Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Hi Lesley While I do agree with your point on legality - I find it a nuisance that neighbours keep cats, whereas if they smoke pot in their living rooms, it causes me no nuisance whatsoever. Jo - Lesley Dove Tuesday, July 09, 2002 6:17 PM RE: Digest Number 395 Actually I would not personally have so much of a problem with people doing that, unless kids were around (I would not personally want to be near it either), but I did specifically say that oppressive rules were unreasonable if the person wanted to do something legal as well as not harming others, so you can't really throw the pot question at me. It's illegal, and you have every right to campaign for it to be legalised but until it is legal, then landlords really do have very good reason to ban it or they might be held liable for allowing it! With any kind of smoking you have to take into account the rights of non-smokers to clean air anyway. Keeping companion animals is perfectly legal on the other hand. Lesley EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]09 July 2002 17:55 Subject: RE: Digest Number 395I think a landlord's right to make>oppressive rules like that should be severely curtailed! If you live>somewhere you should have the right to choose how to live, if so long as you>are acting legally not harming anyone. It's basic civil liberties.sorta like if you smoke pot in yer house leslie??*big dumb smile*sorry..i just couldn't resistno argument!!!*holds up paws to ward off blows*fraggleTo send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Hi Fraggle Well put! I can quite understand people loving their animal companions/pets, but it always seems to me that when someone takes in a 'rescue' cat - they are choosing to save that life at the expense of 40(?) other lives - the lives of birds and small mammals that the cat will take. What I cannot understand is that people who rescue cats cannot admit that they are choosing one life over others, because it suits them, not for purely altruistic reasons. Jo - <EBbrewpunx Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:07 PM RE: Digest Number 395 > > ah gawd..its good to talk to you lesley..it certainly is interesting > so, responsible pet owners shouldn't have to suffer fer irresponsible ones? > i guess that doesn't matter a lick if they do drugs then huh? > > obviously we should all be pissin in cups and have random drug tests, but its ok if someone has 12 cats eating the neighborhood song birds... > > i can't speak fer peter, but i don't think he was advocating having them exterminated..i think he was advocating having folks be RESPONSIBLE pet owners..ewww..i said owner > anyways..it maybe natural fer cats to eat birds, but it certainly is not natural fer there to be 20 cats per block, when there is one cat per 10 miles in the wild... > we brought this problem onto the world, we have to take responsibility fer it > don't get me wrong, i luv my cat to death, and i luv dogs, weasels, ferrets, toads, ardvaarks, wot have you..but, if we are going to bring animal companions along, we have as much responsibility to make sure they don't go runnin amuk as we do trying to keep kids from shootin smack, wouldn't you say? > fraggle > > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: > > > > >I'm very surprised at your attitude and I know a lot of vegans who love cats > >and value their companionship and would be quite offended by what you are > >saying. What do you want to happen to the cats? Have them all exterminated? > >I don't like the fact that they are carnivores but if I personally had a cat > >now I would use Vegecat and feed it on vegan food (I know not all vegan cat > >owners do this though). > >Killing small birds and mammals is natural for cats, you can't judge them > >the way you can human beings who should know better. > > > >My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats mostly > >bury their poos, it's dogs that just leave it and the owners who don't clear > >it up are the ones to blame. Responsible pet owners should not be made to > >suffer for the behaviour of the irresponsible few. > > > >Lesley > > > > > > Peter [snowbow] > > 10 July 2002 17:12 > > > > Re: Digest Number 395 > > > > > > Hi Lesley > > > > > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet > >owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > > > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to > >sleep. > > > > Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In > >our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our > >garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to > >do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds > >and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars > >and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. > > > > I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make > >our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It > >might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to > >clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our > >street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the > >excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children > >should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be > >exposed to cat sh*t. > > > > People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are > >nothing but a pain in the back side. > > > > It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you > >effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. > > > > BB > > Peter > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 > My kids don't play in cat dirt so they should be pretty safe, cats mostly > bury their poos, Hah! tell that to the cats that shite in my garden all the flipping time!!! it's practically impossible for the kids to play in the garden at the moment and also compromises our ability to grow as much food as we would like to as well... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Lesley >I think that is much worse than a cat killing a few birds that >have had a natural free life, I doubt the birds think that, but I agree with your point about feeding cats meat. It seems to me though, that even though you may feed a cat to bursting, it still kills little birds for fun. The problem really is present because of the unnaturally high number of cats in the country. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Lesley >My mum had cats and I saw them poo and kick soil over it >to bury it afterwards, they are much cleaner with their >poos than dogs, That is part of the problem. You can see a dog's poo, but when you are weeding or planting in your garden you suddenly get a handful of cat pooh, under your nails and everywhere - yuk! Cat's don't always bury their poo. Outside our front door and the sitting room window there have been great piles of it, rotting and stinking. Once I got so annoyed that I got my neighbour to come and clean it up. It is terrible having to remove it all the time. Incidentally, the little worms (can't remember the name of them or the disease they cause) are more prevalent in cats poo than dogs poo, and it can cause blindness, particularly in children. Jo ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 > Hah! tell that to the cats that shite in my garden all the flipping > time!!! it's practically impossible for the kids to play in the > garden at the moment and also compromises our ability to grow as > much food as we would like to as well... When I last went to pick some parsley it was under a pile of cat poo. There is absolutely no way I could use that plant after seeing it like that. Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 I own three cats. :-) Janey x Jo wrote:- I find it a nuisance that neighbours keep cats, whereas if they smoke pot in their living rooms, it causes me no nuisance whatsoever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 I have rescued many cats over the years. I currently own 3 gorgeous cats. I wouldn't be without them! :-) p.s. Its a myth that all cats kill birds and small mammals. Some cats (like mine!) are just too lazy and uninterested. Its true! Janey x Jo wrote:- Well put! I can quite understand people loving their animal > companions/pets, but it always seems to me that when someone takes in a > 'rescue' cat - they are choosing to save that life at the expense of 40(?) > other lives - the lives of birds and small mammals that the cat will take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Jo, you talk about being a vegan as if it's a very casual thing for people. For most people it's far from casual. It's not just a matter of him liking football and her liking soap operas. It's very much more encompassing than that. It's about murdering innocent animals for food when it is totally unnecessary. I would find it impossible to love someone who didn't understand this. Which begs the question, what then is love. Is it just attraction? Shouldn't it have something to do with strongly held beliefs and shared values? Would you love a Nazi hoping that one day he'll stop exterminating Jews? Brad - Heartwork Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:41 PM Re: Digest Number 395 HannahI think what you say is very true. It is possible to find a lot to like orlove in someone who does not do all the things you do, and there is alwaysthe chance that they may change their habits anyway.Jo> I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are great betweenus (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan meals and heseems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto). Still if henever changes, I love him just the same. I understand the want to shareyour life with another vegan, but from my experience I would have lost outon a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater. But then again, he's Baptistand I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.>> Oh, and all the kitty talk makes me so sad. For everyone who has sickkitties, good luck to both of you. I am currently living w/o my kittiescause I had to move into a place that wouldn't allow them. I miss them somuch, but my mom and dad are taking care of them. I am doing everything Ican to move just to have them with me again.>> Hannah>> > EBbrewpunx > 7/9/02 11:15 AM> Re: Digest Number 395>> ok> this is gonna sound hella crappy> but..ummm> there are tons of vegans out there kids!!! or folks who are willing to> try new things, er wotever...> i know you have yer mate out there, just a-waitin' fer ya!> maybe i'm just lucky in that the last several relationships either> started with a vegan er they quickly went vegan> sadly, they probably aren't anymore..just to spite me, and they probably> stab kitties in the toes as well..just to be evil!!>> so..pam is gonna be a lawyer, is vegan likes dogs and cats, and rides a> bike.....> *bats eyelashes*>> if only i had an open realtionship again....or was single...> hahahahhahaahahah> tell me you like beer and i'm yers> ahahahahah> cheers> fraggle>>> "Pgh Pam" <pghpam wrote:>> >>>You are very lucky Jo and I envy you both. I wish I could find a> >compatible male friend/lover. but I'd want them to be vegan as well .> There> >aren't many about !!!!!<<> >> >I kind of like Fraggle's comment about the pheremones - we need a> radar. I> >think I'm about to give up myself - Try being 40, very set in your> ways,> >living in a house with 3 VERY large psychotic dogs, 3 old domineering> >kitties, going to law school (so person must have something of a mind -> >can't get by on body alone - LOL), but being a die-hard Harley biker> (so> >person must also be somewhat of a hellion and tattoos and long hair are> >acceptable just have to be able to change out of that black harley> t-shirt> >every now and then for "appearances" at lawyer functions - LOL), being> >strict vegan, and being extremely involved in animal rights work all> other> >non-working hours. Not many men out there fall into that category -> >especially in Pittsburgh, PA - gads I gotta move!! Thought I found one> last> >winter but I was so thrilled to find a male "version of me" that I> scared> >him off!!! LOL!!! Still don't quite know how I did it because anyone> that> >dates me gets to squeeze in about a total of 4 unused hours a week -> you> >would think that should solve the fear of committment - hahahaha!!!> >> >> >> >> >To send an email to - > >> > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Jo, you talk about being a vegan as if it's a very casual thing for people. For most people it's far from casual. It's not just a matter of him liking football and her liking soap operas. It's very much more encompassing than that. It's about murdering innocent animals for food when it is totally unnecessary. I would find it impossible to love someone who didn't understand this. Which begs the question, what then is love. Is it just attraction? Shouldn't it have something to do with strongly held beliefs and shared values? Would you love a Nazi hoping that one day he'll stop exterminating Jews? Brad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 10, 2002 Hi Peter, there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. Werner. ---- Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 There are 2 parasites that are particularly dangerous: toxocara, more common in dogs than cats and toxoplasma, more common in cats than dogs. Both can cause blindness but toxoplasma is particularly dangerous to pregnant women. You can look this all up on the web but if anyone wants more info feel free to e me off-list. And Graham, you be particularly careful with your kids in the garden. Which, of course, goes for anyone with a garden with soil in it & kids... Viv Heartwork [Heartwork]Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:33 PM Subject: Re: Digest Number 395 Incidentally, the little worms (can't remember the name of them or the disease they cause) are more prevalent in cats poo than dogs poo, and it can cause blindness, particularly in children. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 I own three cats and my neighbours love them! I often find neighbours playing with my cats on my driveway and one neighbour even bought me some cat food once! My neighbours seem to think that my three cats are an addition to our road! P.S. I AM REPLYING TO PETER'S MESSAGE BUT I CAN'T SNIP WERNER'S. ARGH! - Werner Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:23 PM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Peter, there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. Werner. ---- Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 Hi Werner, Why can't your two cats go out? Isn't that cruel? Cats need fresh air to breath and grass to roll around on. Janey x - Werner Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:23 PM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Peter, there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. Werner. ---- Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 Hi Janey, quite simple. We used to let our cats out and only to find them dead by morning ... run over by a car. After about 10 cats lost, and most very lovable, we decided to leave them indoors. They can enjoy the outdoors by sitting in the open windows of our house. And the wife takes them out occasionally on a leash. Werner ... tired of dead pets. ---- Thursday, July 11, 2002 1:35:31 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Werner, Why can't your two cats go out? Isn't that cruel? Cats need fresh air to breath and grass to roll around on. Janey x - Werner Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:23 PM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Peter, there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. Werner. ---- Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 Trouble is these rules discriminate against poor and vulnerable people who are not always the irresponsible ones, whereas the richer home-owners can make their own choices about pet keeping, even if they are irresponsible and should really not be having animals! I'm all in favour of responsible pet-keeping rules to apply across the board to apply to rich and poor people. The current situation with no pets rules in lots of rented places both the UK and the US makes me so angry and frustrated because I would have taken good care of Sally and loved her, and we can see still how others on this list are suffering so many years after my experience of this which threw me into depression. I even ended up marrying my first husband (despite severe reservations about our relationship) largely to get away from that awful landlady, because the council was able to give us a flat together. It's an awful reason to enter a marriage and this is the first time I ever admitted it, but people do desperate things when you feel there is no better way out of a miserable situation! Lesley Heartwork [Heartwork]10 July 2002 21:47 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley I do think it's sad for you that you had to rehouse your pet, but do understand the need for some of these rules. We are overrun with neighbours cats, and they kill so many wild birds (who currently need all the help they can get to stop the terrible decline in numbers) and small mammals in our garden. They are also very messy, using the borders just outside our front door, and the back sitting room window, as toilets. I think the problem is that there are 8 million cats in this country, and the balance is way out of kilter. Jo I had to rehome a rescued foundling kitten I had a few years ago, due to housing rules, these rules stink and I think a landlord's right to make oppressive rules like that should be severely curtailed! If you live somewhere you should have the right to choose how to live, if so long as you are acting legally not harming anyone. It's basic civil liberties. Hope you get your kitties back soon and that your landlord can't let the place after you go. I think it would serve him/her right for forcing you to part from your animal friends! I couldn't personally be in love with a meat-eater, but if you're happy that's good and I hope he does go veggie. Lesley Trusty, Hannah [hannah.trusty]09 July 2002 16:54EBbrewpunx; Subject: RE: Digest Number 395I just have to say.....I married a meat-eater and things are great between us (granted I don't cook meat and he seems to like my vegan meals and he seems to be thinking about becoming a vegetarian-ovo,lacto). Still if he never changes, I love him just the same. I understand the want to share your life with another vegan, but from my experience I would have lost out on a lot if I had refused to see a meat eater. But then again, he's Baptist and I'm Wiccan so I guess we just like being different.Oh, and all the kitty talk makes me so sad. For everyone who has sick kitties, good luck to both of you. I am currently living w/o my kitties cause I had to move into a place that wouldn't allow them. I miss them so much, but my mom and dad are taking care of them. I am doing everything I can to move just to have them with me again.Hannah EBbrewpunxTo: Sent: 7/9/02 11:15 AMRe: Digest Number 395okthis is gonna sound hella crappybut..ummmthere are tons of vegans out there kids!!! or folks who are willing totry new things, er wotever...i know you have yer mate out there, just a-waitin' fer ya!maybe i'm just lucky in that the last several relationships eitherstarted with a vegan er they quickly went vegansadly, they probably aren't anymore..just to spite me, and they probablystab kitties in the toes as well..just to be evil!!so..pam is gonna be a lawyer, is vegan likes dogs and cats, and rides abike.....*bats eyelashes*if only i had an open realtionship again....or was single...hahahahhahaahahahtell me you like beer and i'm yersahahahahahcheersfraggle"Pgh Pam" <pghpam wrote:>>>You are very lucky Jo and I envy you both. I wish I could find a>compatible male friend/lover. but I'd want them to be vegan as well .There>aren't many about !!!!!<<>>I kind of like Fraggle's comment about the pheremones - we need aradar. I>think I'm about to give up myself - Try being 40, very set in yourways,>living in a house with 3 VERY large psychotic dogs, 3 old domineering>kitties, going to law school (so person must have something of a mind ->can't get by on body alone - LOL), but being a die-hard Harley biker(so>person must also be somewhat of a hellion and tattoos and long hair are>acceptable just have to be able to change out of that black harleyt-shirt>every now and then for "appearances" at lawyer functions - LOL), being>strict vegan, and being extremely involved in animal rights work allother>non-working hours. Not many men out there fall into that category ->especially in Pittsburgh, PA - gads I gotta move!! Thought I found onelast>winter but I was so thrilled to find a male "version of me" that Iscared>him off!!! LOL!!! Still don't quite know how I did it because anyonethat>dates me gets to squeeze in about a total of 4 unused hours a week -you>would think that should solve the fear of committment - hahahaha!!!>>>>>To send an email to - >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 For most locations there is nothing but trouble outside for kitty. Cars to run kitty over, anti-freeze leaked from cars to poison, kitty, dogs to kill kitty, other cats to fight with kitty and give kitty diseases, cruel people to torture kitty for fun etc. Cats can be very happy living indoors if they have toys, a loving person, or other cats, and a place to lay in the afternoon sun. - Janey Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:35 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Werner, Why can't your two cats go out? Isn't that cruel? Cats need fresh air to breath and grass to roll around on. Janey x - Werner Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:23 PM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Peter, there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. Werner. ---- Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 It wasn't me, it was Muffy who is getting a rescued dog. She seems to have sorted it out OK. I was the one who had to rehome my kitten some years ago, I haven't had any animals since. The whole issue has been too painful and besides we have three kids and we are not living in a very big place so we need somewhere bigger before we would consider having a rescued animal. Lesley jojo [tofujojo]11 July 2002 17:25 Subject: Re: Digest Number 395 Peter, Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water and lovin' whenever he wants it. I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though --jojo - Peter Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM Re: Digest Number 395 Hi Lesley > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's "companions". Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. It's all very well to talk of "rights", but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. BB Peter ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02To send an email to - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 a garden with soil in it? as opposed to a garden with ...wot?? is hydroponics that popular in the UK? the lessening of pot laws in britain is all over the news here, so, that makes sense...ya big potheads fraggle " Viv " <vc27 wrote: >There are 2 parasites that are particularly dangerous: toxocara, more common >in dogs than cats and toxoplasma, more common in cats than dogs. Both can >cause blindness but toxoplasma is particularly dangerous to pregnant women. >You can look this all up on the web but if anyone wants more info feel free >to e me off-list. > >And Graham, you be particularly careful with your kids in the garden. Which, >of course, goes for anyone with a garden with soil in it & kids... > >Viv > > > Heartwork [Heartwork] > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:33 PM > > Re: Digest Number 395 > > > > Incidentally, the little worms (can't remember the name of them or the >disease they cause) are more prevalent in cats poo than dogs poo, and it can >cause blindness, particularly in children. > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.373 / Virus Database: 208 - Release 01/07/02 > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 it is dangerous to let cats wander free.. they can get hit by cars, catch diseases, eat something they shouldn't, have a dog catch em, a hawk my beat the crap out of em, they will stalk birds, etc my roomie let her cat out..and it lost an eye....i think it misjudged our rock wall and hit the barbwire... ouch! fraggle " Janey " <janey wrote: >Hi Werner, > >Why can't your two cats go out? Isn't that cruel? Cats need fresh air to breath and grass to roll around on. > >Janey >x > > - > Werner > > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:23 PM > Re: Digest Number 395 > > > Hi Peter, > there are exception in every case. I own two cats and they never get past my front door. They are strictly in-door cats. The only place they sh*t is the litter box in our basement. And my two dogs are confined to our back yard and only one third of it. The rest is for our grandchildren to play in. > Werner. > > ---- > > > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 11:24:37 AM > > Re: Digest Number 395 > > Hi Lesley > > > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. > > Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. > > I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. > > People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. > > It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 sorry you lost me here the council was able to give you a flat? please to explain to the ignorant yank..wot the heck does that mean? council? all sounds weirdly british and soviet all at the same time cheers fraggle (despite >severe reservations about our relationship) largely to get away from that >awful landlady, because the council was able to give us a flat together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 Hi Fraggle > a garden with soil in it? I think Viv was using " soil " to mean excrement. I guess the word's not used that way in America? BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 Hi Fraggle > the council was able to give you a flat? > please to explain to the ignorant yank..wot the heck does that mean? > council? all sounds weirdly british and soviet all at the same time LOL! In the UK, local authorities ( " the council " ) own a certain amount of housing which they let out. The rent is generally cheaper than privately owned houses. The whole scheme worked very nicely until a certain Prime Minister thought that it would be a good idea to sell off the whole lot. Unfortunately there's not much left now, and something like a 3 year waiting list! BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 wot job? did you get it? wot about yer online clothing shop? is it doing ok? *subtle plug fer ya* fraggle " jojo " <tofujojo wrote: >Sorry, Lesley! -- I was interviewing for a job yesterday and I am still recovering... > >Sleepy and out of it... >jojo > - > Lesley Dove > > Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:51 AM > RE: Digest Number 395 > > > > It wasn't me, it was Muffy who is getting a rescued dog. She seems to have sorted it out OK. > I was the one who had to rehome my kitten some years ago, I haven't had any animals since. The whole issue has been too painful and besides we have three kids and we are not living in a very big place so we need somewhere bigger before we would consider having a rescued animal. > > Lesley > > > jojo [tofujojo] > 11 July 2002 17:25 > > Re: Digest Number 395 > > > Peter, > > Cats don't have to bet let outside, tho'. I volunteered with a wildlife rescue program who said that the vast majority of animals brought in for care had been attacked by cats. The rest were hit by cars or had some undetermined cause for injury (possibly cat attacks?). Cats are also a danger to themselves when allowed outside -- the average lifespan of an outdoor cat is significantly shorter than that of an indoor cat. And personally, I don't feel indoor cats have a lesser quality of life than outdoor cats. We have an indoor cat. He still manages to find poor, little unfortunates in the house to maim and kill on occasion. Mostly he just likes following the sunspots around the house to nap in and he has food and water and lovin' whenever he wants it. > > I would imagine that landlords can make up just about any rules they like with exception of refusing to house someone based on their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. My guess is someone's dog trashed an apartment recently. What kind of rescue dog were you planning on bringing home, Lesley? If you have a small or toy dog and can verify that it is house-trained and/or well behaved, you have a better argument. This is difficult to do with rescues, though > > --jojo > - > Peter > > Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:11 AM > Re: Digest Number 395 > > > Hi Lesley > > > Another reason vegans should support laws to protect responsible pet owners' housing rights is because this situation with so many > > landlords not allowing pets causes lots of healthy animals to be put to sleep. > > Time for someone on the other end of the situation to speak up here. In our street, we have one household which owns 6 cats. These cats sh*t in our garden regularly, meaning that we have to be very careful if we ever wish to do any sort of activity in our own back yard. They slaughter numerous birds and leave the dead bodies all over the place. They climb all over our cars and are, to be blunt, a bloddy nuisance. > > I personally would love to see cats banned from our street - it would make our lives more pleasant, and would prevent the deaths of many wild birds. It might also help to improve our morale if we weren't constantly having to clean up after our neighbour's " companions " . Any children living in our street would stand a very big danger of catching nasty diseases from all the excretions left behind by these cats. Stange that you state that children should not be exposed to smoke, but that you think it's OK that they be exposed to cat sh*t. > > People who own cats seem to forget that for everyone around them, cats are nothing but a pain in the back side. > > It's all very well to talk of " rights " , but you have to consider who you effect - y'know Lesley, a bit like having people smoking near you. > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > > To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 11, 2002 think of it as fertilizer fer next year.. *trying to help* ok..if you have problems with cats in yer garden, try sprinkling cayenne pepper on the ground.,,...this may help discourage kittie also, cocoa mulch is sold here, you maybe able to get it over on that side of the pond....it discourages kitties fer some reason, along with snails and slugs and, as a last resort..they sell movement squirters..you hook yer hose up to this sprayer, and when something comes into its field of vision *brrrrrwwwap!* it sprays water at it...kitties would learn very quickly..as would crows and nosey neighbors cheers fraggle " Peter " <Snowbow wrote: > >> Hah! tell that to the cats that shite in my garden all the flipping >> time!!! it's practically impossible for the kids to play in the >> garden at the moment and also compromises our ability to grow as >> much food as we would like to as well... > >When I last went to pick some parsley it was under a pile of cat poo. There >is absolutely no way I could use that plant after seeing it like that. > >Jo > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release 20/06/02 > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
