Digest Number 395

[Guest guest]

Even though I don't agree with you about where to allow cats to go, and

would personally probably keep a cat indoors if I had one, except to let it

out in an enclosed garden if possible when I was there, I was also shocked

at Jo's nuisance animals comment, coming from a vegan that is very odd!

I would think outdoor cats are more in danger from cars than they are a

nuisance to people!

 

Lesley

 

 

 

Janey [janey]

12 July 2002 21:18

 

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

Jo,

 

Nuisance animals?????! Look at all the bloody nuisance humans in the

world!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg!

 

I became a vegan because I don't feel that I have a right to eat someone

else's body. I don't feel that humans are better than *animals*. We are

all animals and its wrong to think that humans are *better*.

 

So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats? What makes you think

that you are better than cats so they shouldn't encroach into your life and

become a nuisance to *you*. Maybe you are a nuisance to *them*! This world

wasn't given to humans.

 

I don't like all this hierarchy stuff. We were all put on the earth and we

are equals. We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

ourselves.

 

I give my cats the love and respect they deserve. If they want to go out -

I let them out. If they want to sleep on my bed - they can do that. I

don't deprive them of such luxuries that I enjoy myself.

 

Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*. They

weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time. FREEDOM. What a

beautiful word!

 

And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats. They are very

particular animals. LOL!

 

Janey

x

 

> My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

> should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or

not

> keep that animal at all. It is you that made the decision to keep a

> nuisance animal.

>

> Jo

 

 

 

 

 

To send an email to -

 

 

[Guest guest]

I'm not psychic and cannot follow my cats all day as I have to go to work . If the public don't complain then presumably they are not bothered . I'm not easily bothered either.I don't mind sharing my garden .

I wish the owner of all the slugs would stop them climbing into my garden tho'. I hate the noise when I tread on them

 

 

Peter [snowbow] 12 July 2002 16:06 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

> Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't

> been listening to you.

 

Responsible cat ownership is making sure that your cats are not a nuisance to others. By the fact that you state you take no responsibility for what your cats do seems a pretty clear indication that you have very little concern for the trouble they cause to others.

 

> I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a

> cat hater is it ???

 

Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for the probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they cause - it would appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant.

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Janey

 

> So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats? What makes you

think

> that you are better than cats so they shouldn't encroach into your life

and

> become a nuisance to *you*.

 

Because cats would not be a nuisance except for the fact that humans

encourage them to breed, and then take them out of nature.

 

> I don't like all this hierarchy stuff. We were all put on the earth and

we

> are equals. We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

> ourselves.

 

I sure hope one of your neighbours gets hold of a pet elephant and lets it

run wild. Of course, that would be fine, because we are all equal, and you

might annoy it as much as it annoys you.

 

> I give my cats the love and respect they deserve. If they want to go

out -

> I let them out. If they want to sleep on my bed - they can do that. I

> don't deprive them of such luxuries that I enjoy myself.

 

But you do deprive your neighbours of certain luxuries by not taking

responsibility for your decision to look after a pet. And you deprive other

creatures of the most basic luxury (i.e. life) by allowing your cat to go

out to kill birds whenever it wants.

 

> Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*. They

> weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time.

 

They certainly weren't put on this earth to be bred as pets and looked after

by humans. You've already taken them out of nature - you must take

responsibility for *your* decision.

 

> FREEDOM. What a

> beautiful word!

 

It is indeed - but one person's freedom should not impinge on more basic

freedoms of others.

 

> And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats. They are very

> particular animals. LOL!

 

Anyway, since you've suddenly become so keen on " nature " , isn't it time to

switch off the PC, sell your house and return to the caves? :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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[Guest guest]

*raises eyebrow*

stepping on slugs??

thats it..a confessed murderess!!!

i saw her do it!! i'm a witness..

she probably took linderg's baby also..and shot jr....and...

 

the idea is not to let the kitties outside all by their lonesome my dear..

jo and peters issues with kitties i think is being taken out of context

and gawd durn it!! i said i quit...

grrrr

* makes pissy face*

now i'm blood well talking about it again....

thanx angie....

fraggle

*stomps feet*

(not near slugs)

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>I'm not psychic and cannot follow my cats all day as I have to go to

>work . If the public don't complain then presumably they are not

>bothered . I'm not easily bothered either.I don't mind sharing my garden

>.

>I wish the owner of all the slugs would stop them climbing into my

>garden tho'.   I hate the noise when I tread on them

>

>Angie

>

>

>Peter [snowbow]

>12 July 2002 16:06

>

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>Angie

>

>> Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is

>because obviously we are all in the wrong . and  we haven't

>> been listening to you.

>

>Responsible cat ownership is making sure that your cats are not a

>nuisance to others. By the fact that you state you take no

>responsibility for what your cats do seems a pretty clear indication

>that you have very little concern for the trouble they cause to others.

>

>> I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously

>right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a

>> cat hater is it ???

>

>Not at all. What I hate is people who refuse to take responsibility for

>the probelms they cause. The cats are ignorant of the problems they

>cause - it would appear that many cat owners are simply ignorant.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I just can't make myself consider every non-vegan a Nazi because they have different values than me. The average person is brought up to think of meat as a necessary and normal food. I'd feel like a Nazi myself if I tried to police what everyone around me was eating. We're not going to change anyone that way. I try to lead by example, and most of the time people are accepting and interested rather than defensive.

 

- Muffy

 

-

kiwi2000

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:16 PM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

Would you love a Nazi hoping that one day he'll

stop exterminating Jews?

Brad

 

-

Heartwork

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:41 PM

Re: Digest Number 395

HannahI think what you say is very true. It is possible to find a lot to like orlove in someone who does not do all the things you do, and there is alwaysthe chance that they may change their habits anyway.Jo> I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are great betweenus (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan meals and heseems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto). Still if henever changes, I love him just the same. I understand the want to shareyour life with another vegan, but from my experience I would have lost outon a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater. But then again, he's Baptistand I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.>> Oh, and all the kitty talk makes me so sad. For everyone who has sickkitties, good luck to both of you. I am currently living w/o my kittiescause I had to move into a place that wouldn't allow them. I miss them somuch, but my mom and dad are taking care of them. I am doing everything Ican to move just to have them with me again.>> Hannah>> > EBbrewpunx > 7/9/02 11:15 AM> Re: Digest Number 395>> ok> this is gonna sound hella crappy> but..ummm> there are tons of vegans out there kids!!! or folks who are willing to> try new things, er wotever...> i know you have yer mate out there, just a-waitin' fer ya!> maybe i'm just lucky in that the last several relationships either> started with a vegan er they quickly went vegan> sadly, they probably aren't anymore..just to spite me, and they probably> stab kitties in the toes as well..just to be evil!!>> so..pam is gonna be a lawyer, is vegan likes dogs and cats, and rides a> bike.....> *bats eyelashes*>> if only i had an open realtionship again....or was single...> hahahahhahaahahah> tell me you like beer and i'm yers> ahahahahah> cheers> fraggle>>> "Pgh Pam" <pghpam wrote:>> >>>You are very lucky Jo and I envy you both. I wish I could find a> >compatible male friend/lover. but I'd want them to be vegan as well .> There> >aren't many about !!!!!<<> >> >I kind of like Fraggle's comment about the pheremones - we need a> radar. I> >think I'm about to give up myself - Try being 40, very set in your> ways,> >living in a house with 3 VERY large psychotic dogs, 3 old domineering> >kitties, going to law school (so person must have something of a mind -> >can't get by on body alone - LOL), but being a die-hard Harley biker> (so> >person must also be somewhat of a hellion and tattoos and long hair are> >acceptable just have to be able to change out of that black harley> t-shirt> >every now and then for "appearances" at lawyer functions - LOL), being> >strict vegan, and being extremely involved in animal rights work all> other> >non-working hours. Not many men out there fall into that category -> >especially in Pittsburgh, PA - gads I gotta move!! Thought I found one> last> >winter but I was so thrilled to find a male "version of me" that I> scared> >him off!!! LOL!!! Still don't quite know how I did it because anyone> that> >dates me gets to squeeze in about a total of 4 unused hours a week -> you> >would think that should solve the fear of committment - hahahaha!!!> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > >> >

[Guest guest]

No animal is a nuisance . It is humans that are often intolerant .

You don't know my cat Please retract the remark that he is a nuisance .

If the tabloids get wind of it , It will make the headlines and the cat

will be accused of all sorts including killing kids !

 

Should I keep my nuisance child indoors too . I didn't exactly choose

him ,but he makes irritating noises and talks to himself . I know it

bothers some humans because they give him funny looks and tut!. They

bother me . Perhaps I should tell them to go indoors . Who decides ?

Who has the greater right ?

 

I think it will be me who decides until they make a complaint . Then of

course I will do what they want because they are more important than

me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork]

12 July 2002 18:45

 

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or

not keep that animal at all. It is you that made the decision to keep a

nuisance animal.

 

Jo

 

 

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[Guest guest]

This is life ... Things get killed .

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 19:01 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395> we have a huge problem with cats not only killin birds, but bats..thatsright, bats..> and, cats can certainly kill a whole lot of voles, shrews, mice, bunnies,and wot have you at nite..This is so true Fraggle. Cats even take on foxes (the foxes usually try toavoid cats).> no, i'm not sayin yer bad er someone should take yer kitties away> but, a cat can get killed just as easily at nite as during the day,Also very true. Some time ago there was a knock on the door early in themorning - one of my irresponsible neighbours (whose cat pooed daily in mygarden and killed many birds) asking if I could scrape her cat off the roadbecause it had been run over in the night. This person could not even bringher own poor animal home.Jo---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Mine often do it in my garden and bury it if not disturbed.Have you had diseases from cats then .. I've had chicken pox and 'flu both from humans not cats . I know many people who have caught diseases from people None from cats . I don't object to clearing up after animals only people who should know better

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 19:39 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Angie

 

 

We've had our fair share of them as well, but it doesn't mean that nothing else is as bad. In fact cats are a little like that anyway, because they don't choose to poop in their own gardens - they always go somewhere else, unless their owner trains them and provides a litter tray, or a frequently dug section in their own garden. As you are annoyed at having to clear up after what your neighbours do in your garden, you must realise that it is equally annoying to have to clear up after a neighbours animals.

 

>

The cats that have used our garden usually scratch around for a little (usually digging up a few seedlings which have recently been planted), do their poop, and then scratch around a bit more. It is all very much a hit and miss affair. Sometimes they manage to cover it a little, but not often.

 

>All the diseases I have ever got were from people ..

 

Maybe that's because your cats poop in other peoples gardens, so the worms/germs are in their garden not yours!

 

>Dangerous things these people .. Ban them I say .

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

> I sure hope one of your neighbours gets hold of a pet elephant and lets it

> run wild. Of course, that would be fine, because we are all equal, and you

> might annoy it as much as it annoys you.

 

A pet elephant? Are we having a hypothetical discussion or a *real life*

one?

 

 

> But you do deprive your neighbours of certain luxuries by not taking

> responsibility for your decision to look after a pet. And you deprive

other

> creatures of the most basic luxury (i.e. life) by allowing your cat to go

> out to kill birds whenever it wants.

 

Nope. Not true!

>

 

> They certainly weren't put on this earth to be bred as pets and looked

after

> by humans. You've already taken them out of nature - you must take

> responsibility for *your* decision.

 

Yep and we were originally apes. We've evolved, and so has the domestic

cat. Ape men never ate tins of baked beans just like cats never ate tinned

cat food. And your point is ...?

 

>

> It is indeed - but one person's freedom should not impinge on more basic

> freedoms of others.

 

I've never heard of all these worries about cats. Most people go about

their daily lives without the knowledge of whether their neighbours have

cats or not. In the context of things, cats are a minor worry to those who

have nothing better to worry about! Its human nature to see bad things in

life, but sometimes you have to learn not to let little things worry you.

 

>

>

> Anyway, since you've suddenly become so keen on " nature " , isn't it time to

> switch off the PC, sell your house and return to the caves? :-)

 

I am practically a 100% rawfoodist, so I'm getting there. I'm all for

*getting back to nature*, so you're right about me there. I expect the tv

will go one day and we'll see what happens after that. :-)

>

 

Janey

x

 

> BB

> Peter

>

>

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>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

ah..muffy has compassion

and a willing to educate

bravo!

fraggle

*has a headache and is lookin forward to going home*

 

" James & Muffy Caldwell " <jmc62701 wrote:

 

>    I just can't make myself consider every non-vegan a Nazi because they have

different values than me.  The average person is brought up to think of meat as

a necessary and normal food.  I'd feel like a Nazi myself if I tried to police

what everyone around me was eating.  We're not going to change anyone that way.

 I try to lead by example, and most of the time people are accepting and

interested rather than defensive.

>

> - Muffy

>  -

>  kiwi2000

>  

>  Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:16 PM

>  Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>   Would you love a Nazi hoping that one day he'll

>  stop exterminating Jews?

>                                                      Brad

>    -

>    Heartwork

>    

>    Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:41 PM

>    Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>    Hannah

>

>    I think what you say is very true.  It is possible to find a lot to like or

>    love in someone who does not do all the things you do, and there is always

>    the chance that they may change their habits anyway.

>

>    Jo

>

>    > I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are great

between

>    us (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan meals and he

>    seems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto).  Still if he

>    never changes, I love him just the same.  I understand the want to share

>    your life with another vegan, but from my experience I would have lost out

>    on a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater.  But then again, he's

Baptist

>    and I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.

>    >

>    > Oh, and all the kitty talk makes me so sad.  For everyone who has sick

>    kitties, good luck to both of you.  I am currently living w/o my kitties

>    cause I had to move into a place that wouldn't allow them.  I miss them so

>    much, but my mom and dad are taking care of them.  I am doing everything I

>    can to move just to have them with me again.

>    >

>    > Hannah

>    >

>    >

>    > EBbrewpunx

>    >

>    > 7/9/02 11:15 AM

>    > Re: Digest Number 395

>    >

>    > ok

>    > this is gonna sound hella crappy

>    > but..ummm

>    > there are tons of vegans out there kids!!! or folks who are willing to

>    > try new things, er wotever...

>    > i know you have yer mate out there, just  a-waitin' fer ya!

>    > maybe i'm just lucky in that the last several relationships either

>    > started with a vegan er they quickly went vegan

>    > sadly, they probably aren't anymore..just to spite me, and they probably

>    > stab kitties in the toes as well..just to be evil!!

>    >

>    > so..pam is gonna be a lawyer, is vegan likes dogs and cats, and rides a

>    > bike.....

>    > *bats eyelashes*

>    >

>    > if only i had an open realtionship again....or was single...

>    > hahahahhahaahahah

>    > tell me you like beer and i'm yers

>    > ahahahahah

>    > cheers

>    > fraggle

>    >

>    >

>    > " Pgh Pam " <pghpam wrote:

>    >

>    > >>>You are very lucky Jo and I envy you both. I wish I could find a

>    > >compatible male friend/lover. but I'd want them to be vegan as well .

>    > There

>    > >aren't many about !!!!!<<

>    > >

>    > >I kind of like Fraggle's comment about the pheremones - we need a

>    > radar.  I

>    > >think I'm about to give up myself - Try being 40, very set in your

>    > ways,

>    > >living in a house with 3 VERY large psychotic dogs, 3 old domineering

>    > >kitties, going to law school (so person must have something of a mind -

>    > >can't get by on body alone - LOL), but being a die-hard Harley biker

>    > (so

>    > >person must also be somewhat of a hellion and tattoos and long hair are

>    > >acceptable just have to be able to change out of that black harley

>    > t-shirt

>    > >every now and then for " appearances " at lawyer functions - LOL), being

>    > >strict vegan, and being extremely involved in animal rights work all

>    > other

>    > >non-working hours.  Not many men out there fall into that category -

>    > >especially in Pittsburgh, PA - gads I gotta move!!  Thought I found one

>    > last

>    > >winter but I was so thrilled to find a male " version of me " that I

>    > scared

>    > >him off!!! LOL!!!  Still don't quite know how I did it because anyone

>    > that

>    > >dates me gets to squeeze in about a total of 4 unused hours a week -

>    > you

>    > >would think that should solve the fear of committment - hahahaha!!!

>    > >

>    > >

>    > >

>    > >

>    > >To send an email to -

>    > >

>    > >

[Guest guest]

I've got a huge veruca, definitely from a human!

 

Lesley

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]12 July 2002 23:48 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395

Mine often do it in my garden and bury it if not disturbed.Have you had diseases from cats then .. I've had chicken pox and 'flu both from humans not cats . I know many people who have caught diseases from people None from cats . I don't object to clearing up after animals only people who should know better

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 19:39 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Angie

 

 

We've had our fair share of them as well, but it doesn't mean that nothing else is as bad. In fact cats are a little like that anyway, because they don't choose to poop in their own gardens - they always go somewhere else, unless their owner trains them and provides a litter tray, or a frequently dug section in their own garden. As you are annoyed at having to clear up after what your neighbours do in your garden, you must realise that it is equally annoying to have to clear up after a neighbours animals.

 

>

The cats that have used our garden usually scratch around for a little (usually digging up a few seedlings which have recently been planted), do their poop, and then scratch around a bit more. It is all very much a hit and miss affair. Sometimes they manage to cover it a little, but not often.

 

>All the diseases I have ever got were from people ..

 

Maybe that's because your cats poop in other peoples gardens, so the worms/germs are in their garden not yours!

 

>Dangerous things these people .. Ban them I say .

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

I don't have birds in my garden . They have the sense to stay away . Birds aren't usually stupid

 

The cats may poo at night but then so do I

You can't take responsibility for a free animal only a slave animal

If I am a nuisance why have my neighbours told you and not me .----and are they actually telling the truth ---Humans do lie !!! How well do you know my neighbours ?

 

I have not told Peter to shut up . That is not my place to do so !! But why should he think he has the only correct answer to the way cats should be kept . There is no law that demands certain behaviour of cat owners as there is with dogs .

I also haven't called anyone silly I am just giving my opinion and replying to posts But I don't see why I should be expected to agree with someone if I don't agree . I have not said what I think of people who keep cats indoors . But I wouldn't imprison my cat unless there was danger for the cat . I prefer animals to be free

 

The hate comment was not meant to be taken literally . . And you don't know how well I get on with people ... You might be surprised

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 19:45 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Angie

 

>My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ).

 

I expect the owners of the cats who kill all the birds in my garden don't know that they are killing birds (what's left of the poor little things is left on my lawn, with feathers strewn all around) - just because the owners don't know, it doesn't mean that their cats are not killing birds.

 

 

>And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they >are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less >traffic and no birds so night seems best to me ,

 

Don't they poop at night then?

 

>But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to >dictate to them what they should do . Not many people >dictate to me ....except my employers ! .

 

You are dependent on your employers for a living, which is why they may be able to dictate to you. Your cat is dependent on you for a living, which is why you may be able to dictate to it, and maybe take some responsibility for it.

 

 

>Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the >streets clean ? No !

>Cats are not considered by law to be the property of >humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined >if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat

 

Does this excuse the fact that you are being a nuisance by owning an animal that you are not taking responsibility for?

 

>Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat >ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . >and we haven't been listening to you.

 

Responsible behaviour - Werner, and about three other cat owners on this list have said that they keep their cats in doors, and supply them with all the love and home comforts (and a litter tray) that the cats could want. Haven't you read their emails.

 

>I shall go and punish myself very severely because you >are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......

 

I think you are being a little silly Angie. This is a discussion - should Peter just shut up because you say so? or have the points he has made hit a sore spot?

 

>Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ???

 

Peter is not any sort of animal hater, and I fail to see how the points made in his part of this discussion have made you come to this conclusion. He has probably never mentioned the strange effect he has on animals. It is amazing - they love him. If there is a dog or cat within a hundred yards, they perk up and do all they can to get near him. Even butterflies land on him. I don't think that would happen if they felt any hate emanating from him

 

>I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll >share them with you sometime

 

I think you already did once. It's a shame you feel hate for anything - it cannot be a comfortable feeling, and somewhat precludes allowing love to enter your life.

 

BBJo

 

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[Guest guest]

>A pet elephant? Are we having a hypothetical discussion or a *real life*

>one?

 

Bart Simpson had a pet elephant. Stampy. Just saying is all.

 

Guess if you were having a real life discussion then you'd instead ask

about 'owner' responsibility for letting your large dog play freely (sans

leash/lead, sans muzzle) in the garden next door to the one with the wee

children in it.

 

Hehe, Stampy.

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

And I've got a headache - definitely as a result of being around too many nagging humans today! LOL!

 

Janey

x

 

 

-

Lesley Dove

Friday, July 12, 2002 11:51 PM

RE: Digest Number 395

 

I've got a huge veruca, definitely from a human!

 

Lesley

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]12 July 2002 23:48 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395

Mine often do it in my garden and bury it if not disturbed.Have you had diseases from cats then .. I've had chicken pox and 'flu both from humans not cats . I know many people who have caught diseases from people None from cats . I don't object to clearing up after animals only people who should know better

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 12 July 2002 19:39 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Angie

 

 

We've had our fair share of them as well, but it doesn't mean that nothing else is as bad. In fact cats are a little like that anyway, because they don't choose to poop in their own gardens - they always go somewhere else, unless their owner trains them and provides a litter tray, or a frequently dug section in their own garden. As you are annoyed at having to clear up after what your neighbours do in your garden, you must realise that it is equally annoying to have to clear up after a neighbours animals.

 

>

The cats that have used our garden usually scratch around for a little (usually digging up a few seedlings which have recently been planted), do their poop, and then scratch around a bit more. It is all very much a hit and miss affair. Sometimes they manage to cover it a little, but not often.

 

>All the diseases I have ever got were from people ..

 

Maybe that's because your cats poop in other peoples gardens, so the worms/germs are in their garden not yours!

 

>Dangerous things these people .. Ban them I say .

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Hooray for Angie! :-)

 

Janey

x

 

 

I don't have birds in my garden . They have the sense to stay away . Birds aren't usually stupid

 

The cats may poo at night but then so do I

You can't take responsibility for a free animal only a slave animal

If I am a nuisance why have my neighbours told you and not me .----and are they actually telling the truth ---Humans do lie !!! How well do you know my neighbours ?

 

I have not told Peter to shut up . That is not my place to do so !! But why should he think he has the only correct answer to the way cats should be kept . There is no law that demands certain behaviour of cat owners as there is with dogs .

I also haven't called anyone silly I am just giving my opinion and replying to posts But I don't see why I should be expected to agree with someone if I don't agree . I have not said what I think of people who keep cats indoors . But I wouldn't imprison my cat unless there was danger for the cat . I prefer animals to be free

 

The hate comment was not meant to be taken literally . . And you don't know how well I get on with people ... You might be surprised

[Guest guest]

stampy was rad..and a very good elephant..why, he even saved barney gumble..

not like that evil nellie..who packed his trunks and said goodbye to the circus

*ba-boom*

 

fraggle

 

 

Mavreela <nec.lists wrote:

 

>

>>A pet elephant?  Are we having a hypothetical discussion or a *real life*

>>one?

>

>Bart Simpson had a pet elephant.  Stampy. Just saying is all.

>

>Guess if you were having a real life discussion then you'd instead ask

>about 'owner' responsibility for letting your large dog play freely (sans

>leash/lead, sans muzzle) in the garden next door to the one with the wee

>children in it.

>

>Hehe, Stampy.

>

>Michael

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Janey

 

I don't feel that humans are better than animals. I don't think that

animals are better than humans. It is a fact that (whether we like it or

not) humans run society. It is because of this that the numbers of cats is

out of kilter with the natural balance. It is not the fault of the cats

that they are a nuisance to me, it is the fault of the owners, who seems to

think they have a right to own several cats (not just one) and let them roam

around spoiling other peoples hard work and killing lots of small animals.

Don't forget that in a 'natural' world we might behave like cats and kill

things smaller than ourselves when they annoy us, rather than hope that

their owners would keep them under control.

 

 

> I don't like all this hierarchy stuff. We were all put on the earth and

we

> are equals. We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

> ourselves.

 

I have no heirarchy stuff. If you remember rightly, when I was explaining

my Paganism I pointed out that as far as I am concerned people, animals,

trees, rocks are all one and the same. Because you are annoyed at my points

in the discussion you assume that I am saying things that I am not. Has it

not occurred to you that you are putting yourself above other people by not

caring about messing up their gardens, and putting yourself above small

mammals and birds, by owning animals that take away their lives - a very

basic right. You are actually doing what you are accusing me of. You are

taking on the roll of a god by saying that a cat's right to roam is more

important than a birds life (well, actually several birds lives). When we

accept equality and freedom we also accept responsibility.

 

> Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*. They

> weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time. FREEDOM. What a

> beautiful word!

 

I don't look down on animals, but I don't idolise them either. Imagine that

you liked birds, and see it from that point of view.

 

> And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats. They are very

> particular animals. LOL!

 

In which way?

 

Jo

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Well explained Janey My opinion too

 

 

Janey [janey]

12 July 2002 21:18

 

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

Jo,

 

Nuisance animals?????! Look at all the bloody nuisance humans in the

world!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg!

 

I became a vegan because I don't feel that I have a right to eat someone

else's body. I don't feel that humans are better than *animals*. We

are all animals and its wrong to think that humans are *better*.

 

So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats? What makes you

think that you are better than cats so they

 

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[Guest guest]

The bats / songbirds are free . why deny that freedom to cats . They should have equal rights to be free

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 21:28 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395deep breathe janeycount to ten..take ten breathes..really..it works..you are reading this wrongyou also just said that cats weren't humans, and now you are sayin there are no differencesi don't see anyone sayin we are better er anythingbut..fine..if that how you feel, fine..my neighbors pitbulls will be hangin out in yer neighborhood soon...wandering freecats are beautiful creatures..but, face it, they are not "natural" we have bred them, brought them to share our livesnow wot about all the other lives the lil buggers impact? they don't count, do "our" cats have more rights then songbirds? bats? shrews? you want them to be happy, but, at wot cost??doesn't seem fair to me.fraggle>>>> Jo>>>>>>To send an email to - >>

[Guest guest]

>Yes I'm frightened to go out in case the hoards of cats >attack me and give me a deadly disease

 

More likely to go out and tread in a pile of poop on the front door step, or if I'm really lucky II'll get it on the way in on a dark winter's night.

 

Jo

 

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 00:36 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395cats and dogs run amok..i've seen em..they gather in little gangs..smoke dope, harrass old ladies...its all a nuisance i tells ya....someone should alert the authorities..i recommend random drug testing fer all felines..them and there cat nip...cheersfraggle"Angie Wright" <angiewright wrote:>Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .> I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road>before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place > >Angie>

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Lesley

 

I don't dislike any animal - I do however like birds very much. I think

they are lovely, fluffy, sweet little animals that do no harm, and at

present are having a job to survive because there are too many cats around.

To these birds - cats are a nuisance, and I see no reason why I should not

speak the truth. If you cannot see the reasoning behind this then there is

no hope for the future of birdkind, but then I suppose if you don't like

birds, it doesn't matter to you.

 

Jo

 

> Even though I don't agree with you about where to allow cats to go, and

> would personally probably keep a cat indoors if I had one, except to let

it

> out in an enclosed garden if possible when I was there, I was also shocked

> at Jo's nuisance animals comment, coming from a vegan that is very odd!

> I would think outdoor cats are more in danger from cars than they are a

> nuisance to people!

>

> Lesley

>

>

>

> Janey [janey]

> 12 July 2002 21:18

>

> Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

> Jo,

>

> Nuisance animals?????! Look at all the bloody nuisance humans in the

> world!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg!

>

> I became a vegan because I don't feel that I have a right to eat someone

> else's body. I don't feel that humans are better than *animals*. We are

> all animals and its wrong to think that humans are *better*.

>

> So, how can you differentiate between humans and cats? What makes you

think

> that you are better than cats so they shouldn't encroach into your life

and

> become a nuisance to *you*. Maybe you are a nuisance to *them*! This

world

> wasn't given to humans.

>

> I don't like all this hierarchy stuff. We were all put on the earth and

we

> are equals. We should love our fellow animals as indeed we are animals

> ourselves.

>

> I give my cats the love and respect they deserve. If they want to go

out -

> I let them out. If they want to sleep on my bed - they can do that. I

> don't deprive them of such luxuries that I enjoy myself.

>

> Please don't look down on animals and think of them as *nuisances*. They

> weren't put on this earth to be cooped up all the time. FREEDOM. What a

> beautiful word!

>

> And remember, please don't end up being a nuisance to cats. They are very

> particular animals. LOL!

>

> Janey

> x

>

> > My point would be that if you keep an animal that is a nuisance then you

> > should either keep it indoors so that it is not a nuisance to others, or

> not

> > keep that animal at all. It is you that made the decision to keep a

> > nuisance animal.

> >

> > Jo

>

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

ddin't i say truce??

do you really want me to continue?

er are you just catching up?

i'll hold

besides..my brain hurts

fraggle

 

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>The bats / songbirds are free . why deny that freedom to cats . They

>should  have equal rights to be free

>

>

>EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>12 July 2002 21:28

>

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>deep breathe janey

>count to ten..take ten breathes..

>really..it works..

>

>you are reading this wrong

>you also just said that cats weren't humans, and now you are sayin there

>are no differences

>i don't see anyone sayin we are better er anything

>but..fine..if that how you feel, fine..my neighbors pitbulls will be

>hangin out in yer neighborhood soon...wandering free

>cats are beautiful creatures..but, face it, they are not " natural "

>we have bred them, brought them to share our lives

>now wot about all the other lives the lil buggers impact? they don't

>count, do " our " cats have more rights then songbirds? bats? shrews? you

>want them to be happy, but, at wot cost??

>doesn't seem fair to me.

>fraggle

>

>>>

>>> Jo

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>To send an email to -

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

My son got ring worm but he doesn't live with me now and doesn't have cats . Can you get it from dogs ?

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 12 July 2002 22:55 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395dependsyou probably won'ti've known several folks who have gotten ringworm from cats....try not to play in cat litter and feces....i know its fun, but...fraggle

 

 

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[Guest guest]

mmhmm

and cat feces

and in the soil..and..

but, it is often spread by kitties

you don't need to have one..they spread it in their poo

*shrugs*

fraggle

 

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>My son got ring worm but he doesn't live with me now and doesn't have

>cats . Can you get it from dogs ?

>

>Angie

>

>

>EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>12 July 2002 22:55

>

>RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>depends

>you probably won't

>i've known several folks who have gotten ringworm from cats....

>try not to play in cat litter and feces....

>i know its fun, but...

>fraggle

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>---

>

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>Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I think it will be me who decides until they make a complaint . Then of

> course I will do what they want because they are more important than

> me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

where in reality you are doing what you want because you are more important

than others!

 

Jo

 

 

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