attain everlasting pleasure. Their tendency is, therefore, to reject karma and its implications. They may offer the result of their karma to Bhagavan and follow a theist discipline or they may opt to perform dry renunciation in a non believer way.

 

4. Saranagati; jivas who surrender all their karma, vikarma and akarma to the Ultimate Reality, Hari, realizing that they need to be instructed on spiritual matters by a bona fide source of this kind of knowledge and they act accord to their previous tendencies of theism and atheism to fulfil that aim . They actually are freed from karma-marga forever and at the entrance door of a superior platform .

5. Jñanis; jivas who are in the process of spiritual instruction, studding and following sastric instructions on how to attain vidya and mukti after the stage were they understood the importance on to surrender to those instructions (saranagati) as the only way to attain mukti.

 

6. Suddha-bhakti or pure bhakti a stage after mukti, were a liberate would reciprocates with Hari according to his own satya-sankalpa.

 

Indeed this a very beautiful summary on sanatana-dharma’s stages of evolution given by a great master.

 

[Tarun 6]

ZrIla ZrIdhardev told us:

"BhAgavatam supposedly includes 18,000 verses of which only 14,000 are visible."

First Canto includes 808, exactly 108 more than GItA.

Accountnts, mathematicns, numerologsts:

1) Pulled out those calculatrs.

2) Start turning those pages.

Or as ZrIla Bv PrabhupAd advised:

"If u have to tax your brain, do it for KRSNa."

dharmaH projjhita kaitavo'tra paramo nirmatsarANAM satAM...

 

[Sephiroth 0]

Prophets or Messiahs?

 

Sure ..., however there is some difference. In Hindusm, Sages and Saints are mere humans with fault and sins. They are not angels.

 

In Hindusm, Sage's actions are questioned by people. They are not like some prophets who are redeemed sinless and therefore, his actions are unquestionable. Islam has this sort of approach and therefore one of its weakness.

 

Messiahs? If Messiahs are like Prophets, above conditions still applied to them. If Messiahs are like sons of God, then I don't see what a big deal about them either.

 

Great Sage such as Pralathan (despite of been born from Arakan/Giant family) is called "Son" by Lord Vishnu (according to Mahabratha). Many Sages are also called Sons and Daughters by both Lord Shiva AND Lord Vishnu, so, safe to say, anyone who lives for God's sake is God's children.

 

I don't understand what dogma is. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Vaishnavas are just fools who say their worship is better than others, and attack Shavittes for their worship (toward Shiva).

 

It is not who is right and who is wrong, it is how you approach God that makes a difference.