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obviously we all have different opinions on veganism...

to me, its an easy thing..i made a choice..yes, i would like others to see it

also, seems rather simple to me..but then, not everyone thinks like me...

thank bacchus fer that eh?

 

 

kiwi2000 <kiwi2000 wrote:

 

>Jo,

>        you talk about being a vegan as if it's a very casual thing for people.

For most people it's far from casual. It's not just a matter of him liking

football and her liking soap operas. It's very much more encompassing than that.

It's about murdering innocent animals for food when it is totally

>unnecessary. I would find it impossible to love someone who didn't understand

this. Which begs the question, what then is love. Is it just attraction?

Shouldn't it have something to do with strongly held beliefs and shared values?

Would you love a Nazi hoping that one day he'll

>stop exterminating Jews?

>                                                    Brad

>  -

>  Heartwork

>  

>  Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:41 PM

>  Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>  Hannah

>

>  I think what you say is very true.  It is possible to find a lot to like or

>  love in someone who does not do all the things you do, and there is always

>  the chance that they may change their habits anyway.

>

>  Jo

>

>  > I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are great between

>  us (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan meals and he

>  seems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto).  Still if he

>  never changes, I love him just the same.  I understand the want to share

>  your life with another vegan, but from my experience I would have lost out

>  on a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater.  But then again, he's Baptist

>  and I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.

>  >

>  > Oh, and all the kitty talk makes me so sad.  For everyone who has sick

>  kitties, good luck to both of you.  I am currently living w/o my kitties

>  cause I had to move into a place that wouldn't allow them.  I miss them so

>  much, but my mom and dad are taking care of them.  I am doing everything I

>  can to move just to have them with me again.

>  >

>  > Hannah

>  >

>  >

>  > EBbrewpunx

>  >

>  > 7/9/02 11:15 AM

>  > Re: Digest Number 395

>  >

>  > ok

>  > this is gonna sound hella crappy

>  > but..ummm

>  > there are tons of vegans out there kids!!! or folks who are willing to

>  > try new things, er wotever...

>  > i know you have yer mate out there, just  a-waitin' fer ya!

>  > maybe i'm just lucky in that the last several relationships either

>  > started with a vegan er they quickly went vegan

>  > sadly, they probably aren't anymore..just to spite me, and they probably

>  > stab kitties in the toes as well..just to be evil!!

>  >

>  > so..pam is gonna be a lawyer, is vegan likes dogs and cats, and rides a

>  > bike.....

>  > *bats eyelashes*

>  >

>  > if only i had an open realtionship again....or was single...

>  > hahahahhahaahahah

>  > tell me you like beer and i'm yers

>  > ahahahahah

>  > cheers

>  > fraggle

>  >

>  >

>  > " Pgh Pam " <pghpam wrote:

>  >

>  > >>>You are very lucky Jo and I envy you both. I wish I could find a

>  > >compatible male friend/lover. but I'd want them to be vegan as well .

>  > There

>  > >aren't many about !!!!!<<

>  > >

>  > >I kind of like Fraggle's comment about the pheremones - we need a

>  > radar.  I

>  > >think I'm about to give up myself - Try being 40, very set in your

>  > ways,

>  > >living in a house with 3 VERY large psychotic dogs, 3 old domineering

>  > >kitties, going to law school (so person must have something of a mind -

>  > >can't get by on body alone - LOL), but being a die-hard Harley biker

>  > (so

>  > >person must also be somewhat of a hellion and tattoos and long hair are

>  > >acceptable just have to be able to change out of that black harley

>  > t-shirt

>  > >every now and then for " appearances " at lawyer functions - LOL), being

>  > >strict vegan, and being extremely involved in animal rights work all

>  > other

>  > >non-working hours.  Not many men out there fall into that category -

>  > >especially in Pittsburgh, PA - gads I gotta move!!  Thought I found one

>  > last

>  > >winter but I was so thrilled to find a male " version of me " that I

>  > scared

>  > >him off!!! LOL!!!  Still don't quite know how I did it because anyone

>  > that

>  > >dates me gets to squeeze in about a total of 4 unused hours a week -

>  > you

>  > >would think that should solve the fear of committment - hahahaha!!!

>  > >

>  > >

>  > >

>  > >

>  > >To send an email to -

>  > >

>  > >

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ah, as in night soil

nope..not really..

we have more rather rude terms fer it here...

fraggle

 

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

 

>Hi Fraggle

>

>> a garden with soil in it?

>

>I think Viv was using " soil " to mean excrement. I guess the word's not used

>that way in America?

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>

>---

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>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

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wow..

sounds weird..sorta kewl, and sorta scary all at the same time

waiting 3 yrs to move sounds horrid!!!

it sux here that rents are so dang high, but, to have to wait 3 yrs when yer

roof leaks er wotever...

*shudders*

fraggle

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

 

>Hi Fraggle

>

>> the council was able to give you a flat?

>> please to explain to the ignorant yank..wot the heck does that mean?

>> council? all sounds weirdly british and soviet all at the same time

>

>LOL! In the UK, local authorities ( " the council " ) own a certain amount of

>housing which they let out. The rent is generally cheaper than privately

>owned houses. The whole scheme worked very nicely until a certain Prime

>Minister thought that it would be a good idea to sell off the whole lot.

>Unfortunately there's not much left now, and something like a 3 year waiting

>list!

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

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>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

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Hi Fraggle

 

> ok..if you have problems with cats in yer garden, try sprinkling cayenne

pepper on the ground.,,...this may help discourage

> kittie

 

We've tried pretty much everything! We even got one of those machines which

gives off a high pitched noise when anything moves near it - supposed to

scare cats away. The cats loved it, and the whistling wound me up!!!!

 

 

> and, as a last resort..they sell movement squirters..you hook yer hose up

to this sprayer, and when something comes into its

> field of vision

> *brrrrrwwwap!*

> it sprays water at it...kitties would learn very quickly..as would crows

and nosey neighbors

 

Sounds interesting. If for nothing else than getting the neighbours!! :-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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Hi Fraggle

 

> ah, as in night soil

 

Ummm - if you say so *trying hard to look knowledgable*

 

> nope..not really..

> we have more rather rude terms fer it here...

 

Aha - we Brits do tend to be a bit more subtle! ;-)

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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Hi Fraggle

 

> sounds weird..sorta kewl, and sorta scary all at the same time

> waiting 3 yrs to move sounds horrid!!!

> it sux here that rents are so dang high, but, to have to wait 3 yrs when

yer roof leaks er wotever...

 

Yeah - I know what you mean. And house prices are so high in the UK, so if

you don't already own a house, and aren't a director of ICI, you can't

afford to buy. The real irony of the whole thing is that rents are generally

higher than mortgage re-payments, but its impossible to find a bank that

will give you enough of a mortgage to buy unless you have a huge salary.

 

The main problem in the UK is the huge wealth-gap. Basically, loads of

people now own several properties and rent them out to people who can't get

mortgages - the upshot of it is that in places where people want to live,

most of the properties have been bought by people who want to make money out

of them and charge exorbitant rents - and so, the values of the properties

in those areas are even higher.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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Peter,

 

Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water and lovin' whenever he wants it.

 

I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though :(

 

--jojo

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

Hi Lesley

 

> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep.

 

Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

 

I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

 

People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side.

 

It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

 

BB

Peter

 

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well

i wish you luck

 

and..i would have gone to yer site and bought stuff, but, um..the dog ate my

computer, and there is that silly lack of money thing..i knew i should have

loaned myself that $100,000 and written off all my debts as profits...

cheers

fraggle

 

" jojo " <tofujojo wrote:

 

>My online clothing store isn't doing *anything* despite my efforts.  I have

>been working a horrendous, sh*t job for the past few months to pay bills and

>have come to the realization that I need to get my ass to the city.  So I'm

>currently interviewing for fashion-related positions in NYC and the

>surrounding areas.  The interviews went well, but I won't know HOW well

>until next week.

>

>Thanks for the subtle plug, fraggle ;)

>

>Oh!  And I just found out 2 days ago that my site is down and have been

>working all morning at trying to get it back up...not so's anyone would

>notice it was missing (sniffle, sniffle)

>

>-- jojo

>

>

>-

><EBbrewpunx

>

>Thursday, July 11, 2002 8:24 AM

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>> wot job?

>> did you get it?

>> wot about yer online clothing shop? is it doing ok?

>> *subtle plug fer ya*

>> fraggle

>>

>> " jojo " <tofujojo wrote:

>>

>> >Sorry, Lesley! -- I was interviewing for a job yesterday and I am still

>recovering...

>> >

>> >Sleepy and out of it...

>> >jojo

>> > -

>> > Lesley Dove

>> >

>> > Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:51 AM

>> > RE: Digest Number 395

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > It wasn't me, it was Muffy who is getting a rescued dog. She seems to

>have sorted it out OK.

>> > I was the one who had to rehome my kitten some years ago, I haven't had

>any animals since. The whole issue has been too painful and besides we have

>three kids and we are not living in a very big place so we need somewhere

>bigger before we would consider having a rescued animal.

>> >

>> > Lesley

>> >

>> >

>> > jojo [tofujojo]

>> > 11 July 2002 17:25

>> >

>> > Re: Digest Number 395

>> >

>> >

>> > Peter,

>> >

>> > Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife

>rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for

>care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some

>undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a

>danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an

>outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And

>personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than

>outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little

>unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes

>following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water

>and lovin' whenever he wants it.

>> >

>> > I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they

>like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious

>beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an

>apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing

>home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is

>house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is

>difficult to do with rescues, though :(

>> >

>> > --jojo

>> > -

>> > Peter

>> >

>> > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM

>> > Re: Digest Number 395

>> >

>> >

>> > Hi Lesley

>> >

>> > > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet

>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

>> > > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put

>to sleep.

>> >

>> > Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In

>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our

>garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to

>do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds

>and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars

>and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

>> >

>> > I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

>make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

>birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly

>having to clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living

>in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from

>all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that

>children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that

>they be exposed to cat sh*t.

>> >

>> > People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats

>are nothing but a pain in the back side.

>> >

>> > It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you

>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

>> >

>> > BB

>> > Peter

>> >

>> >

>> > ---

>> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>> > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>> >

>> > To send an email to -

>> >

>> >

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>>What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though :(<<

 

Sorry Lesley -- I meant Muffy... Long night last night, sorry...

 

-- jojo

 

-

jojo

Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:24 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

Peter,

 

Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water and lovin' whenever he wants it.

 

I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though :(

 

--jojo

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

Hi Lesley

 

> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep.

 

Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

 

I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

 

People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side.

 

It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

 

BB

Peter

 

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Sorry, Lesley! -- I was interviewing for a job yesterday and I am still recovering...

 

Sleepy and out of it...

jojo

 

-

Lesley Dove

Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:51 AM

RE: Digest Number 395

 

 

It wasn't me, it was Muffy who is getting a rescued dog. She seems to have sorted it out OK.

I was the one who had to rehome my kitten some years ago, I haven't had any animals since. The whole issue has been too painful and besides we have three kids and we are not living in a very big place so we need somewhere bigger before we would consider having a rescued animal.

 

Lesley

 

 

jojo [tofujojo]11 July 2002 17:25 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Peter,

 

Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water and lovin' whenever he wants it.

 

I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though :(

 

--jojo

 

-

Peter

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

Hi Lesley

 

> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep.

 

Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

 

I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

 

People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side.

 

It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

 

BB

Peter

 

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soil as opposed to grass (the green kind you don't smoke) - if the soil is bare you can't immediately see where an animal has messed in it & covered it up. whereas it would be obvious on a lawn.

or don't you have lawns/grass over there?

 

viv

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:06 PM Subject: RE: Digest Number 395a garden with soil in it?as opposed to a garden with ...wot?? is hydroponics that popular in the UK? the lessening of pot laws in britain is all over the news here, so, that makes sense...ya big potheads:)fraggle"Viv" <vc27 wrote:>There are 2 parasites that are particularly dangerous: toxocara, more common>in dogs than cats and toxoplasma, more common in cats than dogs. Both can>cause blindness but toxoplasma is particularly dangerous to pregnant women.>You can look this all up on the web but if anyone wants more info feel free>to e me off-list.>>And Graham, you be particularly careful with your kids in the garden. Which,>of course, goes for anyone with a garden with soil in it & kids...>>Viv>

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lawns are a very evil and indeible american tradition i'm afraid....

extended carpets is all they be

chock full of the latest pesticide and fertilizer...

fraggle

 

" Viv " <vc27 wrote:

 

>soil as opposed to grass (the green kind you don't smoke) - if the soil is

>bare you can't immediately see where an animal has messed in it & covered it

>up. whereas it would be obvious on a lawn.

>or don't you have lawns/grass over there?

>

>viv

>

>  

>  EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]

>  Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:06 PM

>  

>  RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>  a garden with soil in it?

>  as opposed to a garden with ...wot?? is hydroponics that popular in the

>UK?

>  the lessening of pot laws in britain is all over the news here, so, that

>makes sense...ya big potheads

>  :)

>  fraggle

>

>

>   " Viv " <vc27 wrote:

>

>  >There are 2 parasites that are particularly dangerous: toxocara, more

>common

>  >in dogs than cats and toxoplasma, more common in cats than dogs. Both can

>  >cause blindness  but toxoplasma is particularly dangerous to pregnant

>women.

>  >You can look this all up on the web but if anyone wants more info feel

>free

>  >to e me off-list.

>  >

>  >And Graham, you be particularly careful with your kids in the garden.

>Which,

>  >of course, goes for anyone with a garden with soil in it & kids...

>  >

>  >Viv

>  >

>

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>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release 01/07/02

>

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Maybe he mistook it for catnip and was voicing his displeasure... ;)

 

-jojo

-

" Peter " <Snowbow

 

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

>

> > Hah! tell that to the cats that shite in my garden all the flipping

> > time!!! it's practically impossible for the kids to play in the

> > garden at the moment and also compromises our ability to grow as

> > much food as we would like to as well...

>

> When I last went to pick some parsley it was under a pile of cat poo.

There

> is absolutely no way I could use that plant after seeing it like that.

>

> Jo

>

>

> ---

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My online clothing store isn't doing *anything* despite my efforts. I have

been working a horrendous, sh*t job for the past few months to pay bills and

have come to the realization that I need to get my ass to the city. So I'm

currently interviewing for fashion-related positions in NYC and the

surrounding areas. The interviews went well, but I won't know HOW well

until next week.

 

Thanks for the subtle plug, fraggle ;)

 

Oh! And I just found out 2 days ago that my site is down and have been

working all morning at trying to get it back up...not so's anyone would

notice it was missing (sniffle, sniffle)

 

-- jojo

 

 

-

<EBbrewpunx

 

Thursday, July 11, 2002 8:24 AM

Re: Digest Number 395

 

 

> wot job?

> did you get it?

> wot about yer online clothing shop? is it doing ok?

> *subtle plug fer ya*

> fraggle

>

> " jojo " <tofujojo wrote:

>

> >Sorry, Lesley! -- I was interviewing for a job yesterday and I am still

recovering...

> >

> >Sleepy and out of it...

> >jojo

> > -

> > Lesley Dove

> >

> > Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:51 AM

> > RE: Digest Number 395

> >

> >

> >

> > It wasn't me, it was Muffy who is getting a rescued dog. She seems to

have sorted it out OK.

> > I was the one who had to rehome my kitten some years ago, I haven't had

any animals since. The whole issue has been too painful and besides we have

three kids and we are not living in a very big place so we need somewhere

bigger before we would consider having a rescued animal.

> >

> > Lesley

> >

> >

> > jojo [tofujojo]

> > 11 July 2002 17:25

> >

> > Re: Digest Number 395

> >

> >

> > Peter,

> >

> > Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife

rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for

care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some

undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a

danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an

outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And

personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than

outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little

unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes

following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water

and lovin' whenever he wants it.

> >

> > I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they

like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious

beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an

apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing

home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is

house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is

difficult to do with rescues, though :(

> >

> > --jojo

> > -

> > Peter

> >

> > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM

> > Re: Digest Number 395

> >

> >

> > Hi Lesley

> >

> > > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet

owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> > > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put

to sleep.

> >

> > Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In

our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our

garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to

do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds

and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars

and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

> >

> > I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly

having to clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living

in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from

all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that

children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that

they be exposed to cat sh*t.

> >

> > People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats

are nothing but a pain in the back side.

> >

> > It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you

effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

> >

> > BB

> > Peter

> >

> >

> > ---

> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

> >

> > To send an email to -

> >

> >

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night soil...the poo you use to put in one of them lil urns at nite and then

dump out in the morn...

 

 

" Peter " <Snowbow wrote:

 

>Hi Fraggle

>

>> ah, as in night soil

>

>Ummm - if you say so *trying hard to look knowledgable*

>

>> nope..not really..

>> we have more rather rude terms fer it here...

>

>Aha - we Brits do tend to be a bit more subtle! ;-)

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

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Now that's the truth! Some cats seem to have the hunting instinct, but not all. I've had both. My cat right now (an adopted stray) would probably hunt if she could get outside. I guess it's just personality type.

 

- Muffy

 

 

-

Janey

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:15 PM

Re: Digest Number 395

I have rescued many cats over the years. I currently own 3 gorgeous cats.I wouldn't be without them! :-)p.s. Its a myth that all cats kill birds and small mammals. Some cats(like mine!) are just too lazy and uninterested. Its true!JaneyxJo wrote:-Well put! I can quite understand people loving their animal> companions/pets, but it always seems to me that when someone takes in a> 'rescue' cat - they are choosing to save that life at the expense of 40(?)> other lives - the lives of birds and small mammals that the cat will take.To send an email to -

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I read somewhere that the noise includes higher tones that the cat can hear well, and it is very annoying to them. I don't know for sure. It might be more unpleasant for the cat being scolded by its owner every time it chased birds than simply wearing a bell!

 

- Muffy

 

-

Lesley Dove

Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:28 PM

RE: Digest Number 395

 

 

a bell on the collar is a good idea though and something I would consider seriously if I had a cat.

 

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>I think Viv was using " soil " to mean excrement. I guess the word's not used

>that way in America?

 

Well it's certainly not used that way in my part of the UK neither!

 

Michael

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We can't always have what we want . I have humans making noises swearing /being drunk and fighting and I wish I didn't have to clean up their litter that is thrown over into my garden .

 

And these objects are surposed to be intelligent creatures !!!. Give me cats any day . Where is all this cleaning up ? Cats bury it don't they . The humans don'y bury their litter . And broken bottles are dangerous too.

 

What diseases does one get from cat waste ,? This is a new one on me . All the diseases I have ever got were from people .. Dangerous things these people .. Ban them I say .

 

I've never got a pain in the backside from cats What are you doing with them ????? Now people ........?

 

 

Peter [snowbow] 10 July 2002 17:12 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

Hi Lesley

 

> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

> landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep.

 

Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

 

I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

 

People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side.

 

It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

 

BB

Peter

 

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i think most cats would look at you with that annoyed look they get, and chalk

the experience up to uptight upright naked apes...

and go about their business later

fraggle

 

 

" James & Muffy Caldwell " <jmc62701 wrote:

 

>    I read somewhere that the noise includes higher tones that the cat can hear

well, and it is very annoying to them.  I don't know for sure.  It might be more

unpleasant for the cat being scolded by its owner every time it chased birds

than simply wearing a bell!

>

> - Muffy

>  -

>  Lesley Dove

>  

>  Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:28 PM

>  RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>

>   a bell on the collar is a good idea though and something I would consider

seriously if I had a cat.

>

>

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Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend that

to all animals .

I try to keep my son in as well ,. he can't come to harm in the house

and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids

but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a

prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best

for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You

can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the

world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe

...Mother knows best

 

Psycho

 

 

Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty]

10 July 2002 18:02

Peter ;

RE: Digest Number 395

 

 

H

 

---

 

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

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Toxoplasmosis

giardia

cryptosporidium (diarrhea in people),

cat scratch disease (cat scratch fever)

ringworm

>What diseases does one get from cat waste ,? This is a new one on me .

>All the diseases I have ever got were from people .. Dangerous things

>these people .. Ban them I say .

>

>I've never got a pain in the backside from cats  What are you doing with

>them ?????         Now people ........?

>

>Angie

>

>

>Peter [snowbow]

>10 July 2002 17:12

>

>Re: Digest Number 395

>

>

>Hi Lesley

>

>> Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet

>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many

>>  landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put

>to sleep.

>

>Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In

>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in

>our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever

>wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter

>numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb

>all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.

>

>I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would

>make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild

>birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly

>having to clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children

>living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty

>diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that

>you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you

>think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t.

>

>People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats

>are nothing but a pain in the back side.

>

>It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you

>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>

>---

>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (HYPERLINK

> " http://www.grisoft.com " http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

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oh dear bacchus

while traveling in england, must remember to never check into the wright

hotel....

 

 

" Angie Wright " <angiewright wrote:

 

>Yes I quite agree that cats should be kept indoors . I would extend that

>to all animals  .

>I try to keep my son in as well  ,. he can't come to harm in the house

>and he has 3/4 rooms to move around in . He can't mix with other kids

>but they carry diseases anyway . Some might say I'm keeping him a

>prisoner but I know best because .... I just do . I know what is best

>for him and my animals and I won't have anyone saying differently . You

>can all come and live with me too , and I'll keep you in safe from the

>world, and never let you out .....so you'll be safe

> ...Mother knows best

>

>Psycho

>

>

>Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty]

>10 July 2002 18:02

>Peter ;

>RE: Digest Number 395

>

>

>H

>

>---

>

>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

>Version: 6.0.370 / Virus Database: 205 - Release 05/06/2002

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

>

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My cats have never killed birds (as far as I know ). And my cats decide when they want to go out . If they are out at night They can't bother you ? and there is less traffic and no birds so night seems best to me , But as I said the cat's choose , I would not wish to dictate to them what they should do . Not many people dictate to me ....except my employers ! .

 

I see the cats poo in my garden , but I never see the poo . Don't be too crushed Lesley !!!! You are not talking rubbish

 

Its a criminal offense to drop litter also but are the streets clean ? No !

Cats are not considered by law to be the property of humans ,...the way a dog is , So a person could be fined if their dog pooed and they left it , not so with a cat

 

Make sure peter you tell us all what is responsible cat ownership is because obviously we are all in the wrong . and we haven't been listening to you.

 

I shall go and punish myself very severely because you are obviously right and the rest of us wrong ......Its not just that you are a cat hater is it ??? I'm a human hater and the plans I have for them .....I'll share them with you sometime

 

Peter [snowbow] 10 July 2002 18:08 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395

 

Hi Lesley

 

> I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love cats and value their companionship and would be quite

> offended by what you are saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all exterminated?

 

I would suggest having a large number of them neutered, so that they stop producing quite so many offspring - that would resolve the majority of the problem in around a decade. Most of the people I know who own cats throw them out of the house every night even in the depths of winter - not really what I'd classify as "valuing" them. I would suggest that there should be licenses issued for keeping cats which ensure that the owners take responsibility for the trouble caused by their pets - that way owners might ensure that they aren't a nuisance to others.

 

> Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge them the way you can human beings who should know

> better.

 

Cats have already been taken out of nature. Doesn't seem too much to ask owners to put bells on their collars - that way they wouldn't be able to kill birds.

 

> My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats mostly bury their poos

 

I'm sorry, Lesley, you are talking rubbish here.

 

> it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't clear it up are the ones to blame.

 

And it is a criminal offense to allow your *dog* to litter in a public place without clearing it up.

 

> Responsible pet owners should not be

> made to suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.

 

Exactly - the problem is, I've yet to meet a responsible cat owner (and that includes the vegans I know who own them) - there might be one or two, but they are in a very small minority!

 

BB

Peter

 

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Did Lesley advocate them running amok ???? I must have missed that .

I must go and exterminate all the cats in the shelter down the road before some humans decide to adopt them and over populate the place

 

 

EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] 10 July 2002 18:08 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395ah gawd..its good to talk to you lesley..it certainly is interestingso, responsible pet owners shouldn't have to suffer fer irresponsible ones?i guess that doesn't matter a lick if they do drugs then huh? :)obviously we should all be pissin in cups and have random drug tests, but its ok if someone has 12 cats eating the neighborhood song birds...i can't speak fer peter, but i don't think he was advocating having them exterminated..i think he was advocating having folks be RESPONSIBLE pet owners..ewww..i said owneranyways..it maybe natural fer cats to eat birds, but it certainly is not natural fer there to be 20 cats per block, when there is one cat per 10 miles in the wild...we brought this problem onto the world, we have to take responsibility fer itdon't get me wrong, i luv my cat to death, and i luv dogs, weasels, ferrets, toads, ardvaarks, wot have you..but, if we are going to bring animal companions along, we have as much responsibility to make sure they don't go runnin amuk as we do trying to keep kids from shootin smack, wouldn't you say?fraggle"Lesley Dove" <Lesley wrote:>>I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love cats>and value their companionship and would be quite offended by what you are>saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all exterminated?>I don't like the fact that they are carnivores but if I personally had a cat>now I would use Vegecat and feed it on vegan food (I know not all vegan cat>owners do this though).>Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge them>the way you can human beings who should know better.>>My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats mostly>bury their poos, it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't clear>it up are the ones to blame. Responsible pet owners should not be made to>suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few.>>Lesley>> > Peter [snowbow]> 10 July 2002 17:12> > Re: Digest Number 395>>> Hi Lesley>> > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet>owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many> > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to>sleep.>> Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In>our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our>garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to>do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds>and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars>and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance.>> I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make>our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It>might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to>clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our>street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the>excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children>should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be>exposed to cat sh*t.>> People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are>nothing but a pain in the back side.>> It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you>effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you.>> BB> Peter>>> ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02>> To send an email to - >>

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